North Korea's future ... or lack thereof

[Oakie]

My take ... USA to make a pre-emptive strike and destroy NKs ability to wage war ... then China to invade NK on put them back on the path to righteousness. That second part might take a few years. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Trump and the Chinese Premier met last week.

Remember, you saw it here on KB first.

[Brian d marge]

My take ... USA to make a pre-emptive strike and destroy NKs ability to wage war ... then China to invade NK on put them back on the path to righteousness. That second part might take a few years. Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Trump and the Chinese Premier met last week.

Remember, you saw it here on KB first.
No , I've and others have been saying this shyt for years
See threads like when will the stock market crash
But on saying that , ur on the right track
The Nazis that have compromised Trump area calling for a limited nuclear war
The briniskys and the kissengers are trying to ring fence Russia and China
There are 2 trade routes over land and across the Atlantic
Also the Vatican is at loggerheads with the Orthodox Church, so some major players butting heads
But as far as you are saying , yes they are trying for war ,either in Syria or Korea
Either way ,I am fked
.These people are pure evil

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[seattle smitty]

We're hearing that while our naval forces entering the area can do serious damage with a first strike, they can't do enough, quick enough, to prevent very ugly reprisals.


I say, rather than kill lots of people, wait for the chance to kill the one guy. Unless China has a better idea.

I wish we had done this to Sadaam and his two boys, rather than cause the deaths of hundreds of thousands in Iraq in a badly-informed (and failed) attempt at nation-building there.

Some are afraid of assassination because it might lead to similar attempts here. Well, yeah . . . . so??

[YellowDog]

Trump would be better off doing a deal with the fat dumb kid, rather than wiping him out and putting China on the border with South Korea.

The Yanks have shown to be totally inept with any kind of strategy for the future.

I guess the more middle easts they create, the more weapons they sell :yes:

[nzspokes]

We're hearing that while our naval forces entering the area can do serious damage with a first strike, they can't do enough, quick enough, to prevent very ugly reprisals.


GMD systems. Bit of luck they can hit the thing before it leaves Korean soil. They would have nuked themselves.

[Oakie]

We're hearing that while our naval forces entering the area can do serious damage with a first strike, they can't do enough, quick enough, to prevent very ugly reprisals.

One of the Tom Clancy novels deals with this scenario in a believable manner. Of course novels and reality are two different things. Surprising how many situations Tom Clancy wrote about years before they happened.

[trufflebutter]

In 1985 Sting sang ''I hope the Russians love their children too'' bounce forward 32 years and the same could be said of the American's the North Koreans and the Chinese.

[Berries]

No , I've and others have been saying this shyt for years
Unfortunately most of your ramblings are too hard to understand so I don't think your message is getting across very well.




Surprising how many situations Tom Clancy wrote about years before they happened.
He is Kim Dong One!

[admenk]

I do have to say, watching the TV pictures of N Korean military parades and American fleet manoeuvres.......it's hard to see much difference :no:

[oldrider]

"All wars are bankers wars"?

North Korea is no threat to anyone yet apart from sabre rattling their biggest crime is living outside the Federal reserve banking network!

There are only three countries outside that system now - North Korea - Syria - Iran - At the start of the war on terror there were seven!

So is that just a fluke of nature or is there a pattern? :scratch: Check it out! :corn:

[Brian d marge]

Unfortunately most of your ramblings are too hard to understand so I don't think your message is getting across very well.




He is Kim Dong One!
Judging by the comments in my inbox , you might find the communication difficulty could be your end


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[Brian d marge]

"All wars are bankers wars"?

North Korea is no threat to anyone yet apart from sabre rattling their biggest crime is living outside the Federal reserve banking network!

There are only three countries outside that system now - North Korea - Syria - Iran - At the start of the war on terror there were seven!

So is that just a fluke of nature or is there a pattern? :scratch: Check it out! :corn:
And three states
The Vatican, city of London and the district of columbia
Hahaha
And the last time north Korea took on the world was in 1966
https://youtu.be/rG-ivV-ps50



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[pritch]

The record of the Yanks in recent years has not been great. Libya, Irag, Afghanistan, all fuck ups. And that was when they had professionals on the job.
Now there's a bunch of amateur idealogues led by an ignoramus who conducts what passes for his version of diplomacy on Twitter.

My concern was that while Trump huffs and puffs, North Korea might take him seriously and preemptively invade the South. We don't want a replay of that thanks.

Meantime the Spratleys continue to fester and the situation in Syria isn't getting any better. But it's OK Trump is playing golf. I hope he wins or he'll want to nuke someone.

[Zedder]

One of the Tom Clancy novels deals with this scenario in a believable manner. Of course novels and reality are two different things. Surprising how many situations Tom Clancy wrote about years before they happened.


I've always enjoyed reading his books.

[mashman]

"All wars are bankers wars"?

North Korea is no threat to anyone yet apart from sabre rattling their biggest crime is living outside the Federal reserve banking network!

There are only three countries outside that system now - North Korea - Syria - Iran - At the start of the war on terror there were seven!

So is that just a fluke of nature or is there a pattern? :scratch: Check it out! :corn:

"What in god's name are you talking about. The only way I would believe that there were long standing plans to bring down Syria, is if I heard it directly out of the mouth of like a former 4 star general or former presidential candidate or former nato supreme allied commander referencing classified information that he got from the pentagon."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAuEo9D-f1I

[Swoop]

12 April, 2017: China is increasingly angry at Koreans in general for not showing sufficient respect. The biggest (and growing) problem is North Korea. China wants a stable communist dictatorship in North Korea, not a failed government that would send several million starving refugees fleeing across the border. China also does not want North Korea to collapse and get absorbed by South Korea. That would put a democracy on China's border and give many Chinese a view of how things might be much better with a different political system in China. Koreans are seen as "younger brothers" to China, and it's embarrassing if the younger brother outdoes his older sibling. South Korean democracy is played down in China, but that would be difficult if a democratic, united, Korea were right on the border.

The Chinese have made it more obvious to the North Korean leadership that China will support pro-China elements in the North Korean government if the current North Korean leadership fails to turn things around. China has recently sent 150,000 additional troops to the North Korean border to emphasize Chinese concern. While many of these troops are there for training (which the Chinese Army is doing a lot more of), other are to reinforce border security and most of those additional troops are showing up at the border so North Koreans can see them and draw their own conclusions. The latest escalation is accompanied by blunt suggestions in Chinese state controlled media that perhaps some Chinese military action inside North Korea might be more persuasive.

At the moment the Chinese are concentrating on persuading North Korea to drop its nuclear weapons program, which is seen as aimed at China as well as South Korea, Japan and the United States. The Chinese don't mind if the North Koreans extract a high price from South Korea, Japan and America for this, as long as the nukes are gone, and stay gone. Again, failure to comply may lead to more energetic action against Kim dynasty rule.

These threats resonate with Koreans. For thousands of years China has been the “big brother” in East Asia and all neighbouring states are “little brothers” who must behave accordingly and not do anything to make big brother look bad. While North Korea likes to brag that it became blood brothers with China during the Korean War (1950-53) the truth of the matter is that the North Koreans have always resented the overbearing Chinese. This has been going on for over a thousand years and now the North Koreans have found ways to manipulate humiliate and frustrate their unpopular big brother. You really have to be Korean to appreciate this and the Chinese would really like to find some way out of this mess. Threatening North Korea with attack is now on the table because economic punishment does not seem to have worked.

For China the main threat from North Korea is also economic. China wants to avoid chaos in North Korea because that would be bad for the Chinese economy and increase the threat of conflict with even more dangerous opponents like Japan, South Korea and the United States. The most extreme (but acceptable) measures China could try include literally taking control of North Korea, something which China has done in the distant past. Staging a coup in North

Korea has always been a possibility but the paranoid (for good reason in this case) North Korean leadership has made it difficult for China to recruit enough North Korean officials to make this feasible. That said, the potential is still there and China could still go this route. Many North Koreans believe that the Chinese will just move in and take over if it appears that the North Korean government is about to fall apart or otherwise becoming too dangerous to China. The Chinese takeover plan apparently includes installing pro-Chinese North Koreans as head of a new "North Korean" government, and instituting the kind of economic reforms they have been urging the North Korean to undertake for over a decade. Fear of this sort of thing is apparently a major reason why Kim Jong Un had his older brother assassinated in February. The brother had frequently let it be known that he had no interest in running North Korea. China just wants a less self-destructive ruler in North Korea but there doesn’t appear to be any viable candidates.

The Chinese do not want North Korea to merge with South Korea either. All the neighbours (especially China and South Korea) want North Korea to stay independent, and harmless. Thus China is willing to unofficially annex North Korea, knowing that the South Koreans would go along with this as long as the fiction of North Korean independence was maintained. South Korea won't admit this, but most South Koreans know that absorbing North Korea would put a big dent in South Korean living standards. That is more unpopular than any other outcome. While all Koreans would like a united Korea, far fewer are willing to pay the price.


The South

South Korea has also been a troublesome younger brother. Since early 2017 China has increased its economic pressure on South Korea to cancel deployment of THAAD anti-missile missiles. Throughout 2016 the economic pressure was not working out so but that is changing as China ordered (“suggested”) in early March that Chinese tourists avoid South Korea. That had an immediate impact because most Chinese (who account for about half the tourist traffic in South Korea) obeyed and stayed away.

Normally a quarter of South Korean exports go to China and as the losses pile up more South Koreans feel the impact personally. China has also suggested to its political allies in South Korea (leftist parties that have been losing influence as North Korea became more of a problem) to back candidates for the special presidential election (to replace the conservative president recently impeached for corruption) who will be more attentive to Chinese needs. That will be a hard sell and is costing China a lot of cash and goodwill internally (a lot of Chinese are fans of South Korean culture and products) and externally (all the other neighbours note the bullying and see themselves as a potential victim).

The economic pressure began in 2016 when China banned all legal (licensed) use of South Korean movies, TV shows and popular music inside China. Months later that was expanded to include popular consumer items like air purifiers and heated toilet seats. The bans began with the aspects of South Korean culture were most popular in China and very lucrative for the South Korean firms that produce them. It’s also a point of pride for South Koreans in general that Chinese admire, and pay for, a very public aspect of Korean culture. The Chinese intimidation campaign went into high gear after China suspended discussions on joint defence matters in early November 2016 because South Korea made it clear it would not, under any circumstances, abandon plans to install American THAAD anti-missile systems.

Because of continued North Korean nuclear and ballistic missile development South Korea sped up deployment and now plans to have THAAD operational in 2017, several years earlier than originally planned. China, Russia and North Korea have long opposed THAAD. China will not come right out and say it but they object mainly because THAAD would also make South Korea less vulnerable to intimidation by Chinese ballistic missiles. South Korean voters understand that so all the threats are having less impact than China expected but China keeps adding to the economic pain and South Koreans are unhappy with the economic cost, as well as a reminder that China is the historical threat to Korean independence.

China wants Korea to behave more like the other neighbours. Cambodia, Burma, Thailand and the Philippines take the Chinese money and behave. Why can’t the Koreans? Chinese expect the Japanese (who are believed to be part Korean) to be stubborn and troublesome but the Koreans should know better.

11 April, 2017: A Chinese daily newspaper (Global Times) known for being a state-controlled media outlet used to test new ideas published an item today pointing out that if North Korea does not abandon its nuclear weapons program (which is seen as a threat to China) then China will bomb the nuclear facilities and North Korea will have to live with that or suffer further military and economic consequences they cannot respond to (by attacking China). This article also warned the United States not to contemplate doing this, as North Korea was for neighbour China to deal with, not some distant superpower. Within hours the article was removed from the Global Times website, but many people had seen it and it still existed in Google cache. In other words, China was telling North Korea that stronger measures from China were now a possibility. At the same time the U.S. was making it clear that the kind of attack on Syria the U.S. recently carried out could be tried on North Korea. China agrees that it might come to that but they insist that the bombs or missiles be Chinese.

10 April, 2017: The government is offering cash rewards of up to $72,000 to Chinese who supply useful information about foreign spies operating in the Chinese capital. This sort of thing is meant to intimidate foreign visitors and by giving out some big rewards from time it will cheer people up. Chinese cities, especially the capital, have some of the most unhealthy air in the world.

09 April, 2017: South Korea and the United States made official announcements that the U.S. was not considering an attack on Kim Jong Un in an effort to replaced his government. Kim Jong Un is alarmed that on April 6th the U.S. bombed a Syrian airbase because Syria used nerve gas against its own people. Today an American naval task force (containing a large aircraft carrier and three destroyers armed with cruise missiles) was ordered to move immediately from Singapore to the Korean coast.
What’s a paranoid dictator to think? The U.S. has also recently said that from now on it is ignoring all the “media theatre” North Korea loves to broadcast and concentrating on concrete measures to remove nuclear weapons and long range missiles from North Korea. Kim Jong Un keeps issuing statements that war is imminent. But he and his predecessors have been doing that for a long time and there has been no war. These declarations no longer have any meaning and the Americans are calling out Kim Jong Un on that point. Everyone knows that if Kim Jong Un ordered a military attack on South Korea, Japan and any U.S. forces they can reach it would be the end of Kim rule in North Korea and probably the end of Kim Jong Un as well.

07 April, 2017: China ordered companies that buy North Korean coal to refuse shipments from now on. This is a response to the North Korean missile tests two days ago. In February China ordered a halt to all coal imports from North Korea but corruption got around this. This was essential for North Korea because coal exports to China account for at more than half the foreign currency North Korea earns each year from China (which accounts for 90 percent of all North Korean legal foreign trade). This is a major problem for North Korea because there is no one else they can sell their coal to while China will have no problem finding other suppliers (like the United States). Today North

Korean ships carrying coal were turned away from the Chinese ports where the still deliver the coal illegally. How long this enforcement of the sanctions will last is unknown but North Korea understands that the corruption in China means anything is possible if you can pay. And the cost of getting sanctioned coal into China just went way up.

Meanwhile Japan extended its 2006 economic sanctions against North Korea for two more years. Until 2006 one of the best sources of cash for North Korea was the 600,000 ethnic Koreans living in Japan. The Japanese Koreans long viewed North Korea as some kind of fictional paradise, especially because of North Koreas hostility to Japan. While the Koreans in Japan prospered (at least compared to Koreans in North Korea), they also continued to suffer discrimination from Japanese. But as word of the great North Korean famine of the 1990s leaked out, many Koreans in Japan lost faith in their dreams. North Korea was no paradise, no promised land. Some moved to South Korea, others got more comfortable with Japanese culture, and everyone was less willing to contribute cash to the cause up north. But even in 2006 there were still many Japanese Koreans willing to do business with North Korea but the sanctions put a large dent in that.

06 April, 2017: In the United States the Chinese leader and the new American president met for the first time. They were polite to each other but while the two leaders were having dinner the United States launched a cruise missile attack on Syria. The Chinese leader was personally (and quietly) informed of this by his host before the meal ended. As soon as the Chinese leader was back in China the Chinese media became more critical of these American moves and basically told the Americans that if North Korea has to be bombed, we will do it.

South Korea revealed that it had recently conducted a successful test of a locally made solid fuel ballistic missile with a range of 800 kilometres. This enables South Korea to hit targets anywhere in North Korea with weapons (ballistic missiles) that North Korea is not equipped to stop. This comes 18 months after the announcement that a ballistic missile with a range of 500 kilometres was successfully tested. That test ended decades of restrictions on South Korean ballistic missile development.
In 2012 the United States halted its efforts to restrict South Korean missile development. The South Koreans tried for over a decade to develop warmer relations with North Korea and all efforts failed. The 2010 North Korea attacks (using artillery and a torpedo than sank a warship) on South Korea changed a lot of attitudes in South Korea, and the United States. North Korea is still a big problem but since 2010 South Korea has been free to try whatever it thinks will work.

05 April, 2017: For the second time since February North Korea conducted a test of its “Polaris 2” (or KN-15) ballistic missile, which was successfully fired from canister on a tracked vehicle acting as a TEL (Transporter Erector Launcher). This launch was carried out while the Chinese president was in the United States to meet his American counterpart. That makes this particular launch appear as North Korea trying to embarrass China. Not a good idea, nor was the implications of the missiles tested. A mobile TEL carrying a ballistic missile that can reach all of South Korea and parts of Japan (and China), especially one armed with a chemical or nuclear warhead, makes North Korea a much more dangerous threat.

28 March, 2017: Commercial photo satellites spotted Chinese J-11 fighters at the new airbase built on Woody Island in the Paracels chain. China claims airstrips like this are for supporting civilian activities.

08 March, 2017: China openly asked North Korea to stop its nuclear and ballistic missile tests and implied that if North Korea complied China would persuade the United States and South Korea to halt their military preparations to deal with a North Korean attack. North Korea was apparently not impressed.


* THAAD: Theatre High Altitude Air Defence.
A missile system that should intercept missiles (ballistic and others) in the higher atmosphere.

