Te Anau Crash

[Paul in NZ]

Hmmm - You would seriously have to ask how this sort of thing could have occurred... There have been so many incidents down there that you would need to think twice about visiting that part of the country during the peak season?? Is the pressure of tourism and time tables just too much for the infrastructure??

I mean its a terrible thing - the driver (and maybe passenger) in the car burnt to death.... I couldn't think of a worse fate than this, and my heart goes out to their families...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90685512/Witnesses-tried-to-help-man-trapped-in-car-after-bus-crash-before-it-burst-into-flames

So - How did both vehicles ended up were they did?? Is it just me or is that bus on the wrong side of the road?

Jeeze

[oldrider]

That report made me feel sick! :facepalm:

[EJK]

I wonder if the bus swerved to try and avoid hitting the car making a U turn. If the car was making a U turn in front of the bus this would be the second fatal crash caused by a tourist making a U turn this year. Luckily this time it was the tourists themselves and not inoccent others. I went past the scene of the Akaroa road bus crash at the weekend and the bus driver claimed to the media his brakes failed but there were big skid marks where the bus went off which would not indicate brake failure to me.

Some Korean witnesses following the tour bus said the car coming the other way crossed over the line prior to collision.

But if that statement is true, then how the hell did the bus end up on the other side of the road over the bank? Shouldn't the bus be forced off the road?

[EJK]

I would question how people following behind the bus could see what was happening in front of the bus anyway.

They have eyes, you know. Not big tho.

But upon further thought I redact my initial statement. The bus driver may have turned hard right trying to avoid the oncoming car, if that statement is true.

[Paul in NZ]

Either way there's something really wrong here... Or maybe not... I dunno... Too much traffic on that road, maybe the mono rail wasn't such a daft idea.

[TheDemonLord]

Either way there's something really wrong here... Or maybe not... I dunno... Too much traffic on that road, maybe the mono rail wasn't such a daft idea.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM

[Katman]

Because a thread about someone burning to death in a car accident is just crying out for a Simpson's skit.

:facepalm:

[JimO]

all the touristy areas have problems with bad driving (mostly by tourists) at the weekend we flew to Nelson and on Saturday drove over to Takaka the road is narrow and winding. I lost count of the number of rental cars over the centre line then on Sunday drove over to Picton, same thing, abysmal driving, add to that the freedom camper types in their shitty old vans holding traffic up, no passing lanes and no where to pass

[R650R]

So - How did both vehicles ended up were they did?? Is it just me or is that bus on the wrong side of the road?

Jeeze

On a big linehaul truck theres very little holding the front axle on, couple half inch bolts clamping it (or similar setup) to leaf springs/shock/control arms. Off course those bolts are strong in one direction but not in shear for the side load (as far as bolt concerned) of a front head on collision. I expect on small/light bus the bolts are even smaller.
Its quite common in truck accident for the truck to lose its steering on impact because of this (and then end up pointing anywhere), newer trucks have front under run protection which helps a little.

I had a DUI double cab Datsun take the front axle off my 44 tonne linehaul truck, worst thing was I turned to try use them empty side of the road he was supposed to be on, impact turned the tractor unit more then viola, no steering, no lights and half my brakes available ( service line sheared). Its an errie feeling to be surfing across the road on your engine sump with no lights heading towards a tree lined property. Ended up on someones front lawn, back of trailer on footpath.

[jellywrestler]

So - How did both vehicles ended up were they did?? Is it just me or is that bus on the wrong side of the road?

Jeeze

head on on bus's side of the road but due to the weight differences and the bus's steering probably being fucked it kept on going further than the impact point veering over the wrong side of the road, or the bus driver fucked up, medical incident and crossed into oncoming cars path....., be pretty easy to see when the smoke clears.

[Gremlin]

But if that statement is true, then how the hell did the bus end up on the other side of the road over the bank? Shouldn't the bus be forced off the road?
A car isn't going to change the direction of a bus, merely slow it down a little. That all said, the drivers that are carefully trained (tankers etc) know they're best to steer straight ahead and brake as hard as possible. Most efficient way to lose as much speed as possible in minimum distance, plus you don't risk the stability of the load as much.

[caspernz]

all the touristy areas have problems with bad driving (mostly by tourists) at the weekend we flew to Nelson and on Saturday drove over to Takaka the road is narrow and winding. I lost count of the number of rental cars over the centre line then on Sunday drove over to Picton, same thing, abysmal driving, add to that the freedom camper types in their shitty old vans holding traffic up, no passing lanes and no where to pass

Yes tourists show up in some situations, but in my experience the local drivers with bad training, no patience and scant regard for the road code...just as bad. Purely anecdotal evidence of a few million kms driving.


A car isn't going to change the direction of a bus, merely slow it down a little. That all said, the drivers that are carefully trained (tankers etc) know they're best to steer straight ahead and brake as hard as possible. Most efficient way to lose as much speed as possible in minimum distance, plus you don't risk the stability of the load as much.

The mantra of hold your line whilst you drop speed, before considering direction change is not going to be liked by civilian tin top pilots. Hard to drum into some lads, until they've had a go in the tanker with training wheels that is.

[BMWST?]

75 percent at least of the actual cars on that road would be rentals.Add in busus and aforementioned "camper vans" and actual camper vans and you have a terrible mix.I would say that the vast majority of kiwi drivers would find that road cjallenging,let alone tourists who may have never driven on a rad like that before.Athe final positions of vehicles AFTER and accident is not always indicitave of where they were going before the accident..If the car was on the wrong side of the road the bus proabaly swerved to the right,swerving to the left would put them off the road

[Berries]

Some big assumptions in this thread at such an early stage.

Any road, if anyone really is worried about bloody tourists, there were eight fatal crashes on state highways in Southland last year. One involved a tourist, Korean as it happens. As is always the case, you are far more likely to be killed or maimed by a local, it is just that that no longer sells papers because we are immune to it.

Take buses out of the equation and what do you reckon, 80% of traffic on the Milford Road being tourists? Stands to reason that 80% of crashes will involve them. It surprises me that people are surprised by this.

[Katman]

Some big assumptions in this thread at such an early stage.

Any road, if anyone really is worried about bloody tourists, there were eight fatal crashes on state highways in Southland last year. One involved a tourist, Korean as it happens. As is always the case, you are far more likely to be killed or maimed by a local, it is just that that no longer sells papers because we are immune to it.

Take buses out of the equation and what do you reckon, 80% of traffic on the Milford Road being tourists? Stands to reason that 80% of crashes will involve them. It surprises me that people are surprised by this.

Hey, at least TDL is trying to make a joke of it.

[Virago]

My wife and I have spent a fair amount of time in Central Otago this Spring / Summer / Autumn - i.e. peak tourist season. We developed a bit of a game of "spot the Asian in the rental car".

It's fairly easy. Late-model car (usually "K" reg), and usually a cross-over type vehicle. Driving speed will be extremely erratic, cornering will be hair-raising, the driver will have no ability to stay in their lane, and intersections will have them completely flummoxed. They appear to have no recognition of other road users.

We would often confirm when we could, and sure enough, a little yellow guy with white knuckles.

The moral of the story is - don't trust a driver who can be blindfolded with a bootlace.

[Akzle]

i think the REAL question this thread raises, is: whether KB should have a moratorium on posting, linking, referencing, or citing "stuff.co.nz".


also whether being old and white is proper and sufficient grounds for complaining about "those foreigners" in a country they've only been in a couple hundred years.[/LIST]

[Moise]

Maybe even better not to comment / speculate on serious accidents until the facts are known.

Sent from somewhere using Tapatalk

[Coldrider]

i think the REAL question this thread raises, is: whether KB should have a moratorium on posting, linking, referencing, or citing "stuff.co.nz".


also whether being old and white is proper and sufficient grounds for complaining about "those foreigners" in a country they've only been in a couple hundred years.[/LIST]having been up in Auckland more frequently than usual, I don't consider Auckland to be in Aotearoa any more. 80,000 people flying in every year, diluting something...even if they have to borrow a boat, or bike.

