Cornering question

[red_wolf626]

After watching videos of sports bikes take corners (i.e shifting weight in seat, putting knee out, huge lean, knee almost on ground) is this only a way that sports bike should take corners or is this recommended for any bike?

Like I understand that you have to lean into the corners but if you don't have a sports bike is it ok to be going to that extreme angle or should you just do more of a gentle lean?

And also if you are leaning into a corner, is there a speed (too slow) when the bike will just tip over due to forces acting on it not being strong enough? So really you have to take a corner at a decent speed?

Thanks :) :)

[mojo1444]

After watching videos of sports bikes take corners (i.e shifting weight in seat, putting knee out, huge lean, knee almost on ground) is this only a way that sports bike should take corners or is this recommended for any bike?

Like I understand that you have to lean into the corners but if you don't have a sports bike is it ok to be going to that extreme angle or should you just do more of a gentle lean?

And also if you are leaning into a corner, is there a speed (too slow) when the bike will just tip over due to forces acting on it not being strong enough? So really you have to take a corner at a decent speed?

Thanks :) :)

All the best for joining the force usually it takes some time to be selected for the motorcycle force (10+) not to put you off, but if that's your goal go for it. considering cornering I think it is not about how much you lean, but what line you take entering a corner and at what speed. spend some time feeling your bike and make sure you are far away from the centre line as you do not want incoming traffic taking your head off. best thing to do is take couple of courses with motorcycletraining website.

[Moi]

Go to the Norwegian Motorcycle Union website and download their book "Full Control" - http://nmcu.org/files/Full%20Control_2013.pdf
This explains the dynamics of riding.


Have a look at this you tube site: https://www.youtube.com/user/RoadcraftNottingham
Russ teaches riding in the UK and has a very good style of presentation.

[EJK]

Ask Cassina.

[Old Steve]

Forget about the GPmoto riders, they're leaning so far (over 60 deg) that they lean to the inside of the curve to make the bike think it's leaning more.

Lean is dependant on the radius of the curve you are following and the speed you're doing. At a certain speed, to turn tighter you lean more. If you're not leaning enough for the curve and speed you're taking then you'll follow a wide path and end up on the other side of the road.

If you want a good series of beginners videos, google "Capt Crash Idaho", he';s got some good instructional videos on facebook.

[HenryDorsetCase]

After watching videos of sports bikes take corners (i.e shifting weight in seat, putting knee out, huge lean, knee almost on ground) is this only a way that sports bike should take corners or is this recommended for any bike?



any bike, any corner, balls to the wall, limit of control. Pin it to win it.

[Luckylegs]

Guys that get their knee down do it so they can corner a tight line at the highest possible speed. If you are not confident with cornering you should not be attempting this on the road but rather learn it at a riding school on a race track.

PROMISING !!!



When learning cornering speeds look for corners that have speed advisory signs on them and try and aim to corner at that speed. You will have to lean your bike at the speed but not so much that you would need to get your knee down. On really tight bends (eg 20km) you can end up slowing down to a point where balancing is challenging, having a bike with good low down torque will help you there. Maybe get a riding lesson on windy roads as well. Good luck.

But then you go and do that.... I'm giving you some credit for your start, but overall, it's

C-

[george formby]

Oh goody, I can get my soap box out. The best thing I have done to help my understanding of cornering dynamics is moto gymkhana (http://www.therideadvice.com/introduction-motorcycle-gymkhana/) practice. Safe, challenging and teaches all aspects of cornering without the fear of sliding off the road into the scenery.

Type moto gymkhana CBR 600 into youtube for a treat. I don't want to re post an old vid.

[5ive]

On really tight bends (eg 20km) you can end up slowing down to a point where balancing is challenging, having a bike with good low down torque will help you there.

At that point you should just be able to put your feet down to aid you until you're around the corner.

[george formby]

Yes I have done that myself but from what I have read it is not something riding schools approve of riders doing when cornering on the road.


OP Red-Wullif, this putting a foot down thing is a crash rescue attempt, I'm sure the first mention of it was tongue in cheek, this quote, not so much. Even on a small bike you could be saying "ankle, meet surgeon, he's bigger than Ben Hur and has cast thousands...". The only place for this is on a dirt track with ALL the appropriate safety gear and a lot of practice.

[TheDemonLord]

Yes I have done that myself but from what I have read it is not something riding schools approve of riders doing when cornering on the road.

Please for the love of God tell me that you are being Sarcastic or are Trolling.

[5ive]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paZY6QoGTug

;)

[george formby]

If you read post 1 again he mentions the risk of coming off if cornering too slow and the other poster and myself were thinking of say a very tight 20km bend where the other poster suggested putting a foot down for balance if necessary. You must be from a riding school to think the way you do and when i did try it on a very tight slow bend once it was a painless experience. Had I not done that I would have lost my balance and come off at the speed I was traveling.


I will stick by what I posted and the solution to slow corners I posted earlier. If you had said u-turn it may have had some credence even though footing a bike around shows a lack of confidence and possibly technique.

I notice a wee vid of the foot in corner technique has been posted....

[Hads]

Or needing to put a foot down could be seen as a safe alternative to risk dropping the bike if you dont have enough speed up on a tight bend.

U Turn yes, normal tight paved corner no.

Tight gravel corner yes, although this is questionable as balance is affected negatively not having both feet on pegs.

[Scubbo]

reminds me of a thread - http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/lean-in-with-the-bike-or-push-the-bike-into-a-corner.1089037/

[5ive]

Or needing to put a foot down could be seen as a safe alternative to risk dropping the bike if you dont have enough speed up on a tight bend.

Yes, it's probably safer. You'll have to keep an eye on your mirrors though, you don't want to be rear ended by a group of lycra clad cyclists.

[TheDemonLord]

Oh God, You weren't trolling Cassina...

Here's a picture of your perfect bike...

328109

[george formby]

I give you the Sidewinder (https://youtu.be/7a9QOnFUKgE).


Problems solved...

[Luckylegs]

At least I was able to offer some advice unlike you so I would give your effort a definite fail.

No, no advice trumps bad advice every single time!!!

[Luckylegs]

Or needing to put a foot down could be seen as a safe alternative to risk dropping the bike if you dont have enough speed up on a tight bend.

Shirley, if its that tight and ya goin that slow, youll be all but upright in which case the bike aint gonna fall over is it. If its still getting a bit wobbly then employ the old rear brake while holding throttle kinda like you learn as one of the first tricks when you used to be tested for the slow ride to get your license, numbnuts.

Oh btw, that was advice so with that out of the way but with points deducted for being a cnut, thats a

D-

[5ive]

...and some of us apply critical thinking before believing everything we read on the internet.

[Banditbandit]

At least I was able to offer some advice unlike you so I would give your effort a definite fail.

Yeah .. but cornering at the advised speed? Shit I generally double the advised speed and corner at that ... You do realize that the "advise speed" is set for the maximum comfort of a passenger in the back seat of a car ...

Yeah I know learner riders will not corner at double the advised speed .. but trying it at the advised speed you are more likely to fall off that doing it a bit faster ..

[TheDemonLord]

...and some of us apply critical thinking before believing everything we read on the internet.

True - just listen to what old Abe had to say on it...

328111

[KawasakiKid]

After watching videos of sports bikes take corners (i.e shifting weight in seat, putting knee out, huge lean, knee almost on ground) is this only a way that sports bike should take corners or is this recommended for any bike?

Like I understand that you have to lean into the corners but if you don't have a sports bike is it ok to be going to that extreme angle or should you just do more of a gentle lean?

And also if you are leaning into a corner, is there a speed (too slow) when the bike will just tip over due to forces acting on it not being strong enough? So really you have to take a corner at a decent speed?

Thanks :) :)

What I see from this is that you obviously have no idea how to corner on a motorcycle....not such a bad thing for a learner, but you must go to a riding course. First hand instruction and explanation is what you need, not the internet.....internet is shit way to learn to ride.

Hopefully your instructor will teach you the basics (and more) the correct way. It is much harder to unlearn shit than learn the correct way first time.

So find a riding school with good reputation and go from there.

[Blackbird]

Hopefully your instructor will teach you the basics (and more) the correct way. It is much harder to unlearn shit than learn the correct way first time.

So find a riding school with good reputation and go from there.

This is absolutely the best advice. I see you're from Wellington. Look up the Two Bald Bikers website - these guys are seriously good trainers right up to advanced level.

[Akzle]

any bike, any corner, balls to the wall, limit of control. Pin it to win it.
this. always this.
rbgiafp

Please for the love of God tell me that you are being Sarcastic or are Trolling.
nerp. fuckwit level9000


Here's a picture of your perfect bike...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]

needs more torques down low :sweatdrop

[Akzle]

After watching videos of sports bikes take corners (i.e shifting weight in seat, putting knee out, huge lean, knee almost on ground) is this only a way that sports bike should take corners or is this recommended for any bike?

Like I understand that you have to lean into the corners but if you don't have a sports bike is it ok to be going to that extreme angle or should you just do more of a gentle lean?

And also if you are leaning into a corner, is there a speed (too slow) when the bike will just tip over due to forces acting on it not being strong enough? So really you have to take a corner at a decent speed?

Thanks :) :)

Also, wolfy, since you're not to know, but cassina is a grade-A fuckwit and nothing it ever says should be taken seriously ever.

this is for your own safety. cassina has crashed over9000 times. (and failed to learn a damn thing from it, next crash in 3...2...)
please, for the love of god do not take it seriously.


also, i'm picking you're young and internetty.
watching videos on youtube will not learn you to ride.

[Zedder]

It was actually another poster who said to put your leg out for balance and I agreed with him having done it without coming to grief in a tight low speed bend. Some of us sort of think outside the square rather than restricting ourselves to only the riding school way that many on here think is the only way.


Thanks for the entertainment.

[rastuscat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paZY6QoGTug

;)

Fred Flintstone walks his bike. It's not great technique.

[AllanB]

Step one to riding your new motorcycle: Don't ask KB how to ride it ........


Ironically one of the really annoying things I see on the road is someone hanging off the seat, knee out and they are going slow around a corner ....... like posted speed slow! WTF.

[5ive]

I bet there are far more riders in the cemetery as a result of exceeding the recomended speed on bends than those sticking to it. If poster 1 takes your advice as a beginner rider they will likely end up in the cemetery too.

Most likely!

http://cemeterycircuit.co.nz/

[caseye]

Thanks for the entertainment.

Rastus, you should have left your original post up, it is absolutely relevant.

Are you lot seriously happy to see what this fool spouts, posted up as actual Advice?

Once again, advice that can and would KILL a novice, if applied the way this moron has espoused it.

Oh, but they're a Troll, they don't really mean it! Really?

They say it with hand held over their black hole of a chest cavity, where there is neither warmth or empathy.

red_wolf26. Do not emulate the F wit who told you it's OK to put your foot out, they did it, it worked, lucky they didn't end up with a busted leg and a broken bike. Wait! the answer!
Go practice what you already know to be good advice, ask on here, ask older, more experienced riders, go and do road riding courses, join a regular quiet group ride, where the older/more experienced riders will show you how to do things safely but for the love of God, do not listen to a single thing cassina says, got it?

[rastuscat]

Rastus, you should have left your original post up, it is absolutely relevant.

I'm posting from my phone. I went back to correct a typo and the post deleted.

The problem I see is new folk watching the Motorcycle GP and thinking that's the way to corner.

Those guys are riding on tracks like carpet, on bikes that cost a gazillion dollars, and with experience coming out their ears. With the added benefit of safety run off areas, and nobody coming the other way around that corner.

The road is no place to race.

https://youtu.be/VruWHHEnZGw

Track habits are not a good idea on the road.

Just sayin.

[skippa1]

Group rides....go on large group rides.....the peer group pressure to keep up sharpens your skills and weeds out the fags that cant ride....

seriously, the only advice you should take here is get some training....you sound too fresh to be listening to the likes of Cassina

[Zedder]

Rastus, you should have left your original post up, it is absolutely relevant.

Are you lot seriously happy to see what this fool spouts, posted up as actual Advice?

Once again, advice that can and would KILL a novice, if applied the way this moron has espoused it.

Oh, but they're a Troll, they don't really mean it! Really?

They say it with hand held over their black hole of a chest cavity, where there is neither warmth or empathy.



Why use my post?

[pritch]

Is there an L plate moderator on the job? Some posts went straight to pink Hell and they weren't even unduly disrespectful of anybody.

There is one danger with dragging a foot while moving. The late Doctor John Hinds pointed out in a lecture to other medical staff that with a motorcycle crash victim it's always possible that they will have a separated pelvis. The injury being caused by the rider putting a foot down. The speed at which this happens is probably rather greater than 20kph but once you're out of first gear you shouldn't be putting your foot down anyway. Motard riders excepted.

[george formby]

Is there an L plate moderator on the job? Some posts went straight to pink Hell and they weren't even unduly disrespectful of anybody.

There is one danger with dragging a foot while moving. The late Doctor John Hinds pointed out in a lecture to other medical staff that with a motorcycle crash victim it's always possible that they will have a separated pelvis. The injury being caused by the rider putting a foot down. The speed at which this happens is probably rather greater than 20kph but once you're out of first gear you shouldn't be putting your foot down anyway. Motard riders excepted.


Yup, I wanted to post a pic of foot dragging and boom, pinko, commie, subversive land. Bit miffed really, I've been on my best behaviour since the New Year.

[rastuscat]

Dragging your foot? What? Can't you ride like an adult?

[george formby]

For fucks sake sport I was not the only one that agreed with doing this. We may actually both be more experienced riders than you and know how it can be done safely which you obviously don't. If he takes your and the other posters advice on here that agree with you, on a bend if he has not got up enough speed on he will drop his bike as opposed to taking our advise to put his foot out to maintain balance. Most single bike deaths on bends are actually caused by too much speed and not too little did you know?



FFS, what have you got against riding a bike properly? You post drivel, in a language which resembles English, which could endanger inexperienced riders. You regularly espouse that training can be detrimental and after your many offs, advocate experience as the way to go. You have a totally unique perspective of riding which really should be kept to yourself.


You also have a unique perspective on interpreting other members posts which is very occasionally entertaining by demonstration of your experience and the tires up consequences.

[pritch]

If you read my post again I specifically mentioned low speed 20km bends and certainly on no faster bends. I only remembered doing it on one anyway that was a tight uphill narrow left hand bend.

If you read mine again I do acknowledge your 20kph. And if it's all the same to you, reading your post once was more than enough.

Another problem with dragging a foot is that in an emergency we tend to do what we do habitually. If you drag a foot a low speed you are likely to do it at high speed in extremis. But OK it was ony once, perhaps you shouldn't even have mentioned it in the circumstances.

I'm astounded that you seem to think you might have more experience than Rastus. I don't agree with everything he says, but that's a really ummm bold(?) claim.:whistle:

[Akzle]

.

I'm astounded that you seem to think you might have more experience than Rastus. I don't agree with everything he says, but that's a really ummm bold(?) claim.:whistle:

bold is one word.

"fucken stupid" would do, too.


i mean fuck, rastus only teaches people how to ride... cassey... well, uhh, he's got this WOF guy...

[FJRider]

If you read my post again I specifically mentioned low speed 20km bends and certainly on no faster bends. I only remembered doing it on one anyway that was a tight uphill narrow left hand bend.

Found any (advised) 15 km/hr corners yet .. ???

[george formby]

Found any (advised) 15 km/hr corners yet .. ???



:lol: Yup. Not worthy of a quick dab, though. The 20kmh corner before hand is enough to temper the enthusiasm.


Speaking of cornering, has anyone noticed that their are no speed advisory's on gravel road corners? Well, not many. 100kmh road, loose surface, big inclines, hairpins, no caution signs.............. Nirvana.

[onearmedbandit]

It was actually another poster who said they did it or recomended doing it and I was just agreeing with them that it worked for me too.

Hey I'm just assuming here but I think you missed the sarcasm...

[AllanB]

Yes took my 750 up the Coronet Peak road years ago but I dont remember if I had to put my foot down for balance or not.


There are a couple seriously tight steep little buggers on the lower Queenstown side of the Cardrona hill

Shit that's weird as I was heading down the tight bits in the car 10 or so days ago and two bikes coming up - one had his/her foot out .....

That's some freaky Cassina Southern cousin shit going on right there!

[caseye]

:lol: Yup. Not worthy of a quick dab, though. The 20kmh corner before hand is enough to temper the enthusiasm.


Speaking of cornering, has anyone noticed that their are no speed advisory's on gravel road corners? Well, not many. 100kmh road, loose surface, big inclines, hairpins, no caution signs.............. Nirvana.

Not fair that George! casina could not possibly ride such a road, without speed advisory's and the chance of some stray goats/dog's it'd be too much for them.
Whangamomonana wasn't that hard, M50, Trumpy 1200, 1250 Bandy, 1000 Versey ( brand new, 2 up) 650 old as but a goodie Katana, least experienced led us all the way, wind amazing, Rain horizontal,campa vans on our sde, you name it, even go ats on the road, none of us fell off or even came close. No feet downs either, metal was good and firm, Nirvana, Oh Yeah, do it your way without help or hinderance from do fucking gooders.

[Luckylegs]

I did not drag my foot for balance but simply tapped it down for a split second.

See, what youve described there is not a foot out to help you balance the bike but a survival instinct because you lost control of your motorcycle.

Ya know, a mentor could help you with that :-)

[5ive]

It was actually another poster who said they did it or recomended doing it and I was just agreeing with them that it worked for me too.

No one actually recommended riding with your feet down...

328114

[caseye]

See, what youve described there is not a foot out to help you balance the bike but a survival instinct because you lost control of your motorcycle.

Ya know, a mentor could help you with that :-)

His new found friend Katman would I'm sure be only too pleased to take him out for a group ride and show him some real corners, you know 55K posted! Yea ha.LOL sorry KM, low blow.

[FJRider]

Yes took my 750 up the Coronet Peak road years ago but I dont remember if I had to put my foot down for balance or not.

There is one on the Reefton side of Springs Junction. From Springs it is an uphill right hander ... and traffic coming the other often overshoots because they think it can be done much faster than the advised ..

[HenryDorsetCase]

So, what Freddie Spencer would do would be to do a lot of braking upright then chuck it into the corner under brakes. The front tyre would start to slide and he come off the brake and would then pick up the throttle which would unweight the front tyre (weight transfers to the rear), that would allow him to hold his line, and the now spinning rear would thus give him a tighter line on exit and faster pickup.

So I think you should do that. It worked for him. There's photos - I've attached one. Of note here is that you can see marks on the track where he has done it (and I assume all those ex dirt trackers of his era) lap after lap. Monza I think this was.

[Akzle]

No one actually recommended riding with your feet down...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3]

pssssshhhhhht. i've put excavators in skankier holes. and got em out again, too.


So, what Freddie Spencer would do would be to do a lot of braking upright then chuck it into the corner under brakes. The front tyre would start to slide and he come off the brake and would then pick up the throttle which would unweight the front tyre (weight transfers to the rear), that would allow him to hold his line, and the now spinning rear would thus give him a tighter line on exit and faster pickup.

So I think you should do that. It worked for him. There's photos - I've attached one. Of note here is that you can see marks on the track where he has done it (and I assume all those ex dirt trackers of his era) lap after lap. Monza I think this was.
they must be under huge presure to keep up, bet they crash!

[AllanB]

Freddie don't need no stinkin letric foolary. All he needed was power!

[Grumph]

If you really must put your foot down, make sure you've got boots with a smooth, non grippy sole.
First thing I learned starting racing on bikes with less clearance than now was how easy it was to have a foot pulled off the rests.
Leather soles, not rubber, and they'll slide.
The quote from the racing doctor back a bit about looking for a separated pelvis is very relevant. Happens easily if the boots grab instead of sliding.

But you should hover the foot anyway to maintain balance rather than touch it down.

And Spencer is holding it up on his knee....

[onearmedbandit]

I bet many of the riders on here would over shoot too as I think I am the only one who takes notice of those signs on here.

Oh we all notice them, just a lot of us don't need a speed advisory sign to tell us how to take a corner safely.

[nzspokes]

This is absolutely the best advice. I see you're from Wellington. Look up the Two Bald Bikers website - these guys are seriously good trainers right up to advanced level.

Agreed 100%

Oh and ignore cassina.

[pritch]

I bet many of the riders on here would over shoot too as I think I am the only one who takes notice of those signs on here.

If you were to read what the posts actually say, as opposed to what you think they say, you'll see it has been mentioned previously in other threads that the slow speed signs mean what they say.

[R650R]

I'm surprised none of our

resident tech experts have quoted how many degrees per micro second of improved rate of turn is gained per degree of extra lean angle... it would actually be interesting to know... or is it just the 'vibe'....

Now the really top MotoGP racers dont purposefully get their knee down, in fact for some of them its in the way of even more lean angle!!! Most only use it to briefly prop the fornt end for the few percentages of front end slides that are salvageable.

I had a riding mate who used to frequently get his knee down on the road, he ended up eating more hospital food than me, now thats a relevant measurement....

Done it at the track on GSXR1100, funny thing was my lap times slowed by three seconds a lap as i was too busy playing with knee sliders. As for shifting your body weight, an inch or two in any direction has great effect but whats more important is to have consistant riding style so that on the day the road quality or other drivers actions suddenly doesnt meet the minimum standards you know what your machine will handle in regards of evasive manoevering.

[Madness]

I think I am the only one who takes notice of those signs on here.

I take notice of advisory speed signs. I almost never match my speed to that being advised but I take notice of the number shown and adapt my riding to suit. Perhaps some of us are just not as one-dimensional as you?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I take notice of advisory speed signs. I almost never match my speed to that being advised but I take notice of the number shown and adapt my riding to suit. Perhaps some of us are just not as one-dimensional as you?

the rule is x 2 +20 in MPH. So, 85 kph is good for 190mph. 35kph is good for 90mph.*

easy peasy and simple to remember.





