Modern 250s vs 80/90's 250s

[6money]

There are some similar threads already on this topic, but nothing at answers my question, so I've started this one.
I'm looking at buying a new 250 sport bike at the moment, but have only previously ridden trail/duel purpose bikes before so I'm new to sport bikes.


So anyway I've read quite a bit about the older 4 cylinder bikes 250s like the cbr250rr and gsxr250 and they sound like a lot of fun and have a bit of character to them.
Also they are getting quite old now, 20-30 years old and parts can be rare to source.

Then there are the newer 250s like the 1 cylinder cbr250 and ninja 250, which I've read are gutless things compared to the older bikes mentioned above and people seem to get tired of them quickly.
However they are obviously newer, more parts on hand and easier to find in good condition.


It would be good if i get some opinions on what a better buy would be. I'm already leaning towards an older bike, but would I be foolish to buy a more fun bike that could have/develop issues over
a newer less exciting bike?

[FJRider]

With the introduction of the LAM's class motorcycles (251-660 cc) ... the importance of a range of styles and performance capability in 250cc motorcycles has largely been removed.

LAM's also removed the need for a clapped out (old) high mile and age 250 ... (because of license restrictions of the time) ... with larger (and now) new bikes well suited and capable for less experienced riders. Some older ones in this class can be still found with reasonable km's ... and condition. Often cheaply too.

With a rider having some good/basic on-road experience already ... restricting yourself to a 250 would be silly ... as you would tire of it (very) quickly.

The limitation is only what your budget can stand.

[6money]

With the introduction of the LAM's class motorcycles (251-660 cc) ... the importance of a range of styles and performance capability in 250cc motorcycles has largely been removed.

LAM's also removed the need for a clapped out (old) high mile and age 250 ... (because of license restrictions of the time) ... with larger (and now) new bikes well suited and capable for less experienced riders. Some older ones in this class can be still found with reasonable km's ... and condition. Often cheaply too.

With a rider having some good/basic on-road experience already ... restricting yourself to a 250 would be silly ... as you would tire of it (very) quickly.

The limitation is only what your budget can stand.


I get what you're saying about restricting myself to a 250cc, but I've riding a 88' XR250 on the road for the last 4 years (XR was road legal of course) and wasn't tiring of it even though it barely made 100km/h :laugh:
I find myself more attracted to the 250cc - 400cc range, so going for another 250cc isn't a big worry for me at the moment.

So let's just pretend I can only afford a 250cc, go for old or new?

[James Deuce]

I get what you're saying about restricting myself to a 250cc, but I've riding a 88' XR250 on the road for the last 4 years (XR was road legal of course) and wasn't tiring of it even though it barely made 100km/h :laugh:
I find myself more attracted to the 250cc - 400cc range, so going for another 250cc isn't a big worry for me at the moment.

So let's just pretend I can only afford a 250cc, go for old or new?

You're insane.

Also the Ninja is a 300cc twin and will make your XR feel positively asthmatic. Just like your XR would probably make you wonder why anyone would get excited about a new single cylinder Honda CBR250.

The old 250s are all fucked. The very few good ones left will be more expensive than a lightly warmed, very recent, ever so slightly used Ninja 300. Also there is a Versys 300 on the way with a 19" front wheel if you want to keep riding on gravel roads and remain comfortable while doing some decent distance.

[6money]

Just like your XR would probably make you wonder why anyone would get excited about a new single cylinder Honda CBR250.

Yea I was thinking that about the new cbr250...



The very few good ones left will be more expensive than a lightly warmed, very recent, ever so slightly used Ninja 300.

So I'm assuming the reason they are so expensive is because they are so much more exciting than the Ninja? :shifty:

[6money]

You're insane.

Also the Ninja is a 300cc twin and will make your XR feel positively asthmatic. Just like your XR would probably make you wonder why anyone would get excited about a new single cylinder Honda CBR250.

The old 250s are all fucked. The very few good ones left will be more expensive than a lightly warmed, very recent, ever so slightly used Ninja 300. Also there is a Versys 300 on the way with a 19" front wheel if you want to keep riding on gravel roads and remain comfortable while doing some decent distance.

So what you are saying is older 250s are better, ONLY if it's in good condition. Otherwise go to a ninja 300?

[James Deuce]

So what you are saying is older 250s are better, ONLY if it's in good condition. Otherwise go to a ninja 300?
Yes. And by "good condition" I mean it better have had a couple of decent overhauls in its time and at least one new rear shock, and all bearings replaced (Sprocket carrier, wheel, steering head, swing arm pivot) carbs that have been rebuilt, compression across all 4 cylinders that looks like they are from the same bike, not two lawn mowers and a radio controlled car, and brakes that work, not some pistons firmly wedged in the calipers that move the pads onto the disks by using . I did this with a Katana 400 once and it was really rewarding. But you don't get that money back, so as a buyer you shouldn't be expected to carry the cost of normal servicing, which does get more costly as machines get older. Unless it's NZ and you just bodge it with a merry, "she'll be right!", and wobble off into the sunset.

[6money]

Yes. And by "good condition" I mean it better have had a couple of decent overhauls in its time and at least one new rear shock, and all bearings replaced (Sprocket carrier, wheel, steering head, swing arm pivot) carbs that have been rebuilt, compression across all 4 cylinders that looks like they are from the same bike, not two lawn mowers and a radio controlled car, and brakes that work, not some pistons firmly wedged in the calipers that move the pads onto the disks by using . I did this with a Katana 400 once and it was really rewarding. But you don't get that money back, so as a buyer you shouldn't be expected to carry the cost of normal servicing, which does get more costly as machines get older. Unless it's NZ and you just bodge it with a merry, "she'll be right!", and wobble off into the sunset.

:lol: Ok sweet, cheers for confirming my suspicions. I already have my eye on a gsxr250 with low kms on it, I'll just have to have a peek under the fairings.

[James Deuce]

:lol: Ok sweet, cheers for confirming my suspicions. I already have my eye on a gsxr250 with low kms on it, I'll just have to have a peek under the fairings.
Check stuff like cable operation, gear linkages, gear changes when cold, brake hoses - if it has the original brake hoses, budget to replace them front and rear when you offer money to buy the bike. It should have a matched set of tyres. I had a GSXR250 from new, they have 17" rims, so decent tyres aren't that hard to find. Check the fuse box and as much of the wiring loom as you can see - honestly, old bikes are a minefield. Get a Ninja 300. Or a KTM 390. Anything other than learner bike that has been thrashed hard for nearly 30 years and put away wet by ham-fisted hooligans with no mechanical sympathy and a predilection for smoked indicator lenses and anodised bolts. And stickers; lots and lots of stickers.

[Asher]

The only older bike I would say to go for is a RVF400 which for some backwards reason is LAMS approved.
No matter how good the older 4 cylinder bikes seem I would advise against ( and I own an RGV250 and ZXR400). They require a huge amount of maintenance, even a low km one has been sitting around for 25 years making oil seals brittle and rusting out tanks and cables etc.
A newer bike will be more expensive and slightly slower but having a bike you can just get on and ride and trust to not break down on the way is worth it in my opinion.
If you want a small sports bike I would suggest a KTM RC390, Yamaha R3 or Kawasaki Ninja 300 (in that order), if you just want a faired bike look at the CBR500. But in my opinion the MT07 is the best value LAMS bike

[FJRider]

... So let's just pretend I can only afford a 250cc, go for old or new?

How much they cost is not determined solely by cc rating.

On a budget ... look more at km's traveled rather than age. Don't spend all the budget on the bike ... save some for good riding gear, better suited to the new style of motorcycle. And some for gas money so you can afford to actually ride it.

Money spent too ... on certified rider training courses ... is money well spent.

[GrayWolf]

So what you are saying is older 250s are better, ONLY if it's in good condition. Otherwise go to a ninja 300?

Better? POSSIBLY, if as James points out, they are exceptionally well maintained and not 40-50k+km machines.
The average 250 will have been owned by a constant stream of 'Ernest Thrashers' who just as likely have NOT had the correct periodic maintenance done. Remember a 4 cyl bike has a 'fixed price' for it's service schedule and that is several hundreds. CC size has no bearing on cost, amount of cylinders do. Major services are around $5-600. Doesn't take much to work out how many of those may have never gotten performed.
Cheap chinese made fairings can soon make a neglected and thrashed to fuck bike look reasonable. The really fast older 250's were taken out of the LAM's list KR, RGV etc. Most of the modern twins will get close or break 160kph. Do you REALLY need faster? Plus 20+ yr better suspension, brakes etc.

[nzspokes]

As stated here, get a modern bike and learn how to ride it well. Yes the old 250s had 45hp. But they only have that if they are running right, which is not often. And they are tiny.

A well ridden GS500 will piss over a badly ridden CBR250. Concentrate on being a great rider, not having a great bike. Modern bike will let you ride over spending time trying to get it running.

[onearmedbandit]

Damn we were lucky with the range of 250cc bikes in the 90's.

[6money]

Ok thanks for the replies everyone!



Remember a 4 cyl bike has a 'fixed price' for it's service schedule and that is several hundreds. CC size has no bearing on cost, amount of cylinders do. Major services are around $5-600. Doesn't take much to work out how many of those may have never gotten performed.

How many km between overhauls should be expected? I've only ever owned XR's and they are "run forever with general maintenance" bikes, so I have no idea when to do major servicing.

[cods4]

I got a ZXR250 for my first bike and what everyone is saying is true. I got it for almost nothing and have spent about $500-700 on parts (and a few tools) to get the engine back to spec (cam chain, carb seal kit, valve shims, fluids etc) and i've had to do the front fork seals, strip the brakes and clean them/change the seals etc.

The bike still looks like a piece of shit and the rear shock is stuffed. But it does go well and sounds awesome and i got my restricted and my full license on it.

I wouldn't want to take it on a ride longer than 3-4 hours because it is so small and uncomfortable for me. I'm 6'1" and 82kg.

