Tyre warmers overheating between races

[sharp2183]

So I've recently started measuring tyre temperature on the warmers, and have found that my Capit warmers are heating my tyres to 100 degrees at times.

The model I use does not use a thermostat and should heat to 80 only, but supposedly leaving them on too long overheats the tyres. The problem is that between races can be a few hours. Surely the warmers should be able to keep the tyres at a steady 80 degrees?

And what about track days? I was out yesterday and found that between sessions they were heating up to or just above 100. I even put on my spare warmers and they did the same.

Am I missing something? Is there some technique that I'm not aware of that stops this? Is 100 actually ok? Any ideas?

[jellywrestler]

So I've recently started measuring tyre temperature on the warmers, and have found that my Capit warmers are heating my tyres to 100 degrees at times.

The model I use does not use a thermostat and should heat to 80 only, but supposedly leaving them on too long overheats the tyres. The problem is that between races can be a few hours. Surely the warmers should be able to keep the tyres at a steady 80 degrees?

And what about track days? I was out yesterday and found that between sessions they were heating up to or just above 100. I even put on my spare warmers and they did the same.

Am I missing something? Is there some technique that I'm not aware of that stops this? Is 100 actually ok? Any ideas?

they must have a thremostat somewhere or they would heat to infinity, what model is it, do you have the handbook?

[Drew]

What you need is a second temperature gauge.

[Grumph]

If there was no thermostat they would not heat to infinity due to the resistance in them. If they did heat to infinity it would result in the warmers themselves melting which would indicate a short circuit/fault in the warmers.

Don't bandy words with a certified electrician...

If there is not a thermostat in them somewhere, it's possible to wire in a thermal cutout which you can tuck under the fabric.
They're available to my knowledge from people who make heaters - Argus in ChCh for example - and probably wholesalers too.
I put an inline heater which had no thermostat in my van water hose. An 18 deg C thermal cutout hoseclipped to the top hose and wired in worked well.

[sharp2183]

What you need is a second temperature gauge.

Yeah that was my first thought but after testing it with three different gauges I'm pretty confident it isn't that. They were infrared ones though, maybe not as accurate?

And yes, they definitely have no thermostat. All over the promo info for Capit warmers.

[Honest Andy]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

ha

cassinas a fucken idiot.
DON'T talk to an electrician about resisters and shit cos he will think you're a wanker...

Grumpf knows what he's talking about, use a thermal cutout, or a thermostat (which is just another type of thermal cutout but adjustable, which might be handy for different tyres)

You can get tyre warmers with thermostats in them already but twice the price! Sounds like your ones work like a heated towel rail in your house, basically unregulated except by the size of the element. So it doesn't get too hot by itself but it gets hotter on a warm day when there's no wind at the track, or if you insulate it better with extra stuff like, um, towels. And yes, it will keep getting hotter if you leave it on longer. Not to infinity, but yeah, too hot.

So in theory if you keep measuring the temp you could regulate it yourself by switching it on and off manually... and try not to forget about it...

[jellywrestler]

i'd be very surprised if they were legal to sell in nz without a temperature control, or overtemp cutout....

[jasonu]

i'd be very surprised if they were legal to sell in nz without a temperature control, or overtemp cutout....

I don't think the authorities would give a fuck about a few sets of el cheapo tire warmers.

The guy above you is right though, heated towel racks (maybe not all of them) just go and go until you turn them off.

[Grumph]

Your the fucken idiot in order to become a registered electrician you have to know about resistance as part of electrical theory. Its your electrician who is the wanker and I bet they are not registered if they dont know what resistance is. So if you employ them to do electrical work on your house and it burns down you will not have insurance cover.

All you've proved here - once again - is that you will pick an argument with qualified people when you know nothing of the subject.

Resist the temptation to post - please.

[sharp2183]

Was fully on track for a moment there!

Sounds like any warmer with no thermostat needs to be managed by the rider. Will need to start doing that.

To add data, yes on cold days it does not overheat, if a really hot day I have issues.

[Drew]

Was fully on track for a moment there!

Sounds like any warmer with no thermostat needs to be managed by the rider. Will need to start doing that.

