Lower Speed Tolerances - Whodathunkit

[TheDemonLord]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457516303591


Eighty-four young adult participants drove under conditions where they could be fined for travelling 1, 6, or 11 km/h over a 50 km/h speed-limit. Stricter speed enforcement led to greater subjective workload and significant decrements in peripheral object detection. These data indicate that the benefits of reduced speeding with stricter enforcement may be at least partially offset by greater mental demands on drivers, reducing their responses to safety-critical stimuli on the road.

Apparently looking at your Speedometer instead of the road decreases your hazard identification and response times.

I should note that this is a small study with a limited sample size (only young adults) - but it does suggest that what drivers have been telling the policy makers for years has a rather large nugget of truth to it.

[Moi]

Speed is a more objective result - you were doing 53km/h, the instrument indicates that... Looking at other aspects of driving introduces a level of subjectivity - just how to you decide when a driver's actions are "inappropriate" or "dangerous"? If you want to make a prosecution stick then being totally objective probably removes the chances for a barrister to get the driver off on a technicality...

However, the more subjective assessments may well be the assessments which might lead to a lower road toll...

[TheDemonLord]

Speed is a more objective result - you were doing 53km/h, the instrument indicates that... Looking at other aspects of driving introduces a level of subjectivity - just how to you decide when a driver's actions are "inappropriate" or "dangerous"? If you want to make a prosecution stick then being totally objective probably removes the chances for a barrister to get the driver off on a technicality...

However, the more subjective assessments may well be the assessments which might lead to a lower road toll...

I agree in part, but for me this comes down to lazy policing - its far more easy to say 55 km/h with a radar result therefore ticket.

And so long as they are issuing tickets, they are 'doing something' about the problem, and they can give the brass nice graphs to show that 'they are making a difference'.

[caspernz]

Meh, none of this surprises me really. I'm mildly amused why so many feel the need to "do the limit plus the prevailing tolerance, minus 1 km/h" as if just doing the limit or flowing with the traffic at 5 km/h under is a chore...:laugh:

Make it a habit to travel at the limit and it becomes second nature, but that's just not manly enough I suppose...:rolleyes:

[Moi]

I agree in part, but for me this comes down to lazy policing - its far more easy to say 55 km/h with a radar result therefore ticket.

And so long as they are issuing tickets, they are 'doing something' about the problem, and they can give the brass nice graphs to show that 'they are making a difference'.

Precisely...

[old slider]

I find it difficult to maintain the exact speed limit and find that travelling in unison with the other traffic much better (easier) on my concentration and allows me to focus on whats happening rather than continuously checking the speedo and trying to make any corrections. Cell phones and those who struggle to keep appropriate following distances are more of a worry than being a few clicks over some specified speed, I often see 100kmh road signs in country road areas where 70km is a more appropriate speed.

[jasonu]

I ignore the 4km tolerance myself in the interest of safety but was forced to take notice of it when I have had a cop following me on a couple of occasions. It was quite scary having to ride looking at the speedo most of the time. I was actually in town which I think is more dangerous when doing it as there are many more hazards far more closer than on the open road.

Lucky you didn't feel the pressure to speed up and crash.

[swbarnett]

Make it a habit to travel at the limit and it becomes second nature, but that's just not manly enough I suppose...:rolleyes:
I suppose you'd be quite happy with being told which end of the bus you're allowed to sit in based on your skin colour?

[Akzle]

Meh, none of this surprises me really. I'm mildly amused why so many feel the need to "do the limit plus the prevailing tolerance, minus 1 km/h" as if just doing the limit or flowing with the traffic at 5 km/h under is a chore...:laugh:

Make it a habit to travel at the limit and it becomes second nature, but that's just not manly enough I suppose...:rolleyes:

i've been largely exceeding the posted limit for the most of my xmas driving.
seen a half dozen cops on the road. (3 mopping up some idiot(s)) and more recently 2 on aucklands western ("temporarily 80"), both of which i passed at ~95 with aught so much as a wave.
didn't hear any wankery about a 4km tolerance. and the highest road toll. wunnit?

[george formby]

"Make it a habit to stick to the speed limit..".

I'm not one for becoming habitual on the road but this statement struck a chord.
About 50%of my daily commute is on a posted 80kmh road. With the tourist traffic, Nana's and Grandpa's, trucks etc, the 100kmh stretch is usually about 80kmh, too.
I have to make a concerted effort to get my speed up to 100kmh when I get the chance, to avoid being "that guy" holding everyone up, the daily commute has turned me into a tootler.

A decent ride on our splendidly twisty roads soon gets me sorted, though. And the beauty of a bike is the ability to be really naughty, briefly.

[caseye]

I ignore the 4km tolerance myself in the interest of safety but was forced to take notice of it when I have had a cop following me on a couple of occasions. It was quite scary having to ride looking at the speedo most of the time. I was actually in town which I think is more dangerous when doing it as there are many more hazards far more closer than on the open road.

Serious question.
You ride a big bike now.
Yet here you tell us that when being followed by the Police you had to keep looking at your speedo, what for?
do you not know what speed your bike is doing at particular revs, in each gear?
Do you not know approximately how fast you are going by the simple expedient of looking at your surroundings the road side furniture, the traffic in front of you and across from you and know to within a k or so what speed you are doing?
Yep, you have really learned a lot since growing up and getting into your big boys pants.
Fuck me, someone put me out of my misery.
This knob can't tell when to brake, when to avoid approaching animals, where there might be black/any! ice, yet they don't need to improve their riding skills, because they know all they need to know about motorcycling.
Worse he stiffens up and starts watching the dials when there is a nice Policeman behind them. What about the kids on the footpath, the stray dogs coming at you from all diretions, what about the traffic lights that have just gone yellow/Orange!
Mr Policeman just wants to know that you can ride competently, I'd wager that any practiced copper will pick you for exactly what you are. An ACCIDENT waiting to happen.
Get off our roads.

[Scuba_Steve]

What? lower speed tolerances & higher inforcement doesn't work :shit:
Who would have thought ay, I mean with all these highly successful low tolerance holiday periods they've been running the last few years :innocent:

[Swoop]

...they are 'doing something' about the problem, and they can give the brass nice graphs to show that 'they are making a difference'.

I'd disagree.
The graphs are showing what "they" are doing isn't working.
Period.

Dumb people doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results = mentally retarded fuckwits forming policy in gubbinment departments.


Perhaps they could start with driving/vehicle operator skills?




It's nice to know that there is a 4kmh tolerance happening. Is there? I've seen nothing to that effect, so 130 is the normal average to maintain on the open roads.

[caspernz]

I suppose you'd be quite happy with being told which end of the bus you're allowed to sit in based on your skin colour?

No I'll sit where the hokey pokey ice cream is being served. You missed the point chap...

[swbarnett]

No I'll sit where the hokey pokey ice cream is being served. You missed the point chap...
What I took your post to mean was that you're happy doing whatever your "betters" tell you to do, irrespective of wether the stated reason makes sense or not. Was I wrong?

[caspernz]

What I took your post to mean was that you're happy doing whatever your "betters" tell you to do, irrespective of wether the stated reason makes sense or not. Was I wrong?

Not at all, the main premise being that staring at a speedo regularly is a chore. To me that's nonsense, cruising along near the limit shouldn't be difficult for an experienced rider/driver.

But hokey pokey is a good ice cream flavor...:mellow:

[TheDemonLord]

Not at all, the main premise being that staring at a speedo regularly is a chore. To me that's nonsense, cruising along near the limit shouldn't be difficult for an experienced rider/driver.

But hokey pokey is a good ice cream flavor...:mellow:

Cruising near the limit is fine - however how much leniency is 'near'

What the study indicates is that the smaller the leniency, the more pressure is placed on the driver, resulting in a decrease in situational awareness and peripheral hazard identification.

I'd be interested in further studies - I suspect there is a sweet spot - where most drivers are relaxed, but is not too permissive - my gut tells me it will be around 10-20 kph for the open road and 5-10 kph for residential.

[TheDemonLord]

I'd disagree.
The graphs are showing what "they" are doing isn't working.
Period.

Dumb people doing the same thing over and over yet expecting different results = mentally retarded fuckwits forming policy in gubbinment departments.


Perhaps they could start with driving/vehicle operator skills?




It's nice to know that there is a 4kmh tolerance happening. Is there? I've seen nothing to that effect, so 130 is the normal average to maintain on the open roads.

That was my point :msn-wink:

[caspernz]

Cruising near the limit is fine - however how much leniency is 'near'

What the study indicates is that the smaller the leniency, the more pressure is placed on the driver, resulting in a decrease in situational awareness and peripheral hazard identification.

I'd be interested in further studies - I suspect there is a sweet spot - where most drivers are relaxed, but is not too permissive - my gut tells me it will be around 10-20 kph for the open road and 5-10 kph for residential.

In my professional environment I find a driver who is happy to cruise at the posted limit, will invariably have a lower incident rate than one who habitually does "the limit plus the tolerance". The speed isn't the main problem though, there is a tendency for a hurry-up type of driver to also bend a few other road rules, thus shrinking the margin for error. So picture a tailgater, over the limit already, then being happy to make a risky overtake, sooner or later it goes wrong...

That said, ticketing drivers for 4 km/h over in good open road conditions is an excellent way to alienate the public from Mr Plod.

[pritch]

That said, ticketing drivers for 4 km/h over in good open road conditions is an excellent way to alienate the public from Mr Plod.

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.

[old slider]

In my professional environment I find a driver who is happy to cruise at the posted limit, will invariably have a lower incident rate than one who habitually does "the limit plus the tolerance". The speed isn't the main problem though, there is a tendency for a hurry-up type of driver to also bend a few other road rules, thus shrinking the margin for error. So picture a tailgater, over the limit already, then being happy to make a risky overtake, sooner or later it goes wrong...

That said, ticketing drivers for 4 km/h over in good open road conditions is an excellent way to alienate the public from Mr Plod.


Driving to Auckland and back I can save about $50 on the fuel costs, against when my son does the driving, granted we may have a slightly longer trip with me driving, but its probably not more than about 30 mins each way, plus it feels more relaxed, see a bit more of the country side and no doubt saves on tyres and brakes.

We are talking less than 10 kmh average speed difference.

edit: I am talking 4 wheels though.

[Moi]

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.

So... you drive/ride below 100km/h or above 104km/h?

one of these dawdle along and then bury the boot on the passing lane drivers?

:innocent:

[Big Dog]

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.
On the book of faeces there was a post being circulated that originated from one of the Auckland police stations.
Can't remember the copy, but along the lines of watch out, lower tolerance for speeding from first Saturday of December until last Sunday in January.


Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

[swbarnett]

Not at all, the main premise being that staring at a speedo regularly is a chore. To me that's nonsense, cruising along near the limit shouldn't be difficult for an experienced rider/driver.
Yeah, definitely got the wrong end of this one. I totally agree. For an experienced rider/driver it's not really an issue. However, I don't think there are actually too many of these around.

The real issue I have with speed limits is that they deny the fact that every driver/rider has their own optimal cruising speed for a given set of conditions. Speed limits force faster drivers/riders to slow down and slower ones to speed up, neither will improve road safety.


But hokey pokey is a good ice cream flavor...:mellow:
Totally agree with you there. Especially if it's a quality brand.

[5ive]

On the book of faeces there was a post being circulated that originated from one of the Auckland police stations.
Can't remember the copy, but along the lines of watch out, lower tolerance for speeding from first Saturday of December until last Sunday in January.


Sent from Tapatalk. DYAC

It was the one from last year: 2015/16. Some people just got upset and commented on/shared it, without even reading it properly:msn-wink:

There was nothing for this year, no media releases at all.

[caspernz]

Are they still doing that? I didn't see any publicity about it prior to Christmas, not that I was interested, I had no intention of driving between 100 and 104 anyway.

We got a heads-up at work about the 4 km/h tolerance from start of December thru to end of January.



Driving to Auckland and back I can save about $50 on the fuel costs, against when my son does the driving, granted we may have a slightly longer trip with me driving, but its probably not more than about 30 mins each way, plus it feels more relaxed, see a bit more of the country side and no doubt saves on tyres and brakes.

We are talking less than 10 kmh average speed difference.

edit: I am talking 4 wheels though.

Funny you say that, a relaxed pace which doesn't impede faster traffic, is more cost effective.



Yeah, definitely got the wrong end of this one. I totally agree. For an experienced rider/driver it's not really an issue. However, I don't think there are actually too many of these around.

The real issue I have with speed limits is that they deny the fact that every driver/rider has their own optimal cruising speed for a given set of conditions. Speed limits force faster drivers/riders to slow down and slower ones to speed up, neither will improve road safety.

So we can agree then that the 4 km/h tolerance and the hoohaa it creates is a bit of a nonsense. Yes we can argue the validity of how high speed limits are set, but that's not a discussion for the roadside with the enforcer, that's one for TPTB in their nice suits, with joe public making a lot of noise. Bit hard to argue for higher limits when the driving standard, not to mention good parts of the roading network, can't support faster speeds.

Some of the drama around varying "natural cruise speeds" that folks have, and I agree with that way of thinking, stems from ignorance and arrogance. If I'm trucking along and see a queue of vehicles forming behind me, I make an effort to make it nice and easy for them to come past me. Over holiday periods we tend to see lots of folks who only venture out of town over the Xmas break, and they treat the road to their destination as their own private driveway...

I can't help but think of the old joke from George Carlin. Drivers can be sorted into two groups, morons and maniacs. A moron being someone who wants to travel slower than me, and a maniac one who wants to go faster than me. Can't argue with his logic at times...

[neels]

I have noticed this a couple of times, when driving in the presence of a following police car while the lower tolerance is being enforced.

On the long straight boring roads it's no problem, just set the cruise control at 100 and steer. Once the road gets a bit more bendy and up/down hill it does require a lot more attention to the speedo to make sure you don't accidentally creep up to a deadly 105 coasting downhill, at which point I would have thought looking at where the next corner goes would make a much greater contribution to road safety.

[Moise]

I just ignore the lower tolerance BS. I've driven past a few cops at an indicated 110, which is more like 105, with no response. Plus it's only a $30 fine and 10 points.

Much safer to look where you're going than worry about a few km/h.

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[onearmedbandit]

Much safer to look where you're going than worry about a few km/h.



In an ideal world that would be the message that was given.

[FJRider]

Serious question.
You ride a big bike now.
Yet here you tell us that when being followed by the Police you had to keep looking at your speedo, what for?
do you not know what speed your bike is doing at particular revs, in each gear?
Do you not know approximately how fast you are going by the simple expedient of looking at your surroundings the road side furniture, the traffic in front of you and across from you and know to within a k or so what speed you are doing?
Yep, you have really learned a lot since growing up and getting into your big boys pants.
Fuck me, someone put me out of my misery.
This knob can't tell when to brake, when to avoid approaching animals, where there might be black/any! ice, yet they don't need to improve their riding skills, because they know all they need to know about motorcycling.
Worse he stiffens up and starts watching the dials when there is a nice Policeman behind them. What about the kids on the footpath, the stray dogs coming at you from all diretions, what about the traffic lights that have just gone yellow/Orange!
Mr Policeman just wants to know that you can ride competently, I'd wager that any practiced copper will pick you for exactly what you are. An ACCIDENT waiting to happen.
Get off our roads.

It never fails to amuse me that so many self declared "Experienced" (skilled .. ???) riders ... have difficulty when riding their own motorcycle ... to keep to the posted speed limit ... without the need to be constantly checking.

Most Licensed motorists have trouble understanding that the posted open road speed limit is 100 km/hr. And ... you CAN be ticked for 1 km/hr over that. It is up to the discretion of the officer at the time the motorist is stopped ... to issue a ticket. OR NOT !!! Your attitude (and often his/hers) will decide the outcome. Fucking bleating about a bullshit "Tolerance" later in Court ... will be grasping at straws.

We all know the rules ... if you're big enough to break them ... be big enough to take the hit if you get pinged. Too many motorcyclists are dead because they were simply going too fast for the conditions ... so the actual speed is irrelevant. I Hope that none of you reading this ... will be the next one to die this way.

[pritch]

So... you drive/ride below 100km/h or above 104km/h?



The latter, conditions permitting of course. :whistle:

[old slider]

It never fails to amuse me that so many self declared "Experienced" (skilled .. ???) riders ... have difficulty when riding their own motorcycle ... to keep to the posted speed limit ... without the need to be constantly checking.

Most Licensed motorists have trouble understanding that the posted open road speed limit is 100 km/hr. And ... you CAN be ticked for 1 km/hr over that. It is up to the discretion of the officer at the time the motorist is stopped ... to issue a ticket. OR NOT !!! Your attitude (and often his/hers) will decide the outcome. Fucking bleating about a bullshit "Tolerance" later in Court ... will be grasping at straws.

We all know the rules ... if you're big enough to break them ... be big enough to take the hit if you get pinged. Too many motorcyclists are dead because they were simply going too fast for the conditions ... so the actual speed is irrelevant. I Hope that none of you reading this ... will be the next one to die this way.


We need much much longer passing lanes if we are being asked to pass those slower travelling 90-95 kmh vehicles whilst staying at 100kmh our selves. sounds blimming dangerous to me.

[FJRider]

We need much much longer passing lanes if we are being asked to pass those slower travelling 90-95 kmh vehicles whilst staying at 100kmh our selves. sounds blimming dangerous to me.

Again ... you know the rules ... there has NEVER been any guarantee in New Zealand legislation that all vehicles in any passing lanes ... at any/all times can overtake all slow vehicles ahead of them. NOBODY ASKS YOU TO PASS ANYBODY. Its the overwhelming idea that nobody can possibly be restricted/slowed/inconvenienced in their travels ... and that seems to be the main cause of the road rage attitudes and mayhem on our roads.


Personally ... I do my overtaking outside "overtaking" lanes ... especially in busy traffic times. If I cannot pass safely ... I don't. Those that lack confidence, ability and skill to do this safely in places other than passing lanes ... should just ride (safely) on quiet roads.

Your neck and your choice. But the rules wont change anytime soon.

[old slider]

Again ... you know the rules ... there has NEVER been any guarantee in New Zealand legislation that all vehicles in any passing lanes ... at any/all times can overtake all slow vehicles ahead of them. NOBODY ASKS YOU TO PASS ANYBODY. Its the overwhelming idea that nobody can possibly be restricted/slowed/inconvenienced in their travels ... and that seems to be the main cause of the road rage attitudes and mayhem on our roads.


Personally ... I do my overtaking outside "overtaking" lanes ... especially in busy traffic times. If I cannot pass safely ... I don't. Those that lack confidence, ability and skill to do this safely in places other than passing lanes ... should just ride (safely) on quiet roads.

Your neck and your choice. But the rules wont change anytime soon.

I agree with most of that, but I will stick by my opinion that passing a vehicle of any type or number whether on passing lanes or not is dangerous if you stay at or under the rules, I think getting past and back onto your side of the road as quickly and as safely as possible is paramount, you guys that pass obeying the road rules maybe the reason NZ has so many head ons.?

[neels]

Personally ... I do my overtaking outside "overtaking" lanes ... especially in busy traffic times. If I cannot pass safely ... I don't.

Yep, me too, best time to overtake is on the next straight bit after a passing lane, when everyone has gone back to sleep



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[FJRider]

... you guys that pass obeying the road rules maybe the reason NZ has so many head ons.?

I'm still alive ... no head-ons yet. And no tickets for speed/dangerous overtaking either ...

[FJRider]

Yep, me too, best time to overtake is on the next straight bit after a passing lane, when everyone has gone back to sleep



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Back to sleep and back to 85-90 km/hr.

[Gremlin]

One thing that does properly hack me off (amongst a few I'm sure), is that when I do drive, my 4 wheel vehicle is the large Hiace. The type of vehicle you have to put overtaking applications in, in triplicate and wait for approval, especially when carrying a load.

Several times I've been lining up an overtake at the start of a passing lane, when I started planning it at the first sign of a sign (say, Passing lane, 2km) and at the 400m sign I've got the gap in front of me, 100m later I'm normally dropping a gear, starting the run and at the start of the extra lane I'm closing on traffic pretty well...

And the numpty in front, as I close on the rear quarter panel, wakes up that there is another lane, starts to move across without checking their mirrors, THEN realises they've almost got a van in their boot, brake, swerve back to their lane...

Meanwhile, as soon as they've started moving in front of me, I've braked, lost all my speed, caused all the traffic behind me to probably brake and now can barely move left because the traffic behind is probably moving quicker... and there is no way I'm passing in that lane again :mad:

For the most part an all wheel drive Hiace ZX is actually pretty good at maintaining 100kph on most roads... but hills defeat it :(

[caseye]

You deserve a medal if you can keep within a 4km speed tolerance without looking at your speedo. Most people can't so I am not alone.

FUCK OFF!
The above messages was too short. I had to add some words before it appeared.
Now. FUCK OFF.
You are back on IGNORE-ant you fool.

[TheDemonLord]

Again ... you know the rules ... there has NEVER been any guarantee in New Zealand legislation that all vehicles in any passing lanes ... at any/all times can overtake all slow vehicles ahead of them. NOBODY ASKS YOU TO PASS ANYBODY. Its the overwhelming idea that nobody can possibly be restricted/slowed/inconvenienced in their travels ... and that seems to be the main cause of the road rage attitudes and mayhem on our roads.


Personally ... I do my overtaking outside "overtaking" lanes ... especially in busy traffic times. If I cannot pass safely ... I don't. Those that lack confidence, ability and skill to do this safely in places other than passing lanes ... should just ride (safely) on quiet roads.

Your neck and your choice. But the rules wont change anytime soon.

I should note that I so agree mostly with what you are saying - however there is the bit in NZ Legislation about not impeding the reasonable flow of traffic.

My biggest issue with this line of reasoning is that our main aerterial routes (SH1, Napier-Taupo etc.) are not fit for the purpose they currently serve - especially with our reliance on Trucking.

Some interesting Data on this:

Where NZ sits in Vehicles per 1,000 people (http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Transport/Road/Motor-vehicles-per-1000-people)

We are 8th in the world for cars per 1,000 people - yet compared to some of the countries that we are behind: Australia and the US - who both have for their aerterial routes big long straight roads.

Then look at the percentage of trucks per capita (I'm comparing NZ with the UK)

NZ registration data (http://www.transport.govt.nz/ourwork/tmif/transport-volume/tv004/)

Number of heavy trucks - 136,807
Pop of NZ: 4,471,000

- this gives us 3% of our registered vehicles are heavy trucks

UK Govt HGV stats - it's an Excel spreadsheet FYI (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516161/veh0504.xls)
Number of HGVs - 506,200
Pop of the UK: 64,100,000

- This gives us 0.7% of the UKs registered vehicles are heavy trucks

We have just over 4 times the number of heavy trucks per capita than the UK on roads that are frequently curvy (ooh!), hilly, single lane, limited overtaking opportunities (both in terms of road layout and other traffic), and a percentage of the population who don't like to overtake except on passing lanes (resulting in a line of traffic, where one has to either be an asshole and leap frog or wait for a passing lane long enough)

I should point out that this isn't hating on Truckies - this is more a gripe at TPTB who have a road system that is not designed for how it is being used.

That all said - National have done a reasonable job of upgrading parts of the NZ Highway network to actually function as a highway system.

[swbarnett]

(resulting in a line of traffic, where one has to either be an asshole and leap frog ...)
If a driver doesn't take a reasonable (i.e. safe) passing opportunity then they have no right to be miffed at one that does. Passing slower traffic (safely) does not make one an asshole.

[TheDemonLord]

If a driver doesn't take a reasonable (i.e. safe) passing opportunity then they have no right to be miffed at one that does. Passing slower traffic (safely) does not make one an asshole.

It's the pushing back into the stream of traffic that is a bit assholey.

I should also state I agree with you though.

[swbarnett]

It's the pushing back into the stream of traffic that is a bit assholey.
Ah, now I see what you mean. I was, of course, assuming there would be a gap to be had. Agreed.

[WristTwister]

Meh, none of this surprises me really. I'm mildly amused why so many feel the need to "do the limit plus the prevailing tolerance, minus 1 km/h" as if just doing the limit or flowing with the traffic at 5 km/h under is a chore...:laugh:

Make it a habit to travel at the limit and it becomes second nature, but that's just not manly enough I suppose...:rolleyes:

Experience has shown me that 95% of road users go 10 over the limit. If I rode 5 under in a few minutes I'd be tailgated, a few more to build-up a queue of traffic, then around 30 seconds before the risky overtakes begin.

-----------

Lower tolerances just increase the chances of giving more drivers a fine to scare them into going slower in future. If they dropped tolerances to 0 only then would people treat speed limits as actual "limits". (That sounds contradictory, but what I meant was that drivers assume a tolerance when they decide their speed, if there were no tolerance, drivers would most probably keep below the speed limit - with "limit" being the key word, not "Limit + 5km").

[FJRider]

Yep, me too, best time to overtake is on the next straight bit after a passing lane, when everyone has gone back to sleep



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Sometimes ... if the mood strikes :devil2: ... I sit in the right lane just behind the line of a big truck trailer unit at 95 km/hr ... then blow past it just as it starts to move to the right at the end of the passing bays ... just because I can ... :shifty:

Horsepower is a wonderful thing ... :bleh:

[FJRider]

Experience has shown me that 95% of road users go 10 over the limit.

I think that your experience has not improved your ability to count. 95% is a very bad guess. And ... (I guess) you cannot prove that figure is anywhere near correct.


If I rode 5 under in a few minutes I'd be tailgated, a few more to build-up a queue of traffic, then around 30 seconds before the risky overtakes begin.

Ride at speeds you can get away with at the time. If you think that speed may need to be be over the posted limit ... the choice is yours .. as is the risk of a ticket. Don't bother telling us if you do get pinged ... we (I) don't care.


Lower tolerances just increase the chances of giving more drivers a fine to scare them into going slower in future. If they dropped tolerances to 0 only then would people treat speed limits as actual "limits". (That sounds contradictory, but what I meant was that drivers assume a tolerance when they decide their speed, if there were no tolerance, drivers would most probably keep below the speed limit - with "limit" being the key word, not "Limit + 5km").

Tolerances are LTSA public relations bullshit. The posted speed limits ARE the actual speed limits. The officer that stops YOU has the authority to issue a ticket if you are over any posted speed limit. The discretion to do so (or not) is theirs ... any previously announced tolerance can and will be ignored ... if they see fit.

[pritch]

I have a pet peeve. This one is about motorcyclists. I hate bastards who are too lazy to change gear and use the whole passing lane to overtake a car. There is a vivid memory of a guy with an STX with boxes on a group ride who did exactly that. Fuck everybody else. (No, it wasn't Nadroj.) I was having a major rant inside my helmet. I didn't have an air horn then - but I do now. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his crutch. :devil2: