I see HD Australia have given ANZA Motorcycles the see you later message.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nice. Not. Pretty rough treatment after all their years of selling their product. Esp seeing as ANZA always played the game and got rid of the other franchises to keep HD happy.

Sorry for the guys and gals that work there that may well be out of a job shortly. Stink one.

[jellywrestler]

Nice. Not. Pretty rough treatment after all their years of selling their product. Esp seeing as ANZA always played the game and got rid of the other franchises to keep HD happy.

Sorry for the guys and gals that work there that may well be out of a job shortly. Stink one.

they did have other brands but so has lower hutts latest harley dealer....

[merv]

Yeah WTF. When importers change dealerships they really do screw loyalty and the customer is left in the lurch putting them off the brand.

[Crasherfromwayback]

they did have other brands but so has lower hutts latest harley dealer....

*Did* being the operative word mate. They ditched them...yet still got the could shoulder. Makes me wonder what's in store for Motomart down the track.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah WTF. When importers change dealerships they really do screw loyalty and the customer is left in the lurch putting them off the brand.

Yep. When they gave Garry and Steve the hard word, they kinda shot themselves in the foot really. Now, they have a franchise with three other labels as compared to the one other WMCC had, and no dealer in the central NI. It's odd.

Who'd like the job within HD, of telling long term dealers you're no longer wanted? What diploma do you need for that? A doctorate in cuntiness?

[Gremlin]

Yep. When they gave Garry and Steve the hard word, they kinda shot themselves in the foot really. Now, they have a franchise with three other labels as compared to the one other WMCC had, and no dealer in the central NI. It's odd.

Who'd like the job within HD, of telling long term dealers you're no longer wanted? What diploma do you need for that? A doctorate in cuntiness?
I'm sure in a little while they'll be scratching their heads as to why it's not working the way they expected...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I read some customer feedback from a customer that was not happy with the service from the new dealer who said they should go back to the old dealer who they bought the bike off with their problem but if the old dealer has go broke they are stuffed maybe.

The *Old Dealer* was Wellington Motorcycles. They haven't gone broke, they just got sick of being told what to do by Harley-Davidson Australia, so parted ways. They now sell Indians and lots of uses HD's instead.

[Moi]

Have H-D Australia studied at the Trump School of Diplomacy?

I'd lay money on the fact that the person who made the decision to drop a dealer sleeps well in their bed because they'd never have to face up to the dealer and tell them the news...

[Crasherfromwayback]

The post I replied to by merv was just making a generic comment in reply to him not mentioning any specific dealer or wholesaler either. The customer feedback I read was from a new ChCh dealers website and to do with another brand.

I see............

[Omega1]

No loyalty Eh that sucks for Anza especially if they were doing everything right, I see Auckland has two HD dealerships now and Motormart HD will be interesting ...

[Drew]

In Wellington, I can't see how they could possibly be shifting the same nmbet of new bikes, since WM stopped with them.

Near as I can tell, a huge portion of new Harley buyers went to Indian when scooter center did.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No loyalty Eh that sucks for Anza especially if they were doing everything right, I see Auckland has two HD dealerships now and Motormart HD will be interesting ...

I'm told ANZA had sold more HD's this year than they have for years. And with WMCC out of the picture, that's hardly surprising. Topped their spares sales records too. Still not enough eh.


In Wellington, I can't see how they could possibly be shifting the same nmbet of new bikes, since WM stopped with them.

Near as I can tell, a huge portion of new Harley buyers went to Indian when scooter center did.

I wouldn't say a huge number mate. But Garry was always gonna *convince* a certain amount of HD owners to go that way. But a lot of them are very brand loyal, even if the brand themselves aren't.


In ChCh most of the trade ins in the Indian dealership are Harley's so maybe it's a dying brand.

Well it stands to reason really. They're fighting for the same slice of pie.

[nzspokes]

Could they be looking at opening direct marketing shops? A lot of wholesalers are doing this now.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Could they be looking at opening direct marketing shops? A lot of wholesalers are doing this now.

I doubt it. Don't want to get their hands dirty. Suit wearers, all of them.

[nzspokes]

I doubt it. Don't want to get their hands dirty. Suit wearers, all of them.

They dont have to. Hire staff in said town and get a building. Stock it up and off you go.

A good few Aussie wholesalers are doing that now. Guess bikes could be different though.

[eldog]

Aussies think they know the NZ market.
The NZ market is quite different, quite often word of mouth and what you do defines who your customers are.


they have much higher turnover and money, compared to many NZ companies.

far to many companies been driven by accountants who have no loyalty.:no:

[eldog]

staff

Staff the number one problem still to face NZ.

plenty of numb nuts, not so many who can think for themselves

buildings and stock not such a problem.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I have had a couple of conversations with dealers and the way I heard it HD came to make the deal, not the other way around. Besides Auckland what city in NZ could sustain a single premium brand dealership like HD which has a very particular customer base? Not like Honda or Suzuki which do a bit of everything. I think if HD get too pushy with their new Wgtn outlet they might find themselves without a dealer between the Tron and ChCh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BMWST?]

I have had a couple of conversations with dealers and the way I heard it HD came to make the deal, not the other way around. Besides Auckland what city in NZ could sustain a single premium brand dealership like HD which has a very particular customer base? Not like Honda or Suzuki which do a bit of everything. I think if HD get too pushy with their new Wgtn outlet they might find themselves without a dealer between the Tron and ChCh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

from my casual observation of the wellington market they lost the best dealer in welly they could possibly have had.Whenever I went into WMCC there were several times more people in that shop than any other wellington shop,and at least half of them were on the harley side

[Crasherfromwayback]

I have had a couple of conversations with dealers and the way I heard it HD came to make the deal, not the other way around. Besides Auckland what city in NZ could sustain a single premium brand dealership like HD which has a very particular customer base? Not like Honda or Suzuki which do a bit of everything. I think if HD get too pushy with their new Wgtn outlet they might find themselves without a dealer between the Tron and ChCh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mate, hate to tell you...but Road & Sport Hamilton, Anza in Palmy and Rolling Thunder in CH CH are/were all sole HD dealerships. And no...you heard wrong. Anza were given the arse.