To add data, yes on cold days it does not overheat, if a really hot day I have issues.

We get the back hoop so hot on Chop's superbike that ya can't hold onto the rim.

[sharp2183]

We get the back hoop so hot on Chop's superbike that ya can't hold onto the rim.

Really? And no issues obviously? the 80 degree is best idea obviously not the rule there?

[jellywrestler]

I don't think the authorities would give a fuck about a few sets of el cheapo tire warmers.

The guy above you is right though, heated towel racks (maybe not all of them) just go and go until you turn them off.

no but the coroner would, fact is everything sold in nz must have an SDOC whther mains wired or plugged in, heated towel rails have a limited output, tyre warmers do but they're designed to heat a lot of cold rubber but once hot they will keep heating unless a limitation is put on it, dangerous really

[jellywrestler]

Your the fucken idiot in order to become a registered electrician you have to know about resistance as part of electrical theory. Its your electrician who is the wanker and I bet they are not registered if they dont know what resistance is. So if you employ them to do electrical work on your house and it burns down you will not have insurance cover.

registered for 35 years and why waste my time detailing shit that would go over their head, i was trying to state it in basic terms, most people here already take an hour and a half to watch sixty minutes....

[jellywrestler]

What you need is a second temperature gauge.

what's the point of that, it's only going to be of any use if someone watches it and turns them off.

[Drew]

what's the point of that, it's only going to be of any use if someone watches it and turns them off.

Was meaning to check the temp gauge, not the warmers.

[Drew]

Really? And no issues obviously? the 80 degree is best idea obviously not the rule there?


Yep. We put the blanket over the warmers to get them super hot on cold days.

[Honest Andy]

Your the fucken idiot in order to become a registered electrician you have to know about resistance as part of electrical theory. Its your electrician who is the wanker and I bet they are not registered if they dont know what resistance is. So if you employ them to do electrical work on your house and it burns down you will not have insurance cover.

Jesus you're hard work...
Of course every electrician knows all about resistance you dumb cunt :laugh: it's learnt on the first day, then they learn about volts and current and a bunch of other stuff AND then how to mix them all together with CONTROL! And CONTROL is what Grumph and I KNOW is required in this case!

So don't worry your poxy little head about it, the big boys have got it sorted :2thumbsup

[nzspokes]

I assumed from poser 1 they had no electrical knowledge and felt they would be best to contact one. If he has no electrical knowledge he would still be best to have an electrician do what you recommend too.

Assumption is one of your problems along with spouting things you dont know about. :facepalm:

[nzspokes]

Yep. We put the blanket over the warmers to get them super hot on cold days.

You are trying to heat the rim as well to help the tyre hold heat then?

Ive not played with warmers.

[Drew]

You are trying to heat the rim as well to help the tyre hold heat then?

Ive not played with warmers.
Yip. That's how you know they're up to temp so you can set your pressures too.

[mossy1200]

i'd be very surprised if they were legal to sell in nz without a temperature control, or overtemp cutout....

Likely just a fixed resistance like an electric blanket tested to a calculated delivery of 80deg. If any fail safe installed its most likely a one shot thermal micro temp similar to the ones used in fan heaters. Once tripped no more go.

Im tending towards the thermo used to measure the tires is the issue.

Saying that if OP is not happy with them I could use them.
You can buy a plug in adapter that will give you one off every 15mins which will give you lower temperatures.

[eldog]

From Capit web site:

The first tyrewarmers without thermostat inside. Thanks a special cable we can fix temperature to 85°C homogeneus. Our all competitors using thermostat ON/OFF inside: THERMOSTAT IS OLD WAY TO KEEP YOUR TYREWARMERS WARM. TNT is the future!Nonconducting internal areas dire resistant in pure aranidic fibre (high energy saving: only 200 Watt instead of 400 each one)
Perfect water resistance in extreme conditions
More abrasion resistance for the tyres
Light check control
External cable in ever-aging gum, water resistant, oil resistant and fuel resistant, competitors use PVC gum.

looks nice
They also sell controllers which can set the temp etc. I would expect a dead band of a few degrees but not upto 100

Is it a product for the NZ voltage market?