*its true!

[Berries]

Speaking of cornering, has anyone noticed that their are no speed advisory's on gravel road corners? Well, not many. 100kmh road, loose surface, big inclines, hairpins, no caution signs.............. Nirvana.
That's because the surface condition can vary widely so what is good for 85km/h one week may only be good for 45km/h the week after once the road has been butchered by a few milk tankers and farmers doing farmer stuff. This actually makes drivers/riders think about the corner ahead which is a good thing rather than blindly adhering to what the advisory speed says as some would recommend.

OP ->
Step 1 - turn the computer off
Step 2 - go and ride
Step 3 - get some lessons if you feel you need them

I am struggling to think back to when I started to ride but by the sound of your questions you never rode a push bike as a child? If you had you should know the answers to all of your questions.

[Moise]

I do hope that the OP found something useful in the replies.

Speed advisory signs should only ever be taken as a guide. They do not always relate to what is a safe speed for the corner, but can take into account visibility and hidden intersections.

On some roads, they seem to be used to try to slow traffic rather than being related to a safe corner speed. The road from Dome Valley to Mangawhai is an example of this, where some 45 corners can be taken faster than those marked 65.

Sometimes the advisory speeds are too high depending on conditions. Try the Kopu-Hikuai road in winter when there is ice on the road!

Sent from somewhere using Tapatalk

[trufflebutter]

I do hope that the OP found something useful in the replies.



On here? I wouldn't have thought so, as past threads would prove, it is mostly just a whole lot of different opinions put forward that primarily invites others to largely disagree.

[Hads]

I'm always very cautious on a road I don't know, doing advised speeds on the corner or slightly above. Some corners tighten, the one on the Okains Bay road on the Akaroa Harbour side is one of such corners, I think that one in particular has killed a few people including a Unimog driver a while ago.

It is interesting riding on roads that don't have advisory speeds, e.g. the Summit Road, keeps your wits about you that's for sure, added bonus is the grit.

[red_wolf626]

Also, wolfy, since you're not to know, but cassina is a grade-A fuckwit and nothing it ever says should be taken seriously ever.

this is for your own safety. cassina has crashed over9000 times. (and failed to learn a damn thing from it, next crash in 3...2...)
please, for the love of god do not take it seriously.


also, i'm picking you're young and internetty.
watching videos on youtube will not learn you to ride.


hahahaha I'll keep that in mind then (sorry cass) :p
And yeah I know a thing or two about the intraweb, have been watching videos but nothing teaches you as much as actually been out there and doing it.

Plus everyones gonna have different ways of doing things and some might be.... well shit so haha. Looking into doing a ride forever course so yeah :)

[red_wolf626]

I do hope that the OP found something useful in the replies.

Speed advisory signs should only ever be taken as a guide. They do not always relate to what is a safe speed for the corner, but can take into account visibility and hidden intersections.

On some roads, they seem to be used to try to slow traffic rather than being related to a safe corner speed. The road from Dome Valley to Mangawhai is an example of this, where some 45 corners can be taken faster than those marked 65.

Sometimes the advisory speeds are too high depending on conditions. Try the Kopu-Hikuai road in winter when there is ice on the road!

Sent from somewhere using Tapatalk


Looks like I started something controversial......

Well yes after sifting through many replies i think I've found some good stuff. Cheers guys

[Moise]

Any thread on KB is likely to be like this! But there are some members here who's posts are good value.

Sent from somewhere using Tapatalk

[onearmedbandit]

On here? I wouldn't have thought so, as past threads would prove, it is mostly just a whole lot of different opinions put forward that primarily invites others to largely disagree.

Then you're reading the wrong threads. GBR and R&R are only the surface of KB.

[trufflebutter]

Then you're reading the wrong threads. GBR and R&R are only the surface of KB.

Yes I agree, fuck that didn't hurt and I feel really good about it, very liberating <_<

[Banditbandit]

I bet there are far more riders in the cemetery as a result of exceeding the recomended speed on bends than those sticking to it. If poster 1 takes your advice as a beginner rider they will likely end up in the cemetery too.

And how many crashes have you had? This speaks directly to the credibility of your road riding knowledge ..


Step one to riding your new motorcycle: Don't ask KB how to ride it ........