[Crasherfromwayback]

from my casual observation of the wellington market they lost the best dealer in welly they could possibly have had.Whenever I went into WMCC there were several times more people in that shop than any other wellington shop,and at least half of them were on the harley side

I have no doubt John Goss will make a good job of it at Motomart mate. But it takes a very long time to build up a loyal customer base like Garry and Steve had/have at WMCC.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Mate, hate to tell you...but Road & Sport Hamilton, Anza in Palmy and Rolling Thunder in CH CH are/were all sole HD dealerships. And no...you heard wrong. Anza were given the arse.

Nah I expressed it badly, I mean HD was approaching dealers in Wgtn to take them on. One guy told me he just laughed at them. Another picked his own terms rather than be told how it was, which seems to be the HD MO. You can work out who that was.
I stand corrected on the sole franchise thing but I thought ANZA had Hyosung as well. How they have been given the heave ho I have no knowledge of. My point still is though the market is too small in most parts of NZ to be tied to a single sector of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BMWST?]

I have no doubt John Goss will make a good job of it at Motomart mate. But it takes a very long time to build up a loyal customer base like Garry and Steve had/have at WMCC.
that was part of WMCC..same bike shop in welly for eons..all the others come and go....I bought 9 motorbikes from bike shops in welly and lower hutt over the years.Only one shop remains from that time

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nah I expressed it badly, I mean HD was approaching dealers in Wgtn to take them on. One guy told me he just laughed at them. Another picked his own terms rather than be told how it was, which seems to be the HD MO. You can work out who that was.
I stand corrected on the sole franchise thing but I thought ANZA had Hyosung as well. How they have been given the heave ho I have no knowledge of. My point still is though the market is too small in most parts of NZ to be tied to a single sector of it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ahhhh. I see mate! And yep, HD were sniffing around all of us in Welly. Interesting times ahead. I see in other news, HD are struggling to move their 2016 models which in turn is delaying the release of some of their new for 2017 models... Mmmmmm

Personally, I think some people in upper HD management need a new line of work.

[Crasherfromwayback]

that was part of WMCC..same bike shop in welly for eons..all the others come and go....I bought 9 motorbikes from bike shops in welly and lower hutt over the years.Only one shop remains from that time

Fuck yeah. Jesus Christ, I was there for 20 years!

[AllanB]

Christchurch has one dedicated HD shop. Been there for years. Appear to do very well taking money from old men.


Most shops are multi brand. i think this is really good, for the shop and buyers.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Christchurch has one dedicated HD shop. Been there for years. Appear to do very well taking money from old men.

.

And therein lies HD's biggest problem world wide. Need fresh meat. In the company too I reckon.

[pete-blen]

And therein lies HD's biggest problem world wide. Need fresh meat. In the company too I reckon.

So correct... but not just for HD..
in the late 70s early 80 30% of male licence holders also
had a motor bike licence... now it's only 7% ...




..

[jellywrestler]

Personally, I think some people in upper HD management need a new line of work.

like on the Jerry Springer Show?

[HenryDorsetCase]

that was part of WMCC..same bike shop in welly for eons..all the others come and go....I bought 9 motorbikes from bike shops in welly and lower hutt over the years.Only one shop remains from that time

I bought my very first road bike ever from WMCC in Welly. GSX400 FTW. It was end of 1981 I think.

[HenryDorsetCase]

And therein lies HD's biggest problem world wide. Need fresh meat. In the company too I reckon.

Aggressively doing the Dark Customs, marketing heavily to millennials and new platform driven by Euro 4 and 5 and equivalents.

I'd still like one. I just havent managed to liberate the fucking money.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Aggressively doing the Dark Customs, marketing heavily to millennials and new platform driven by Euro 4 and 5 and equivalents.

I'd still like one. I just havent managed to liberate the fucking money.

I reckon if I had access to their parts bins and drawing boards I could come up with something better.

[GrayWolf]

It's not just HD doing this,
think this type of 'bully tactics' was a big part of the reason TSS in Hutt has dropped Canam Spyders. {Yes we all know what some of you think about Spyders/riders} There are several manufacturers who now seem to be pushing this American/HD? notion of a 'Destination Dealer' single brand, ALL products, clothing, etc etc {including now some Japanese and European marques}. Along with a staggered trade discount aligned with how much of their product range you carry. Considering the size of the NZ population, and even adding Aussie it's less than 25 million. There just aren't enough people buying a single product to warrant the risk of single brand dealerships unless you are in a major city.
Could we end up with niche brands literally only being available from one or two shops Nationwide?
I ride a canam as well as 2 wheels, my ex has ridden a canam for 6yrs, at present the nearest 'dealer' is in Palmy North, if they go? What's her/our option? Main {destination dealer} in Auckland? Imagine the shipping costs to transport you niche brand bike' 3/4/600km's if broken down/crashed.
Will the Aussie main importers listen to NZ shops/importers? I've read threads where even certain models of Honda's etc are not going to be sold here/aussie, even if there may be sales for them.
How do we as the customer get these huge corporations to actually understand us as a 'small market', do they even really give a RATS ARSE about sales in NZ/Aus?

[nzspokes]

It's not just HD doing this,
think this type of 'bully tactics' was a big part of the reason TSS in Hutt has dropped Canam Spyders. {Yes we all know what some of you think about Spyders/riders} There are several manufacturers who now seem to be pushing this American/HD? notion of a 'Destination Dealer' single brand, ALL products, clothing, etc etc {including now some Japanese and European marques}. Along with a staggered trade discount aligned with how much of their product range you carry. Considering the size of the NZ population, and even adding Aussie it's less than 25 million. There just aren't enough people buying a single product to warrant the risk of single brand dealerships unless you are in a major city.
Could we end up with niche brands literally only being available from one or two shops Nationwide?
I ride a canam as well as 2 wheels, my ex has ridden a canam for 6yrs, at present the nearest 'dealer' is in Palmy North, if they go? What's her/our option? Main {destination dealer} in Auckland? Imagine the shipping costs to transport you niche brand bike' 3/4/600km's if broken down/crashed.
Will the Aussie main importers listen to NZ shops/importers? I've read threads where even certain models of Honda's etc are not going to be sold here/aussie, even if there may be sales for them.
How do we as the customer get these huge corporations to actually understand us as a 'small market', do they even really give a RATS ARSE about sales in NZ/Aus?