[Berries]

I would say that the vast majority of kiwi drivers would find that road cjallenging,let alone tourists who may have never driven on a rad like that before.
Lets not get too carried away. It's a great driving/riding road with fantastic scenery to distract you but the only thing relatively unique is its remoteness and fact it is one giant cul-de-sac resulting in no through traffic and thus a high proportion of visitor drivers. Take that away and there are roads like that all over the world.

Random Google of best driving roads. (http://www.avisbestroad.com/uk/the-top-25-roads/)

[MD]

I found it ghoulish that Stuff posted; before, during and after the fire pictures to better shock us that these action shots capture two people who were 1. hurt, terrified and about to die, 2. dying and by 3rd picture dead, reduced to ashes.

My buddies and I that have done an annual South Island ride for many years all feel that our greatest danger is no longer our desire for speed - which I would say has been slightly reined in, but the stupidity of foreign drivers.

Each year we have more 'holy crap' moments with cars/vans coming at us on the wrong side or stopping in the middle of the road on blind spots to take selfies.

[SuperMac]

A car isn't going to change the direction of a bus, merely slow it down a little. That all said, the drivers that are carefully trained (tankers etc) know they're best to steer straight ahead and brake as hard as possible. Most efficient way to lose as much speed as possible in minimum distance, plus you don't risk the stability of the load as much.

Looking at the damage to the bus, the car impacted on the front right, then the bus rode up over. At that point the driver would have lost steering control.

Looks quite a camber there, that might have had an effect on direction of travel.

[Paul in NZ]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90820277/bus-company-involved-in-te-anau-crash-says-car-crossed-centre-line

[Coldrider]

Just a simple question, per hour, how much does a bus driver get paid?

[neels]

Sucks for the bus driver, and the people who turned up on the scene and watched the car burn, not a nice thing for anyone.

[Paul in NZ]

Sucks for the bus driver, and the people who turned up on the scene and watched the car burn, not a nice thing for anyone.

sucked a lot more for the poor cunt in the rental car...

but I take your point - no good out comes here

[jim.cox]

sucked a lot more for the poor cunt in the rental car...

Victims Plural - there were two in the car :(

[Paul in NZ]

Victims Plural - there were two in the car :(

Yes - sorry... Terrible thing

[buggerit]

Maybe add it to 90 mile beach and Skippers canyon, no rental cars allowed, I'm sure the tour companies would step up

[Moi]

Maybe add it to 90 mile beach and Skippers canyon, no rental cars allowed, I'm sure the tour companies would step up

Small problem with that...

I decide to fly to Dunedin, pick up rental and do the loop of the south of the South Island including a trip to Milford Sound for a night or two there... why shouldn't I drive through to Milford Sound?

[Berries]

Maybe add it to 90 mile beach and Skippers canyon, no rental cars allowed, I'm sure the tour companies would step up
If rental car companies thought there was an issue on the Milford Road they would have banned their vehicles from it. Skippers is in a completely different category to SH94, and 90 mile beach is a beach.

People make mistakes, sometimes this happens when they are driving and sometimes this might be when they are on holiday. In New Zealand that means it might be on a popular tourist route.

I wonder how many New Zealanders have died on new Zealand roads since this crash and why we aren't talking about them?

EDIT - Oh look, another potential one this evening that won't make the national news unless they are from overseas - one-person-critical-after-crash (http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/90910493/one-person-critical-after-crash)

And another. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90911549/one-dead-after-car-and-logging-truck-crash-head-on-in-north-waikato)

[Akzle]

If rental car companies thought there was an issue on the Milford Road they would have banned their vehicles from it. Skippers is in a completely different category to SH94, and 90 mile beach is a beach.

People make mistakes, sometimes this happens when they are driving and sometimes this might be when they are on holiday. In New Zealand that means it might be on a popular tourist route.

I wonder how many New Zealanders have died on new Zealand roads since this crash and why we aren't talking about them?

they're not scary and require no policy changes to keep the status quo.