[eldog]

You can buy a plug in adapter that will give you one ... every 15mins

Really only every 15 min? :bleh:

[OddDuck]

About the only thing here I can comment on...

if you were using point and shoot radiation thermometers to check the tyre pressures, you should be alright if you're using the right emissivity value. There's a good table here:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/emissivity-coefficients-d_447.html

I'd make it about 0.91 or so. Shoot with hot things like the engine, headers, muffler etc out of the background and you should be OK.

Make sure that you fill the thermometer's field of view with nothing but tyre, the side of the gun should have a set of circles showing target diameter vs distance. Apologies if I'm telling you stuff you're already familiar with.

If unsure, a good cross-check would be a digital meat thermometer, the pointy bit laid flat in a tyre groove if possible and with cotton wool taped over the top of it for insulation against colder air.

[malcy25]

Could always talk to the guys who make them or import them. Kevin G at Race supplies is the importer for NZ and great to work with. far more sensible than listening to Cassina who comes under the heading of "consutant". The term consultant as once being described to me as someone who knows all about sex, but is a virgin.... :laugh:

[caseye]

Could always talk to the guys who make them or import them. Kevin G at Race supplies is the importer for NZ and great to work with. far more sensible than listening to Cassina who comes under the heading of "consutant". The term consultant as once being described to me as someone who knows all about sex, but is a virgin.... :laugh:

Ay7e!, Wot? Do something that might actually get you a proper, sensible answer?????????? HERE on KB? R u Knutz?
Hey guys, I know, do what malcy25 has just suggested, all the guess work gone and no idiots listened too, spouting thier usual BS.
Good work malcy25.
Bit radical, but hey, it's worth a crack, aye Nigel?

[Mental Trousers]

My preferred option is stick them on a shelve and get some that are adjustable. Last set I bought were $320 at my door.

[malcy25]

No one in reply to my posts said what I suggested would not work and if you read my first post again I did say that there would be others that know both about tyre warmers and electrical work who may give different suggestions which is what has happened. So you are really an odd ball to think I was giving false information with my replies.

Quite correct, but lets face it, by providing an answer that was as relevant as saying "light the fuse sticking out the side of that Saturn 5 rocket" to someone who said "I'm having a problem putting a man on the moon". . So, where did I say your information was false? Anyone can suggest an irrelevant solution to a problem, the trick is knowing when not to.

[malcy25]

My preferred option is stick them on a shelve and get some that are adjustable. Last set I bought were $320 at my door.

Got both Holroyds and Capits, neither of which are temp adjustable. Both have some form of temp control process going on as I see them going on and off at various times. Have to admit, the adjustability of a flasher set would just be one more variable that I'd end ignoring! They seem to work at a level that brings they tyres to a nice "brie cheese" setting....and I'm always early out the garage so I lose a bit of temp. so on the high side good for me. Plus as some less than charitable souls would say, the tyres would come back cooler than I started from my riding!

[Mental Trousers]

My preferred option is stick them on a shelve and get some that are adjustable. Last set I bought were $320 at my door.

Got both Holroyds and Capits, neither of which are temp adjustable. Both have some form of temp control process going on as I see them going on and off at various times. Have to admit, the adjustability of a flasher set would just be one more variable that I'd end ignoring! They seem to work at a level that brings they tyres to a nice "brie cheese" setting....and I'm always early out the garage so I lose a bit of temp. so on the high side good for me. Plus as some less than charitable souls would say, the tyres would come back cooler than I started from my riding!

Mostly mine are set on the same temperature and left. However, now I actually run the front warmer at a higher temp than the rear. They're also great for wets cos I turn them right down to their minimum setting of 30C so I can get some heat into the entire wheel without overheating the rubber.

Search for Sumomoto on Alibaba and take a look at the V5 warmers.

[malcy25]

The solution that I proposed was not irrelevant but simply an "alternative" to what the guys who knew both about tyre warmers and electricity said. You are the sort of person who would not think of "outside the square" solutions to problems from what you have said.

Lol, alternative facts. and thanks to Trump we all know what they are.