The hard thing for importers in NZ is getting floor space. So in some cases importers are bankrolling shops, so the shop owner just needs a lease and staff and the importer gives them everything on consignment or on long terms. Not talking motorcycle trade here as I dont deal with it. But this is happening with other trades. Problem you have then is the shop owner goes in with minimal capital then cant keep up with costs.

This is why you will start seeing more concept shops where the importer or manufacturer owns the shop.

[Madness]

Will the Aussie main importers listen to NZ shops/importers?

Will the NZ market stop undermining the viability of motorcycle dealerships by ceasing private imports of parts and accessories from larger markets? I don't think so. Best you get used to travelling to Auckland, pop.

[Ocean1]

Will the NZ market stop undermining the viability of motorcycle dealerships by ceasing private imports of parts and accessories from larger markets? I don't think so. Best you get used to travelling to Auckland, pop.

Are you suggesting that adding a zero to parts and accessories anyone with a computer can access is the only way motorcycle dealerships can remain viable?

Or does it also take workshop hourly rates of $140/hr?

[Madness]

Are you suggesting that adding a zero to parts and accessories anyone with a computer can access is the only way motorcycle dealerships can remain viable?

Or does it also take workshop hourly rates of $140/hr?

I'm suggesting that the trend over the past 5-10 years of not buying parts & accessories from the local motorcycle dealership is significantly contributing towards changes in that industry that will ultimately result in a reduction in consumer choice and local competition.

Pretty soon the reality might well be that there are only farm bike shops in the regional centres with less mainstream brands like Can-Am being supported by one or two dealerships nationwide. And no helmets with graphics, anywhere but online.

We should start getting used to it.

[Ocean1]

I'm suggesting that the trend over the past 5-10 years of not buying parts & accessories from the local motorcycle dealership is significantly contributing towards changes in that industry that will ultimately result in a reduction in consumer choice and local competition.

Pretty soon the reality might well be that there are only farm bike shops in the regional centres with less mainstream brands like Can-Am being supported by one or two dealerships nationwide. And no helmets with graphics, anywhere but online.

We should start getting used to it.

So, again, NZ businesses can only compete if their prices are much, much higher than they are overseas?

I'm not blaming them, or consumers, I'd just like to know why that's the case. So far I've not seen anyone adequately explained the reasons behind the New Zealand paradox: http://www.productivity.govt.nz/working-paper/an-international-perspective-on-the-new-zealand-productivity-paradox .

The closest I've seen for the ott costs charged here is attributed to the manufacturers/distributors: Because we can.

[Madness]

So, again, NZ businesses can only compete if their prices are much, much higher than they are overseas?

I'm not blaming them, or consumers, I'd just like to know why that's the case. So far I've not seen anyone adequately explained the reasons behind the New Zealand paradox: http://www.productivity.govt.nz/working-paper/an-international-perspective-on-the-new-zealand-productivity-paradox .

The closest I've seen for the ott costs charged here is attributed to the manufacturers/distributors: Because we can.

I might look at that link later, I'm supposed to be working (import/distribution, if you were wondering).

When I was a kid in the '80's life was pretty idyllic. The only time you got a glimpse into how NZ prices were disproportionately high compared to overseas was when Aunty Susan bought a toy catalogue back from a trip to Australia. I figure it's always been this way. What has changed is our awareness and access to other, larger markets where the prices are in many cases significantly less than local retail.

The way I see it is that none of us (first lie of the week) are cunts. The retailers and importers aren't cunts either. We live in a tiny country with massive distances from both manufacturing countries and larger consumer markets and we have a highly regulated marketplace. It's not rocket surgery why we're in the situation we're in and I see parallels between this and why a chocolate bar is $3 at Pak N Save and the same item is $5 at the local dairy.

As consumers the only options I see are to either change our purchasing habits (as you put it, add a zero), move to USA or suck it up and get used to our choices and competition at local retail level being further diminished.

[Ocean1]

We live in a tiny country with massive distances from both manufacturing countries and larger consumer markets and we have a highly regulated marketplace. It's not rocket surgery why we're in the situation we're in and I see parallels between this and why a chocolate bar is $3 at Pak N Save and the same item is $5 at the local dairy.
As consumers the only options I see are to either change our purchasing habits (as you put it, add a zero), move to USA or suck it up and get used to our choices and competition at local retail level being further diminished.

All of those differences fail to explain anything like the price disparities involved. I'll rephrase that: Across many studies, nobody has succeeded in finding any reason for the disparity in productive performance improvements and living standards in NZ.

Which is why it's called the NZ paradox. NZ ranks as one of the most productive countries in the world. According to the world's economic experts we're a textbook example for the rest of the world on how to manage an economy. GDP here has increased more than almost all of the OECD over the last several decades. And yet over the same timeframe our standard of living has improved much less than almost every other western world nation.

To me the reason's obvious: we pay more for everything than they do, much more. And our products sell for less overseas than they do here. Which sorta puts the lie to your transport cost theory. All of which simply pushes the question back a step, dunnut: Why?

BTW, our marketplace is among the least regulated on the planet.

[Madness]

All of those differences fail to explain anything like the price disparities involved. Why?

I thought the Pak N Save analogy was pretty simple really, maybe you're over-thinking it a little?

Let me help you by dumbing it down even further. Pak N Save order king-size chocolate blocks by the carton, which probably come from a national distribution centre that orders from the factory by the pallet (if not by the truckload) and ships a variety of bulk goods to each store location. The dairy buys 2-3 bars of any one variety at a time and the silly Nagi drives across town to pick up half a dozen bars each week, from Pak N Save. The dairy would turn over in a year what the Pak N Save he buys his chocolate bars from does in an hour. The dairy needs 30-40% to survive, Pak N Save operate on well less than 10% of a much larger turnover and most Pak N Save owners are worth millions.

