Gull Pump Fuel

[FastFred]

325102 https://www.google.com/maps/@-36.758018,174.7508542,3a,75y,301.66h,77.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxWmplx8_uBGIST-UCi_kjg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Here we go, a decent pump fuel for normal use in multi fuel cars and probably pretty good for a racing air cooled two strokes too.

http://gull.nz/fuel/gull-force-pro/

Gull Force Pro is designed for use in FlexFuel vehicles which are able to run on any blend from E10 to E85, as well as normal petrol should the need arise. Holden launched FlexFuel capable vehicles in the New Zealand market in 2010. It can also be used in specifically designed high performance motor racing engines, i.e., motor sports and rally cars.

[Flettner]

Good stuff, F9 loves it.

[TZ350]

Here we go, a decent pump fuel for normal use in multi fuel cars and probably pretty good for a racing air cooled two strokes too.

http://gull.nz/fuel/gull-force-pro/

Bugger, just when I have swapped over to a water cooled engine ....... :brick:

Still I have the 125cc air cooled RGV250 conversion sitting on the shelf.

[Flettner]

E85 at work
https://youtu.be/CnIemdISKrM

[Hemi Makutu]

Crisp running, tangy sounding F9, very tasty, thanks F.

& manual injection enrichment to start, that's a bit like the old Amal 'tickler' set-up.

( But how come - you aint wearing gloves?)

[Flettner]

I was teaching the gloves a lesson, they didn't want to be found so I said bugger you I don't need you. Found them when I was packing up to go home :oi-grr:
A few lacerations due to the close calls with the blackberry. Yes she goes well (at last) and it does like it's petrol to start. Rev counter said max was 8100 on that run so I still had another 900 up my sleeve.

[TZ350]

Well, I have spent the last few evenings working with a 4T on the dyno. The 4T was running E85 and the general atmosphere in the workshop was much, much better than when I work with bikes running the usual 96. Poisonous shit that unleaded, I always feel crook afterwards. I was skeptical about the value of E85, now I am a fan. And seeing its becoming increasingly available at the pump from the better service stations. Its easier to get and cheaper than AvGas, around Auckland anyway. Hopefully it might become generally accepted as a race fuel, hope so.

[FastFred]

E85 ... cheaper, easier to get than AvGas, my guess is more and more four stroke guys will use it until it becomes the norm performance Bucket racing fuel, like AvGas is now.

You can buy it at some Gull petrol stations, specialty suppliers and the main ingrediant of the shelf (metholated spirits) at any hardware store throughout the country.

http://www.southpacificethanol.com/ethanol-fuel.html

http://gull.nz/fuel/gull-force-pro/

http://www.autostore.co.nz/11101.html

http://www.nzchemicalsuppliers.co.nz/content/page/e85-race-fuel

http://www.motorsport.org.nz/resources/competitors/equipment-fuel-suppliers

http://www.kelford.co.nz/

http://www.tmkpackers.co.nz/?gclid=CjwKEAiAr4vBBRCG36e415-_l1wSJAAatjJZMxLfDz6JCLljFfl2ucQHXtkEocodxeRv90A5m 6Xz1hoCIqLw_wcB this link has a lot of address for suppliers around the country.


And seeing its becoming increasingly available at the pump from the better service stations. Its easier to get and cheaper than AvGas, around Auckland anyway. Hopefully it might become generally accepted as a "Bucket" race fuel, hope so.

E85 seems to be available at a lot of places outside of Auckland too.

It does not seem to make sense anymore for Buckets to appose E85 as a legitimate racing fuel. Its available to all, North and South Island, cheaper and maybe better than AvGas.

[Flettner]

Be rude not to use E85 seeing as Gull have specially installed pumps just for us.

[Hemi Makutu]

For a couple of bucks get a bunch of moth balls ( read label so as to ensure they are all napthalene)
& dissolve them in a jar of E85, with a slug of acetone &/or xylene..

Next dyno run when combustion seems erratic, chuck it in the mix.. it may/should settle it down..

[TZ350]

Be rude not to use E85 seeing as Gull have specially installed pumps just for us.

I just had a look through the current MNZ road racing rule book and appendixes. I could see where nitro is restricted for all classes and some classes are restricted to petrol only and some other classes are allowed petrol or methanol but any fuel type restrictions for Buckets is not mentioned anywhere that I could see. Possibly an over site but as it stands now I guess fuel is currently open for them. E85 is in, methanol too by the look of it. And that is the way it should be in my opinion, because it keeps rules simple and for some, Bucket development has always been about pushing the tuning envelope. Could we see a methanol burning supercharged 100cc 4T or a turbo 70cc 2T sometime, now that would be great.

Napthalene ...

https://www.envirotechglobal.co.nz/fuel-cleaner-products/?.html

http://www.hho4free.com/additives/naphthalene.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/mothball-additive-in-tanks-gives-fuel-for-thought/2007/08/07/1186252708319.html

[husaberg]

I just had a look through the current MNZ road racing rule book and appendixes. I could see where nitro is restricted for all classes and some classes are restricted to petrol only and some other classes are allowed petrol or methanol but any fuel type restrictions for Buckets is not mentioned anywhere that I could see. Possibly an over site but as it stands now I guess fuel is currently open for them. E85 is in, methanol too by the look of it. And that is the way it should be in my opinion, because it keeps rules simple and for some, Bucket development has always been about pushing the tuning envelope. Could we see a methanol burning supercharged 100cc 4T or a turbo 70cc 2T sometime, now that would be great.