Thanks for taking the bait by the way, you are not even very good at trolling. if you going to troll someone, never assume the person knows less than you.

[malcy25]

I never assume they no more either.

It's "know" and maybe you should.

[Grumph]

I never assume they know more either otherwise why would I waste my time responding?

That - and your sex - if any - are two of the great unsolved mysteries of KB.....

[Zedder]

That - and your sex - if any - are two of the great unsolved mysteries of KB.....


Getting a fair idea about the level of sanity (or lack thereof) though...

[sharp2183]

My preferred option is stick them on a shelve and get some that are adjustable. Last set I bought were $320 at my door.

Got a link to those?

[sharp2183]

Have now talked to Kevin who I bought the warmers from who has advised me that the warmers shouldn't be on longer than 2 hours or they will overheat. Kevin is a great guy who I have trusted for years, so I take this at face value.

I just don't think that it quite reflects real world usage as an ideal scenario.

[steveyb]

Just thought that I would chuck in a few cents worth here, cos I have been around tyrewarmers for a while now [having previously owned tyrewarmers.co.nz] so thought it my business to find out how the different ones are put together etc.

The CAPit warmers made in Italy are probably the industry leaders at this time. Their single temperature product has technology, as has been identified herein already, that does not use an inbuilt switch as all other single temp products do. They do adjustable temperature products with a controller, as do other brands. CapIt are all over MotoGP and make a great product. The key though, is that their useage is different to that of the switched products, as KG has pointed out. Without the switch, it is possible for the element to keep heating and go over its design temperature, given certain conditions. So, the warmers are not designed to be left on all day. This of course is typical of European racing where you have a smaller number of longer sessions, rather than our short sessions all day long. So there, you heat the tyres for the time required and that is that. Whereas here, we have one set to last all day, and multiple days when it comes to that.

The 'Holroyd' warmers made in the UK under the RaceTec and Tyrewarmers.co.nz brands are a much less sophisticated warmer, but a product that works extremely well. The key to the CapIt and Holroyd warmers is the amount of heating element that is in them, and the insulation. In a RaceTec warmer there will be something like 15 to 20m of sheilded element. CapIt is similar. This means that the heat density per unit area in these products is lower than the cheaper Chinese warmers which if you are lucky will have 5-8m of unsheilded element. This means that the propensity for those latter products to overheat locally and burn the warmer and then the tyre is much higher. I have seen new chinese warmers burn holes into brand new tyres, fucking everything! All of the other common brands that are on the market are made in China, probably in the same factory, HotHoops, MotoGP, Sumomoto etc etc. In all my years of looking at warmers, which I do cos I am a bit neardy that way, I have never seen a 'higher level' brand for want of a better term, burn holes in tyres.

The insulation outboard of the element means that less energy is input into the warmer because less of it is being used to heat the cold air around the outside of the warmer.

The orientation of the element in the RaceTec product, circumfirential, is also, I believe, a better design, offering more even heating of the tyre surface. CapIt use the wave design, but as I said, use a lot of element, so the heat coverage is also very good.

The RaceTec product uses a simple bimetallic switch that opens the circuit at a given temperature. With some effort this can be changed for a different temperature range. I have lower temperature switches [for 70 deg C which was apparently preferred for the Pirelli tyres] and replacement 80 deg C switches. Of course the switches can fail over time, but they are replacable and thankfully almost always seem to fail open circuit, which is good. But this means that you can, in theory at least, leave them on indefinitely and they will maintain the correct temperature, within reason of course. The over/under temperature is 5deg at best. But one trick is that if you put the join [where the switch is near] under the mudguard, it will get hotter there than the lowest part of the warmer. So it is best to put the join at the lowest part of the wheel so as to get better temperature all round.

There are other technologies that have been used. A great product was from California where the guy imbedded the element into a cast sheet of high temperature silicone rubber and then made a covering and more insulation around that. These were the best warmers I have seen, but sadly he gave all his money away in sponsorship and inventory and went bust, taking all the jigs and IP with him. They were really good warmers. I'm sure there were a few of those still around.

Another was from Germany where they used element printed onto high temperature plastic sheet [poly carb or something I assume, sort of like roasting bag polymer] and forming that into a warmer that always had a curved shape. This offered superior heating, but it came with a fuck off huge and heavy control box with a torroidal converter in it. Nowadays, and then too really, that control would be done with a small switch mode power supply. They also had diabolical male plugs that just got hammered!! Germans eh? Go figure. I wonder if there are still any of them around?

The ChickenHawk brand from the USA are also a good product, but they have not been all that keen on making a 240V product cos they make plenty for the 110V markets. They can do it, no problem, just not so keen, at least that was their story back in the day. Colt warmers were made in Australia, not sure if they are still around. They were a great product.

So anyway, the upshot is that like most things, you get what you pay for. OK, so $320 landed for Chinese warmers with a control box is all well and good, but I would not put those warmers any where near my pair of $400, $500, $600 pair of tyres having seen the damage they can do, and sadly, when they fail, they tend to do it in closed circuit!

Oh and incidentally, as this is where this thread started, the use of an InfraRed thermometer to measure tyre temperature is highly fraught. They are typically not calibratated to correctly measure the diffuse blackbody radiation that eminates from a hot tyre. The only reliable method is a contact thermocouple type thermometer such as used by tyre technicians at MotoGP/WSBK. IR thermostats only used there to look at heat of header pipes and track temperatures [roughly as they use the contact type for that too].


My few cents worth.

[Mental Trousers]

Got a link to those?

Here you go. They used to have an eSite but it's easier to sell through Alibaba now. I have 2 sets of the V5 Digital warmers, they're brilliant.

https://sumomoto.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-50382318/Tyre_Warmer.html

[Mental Trousers]

All of the other common brands that are on the market are made in China, probably in the same factory, HotHoops, MotoGP, Sumomoto etc etc.

Probably Hangzhou.


So anyway, the upshot is that like most things, you get what you pay for. OK, so $320 landed for Chinese warmers with a control box is all well and good, but I would not put those warmers any where near my pair of $400, $500, $600 pair of tyres having seen the damage they can do, and sadly, when they fail, they tend to do it in closed circuit!

I've been using the Sumomoto warmers for over 8 years now without a single problem. I'm still surprised at how good they are. They've been way more reliable, consistent and easier to use than the RaceTec warmers I originally had.

You do take a risk whichever way you go. The CapIt's aren't really built for the New Zealand use-case so should we really use them here?

[steveyb]

Probably Hangzhou.



I've been using the Sumomoto warmers for over 8 years now without a single problem. I'm still surprised at how good they are. They've been way more reliable, consistent and easier to use than the RaceTec warmers I originally had.

You do take a risk whichever way you go. The CapIt's aren't really built for the New Zealand use-case so should we really use them here?

Well, that must mean that you take very good care of them, which is great, cos we all should, but so many do not.
The age of those warmers is also relevant actually, cos the experience of the first batches was actually very good. The later batches, hmmm, not so good.

CapIts? I think they are the best you can buy currently, one just needs to use them a bit differently. Such as, switch them off every so often so as to not over heat them. One can still maintain the tyre temperature perfectly well.

Keep looking after those warmers!

[sharp2183]

Steveyb, that is the most useful comment I have ever seen on this site, thanks for taking the time to educate us. Sounds like the solution is to switch them on and off occasionally to maintain the right temp.

[malcy25]

Have now talked to Kevin who I bought the warmers from who has advised me that the warmers shouldn't be on longer than 2 hours or they will overheat. Kevin is a great guy who I have trusted for years, so I take this at face value.

I just don't think that it quite reflects real world usage as an ideal scenario.

In all my time racing and doing track days, using warmers (7 years using warmers still got that first set) it's unlikely (but not impossible) that my warmers would be switched on for more than 2 hours. Ie get to the circuit, set up, signed on bike check cold pressures done, warmers on. May be an hour to practice. Warmers off and turned off. Session complete, warmers on and turned on, may be an hour or so to first race, warmers turned off, warmers off.....yada yafda, you get the picture though.

Anyway, good you talked to Kevin. My 7 year old set of warmers are Holroyds and while looking a bit tatty are going strong. The Capits do feel nicer though...!

[Drew]

In all my time racing and doing track days, using warmers (7 years using warmers still got that first set) it's unlikely (but not impossible) that my warmers would be switched on for more than 2 hours. Ie get to the circuit, set up, signed on bike check cold pressures done, warmers on. May be an hour to practice. Warmers off and turned off. Session complete, warmers on and turned on, may be an hour or so to first race, warmers turned off, warmers off.....yada yafda, you get the picture though.

Anyway, good you talked to Kevin. My 7 year old set of warmers are Holroyds and while looking a bit tatty are going strong. The Capits do feel nicer though...!
Set your pressures once the hoops are at warmer temp. It's more consistent.

[malcy25]

Set your pressures once the hoops are at warmer temp. It's more consistent.

Yeah, I should. I'm too old school!

I have bikes that I can/should use warmers (D212 and NTEC) and can't use warmers on (lightweight proddie), and bikes that I have ridden before I used warmers....and technically the tyre maker says don't need warmers (Avon) with them, though we all do! So have stuck with one base line.

Interestingly the Little Ninja I run 3-4 psi cold lower tems at HD club circuit vs National Circuit.

I need to sit down one day and start matching known cold start point to correlate to a known hot pressure. Until then though what I'm doing works, but I do know it's probably not as optimal as it could be. Surprisingly, all my tyres always look really good with no obvious shear or other issues. But as previously mentioned, some uncharitable souls will say that because of the speed I ride at!

[jasonu]

why would I waste my time responding?

I think most around here would prefer you didn't.

[nzspokes]

Is there any point in running them on sport tyres for track days? I guess just doing a couple of slower laps to warm them up will do or does the number of heat cycles really matter?

[malcy25]

Is there any point in running them on sport tyres for track days? I guess just doing a couple of slower laps to warm them up will do or does the number of heat cycles really matter?

$64k question. On the bike I used at track days for years, I never did when I ran Q2 Dunlops for the 4 years I used those tyres (and still don't now using D212GP Pro 3 front and GP Racer NTEC rear). Generally as I understand it, their operating temperatures are lower as compared to slicks and DOT race tyres. I know Dave Freeman who has raced on Conti's for years will in winter go to a road compound as it's easier to get and keep to their operating temp and he's no slouch.

Seen hundreds of guys over the years on sports style tyres using say 30/30 psi F/R and a lap or 2 warm up with no issues.

[nzspokes]

$64k question. On the bike I used at track days for years, I never did when I ran Q2 Dunlops for the 4 years I used those tyres (and still don't now using D212GP Pro 3 front and GP Racer NTEC rear). Generally as I understand it, their operating temperatures are lower as compared to slicks and DOT race tyres. I know Dave Freeman who has raced on Conti's for years will in winter go to a road compound as it's easier to get and keep to their operating temp and he's no slouch.

Seen hundreds of guys over the years on sports style tyres using say 30/30 psi F/R and a lap or 2 warm up with no issues.

Cheers, I would only bother if there was a big benefit in it.

[Drew]

Cheers, I would only bother if there was a big benefit in it.

There is. The danger of crashing is reduced when you go out on the racetrack.

[steveyb]

Is there any point in running them on sport tyres for track days? I guess just doing a couple of slower laps to warm them up will do or does the number of heat cycles really matter?

All tyres need to attain a certain warm temperature [that temperature is dependent on the tyre construction and compound] in order to be able to deform in the carcass and in the tread so as to grip the road.
The sooner that can happen, the better will the tyre work [that is without considering the pressure component of the equation].
If the tyre is too cold and stressed too much too early, it will either not grip and slide over the road surface leading to a slide or a fall, or it can start to tear, or at best it can just feel really bad. That is without considering that the track you are at may have only one or two corners in one direction so that the tyre surface may not be optimally heated after 2 laps or whatever, leading to a false sense of security.
So, the answer really is and other question: Do you want to go fast straightaway on your trackdays, or do you want to risk falling down early on tyres that are too cold for the conditions in which you are riding?
I think that warmers are a good idea for all riders at trackdays, especially those on big powerful bikes.

[Grumph]

I think that warmers are a good idea for all riders at trackdays, especially those on big powerful bikes.

Undoubtedly correct. But ironically the big powerful bikes will warm a tyre faster once on track.
IMO most benefit is seen with the lighter bikes which could be considered to be overtyred for their weight and power. Without warmers, getting those up to temp can take much longer than expected.
There's also a surprising lack of awareness of how a particular track can affect things. Levels is a good example - 540 odd degrees turning to the left before the first righthander...That's caught out some very experienced riders.

[nzspokes]

All tyres need to attain a certain warm temperature [that temperature is dependent on the tyre construction and compound] in order to be able to deform in the carcass and in the tread so as to grip the road.
The sooner that can happen, the better will the tyre work [that is without considering the pressure component of the equation].
If the tyre is too cold and stressed too much too early, it will either not grip and slide over the road surface leading to a slide or a fall, or it can start to tear, or at best it can just feel really bad. That is without considering that the track you are at may have only one or two corners in one direction so that the tyre surface may not be optimally heated after 2 laps or whatever, leading to a false sense of security.
So, the answer really is and other question: Do you want to go fast straightaway on your trackdays, or do you want to risk falling down early on tyres that are too cold for the conditions in which you are riding?
I think that warmers are a good idea for all riders at trackdays, especially those on big powerful bikes.

Ok, yeah I see your point. Next track day will be my first on the CBR1k but that probably wont be until summer now. I dont tend to go out hard in the first couple of laps anyway but would rather not go down.

So are the temps needed on a road going tyre the same as a slick? i presume they are?

[Drew]

Ok, yeah I see your point. Next track day will be my first on the CBR1k but that probably wont be until summer now. I dont tend to go out hard in the first couple of laps anyway but would rather not go down.

So are the temps needed on a road going tyre the same as a slick? i presume they are?

Two or three laps are not enough to warm a tyre properly from ambient temperature. That's race rubber like.

Sports tyres would be close though.

[nzspokes]

Two or three laps are not enough to warm a tyre properly from ambient temperature. That's race rubber like.

Sports tyres would be close though.

Im on Bridgestone RS10s.

[Drew]

Im on Bridgestone RS10s.

If those are supposed to compete with supercorsas or racetecs, I'd want to use warmers.

[nzspokes]

If those are supposed to compete with supercorsas or racetecs, I'd want to use warmers.

i guess so, they came on the bike.

[malcy25]

i guess so, they came on the bike.

RS10's are the most road orientated of the that range. The R10 etc (ie no S for street) are more in line the Supercorsas etc.

I'm using those on my 300 Ninja (without warmers due to MNZ class restrictions)

[nzspokes]

RS10's are the most road orientated of the that range. The R10 etc (ie no S for street) are more in line the Supercorsas etc.

I'm using those on my 300 Ninja (without warmers due to MNZ class restrictions)

I know little about tyres at this level apart from I have read the rear RS10 have a lower height than other brands so you may need to allow for that in the chassis. Not like I can as I cant shim the shock.

So when I burn this pair up, Supercorsas would be the go?

[Drew]

I know little about tyres at this level apart from I have read the rear RS10 have a lower height than other brands so you may need to allow for that in the chassis. Not like I can as I cant shim the shock.

So when I burn this pair up, Supercorsas would be the go?So lower the front.

[Honest Andy]

Oooops nearly forgot... link for a thermostat: http://www.haurakihomebrew.co.nz/beer-making-equipment/1528-dual-temperature-controller.html
Plug and play :niceone:
Or check with your local homebrew shop, brewers like to convert their fridges into all-temperature brewing machines, so there is a range of similar things around. They are all really accurate to within a couple of degrees. Just check the temperature range cos brewers need lower temps to you.

[nzspokes]

So lower the front.

Apparently they want a higher front, but all Im going to do is go a 55 profile rear tyre next time around.

[steveyb]

I forgot to add earlier, the other leading brand of warmer is KLS also from Germany.
They indicate that they use a 'unique' type of heater which is a heating sheet, not a wire element as such.
I am pretty sure that Movistar Yamaha now use KLS warmers after changing from CapIt.
KLS come highly recommended.