Offshore bike dealers buy parts & accessories by the pallet and have a massive turnover compared to a local NZ bike dealership. Regardless of this, the local dealership is expected to keep a broad range of parts and accessories in stock, despite having a fraction of the turn-over. Voila! Higer prices. It's one of those situations where you can have any one of two out of three things but not all three.



BTW, our marketplace is among the least regulated on the planet.

That may well be, however expenses that small businesses in New Zealand face with a relatively limited turnover compared to larger offshore competition all contributes towards the need for a higher operating profit margin to pay the bills.

Hey, I'm not saying it's unfair, it's just life in modern New Zealand. We have other options though, per my previous post.

Or maybe it's just that the importers are all cunts and no-one's ever thought of or been prepared to break the mold with lower wholesale prices?

Maybe all the bike shops that have closed down in recent years were all owned by cunts who made so much money from raping us all those years that they all thought "fuck it" and went to the beach?

Nah, I reckon the answer to your paradox could be as simple as the fact that in a globalised economy the little fish are always going to struggle and we're (take this as NZ motorcyclists for the sake of relevance) about as small a fish as you can get.


GDP here has increased more than almost all of the OECD over the last several decades. And yet over the same timeframe our standard of living has improved much less than almost every other western world nation.

Take the Tiwai Point smelter, Taharoa Iron Sands and Fonterra out of our economy. What's left of any significance?

[Ocean1]

I thought the Pak N Save analogy was pretty simple really, maybe you're over-thinking it a little?

Let me help you by dumbing it down even further. Pak N Save order king-size chocolate blocks by the carton, which probably come from a national distribution centre that orders by the pallet and ships a variety of bulk goods to each store location. The dairy buys 2-3 bars of any one variety at a time and the silly Nagi drives across town to pick up half a dozen bars each week, from Pak N Save. The dairy would turn over in a year what the Pak N Save he buys his chocolate bars from does in an hour. The dairy needs 30-40% to survive, Pak N Save operate on well less than 10% of a much larger turnover.

Offshore bike dealers buy parts & accessories by the pallet and have a massive turnover compared to a local NZ bike dealership. Regardless of this, the local dealership is expected to keep a broad range of parts and accessories in stock, despite having a fraction of the turn-over. Voila! Higer prices. It's one of those situations where you can have any one of two out of three things but not all three.




That may well be, however expenses that small businesses in New Zealand face with a relatively limited turnover compared to larger offshore competition all contributes towards the need for a higher operating profit margin to pay the bills.

Hey, I'm not saying it's unfair, it's just life in modern New Zealand. We have other options though, per my previous post.

Or maybe it's just that the importers are all cunts and no-one's ever thought of or been prepared to prepared to break the mold with lower prices?

Maybe all the bike shops that have closed down in recent years were all owned by cunts who made so much money from raping us all those years that they all thought "fuck it" and went to the beach?

I reckon the answer to your paradox could be as simple as the fact that in a globalised economy the little fish are always going to struggle and we're (take this as NZ motorcyclists for the sake of relevance) about as small a fish as you can get.

So, to take your analogy a little further: why doesn't everyone bypass the corner dairy and buy their chocolate from Pak N Save? The answer, of course is that wherever possible they do. And, as I said where the market prevents that then the resulting price differences are well more than the pointy head dudes reckon can be explained by economies of scale. Or anything else.

WRT the bike industry in particular I don't actually have a problem so much with the price of new bikes. On the whole they seem not to be hideously more expensive than elsewhere. Those parts and accessories you mentioned are a problem. If the local shop was stocking all everything you say they are you might have a point, but they usually take longer to supply a given part than someone in the UK or Singapore AND charge over twice as much.

As for the closed shops: it's difficult to go past the observation that they just weren't offering anything their clients wanted to buy at the price. Reasons for failure don't come much more fundamental than that.

And yes, I think you're right re the fish. Which makes it hard to understand why the US and UK seen to think they're so hard done by recently. If they ever succeed in repatriating their manufacturing bases their prices will go through the roof. They've benefited from the big vs small market advantage for so long they don't see that the guys making their shit for a dollar an hour are the reason their shit is so cheap.

Interesting times, are they big enough to win an all out trade war?

[Madness]

Interesting times, are they big enough to win an all out trade war?

Interesting times alright.

My little corner of the world involves working for a small Kiwi company that's been growing turnover at a rate of between 15~20% each year with very little increase in head-count. Our distribution is mostly through small independent merchants and our strengths lie in the provinces, not Auckland. The competition can have Auckland.

We work along-side an Aussie company. Same product range, same distribution model via re-sellers. Their re-sellers carry a multitude of competing brands while our guys are mostly exclusive to us, or may have another brand, two at most. Our Aussie mates buy at the same USD factory price, their shipping costs are very similar. They turn over our annual sales figure in a good month and have distribution centres in each state. Their retail prices are significantly cheaper than ours for the same products, so much so it gives me the shits when I see the disparity.

Fortunately for us, the internet phenomenon doesn't seem to work for all products. Our market segment doesn't seem to like e-commerce and I'm quite happy to be selling to small business owners who make their own decisions at store level. Meanwhile, the corporates and foreigners are all down-scaling, consolidating or pulling out.

Incidentally, my boss just bought a new-to-him used car and we're both working again tomorrow.

[Ocean1]

Interesting times alright.

My little corner of the world involves working for a small Kiwi company that's been growing turnover at a rate of between 15~20% each year with very little increase in head-count. Our distribution is mostly through small independent merchants and our strengths lie in the provinces, not Auckland. The competition can have Auckland.

We work along-side an Aussie company. Same product range, same distribution model via re-sellers. Their re-sellers carry a multitude of competing brands while our guys are mostly exclusive to us, or may have another brand, two at most. Our Aussie mates buy at the same USD factory price, their shipping costs are very similar. They turn over our annual sales figure in a good month and have distribution centres in each state. Their retail prices are significantly cheaper than ours for the same products, so much so it gives me the shits when I see the disparity.

