I have raised this before, Multi-bike Registration

[rocketman1]

It still riles me that if you have more than one bike , you are forced to buy multi registrations ( if you obey the law of course )
I can still only ride one bike at a time.
If the rider was the one who was licensed, then you would / could pay a fee commensurate with your riding ability / experience, abit like insurance companies administer things.
I do not think this would cost a whole heap to administer, ie all your details are on line in anycase.
I know that alot of those that have several bikes only register one at a time in anycase, and swap rego's around during the year. Govt are losing out here.
It is a bit of a hassle swapping rego's around and putting them on hold etc. There has to be a simpler way.
I realise that the Govt need to have control over tracking bikes, but that bike rego could be done for a minimal rego fee say $10 /bike


I know this gripe has been raised several times, I just want to keep it alive.
I have even written to my local MP and minister of transport, thats a waste of time. (Too hard basket)

If anyone has more influence on the Govt on this issue than I do I would like to hear sensible replies.

And for all those interested I do not want to break the law and ride without rego, nor do i want to ride a bike older that 40 years

[Akzle]

you are forced to buy multi registrations
by whom?
that shit's all voluntary.


I realise that the Govt need to have control over tracking bikes,

ehhh. why??!?



I know this gripe has been raised several times, I just want to keep it alive.
yup. keep griping. that achieves shit.



I have even written to my local MP and minister of transport, thats a waste of time.
so. the current system doesn't work as you believe it should. you feel you are not alone in this belief.
you feel that raising any issue with a person supposedly tasked with representing you to be pointless.

you should vote, or some shit. that will surely solve it, as proved when//...


If anyone has more influence on the Govt on this issue than I do I would like to hear sensible replies.

vote akzle.

teh govt=jews.
jews=jewgold.

stop giving them jewgold and see how cranky they get.

[Coldrider]

Bring back StoneY

[BMWST?]

if each license is "regoed" instead of each bike , the total take will need to be the same ?The difference will be that most people will pay even more than they do now.And then there will be threads about paying to rego 3.5 bikes whilst they actually own only one.

[Madness]

Perhaps something like a 5-yearly rider WOF might be a good idea also?

[OddDuck]

The problem with multi vehicles on one rego is groups of people getting together to defraud the system. It'd be almost overnight with tight families and the same for gangs... you'd get a guy out there 'owning' sixty bikes or cars for his patched mates. One rego. Awesome.

It'd be nice if they reduced classic for bikes to twenty years old + though.

[jasonu]

The problem with multi vehicles on one rego is groups of people getting together to defraud the system. It'd be almost overnight with tight families and the same for gangs... you'd get a guy out there 'owning' sixty bikes or cars for his patched mates. One rego. Awesome.

It'd be nice if they reduced classic for bikes to twenty years old + though.

A 'classic' GN250???

[awayatc]

nz is not interested in making bike ownership easy

on the contrary..

it is being discouraged

[Woodman]

What about people with multiple cars?

[Paul in NZ]

Works out for us... 1 x modern (ish) bike at full whack - one ancient bike at feck all

We do a lot of 2 up riding so the ACC levy actually covers the both of us if the worst happens and given the cost of putting me back together if god forbid we did have an off its a bargain...

[OddDuck]

A 'classic' GN250???

A classic Ducati Supersport 900... hey at this point I need all the help I can get!!

[Jeff Sichoe]

The most realistic option to monitor and measure this would be more active tracking of bikes and riders.

Ie GPS units with codes which relate back to YOU and what bike you are on, what speed you are going.

You'll have to put in your creditcard when you get your license and you'll be automatically ticketed the instant you hit +4km over the limit.

AWESOME that sounds fucking rad lets make it happen nerds

[Voltaire]

The 40 year cheap rego is due to the lobbying of the Vintage Car Club, and probably a touch of the old boy network.

Unlikely to Government gives a toss about motorcycles or people with multiple vehicles.

At the end of the day is a bit of luxury having more than one means of transport so you just have to suck it up.

I've got a 'modern' 93 Ducati 900 and 83 BMW R80ST on full reg, I used to have them registered all year round now only during summer. Rest of year I only register a 42

year old BMW for about $70. I think they should base the rego on HP :laugh::laugh:, all of mine have less than 70.

[pritch]

if each license is "regoed" instead of each bike , the total take will need to be the same ?

This. ^^^

The Minister at the time made it clear, ACC decided they needed X amount of money, so they came up with a plan to get that much money. We were told that other methods that did not meet the budgeted figures would not be considered.

Anecdotal evidence suggests their budget fell short. The only foreseeable change is that the ACC levy will increase. I'm not suggesting that's what should happen, I'm suggesting that given their logic an increase is possible. Because of the unpopularity of such a move though it is likely that the levy will stay the same. A reduction can be considered unlikely.

[Dadpole]

ACC recently announced a hefty loss. A good opportunity to charge those pesky bikers more and keep Joe Public on side.

[jasonu]

ACC recently announced a hefty loss..

Did they really?
Everything I have seen says the ACC makes millions upon millions in profit.

[Dadpole]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/84949992/ACC-investments-strong-but-interest-rate-fall-drives-3-4b-deficit

Accounts can say anything you want them to. The general public believes whatever the headline says. Witness the ACC 'loss' that lead to bike reg rises.

[BMWST?]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/84949992/ACC-investments-strong-but-interest-rate-fall-drives-3-4b-deficit

Accounts can say anything you want them to. The general public believes whatever the headline says. Witness the ACC 'loss' that lead to bike reg rises.
It wasnt even a loss,it was a theoretical exercise to make funding cover all outgoings in one year,current and future

[Jeff Sichoe]

http://autofile.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1-Paula-Rebstock-300x200.jpg


From the stuff comments;
time fat people had a tax put on them I know so many fat people with back and ankel problems.
I would love to see the satistics around fat people on the benefits and acc


that's fair enough - smokers pay for their health issues (and more) via tax.
We pay more for rego because we are soft and squishy when we crash

why don't the fats get some sort of punishment too?

[Akzle]

why don't the fats get some sort of punishment too?

because they're great consumers and work well "on the books" they need pharmaceuticals, shit's expensive (/profitable) they eat lots of shit (profit) they need huge cars to haul their huge asses around, no-one really cares about them, so long as you can drag out their fat life to keep them consuming (and wholly unable to riot or fight back when you want to implement martial law)... there's money to be made!

(as long as your on the side profiting from their hideousness, like a jew. rather than on ocean's side, and paying for it all, like a pleb)

[Voltaire]

http://autofile.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1-Paula-Rebstock-300x200.jpg


From the stuff comments;
time fat people had a tax put on them I know so many fat people with back and ankel problems.
I would love to see the satistics around fat people on the benefits and acc


that's fair enough - smokers pay for their health issues (and more) via tax.
We pay more for rego because we are soft and squishy when we crash

why don't the fats get some sort of punishment too?

Yeah, slap a 20% tax on Maccers and all that other shit like Coke," fitness " drinks, snack food and sweets.

Can't righteously think of any others at the mo.:laugh:

Unfortunately poor quality food is more affordable for people with not much income....turnips

[Jeff Sichoe]

well to be fair you could just charge people at the hospital when they get their legs lopped off due to self-induced diabetus

perhaps they could call it the toe tax and start charging ya for every digit that rots off

[Banditbandit]

The most realistic option to monitor and measure this would be more active tracking of bikes and riders.

Ie GPS units with codes which relate back to YOU and what bike you are on, what speed you are going.

You'll have to put in your creditcard when you get your license and you'll be automatically ticketed the instant you hit +4km over the limit.

AWESOME that sounds fucking rad lets make it happen nerds



You can't be serious ...

[Jeff Sichoe]

I wish I was joking but due to an apathetic population and ever more aggressive invasions of our private life in the interests of 'safety' and you know it's gonna happen sooner or later...

[onearmedbandit]

Unfortunately poor quality food is more affordable for people with not much income....turnips

What do you define as 'poor quality food'? My GF and I shop at a respected local owned butchery and get our groceries from what is considered an 'upmarket' supermarket, we eat well. We've done the maths and a restaurant quality dinner for us is typically $7-12 a portion.

[Voltaire]

What do you define as 'poor quality food'? My GF and I shop at a respected local owned butchery and get our groceries from what is considered an 'upmarket' supermarket, we eat well. We've done the maths and a restaurant quality dinner for us is typically $7-12 a portion.

Your right that you can eat well for less.

We tried that Foodbag for a while, pretty good to start with but $190 a week for 5 meals for 4?
Some of the recipes are pretty good but some of them were pretty ordinary.
On the up side, I was able to get my two boys to do a meal each as it came with instructions.


What I was referring to was how many people claim " I can't cook" and buy some of those overpriced heat and eat meals at the supermarket or take away shit.


Crock Pot Stew.

1kg blade or chuck steak
Kidneys ( yum)
couple of carrots
some potatoes
Onion
Can chopped tomatoes
any other nearly past best by date veges in fridge.
oxo cube
soy sauce
Lea and Perrins
tble spoon flour
salt and pepper
If you have herb garden, oregano, rosemary, parsely
10 minutes prep
Dash of Tabasco if you like hot.
leave for day to cook
about $15- $20 for 4 and maybe lunch.

I do a good Lasagne too.

[onearmedbandit]

Your right that you can eat well for less.


What I was referring to was how many people claim " I can't cook" and buy some of those overpriced heat and eat meals at the supermarket or take away shit.

You're right. In my opinion it's laziness. No motivation to shop, prepare and clean up. Easy to get fantastic recipes from the internet too, Jamie Oliver has some really simple and affordable meals that are amazing.

[jasonu]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/84949992/ACC-investments-strong-but-interest-rate-fall-drives-3-4b-deficit

Accounts can say anything you want them to. The general public believes whatever the headline says. Witness the ACC 'loss' that lead to bike reg rises.

I was referring to the amount of income vs the payouts which does bring in a huge profit. It seams they have poorly invested the public funded profits to create a huge loss.

[pritch]

Your right that you can eat well for less.



Crock Pot Stew.

1kg blade or chuck steak
Kidneys ( yum)
couple of carrots
some potatoes
Onion
Can chopped tomatoes
any other nearly past best by date veges in fridge.
oxo cube
soy sauce
Lea and Perrins
tble spoon flour
salt and pepper
If you have herb garden, oregano, rosemary, parsely
Dash of Tabasco if you like hot.


Close. I'd add a glass of red and a coupla garlic cloves. Which reminds me, it's wine o' clock.

[roogazza]

What do you define as 'poor quality food'? My GF and I shop at a respected local owned butchery and get our groceries from what is considered an 'upmarket' supermarket, we eat well. We've done the maths and a restaurant quality dinner for us is typically $7-12 a portion.
Thats what we operate on OAB , I do the cooking 99% of the time too.
(Madam reckons she's not trading me in,no way ). <_<

[Voltaire]

Close. I'd add a glass of red and a coupla garlic cloves. Which reminds me, it's wine o' clock.

Hey....not bad off the top of my head in the middle of doing an asset report :violin:

Shariz? Originally I think an Iranian grape until about 1979 when they mysteriously pulled them all out:facepalm:

[rocketman1]

if each license is "regoed" instead of each bike , the total take will need to be the same ?The difference will be that most people will pay even more than they do now.And then there will be threads about paying to rego 3.5 bikes whilst they actually own only one.

The rider should pay for a rego licence, not too worried about ~$550? a year, its the other $550 i have to pay for the buike sitting in the shed.
Only the riders that crash and get fined regularly get demerit points etc pay an increase in licence fees. They Pay the 3 x$550 per year!!

[rocketman1]

Perhaps something like a 5-yearly rider WOF might be a good idea also?

I am not opposed to that idea, anything that keeps bikers alive and healthy is a good idea.

[rocketman1]

The problem with multi vehicles on one rego is groups of people getting together to defraud the system. It'd be almost overnight with tight families and the same for gangs... you'd get a guy out there 'owning' sixty bikes or cars for his patched mates. One rego. Awesome.

It'd be nice if they reduced classic for bikes to twenty years old + though.

Yeah thought about this, could be a problem but if you had to pay minimum rego for each bike, as well as rider licence fee, it may reduce the likelyhood of this happening.

[rocketman1]

nz is not interested in making bike ownership easy

on the contrary..

it is being discouraged

I agree with that, option is do away with ACC and make everyone pay medical insurance the govt would probably save heaps put the onus on the insurance companies and riders.

[rocketman1]

What about people with multiple cars?

I could insure 6 modern cars for the fee of one bike >600cc

[rocketman1]

The most realistic option to monitor and measure this would be more active tracking of bikes and riders.

Ie GPS units with codes which relate back to YOU and what bike you are on, what speed you are going.

You'll have to put in your creditcard when you get your license and you'll be automatically ticketed the instant you hit +4km over the limit.

AWESOME that sounds fucking rad lets make it happen nerds

Shhhh! The Minister might read this ,

[rocketman1]

The 40 year cheap rego is due to the lobbying of the Vintage Car Club, and probably a touch of the old boy network.

Unlikely to Government gives a toss about motorcycles or people with multiple vehicles.

At the end of the day is a bit of luxury having more than one means of transport so you just have to suck it up.

I've got a 'modern' 93 Ducati 900 and 83 BMW R80ST on full reg, I used to have them registered all year round now only during summer. Rest of year I only register a 42

year old BMW for about $70. I think they should base the rego on HP :laugh::laugh:, all of mine have less than 70.

..........Its the old boy network I want to tap into... whats their Ph #

[rocketman1]

Your right that you can eat well for less.

We tried that Foodbag for a while, pretty good to start with but $190 a week for 5 meals for 4?
Some of the recipes are pretty good but some of them were pretty ordinary.
On the up side, I was able to get my two boys to do a meal each as it came with instructions.


What I was referring to was how many people claim " I can't cook" and buy some of those overpriced heat and eat meals at the supermarket or take away shit.


Crock Pot Stew.

1kg blade or chuck steak
Kidneys ( yum)
couple of carrots
some potatoes
Onion
Can chopped tomatoes
any other nearly past best by date veges in fridge.
oxo cube
soy sauce
Lea and Perrins
tble spoon flour
salt and pepper
If you have herb garden, oregano, rosemary, parsely
10 minutes prep
Dash of Tabasco if you like hot.
leave for day to cook
about $15- $20 for 4 and maybe lunch.

I do a good Lasagne too.

Scared this thread may enter as a recipe book

[Scubbo]

Scared this thread may enter as a recipe book


beef cheek works better, and is cheaper :eek:

[Voltaire]

Scared this thread may enter as a recipe book

The Govt will never make bike rego cheaper for multiple bikes, other than the 40 year old ones.

To change anything involves lots and lots of campaigning and lobbying, thats why the House always wins.


A nice IPA goes well with a stew...well anything really

[pritch]

A nice IPA goes well with a stew...well anything really

Yeah Carbonnade Flamande has a bottle of beer in it but careful with the IPA, you don't want excessive hops in your stew or your dinner will be bitter.
Don't ask me how I know this. :innocent:

[Swoop]

http://autofile.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1-Paula-Rebstock-300x200.jpg


From the stuff comments;
time fat people had a tax put on them I know so many fat people with back and ankel problems.
I would love to see the satistics around fat people on the benefits and acc


that's fair enough - smokers pay for their health issues (and more) via tax.
We pay more for rego because we are soft and squishy when we crash

why don't the fats get some sort of punishment too?

You mean like this?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/hawaiian-airlines-policy-weighing-passengers-american-samoa/

[Cosmik de Bris]

I don't mind paying a registration fee for each vehicle but I do object to paying ACC on every vehicle. It is the driver or rider of the vehicle that should be charged. Rego is for the vehicle, ACC is for the operator.

[onearmedbandit]

I don't mind paying a registration fee for each vehicle but I do object to paying ACC on every vehicle. It is the driver or rider of the vehicle that should be charged. Rego is for the vehicle, ACC is for the operator.

I think we all feel the same, if not then most. However if it was done that way your ACC contribution would go up to cover the decreased revenue.

[Voltaire]

I bet they collect a lot less over the winter with Rego On Hold that when it was less.

[old slider]

I think we all feel the same, if not then most. However if it was done that way your ACC contribution would go up to cover the decreased revenue.

I like that idea.

Firearm ownership the person is licensed, not how many firearms they own.

Bike riders could be similar, definitely not a fair user pays system when one person maybe paying multiple times.

[Voltaire]

..........Its the old boy network I want to tap into... whats their Ph #

thing is that for there to be any change, involves large groups with lots of members being on Committees and making submissions to Govt.

You may have noticed the AA get listened to, the VCC gets cheap rego for over 40 year old vehicles, and the Motor Caravan Club gets Freedom Camping.

Nearest I have see to this for motorcycles was the Bikoi of 2008....? We all rode to Wellington and made some noise outside the Beehive, also did a park up at Mission Bay.

Govt "backed" down on ACC levy ( they probably did this on purpose, make it high with some wriggle room)

Everyone went home and declared Victory.

I wonder if the Bike Dealers and distributors go into bat for their customers...... Tui Moment.

You could join the laughable MAG and park up in Ponsonby :clap:

Ring up Simon Bridges , I think he is the Minister for Transport

Hon Simon Bridges
Minister of Transport
Parliament Buildings
Wellington 6011
New Zealand
or email
s.bridges@ministers.govt.nz

let us know how you get on....:msn-wink:

[Akzle]

I like that idea.

Firearm ownership the person is licensed, not how many firearms they own.

Bike riders could be similar, definitely not a fair user pays system when one person maybe paying multiple times.

that's because guns are dangerous. which is why shooters pay so much ACC. :calm:

[Voltaire]

that's because guns are dangerous. which is why shooters pay so much ACC. :calm:

bike registration is not really an issue for you :laugh::laugh::laugh:

cheeep reg on the schweet Phat Joo Magna:niceone:

[rocketman1]

thing is that for there to be any change, involves large groups with lots of members being on Committees and making submissions to Govt.


I have all written to him. a while back now, He fobbed off to some other dude, finally got a reply saying something like, that bikers didnt pay there way, others were subsidising them, and until riders and the cost of accidents reduced, there was unlikely to be any reduction in the licence fees.



I feel its a losing battle, I justify the expense by saying my friends spend just as much or more on their fishing boats and rods etc, skiing or golf etc.
I guess I will just get over it. At least car licence fees have gone down, so overall the cars and bikes I own put together has reduced a little.

But we need to keep complaining, else it will keep going up.

[russd7]

this is kinda a dead argument that just does not stack up.
if you pay more than one bike licence it is because you own more than one bike, that equals choice, if you only want to pay one licence then only own one bike.
I own two road legal bikes by choice and on any given day i could ride both of them (at different times of course) if i have them both licenced then i am legal, if not then i am legal unless told otherwise.

we also have two cars and if i am riding my bike then i am not driving my car so therefore should my car also be attached to my licence, but what happens when one of the kids or a friend borrows my car.

just suck it up and be thankful that we have ACC and do not have to have private insurance and if you only want to pay one licence fee then only own one bike or run the risk on hold

[pritch]

I have all written to him.


So, was this unanimous or did the voices want to do something different? :whistle:

[granstar]

Many voices in my head at once, one says why not combine your vehicle regos' to suit ownership with a bit of relief for multi owners, shit Iv'e got a family of 8 ?

[Voltaire]

I don't mind paying GST on the 1st bottle of beer, but I think the GST on the other 5 in the 6 pack should be less.:rolleyes:

[Akzle]

There is 2 ways around it with the first one being you register each bike for a percentage of the year and it only costs slightly more than registering one bike for a whole year.
I dont want to post the second way around it on here because it could be illegal or a loophole in the law. If the cops were to find out about it they would close it in the interest of revenue gathering which would be the only way they could justify prosecuting for it.

im not sure if you realise, you dumb sack of shit. but police exist to enforce the legislature, not write it.

[Voltaire]

im not sure if you realise, you dumb sack of shit. but police exist to enforce the legislature, not write it.


Turnip calls Pumpkin a turnip

[rocketman1]

this is kinda a dead argument that just does not stack up.
if you pay more than one bike licence it is because you own more than one bike, that equals choice, if you only want to pay one licence then only own one bike.
I own two road legal bikes by choice and on any given day i could ride both of them (at different times of course) if i have them both licenced then i am legal, if not then i am legal unless told otherwise.

we also have two cars and if i am riding my bike then i am not driving my car so therefore should my car also be attached to my licence, but what happens when one of the kids or a friend borrows my car.

just suck it up and be thankful that we have ACC and do not have to have private insurance and if you only want to pay one licence fee then only own one bike or run the risk on hold

Should this logic stack up for insurance, well it doesnt, I insure two bikes for 5% more than the cost of one , why because I can only ride one bike at a time. Same could happen for Rego's

[Akzle]

So you dumb sack of shit believe there is no such thing as legislation bought in for the purpose of revenue gathering itself?

show me where I said that, you dumb shitsack.

all legislation exists for teh jews. police conduct teh transactions. kinda like what I just said. you stupid cunt.

[Voltaire]

Azalia and Cassandra together at last.

http://images.latinpost.com/data/images/full/2682/dumb-and-dumber-2-starts-filming-and-will-top-the-original.jpg

[Laava]

Azalia and Cassandra together at last]

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc60/jscores/Timmy/southpark-cartman-timmy.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/jscores/media/Timmy/southpark-cartman-timmy.jpg.html)

[Cosmik de Bris]

I don't mind paying GST on the 1st bottle of beer, but I think the GST on the other 5 in the 6 pack should be less.:rolleyes:

Without attribution or any other hint for context it is difficult to know what you're on about, but if it's about only paying one ACC charge per person then your comment is plain idiotic. Registration is for the vehicle. A person, in most cases, can only drive one vehicle at a time and is the person that incurs the charges for hospital care. Thus, it is reasonable in a society whose Government is not just about revenue collecting, to attribute the costs to the person, perhaps as part of the driving licence.

This makes much more sense to me, but you seem to like straw man type arguments that make little sense.

[Voltaire]

Without attribution or any other hint for context it is difficult to know what you're on about, but if it's about only paying one ACC charge per person then your comment is plain idiotic. Registration is for the vehicle. A person, in most cases, can only drive one vehicle at a time and is the person that incurs the charges for hospital care. Thus, it is reasonable in a society whose Government is not just about revenue collecting, to attribute the costs to the person, perhaps as part of the driving licence.

This makes much more sense to me, but you seem to like straw man type arguments that make little sense.

Makes about as much sense as thinking that something is not fair that anything is going to change.

I have a car a van and two motorcycle on full rego, the ACC component is about $744 a year ( based on 12 months). Cheap cover in my opinion. If i was not happy with it I'd sell some of them.

Strawman arguments are the bread and butter of this forum.

[Jeff Sichoe]

Could have a little sheep-ear tag on your helmet which entitles you to ride on the road, then the bike wouldn't matter cause if you got pulled up if you didn't have your ear tag you'd be in trouble

I'd suggest for a minor fee you could get upgraded to a sweet barcode tat on your forearm which gives you the right to ride (but if you lapse rego they scrape the tat off with a bit of glass)

better than getting fucked in the ass by the current system amirite?

[Akzle]

Could have a little sheep-ear tag on your helmet which entitles you to ride on the road, then the bike wouldn't matter cause if you got pulled up if you didn't have your ear tag you'd be in trouble

I'd suggest for a minor fee you could get upgraded to a sweet barcode tat on your forearm which gives you the right to ride (but if you lapse rego they scrape the tat off with a bit of glass)

better than getting fucked in the ass by the current system amirite?

implanted rfid chips. with remote det function...

[Moi]

What say we scrap ACC, then you'll only have to licence your bike at about $25 per annum...

But the trade-off is that you have to arrange your own comprehensive accident insurance to cover while you're at home, at work, on your way to and from work, when you're out enjoying yourself for the night, when you're driving your classic car or riding your bike... the list goes on...

I've challenged people in the past to go and get a quote for accident insurance provided by an insurance company that is of the same quality as that provided by ACC - and quick as a flash there's been no reply... I wonder why?

[Jeff Sichoe]

dude no-one is saying that the idea of ACC is shit

I think you'll find most people who understand the idea would agree.

what this thread is about is when people own MULTIPLE bikes and are then paying for that privilege of having them sit in the garage at home, un-ridden, yet still costing megabucks.

The argument is that just because YOU are only able to ride one bike, that there would be nothing stopping OTHERS riding your bikes also.

The other argument is that the cost of enforcing compliance through other means (Fuel Tax, Drivers License fee increase etc) is not worth the time the government would need to put into a solution.

I think most people would agree that currently, multiple bike owners who want them legal and who don't share their toys are getting screwed compared to the rest of us.

[old slider]

dude no-one is saying that the idea of ACC is shit

I think you'll find most people who understand the idea would agree.

what this thread is about is when people own MULTIPLE bikes and are then paying for that privilege of having them sit in the garage at home, un-ridden, yet still costing megabucks.

The argument is that just because YOU are only able to ride one bike, that there would be nothing stopping OTHERS riding your bikes also.

The other argument is that the cost of enforcing compliance through other means (Fuel Tax, Drivers License fee increase etc) is not worth the time the government would need to put into a solution.

I think most people would agree that currently, multiple bike owners who want them legal and who don't share their toys are getting screwed compared to the rest of us.


I agree. Yet I still think about my $25 ACC fee having 6 people in my car with my $88 rego and my $422 ACC cover to ride my bike.

[pritch]

Some of you guys haven't been reading the thread - or fuck all else? There is a budgeted figure ACC are attempting to meet - end of story. They give zero fucks about anything else.

If you want to change that you need to change the government. Good luck with that.

[rocketman1]

What say we scrap ACC, then you'll only have to licence your bike at about $25 per annum...

But the trade-off is that you have to arrange your own comprehensive accident insurance to cover while you're at home, at work, on your way to and from work, when you're out enjoying yourself for the night, when you're driving your classic car or riding your bike... the list goes on...

I've challenged people in the past to go and get a quote for accident insurance provided by an insurance company that is of the same quality as that provided by ACC - and quick as a flash there's been no reply... I wonder why?
Has some merit , but that would as per the USA system where everyone has to pay for their hospital care through insurance. For those that dont have insurance, tough luck, things are not good for you.

[Moi]

dude no-one is saying that the idea of ACC is shit

I think you'll find most people who understand the idea would agree.

what this thread is about is when people own MULTIPLE bikes and are then paying for that privilege of having them sit in the garage at home, un-ridden, yet still costing megabucks.

The argument is that just because YOU are only able to ride one bike, that there would be nothing stopping OTHERS riding your bikes also.

The other argument is that the cost of enforcing compliance through other means (Fuel Tax, Drivers License fee increase etc) is not worth the time the government would need to put into a solution.

I think most people would agree that currently, multiple bike owners who want them legal and who don't share their toys are getting screwed compared to the rest of us.

You are only getting screwed, to use your expression, if you think you are being screwed... if, as has been said earlier, you accept that the requirements at present are that to have your bikes legal for road use requires you to have paid multiple ACC payments then you are not being screwed... you have chosen to pay multiple amounts - as no one is making you own any bikes at all, let alone multiple bikes. You make the choice, you pay the price.

I have made the choice to own multiple vehicles so I have chosen to accept the requirements that if I want them to be available for use year round then I multiple ACC levies. If I don't like it, then I can either not pay the levies and not ride or ride and risk the penalties if caught. It is nothing about being "screwed", it is about choice and personal responsibility...

My tuppence worth...

[Moi]

Has some merit , but that would as per the USA system where everyone has to pay for their hospital care through insurance. For those that don't have insurance, tough luck, things are not good for you.

Precisely...

[5ive]

Works for me, I'm paying less than $1 per 100km for the one bike. Well worth it.

According to the stats, it's the older/returning riders with larger bikes, and big incomes having most of the accidents and creating the expenses. They'd be getting their moneys worth as well.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Research/Documents/Motorcycles-15.pdf

So if you're worried about the cost, you could own less bikes, ride more, or ban older riders.

I know who tends to vote/throw more money around though...

[old slider]

Some of you guys haven't been reading the thread - or fuck all else? There is a budgeted figure ACC are attempting to meet - end of story. They give zero fucks about anything else.

If you want to change that you need to change the government. Good luck with that.


Sorry Pritch, I skipped the recipe, fat tax and diet pages and missed some of the pertinent earlier posts.

Do ACC lump all accidents/incidents involving bikes on public roads, quads, and all off road riding in the one basket?

[Coldrider]

Having been on the on ya bike charity ride on Saturday I don't see the accident rate coming down anytime soon. In fact if that is what anybody is waiting for we're fucked.

[Coldrider]

If ACC were serious about reducing accidents though they would charge higher premiums to drivers and riders who have a history of causing crashes rather than just single out all motorcyclists as being responsible for causing more crashes than anyone else.

We are all tared with the same brush, us hooligans and the antics we get up to on our motorcycles in full display of the public, we are the biggest law breakers in the land. Even the meek and mild want overly loud exhausts to feel 'bad ass'.

[Berries]

Without attribution or any other hint for context it is difficult to know what you're on about, but if it's about only paying one ACC charge per person then your comment is plain idiotic. Registration is for the vehicle. A person, in most cases, can only drive one vehicle at a time and is the person that incurs the charges for hospital care. Thus, it is reasonable in a society whose Government is not just about revenue collecting, to attribute the costs to the person, perhaps as part of the driving licence.

This makes much more sense to me, but you seem to like straw man type arguments that make little sense.
Yes. I only own one bike and get fucked off at the ACC component of rego after never claiming on ACC for a motorbike crash. A few sporting claims where I contributed a big fat zero but nothing on two wheels. I don't know how anyone can say that if you have two bikes you should pay twice the amount. Absolute shit. You can only ride one bike at a time so if you own one bike or 500, the risk of you having a crash and having a claim is based on your exposure. This has absolutely nothing to do with the number of bikes you own/ride.

To be honest ACC appears a bit Russian to me. I grew up in the UK where you had to get insurance and it was based on risk - age, experience, model of bike, number of points, where you live etc etc. I do think that whatever you get charged should be based on your true risk, not some made up shit based on the size of the engine but a combination of all the other factors that influence the chance of you becoming a smear on the road. Past history seems to be a big one which is totally ignored.