[JimO]

i was watching Motorway patroll tonight and along with the usual white trash there was a asian chap driving a SUV with a car load of rellys and he had bashed the front wheel and popped off several wheel nuts the wheel was wobbling all over the place, now im not a mechanic but i think that the front wheels are connected to the steering wheel, perhaps by a series of pulleys or some other such wizardry so cant understand how the driver didnt know something was wrong, i certainly dont want him coming towards me in 2 ton of steel when he hasnt the brains to work out something was wrong...the cops should have tasered him

[Akzle]

i was watching Motorway patroll tonight and along with the usual white trash there was a asian chap driving a SUV with a car load of rellys and he had bashed the front wheel and popped off several wheel nuts the wheel was wobbling all over the place, now im not a mechanic but i think that the front wheels are connected to the steering wheel, perhaps by a series of pulleys or some other such wizardry so cant understand how the driver didnt know something was wrong, i certainly dont want him coming towards me in 2 ton of steel when he hasnt the brains to work out something was wrong...the cops should have tasered him

saw similar many moons ago. azn, no speeku ra engrish. driving with NO FUCKEN TYRE, right rear, sparking like fuck (at night ish) probably ripping big fucken chunks out of the road.

afaik it ended up being a "get taxi home" no charges affair. cunt certainly didnt pay to fix the road.

[Paul in NZ]

Dear god - not nice reading

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90942904/german-tourists-killed-in-car-crash-remembered-as-polite-hardworking

[Akzle]

Dear god - not nice reading

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/90942904/german-tourists-killed-in-car-crash-remembered-as-polite-hardworking

but you fucken read it anyway, didn't ya cunt.

and then posted it here, just so everyone else would know. with a link, so other people could read what you read, and determine why your sad about it, and know that your such a deep caring soul.


exit this way for fuck sakes. (http://www.facebook.com)

[Akzle]

aaaaand FUCK stuff.

...Their rental car collided with a bus...


their rental car didn't do shit. it sat there, being a car. until some cunt got behind the go-pedals and turningenator-wheel and did stuff.

for fucks fucking sake.

darwin:1
krauts:-2

[Paul in NZ]

but you fucken read it anyway, didn't ya cunt.

and then posted it here, just so everyone else would know. with a link, so other people could read what you read, and determine why your sad about it, and know that your such a deep caring soul.


exit this way for fuck sakes. (http://www.facebook.com)

Nah - just drawing a line under a post I started.

The thing is - the bus company are saying the car was on the wrong side of the road yet the bus ended up on the wrong side of the road? A few people back a few posts pointed out how that could have happened. You assume (well OK I assumed) it was an older Chinese driver but not so - young fully fit men.

I've ridden that road a few times and its always been a thrill - recently its been so busy we have not bothered, now its even more dangerous I guess?

But thanks for your observations and its good to know the way out... You do make it sound attractive (or at least better than here)

[MD]

Our Government are lucky we are not seeing a pattern of foreign drivers involved in serious and fatal crashes. Otherwise we would expect them to do something about it. Well apart from this week's news stories;
1.Karen Rutherford TV Journo struck by Chinese driver. He drove into her and her daughter who were riding horses. Apart from the horses hugging the roadside there was no oncoming vehicles but dipshit doesn't know what the steering wheel is for.
2.Supposedly the two Germans in Te Anau crash were on the wrong side of the road
3.Yank Doctor visiting NZ admits careless driving causing multiple deaths near Nelson.
All in all a quiet week.

[Zedder]

Our Government are lucky we are not seeing a pattern of foreign drivers involved in serious and fatal crashes. Otherwise we would expect them to do something about it. Well apart from this week's news stories;
1.Karen Rutherford TV Journo struck by Chinese driver. He drove into her and her daughter who were riding horses. Apart from the horses hugging the roadside there was no oncoming vehicles but dipshit doesn't know what the steering wheel is for.
2.Supposedly the two Germans in Te Anau crash were on the wrong side of the road
3.Yank Doctor visiting NZ admits careless driving causing multiple deaths near Nelson.
All in all a quiet week.


The Blam Blam Blam song about no depression in New Zealand springs to mind.

[FJRider]

Hmmm - You would seriously have to ask how this sort of thing could have occurred... There have been so many incidents down there that you would need to think twice about visiting that part of the country during the peak season?? Is the pressure of tourism and time tables just too much for the infrastructure??



More people die on Auckland area roads than on THAT road ... Perhaps we should sort THAT issue out first ... :shutup:

Foreign driver deaths amount to 8% of the total fatal deaths on our roads. A lesser number than those Motorcyclists that die on our roads each year. Start a thread about THAT.