Ironically one of the really annoying things I see on the road is someone hanging off the seat, knee out and they are going slow around a corner ....... like posted speed slow! WTF.

Yes. I was on Hampton DOwns one day when the officials asked the people who were hanging off the side with knees donw to please stop, as they are holding up the faster riders.

Getting off the side is not necessarily faster ..


Where I do drag my feet is if I am in real slow bumper to bumper traffic where the speed is too slow to balance with my feet on the pegs. I


Huh? I can balance on any forward movement. Your balance skills on a motorcycle are severely lacking ..




Done it at the track on GSXR1100, funny thing was my lap times slowed by three seconds a lap as i was too busy playing with knee sliders.

Exactly. Hanging off the side is not necessarily faster .. it does take practice to get it right - and until you get it right it will be slower ..

I never do it. I don't practise it and I can corner at more tan 200 klicks without doing it - why bother? Unless you are a racer ..

[TheDemonLord]

why bother? Unless you are a racer ..

Cause Everyone knows that a Well executed Corner with the Knee down will instantly moisten all the underwear of every lady within a 2 Km radius.

Getting the Elbow down will actually cause the Underwear to spontaneously remove itself.

[rastuscat]

Lean angle is proportionately linked to both power supplied to the bike, and the speed the bike is doing.

You can use a greater lean angle by having greater speed, or by using greater power which is prevented from turning into speed by using the back brake.

These things are kind of advanced, as without a whole bunch of riding, they lack context.

Basically, if you are new, taking tips from the Moto GP channel isn't a good idea. Or taking tips from here on KB either.

Tips given briefly and without in depth context can easily be taken badly.

[5ive]

Great, now a new rider is going to try and go faster around a corner so that they can lean more...

[rastuscat]

Great, now a new rider is going to try and go faster around a corner so that they can lean more...

It's interesting coaching total beginners. They are so scared of leaning the bike they try to go around corners without leaning it, so slowly that it is painful to watch. Trying to ride at 5 - 10 kmh around a corner in the basic handling skills test is just hard to watch. Doing it at 15 to 20 and things flow. 15 to 20 is "faster" than 5 to 10, but it's still not fast.

"Faster" is a relative thing. I don't want beginners to ride fast around corners. But I want them to develop the confidence that if they give the bike momentum, leaning it proportional to the momentum isn't a problem.

Combine that with looking where you want to go, decent throttle control, and head and eyes up, and cornering as a beginner gets easier.

It just takes time to develop that confidence. And saintly patience from the poor beggar trying to coach someone how to do it.

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's interesting coaching total beginners. They are so scared of leaning the bike they try to go around corners without leaning it, so slowly that it is painful to watch. Trying to ride at 5 - 10 kmh around a corner in the basic handling skills test is just hard to watch. Doing it at 15 to 20 and things flow. 15 to 20 is "faster" than 5 to 10, but it's still not fast.

"Faster" is a relative thing. I don't want beginners to ride fast around corners. But I want them to develop the confidence that if they give the bike momentum, leaning it proportional to the momentum isn't a problem.

Combine that with looking where you want to go, decent throttle control, and head and eyes up, and cornering as a beginner gets easier.

It just takes time to develop that confidence. And saintly patience from the poor beggar trying to coach someone how to do it.

I want to do the course where I get to push the front and do knee saves like my hero Freddie Spencer. Thats one of yours, eh?

[rastuscat]

I want to do the course where I get to push the front and do knee saves like my hero Freddie Spencer. Thats one of yours, eh?

I've tried doing slow speed riding on a Stripple. Awful turning circle. Stunning bike, but crap for rodeo work.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've tried doing slow speed riding on a Stripple. Awful turning circle. Stunning bike, but crap for rodeo work.

absolutely true. Its hilarious how bad it is... like a fully faired race bike with clipons. Ive always thought its because it shares the frame with the Daytona and thus its steering stops for clipons.

[Zedder]

I do hope that the OP found something useful in the replies.

Speed advisory signs should only ever be taken as a guide. They do not always relate to what is a safe speed for the corner, but can take into account visibility and hidden intersections.

On some roads, they seem to be used to try to slow traffic rather than being related to a safe corner speed. The road from Dome Valley to Mangawhai is an example of this, where some 45 corners can be taken faster than those marked 65.

Sometimes the advisory speeds are too high depending on conditions. Try the Kopu-Hikuai road in winter when there is ice on the road!

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Good post.