If I was going to do it again and I wasnt offered the ZXR for such a good deal I would probably go for a KTM Duke 390 or 200. My mate has a 200 and they are awesome for commuting and are heaps of fun in the twisties.

[6money]

Money spent too ... on certified rider training courses ... is money well spent.

Agreed, I've completed a skills course before and it was quite helpful.



As stated here, get a modern bike and learn how to ride it well. Yes the old 250s had 45hp. But they only have that if they are running right, which is not often. And they are tiny.

A well ridden GS500 will piss over a badly ridden CBR250. Concentrate on being a great rider, not having a great bike. Modern bike will let you ride over spending time trying to get it running.

But can't you have a great bike and learn to be a great rider? A newer bike will be more reliable, but will it help me gain more skills over an older one? I'm not a completely new rider, just new to sports bikes.



I got a ZXR250 for my first bike and what everyone is saying is true. I got it for almost nothing and have spent about $500-700 on parts (and a few tools) to get the engine back to spec (cam chain, carb seal kit, valve shims, fluids etc) and i've had to do the front fork seals, strip the brakes and clean them/change the seals etc.


Was it obvious there would be work to do by checking it over/test ride? I know there is always a possibility of issues forming after you buy a bike, but just wanna know how well maintained a bike is before I buy anything.

[nzspokes]

But can't you have a great bike and learn to be a great rider? A newer bike will be more reliable, but will it help me gain more skills over an older one? I'm not a completely new rider, just new to sports bikes.


Easier to learn on a bike that runs well over something you have to ride around faults on.

[cods4]

Was it obvious there would be work to do by checking it over/test ride? I know there is always a possibility of issues forming after you buy a bike, but just wanna know how well maintained a bike is before I buy anything.

I bought it from a friend who had it sitting in the garage for 3 years so I was expecting a fair bit of work. Based on my experience I would say look out for noisy top end (cam chain tensioner or maybe cam chain is simply too worn), hard to start/missing/power is not smooth (carbs need servicing), leaking fork seals (probably pretty common with old bikes that don't get much use).

One weird thing that mine was doing when I first got it was that it was impossible to start when hot, I had to let it cool down for 10-20 minutes before it would start again. I now think this was due to the valve clearances being too tight, but it is something you can try while you are out for a test ride.

Oh and don't expect much acceleration from these things until 6-7k revs and then peak seems to be around 9-12k and it drops off at 15k. I imagine the hondas and suzukis are the same.

[OddDuck]

If you want to learn bike mechanics then buy an old bike. Get used to that bike being in bits repeatedly and spending good riding weather sorting out yet another niggle. Alternately, pick a winter and rebuild the thing from the frame up, repainting, replacing all bearings, wiring loom, every seal, etc etc.

If you want to actually ride then make a call about an age limit and shop from there.

No matter what you do, stay away from reading loads of online reviews and fixating on something that you haven't yet seen or ridden in the real world.

Yes, mid 90's 250cc 4's would have been one hell of a lotta fun. Bikes never stopped improving. The current crop of 250 - 400 road sportsbikes are almost unbelievable bang for your buck compared to the crap that was around when I was in 250 hell.

After sampling the instant, effortless overtaking capability of the 900 Supersport (gear changes completely optional, and it's a baby by modern sportsbike standards) I could never go back.

[FJRider]

... So I'm assuming the reason they are so expensive is because they are so much more exciting than the Ninja? :shifty:

You assume wrong ... A good condition one ... with low km's is rare (and sought after) ... because most have been killed (along with their riders) by noobs with little riding ability ... and even less maintenance ability.

But an older model will require (continuous) work/money to keep in tune, rattles kept to the minimum, the suspension working as it should ... which wasn't great (compared to modern set-ups).

[Zedder]

You assume wrong ... A good condition one ... with low km's is rare (and sought after) ... because most have been killed (along with their riders) by noobs with little riding ability ... and even less maintenance ability.

But an older model will require (continuous) work/money to keep in tune, rattles kept to the minimum, the suspension working as it should ... which wasn't great (compared to modern set-ups).


My 1991 Kawasaki ZZR400, which I sold a couple of years ago, has just clicked over 105,000 (apparently certified original) kms according to the owner who I caught up with the other day. It was bought by me in going, registered and WoF condition for under $3000 and serviced by me mostly and as per schedule. It was great to ride and never let me down, although I had roadside assistance just in case.

This weekend, because I'm back in NZ for good, I'll be completing a deal for two of the same bikes, one registered and one with lapsed rego, but both going with one having 75,000 kms on it and the other 40,000 kms. That'll give me a Winter project although I'll be still riding my V-Strom which I really enjoy.

[6money]

Ok I ended up going against most peoples thoughts and bought a 1990 cbr400rr, the first nc29. Yea sure there were loads of ninja 250 and 300's going up on trade me everyday but I just couldn't shake the feeling of wanting a 90's race replica. I couldn't find any great 250's so decided to look into the 400 that had been sitting on my watchlist for a while, can't wait to take it for a ride once this snow goes away!