Fortunately for us, the internet phenomenon doesn't seem to work for all products. Our market segment doesn't seem to like e-commerce and I'm quite happy to be selling to small business owners who make their own decisions at store level. Meanwhile, the corporates and foreigners are all down-scaling, consolidating or pulling out.

Incidentally, my boss just bought a new-to-him used car and we're both working again tomorrow.

Aye. I find myself in a similarly unique place. Only I'm working tomorrow to pay the tax man, fuck the boss.

Possible partial answer: http://sciblogs.co.nz/a-measure-of-science/2010/03/18/new-zealands-productivity-paradox-part-i-2/

[HenryDorsetCase]

Lets not forget it was said when registration went up motorcycle sales in NZ would take a dive resulting in shops closing down. So all those on here happy paying the higher registration fees can not complain about shops closing down.

bro, do you even logic?

[Madness]

bro, do you even logic?

...or Google shit? (http://www.mia.org.nz/Sales-Data/Motorcycle-Sales)

[Berries]

Whoa. Back the fucking truck up.

Madness has a job?

[Madness]

Whoa. Back the fucking truck up.

Madness has a job?

That's right sunshine and it ain't just drawing pictures of roundabouts all day either.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Lets not forget it was said when registration went up motorcycle sales in NZ would take a dive resulting in shops closing down. So all those on here happy paying the higher registration fees can not complain about shops closing down.

Have another go. Use English.

[RDJ]

So - who is now the go-to HD mechanic in the Manawatu..? Any recommendations appreciated.

[jellywrestler]

So - who is now the go-to HD mechanic in the Manawatu..? Any recommendations appreciated.

any John Deere place will have the tools, and the hoists.

[riffer]

Doug Allan, mechanic at ANZA, has set up a workshop at his place to service bikes.

[RDJ]

Doug Allan, mechanic at ANZA, has set up a workshop at his place to service bikes.

Thank you riffer, most useful.

[MD]

Let me tell you a story as to why I feel for ANZA being betrayed. Not living in PN I have never been a customer.

In a galaxy a long time ago...circa 2004 a young Whitetrash (Jimmie) at Wgtn Motorcycle Centre sells me a new Triumph America. I take the next day (Friday) off work to run it in. About Fielding late in the afternoon one of the battery terminals snaps off. I WAS NOT TRYING TO WHEELIE IT. Even Jimmie or Drew couldn't wheelie a gutless 54 hp America.

It's close to closing time on Friday 4.30-ish. I ring WMCC telling them I stuck in bloody nowhere and can't get home. I'm sure I heard duelling banjos in the distance. WMCC ring ANZA (sorry I can't remember which good bloke did this). Pushing my finger under the seat I press the terminal in place and the bike reluctantly fires up and limps to Palmerston North. Kept dying so it took a while.The Mechanic Lads stayed well after hours waiting for me and welded the terminal back enough to get me home.

This has always stuck with me. Motorbike shops may commercially compete but above all else they are trying their best to serve use Riders. Support your local shop whenever you can.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. I WAS NOT TRYING TO WHEELIE IT. Even Jimmie or Drew couldn't wheelie a gutless 54 hp America.

.

I call bullshit. You all could.

[Owl]

Fuck I must be living under a rock, as this is news to me and I only live just down the road.:facepalm:

Just said to the Mrs, did you know Anza------------and she said yeah, they were talking about that at the pub a couple of months ago.:blink: Think I must've been distracted by the hot barmaid.:whistle:

[Madness]

Think I must've been distracted by the hot barmaid.:whistle:

Which pub?

[Owl]

Which pub?

Rex's though said barmaid has since left.

[FJRider]

Lets not forget it was said when registration went up motorcycle sales in NZ would take a dive resulting in shops closing down. So all those on here happy paying the higher registration fees can not complain about shops closing down.

Do you remember who "IT" was that said that ... ???

Few are "Happy" to pay the increased vehicle licensing costs ... but have little choice if they wish to (legally) ride their motorcycle.

The higher licensing costs are not solely to blame for all (motorcycle ?) shops closing. Motorcycle sales ... are only a part of the a income.

The motorcyclist's right to complain about shops closing is debatable ... especially if they buy anything/everything motorcycle related online. Use them ... or lose them ...

[old slider]

Do you remember who "IT" was that said that ... ???

Few are "Happy" to pay the increased vehicle licensing costs ... but have little choice if they wish to (legally) ride their motorcycle.

The higher licensing costs are not solely to blame for all (motorcycle ?) shops closing. Motorcycle sales ... are only a part of the a income.

The motorcyclist's right to complain about shops closing is debatable ... especially if they buy anything/everything motorcycle related online. Use them ... or lose them ...


Just spent a few months going through this argument with my self.

Yes, I could buy the components from overseas cheaper, but then after adding freight, possible taxes, then thinking what if any of the components fail?
Then I factored in that through mainly a lack of confidence and also few mechanical skills I would have to get someone else to do the work.

So went straight to the guys that specialize and spend week in and week out doing the type of work that I needed done.

No brainer really.

I think Doug Allan is going to be busy. I will definitely make the trip down for any work that needs doing.

[RDJ]

Met up with Doug on the weekend to drop off the venerable and ratty (in a good way) '02 FXDXT for top rebuild, forks, brakes. I feel my bike is in very good and skilled hands. Excellently equipped workshop too.

[old slider]

Met up with Doug on the weekend to drop off the venerable and ratty (in a good way) '02 FXDXT for top rebuild, forks, brakes. I feel my bike is in very good and skilled hands. Excellently equipped workshop too.

That is good news. Fingers crossed I wont need to see Doug for awhile. KSS is going to leave me a bit lighter in the bank account after the front and rear suspension upgrades are completed, but hopefully my old back will thank me.

[RDJ]

Update:

I'd taken the '02 Dyna to Doug to do the cam chain tensioner upgrade, (just in time by the look of them), fix my front brake lines (previously a bit butchered overseas when the higher bars went on), and rebuild my (leaking) fork seals.