[husaberg]

More people die on Auckland area roads than on THAT road ... Perhaps we should sort THAT issue out first ... :shutup:

.

I would assume most of them would be Aucklanders though?

[FJRider]

I would assume most of them would be Aucklanders though?

I like to hope ... :whistle:


My only concern is ... the buggers are breeding ... :calm:

[FJRider]

Maybe add it to 90 mile beach and Skippers canyon, no rental cars allowed, I'm sure the tour companies would step up

Banning rental vehicles from the tourist highlight of the south island ... :killingme

[Berries]

Our Government are lucky we are not seeing a pattern of foreign drivers involved in serious and fatal crashes. Otherwise we would expect them to do something about it. Well apart from this week's news stories;
1.Karen Rutherford TV Journo struck by Chinese driver. He drove into her and her daughter who were riding horses. Apart from the horses hugging the roadside there was no oncoming vehicles but dipshit doesn't know what the steering wheel is for.
2.Supposedly the two Germans in Te Anau crash were on the wrong side of the road
3.Yank Doctor visiting NZ admits careless driving causing multiple deaths near Nelson.
All in all a quiet week.
Ok, so how many people have been killed and seriously injured in the last week and how many had absolutely nothing to do with those bloody foreigners you clearly have an issue with? The Karen Rutherford crash was in August last year and you have used the word supposedly re the Te Anau crash to imply something a bit too simplistic. I have no idea about the yank Doctor but if he was in court today I doubt the crash was this week either. Post #33 shows two crashes this week with dead and seriously injured and I am sure if I looked I could find at least another couple of them.

Yes, overseas drivers are an issue on our roads but they pale in to insignificance against locals.

What exactly do you think the Government should do? Testing wouldn't prove a bloody thing. The only solution to stop tourists being involved in crashes is to stop them driving. I am sure that would go down well with all the rednecks but you are kidding yourself if it is ever going to happen.

And then what are they going to do about those bastard motorbike riders?

[caspernz]

Ok, so how many people have been killed and seriously injured in the last week and how many had absolutely nothing to do with those bloody foreigners you clearly have an issue with? The Karen Rutherford crash was in August last year and you have used the word supposedly re the Te Anau crash to imply something a bit too simplistic. I have no idea about the yank Doctor but if he was in court today I doubt the crash was this week either. Post #33 shows two crashes this week with dead and seriously injured and I am sure if I looked I could find at least another couple of them.

Yes, overseas drivers are an issue on our roads but they pale in to insignificance against locals.

What exactly do you think the Government should do? Testing wouldn't prove a bloody thing. The only solution to stop tourists being involved in crashes is to stop them driving. I am sure that would go down well with all the rednecks but you are kidding yourself if it is ever going to happen.

And then what are they going to do about those bastard motorbike riders?

Good to see some balance on the tourist driver topic. In essence my point of view is about the same, yes I see tourists doing dumb stuff, but our local kiwi drivers are far worse regardless of how one looks at the stats.

To use a triple fatality intersection involving an American tourist in recent years as an example. Yes he made an error, cost him dearly. Now I go thru this particular junction regularly. And the locals regularly roll the dice with thru traffic, just to save a few seconds. We can joke about the commuter rush in Auckland, but in reality country road commuters can be just as risky. So it's pretty rich for kiwis to tar tourists with the bad driver brush, when in reality the average kiwi driver isn't any better. And yes I'm a foreigner, albeit having lived in NZ for 3 decades.

[Zedder]

What exactly do you think the Government should do? Testing wouldn't prove a bloody thing. The only solution to stop tourists being involved in crashes is to stop them driving. I am sure that would go down well with all the rednecks but you are kidding yourself if it is ever going to happen.


The Government is doing something:https://www.nzta.govt.nz/planning-and-investment/2015-18-national-land-transport-programme/case-studies/visiting-driver-safety-project/

[Coldrider]

Maybe the Chinese could rebuild the road, under the Belt and Road infrastructure investment it wants to place in NZ.
Would kill two birds with one stone.

