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View Full Version : cage drivers --sometimes they really cant see ya



FROSTY
4th October 2005, 21:43
I was stuck in a cage last night. Travelling down the norwestern crawlway at about 40km/h I decided to change lanes -Indicator on --a look in the mirror -all clear and I started to move over. A bike suddenly apeared in the gap between the cars 3 back from me.
Lucky for him I was watching my rear vision mirror the whole time.
My point is from a cagers point of view there was a clear gap in evenly moving lines of traffic.
Ya might wanna concider what the cage drivers actually can see when you're passing them

Motu
4th October 2005, 22:22
Done that alright - I keep a good eye on my mirrors,lane changes need to be planned well ahead so you don't get locked in the wrong lane.Check your mirrors,check again and there's a bike you never even knew was on the road,invisable behind other cars until he made his move.Make sure you are in their mirrors long enough for those in front to pick you up - cars change lanes too,it's not just the perogative of motorcycles.

Flyingpony
4th October 2005, 23:07
Very true, I'm careful when filtering and pick my moments and in the cage very aware of how quickly motorcycles can appear.

When lane changing, I try to make it obvious by having indicator on for at least three seconds, check mirrors, do head turning scan, check mirrors and then one more head scan encase momentarily both blind spots where hiding a bikie. Then it's a slow merge into desired lane with one final head scan half way while listening for any blasts of a horn. So far so good.

When waiting to cross an intersection, I'll actually still remain waiting if I've doubt there might be a bikie behind this vehicle approaching from the right which is about to turn left into my side street. Not all cage dwellers understand this pause, they think I'm a slow coach but we know better.

John
4th October 2005, 23:21
at intersections that are abit blind give way, saves the risk.

parsley
5th October 2005, 06:31
I understand that cages sometimes have limited vision, but that's still no excuse for not indicating before they change lanes!

FROSTY
5th October 2005, 06:50
I'm not arguing the rights or wrongs of the situation.
All Im saying is that there are times car drivers can't possibly see you and it is not a place anyone should be coming from anyways-like between lines of moving traffic

bugjuice
5th October 2005, 08:22
just don't split while the traffic is moving. problem solved.
I never split (merge back in) when the traffic gets up to 20kph.. anything more than that starts cutting down reaction and notice times of drivers. So merge back in, the split when the stop again.

Fryin Finn
5th October 2005, 09:02
Car drivers will say they didnt see you after taking you out simply because it convenient for them to say so to avoid a ticketing - most of them don't care :brick:

FROSTY
5th October 2005, 09:03
Finn-- aint arguing with ya there matey -

Postie
5th October 2005, 09:07
pepole who drive cars aswell as ride bikes seem to make much better car drivers.
How nice would it be if it was law that everyone must obtain at least a restricted motor bike licence before they can get a car licence.

James Deuce
5th October 2005, 09:10
Car drivers will say they didnt see you after taking you out simply because it convenient for them to say so to avoid a ticketing - most of them don't care :brick:

Like on Sunday, eh Finn? At least he looked uncomfortable when he saw us on the side of the road opposite Caltex Rimutaka.

ManDownUnder
5th October 2005, 09:26
pepole who drive cars aswell as ride bikes seem to make much better car drivers.
How nice would it be if it was law that everyone must obtain at least a restricted motor bike licence before they can get a car licence.

yep - I reckon two years in the saddle should be mandatory for everyone. Learn 'em what can happen if things go wrong...

It'd teach a lot of people all about the road surface and other "unexpected" threats too if they were more vulnerable (people stepping out off footpaths, cars nosing out into traffic, etc etc etc)
MDU

Lou Girardin
5th October 2005, 09:30
This is the main reason I use high beam in traffic. The number of cagers that start to move, then veer back to the left when they see the lights is very comforting. When I use low beam, quite a few just keep on with the lane change.

duckman
5th October 2005, 09:45
"I was stuck in a cage last night. Travelling down the norwestern crawlway at about 40km/h I decided to change lanes -Indicator on --a look in the mirror -all clear and I started to move over. A bike suddenly apeared in the gap between the cars 3 back from me."

You didn't mention a head check ... Did you change lanes without looking behind you??
I thought this was simple road code stuff ... Relying on your mirrors alone sounds a bit dodge. :mellow:

FROSTY
5th October 2005, 09:53
point being--road was curving traffic was moving at the same speed--all 3 lanes -It was impossible to see furthur back--and quite frankly from a cagers point of view--why would I need to??
Im not saying the point of view is right -Im saying its something you need to be aware of-otherwise you could be the rightest dead man in town.
-to answer ya question--I saw the guy therefore yea I looked

TonyB
5th October 2005, 11:06
Just my opinion, but if you are lane splitting in moving trafic you are asking for trouble. I'm with BJ on this one- once it gets moving I merge back in. Cage drivers don't think, "hmm well my mirrors are clear, but I'd better be careful just incase a bike carrying a 50k speed advantage suddenly appears" The traffic around them can't squeeze through the gap between lanes, so why should they be thinking about it?

I firmly believe that a lot of bikers get taken out because they can do things that cage drivers either don't expect or can't comprehend. Plus cages have blind spots, and traffic hides you. Your best chance of survival is to behave like a car. Oh, and get out infront of the bastards!

TwoSeven
5th October 2005, 11:14
I was stuck in a cage last night. Travelling down the norwestern crawlway at about 40km/h I decided to change lanes -Indicator on --a look in the mirror -all clear and I started to move over. A bike suddenly apeared in the gap between the cars 3 back from me.
Lucky for him I was watching my rear vision mirror the whole time.
My point is from a cagers point of view there was a clear gap in evenly moving lines of traffic.
Ya might wanna concider what the cage drivers actually can see when you're passing them

This is what I was saying in an ealier post a few weeks back, but I believe from memory, someone claimed they could always see bikes in their cars and I was therefore not correct :)

Car drivers actually see very little, not only that, but they dont hear much either (one sense is completely removed and the other covered by bits of steel). It would be unreasonable for any biker to make an assumption that they are seen, even when the driver is looking straight at them. Its also important to remember that wearing a full-face lid also restricts vision and sound, so it can add up both ways.

FROSTY
5th October 2005, 13:06
folks --the idea of these posts is not to antagonise you lot --its to get ya thinking -what if??

Sniper
5th October 2005, 13:44
I agree with Finn on this one totally. Cage driders say whatever they need to in hopes of staying out of trouble.

Lou Girardin
5th October 2005, 14:58
Car drivers will say they didnt see you after taking you out simply because it convenient for them to say so to avoid a ticketing - most of them don't care :brick:

They're called "smidsy's" in the UK. Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.
There's an awareness campaign on about it now.

James Deuce
5th October 2005, 15:07
They're called "smidsy's" in the UK. Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.
There's an awareness campaign on about it now.

I was reading in Bike magazine last night how the Motorcycle Accident rate is at an all time low in comparison to head of capita, and the awareness campaign (which is a lot more vigourous than the ACC one here) is largely responsible, plus the increased availability of rider training.

Motu
5th October 2005, 15:16
They are not just picking on bikes,don't take it personaly.I had someone drive into the side of my Pajero from point blank range last week - ''Sorry,I didn't see you''.If they can't see a 2 ton brick they can't even see through then a bike doesn't stand a chance.

TonyB
5th October 2005, 15:17
I agree with Finn on this one totally. Cage driders say whatever they need to in hopes of staying out of trouble.
There is a denial thing that happens though. I've seen it happen.

I was driving my car along Colombo Street, right behind a bus. We got to one of those 'pedestrian island' things and the bus had to squeeze over to the left (I reckon those things are dangerous, but thats another rant for another day). As the Bus was doing this (before getting to the island) it passed a cyclist. Woman in parked car flings open her door without looking, cyclist tries to brake and avoid at the same time, resulting in the front end tucking under and catapaulting him into the side of the bus. He narrowly escaped going under the back wheels. It was fucken close and bloody scary to watch.

The woman in the car started off knowing it was her fault. Then as it dawned on her that this poor kid nearly died because she didn't look before opening her door, she talked herself out of it. In the end she was saying "it didn't happen because I opened my door". By the time the cops arrived she knew she had nothing to do with it. I made sure the cops knew the real story.

Her reapportioning blame wasn't a deliberate act on her part. I watched it happen. She found it so hard to accept that she had nearly killed someone that she reinvented the events of the crash. I'm sure if you asked her 10 minutes after the crash she would have genuinely and honestly believed that she didn't cause the accident.

It was interesting to watch the process happen.

TwoSeven
5th October 2005, 15:53
I dont agree with this 'sorry I didnt see you thing' from a different perspective. I mean, as a defensive driver, my view is 'what the fook was I doing putting my vehicle in a position where it can be in an incident'.

My view has always been, if you drive any vehicle to a point where you are relying on other road users actions (ie. them seeing you, them stopping, them not changing lanes without indicating), then you shouldnt be on the road because at the end of the day your actions are based only on chance which means you'll at some stage draw the losing hand.

Gremlin
5th October 2005, 16:34
All right, adding Frosty's and BJ posts together, there is something else people need to know.

I don't split in fast moving traffic, but in slow traffic on the motorway I do, but the lanes are also quite wide, so it is reasonably safe. I also filter quickly from one lane to another a bit on other roads like the Pakuranga highway.

But, I have noticed one factor that has slowed me down a bit. Travelling with the flow, there is not too much danger, just the usual stuff, make sure you aren't in blind spots, announce your prescence with cars beside you by being next to their windows for a sec or two (even if you have to be a bit close to the car in front) etc. Not a lot happens.

Then, up your speed 10-20k and change lanes a bit, find gaps in lanes, and suddenly you end up running into a lot more strife. Most cars will look at a lane change, then execute. In that time, you have popped into the lane and are right next to (or in) their "intended gap". Not saying its their fault. They looked, and when they saw, the gap was there. Then in a very short space of time, I filled it.

Riding with the traffic I have found is a lot safer, but not as much fun. Sure, there will still be cars causing problems, but there will be less of them.

madboy
5th October 2005, 16:53
People don't want to take responsiblity for their own actions when those very actions are the causative factor. How many people actually have an accident and say it was completely their fault?

Most drivers should see a bike if they are driving responsibly. FACT.
Bikes positioned in stupid places will often not be seen, even by responsible drivers. FACT.
Lane-splitting by its very definition puts you in a stupid place. FACT.

I choose to accept those risks. Others don't. It is statistically likely they will attend my funeral.

madboy
5th October 2005, 16:54
They looked, and when they saw, the gap was there. Then in a very short space of time, I filled it.That's why I aim for gaps cars don't want to fill.

FROSTY
11th December 2005, 22:18
Just relivening this
I think my origonal point is still valid.
sometimes a cager genuinely can't see you
And you can be the most right biker in the cemetry

Test Pilot
11th December 2005, 22:24
I hate to admit it but if been driving the car before and all of a sudden a bike has come from nowhere and i didnt see him, and being a biker that only uses a bike for transport im always looking for bikes, so it is possible! for people driving cars to just simply not see you even if they are aware of bikes