I picked up the bike last night and it was a pleasure to ride - so much so I took off up the Paras just because. Should've worn autumn-weather gear though :-)

Doug did a terrific job in my opinion and was a pleasure to deal with. I'll be baaaack there for sure when I next need work done.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Update:

I'd taken the '02 Dyna to Doug to do the cam chain tensioner upgrade, (just in time by the look of them), .

You'll gen get about 60,000km's out of them before they fail.

[RDJ]

You'll gen get about 60,000km's out of them before they fail.

Definitely close then. (Had been putting it off with no good excuse).

I couldn't see the difference till Doug pointed it out but one was a lot worse then the other.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Definitely close then. (Had been putting it off with no good excuse).

I couldn't see the difference till Doug pointed it out but one was a lot worse then the other.

Yep. The twin cam is a fucking good motor. They got that bit a lil wrong though. All good once up graded. I've seen some big power out of them with no trouble whatsoever.

[old slider]

Yep. The twin cam is a fucking good motor. They got that bit a lil wrong though. All good once up graded. I've seen some big power out of them with no trouble whatsoever.


Good afternoon Crasherfrom wayback,


The upgrade you mention re the cam chain tensioner.

Do you know if the 1580cc twin cam 96 motors have similar Cam chain tensioner issues? or should I be doing the upgrade before 60k reads on the dial.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Good afternoon Crasherfrom wayback,


The upgrade you mention re the cam chain tensioner.

Do you know if the 1580cc twin cam 96 motors have similar Cam chain tensioner issues? or should I be doing the upgrade before 60k reads on the dial.

Hey mate. I think from memory the 1584 had gone to the solid bronze bush setup. Having said that, at around 60k you'll need to do the slippers if you have big cams in it. On std cams you can normally run that out to around 80k. There's a needle bearing in the cases that needs doing around then as well.

Cheers,

Pete

[old slider]

Hey mate. I think from memory the 1584 had gone to the solid bronze bush setup. Having said that, at around 60k you'll need to do the slippers if you have big cams in it. On std cams you can normally run that out to around 80k. There's a needle bearing in the cases that needs doing around then as well.

Cheers,

Pete


Awesome, thanks heaps mate. Gives me a little peace of mind.

[Big Doug SG]

Thanks rdj, good to see you are happy with the work and your bike,as for cam chain tensioners pete have seen them fail at 30k and some are good at 80k no rhyme or reason,but the hydraulic upgrade is better as the shoe material is better.

[Crasherfromwayback]

as the shoe material is better.

Good to see you doing the bizz Doug. Long may it continue.

[awayatc]

Done mine at 60.000 kms....it definitely needed it by then.
The shoes were about to break.
Well worn.

Bought the tool required for the job ex Merica.
With the proper extractor easy job.

Will sell if somebody is interested...

[old slider]

I am considering the V & H Hi-Output 2 into 1 short exhaust for the Fat Bob, I am not intending to do any engine improvements since adding the SE Hi flow air filter and getting the SE super tuner. The Original exhaust had the headers cut open and the CV removed, the standard mufflers were also removed and modified to Performance Research specs (what ever that means)? work done was through Wellington Motorcycles and the previous owner at 1600kms. The bike runs very well and the new suspension upgrades should improve the ride, but is a bit too quiet for my liking, not too worried if the 2 into 1 gives little performance improvement, but really hoping it will improve the sound.

Anyone on the forum installed the short 2into 1 Hi output ?

[Crasherfromwayback]

I am considering the V & H Hi-Output 2 into 1 short exhaust for the Fat Bob, I am not intending to do any engine improvements since adding the SE Hi flow air filter and getting the SE super tuner. The Original exhaust had the headers cut open and the CV removed, the standard mufflers were also removed and modified to Performance Research specs (what ever that means)? work done was through Wellington Motorcycles and the previous owner at 1600kms. The bike runs very well and the new suspension upgrades should improve the ride, but is a bit too quiet for my liking, not too worried if the 2 into 1 gives little performance improvement, but really hoping it will improve the sound.

Anyone on the forum installed the short 2into 1 Hi output ?

They're great. I wouldn't use anything other than a 2-1 on them. All the std systems have cross over pipes , they run far nicer than one with two sep exhausts. Performance Research was just what WMCC used to call stuff they'de made and tested on their Dyno.

[old slider]

They're great. I wouldn't use anything other than a 2-1 on them. All the std systems have cross over pipes , they run far nicer than one with two sep exhausts. Performance Research was just what WMCC used to call stuff they'de made and tested on their Dyno.


Awesome, thanks heaps, the info and experience shared freely on this forum is priceless to us less knowledgeable types..

[Crasherfromwayback]

Awesome, thanks heaps, the info and experience shared freely on this forum is priceless to us less knowledgeable types..

I'll tell ya a crazy thing that I'd never have believed had I not seen it myself on the dyno. When using ex rap (yeah I know!), you can move the torque curve up and down the rev range a wee bit depending on how long you rap the headers.

[old slider]

I'll tell ya a crazy thing that I'd never have believed had I not seen it myself on the dyno. When using ex rap (yeah I know!), you can move the torque curve up and down the rev range a wee bit depending on how long you rap the headers.

Amazing things exhausts, Ron Grant back in the late 70s managed to pull some more boogey out of my old XS650 playing with the exhaust system, mind you the Kenny Roberts bits he sourced also helped. lol

I was surprised how much longer and quicker the revs were on the FB after the simple Hi flow air filter and re tune were done.

[husaberg]

I'll tell ya a crazy thing that I'd never have believed had I not seen it myself on the dyno. When using ex rap (yeah I know!), you can move the torque curve up and down the rev range a wee bit depending on how long you rap the headers.

The heat and subsequent heat loss of the pipe effects the heat of exhaust gasses, ergo it effects the length at which it resonates.
modern two strokes use both heavily retarded timming and fine control of electric powerjets after peak power to put additional heat into the exhaust, there by making it respond as if the tunned length was actually shorter.
They also use carbon sheilds to prevent exposed areas of chamber being cooled at high speed.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=304385&d=1413875766

[awayatc]

Anyone on the forum installed the short 2into 1 Hi output ?