Sneaky Rob, but they define pump fuel in the fuel regs.
Apendix ....later
https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/rules/appendix-d---fuel-specifications-(road).pdf?sfvrsn=2

the tech regs use this for class

10.21 Fuel: The following classes shall be restricted to petrol having a maximum characteristics not exceeding Avgas or unleaded FIM“ as defined in Appendix D.

All Road Race classes except those classes listed in 10.21a and 10.21b

IE buckets
10.21a The following classes shall be restricted to petrol having maximum characteristics not exceeding “unleaded Super” as defined in Appendix D. No additives may be added to the fuel. 1. Supersport Appendix F 2. Superbike Appendix C 3. 650 Pro Twin Appendix E 4. 250 Production Appendix H 5. Young Junior Road Race Chapter 14 6. Lightweight Production Appendix I


10.21b The following classes shall have the choice of either petrol having maximum characteristics not exceeding “Avgas, Unleaded FIM” or methanol, both as defined in Appendix D. Sidecars as defined in chapter 18. National Speed Records, Hill Climb – Road-- Classic Road Racing as defined in Chapter 15, Post Classic (Period 72) Road Racing as defined in Rule 17.3, Post Classic (Period 82) Post Classic (Period 89) Road Racing as defined in Rule 17.4 (4 stroke engines only). Any machines using methanol must display “Dangerous Goods” or other appropriate stickers that clearly indicate its use, on the machine in a prominent place e.g. number boards.



10.21c Note: Nitro methane and similar agents are prohibited in all classes of racing
10.21d Fuel Specifications see Appendix D.

https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/rules/chapter-10---motorcycles-technical-(road).pdf?sfvrsn=2

I am pretty sure Gull e85 will never pass as FIM or AV gas or pump gas eq.
As the ethanol content is too high 10% maximum from what i can see?

That aside Even though Nitros oxide is not a fuel (its an oxidiser )thats gets banned as well, someone challanged that years ago, and i lost a bet on it. Which is an shame as it would work as an intercooler on a turbo or superchaged bike .

[TZ350]

I missed the "all road race classes" bit and yes appendix D defines a max of 10% ethanol in your petrol, ie the old E10 but I think that people will just start using E85 because its there, its cheap, easy to get, easier than AvGas and in the end it will become the norm.

[husaberg]

I missed the "all road race classes" bit but I think that people will just start using E85 because its there and in the end it will be accepted. To late for me now I have gone water cooled .... :weep: still appendix D does allow Methanol.

RT was i believe instrumental in having the nitro banned for the formula clases, after a certain BMS ducati reponded to it rather too well.
Grumph used to use the funny fuels as well in F3
The original Bucket rules were 100cc four strokes open fuel, the rest 96 octane pump fuel.
that was back in the 2 strokes 103cc max (ie no 125AC)
4 strokes 130.5cc max.

[Grumph]

I missed the "all road race classes" bit and yes appendix D defines a max of 10% ethanol in your petrol, ie the old E10 but I think that people will just start using E85 because its there, its cheap, easy to get, easier than AvGas and in the end it will become the norm.

I hope you're right. Currently it's even illegal in the classes allowed to use methanol as it doesn't match the definition of methanol fuel in the book.
The first step would be to put forward a remit permitting E85 in the methanol classes. That shouldn't raise too many waves.
There's a massive resistance to alcohol base fuels in the MNZ hierarchy due mainly to a perceived higher fire risk, ha....

I'd point out too that any machine using alcohol based fuel must carry "dangerous goods" or equivalent stickers.

[F5 Dave]

Not keen to spend much more time in the dyno room with methanol bike. Its horrid. Amazing cooling effect even on an old Brit nail. Uncanny.

[husaberg]

I hope you're right. Currently it's even illegal in the classes allowed to use methanol as it doesn't match the definition of methanol fuel in the book.
The first step would be to put forward a remit permitting E85 in the methanol classes. That shouldn't raise too many waves.
There's a massive resistance to alcohol base fuels in the MNZ hierarchy due mainly to a perceived higher fire risk, ha....

I'd point out too that any machine using alcohol based fuel must carry "dangerous goods" or equivalent stickers.

its not so much the higher fire risk, more the you can't see that they are on fire risk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku7TdLeEGsQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnDX4FpDAzQ

https://youtu.be/RwmfBp3U2Os?t=1m7s

[Flettner]

mine burns with a colour, add 15% petrol (ie E85) and add twostroke oil, there you have it, you know you are on fire with E85.

[Hemi Makutu]

If you look up the price that Methanex NZ sells the bulk industrial stuff for, you'll be shocked..
( US price 96 cents a gallon, or well under NZ $0.50 a litre).

[Grumph]

its not so much the higher fire risk, more the you can't see that they are on fire risk?


Solved that in the late 80's by putting a remit in requiring sidecars on methanol to add a minimum of 5% tolulene to the fuel.
Blended well, stayed in solution - and burned with a visible flame.
E85 to the best of my knowledge also burns with a visible flame.
It was always the sidecars crashing at wanganui and setting bales on fire that got up MNZ noses....

That rule - like others - has disappeared from the book. Probably because no one knew what it was for.

At the time there was a yank over here racing a chair. I got talking to him as he was involved in their formula extreme - which was open fuel when it started.
Pretty sure he went back and put the 5% toly in those rules too.