[Voltaire]

I wonder if the Chinese are nearing a 1989 Berlin Wall moment?
Maybe a new series of M*A*S*H :msn-wink:

[Brian d marge]

Banning heated toilet seats , is just not cricket



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[Oakie]

12 April, 2017: China is increasingly angry at Koreans ...etc .

Interesting piece. I'd never thought of North Korea as a buffer between communist China and capitalist South Korea but it does make sense.

[jonbuoy]

I do have to say, watching the TV pictures of N Korean military parades and American fleet manoeuvres.......it's hard to see much difference :no:

Only us white folks are allowed to have nukes. It might be lost in translation but he only stated he would retaliate if attacked first. It's a lot of sabre rattling and chest puffing. And then probably some negotiations and money to be transferred and it will all settle down again. Media got to keep those ratings up on slow news days.

[Brian d marge]

I've also been watching the North Korean military parades

.Whoooaaar , domineering women in thigh high boots , ...

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[seattle smitty]

[QUOTE=oldrider)?

North Korea is no threat to anyone yet apart from sabre rattling :[/QUOTE]


Well, in the late 1930s all the professional diplomats felt that Hitler and the Japanese could be pressured, reasoned with, accommodated, appeased, and bought off. All of these senior wise men were sure that in the end the bad boys they had to deal with would see the economic wisdom of pushing for the best deal they could get, short of going to war.

They were wrong then. The corresponding crowd of diplomats and area experts today are saying that Kim Jong Un is playing a calculated bluff to cut a better deal.

I think they're wrong now. I think the little fat boy is not capable of making the fully rational calculations we want from him. Others around him, who would be in line to replace him, are likely to be more clear-headed. I still say we need to terminate him, and quickly. This is a bad situation, 1938 all over again.

[SVboy]

I read today that the issue with a preemptive strike on North Korea is the huge amount of firepower they have ready to go, pointed at Seoul, a city of 10 million. A strike on North Korea and it is all on.

[Autech]

One of the Tom Clancy novels deals with this scenario in a believable manner. Of course novels and reality are two different things. Surprising how many situations Tom Clancy wrote about years before they happened.


I've always enjoyed reading his books.

+1 to the above. One of my fav of all time, scary how a lot of the stuff he wrote came to be, lets hope no greeny scientist ever get the idea that we need to die like it Rainbow 6 though...


I read today that the issue with a preemptive strike on North Korea is the huge amount of firepower they have ready to go, pointed at Seoul, a city of 10 million. A strike on North Korea and it is all on.

My understanding of the Cold war strategy (this may be well wrong) was that nukes were aimed at nukes in the hope you could get his nukes before he got you. So every time the other guy built a nuke you had to find it, build another nuke and aim it at it. This went on for years and years until there were so many Nukes the whole world could be blown up millions of times. If the Yanks or the Chinese want to disarm the North Koreans they'll need lots of intel on where they are located and more than just a carrier battle group to blow up any capability he has of doing damage to the south. Any nukes or chem weapons he may or may not have will need to be destroyed up before he can send them south.

It'll be a dice roll...

[EJK]

I read today that the issue with a preemptive strike on North Korea is the huge amount of firepower they have ready to go, pointed at Seoul, a city of 10 million. A strike on North Korea and it is all on.

Praying it never comes to that. I have all my relatives and friends living in Seoul.

[Swoop]

The North Korean military is rooted.

There hasn't been enough fuel to conduct training exercises for years. The "airforce" is lucky to fly anything resembling a training sortie once per year/per pilot, so don't expect anything from them.
Navy? Well, the do make nice targets...
Army. Artillery can be an issue, as can missile launches (hence Patriot / THAAD / Irn Dome systems to defend the South) along with pre-positioned espionage and commando teams.

The average army unit spends most of the time helping with farmers raising and harvesting crops, and stealing what they can get away with to survive. The same applies to the higher echelons of the ministerial people.
If the Nth K "Minister of Silly Walks" decides to visit China and not return, he knows that ALL of his family, relations and cousins, will be off to the forced labour camps. Deciding wisely is a matter of life and death.
However those who have managed to leave, send back funds to assist their families and relatives.

The rogue element is the missiles and the Bucket's of instant sunshine. The nukes have not been perfected and are unreliable (mainly) with the missiles being short ranged.
Targets could include Japan, Malasia and ... China. This worries Xi.

The fat kid is unstable but sabre rattling to attempt to bribe donations of aid from any nation, which goes straight into the pockets of the politicians - hence aid has dried up unless the aid agency delivers it to the people. With previous attempts of doing this and the quantity of bribes needed to get shipments through, the aid has dried up. No surprises there (just the same in Africa).

It does look like more of a play on America's part, to finally get the Chinese to sort out Fatty-boy. Either way the winner loses, by inheriting a poverty stricken poison-chalice (all sides recognise this).

[Zedder]

+1 to the above. One of my fav of all time, scary how a lot of the stuff he wrote came to be, lets hope no greeny scientist ever get the idea that we need to die like it Rainbow 6 though...


Yep, he's good alright. That Rainbow 6 book was certainly a bit different in terms of bad guys.

[Brian d marge]

The North Korean military is rooted.

There hasn't been enough fuel to conduct training exercises for years. The "airforce" is lucky to fly anything resembling a training sortie once per year/per pilot, so don't expect anything from them.
Navy? Well, the do make nice targets...
Army. Artillery can be an issue, as can missile launches (hence Patriot / THAAD / Irn Dome systems to defend the South) along with pre-positioned espionage and commando teams.

The average army unit spends most of the time helping with farmers raising and harvesting crops, and stealing what they can get away with to survive. The same applies to the higher echelons of the ministerial people.
If the Nth K "Minister of Silly Walks" decides to visit China and not return, he knows that ALL of his family, relations and cousins, will be off to the forced labour camps. Deciding wisely is a matter of life and death.
However those who have managed to leave, send back funds to assist their families and relatives.

The rogue element is the missiles and the Bucket's of instant sunshine. The nukes have not been perfected and are unreliable (mainly) with the missiles being short ranged.
Targets could include Japan, Malasia and ... China. This worries Xi.

The fat kid is unstable but sabre rattling to attempt to bribe donations of aid from any nation, which goes straight into the pockets of the politicians - hence aid has dried up unless the aid agency delivers it to the people. With previous attempts of doing this and the quantity of bribes needed to get shipments through, the aid has dried up. No surprises there (just the same in Africa).

It does look like more of a play on America's part, to finally get the Chinese to sort out Fatty-boy. Either way the winner loses, by inheriting a poverty stricken poison-chalice (all sides recognise this).
Yes but the have fkin deep holes they can hide in

Need more than ur average bunker buster

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[Brian d marge]

Who ever nukes who first the result will be a "Nuclear Winter" which is a term I heard during the nuclear war fear between Russia and the US back in the late 60's early 70's. The NZ media needs to do stories on such a scenario rather than always writing stories in the newspapers about the Alpine Fault going, as my bet is we will see a Nuclear Winter before then.
Already prepared
Been going to the local yoga classes
I can kiss my own arse good bye quicker than you can post on KB

Also if I need confirmation of my own dynamic presence who better to kiss my are but myself

PS there is a good book out there on nuclear war I have a PDF copy if anyone wants

Assume a direct hit on tokyo, I'm just inside this is a. " really bad hair day" of 30 km , and that assume a Russian missile not the 20 year old radar guided ,couldnt hit Syria if they tried America tomahawk skyrockets




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[Oakie]

PS there is a good book out there on nuclear war I have a PDF copy if anyone wants

Best I've read was 'On the Beach' by Neville Shute. Read it in my early teens. Way better than the movie.

[Gremlin]

My understanding of the Cold war strategy (this may be well wrong) was that nukes were aimed at nukes in the hope you could get his nukes before he got you. So every time the other guy built a nuke you had to find it, build another nuke and aim it at it. This went on for years and years until there were so many Nukes the whole world could be blown up millions of times. If the Yanks or the Chinese want to disarm the North Koreans they'll need lots of intel on where they are located and more than just a carrier battle group to blow up any capability he has of doing damage to the south. Any nukes or chem weapons he may or may not have will need to be destroyed up before he can send them south.
Not quite. It was effectively the threat of mutual destruction. You launch your nukes at me, yeah, sure, I'm toast, but I have a short time frame before they reach me. In that time, I'll be sending all of mine your way, so you're also toast.

[Autech]

Who ever nukes who first the result will be a "Nuclear Winter" which is a term I heard during the nuclear war fear between Russia and the US back in the late 60's early 70's. The NZ media needs to do stories on such a scenario rather than always writing stories in the newspapers about the Alpine Fault going, as my bet is we will see a Nuclear Winter before then.

Be interesting to know how many nukes would cause that kind of fall out. Once again I'm going off my own memory but isn't nuclear winter due to radio active dust going up into the stratosphere and spreading misery all around the world?


Not quite. It was effectively the threat of mutual destruction. You launch your nukes at me, yeah, sure, I'm toast, but I have a short time frame before they reach me. In that time, I'll be sending all of mine your way, so you're also toast.

Mutually assured destruction rings a bell, but I do believe that some of the more accurate nukes were aimed at other nukes in the hope that they could minimise their retaliation ability.

[seattle smitty]

A preemptive strike by us or others is very likely to get a military response from the north, however feeble (per Scoop's info), and will certainly get the response if the strike somehow leaves little fat boy alive to direct things. But if China has agents in place, who have "turned" locals who could stick a needle in fat boy, cooler heads might take over.

Nevil Schute was a dandy writer, but also an aero engineer, and he wrote a fine book on that work which any of you gear-heads would enjoy: "Slide Rule."

[pritch]

Looking on the bright side, at least the nuclear winter should stop the global warming. :whistle:

I note today, with relief this time, that Trump has been bullshitting again. The naval "armada" that he said was heading for Korea was in fact heading for the Indian Ocean for naval exercises with Australia. That's about 3,500 miles from North Korea.

It's understood that naval authorities are normally coy about the location of their ships, (NZ could learn from that) but Trump has taken it to a new level.

[Brian d marge]

Looking on the bright side, at least the nuclear winter should stop the global warming. :whistle:

I note today, with relief this time, that Trump has been bullshitting again. The naval "armada" that he said was heading for Korea was in fact heading for the Indian Ocean for naval exercises with Australia. That's about 3,500 miles from North Korea.

It's understood that naval authorities are normally coy about the location of their ships, (NZ could learn from that) but Trump has taken it to a new level.

Is that the john c stennis carrier group , last time I checked was about 300km out of japan. Is that the one heading for Australia ? any why are they holding training with australia ,

[mashman]

Is that the john c stennis carrier group , last time I checked was about 300km out of japan. Is that the one heading for Australia ? any why are they holding training with australia ,

So they can invade NZ :laugh:

[Autech]

So they can invade NZ :laugh:

Phuckin bring it!

[Swoop]

Is that the john c stennis carrier group. Is that the one heading for Australia ? any why are they holding training with australia ,

Nah. The Carl Vinson.

Training with Aus is simply because there is a US Marine detachment based there full time.


I wonder if the Fat Kid has worked himself into a fury over nothing yet?

[Brian d marge]

Nah. The Carl Vinson.

Training with Aus is simply because there is a US Marine detachment based there full time.


I wonder if the Fat Kid has worked himself into a fury over nothing yet?
Ok because as far as I know the John s , is sitting on me doorstep

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[pritch]

Nah. The Carl Vinson.

Training with Aus is simply because there is a US Marine detachment based there full time.





I don't know if this carrier group has much to do with the Marines. Just fairly recently there was a big exercise involving naval elements, the Marines, and at least one Australian battalion.

It may be that this current effort is more of a specifically blue water thing? There's a lot of that in the Indian Ocean.

[Brian d marge]

I don't know if this carrier group has much to do with the Marines. Just fairly recently there was a big exercise involving naval elements, the Marines, and at least one Australian battalion.

It may be that this current effort is more of a specifically blue water thing? There's a lot of that in the Indian Ocean.
Yes I've been staring at mine all day

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[pritch]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-north-korea-aircraft-carrier-sailing-opposite-direction-warning-a7689961.html

[oldrider]

"All wars are bankers wars"?

North Korea is no threat to anyone yet apart from sabre rattling their biggest crime is living outside the Federal reserve banking network!

There are only three countries outside that system now - North Korea - Syria - Iran - At the start of the war on terror there were seven!

So is that just a fluke of nature or is there a pattern? :scratch: Check it out! :corn:


"What in god's name are you talking about. The only way I would believe that there were long standing plans to bring down Syria, is if I heard it directly out of the mouth of like a former 4 star general or former presidential candidate or former nato supreme allied commander referencing classified information that he got from the pentagon."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAuEo9D-f1I

"All wars are bankers wars" like this video says - how does it relate to the North Korea - Syria - Iran situation currently on the world (war) scenario? - You be the judge!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/r3FOMiQtZXo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Brian d marge]

We also forget North Korea opium game ? The Americans don't like competition ya know

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[Swoop]

We also forget North Korea opium game ?

It's the quantity of Meth that they are producing which is more of a problem.
Initially intended for export, to earn foreign revenue, it has now taken off in NK instead.

[Zedder]

It's the quantity of Meth that they are producing which is more of a problem.
Initially intended for export, to earn foreign revenue, it has now taken off in NK instead.


Yep, I read that. Apparently they've been feeding the crap to construction workers, among others, to make them work harder/faster.

[husaberg]

China has recently sent 150,000 additional troops to the North Korean border to emphasize Chinese concern.
For China the main threat from North Korea is also economic. China wants to avoid chaos in North Korea because that would be bad for the Chinese economy and increase the threat of conflict with even more dangerous opponents like Japan, South Korea and the United States. The most extreme (but acceptable) measures China could try include literally taking control of North Korea, something which China has done in the distant past. Staging a coup in North

Korea has always been a possibility but the paranoid (for good reason in this case) North Korean leadership has made it difficult for China to recruit enough North Korean officials to make this feasible. That said, the potential is still there and China could still go this route. Many North Koreans believe that the Chinese will just move in and take over if it appears that the North Korean government is about to fall apart or otherwise becoming too dangerous to China. The Chinese takeover plan apparently includes installing pro-Chinese North Koreans as head of a new "North Korean" government, and instituting the kind of economic reforms they have been urging the North Korean to undertake for over a decade. Fear of this sort of thing is apparently a major reason why Kim Jong Un had his older brother assassinated in February. The brother had frequently let it be known that he had no interest in running North Korea. China just wants a less self-destructive ruler in North Korea but there doesn’t appear to be any viable candidates.

The Chinese do not want North Korea to merge with South Korea either. All the neighbours (especially China and South Korea) want North Korea to stay independent, and harmless. Thus China is willing to unofficially annex North Korea, knowing that the South Koreans would go along with this as long as the fiction of North Korean independence was maintained. South Korea won't admit this, but most South Koreans know that absorbing North Korea would put a big dent in South Korean living standards. That is more unpopular than any other outcome. While all Koreans would like a united Korea, far fewer are willing to pay the price.




Russia is also massing troops on the border of North Korea
vladivostok one of their largest bases is only 160 kms from the border.
It might just be a lolly scamble.

[Brian d marge]

It's not just North Korea they ALL are a bunch of dirty crooked baskets
Now ,might has right. These people are NOT ethical or even play in the same town let alone the same playing ground as u and I
And I should know , I've been sitting here in this sand pit on me Todd for ages now
So if might has right or has something u can use. Look at the countries that are quiet.
Germany
Russia
And not just countries , what about people , organisations who gains what?
I think America is just the puppet off some very nasty people and I think those people have some kind of weapon that does the business
Drugs do play a major role in this
( Where does one get the opiums for medical use ? Synthetic? Or from abdul the afgani? )
A lot more reading is required , A lot more
But one thing for sure , this evvil has been with us since the dawn of time , this ain't nothing new
The pelepelonian ( Sparta Greece)wars were over debt based money , Sparta wanting to remain on surplus based if I remember correctly). It wasn't nukes but it bankrupted Greece
All in a day's work for the boys
Can't remember the name of the painting but those ships Tyriens are they called , ain't cheaphttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/147e8b5f6651ef49b37f9631466ede37.jpg

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[Oakie]

Can't remember the name of the painting but those ships Tyriens are they called , ain't cheap Triremes you mean?

[Brian d marge]

Triremes you mean?
Thank u ... Between my brain and the keyboard a lot of shyt happens and the signals get distorted
Haha thanks



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[husaberg]

Thank u ... Between my brain and the keyboard a lot of shyt happens and the signals get distorted
Haha thanks



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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikGyZh0VbPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISmgOrhELXs

[Brian d marge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikGyZh0VbPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISmgOrhELXs

must spread me legs , so in the meantime have some of percys pure green ....


330262

[mashman]

All wars are bankers wars

They're not bankers. They're just being a bit silly.

[Oakie]

They're not bankers. They're just being a bit silly.

"He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy".

[oldrider]

The United States "protects" (?) the world from people with WMD - unfortunately there is feck all protection from them! :shit:

WMD? https://mises.org/blog/efficiency-pentagon-big-bomb-killed-militants-4722-each :confused: . :corn:

[Murray]

The United States "protects" (?) the world from people with WMD - unfortunately there is feck all protection from them! :shit:

WMD? https://mises.org/blog/efficiency-pentagon-big-bomb-killed-militants-4722-each :confused: . :corn:

So you support North Korea???

http://zeenews.india.com/world/north-korea-warns-australia-of-nuclear-strike-if-it-toes-us-line-1998551.html

You used to be a balanced poster.

Are you now old old old senile oldrider?

[oldrider]

So you support North Korea???

http://zeenews.india.com/world/north-korea-warns-australia-of-nuclear-strike-if-it-toes-us-line-1998551.html

He is obviously a nut job but so far he hasn't actually ventured outside of his own fortress and harmed anybody - has he? - Compare his record with that of the USA!

You used to be a balanced poster. (Well I am sick to death of all the bullshit war and destruction waged around the world by the USA!)

Are you now old old old senile oldrider?

:scratch: Well probably yes to the last question but how does that equate to me supporting North Korea?

The hypocrisy of the US is never ending - they have all the weapons of mass destruction imaginable and they are the most likely to indiscriminately use them!

[oldrider]

More (interesting?) opinion on North Korea - USA situation:- http://patriotrising.com/2017/04/22/history-lesson-awaits-trump-attacks-north-korea-analysts/ :shifty: May not be as easy as Trump thinks! :no:

[Voltaire]

I'm sure Donald is studying up on North Korea and the previous war with them as we speak.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/84/43/8e/84438eaea71a7bda64d18ab923ecbdc1.jpg

[caseye]

I'm sure Donald is studying up on North Korea and the previous war with them as we speak.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/84/43/8e/84438eaea71a7bda64d18ab923ecbdc1.jpg

Bet he's not. Hell I had to ask the wife which Colonel came first.
Even as I looked at the picture of Season Ones cast.
Poor old Henry didn't even get out of the area before his chopper was shot down and he was killed.
Barstard bloody Nth Korean Gooks, I still hate them!

[husaberg]

Bet he's not. Hell I had to ask the wife which Colonel came first.
Even as I looked at the picture of Season Ones cast.
Poor old Henry didn't even get out of the area before his chopper was shot down and he was killed.
Barstard bloody Nth Korean Gooks, I still hate them!

Shot down over the sea of japan. On a transport plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g450eyrN7Pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZILGWmsOvY

[Brian d marge]

Shot down over the sea of japan. On a transport plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g450eyrN7Pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZILGWmsOvY
Stop it , that's another chapter at the rate ur going

At my age this could prove fatal

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[Swoop]

23 April, 2017: In early April South Korea conducted a successful test of a locally made ballistic missile with a range of 800 kilometres. The new missile can carry a half ton warhead and has no official name yet. This enables South Korea to hit targets anywhere in North Korea with weapons (ballistic missiles) that North Korea is not equipped to stop.

A similar test in 2015 involved ballistic missiles with a range of 500 kilometres what came to be known as the Hyunmoo 2C. That test ended decades of restrictions (at the behest of the United States) on South Korean ballistic missile development. South Korea has never released much information on how many of its ballistic or cruise missiles it has but has at times indicated that they are aimed at North Korean targets. These South Korea missiles can be launched from anywhere in South Korea and hit any area in North Korea. Apparently North Korean leader Kim Jong Un and his various underground headquarters are prime targets. Unlike North Korea, which has chemical weapons and, eventually, nuclear warheads, South Korea is restricted to conventional explosives. But even with these, missiles can do considerable damage to underground facilities and major above ground facilities.

Until 2012 South Korea and the United States had an agreement that limited South Korean made ballistic missiles to 300 kilometres range. In return the United States pledged prompt and substantial military support in the event of an attack by North Korea. In 2012 that treaty was modified because of growing aggression by North Korea and a rapidly growing North Korean arsenal of ballistic missiles. The 2012 amendments allow for South Korean missiles with a max range of 800 kilometres. The original restrictions were a gesture to North Korea in an effort to halt a ballistic missile arms race. By 2012 it was clear that the north wanted nothing to do with any restrictions. Meanwhile South Korea already had over two decades experience developing satellite launchers and ballistic missiles. South Korea is better equipped (with tech and manufacturing capability) than North Korea to develop and build ballistic missiles and satellite launchers. So the 2012 amendments to the ballistic missile agreement were expected to show quick results and that is what happened.

Back in 2012 the South Korean military also called for over $2 billion to be spent on missiles during the next five years and this plan was largely approved. This was part of an effort to develop the capability to quickly weaken the North Korean artillery and missile forces in any future war. The South Korean plan included the purchase of over a thousand new ballistic and cruise missiles. These are aimed at specific North Korean missile launchers and artillery positions. In the event of a war, the South Korean missiles can be quickly launched and most North Korean missile and artillery weapons destroyed. That would mean less destruction in South Korean territory. The North Korean plan had always been to start any future war with an enormous bombardment of South Korea using shells, rockets, and missiles. Most would be aimed at the South Korean capital, and largest city, Seoul.

Nearly all the $2 billion was spent on missiles made in South Korea. At the same time the government also revealed the existence of some of these locally developed missiles that had been kept secret. This included a new cruise missile and ballistic missile that were ready for service. South Korea is usually secretive about its battlefield missiles although some details do leak. In 2009 South Korean media reported that a new cruise missile, with a range of 1,000 kilometres, had secretly entered production in 2008. The missile, called Hyunmoo 3, has since been superseded by the Hyunmoo 3C missile, which has a range of 1,500 kilometres and is being deployed along the North Korean border, aimed at ballistic missiles, nuclear weapons, and other strategic targets to the north. The longer range of the Hyunmoo 3C enables it to hit any target in North Korea and is apparently intended to knock out transportation and supply targets deep inside North Korea. With a range of 1,500 kilometres the missile could also hit targets in China and Russia.

Since the 1980s the United States has been discouraging South Korea from developing long range ballistic and cruise missiles. Despite the U.S. refusal to approve or cooperate South Korea developed a 180 kilometre range ballistic missile (Hyunmoo 1) and a 300 kilometre one (Hyunmoo 2) in the 1980s. Both are about 13 meters (40 feet) long and weigh 4-5 tons. By 2001 South Korea accepted the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) and thus agreed not to build ballistic missiles with a range of more than 300 kilometres. Hyunmoo 1 and 2 used a design based on that of the U.S. Nike-Hercules anti-aircraft missile, which South Korea used for many years and mastered the manufacturing technology for.

Cruise missiles are simpler technology, and apparently the Hyunmoo 3 is made entirely with South Korean developed components. Like the original American Tomahawk, Hyunmoo 3 appears to be about 6 meters (19 feet) long, weighs 1.5 tons, has a half ton warhead, and is launched from hidden (in the hills facing North Korea), and probably fortified, containers. North Korea has about 600 ballistic missiles aimed at South Korea but many of them are so old that their reliability in action is questionable.

In addition to locally made ballistic missiles in 2011 South Korea moved some of its American made ATACMS (Army Tactical Missile Systems) guided missiles close to the North Korean border. ATACMS is a 610mm rocket that fits in the same size container that normally holds six 227mm MLRS rockets. The ATACMS version in South Korean service has a range of 165 kilometres. That makes it capable of reaching many targets in North Korea but not the capital (Pyongyang, which is 220 kilometres north of the DMZ). There is a version of ATACMS with a range of 300 kilometres but South Korea did not have any. ATACMS is fired from the American MLRS rocket launcher. South Korea only has 220 ATACMS missiles. All of them have cluster bomb warheads. Half of them are unguided and have a range of 128 kilometres. The others have smaller warheads, GPS guidance, and a range of 165 kilometres. This is apparently the version moved close to the border, in order to make the North Koreans nervous. South Korea originally bought ATACMS in 1998, to have a weapon that could go after distant North Korean artillery and large concentrations of tanks.

Despite American opposition South Korea began developing, but not mass-producing, ballistic missiles in the 1970s. South Korea certainly has the technical expertise and manufacturing capability to produce a more modern ballistic missile with a range of 300 kilometres. At this point the United States is no longer trying to restrict South Korean missile development or production. The South Koreans tried for over a decade to develop warmer relations with North Korea and all efforts failed. The 2010 North Korea attacks (using artillery and a torpedo than sank a warship) on South Korea changed a lot of attitudes in South Korea, and the United States. North Korea is still a big problem but now South Korea is free to try whatever it thinks will work.

One negative side-effect of this missile program is that it puts parts of Russia and China at risk as well. Both nations are considered traditional threats to Korea and Russians and Chinese leaders are well aware of this. They also realize that South Korea is capable of developing and manufacturing nuclear weapons, and doing so quickly.

[Murray]

not right its all USA's fault according to Oldrider

[oldrider]

not right its all USA's fault according to Oldrider

Didn't say that - I said that USA position is hypocritical brandishing their WMD's as if it's OK for them and not for anyone else!

[Oakie]

Didn't say that - I said that USA position is hypocritical brandishing their WMD's as if it's OK for them and not for anyone else!

I do agree with you John.

[oldrider]

The world police are gathering to discuss North Korea - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11844669 Serious cost involved here! :corn:

[Brian d marge]

Oh bollocks ...Looks like they are focusing on nk
They really must be short of cash , need a new new pearl ,bay of Tomkin harbour asap


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[Voltaire]

Oh bollocks ...Looks like they are focusing on nk
They really must be short of cash , need a new new pearl ,bay of Tomkin harbour asap


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You mean they engineer an attack on the Mike Vinsen carrier?

Surely they will get SK to do all the dirty work...thats what Allies are for init?

[pritch]

Trump is a worry. That the DPRK (as it calls itself) is a problem long term isn't in doubt. That it now appears to be an immediate problem is entirely due to Donald Trump who is likely to do something silly on the basis that it will make him look presidential. Cross yer fingers.

[Katman]

You mean they engineer an attack on the Mike Vinsen carrier?

Surely they will get SK to do all the dirty work...thats what Allies are for init?

It doesn't always go according to plan.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

[Swoop]

You mean they engineer an attack on the Mike Vinsen carrier?
Fuck. I'm staying well away from New Lynn for a while then... http://www.mikevinsen.co.nz/about.aspx
;)


That the DPRK (as it calls itself)...
Any country that has "Democratic" in the title indicates it is anything but.

[Zedder]

Fuck. I'm staying well away from New Lynn for a while then... http://www.mikevinsen.co.nz/about.aspx
;)


Haha I thinks it's pretty safe. Dropped by another Mike with a motorcycle connection recently, Mike O'Sullivan ex Mt Eden Motorcycles has been on the North Shore for a while now.

[oldrider]

Destabilization Plots Against Syria and Venezuela :- http://www.globalresearch.ca/destabilization-plots-against-syria-and-venezuela/5586704 Sit and stay North Korea - or what? :scratch:

Never make threats that you can't carry out - Trump will have to back down when he is through sabre rattling and go away with his tail between his legs! :o

[Brian d marge]

Destabilization Plots Against Syria and Venezuela :- http://www.globalresearch.ca/destabilization-plots-against-syria-and-venezuela/5586704 Sit and stay North Korea - or what? :scratch:

Never make threats that you can't carry out - Trump will have to back down when he is through sabre rattling and go away with his tail between his legs! :o
How's that Russian navel base in Venezuela doing ,?


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[Zedder]

A bit of a fail for China apparently:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11846867

[pritch]

Some of you may not understand Korean? Still, it would be difficult to mistake the message.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/north-korea-puts-out-new-video-showing-the-white-house-in-crosshairs-and-carriers-exploding/2017/04/27/6b6a9596-2b2b-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.be52e2b70793&wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

[Swoop]

Destabilization Plots Against Syria and Venezuela

Ahh, yes. Venezuela.
The failed utopian socialist state, as they all end up being.

Staggering crime rate now...

[Brian d marge]

Ahh, yes. Venezuela.
The failed utopian socialist state, as they all end up being.

Staggering crime rate now...
Ya might want to look a bit deeper into Venezuela.
There is something smelly there
Follow the money and who holds the purse strings
And WHY isn't it news?


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[pritch]

There has been news. If police shooting protesters is still considered news.

[oldrider]

It's like back in the old school yard - pushin and shovin - yeah - yeah - yeah - my dads the policeman - Gods on my side etc etc! :facepalm:

[EJK]

Some of you may not understand Korean? Still, it would be difficult to mistake the message.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/north-korea-puts-out-new-video-showing-the-white-house-in-crosshairs-and-carriers-exploding/2017/04/27/6b6a9596-2b2b-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.be52e2b70793&wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

Wow that's some serious propaganda shit. Apparently multi-trillion dollar US Army is "animals" and should be afraid of total annihilation.

[Brian d marge]

There has been news. If police shooting protesters is still considered news.

Normal in any country

Even NZ does that

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[Laava]

Wish they'd get on with it...

[Katman]

Wish they'd get on with it...

Seriously, I've read a lot of retarded shit on here but that one takes the cake.

[nzspokes]

Seriously, I've read a lot of retarded shit on here but that one takes the cake.

Well they are, Launch from Norf Korea again and shot down by Merica again.

[oldrider]

Well they are, Launch from Norf Korea again and shot down by Merica again.

Think it just fell apart - No USA involvement? :mellow:

[Brian d marge]

Wish they'd get on with it...
Actually , me too , then I can get on with living
Actual living, not the slave labor curse of Cain that some folks mistake for life.


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[Laava]

Actually , me too , then I can get on with living
Actual living, not the slave labor curse of Cain that some folks mistake for life.


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Careful mate, Katboy is on the rags, don't upset him any more for fucks sake, he can't take any more butthurt!

[Laava]

Seriously, I've read a lot of retarded shit on here but that one takes the cake.

Sand in your vagina today sweetheart?

[Oakie]

Think it just fell apart - No USA involvement? :mellow:

The sticker on it indicated 'Made in North Korea'. That'll be the problem.

[Brian d marge]

Think it just fell apart - No USA involvement? :mellow:
No it didn't , they just got a new care package from the boys
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170429/6ae6cc77f901027905fa7b11ce573bb5.jpg

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[Katman]

Sand in your vagina today sweetheart?

Not at all.

I just feel obligated to expose retarded cunts when I see them.

[Laava]

Not at all.

I just feel obligated to expose retarded cunts when I see them.

Hey! Aren't you the guy that started a thread whining on about free speech? What a fucken hypocrite. And funny that you don't see the irony in calling other people retarded and cunts for expressing their opinion. You really are a sad and bitter little troll aren't you?

[pete376403]

CIA need to start a rumour that they have a saboteur in the Nth Korean missile programme. Kim will have the whole team executed. Problem solved.

[mossy1200]

CIA need to start a rumour that they have a saboteur in the Nth Korean missile programme. Kim will have the whole team executed. Problem solved.

Current team is fine. Why would you want the current failures replaced?

[SVboy]

Hey! Aren't you the guy that started a thread whining on about free speech? What a fucken hypocrite. And funny that you don't see the irony in calling other people retarded and cunts for expressing their opinion. You really are a sad and bitter little troll aren't you?

Lol! You called that one very well! Free speech....as long as you agree with dear leader...aka Katman!

[Woodman]

Yup North korea needs a good bombing before it gets nuclear capable.

[Swoop]

Yup North korea needs a good bombing before it gets nuclear capable.

Why bother?
The current situation is fine. Just report that a carrier is in the neighbourhood and the quantity of missiles and ballistic missiles fired into the sea will send the country into bankruptcy for a month.

Fat-boi will have another internal purge resulting in even more head-shed wanting to jump ship asap.

[Banditbandit]

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/trump-us-cyber-sabotage-north-korea-missiles-2017-4?r=US&IR=T

[oldrider]

Did anybody notice how the North Koreans are doing all their sabre rattling and shouting from their own backyard?

What a difference when you compare to the USA who are based in or around almost every country in the world causing real pain and destabilization!

Not making any judgement other than comparing the difference between the two modus operandi of the two countries involved. Who is the real threat here? :corn:

[Swoop]

1 May 2017: Economic sanctions have not persuaded North Korea to halt its ballistic missile and nuclear weapons programmes. For a long time the main reason the sanctions did not work was because China would not participate or, if they did, would not enforce them.
China is notoriously corrupt; something the Chinese government has been forced to admit because of growing public anger over how government (Communist Party) officials have long resisted attempts to curb their main sources of personal wealth. But now China has been forced, again by a growing anger among the Chinese public, to make a serious effort to curb domestic corruption and enforce sanctions against North Korea. The sanctions effort has been crippled by corruption, meaning that North Korea could still get a lot of key items for nuclear weapons and ballistic missile development if they are willing to pay the extra costs (bribes). The Chinese public, even with a heavily censored local Internet, made it clear they were not happy with a North Korea armed with nukes and ruled by a homicidal (and increasingly hostile to China) tyrant.

Yet the sanctions have hurt North Korea and crippled their armed forces and are increasingly vulnerable to sanctions that reduce access to imports essential for nukes, missiles and other military efforts. The United States, South Korea and even the UN have managed to obtain details of how North Korea partially overcomes many sanctions and that provides a short list of additional sanctions that would mainly hurt the North Korea military and government officials. Most of these will only work if China (and to a lesser extent Russia) cooperates.

For example, have China ban all oil exports to North Korea. China is the only sources of petroleum for North Korea and China has already cut the tonnage but is reluctant to halt all oil exports. In response North Korea has already converted thousands of trucks to run on coal gas. This sort of thing was popular in Japan and Germany during World War II because of oil shortages but largely disappeared after 1945. In North Korea these coal powered trucks are common for the same reason. But coal gas is half as efficient as petroleum fuels, are slower, have less range and require more maintenance.
Thus coal gas is not suitable for most military vehicles or combat operations. The sluggish and smoky coal powered trucks remind North Korean that their war is not over yet. Even though China now prosecutes and punishes some businesses that take bribes to help North Korea evade sanctions there are a few sanctions, like no oil at all, that would be much more difficult to evade and very expensive if North Korea persisted.

For example, ban North Korean commercial and military aircraft from foreign airports and the same with North Korean seagoing transports. Rail and road traffic into North Korea can be monitored because it can only enter via a few Chinese and Russian border crossings.

The U.S. has been successful at hunting down and punishing major banks and financial institutions that help North Korea move cash to fuel the illegal trade and this would be more effective if China cooperated. The banking sanctions could be more thorough and be extended to hundreds of individuals (most of them North Koreans) who make the illegal banking network function.

One of the more lucrative exports for North Korea is slave labour. Most of what North Korean workers overseas are paid is taken by an unofficial agent of the North Korean government and then the cash is transported back to North Korea. These legal North Korean migrant workers are part of what amounts to a slave labour programme that has become a major (up to $2 billion a year) source of foreign exchange for North Korea.
The export of North Korean workers has gone from 60,000 men and women in 2014 to over 100,000 in 2016. The number of workers outside the country is nearly triple what it was before since Kim Jong Un took over in 2011. The government takes up to 90 percent of the wages these men and women earn outside the country (mainly in Russia and China) and hold the workers’ families hostage in case the worker does not return home when ordered. If someone does not come back, their families are sent to prison camps.

North Korea has long used blatantly illegal exports (drugs, counterfeit currency, weapons, stolen data and tech) to keep its dictatorship and key (nuclear, chemical, ballistic missile) programmes going. These become more important if all bulk imports and exports are banned and only food and some medicines are allowed in. Even these imports have been abused, with food aid showing up in Chinese markets near the border, along with medical supplies donated to North Korea. So it is essential to go after the known corrupt North Korean practices when imposing and enforcing additional sanctions.

More effective sanctions are more essential now because the North Korean government is allowing another major famine (like the one in the 1990s that killed 5-10 percent of the population) to develop. The North Korean rulers believe having nuclear weapons will enable them to extort sufficient fuel, food and cash to turn things around. That is a fantasy and most of the potential North Korean victims are aware of their vulnerability. China does not want a mass rebellion and government collapse in North Korea, especially when there are nuclear weapons and a lot of other dangerous items involved. So this time around the Chinese appear ready and willing to support more effective sanctions.

[husaberg]

. China does not want a mass rebellion and government collapse in North Korea, especially when there are nuclear weapons and a lot of other dangerous items involved. So this time around the Chinese appear ready and willing to support more effective sanctions.
China's rulers, i feel is scared of a repeat of what happened after East Germany collapsed. The rest of the communist block quickly followed.

[Voltaire]

China's rulers, i feel is scared of a repeat of what happened after East Germany collapsed. The rest of the communist block quickly followed.

Was that them there Democracy thing that swept Europe when people got 'freedom' and the former Govt grabbed all the

assets?Sort of a speeded up version of the US.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that China is corrupt and the leaders are lining their own pockets :innocent:

The difference between Soviet and Chinese Communism is that the Chinese actually get off the arse to do some work, this

came as as shock to East Germany....it was like one huge Ministry of Works.

[husaberg]

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that China is corrupt and the leaders are lining their own pockets :innocent:

.

The root of the problem.
Stick a fork in it...

[Brian d marge]

Look into the Li family , esp David Li,.

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[Laava]

The root of the problem.
Stick a fork in it...

Do you think they have WMDs?
Now that I think about it, I am sure they must have! Hopefully someone will be along soon to moderate their behaviour...

[Brian d marge]

Do you think they have WMDs?
Now that I think about it, I am sure they must have! Hopefully someone will be along soon to moderate their behaviour...
No but someone has a big one ,

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[husaberg]

Do you think they have WMDs?
Now that I think about it, I am sure they must have! Hopefully someone will be along soon to moderate their behaviour...

Of coarse they do. Its plane to see.
Remember there is a new Sherriff in town, he wood not like to se the rot set in.

[Voltaire]

" Cake and Tomahawks"

http://www.theblogmire.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Trumps-Recipe-for-Disaster-1080x573.png

[husaberg]

" Cake and Tomahawks"

[/IMG]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/26/europe/france-syria-chemical-weapons/

France has said that it has proof that the Syrian government was behind a chemical weapons attack in Syria earlier this month that killed 89 people.
The French Foreign Minister Jean-Marc Ayrault said that samples taken from the attack on the rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhoun matched those from a previous incident.

"We have definite sources that the procedure used to make the Sarin sampled is typical of the methods developed in Syrian laboratories," he said. "This method bears the signature of the regime, and that is what has allowed us to establish its responsibility in this attack."


video shows a Su-22 Syrian aircraft taking off from the Shayrat airbase and dropping a bomb at about 6:55 a.m. local time. The airplanes were in the vicinity for about 20 minutes and then departed.
The bomb fell in the middle of a street, not on a building, the official said. She said U.S. officials observed leakage from that blast site consistent with chemical weapons, not explosive debris that would be expected from a conventional bomb. She said that follow-up samples of victims confirmed sarin gas.

The second White House official said U.S. intelligence indicates that people historically associated with Syria’s chemical weapons program were seen at the airfield in late March and again just before and during the attack.


The Syrian and Russian governments both have vehemently denied the regime was responsible for the attack. The Russian government has suggested that the release of nerve gas in the province of Idlib occurred when a bomb exploded on a terrorist-held warehouse containing chemical munitions.

[pete376403]

Excellent Tom Scott cartoon in the DomPost this morning. Cant find it online so will attempt to describe: Trump and military general alongside picture of Kim Jong Un. Trump, pointing at picture " How can you trust a narcissist megalomaniac with weird hair with nuclear weapons?" General: "The American people elected you sir, We have to"


Well I liked it.

[oldrider]

America? - through North Korean eyes? :shifty:

Why Do North Koreans Hate Us? One Reason — They Remember the Korean War:- https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/ :mellow:

[pritch]

Excellent Tom Scott cartoon in the DomPost this morning. Cant find it online so will attempt to describe: Trump and military general alongside picture of Kim Jong Un. Trump, pointing at picture " How can you trust a narcissist megalomaniac with weird hair with nuclear weapons?" General: "The American people elected you sir, We have to"


Well I liked it.

I haven't seen it but your description indicates that it's far from original.

[Zedder]

I haven't seen it but your description indicates that it's far from original.


It made me chuckle though. Wonder how many itchy trigger fingers are around when Trump gets out and about?

[pritch]

I don't think has been posted before. Trump can remember what he had for dinner but not where he sent 59 missiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZo7N1tCFZ0

[Voltaire]

America? - through North Korean eyes? :shifty:

Why Do North Koreans Hate Us? One Reason — They Remember the Korean War:- https://theintercept.com/2017/05/03/why-do-north-koreans-hate-us-one-reason-they-remember-the-korean-war/ :mellow:

I was in Vietnam both North and South a couple of years ago and they seemed to have moved on from " The American War" and from memory they had more

bombs dropped on them than Germany.

Are the Japanese anti American or the Germans?

Your average North Korean is probably no more anti west other than having to tow the "smart cookies" party line.

I wonder if they North's forces had not been pushed back would all of Korea be like that?

[oldrider]

I don't think has been posted before. Trump can remember what he had for dinner but not where he sent 59 missiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZo7N1tCFZ0


I was in Vietnam both North and South a couple of years ago and they seemed to have moved on from " The American War" and from memory they had more

bombs dropped on them than Germany.

Are the Japanese anti American or the Germans?

Your average North Korean is probably no more anti west other than having to tow the "smart cookies" party line.

I wonder if they North's forces had not been pushed back would all of Korea be like that?