Did have Python 2 in 1 on mine.
Looked great..
More groundclearance cornering.
Sounds was nice and deep. But to loud for my liking.
Oh yes it did make it run a bit better....(seat of pants)

[old slider]

Did have Python 2 in 1 on mine.
Looked great..
More groundclearance cornering.
Sounds was nice and deep. But to loud for my liking.
Oh yes it did make it run a bit better....(seat of pants)


Thanks awayatc, looks like there is an optional quiet baffle that can be purchased with the V & H exhaust, I currently struggle to hear my bike with helmet on at highway speeds, mind you the wife says I never listen.

[riffer]

The heat and subsequent heat loss of the pipe effects the heat of exhaust gasses, ergo it effects the length at which it resonates.
modern two strokes use both heavily retarded timming and fine control of electric powerjets after peak power to put additional heat into the exhaust, there by making it respond as if the tunned length was actually shorter.
They also use carbon sheilds to prevent exposed areas of chamber being cooled at high speed.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=304385&d=1413875766

You know, until your post, I was about to tell crasherfromwayback his post was the biggest load of shite I've ever heard. Now I'm gonna have to think about that. :confused:

[Crasherfromwayback]

You know, until your post, I was about to tell crasherfromwayback his post was the biggest load of shite I've ever heard. Now I'm gonna have to think about that. :confused:

You'd be most welcome to. But you'd be calling me a liar, and I'd tell you to get fucked. One thing Dynos can't do mate...is lie. And only one of us is a mechanic by trade...

[old slider]

They're great. I wouldn't use anything other than a 2-1 on them. All the std systems have cross over pipes , they run far nicer than one with two sep exhausts. Performance Research was just what WMCC used to call stuff they'de made and tested on their Dyno.


Thanks Guys for all the responses and sharing of knowledge and experience.

The 2 into 1 Hi output exhaust is on its way with some new seals. Big thanks to Pete, (motorcycle Alley) another good bugger who went out of his way to give me good advice and service.

Been a big month for the old girl with front and rear suspension upgrades happening and a new exhaust system. I had no intention of doing any upgrades when I got it just over a year ago, Bikes are funny bloody things, no wonder they get given girls names.

[Crasherfromwayback]

. Big thanks to Pete, (motorcycle Alley)

He'd have to be a good cunt with a name like that.

[old slider]

He'd have to be a good cunt with a name like that.


Lol, yes it seems to be the name of a few good buggers.

[husaberg]

You know, until your post, I was about to tell crasherfromwayback his post was the biggest load of shite I've ever heard. Now I'm gonna have to think about that. :confused:

The gains and variation on a Harley are of course less than a two stroke, but it is a real phenomenon.
All you are doing is increasing of decreasing the temp and speed of the exhaust gasses. Hence the effective tuned length of the pipe.
Thats why all decent exhaust pipe calculators use the exhaust gas speed.

[Katman]

It's the same theory behind the HPC coating of exhausts.

[husaberg]

It's the same theory behind the HPC coating of exhausts.

Not really, the ceramic coating is to keep the heat within the exhaust rather than a variable manipulation of an exhaust tuned length. The response of the coating only effects the tunned length which is irrelevant as they are application specific.
2 stroke expansion chambers require different lengths depending on the gauge or the material ie mild steel or SS or TI. But this is factored in at design stage
HPC like coatings do have advatages when used on internal components such as combustion chambers. as they prevent heat disipation and mitigation which (additionally) also helps burn off deposits
But it’s mostly to look pretty and be durable on exhausts.
It does have an advantage of not transferring the heat to the engine ancillaries though which i actually the real reason Nascars actually used heat wrap, mainly to stop the alternator cooking and other heat soak to engine and carb etc.

[Katman]

Not really, the ceramic coating is to keep the heat within the exhaust rather than a variable manipulation of an exhaust tuned length.

Of course the coating doesn't provide variable manipulation, you fucking moron. Once it's on, it's on.

The theory is the same though in that it increases the exhaust gas temperature and therefore the exhaust gas velocity.

[old slider]

Nice to see the ANZA Harley boys working out of City Honda in Palmerston North.

Nothing better than talking to guys who know their Brand and when leaving your bike knowing it is in good hands.

Big thanks as well to Crasherfromwayback for giving me the heads up on a couple of things that I needed to research.

great site this Kiwi biker.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nice to see the ANZA Harley boys working out of City Honda in Palmerston North.

Nothing better than talking to guys who know their Brand and when leaving your bike knowing it is in good hands.

Big thanks as well to Crasherfromwayback for giving me the heads up on a couple of things that I needed to research.

great site this Kiwi biker.

We're about to have one of NZ's best HD mechanics join us at Boyle Kawasaki. Paul Grant who has been at WMCC for the past many years.

[old slider]

We're about to have one of NZ's best HD mechanics join us at Boyle Kawasaki. Paul Grant who has been at WMCC for the past many years.


That sort of experience is usually worth its weight in gold.

[Crasherfromwayback]

That sort of experience is usually worth its weight in gold.

Yep. He's been around the traps for years. Be good to be working with him again.

[old slider]

Yep. He's been around the traps for years. Be good to be working with him again.

If Stu or Doug are unable to find the reason for my intermittent loud siren type noise coming from under the fuel tank I may have to seek him out.

None of the diagnostics are showing anything apart from a weird response from fuel. the sound is louder than the horn, did it 2 or 3 times on the trip to Palmy cruising at legal speed, I thought it was the alarm at first, but no lights flashing, no alerts on dash etc and not quite the same sound. I don't know if the fuel pump could emit such a loud noise?

[Ocean1]

intermittent loud siren type noise coming from under the fuel tank

Seems unlikely in a HD, but I wonder if it might not be... the engine?

[old slider]

Seems unlikely in a HD, but I wonder if it might not be... the engine?


Fingers crossed its not. The engine was running and as far as I could tell is running sweet as a nut, the comp diagnostics gave thumbs up codes for everything except a weird response to fuel, the techs were scratching their heads, but said will investigate.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I don't know if the fuel pump could emit such a loud noise?