And conversely, I would probably have a second bike if it was not for this bullshit. It would undoubtedly be less likely to be involved in a fatal crash than my current wheels but I am fucked if I am paying those bastards 2x whatever it is. So my risk of claiming is actually higher than if I had two bikes. Nice one. But then I realise I joined KB because of the ACC bullshit and there is no point whatsoever ranting on here.

[Coldrider]

I have three bikes, 2 rego ed one at a time, and a dirt bike, BTW I thought 'Russian' was a titty fuck /pearl necklace.

[Voltaire]

If ACC were serious about reducing accidents though they would charge higher premiums to drivers and riders who have a history of causing crashes rather than just single out all motorcyclists as being responsible for causing more crashes than anyone else.

They are serious about reducing accidents by pricing motorcycles off the road. From the sounds of it plan is working well.

[pritch]

Do ACC lump all accidents/incidents involving bikes on public roads, quads, and all off road riding in the one basket?

Dunno but I'd guess so.

What I was referring to is that it was explained at the time that ACC had come up with a figure that motorcycle accidents were costing nationally. They then formulated a plan to recover that figure from motorcyclists.

When it was suggested that we can only ride one bike at a time so we should only pay one fee, it was Nick Smith (IIRC) replied that was not acceptable because the amount collected on that basis would not meet ACCs budgeted figure.

So forget everything else, the bottom line is the bottom line. Everything else is irrelevant.

[old slider]

Dunno but I'd guess so.

What I was referring to is that it was explained at the time that ACC had come up with a figure that motorcycle accidents were costing nationally. They then formulated a plan to recover that figure from motorcyclists.

When it was suggested that we can only ride one bike at a time so we should only pay one fee, it was Nick Smith (IIRC) replied that was not acceptable because the amount collected on that basis would not meet ACCs budgeted figure.

So forget everything else, the bottom line is the bottom line. Everything else is irrelevant.


Thanks. Probably be difficult to determine actual Reg motorcycle accidents costs alone, rather than having all classes of motorcycle accidents lumped together, The costs of the "too many" Quad accidents and deaths along with all other off public roads use must be quite high.

[Voltaire]

Thanks. Probably be difficult to determine actual Reg motorcycle accidents costs alone, rather than having all classes of motorcycle accidents lumped together, The costs of the "too many" Quad accidents and deaths along with all other off public roads use must be quite high.

some stats to mull over from the Govt.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/crashfacts/motorcyclecrashfacts/

ACC

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/statistics/

As Pritch points out its down to numbers.

I bet they would like to do away with " Rego on Hold"

[Paul in NZ]

The register the rider and not the bike argument falls down when a pillion gets on the back. Not any more risk of an accident but a lot more expensive if the unthinkable happens.

We ride 2 up a lot. ACC makes it a reasonable deal.

[Voltaire]

In the case of cars a hell of a lot more injury can be done if they are carrying passengers too. I feel it is us that are funding cheap car reg rather than the other way around that they claim.

read the link I posted, takes the 'feeling' out and gives numbers.

20 time more likely to die on a motorcycle than a car may have some bearing on it, also the number of cars on the road Vs the number of motorcycles.

I get the whole " can only ride one at a time" and so on but that's how it is and no one cares....actually ACC do.

http://www.rideforever.co.nz/

They even have a doc on Lanesplitting

http://www.rideforever.co.nz/news-articles-and-reviews/lane-splitting/

[old slider]

some stats to mull over from the Govt.

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/crashfacts/motorcyclecrashfacts/

ACC

http://www.acc.co.nz/about-acc/statistics/

As Pritch points out its down to numbers.

I bet they would like to do away with " Rego on Hold"


Shite, that is pretty sobering. I wonder what caused the big surge in the over 40 stats starting from the mid 2000s when comparing to the 80s.

[swarfie]

Shite, that is pretty sobering. I wonder what caused the big surge in the over 40 stats starting from the mid 2000s when comparing to the 80s.

Most likely loads of born again 40 & 50 something "bikers" returning to the fold and riding bikes that make four times the horsepower than the ones they rode "back in the day". :rolleyes:

[Paul in NZ]

Most likely loads of born again 40 & 50 something "bikers" returning to the fold and riding bikes that make four times the horsepower than the ones they rode "back in the day". :rolleyes:

Well that and the bikes are really different to ride. My old big wheeled Triumph TR6C is a natural handler - you dont actually need to over think it - it just happens and the weight is low. The ST1050 is totally different and much more technical to ride if you want to get a wriggle (more a wobble really) on. Weight is carried high and you need to think about apex's, weight transfer and being effing careful at low speed. Yes its a lardy old thing but it can go from yippee to oh feck in the blink of an eye.

[Voltaire]

Could that explain the bikes I have seen at Star Auctions that were single vehicle 'accidents"?:rolleyes:

They guy there pointed out a few and said " they should have trusted the traction control and ABS instead of crashing"

Can't be that many Born Again Bikers coming thru as Jap imports killed of bikes in the early 90's:baby:

[SPman]

20 time more likely to die on a motorcycle than a car may have some bearing on it,



Well - iff'n you're dead, they aren't paying out large for ongoing treatment, are they, so that should be an advantage, not a liability!

[jasonu]

The register the rider and not the bike argument falls down when a pillion gets on the back. Not any more risk of an accident but a lot more expensive if the unthinkable happens.

We ride 2 up a lot. ACC makes it a reasonable deal.

Like these pricks???

[Paul in NZ]

Could that explain the bikes I have seen at Star Auctions that were single vehicle 'accidents"?:rolleyes:

They guy there pointed out a few and said " they should have trusted the traction control and ABS instead of crashing"

Can't be that many Born Again Bikers coming thru as Jap imports killed of bikes in the early 90's:baby:

No but shed loads of people come from other big wheel bikes like trailies or some cruisers and don't get that sport bike / sport tourer geometry changed a LOT and weight transfers a bloody big deal on them. The weights carried high so under acceleration it will move back an weight the rear wheel and stop wheelspin (pre traction control). Loads of older riders on affordable moderns like our ST1050 and are still trying to ride them like their old Beemer or Norton Commando... You can get away with that up to a certain pace then it goes pear shaped fast especially when your reaction times fall away..

We had to experiment a LOT with the ST to get to grips with it including upgrading the suspension and that's something else - I honestly think a lot of ex Japan bikes are more softly sprung than Kiwi new ones and put your average Kiwi biker on them and they are positively an accident waiting to happen.

[russd7]

No but shed loads of people come from other big wheel bikes like trailies or some cruisers and don't get that sport bike / sport tourer geometry changed a LOT and weight transfers a bloody big deal on them. The weights carried high so under acceleration it will move back an weight the rear wheel and stop wheelspin (pre traction control). Loads of older riders on affordable moderns like our ST1050 and are still trying to ride them like their old Beemer or Norton Commando... You can get away with that up to a certain pace then it goes pear shaped fast especially when your reaction times fall away..

We had to experiment a LOT with the ST to get to grips with it including upgrading the suspension and that's something else - I honestly think a lot of ex Japan bikes are more softly sprung than Kiwi new ones and put your average Kiwi biker on them and they are positively an accident waiting to happen.

yup exactly on the most but the bouncy bits are quite easily explained and somit i learned when i bought the ZZR new.
most bikes come out with the bouncy bits set up for a rider of around 80kg which is fine for some young buck that no matter what he eats or drinks cant put any weight on but once ya gets a little older then things tend to expand or at least the clothes shrink and then ya probly want to chuck something on the back to keep ya warm at a rally plus all her gear and a tent so that 80 odd kg suddenly becomes 200kg (or there abouts) so then the nice sports tourer turns in to a bloody floundering whale in the corners.
all up around half a ton.

[pritch]

I honestly think a lot of ex Japan bikes are more softly sprung than Kiwi new ones and put your average Kiwi biker on them and they are positively an accident waiting to happen.

Absolutely! My Jap import dragged its arse tragically until I put the Ohlins on.

Years ago I did read the weight limit Honda set for their international team of testers. IIRC it was 82Kg.
All Honda road bikes over 250cc have to be signed off by the team.

Bikes for the Japanese home market may well be set up for riders who weigh a lot less than yer average Brit or Kiwi.

[jasonu]

Absolutely! My Jap import dragged its arse tragically until I put the Ohlins on. Years ago I read the weight limit Honda put on their international test team IIRC it was 82Kg.
Their home market bikes may be set for less than that though, the average Japanese rider probably weighs less than yer average Brit or Kiwi.

Eat less pies...
Check out the top 10 industrialized countries list
http://obesity.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004371#II

[Ocean1]

Most likely loads of born again 40 & 50 something "bikers" returning to the fold and riding bikes that make four times the horsepower than the ones they rode "back in the day". :rolleyes:

Yep. But that big lump in the riding age is fucking huge, the number of accidents is higher in there, but they're still the safest age demographic.

That don't support the "born again and can't handle it" hypothesis though, so it don't get much traction but the fact is novices are by far the crashingest bunch, as they've always been, and you bin less from there on up.

[pritch]

Eat less pies...
Check out the top 10 industrialized countries list
http://obesity.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004371#II

That bears out what I thought, Britain and NZ are high on the list japan is ranked down in the sixties.

[Swoop]

I honestly think a lot of ex Japan bikes are more softly sprung than Kiwi new ones and put your average Kiwi biker on them and they are positively an accident waiting to happen.

Couple that with the fact that the 600cc range has very "budget" suspension to start with. A good sized bike with loads of potential for intermediate and advanced riders, which is let down by shoddy suspenders. Even more so if someone has had a pie too many.

[Coldrider]

There needs to be an alternative interest thought up as a cure for a midlife crisis maybe.
Actually there is, but it is as well as. Went back to my childhood, went fresh water fishing. Got taken (not kidnapped) out to sea fishing, wow, now have 200 hp 6.5 metre launch. Horsepower no problem, speed even less a problem, fuel consumption =grin factor, but back in the real world, even that world bubble is being busted with reality, blame etc if it goes wrong, but at the moment ACC is nonexistent except for petrol tax acc component, and road user levies on petrol for lakes, coastal regions and rivers that aren't roads, cunts.