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haydes55
25th December 2016, 10:11
I have a question for the kiwibiker employment boffins.

With these new fandangled mondayised holidays which fall on a weekend... What about people who work the weekend? I work Saturday through Wednesday. So I work both the Sunday and monday. I get a paid day off today (obviously) but working tomorrow is time and a half. Because Christmas is observed Tuesday, and I'll be working, will I get time and a half?

Can't find this info online anywhere

Virago
25th December 2016, 11:13
30 seconds of googling... :bleh:

https://www.employment.govt.nz/leave-and-holidays/public-holidays/public-holidays-falling-on-a-weekend/

jasonu
25th December 2016, 14:10
You fat cunts get way to many days off as it is. Try being a business owner that has to pay out many weeks of time off per employee per year. It is no wonder shit costs so much in NZ.

Tazz
25th December 2016, 14:32
1.5 time
Day in lieu (in most cases)


You fat cunts get way to many days off as it is. Try being a business owner that has to pay out many weeks of time off per employee per year. It is no wonder shit costs so much in NZ.

I agree to a point, but it's still a (fair) trade off on profit vs holidays. If the overheads are out of hand you just stay closed or (for a small business) run the ship yourself.

Some cafes do a 15% etc surplus to help cover the cost of being open to provide their services.

onearmedbandit
25th December 2016, 14:58
You fat cunts get way to many days off as it is. Try being a business owner that has to pay out many weeks of time off per employee per year. It is no wonder shit costs so much in NZ.

Cafes over here bleat about that a lot. As they drive away in their AMG63 merc. Must be damn hard.

george formby
25th December 2016, 16:02
Cafes over here bleat about that a lot. As they drive away in their AMG63 merc. Must be damn hard.

It is for most provincial small restaurants. Trade is often seasonal and they really struggle to make 15% net profit before taxes. Usually owner/operators chasing a dream but buying a very low paid job and working 12 hour days. Big city 100 seater+ businesses have fairly steady year round trade and work to similar margins but the increased size makes it Mercedes possible if they are good operators. Probably a second hand Merc, though.

Most wee restaurants / cafes run at a significant loss on public holidays even with a surcharge. They only open to keep good faith with their customers and often get pilloried for the surcharge. Many don't bother with it because the grief from tight arsed, self centered customers is too much to bear. If the average wage is $18, on a public holiday the owner is paying out $45 p/h. Gotta sell a lot of coffee and muffins to justify that.

onearmedbandit
25th December 2016, 16:42
It is for most provincial small restaurants. Trade is often seasonal and they really struggle to make 15% net profit before taxes. Usually owner/operators chasing a dream but buying a very low paid job and working 12 hour days. Big city 100 seater+ businesses have fairly steady year round trade and work to similar margins but the increased size makes it Mercedes possible if they are good operators. Probably a second hand Merc, though.

Most wee restaurants / cafes run at a significant loss on public holidays even with a surcharge. They only open to keep good faith with their customers and often get pilloried for the surcharge. Many don't bother with it because the grief from tight arsed, self centered customers is too much to bear. If the average wage is $18, on a public holiday the owner is paying out $45 p/h. Gotta sell a lot of coffee and muffins to justify that.

That argument can hold true for any provincial retail style businesses. But there are cafes that charge extra on public holidays here in ChCh where I personally know the owners are making a very decent living. They charge the surcharge because they're in it for the money. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against making a profit and a decent one at that, people who put it all on the line and get the rewards deserve it. But to be crying hardship from 'up on high' is a pisstake.

Oakie
25th December 2016, 18:35
If you work the weekend, you observe the holidays on the days that they fall. If you don't, they are pushed into the week
Examples:
At our work we have a chunk of people who work Sunday to Wednesday. They observe the holidays on Sunday and Monday, ie, the actual days
We have another chunk who work Monday to Friday. We observe Chistmas Day (Sunday) on Tuesday ... Monday is Boxing Day and doesn't move. 'Mondayised' is a bit of a misnomer in that case.
We have a third group who work Wednesday to Saturday and they don't get any benefit from the public holidays.

Pain in the arse for payroll types like me but at least I have a nice clever rostering system that works it all out for me now.

Your specific question ... Tuesday for you is just a normal day as you will have had the benefits on Sunday and Monday.

BMWST?
25th December 2016, 21:19
You fat cunts get way to many days off as it is. Try being a business owner that has to pay out many weeks of time off per employee per year. It is no wonder shit costs so much in NZ.
do your own work then.

george formby
26th December 2016, 08:30
But to be crying hardship from 'up on high' is a pisstake.

I totally agree. Nothing rips my nightie more than the hollow souls who cannot see past their burgeoning bank balance.

WristTwister
26th December 2016, 09:55
Most wee restaurants / cafes run at a significant loss on public holidays even with a surcharge. They only open to keep good faith with their customers and often get pilloried for the surcharge. Many don't bother with it because the grief from tight arsed, self centered customers is too much to bear. If the average wage is $18, on a public holiday the owner is paying out $45 p/h. Gotta sell a lot of coffee and muffins to justify that.


$18 an hour for cafe workers? :killingme

The managers would be lucky to get paid that.


Anyway, OP; If you're working Sunday and Monday (and they are days you usually work), you should get time and a half + alternative leave days. You won't get anything extra for working Tuesday (Xmas Day Observed), as you already got paid your entitlements on Xmas day.

jasonu
27th December 2016, 05:28
$18 an hour for cafe workers? :killingme

The managers would be lucky to get paid that.


Anyway, OP; If you're working Sunday and Monday (and they are days you usually work), you should get time and a half + alternative leave days. You won't get anything extra for working Tuesday (Xmas Day Observed), as you already got paid your entitlements on Xmas day.

So working a public holiday gets you double time and a half. Sign me up!!!

Dad used to work for the Auckland Star. Once a month he did the graveyard Saturday night shift 11pm to 4am that paid 8hrs at triple time. There were similar other perks like extra money just for not being late 30 days straight and plenty of extra days off and lots of extra sick leave. They went broke.

Oakie
27th December 2016, 07:14
So working a public holiday gets you double time and a half. Sign me up!!! .

Not necessarily. If the public holiday on which you work is not a day on which you'd 'normally' work, you do get T1.5 but no Alternative Holiday entitlement. This is why a true casual employee should never get an alternative holiday ... because they don't have normal work days. The thing is though that the Holidays Act does not define what 'normal' is. It is left up to employers to decide. At ours we say its a normal day if the person had worked that day on 3 out out of the last 4 weeks. A test used in law though is 'had it not been a public holiday, would the person have worked?

pritch
27th December 2016, 11:57
I travelled south from Orere on boxing day and most of the cafe's I would normally use were closed: the one at Pirongia, Bosco's and Wheels both at Taumarunui. The BP one at Te Kuiti was open but I don't normally use that. The first one of "mine" that was open was the Fat Pigeon at PioPio. The Fat Pigeon was doing a roaring trade, cars everywhere, I wasn't stopping.

The surcharge is a relatively new phenomenon. Previously the overtime was just factored in to the years figures. My local pub decided he wouldn't have a surcharge, he wouldn't open on holidays. But he went broke. I'll be interested to see what the new publican does.

Virago
28th December 2016, 11:56
It hurts even more when you've got staff "on call", as they're not actually generating income unless they're called out.

On call staff are deemed to be working. I pay my staff ordinary time for the public holiday, plus ordinary time during a call-out (effectively double time for the time actually worked), and they then get a day off in lieu.

It's essentially a bit of a perk, and as such there's no shortage of volunteers to be on call, which makes it easier to manage.

Oakie
28th December 2016, 16:22
It hurts even more when you've got staff "on call", as they're not actually generating income unless they're called out.

On call staff are deemed to be working. I pay my staff ordinary time for the public holiday, plus ordinary time during a call-out (effectively double time for the time actually worked), and they then get a day off in lieu.

It's essentially a bit of a perk, and as such there's no shortage of volunteers to be on call, which makes it easier to manage.

Not suggesting you should do it but legally if one of those one call peiople is called into work and does say three hours instead of say the 8 hours they'd get for the public holiday, you are only obliged to pay the three hours (at time and a half) and not pay for any other part of the public holiday (because they haven't had a holiday because they worked). They do still get the alternative holiday of course.

Virago
28th December 2016, 17:28
Not suggesting you should do it but legally if one of those one call peiople is called into work and does say three hours instead of say the 8 hours they'd get for the public holiday, you are only obliged to pay the three hours (at time and a half) and not pay for any other part of the public holiday (because they haven't had a holiday because they worked). They do still get the alternative holiday of course.

Yep, I'm aware of that. For me though it's an issue of financial fairness. Full-time workers who only work for a short time on a public holiday and who are paid for time worked only, are essentially forced to take the remainder of the day as unpaid leave - they end up with a smaller pay for that week. Sure they get another day off in lieu, but another holiday doesn't pay the bills. It's an unfair consequence of the Holidays Act, and I would rather wear the cost of an extra day's pay to keep staff happy.

jasonu
28th December 2016, 18:20
Not suggesting you should do it but legally if one of those one call peiople is called into work and does say three hours instead of say the 8 hours they'd get for the public holiday, you are only obliged to pay the three hours (at time and a half) and not pay for any other part of the public holiday (because they haven't had a holiday because they worked). They do still get the alternative holiday of course.

and end up with a bunch of disgruntled employees that don't give a fuck anymore.

Oakie
28th December 2016, 19:41
and end up with a bunch of disgruntled employees that don't give a fuck anymore.

Yep. For people who have done a small amount of work on a day that should have been a public holiday we have in the past always paid the worked hours at T1.5 and then made up the balance of the hours that they would have got for the public holiday at the normal rate ... e.g. 3. hours T 1.5 and 5 hours ordinary time if it was supposed to be an 8 hour day off.

Daffyd
28th December 2016, 23:01
Cafes over here bleat about that a lot. As they drive away in their AMG63 merc. Must be damn hard.

I've never seen a cafe driving an AMG63 Merc. Must be an interesting spectacle... :yes:

Oakie
29th December 2016, 08:05
I've never seen a cafe driving an AMG63 Merc. Must be an interesting spectacle... :yes:

Never heard of a cafe racer ... ?

Daffyd
29th December 2016, 12:10
Never heard of a cafe racer ... ?

:laugh: 12 characters.