I'm pretty sure the fuel pump wouldn't be able to make any noises you'd hear at open road speeds.

[old slider]

I'm pretty sure the fuel pump wouldn't be able to make any noises you'd hear at open road speeds.


Thanks Mate, I am clutching at straws, but if that wild Banshi sound came from the engine it scares the shit out of my wallet.

[jellywrestler]

Thanks Mate, I am clutching at straws, but if that wild Banshi sound came from the engine it scares the shit out of my wallet.

how long did it last for? did it change level on revs? did it dissappear when you pulled the clutch in?

[old slider]

how long did it last for? did it change level on revs? did it dissappear when you pulled the clutch in?

just happened with a sudden short squeal sound, sometimes 2 or 3 short squeals, quite unexpectedly, it stops as quickly as it starts, by the time you look at the speedo or touch the clutch its gone again, on the 2nd time I pulled over to the road side and everything seemed fine, so took of again and about 8-10 mins later it happened again, this high pitched sound happened 3-4 times between lake Alice and about 10 miles out of Palmy. I even pressed the horn to get a sound comparison, the horn is way more quieter.

it is not a sound I can recall ever hearing before regarding bikes or engines, could a bearing shell or something in the rocker gear make that sort of noise?

[Crasherfromwayback]

, could a bearing shell or something in the rocker gear make that sort of noise?

Nah. They're just ticking along. Have you tried it with the fuel tank cap off, to see if it's louder, then maybe coming from the pump?

[Ocean1]

just happened with a sudden short squeal sound, sometimes 2 or 3 short squeals, quite unexpectedly, it stops as quickly as it starts, by the time you look at the speedo or touch the clutch its gone again, on the 2nd time I pulled over to the road side and everything seemed fine, so took of again and about 8-10 mins later it happened again, this high pitched sound happened 3-4 times between lake Alice and about 10 miles out of Palmy. I even pressed the horn to get a sound comparison, the horn is way more quieter.

it is not a sound I can recall ever hearing before regarding bikes or engines, could a bearing shell or something in the rocker gear make that sort of noise?

Starter clutch?

As in a starter switch short...

[old slider]

Nah. They're just ticking along. Have you tried it with the fuel tank cap off, to see if it's louder, then maybe coming from the pump?

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I left the Bike in Palmy, will travel back next week and see what the verdict is, in my opinion the engine is running perfectly, was no unusual noises going from a standstill to up to 125 through all the gears, or changing down the gears, just seemed to happen for no reason when cruising around the 100 mark, didn't do it around town, is farking weird.

[Owl]

just happened with a sudden short squeal sound, sometimes 2 or 3 short squeals, quite unexpectedly,

Your missus didn't fall off the back by any chance?:whistle:

[old slider]

Your missus didn't fall off the back by any chance?:whistle:


You obviously don't know her, be way more than just a couple of scornful noises, Hers would be way louder, way longer and leave you in no doubt as to what the problem was, trust me.

[RDJ]

Could be wrong, but I would second that suggestion about a starter short; I briefly had something similar when heavy rain shorted out a set of Joker hand controls and the starter motor would randomly come on and grind away...

[old slider]

Could be wrong, but I would second that suggestion about a starter short; I briefly had something similar when heavy rain shorted out a set of Joker hand controls and the starter motor would randomly come on and grind away...


Cheers RDJ, plenty of things to check out. just wish I could get it to make the noise on request, would be so much easier than trying to suss it out whilst riding, maybe I will have to find a dyno.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Cheers RDJ, plenty of things to check out. just wish I could get it to make the noise on request, would be so much easier than trying to suss it out whilst riding, maybe I will have to find a dyno.

Come down to Welly mate. Bruce Lewis has WMCC's old dyno round the corner from us.

[jellywrestler]

this high pitched sound happened 3-4 times between lake Alice and about 10 miles out of Palmy. I even pressed the horn to get a sound comparison, the horn is way more quieter.

$10 says it's an airforce plane doing some testing in the air above then.

[T.W.R]

Could possibly be something to do with the primary chain tensioner assembly or the compensator......some models had issues with these :yes:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Could possibly be something to do with the primary chain tensioner assembly or the compensator......some models had issues with these :yes:

Yeah. When the compensator comes loose, they knock like all fuck.

[T.W.R]

Yeah. When the compensator comes loose, they knock like all fuck.

Could imagine that...it's a big hunk of steel to be hammering around in a confined space. I was just thinking along the lines of excessive float for that and allowing the tensioner to over tighten causing a whine etc....harmonic distortion & such like

[old slider]

Could imagine that...it's a big hunk of steel to be hammering around in a confined space. I was just thinking along the lines of excessive float for that and allowing the tensioner to over tighten causing a whine etc....harmonic distortion & such like


you buggers are starting to scare me now.

Hey crasher, cheers mate, I am hoping Stu and Doug can solve the riddle. but if not Wellington could be next on the list, although Floody in NP is also on my list.

[Crasherfromwayback]

you buggers are starting to scare me now.

.

I wouldn't worry too much about it mate. They're pretty robust.

[old slider]

331858


Rapt with the work from Doug and Stu, the mysterious intermittent wailing sound has not raised its head since the new exhaust system was fitted, quite a bit of test riding was completed with the Pro super tuner plugged in recording several 15-20 min runs so that a decent remap could be programmed.

The removal of the old dynamic exhaust fitted with exhaust valve and elec motor, plus the addition of these new pipes has seen an amazing change in the bike, mid range torque is vastly improved and the ride home was bloody awesome.

My only concern is maybe the loudness of these pipes when twisting the go faster thingy, but at cruising speed it has a wonderful sound, to me it purrs like a lion.

Thanks to Pete and the others offering advice, the unknown sound has vanished, along with a lot of other little noises with this exhaust "muffling" them out, lol

[Crasherfromwayback]

[


The removal of the old dynamic exhaust fitted with exhaust valve and elec motor, plus the addition of these new pipes has seen an amazing change in the bike, mid range torque is vastly improved and the ride home was bloody awesome.

l

Nice. Looks great too mate. Glad it's fixed some things as an extra bonus.