Here's a bit of info on how the advisory speeds are calculated etc: https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/roadcode-questions/motorbike/signs/what-does-this-sign-mean9/

Apparently they were set in the 1990's and are out-of-date now due to overall speeds being lower and vehicle capabilities being higher.

[Moise]

Really? So what are the speeds based on - cornering forces or approach speeds?

Must have been fun doing all of the corners on the uphill section from Kopu!

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[Zedder]

Really? So what are the speeds based on - cornering forces or approach speeds?

Must have been fun doing all of the corners on the uphill section from Kopu!

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According to the "measured speed before the corner" as stated.

[Moise]

According to the "measured speed before the corner" as stated.
Placeholder.

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[Zedder]

Placeholder.

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All you had to do was read the linked page properly and you wouldn't have needed to ask the question.

[pritch]

I've tried doing slow speed riding on a Stripple. Awful turning circle. Stunning bike, but crap for rodeo work.

I thought that too, and I used it as an excuse to myself. Then I saw a YouTube clip of a Japanese rider on a gymkhana course on a Speed Triple and realised it wasn't the bike - it was me.:doh:

On getting a knee down - at the risk of repeating myself. If you are trying to get your knee down you are doing it wrong. In a left hand turn your head should be over by your left hand but that's not what most KBers do. In a l/h turn people move their head and body over to the right hand side of the bike, swivel their hips, and push the bike down. They might get a knee down but it really is as silly as it looks.

That guy in my avatar has a knee down and he isn't even trying. He is quite good though. For an old guy.

[T.W.R]

Geeezus Agostini has a lot to answer for:lol:

Fuck the corner your in, you should have that assessed & processed before you're in it....you should be looking through it and looking where you want to be not where you're at.

[AllanB]

Posted 'suggested' cornering speeds have to account for all road users - so logically they are set for say a car towing a boat or caravan driving with a load on a wet road.

If they posted a 'achievable' speed ............ mayhem!


I have noticed every now and then the buggers slip one buy and actually post a realistic speed - gets exciting if, like most road users you 'add' somewhat to the sign .

There is a tight bastard like that in the Lewis Pass.

[Drew]

Oh, now I get it. It's a cock measuring contest

[AllanB]

Oh, now I get it. It's a cock measuring contest

Absolutely. If they did not put the signs there to exceed by factor X you have nothing to measure against :bleh:

[Moise]

All you had to do was read the linked page properly and you wouldn't have needed to ask the question.
I've read it "properly" twice now, and it still doesn't make sense. What is your understanding?

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[Berries]

I've read it "properly" twice now, and it still doesn't make sense. What is your understanding?

So what are the speeds based on - cornering forces or approach speeds?
It is the cornering force (or side thrust) based on a constant speed through the curve. The constant speed through the curve = the approach speed because you have to have the vehicle settled at a steady speed when you hit the entry of the curve otherwise the readings are all to shit. The approach speed when testing is more than likely going to be lower than the normal approach speed as you have to set the vehicle up. The tests don't take any notice of visibility or hidden intersections. Advisory speeds have also been calculated for every curve on the state highway network based on the geometry of the curve. Occasionally the two sets of data even match, which is nice.

No idea where this drivingtests website is from or why it has been quoted a few times of late on KB but in this case, paragraph four to be exact, their description is correct. How they are set is somewhat irrelevant though, how you deal with them is the main thing and in that regard Madness had it spot on with this post -


I take notice of advisory speed signs. I almost never match my speed to that being advised but I take notice of the number shown and adapt my riding to suit.

Best advice in this thread.

[old slider]

This thread has been awesome, I decided on my born again, dry day only riding adventure, to take each corner I came upon at 15kmh above the recommended speed.

Real Daredevil? yea I know, lol. Only once did I think it was slightly unerving, it was a hard closing left handed 35kmh marked corner that would or could be a tad sensitive if wet, ice or covered in gravel , especially for someone with my limited ability.

[awayatc]

. Have almost lost my balance a few times putting my foot down when parking or at lights when it was wet with worn soles.


Woman.....

How many clues do you need....?

Bikes are not your thing....!


It is however morbidly fascinating to hear your mindless drivel .....

A bit like listening to Trump

Can't believe either of you is real

[rastuscat]

Note that a wide approach to corners is often a good idea, as you get a view of what's around the corner, sooner.

Which is always a good idea.

https://youtu.be/RzMTvgx3R5I

[Zedder]

A bit like listening to Trump

Can't believe either of you is real


Or still alive...

[YellowDog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paZY6QoGTug

;)

Now I see, he failed the transition from foot walking to riding :lol: