Almost killed by a Bus this morning [Archive]

bigdog

26th May 2017, 21:42

I just want to have a rant and let everybody know about an incident I had this morning.

At approximately 7:35 this morning in Northcote on the North Shore at the intersection of Raleigh Road and Lake Road, I was indicating to turn right to go around the round about on to Lake Road and proceeded to do so. As I was making the turn some complete and utter imbecile of a bus driver (driving a Ritchies bus) started to pull out right in front of me as I was making the turn. They were turning right to go down the other direction of Lake Road towards the Northcote shops. Not only did they pull out in front of me they didn't even break or attempt to break and as I passed the clown almost plowed right into me. It was only quick reactions on my part in which I sped up and did an emergency counter steer to dodge the bus that saved me. I swear I missed it by half a foot at most. A more inexperienced rider would have probably panicked and braked and got hit and probably run over.

I needed to go to work and to be honest was a little shocked so I just beeped and kept on going. I regret it now I should have turned around and got his details at the very least (or given him a bit of aggro), I would have definitely done so if I didn't need to be at work.

I think I will send Richies Bus company an email tomorrow. What do you guys think?

Have you had any similar experiences? Almost been murdered by a bus driver?

johcar

26th May 2017, 22:01

Ritchies bus drivers have long been known in both the cycling and motorcycling world to be the worst in the country. I was nearly taken out by one myself earlier this week in Fanshawe St...

Swoop

26th May 2017, 22:26

Absolutely, get in contact with the company by phone or email. If you have the location and tine they should be able to work out which bus/"driver" it was... IF they really want to.
Some of the "intelligence" of drivers is questionable. A cousin of mine is proof of this and she was driving for them...:facepalm:

Jeeper

26th May 2017, 22:30

On Symond Street in town, buses normally pull out of the stops first and then may indicate if the driver feels like it. Makes me want to not use bus lanes for that reason.

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jellywrestler

26th May 2017, 23:43

What do you guys think?

I think you spelleded brake wrong.

Berries

26th May 2017, 23:55

Have you had any similar experiences? Almost been murdered by a bus driver?
Murder would suggest he saw you and pulled out with the intent of running you over which I doubt. What you have here is a bus driver who failed to see you, or failed to look very hard. Nothing that unusual there.

I wouldn't bother with the email, if you don't deal with it at the time then forget it. The bus driver probably moved on about 7:36, and I don't mean on to the roundabout.

FJRider

27th May 2017, 08:26

A more inexperienced rider would have probably panicked and braked and got hit and probably run over.

So you didn't brake ... ???

A more experienced rider would not always expect to be given right of way ... even if he/she was entitled to it. (Known as the Cassina Syndrome) Roundabouts work on the principal of continuous flow ... so that makes it a more dangerous piece of roadway than other parts of a city road system.

Adding to that ... even many (so called) experienced riders/drivers do not know all the rules of roundabouts. Do you .. ???

Akzle

27th May 2017, 11:08

.

Adding to that ... even many (so called) experienced riders/drivers do not know all the rules of roundabouts. Do you .. ???

operate on the american principle: more and/or bigger tyres, or more and/or bigger occupants or more and/or bigger guns on the rack in the back window... give way

ellipsis

27th May 2017, 11:20

Moi

27th May 2017, 13:02

...this should be in the Friday Night Rants thread...my nieces cousin, my sisters niece was blown up in Manchester, she is full of shrapnel and burned and close to death...her 14 year old friend is dead...that's murder...

+1 Puts a silly incident on a roundabout into perspective...

To the OP... what will you do differently next time you approach any roundabout or intersection for that matter? You only have the "right-of-way" if the other driver "gives you the right-of-way"! Use this as a learning experience and add it to your repertoire of defensive riding/driving knowledge/skills.

iYRe

27th May 2017, 13:34

If there is a bus turning... or a truck or any other large vehicle which might NOT be able to make a corner in its own lane (happens all the time at the round about on the dominion rd extension), then one would either make sure one proceeds through the intersection in front of said vehicle, or wait patiently for 10 seconds and let it go ahead...

I'm no pro, but I have been riding in auckland traffic for 35 years... I rarely have problems with bus drivers... other motorcyclists and pedestrians, and people driving cars with "my other car is a motorbike" bumper stickers on the other hand..

Jeeper

27th May 2017, 13:48

I must add that wearing everything black on a black bike does not help with visibility, particularly on shorter days when it gets dark at commute time.

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iYRe

27th May 2017, 14:07

I must add that wearing everything black on a black bike does not help with visibility, particularly on shorter days when it gets dark at commute time.

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It makes almost no difference, they wont see you anyway.. in fact, studies overseas suggest that dressing like a cop or a hells angel are the best options.

FJRider

27th May 2017, 14:59

...this should be in the Friday Night Rants thread...my nieces cousin, my sisters niece was blown up in Manchester, she is full of shrapnel and burned and close to death...her 14 year old friend is dead...that's murder...

Considering the number of western nations (Great Briton included) are attacking Islamic State fighters ... they may see it as an act of war.

Jeeper

27th May 2017, 15:42

It makes almost no difference, they wont see you anyway.. in fact, studies overseas suggest that dressing like a cop or a hells angel are the best options.
Could you kindly site those overseas studies, I'm curious to read because my personal experience as a driver is completely different.

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pritch

27th May 2017, 16:07

Could you kindly site those overseas studies, I'm curious to read because my personal experience as a driver is completely different.

He is absolutely right. I read an account of one such experiment but it was years ago. You can do your own research.

Basically part of the experiment I read about involved drivers navigating an urban/suburban route then answering questions about the various potential "hazards" they had encountered. There were standardised hazards that could have been identified, eg a kid playing with a ball near the road. The responses to most of the hazards were decidedly patchy. The two hazards that almost every participant identified were the Hells Angel look alike and the bike cop.

The conclusion was that you are more likely to be noticed by other road users if they perceive you to be a threat. The different treatment I got from drivers when I was on my moped as opposed to when I'm on the bike would tend to confirm that. Apparently though there is no shortage of lemmings willing to drive in front of trucks, or even trains, so even looking like a cop may not help.

Moi

27th May 2017, 16:26

This is totally unscientific...

The other day getting the latest tag for the Auckland tag game (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/99296-Tag-o-rama-(Auckland)/page38?highlight=tag+rama) I parked the bike at an angle to the kerb and walked away from it. It was interesting to hear several cars coming from behind me slow down - change in engine note was quite noticeable. It could have been that the transmission had just shifted up, but it also had that sound of someone easing their foot off the accelerator...

I wonder what caused that?

Was it the white fully-fared bike?

Was it me with my back to the approaching traffic and holding a camera up?

Was it that I was wearing black leather pants and dark blue textile jacket with hiviz and silver helmet?

I have no idea. But it was interesting...

Jeeper

27th May 2017, 17:55

Great, so an assertion is made by someone and I'm asked to reasearch its validity on my own. This is such a wonderful and helpful forum. What if I just ride my bike like I stole it, that would get everyone's attention and I'll be super safe.....

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FJRider

27th May 2017, 17:55

Could you kindly site those overseas studies, I'm curious to read because my personal experience as a driver is completely different.

Unless you have experience cutting off a police car (or a Hell's Angel) when they have right of way (and it ended well) ... I suggest you try doing it. Let us know how you got on ...

But I think your "Personal Experience" in this regard ... is somewhat lacking ...

RDJ

27th May 2017, 17:57

The conclusion was that you are more likely to be noticed by other road users if they perceive you to be a threat.

Yes indeed. This has been proven (as far as it can be within the statistical limitations of studies) quite a number of times. Hi-Viz clothing and a shiny bike alters potential colliders' behavior much less than Evil Black Gear and an Evil Black Bike. So-called conspicuity is only useful in court after the fact, when the SMIDSY-BYWWF (Becos Ya Weren't Wearing Fluoro) defense is raised against us.

Ifsn8u

27th May 2017, 17:58

FJRider

27th May 2017, 17:59

This is totally unscientific...

Just a coincidence ... maybe .. :scratch:

Zedder

27th May 2017, 18:07

Jeeper

27th May 2017, 18:21

Pretty much!!:2thumbsup
Thanks. Time to unlearn everything and see what difference that makes.

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bigdog

27th May 2017, 18:38

Murder would suggest he saw you and pulled out with the intent of running you over which I doubt. What you have here is a bus driver who failed to see you, or failed to look very hard. Nothing that unusual there.

Well obviously I didn't mean murder in the literal sense. :rolleyes:

So you didn't brake ... ???

A more experienced rider would not always expect to be given right of way ... even if he/she was entitled to it. (Known as the Cassina Syndrome) Roundabouts work on the principal of continuous flow ... so that makes it a more dangerous piece of roadway than other parts of a city road system.

Adding to that ... even many (so called) experienced riders/drivers do not know all the rules of roundabouts. Do you .. ???

Perhaps I wasn't so clear in my Friday evening rant. The bus was stopped at the intersection as I was making the turn, I was keeping an eye on it before going around a roundabout. When the bus pulled out I was already in its path. So no, I didn't brake... is that what you would of done? They would have ran me and my bike over for sure. Obviously if it was the case that the driver was just pulling out before I was in its path I would have braked for sure!

And yes, I am quite confident I know all the rules when it comes to roundabouts and I would certainly expect someone who drives other people for a living to know the rules as well. Is that too much to ask?

Swoop

27th May 2017, 18:46

I must add that wearing everything black on a black bike does not help with visibility...

Wrong.

10chars

jasonu

27th May 2017, 18:48

ARA bus drivers were always cunts. Especially the fat boonger ones.

Moi

27th May 2017, 18:58

Perhaps I wasn't so clear in my Friday evening rant.

The bus was stopped at the intersection as I was making the turn, I was keeping an eye on it before going around a roundabout. When the bus pulled out I was already in its path.

So no, I didn't brake... is that what you would of done? They would have ran me and my bike over for sure. Obviously if it was the case that the driver was just pulling out before I was in its path I would have braked for sure!

And yes, I am quite confident I know all the rules when it comes to roundabouts and I would certainly expect someone who drives other people for a living to know the rules as well. Is that too much to ask?

That seems to be the norm for many drivers in Auckland...

I'd agree that it can be a little unnerving at times and I'm sure there are a few who misjudge their "pulling away from the stop" and give themselves and others a real sphincter clinching moment.

But quite truthfully, I doubt it will get any better... just too many who think they are "entitled" [both on two-wheels and in four-wheels], too many in too much of a hurry, not enough enforcement of basic driving, let alone actually teaching proper driving...

On two-wheels we need to be far more aware of our surrounds, be a more defensive rider and just chill out at times... I'm sure karma will get some of those drivers.

Moi

27th May 2017, 18:59

ARA bus drivers were always cunts. Especially the fat boonger ones.

Haven't seen an ARA bus in quite a few years...

YellowDog

27th May 2017, 19:27

Well obviously I didn't mean murder in the literal sense. :rolleyes:

Perhaps I wasn't so clear in my Friday evening rant. The bus was stopped at the intersection as I was making the turn, I was keeping an eye on it before going around a roundabout. When the bus pulled out I was already in its path. So no, I didn't brake... is that what you would of done? They would have ran me and my bike over for sure. Obviously if it was the case that the driver was just pulling out before I was in its path I would have braked for sure!

And yes, I am quite confident I know all the rules when it comes to roundabouts and I would certainly expect someone who drives other people for a living to know the rules as well. Is that too much to ask?

So you were indicating correctly then :yes:

Perhaps the bus driver felt he timed it just right and the fact he missed you by around 150mm, he felt that there are 149 more reasons as to why he didn't do anything wrong and you may just be a but jumpy with your over reaction :niceone:

Akzle

27th May 2017, 19:54

FJRider

27th May 2017, 20:40

Perhaps I wasn't so clear in my Friday evening rant ...

Logic might suggest ... if there was no need/pressure to brake ... there was no need to rant ... :bleh:

In other words ... just your average day in Auckland traffic ... :bleh:

GazzaH

27th May 2017, 21:13

It was a learning opportunity, one of many for any sufficiently alert and cautious rider/driver. I have vivid memories of scary incidents I survived going back to when I used to cycle to school, a loooooong time ago - every one of em taught me something, if only, on occasions, "I'm a lucky bugger".

caspernz

27th May 2017, 21:15

Logic might suggest ... if there was no need/pressure to brake ... there was no need to rant ... :bleh:

In other words ... just your average day in Auckland traffic ... :bleh:

Funny you say this. Recently I've been spending a bit of time driver training in Auckland traffic with a chap who resides in the calm of rural Waikato. His somewhat frantic responses to the cut and thrust of off-peak motorway traffic were bemusing. Then at times he'd be watching me pilot the truck and couldn't work out why I calmly kept a decent gap and made very few brake applications. Maybe he needs a Go-Pro to record all the near misses he can easily avoid...

Luckylegs

28th May 2017, 00:24

ARA bus drivers were always cunts. Especially the fat boonger ones.

D'ya blame them given those god awful green uniforms. Now those IRA bus drivers......

awayatc

28th May 2017, 12:49

everything that can go wrong.......
will go wrong....

So I drive/ ride accordingly, and very rarely get "caught out" by idiots.
More often then not many of the things that could go wrong don't go wrong, restoring my faith in humanity , and make me far less annoyed when somebody does fuck up.

I get at times a bit annoyed when I see somebody deliberately being a dick, but overall I shrug it off, and hope others will react likewise when I "fuck up" myself......

Old Steve

28th May 2017, 13:35

I don't have any trouble with buses on Onewa Rd. I think all the drivers for Birkenhead Transport are excellent, they indicate before pulling out and they double hazard flash when you let them pull out into the traffic ahead of you.

Yes I used to see a lot of emergency braking when riding a white Honda ST1100, black jacket and pants with a fluoro yellow hi-viz and white helmet in Central Queensland, I could almost bet on cars on side streets having an nose dive slow down or stop when they saw me. But I was always aware that they just might not see me, so didn't rely on the Police look alike factor.

Though I like the Birkenhead Transport Bus drivers, I'm not so happy about taxis - it's a taxi that got me on my way to work one morning.

LinkNZ

28th May 2017, 14:13

Started a similar thread on this a few months ago.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/182166-Buses-running-red-lights

Upper/Queen St & K Road intersection has to be one of the worst. Being paid minimum wage is not an excuse to run a red light and endanger passengers, other motorists or pedestrians.

jasonu

28th May 2017, 14:55

Haven't seen an ARA bus in quite a few years...

From what I have read on here they have been replaced with another bunch of equally big cunts.

Moi

28th May 2017, 18:07

From what I have read on here they have been replaced with another bunch of equally big cunts.

Yeah, you're not wrong...

http://ourauckland.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/media/11332/more-bus-and-train-services-ahead-of-march-madness.jpg

caseye

28th May 2017, 20:15

...this should be in the Friday Night Rants thread...my nieces cousin, my sisters niece was blown up in Manchester, she is full of shrapnel and burned and close to death...her 14 year old friend is dead...that's murder...

Hoping she comes home asap and is helped to come back from a most terrifying experience, thoughts and condolences re her friend. Makes a MOCKERY of such minor things as our OP's experence this morning.

swbarnett

28th May 2017, 21:07

Could you kindly site those overseas studies, I'm curious to read because my personal experience as a driver is completely different.
Likely because you actually have a good situational awareness. To drivers that don't it matters not because they're not looking in the first place.

I wear all black on a nearly all black bike (grey scoop). My observation is that most drivers do see me (maybe they hear my Yoshi first). And those that don't I'm ready for.

iYRe

30th May 2017, 14:13

Could you kindly site those overseas studies, I'm curious to read because my personal experience as a driver is completely different.

As pointed out, it is possible that you are one of the exceptional drivers. There are actually quite a few studies to be found online... Just google it

Even trying to be aware, and super careful and observant I have occasionally pulled out on a bike or a cycle. I feel like shit for ages afterwards too. But you know, you have 3 screaming kids and your wife bitching at you all at the same time and even the best driver might be distracted just at the wrong moment.

Some things I have learned from my years (motorbiking, cars, and cycling) in the CBD:
1. People cant hear your loud exhaust. Back in the day in their Mk3 Cortina, yeah, but in a modern japanese/euro with sound proofing and your ipod blasting your your mobile PA... no way. Even in my budget honda I am lucky to hear a harley with straight pipes after it has gone past.

2. Bright lights and fluro help with about 20% of drivers. About 79% of the rest will never see you, so you have to see them. Besides that, half the frickin people in auckland wear fluro so it doesnt stand out any more, and lights, unless they are blinding everyone are no good unless the person registers what it is that they are seeing.. and they dont.

3. A loud horn is a god send.

4. If you learn to use your senses, and learn to look for hazards, to anticipate, you will mitigate most problems.

5. Dont ride passively. I see people every day meandering along getting pushed around by cars, squeezed out of lanes and so forth. You cant do that. You have to put yourself into safe positions on the road, whether it is at the lights or on the motorway. Letting the 4 wheeled vehicles dictate to you how much room and where you can ride on the road is a death sentence. Trust me, I have had, and seen friends die (and watched many near misses) because of this