With "leaders"? like Trump and Kim Jung Un why does the world have any problems at all? - They are amazing! :scratch:

Maybe this is true then? - Is North Korea a Diversion for a US-Jordan Invasion of Syria?:- http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46984.htm :corn:

[Banditbandit]

I was in Vietnam both North and South a couple of years ago and they seemed to have moved on from " The American War" and from memory they had more



The difference is that Vietnam won the war .. the Korean war never ended - just a negotiated armistice (cease fire) officially the US and South Korea are still at War with North Korea.

The North Koreans are also heavily propagandized ... and get shot if they do not appear to accept what their Government (i.e. the little shithead with the bad hair) says ..

[husaberg]

I was in Vietnam both North and South a couple of years ago and they seemed to have moved on from " The American War" and from memory they had more

bombs dropped on them than Germany.

Are the Japanese anti American or the Germans?

Your average North Korean is probably no more anti west other than having to tow the "smart cookies" party line.

I wonder if they North's forces had not been pushed back would all of Korea be like that?

At least they were offically in a war.

From 1964 to 1973, the U.S. dropped more than two million tons of ordnance on Laos during 580,000 bombing missions—equal to a planeload of bombs every 8 minutes, 24-hours a day, for 9 years - making Laos the most heavily bombed country per capita in history. The bombings were part of the U.S. Secret War in Laos to support the Royal Lao Government against the Pathet Lao and to interdict traffic along the Ho Chi Minh Trail.
http://legaciesofwar.org/about-laos/secret-war-laos/

[oldrider]

The difference is that Vietnam won the war .. the Korean war never ended - just a negotiated armistice (cease fire) officially the US and South Korea are still at War with North Korea.

Perhaps another difference is that unless they were involved with other allies (WW1 and WW2?) America has never won any wars! :rolleyes:

They just continuously stir shit everywhere world wide and create destruction death and misery where ever they go! :mad: Yet they are generally such nice people!!!!

Maybe it's true - Americans don't really run their own country? :rolleyes:

[Voltaire]

Perhaps another difference is that unless they were involved with other allies (WW1 and WW2?) America has never won any wars! :rolleyes:

They just continuously stir shit everywhere world wide and create destruction death and misery where ever they go! :mad: Yet they are generally such nice people!!!!

Maybe it's true - Americans don't really run their own country? :rolleyes:

I think they whupped Spain in the late 1800's....think thats why Porto Rico is part of the US of A ( sort of).

[pritch]

At least they were offically in a war.

Not officially, war was never declared. Korea was officially not a war, it was a "police action", just as Malaya was an "emergency". This linguistic dancing on the head of a pin is for insurance purposes.

[Banditbandit]

I think they whupped Spain in the late 1800's....think thats why Porto Rico is part of the US of A ( sort of).

And Mexico - they won that war too

[Brian d marge]

Perhaps another difference is that unless they were involved with other allies (WW1 and WW2?) America has never won any wars! :rolleyes:

They just continuously stir shit everywhere world wide and create destruction death and misery where ever they go! :mad: Yet they are generally such nice people!!!!

Maybe it's true - Americans don't really run their own country? :rolleyes:
The church , the bank and the bomb
The holy state Trinity
While they have had some setbacks , damn internet!!! They really must target fake news ,
Hang on a min they are!

While they have had some setbacks, the agenda is rolling on ,,

Thing that interests me is ,. Who has the bigger weapon

It ain't America,. Some group , gang of thugs , has something which is better than the world police have

In order to have " right'" both sides need an incentive, either by force or not

America is making a lot of noise but no action, why? Either being.. told, or cannot ?

Russia put a navel base on Americas doorstep, not a peep from Trump.

Imho

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[husaberg]

Not officially, war was never declared. Korea was officially not a war, it was a "police action", just as Malaya was an "emergency". This linguistic dancing on the head of a pin is for insurance purposes.

True but thats because American congress hasn't declared a war since WW2, but Laos wasn't even officially ever even part of the conflict, which was the point i was making, plus how heavily it was bombed

[ellipsis]

And Mexico - they won that war too

...they shot the fuck out of each other and someone won that one and they sure as hell beat the fuck out of the Native Americans

[husaberg]

...they shot the fuck out of each other and someone won that one and they sure as hell beat the fuck out of the Native Americans

They also beat the poms in the War of indepedence

[Brian d marge]

They also beat the poms in the War of indepedence

That was a false flag attack

[husaberg]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6077/6122972549_9a38350253.jpg
It was a bit red................

[PrincessBandit]

....I think the little fat boy is not capable of making the fully rational calculations we want from him. Others around him, who would be in line to replace him, are likely to be more clear-headed. I still say we need to terminate him, and quickly. This is a bad situation, 1938 all over again.

Which one, the Asian or the Trumpet?


......
I think America is just the puppet ...

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Again, Trump makes a great ventriloquist's dummy. :msn-wink:

[Brian d marge]

Which one, the Asian or the Trumpet?



Again, Trump makes a great ventriloquist's dummy. :msn-wink:
I wonder where they put their hand when Ivanka speaks ....

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[eldog]

I wonder where they put their hand when Ivanka speaks ....
k
Over their ears?

[jasonu]

I wonder where they put their hand when Ivanka speaks ....

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I put mine down me pants. The bitch be smokin!!!!!

[Brian d marge]

Green all around

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[eldog]

I still think this is all, a great big storm in a tea cup, beaten up by the worlds media- to keep peoples attention away from what is happening elsewhere.

Remember Petrol used to go up, every time something like this happened before, now - whatever mum. :weird:

buy a bike, go for a ride, or plan one, you can spend your time much better than this. :eek:

[husaberg]

The new South Korean leader is a bit more of a diplomat than Trump


“I am confident to lead the diplomatic efforts involving multiple parties, which will lead to the complete abandonment of the North Korean nuclear program, and bring the relationship between South and North to peace, economic co-operation and mutual prosperity,” he said during a debate in April.
This was funny.


“South Koreans are more concerned that Trump, rather than North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, will make a rash military move, because of his outrageous tweets, threats of force and unpredictability,”, a visiting fellow in Seoul, wrote recently in Foreign Affairs magazine.

[PrincessBandit]

I wonder where they put their hand when Ivanka speaks ....

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We know where the dummy puts his...(or should I say "grabs")



Oh, and another head rolls as he continues to gets rid of people. Does he still think he's running his reality show "You're fired!" ?

[husaberg]

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/248217-2/Rugby-wtf-crotch-grab.gif

[RDJ]

...and another head rolls as he continues to gets rid of people. Does he still think he's running his reality show "You're fired!" ?

I think he made the right call showing Comey the door and not caring if it hit him in the ass on his way out.

Can't have the head of the FBI saying yeah verily crimes were committed but because there was no criminal intent no prosecution is needed. Firstly, us little people don't get judged on intent we get judged on results; secondly, the head of the FBI doesn't decide who gets prosecuted that's for the DOJ.

Trump waited until Clapper and even Feinstein agreed there was nothing there in the so-called Russian connection; then he waited a bit longer until Rosenstein had been appointed so the chain of legality was intact; then he waited till Comey was publicly caught lying about the Huma-Weiner Domestic Axis of Emails - and then he dropped the hammer.

Good for him. More career not-serving-the-public-anymore 'servants' need to be shown the door when they screw the pooch. We could start here with the guy who beclowned himself by not kicking the imported rapist* out of our country. (*Also, "Mr Singh had also been convicted of drink driving, passport fraud, dangerous driving and failing to stop after an accident").

[oldrider]

If this is true - how will Trump respond? - Like he has with North Korea?:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4488784/China-says-tested-new-missile-northeastern-sea.html :corn: Interesting world!

[oldrider]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-14/north-korea-test-deliver-large-scale-heavy-nuclear-warhead-was-successful -: Who would have thought? :rolleyes:

[Brian d marge]

Me, it was a thirty min flight last time I checked.

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[Brian d marge]

Me, it was a thirty min flight last time I checked.

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And someone has a better weapon. Some sort of electro , frequency device
It's toasteriffic

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[Laava]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-14/north-korea-test-deliver-large-scale-heavy-nuclear-warhead-was-successful -: Who would have thought? :rolleyes:

But just in case that is not enough "provocation" it would be handy to accuse NK of being involved in the cyber virus sweeping the globe. Yep, it musta been them!

[Brian d marge]

But just in case that is not enough "provocation" it would be handy to accuse NK of being involved in the cyber virus sweeping the globe. Yep, it musta been them!
Oh definitely, they use Linux don't ya know.

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[Swoop]

It must be getting serious...

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