Braking, high speed low speed

[Jamiepo]

Ok, here is a bit of background ifo, I have been riding different types of biikes from about the age of 8 (CT 90 was the first :niceone: !!) and have not had a heck of a lot of on road, high speed experience. I had a CB 400 for about 6 months but used that mostly around town.
I need to know the proper way for braking before corners, I have the bad habit of favouring the rear brakes from years and years of beach and dune riding (not a good idea to use too much front brakes going down a dune!!!).
My experience tells me 50/50 at low speed ie round town. But at high speed I have no idea, I wanna say front/back: 20/80 depending on road surface, rain etc and kinda go with the way my bike ( when I get it) feels.
I spose that the type of bike matters and am pretty sure that I will get a GPX250.

So what is the best idea for me??

Thanks,
James

[Monsterbishi]

Personally, I haven't used the back brake on any of my bikes for about 5 years...

[Jamiepo]

For some reason using the front brake scares me!!! :crybaby: :crybaby: :argh:

[Monsterbishi]

It's something you're going to have to get over, the front brake provides over 90% of the bikes braking ability... The rears are there really only to help correct the bike in certain situations.

[M1CRO]

You answered your own question about which brake gives the most braking ability, sooooo.. it really will depend on how many km's you need to shave off prior to going around. Personally, if I need to adjust down in speed (slightly), I will consider chopping down one gear or touching the front brake.. if its a hard-out major, then both front and back (only very slightly) are coming on!! :) Otherwise I still tend to favour the front...

Around town, I have been known to "coast" up to an existing red-light with just the back brake on, or occasionally I have the odd "two" fingers around the front brake... Choice is yours but I am sure others will have a view :niceone:

[Korea]

It's something you're going to have to get over, the front brake provides over 90% of the bikes braking ability... The rears are there really only to help correct the bike in certain situations.

I agree totally with Monsterbishi, but here's why:

As you brake, all your weight moves forward which makes the back end lighter and therefore easier to lock-up. A skidding tyre will not slow you down or stop you as quickly. (anti-lock brakes, hello?)

For open road riding, my advice is to engage the back brake lightly as you engage the front brake, then forget about the back and just concentrate on what the front is doing.

Does this help?

[John]

as above, Front Front Front - its pretty hard to lock the front up - you haveto really try as long as your on a suitable surface, typically I brake in the corner to help steer the bike, I use the rear alittle bit in the wet but mainly the front as the rear is just to easy to lock and I find that its nice to have that little extra stablising brake power there if it needs to be called upon, it really will depend on your riding style, just remeber front front front!

[FROSTY]

mate--buy yaself a moto guzzi--then use any brake ya want (interated braking system)
seriously -as above --favour the front brake -if that scares you--go out somewhere quiet and practice untill it stops scaring ya.
in the wet -I prefer a more 50/50 braking action leading into heavy braking where I go to 70/30 front over rear .

[bugjuice]

ditto on frosty and the above. Going into a corner hot, the back brake will do pretty much sfa to scrub off enough speed. I've been in some tricky situations myself where I've misjudged a corner, and have yet to lock up the front wheel. If anything, let the engine do the braking for the back wheel as you down shift. Then you only need the rear braking setting up for the corner. Use the front brake and let off as you coast into the corner, as you reach the point where you see the exit of the corner, smoothly accelerate out of it. By using your back brake too much, you'll start to trail the rear in and could get it a wee bit sideways. Nothing wrong with that, and I sometimes do it myself, but it's far from an effective way of braking.

brake you habit before you go hooning round. Around town where you've got plenty of time to judge and stop, it doesn't matter which brake you use. But out in the open at a pace, you've got very little time to be making such mistakes..

I saw a an accident that was on one of those police crash investigator series. An inexperianced guy riding a motorbike thru an industrial area was doing about 80k in a 50 zone. A truck saw a clear road and crossed his path into a drive way. The bike came round the corner (if he wasn't speeding, the truck would have seen him), and he locked the back up, and there was no evidence that he even tried the front brake. Subsiquently, he smacked into the side and was killed. If he had grabbed a fist full of the front, he would have stopped in a quarter of the distance, and would have avoided the truck altogether.
Hate to put a downer on this, but the front brake is your friend..
And I'm far from saying your a bad rider or whatever. In fact, beach riding and dirt riding will give you more experiance in some areas, which others will never get. Just remember it's a different environment you're riding in now. And go easy in the wet too. You can lock up in the wet, so just nanna around. That's what I do..

[sAsLEX]

I only use my front, and two fingers nearly all the time.

[ZorsT]

I saw a an accident that was on one of those police crash investigator series. An inexperianced guy riding a motorbike thru an industrial area was doing about 80k in a 50 zone. A truck saw a clear road and crossed his path into a drive way. The bike came round the corner (if he wasn't speeding, the truck would have seen him), and he locked the back up, and there was no evidence that he even tried the front brake. Subsiquently, he smacked into the side and was killed. If he had grabbed a fist full of the front, he would have stopped in a quarter of the distance, and would have avoided the truck altogether.


We studied that crash in a motorbike course.

It was actually a 70k zone, and he wasn't speeding. But yes, he did lock up the back and slid right into the side of the truck. Very sad.

Front brake would have saved his life...

[bugjuice]

We studied that crash in a motorbike course.

It was actually a 70k zone, and he wasn't speeding. But yes, he did lock up the back and slid right into the side of the truck. Very sad.

Front brake would have saved his life...
thanx.. was a long time ago I saw that, so going from a faded memory.. just such a waste since it was an easy thing to do, to avoid the accident..

[vifferman]

Look, do some serious interdweeb surfing - there's tonnes of stuff on there.

As has been stated, the front brake supplies most of your stopping power, due to weight transfer and a larger surface area. But the back brake does have a role. If you apply the back brake before a corner, then the front, it settles the bike and makes for less front-end dive. Plus as long as the back brake isn't off the road, it does offer some retardation, and every little bit helps when you need to slow down in a hurry.
There are also situations where the back brake is superior, like slow-speed manouevres, where you can use the back brake like a rudder to help steer the bike, and using the front brake could dump you on your head.

Get over your fear of the front brake - practice using it HARD to stop. If you carry on going "I'm too scared!", you could find yourself ploughed into the back or side of a car, truck or pedestrian.

[Deano]

And brake on the straight before it's too late - (at least until you feel comfortable braking while cornering) - grabbing a handful of front or rear brake while tipping in to a corner is not recommended.

[el milanes]

It depends on the weight ratio over the two wheels. It's wrong just using one of the two. I'd say you should progressively increase the pressure on the front brake the more the wheight is moving forward. http://pdmec4.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/frenata/Braking%20paper/braking_new.htm

[SimJen]

Front brake only for 17+ years of riding. Mostly two fingers only too :)
I think it was Carl Fogarty who won 5 SBK Championships who said he never used a rear brake....something about a broken ankle that didn't work properly.
Mick Doohan used to ride with a rear thumb brake on the left bar (after he shagged his leg) but he mainly used it to calm the wheelspin in and out of corners......... :niceone:

[Rashika]

I have a slightly different view... but this is just my opinion okay :niceone:

On the Buell (sports style...almost!) i have barely touched the back brake, I'm actually having to practice using it a bit so I learn where the hell it is....
but... on the Virago (cruiser style) I used the back brake way more than the front or at times both together the same amount. The back brake on the V always gave me much better and controlled braking... maybe the front was just not very effective?
Dunno, but your braking may well be a little bike dependent as well
A[part from that yep agree with all thats been said...go and practice, thats the best thing

And WELCOME to KB :Punk: and the mad chch chapter :devil2:

[Monsterbishi]

It depends on the weight ratio over the two wheels. It's wrong just using one of the two. I'd say you should progressively increase the pressure on the front brake the more the wheight is moving forward. http://pdmec4.mecc.unipd.it/~cos/DINAMOTO/frenata/Braking%20paper/braking_new.htm

Nice maths, but, alas, in the real world, it's a different story, how long have you been riding?

[dawnrazor]

Same. I favour the front brake all the time, have the rear covered ibut generally only give it a tap in the wet at higher speeds.
In general I use the engine breaking to slow me down before corners etc, and the front to actually stop the bike or scrub off speed very quickly. The problem with braking to much before a corner is that you unsettle the bike and your progress through the corner is not smooth and progressive, as the suspension can still be returning the bike back to balance and loading and compression the springs. Al of which will effect the handling through the corner.
Engine braking, I love it - saves on pads and all, if you have ever folled a really good rider, you'll notice their brake light hardly ever comes on, and when it does ots to stop or a quick dab/

[Motu]

on the Virago (cruiser style) I used the back brake way more than the front or at times both together the same amount. The back brake on the V always gave me much better and controlled braking... maybe the front was just not very effective?
:


Cruisers have a rear weight bias - check out the brakes on a Harley,the rear rotor is a larger diameter than the front,the rear brake does quite a bit of work on these bikes,it's not just the riders fault for using rear brake.Dirt bikes have more weight to the rear as well,but more weight transfer with the longer soft suspn.On a gravel road my rear brake is smoking,I use plenty of front brake,but the rear is doing more than just slow the bike.

[Rashika]

Cruisers have a rear weight bias - check out the brakes on a Harley,the rear rotor is a larger diameter than the front,the rear brake does quite a bit of work on these bikes,it's not just the riders fault for using rear brake.

ahh cool :niceone: so it was the right thing to be doing...glad cos i did it for 10 years!
And NOW (with the Buell) I totally understand when those sports riders talk about only using thr front mostly

[Str8 Jacket]

And brake on the straight before it's too late - (at least until you feel comfortable braking while cornering) - grabbing a handful of front or rear brake while tipping in to a corner is not recommended.

Yep, totally agree. I managed to write my first bike off (GN250) by coming round a corner, freaking out and just hammered my front brake, mostly cause I panicked, but to be honest I don't really remember too much about what I did and didn't do at the time. I did however remember that most if not all of the problem was that I had hammered the front brake, so in turn developed a HUUGE front brake phobia. When I got the KR I had to start making myself use it, especially since I have no engine braking.
I totally agree about slowing down BEFORE hitting the corner, you can always accelerate slighty if you have to. Sometimes I get embarrased about how slow I take corners now, but I think its best to learn/get used to how to take corners and when where to brake etc before giving it balls and f*cking it up!

[el milanes]

Nice maths, but, alas, in the real world, it's a different story, how long have you been riding?
I've heard this many many times.... but imho motorbikes are mechanical devices designed by engineers according to a model of reality, and I think the best way to use them is the way they have been designed for. Would you trust more facts or someone's feelings? I suppose both, it depends on experience I agree. I've had a 50cc scooter for 8 years, a 200cc beverly for a year and my actual bike for another year. I've fallen many times on my first scooter mainly because of the front wheel loosing grip. The very first day because I used the front brake in a corner. I find motorbikes much safer. But in Europe scooters are widely used.

[dawnrazor]

I've heard this many many times.... but imho motorbikes are mechanical devices designed by engineers according to a model of reality, and I think the best way to use them is the way they have been designed for. Would you trust more facts or someone's feelings? I suppose both, it depends on experience I agree. I've had a 50cc scooter for 8 years, a 200cc beverly for a year and my actual bike for another year. I've fallen many times on my first scooter mainly because of the front wheel loosing grip. The very first day because I used the front brake in a corner. I find motorbikes much safer. But in Europe scooters are widely used.
the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.

[vifferman]

the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.
Yeah, sort of.
Wheels provide a gyroscopic balancing effect, and the larger/weightier they are the more this 'stabilising force'. However, it's probably more a factor of contact patch size (probably smaller on scooters), weight distribution (more rearward biased on scooters), tyre quality (scooterists who ride for economy-related reasons possible favour 'budget' rubber), and the steering geometry of the machine.
Let's face it, as most scooters are budget commuting machines, designed for modest speeds, they're unlikely to be set up with optimal handling in mind, and further more, they don't have a race heritage and the inherent testing/refining to draw upon.

[MisterD]

the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.

It's also quite a lot to do with the fact that there's bugger all weight on the front wheel of a scooter - everything mechanical plus the rider are right over the rear wheel - so the front is that much easier to lock up.

[mstriumph]

the wheel size of scooters has alot to do with their instability, not necessarily the front brake, I think the fact you fell off less once you got on a proper bike
has something to do with wheel size and stability then anything else.

scooters actually frighten me --- the little wheels, the fact the rider is not astride ...... i know its a personal choice but ....scarey!

[vifferman]

It's also quite a lot to do with the fact that there's bugger all weight on the front wheel of a scooter - everything mechanical plus the rider are right over the rear wheel - so the front is that much easier to lock up.

Ahem.........

However, it's probably more a factor of ... (blah blah blah)... weight distribution (more rearward biased on scooters)

[vifferman]

scooters actually frighten me --- the little wheels, the fact the rider is not astride ...... i know its a personal choice but ....scarey!
But at least you can wear a skirt on it, and ride in a civilised fashion, with your knees modestly pressed together... :whistle:

[M1CRO]

Sounds like you talking from experience vifferman! lol :sweatdrop

[RedRocks]

The ration of Front and rear brake to appliy depends on the bike. If you're on a street machine then it's propably 85% front and 15% back, on a crusier 75/25. Then the road and weather conditions... So think/look well ahead and apply progressive braking with both brakes... and be gentle with it....

[sAsLEX]

Yeah, sort of.
Wheels provide a gyroscopic balancing effect, and the larger/weightier they are the more this 'stabilising force'. However, it's probably more a factor of contact patch size (probably smaller on scooters), weight distribution (more rearward biased on scooters), tyre quality (scooterists who ride for economy-related reasons possible favour 'budget' rubber), and the steering geometry of the machine.
Let's face it, as most scooters are budget commuting machines, designed for modest speeds, they're unlikely to be set up with optimal handling in mind, and further more, they don't have a race heritage and the inherent testing/refining to draw upon.


a little wheel would be more prone to getting upset by say a pot hole or something as it will fall in to it more than say a proper 17 or 18 inch wheel

[TwoSeven]

I've always been taught to use 75/25 in the dry and you count it when you do it, so say to yourself, mirrors, signal (if req), front brake, back brake, gear, gear etc. It means you get them in the right order.

Trick is not to apply both brakes at the same time - one must follow the other.

For the wet, its 50/50 ratio, but you do back brake first.

The reason you do one brake before the other is because you need to move the weight onto the wheel thats doing the majority of the braking, for wet riding this will result in the entire bike squatting evenly and becoming more stable.

As per normal, the amount of pressure you apply is up to the situation, and you should not be locking any wheels.

[limbimtimwim]

Yep, totally agree. I managed to write my first bike off (GN250) by coming round a corner, freaking out and just hammered my front brake, mostly cause I panicked, but to be honest I don't really remember too much about what I did and didn't do at the time. I did however remember that most if not all of the problem was that I had hammered the front brake, so in turn developed a HUUGE front brake phobia.Not saying it's what happened to you that fateful day but: I understand if you brake real (re: too) hard initially, you could compress the front forks all the way. No suspension travel left means any bump at all could cause the wheel to skip off the ground, it stops rotating straight away (No road to keep it spinning, so the brake only needs to overcome the mass of the spinning wheel, not the entire bike) and once it touches back down it's not turning. No gyroscopic forces to keep you upright, no wheel rotating to take you around the corner.

And then the ouch happens. My first and only off on a bike happened while on a straight and grabbing (Rather than applying) the brake too hard on an unfamiliar bike. Squeak, tip, crash, ouch.

If the braking is progressive, I imagine you can get away with applying the brakes very firmly as long as you don't run out of suspension travel. I think I've lifted the back wheel twice now on the same bit of road when people step out and didn't see/hear me coming. I don't know what that says about the rear suspension on Mr Honda :-). That intersection outside the post office on the corner of Victoria and Manners st, people just step out.

I've solved the 'hearing me' problem however.. ;-)

[kerryg]

Was up at the hairpin at Pukekohe watching some racing and noticed that the best/fastest guys were doing very little engine braking. Hard to tell exactly 'cos I could only observe them over the last 50-100 metres or so of the back straight but it seemed like they were hard on the brakes but not downchanging. I had a little "off" at that very spot at a trackday (ran onto the grass and ignominiously dumped my bike at low speed) and the main cause (apart from incompetence, and very tiny testicles) was that I missed a downchange and ran out of brakes 'cos I was relying on the engine braking. Sooo...the point (you may fairly ask) ??....Well I'm wondering how you faster guys coordinate downshifting and use of the brakes in a situation like on the back straight of Puke where you're hitting the 100metre mark at (I dunno) 200km plus?? Do you drop it a cog or two and leave the clutch engaged while braking furiously with your right hand..or do you just grab the brakes and disengage the clutch throughout the whole braking manouevre, meanwhile dropping it down through the gears so that you're in the right gear for when you wind the power back on?

[Jamiepo]

THats one thing my father always told me, "why use your engine to do most of your braking when the BRAKES were actually designed to do that exact thing!!!" But that was for off road riding and I suppose road riding is different.

[WRT]

Using the engine as a brake means you are pretty much gauranteed not to lock up the wheel (not completely, at least, so long as the engine keeps turning), so is very handy on steep descents off road. On the road, especially on bigger bikes, engine braking can be enough to make the back wheel slide. Still a whole different kettle of fish to a rear wheel lockup tho.

Some bikes have mechanisms in the clutch to help minimize this. For example, the TLR's have a screw-like system that when you back off the throttle from high revs (or shift down to early), it unwinds and allows the clutch to slip slightly, and then when you nail it again, it tightens up again. Called a "back-torque limiter" or some such wanky term, but does work nicely. Gives a pretty good balance of lots of engine braking (I for one quite like it, not only is it an effective method of bleeding off speed, but it makes your v-twin put out a fantastic sound) without making your wheel lock up.

[sAsLEX]

Was up at the hairpin at Pukekohe watching some racing and noticed that the best/fastest guys were doing very little engine braking. Hard to tell exactly 'cos I could only observe them over the last 50-100 metres or so of the back straight but it seemed like they were hard on the brakes but not downchanging. I had a little "off" at that very spot at a trackday (ran onto the grass and ignominiously dumped my bike at low speed) and the main cause (apart from incompetence, and very tiny testicles) was that I missed a downchange and ran out of brakes 'cos I was relying on the engine braking. Sooo...the point (you may fairly ask) ??....Well I'm wondering how you faster guys coordinate downshifting and use of the brakes in a situation like on the back straight of Puke where you're hitting the 100metre mark at (I dunno) 200km plus?? Do you drop it a cog or two and leave the clutch engaged while braking furiously with your right hand..or do you just grab the brakes and disengage the clutch throughout the whole braking manouevre, meanwhile dropping it down through the gears so that you're in the right gear for when you wind the power back on?


slipper clutches that things like the zx10r have allow you to muff the downchange and stop the rear wheel locking even if the engine is not spinning fast enough

[kerryg]

slipper clutches that things like the zx10r have allow you to muff the downchange and stop the rear wheel locking even if the engine is not spinning fast enough


Yes, sure, but that's kind of tangential to the issue that has got me a bit puzzled. It looked like, when I was watching the guys braking
very hard at the end of the straight at Puke, that they were not using any engine braking or at most, very little. I say that because I could not hear them downshifting . There seem 2 possibilities: (1) that they had already downshifted to (say) 4th and that they didn't worry about further shifting down, relying on the brakes only, while remaining in 4th gear until they had scrubbed enough speed off to drop the bike into the hairpin (and only then making their downshift to 1st or 2nd or (2) that they disengaged the clutch continuously while braking and downshifted several gears while the clutch was disengaged and then engaged the clutch as they powered out of the turn.

I don't pretend to understand all the physics involved but braking very hard from very high speed to probably 20kms/hour with the clutch disengaged or while remaining in a high gear seems somehow wrong (don't ask me why)...yet it seemed that that was what they were doing

[TwoSeven]

Was up at the hairpin at Pukekohe watching some racing and noticed that the best/fastest guys were doing very little engine braking. Hard to tell exactly 'cos I could only observe them over the last 50-100 metres or so of the back straight but it seemed like they were hard on the brakes but not downchanging. I had a little "off" at that very spot at a trackday (ran onto the grass and ignominiously dumped my bike at low speed) and the main cause (apart from incompetence, and very tiny testicles) was that I missed a downchange and ran out of brakes 'cos I was relying on the engine braking. Sooo...the point (you may fairly ask) ??....Well I'm wondering how you faster guys coordinate downshifting and use of the brakes in a situation like on the back straight of Puke where you're hitting the 100metre mark at (I dunno) 200km plus?? Do you drop it a cog or two and leave the clutch engaged while braking furiously with your right hand..or do you just grab the brakes and disengage the clutch throughout the whole braking manouevre, meanwhile dropping it down through the gears so that you're in the right gear for when you wind the power back on?

Well I use a funny old technique unique to me - so i'll just post it up for discussion only (there are better ways i'm sure the others will point out) :)

To me it all depends on the type of bike and the style of track. For inline-4s its all about throttle control rather than brakes, use the brake to scrub excess speed rather than to stop the bike. Generally full on braking occurs when you have a longish straight followed by a more than 45 deg. corner (such as a 90 or 180), otherwise its either just throttle control thru the bends or maybe a little bit of brake. Sets of twisties generally have an average speed thru them, so you need to know how to work the throttle to get the correct varience.

When you do have to do hard braking there are various techniques depending on how (or if) you were taught. Americans and Aussies tend to favour blipping (because its taught in the superbike school), whereas many don't (like me). I'm off the old KR style where I use the clutch to feel the engine and control engine braking/power delivery - I also shift multiple gears at the same time - it means I can be very precise with the throttle (just set and forget). I like to always have drive on both wheels, so I never ride with the clutch lever pulled in so far that the rear wheel is in freeplay.

On tight corners I do the heaviest braking when the bike is upright, after I have set my body position for the corner (what I call my apex position), then, will the reminants of the speed is being scrubbed off I'll change down to the gear I need and half let out the clutch so the engine is either free (i've got the correct road speed for the rear wheel in the new gear) or its pushing back (engine braking - too much road speed for the new gear) - the amount of push back I get determines how much brake lever I use to balance the speed for the gear. I use what could be called a half shift, that is, I pull in the clutch only til the load is taken off the engine and feather it very slightly between each gear (just to feel the engine - its how I know if I need to go up/down another gear). On a honda gearbox I've found I can set the throttle (I have all my shift points marked on the speedo - but I know them by feel/sound) - just need to be precise and heavy with the foot and the amount of resistance it gives back helps determine engine speed (there is a certain pressure you need for it to snick - if I need more, I know it wont change).

The drawback is that it favours the tighter or more precise corners over the looser ones where I may need to carry a higher corner speed (higher gear) and balance the bike with a little bit of brake drag (to get the bike to squat). The main reason I brought my 250 inline-4 was to get back this corner entry/mid corner speed - which took about a year or so for me to learn to my satisfaction. The 250 also develops the need to feel the engine and not rely on the brake so much. I've found having that feel on the 250 ideal because if you let the clutch out too hard (say at 18k rpm instead of 14k) you can end up with a serious case of bent valves. 125 riders will tell you about clutch control as well :)

I'm not really a fan of slipper clutches, I can see the benifit of having one for the odd time you bugger up the gear change by not using the feel properly, but as far as I can see they are only of use if they are dialed in correctly and that is a bit of a chore to do last time I looked. I guess thats something else I need to experiment with :)

Also, sometimes I've found that its way better to shut back the throttle gradually from an earlier point than it is to hit the brakes hard later (I dont use braking markers - only turn in points) - sometimes I decide to overbrake slightly and accelerate harder into the apex, or I may want a higher entry speed so may not brake as hard - that depends on whats happening around me. The latter one does require correct body position and strength, because I have to be able to let go the brake and shift weight to get the arm leverage to allow the correct tip-in before the radius is fooked - if not its a visit to the countryside (having RSI - this is what I have the most problem with - i'm often not strong enough to turn the bike as I want to).

Finally, I think its not actually about knowing how to slow down, its about knowing how to speed up. When I learn a new circuit, I always ride it at half speed using only the throttle, just keep picking up the speed until I absolutely must brake, then I try a little bit more, then a tab of brake. You just keep picking up the speed and tabbing the brakes harder each time moving the corner entry spot in closer. Might have to do 20 odd laps (a days worth) to get it, but at the end you'll have your lines and turns and brakes all sorted and you'll even have consistency (hopefully). When you pick up the speed for the next corner, do it at the correct corner exit point, not half way along the straight, or you will get into the lazy habbit of not exiting the corners correctly. On the rare times I do track days or ride, you'll see me in C grade riding like a granny with one hand on my lap - it means I'm working things out :)

Just my two cents worth. I wouldnt recommend using anything I've said, its only there as food for thought. Attending a race school is perhaps the safest way of learning - I believe many clubs run these from time to time :)

[mstriumph]

But at least you can wear a skirt on [a scooter], and ride in a civilised fashion, with your knees modestly pressed together... :whistle:

you mean you DON'T wear a skirt on a bike?? :confused:

[zeRax]

front brake for the win, thou im finding with the zxr as opposed to the gn im using a bit more back brake and having alot more control in emergency stopping etc using both combined, where as the gn i could full tit front and itd just suck the shocks up and id lurch forward and stop, thou id only be going slow on the gn unlike the zxr hohoho

[fishb8nz]

This is my spin on non-trick, regular road-riding. Works for cars too, apart from the front/rear thing.

Best braking aid is your eyes, for observation ahead of you, to help you anticipate.

Brake pads are much easier to change than engine parts, so use your brakes.

Brake in a straight line.

Decelerate by closing in the throttle. Change down each gear when you get to the appropriate speed, blipping the throttle at each change. This gives smooth changes with "mechanical sympathy" for the bike

If you need to stop more quickly, give the front a squeeze and change down to match your speed. You'll just know this instinctively, after a while, and won't need to look at your spedo or anything

Same advice as everyone one else, front brakes with a touch of rear, if required.

Good idea to give the rear a good try out, every now and then, to check it out and avoid it siezing up through lack of use. You can do this at low speed.

In a car, I brake, then double-declutch on the down shift or sometimes, just blip the throttle while passing through neutral, to equalise the engine and shaft speeds.