[Virago]

...Yes, overseas drivers are an issue on our roads but they pale in to insignificance against locals.

What exactly do you think the Government should do? Testing wouldn't prove a bloody thing. The only solution to stop tourists being involved in crashes is to stop them driving. I am sure that would go down well with all the rednecks but you are kidding yourself if it is ever going to happen...

I have no issue with most foreign drivers. The key issue is whether they have a similar licencing process and standard to us, and whether we have a reciprocal agreement. Sure, a large number of them are used to driving on the other side of the road, but it's no different to us driving in their countries.

For me it comes back to the Chinese. They generally have poorer driving skills than the average Kiwi, and all too often they are seriously dangerous. The irony is, we don't have a reciprocal arrangement with China - we can't drive on their roads with a NZ licence. Yet they are let loose on our roads - why? It appears that in NZ money is more important than safety.

But you're right, testing is unlikely to happen. Indeed, the government would welcome more of them on our roads. Let's get the real numpties out of the tour buses and get them behind the wheel. Hell, if they have an accident we'll even provide ACC coverage for them.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/government-wants-chinese-tourists-off-tour-buses-and-travelling-themselves

[Berries]

For me it comes back to the Chinese. They generally have poorer driving skills than the average Kiwi, and all too often they are seriously dangerous. The irony is, we don't have a reciprocal arrangement with China - we can't drive on their roads with a NZ licence.
Entirely agree. Makes a mockery of the comments about the 1949 Geneva Convention on Road Traffic and reciprocal arrangements that always gets dragged out when the subject is brought up.

Giving them a half hour driving test around Auckland airport will do absolutely nothing when they hit the open road a few days later. I don't know what the solution is short of banning them or forcing them in to autonomous rental vehicles when they finally start to hit the road.

[danchop]

the nelson crash raises my thoughts for a long time on just why the fuck are u-turns legal?Tourist uturns =death,local u-turns = death,cops u-turn=death...a u-turn is generally done in haste with little regard to assessing safety first,because assessing takes time!

[swbarnett]

the nelson crash raises my thoughts for a long time on just why the fuck are u-turns legal?Tourist uturns =death,local u-turns = death,cops u-turn=death...a u-turn is generally done in haste with little regard to assessing safety first,because assessing takes time!
The simple answer is that the sort of U-turn that gets results in an accident around a blind corner is NOT legal.

[Moi]

Recently watched someone do a 5-point turn with a 4x4 in Dominion Rd... both flows of traffic held up while this person proved their incompetence...

On a more sensible note: when I learnt to drive [45+ years ago] I had to do a 3-point turn for the test but was told by both the driving instructor and the testing officer who was the local borough's chief traffic officer that should be the last time I should do it. Both were quite adamant about either going round the block or backing into a driveway and turn out because you have a much better view of the road...

[Akzle]

the nelson crash raises my thoughts for a long time on just why the fuck are u-turns legal?Tourist uturns =death,local u-turns = death,cops u-turn=death...a u-turn is generally done in haste with little regard to assessing safety first,because assessing takes time!

just fucken learn to 180 J turn on the handbrake you fucken woofter.

[swbarnett]

On a more sensible note: when I learnt to drive [45+ years ago] I had to do a 3-point turn for the test but was told by both the driving instructor and the testing officer who was the local borough's chief traffic officer that should be the last time I should do it. Both were quite adamant about either going round the block or backing into a driveway and turn out because you have a much better view of the road...
All very well when there's a driveway close by. Sometimes you don't have a choice. I'll caveat that by adding that I will always continue on until I find a straight piece of road with good visibility.

[Berries]

U-turns are like very high speeds. There's a time and a place where they are not going to cause sudden death.

Talking of which, two fatal crashes within 20km of each other down this way in the last ten days. No slanty eyed Kraut Wop drivers involved though so no widespread media stirring. Funny that.

[Akzle]

U-turns are like very high speeds. There's a time and a place where they are not going to cause sudden death.

Talking of which, two fatal crashes within 20km of each other down this way in the last ten days. No slanty eyed Kraut Wop drivers involved though so no widespread media stirring. Funny that.

you should start a facebook about it

[Berries]

Unfortunately I can't do FB so will have to stick with KB.