View Full Version : Go Pros create unsafe riders
rastuscat
27th May 2017, 17:10
Had a guy on a course today wearing his Go Pro on his helmet.
He tells me he has been cut off 3 times this week, and he's sick of it, so he's got a Go Pro. Like, that'll make a difference.
Out on the course today a guy U-turned across our path. Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Scubbo
27th May 2017, 17:14
true story --- makes people worry if its filming and whether the lense is clean / whether the shot is good / is the battery working / memcard not fucked --- rahhdy rahh... better off just enjoying the ride ;o
razza11
27th May 2017, 17:21
Had a guy on a course today wearing his Go Pro on his helmet.
He tells me he has been cut off 3 times this week, and he's sick of it, so he's got a Go Pro. Like, that'll make a difference.
Out on the course today a guy U-turned across our path. Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Maybe he has been watching too many similar posts on YouTube where those riders exhibit the same arrogant behaviour. The GoPro seems to make some people think they have suddenly become invincible and VIPs.
In many cases they too could have easily avoided the near miss without the ranting. Guess some people just feel better about themselves after abusing others while forgetting they also make mistakes that upset or annoy others.
Perhaps this rider needs to do their basic course again.
Sent from my ZTE R84 using Tapatalk
Scuba_Steve
27th May 2017, 17:33
Had a guy on a course today wearing his Go Pro on his helmet.
He tells me he has been cut off 3 times this week, and he's sick of it, so he's got a Go Pro. Like, that'll make a difference.
Out on the course today a guy U-turned across our path. Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Na, I'd say he was always like that just now can vid it & present it to people in a way that shows "see im the victim"
jafagsx250
27th May 2017, 17:40
It's useful for insurance if you're in the right but I think a lot of people want to be the next big YouTube star so do things they normally wouldn't do to make their channel interesting.
Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk
tigertim20
27th May 2017, 17:49
I think youre wrong for several reasons.
One being that one example doesn't imply a rule.
another being cause and effect - perhaps those who already ride poorly are more likely to use them, rather than their presence affecting behaviour? I wonder that because I seldom see a youtube video of someone riding completely within the law, its usually 'spirited' riding.
Had a guy on a course today wearing his Go Pro on his helmet.
He tells me he has been cut off 3 times this week, and he's sick of it, so he's got a Go Pro. Like, that'll make a difference.
Out on the course today a guy U-turned across our path. Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Yes. Yes you are.
Had a guy on a course today wearing his Go Pro on his helmet.
He tells me he has been cut off 3 times this week, and he's sick of it, so he's got a Go Pro. Like, that'll make a difference.
Out on the course today a guy U-turned across our path. Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Did you discuss this with him?
If you did, what was his reaction?
Zedder
27th May 2017, 18:11
perhaps those who already ride poorly are more likely to use them, rather than their presence affecting behaviour?
The dog bowler would be a prime candidate for using a GoPro then.
rastuscat
27th May 2017, 18:13
Rastus would know for sure but I think the police can prosecute when given GoPro evidence and its possibly happened when tourist drivers are filmed crossing the centre line. If the police do prosecute on Go Pro evidence maybe it depends on the sort of offense filmed?
The accident rate could actually come down if the police offered a percentage of the fine to the Go Pro owner as it would be an incentive for more people to get them and earn some money for their effort. Just because one Go Pro owner likes to try and entrap people into nearly hitting them it would not be the case for all Go Pro owners.
Sounds like the Genesis of another revenue collecting argument.
FJRider
27th May 2017, 18:17
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Not that long ago ... a guy started a Facebook page to show errant car drivers filmed doing stupid things around motorcycles. It ended up showing more of his own errors of judgement ... that were just as serious than those he was trying to film.
I believe the page was shut down.
Having said that ... people showing their dash-cam footage on their own FB page is very popular at the moment ...
FJRider
27th May 2017, 18:30
Sounds like the Genesis of another revenue collecting argument.
Look on the bright side ... as everybody would be out on the roads filming each other doing silly shit. The huge reduction in Patrol cars needed on the streets and highways could save millions of dollars. The Police budget might be spent on catching criminals. There would be little booths outside every Police station ... where you could hand in/download your film(s) ...
What could possibly go wrong ... ??? :innocent:
Akzle
27th May 2017, 18:40
correllation and causation my dear rast-arse.
fuckwits buy gopros.
fuckwits are fuckwits all day long.
AllanB
27th May 2017, 18:42
Dick.
Fucking go-pros.
I hate them.
Who watches your shit videos anyway? Do you invite friends over to bore?
However
I predict t he EU will pass a LAW stating all new cars must be fitted with them, have a huge hard drive capacity to record shit loads of video and associated vehicle speed. And it must be available on request by the police.
Watch this space.
rastuscat
27th May 2017, 18:57
correllation and causation my dear rast-arse.
fuckwits buy gopros.
fuckwits are fuckwits all day long.
Chur Azkill.
Voltaire
27th May 2017, 19:15
The police started it with speed....er safety cameras, and who can forget the unmissable Highway Cops show.
nzspokes
27th May 2017, 20:02
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Yes a dick. GoPros just make more SJWs.
Avoid, get on with your life.
nzspokes
27th May 2017, 20:24
I challenge any decent rider to watch this and not facepalm. :facepalm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIxmADu81E4
caspernz
27th May 2017, 20:39
I challenge any decent rider to watch this and not facepalm. :facepalm:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIxmADu81E4
Lots of narcissists with anger management issues is all I saw...
But yes RC, there seems to be a bit of a trend with Go-Pros if the YouTube footage is any indication. Haven't seen much in the way of law abiding riding with any finesse.
FJRider
27th May 2017, 20:53
However
I predict t he EU will pass a LAW stating all new cars must be fitted with them, have a huge hard drive capacity to record shit loads of video and associated vehicle speed. And it must be available on request by the police.
Watch this space.
More likely ... GPS units that can be accessed from Police HQ. As per most Company vehicles are ... to their own company HQ's now.
A *555 call mentioning your license plate ... and your recent "History" gets reviewed ...
caspernz
27th May 2017, 20:59
More likely ... GPS units that can be accessed from Police HQ. As per most Company vehicles are ... to their own company HQ's now.
A *555 call mentioning your license plate ... and your recent "History" gets reviewed ...
High tech stuff can be fooled by a piece of tinfoil over the aerial, depending on how it works. Firm I was working at some ago had a weird spell of "intermittent outages" caused by the tinfoil and duct tape remedy... Nowadays not as easy to fool the gear, but with bit of know how can still be achieved.
husaberg
27th May 2017, 21:08
Chur Azkill.
You just know he has like 8 generic versions of them mounted on his Mitzi Sigma
The guy would be a cretin even if he ddn't have a Go pro (also alpplies to azskissel)
GazzaH
27th May 2017, 21:29
I guess the police might be able to demand access to dashcam footage from a driver suspected of doing something wrong ... but could anyone do the same? If some twonk with a dash cam hits me or causes me to crash, or just happens to be filming the scene when someone else does the same, do I have any legal basis to demand that evidence?
rastuscat
28th May 2017, 06:42
Just an observation.
When I was in a blue suit lots of folk wanted to give me 30 seconds of footage showing someone doing something stupid.
Nobody wanted to hand over the rest of the footage, for fear of showing their own riding.
husaberg
28th May 2017, 09:45
Just an observation.
When I was in a blue suit lots of folk wanted to give me 30 seconds of footage showing someone doing something stupid.
Nobody wanted to hand over the rest of the footage, for fear of showing their own riding.
Thats likely because they were to stupid to download and edit the rest out.
Thats likely because they were to stupid to download and edit the rest out.
Or get charged with tampering with evidence.
pritch
28th May 2017, 11:19
It's not just GoPros. Some trackdays ban any cameras presumably because experience suggests guys try just that little bit harder when they see their mate at the corner with a camera. Oops!
swbarnett
28th May 2017, 11:21
Na, I'd say he was always like that just now can vid it & present it to people in a way that shows "see im the victim"
Agreed. A bit like cell phones. The device is not the problem, just the tool of the idiot or an excuse for inattention.
husaberg
28th May 2017, 11:32
Or get charged with tampering with evidence.
Nah as long as it includes all the relevent footage of the lead up and aftermath its fine, There is no obligation for an individual to incriminate themselves.
If the officer formally requests the whole footage as a result thats another story.
R650R
28th May 2017, 11:42
Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Yeah common theme, but like others here have said it all comes down to the individual user. Just like cellphones and fireworks there are people who can use them safely and correctly and others who just won't.
I do t even mount my GoPro till I'm at an interesting scenic area or challenging adventure terrain I want to film. As I don't want to be mistaken fir the social justice road warrior described above.
Mind you though, how different is it to police ten seven or motorway patrol tv shows. There we often see cops following unsafe driver for extra distance so the tv show gets good footage when the driver should be stopped as soon as practical.
Maybe if cops started prosecuting dashcammers for careless driving in instances where they don't respond quick enough to hazards.... And yeah as for the complete footage if I was ever subject of someone's dashcam my lawyer would be applying for all their records to be seized and presented as evidence.
Rastus OP seems oblivious to how police recording who they go after does visibly tempt them to push the envelope. Proof: your TV nightly.
Akzle
28th May 2017, 13:09
I ... post ...on here. most ...find it boring as I am [ a massive douche sack that doesn't know shit and is immune to learning]
fify .
nzspokes
28th May 2017, 14:03
I should post a video of my riding on here sometime. The only fault that you would find with it though is I dont take specific riding school taught lines. Other than that most would find it boring as I am not doing any "pressure to keep up" sort of overtaking.
Have you got it in Super 8 video?
nzspokes
28th May 2017, 14:04
There is a guy on FB who says on his FB page when he will be out taking photos on the hill over to Akaroa and he aways manages to snap a few Rossi wannabes.
Has he got photo's of you?
FJRider
28th May 2017, 19:21
No I dont ride over there much and it would be safer to pick a day when there are no wannabe Rossis wanting to show off for the camera.
Don't worry ... you probably couldn't keep up anyway ... :blank:
FJRider
28th May 2017, 19:39
I should post a video of my riding on here sometime.
He's out of that line of work now ... and he just concentrates on people that pay him to stop their stupid riding ... but a vid of your stupid riding would give us all a laugh though ...
The only fault that you would find with it though is I dont take specific riding school taught lines.
Some of us can count higher than that. Don't judge everybody by your own skill level ...
Other than that most would find it boring as I am not doing any "pressure to keep up" sort of overtaking.
If you could keep upright for your entire ride ... it would probably be a first. There's enough of those vids on Youtube already ...
mossy1200
28th May 2017, 20:47
I have an opinion.
It involves filming people and increasing hatred of motorcyclists by the general public. We all know how cyclists with cams and attitudes tend to give all cyclists a bad name.
Last thing we need is an increase in bike hating people on the road. Just saying.
swbarnett
28th May 2017, 20:56
I should post a video of my riding on here sometime. The only fault that you would find with it though is I dont take specific riding school taught lines. Other than that most would find it boring as I am not doing any "pressure to keep up" sort of overtaking.
Therein lies the first sign of the rampant know-it-all. If you really think your riding is so free of what you call fault please take an IAM assessment or the like and post the results. Maybe then you'll realise you don't know as much as you think you do.
There is a guy on FB who says on his FB page when he will be out taking photos on the hill over to Akaroa and he aways manages to snap a few Rossi wannabes.
Wow that guy sounds like a legend!
caspernz
28th May 2017, 21:21
I have an opinion.
It involves filming people and increasing hatred of motorcyclists by the general public. We all know how cyclists with cams and attitudes tend to give all cyclists a bad name.
Last thing we need is an increase in bike hating people on the road. Just saying.
Absolutely right. Our cause is already marginalized by the behavior of a small part of the biking fraternity, then to make it worse by the YouTube crybabies who go out to antagonize Joe Public...oh boy.
Therein lies the first sign of the rampant know-it-all. If you really think your riding is so free of what you call fault please take an IAM assessment or the like and post the results. Maybe then you'll realise you don't know as much as you think you do.
Well Mr Barnett, I admire your ongoing positive outlook on this topic. I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment, for none of us know what we don't know. It takes an external source to enlighten us. I'll be upfront and admit that until ten or so years ago, I never gave motorcycle training for myself much thought. But once I got going, I quickly realized I had an awful lot to learn. Just a shame Cassina isn't willing to go down the route you've suggested, for you're not the first to make that suggestion... :clap:
nzspokes
28th May 2017, 22:48
I just said I dont take riding school lines so dont know as much as those who do according to you. It does not bother me either. I will try and post it some time but am not up with posting videos technically so my post may or may not appear.
If you had a proper assessment then the assessor could take the vid and post it.
nzspokes
28th May 2017, 23:30
I am not sure if you read my comment about not wanting to go to a riding school but the reason is that it would not have prevented me from having the accidents except for the very first one where i applied incorrect braking on a wet road when I was a beginner. In all the other accidents
I was in things happened too quick to even brake or swerve just like what happened to the motorcycle racer that died as he did not have time to brake or swerve either. I was attacked on here when I gave the example of his accident as having no time to brake or swerve either, to try and prove my point that shit happening accidents can happen to anyone.
Why not just tell the truth that you are too scared to, or this is a troll account.
Voltaire
29th May 2017, 06:59
I should post a video of my riding on here sometime. The only fault that you would find with it though is I dont take specific riding school taught lines. Other than that most would find it boring as I am not doing any "pressure to keep up" sort of overtaking.
Thanks for sending me you most recent video, pretty good.
That Rossi chap would be hard pressed to keep up eh wot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOzkdgiaiYM
Scubbo
29th May 2017, 07:17
Thanks for sending me you most recent video, pretty good.
That Rossi chap would be hard pressed to keep up eh wot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOzkdgiaiYM
man we've come a long way, a scooter from china could go up a hill like that now!
Banditbandit
30th May 2017, 13:33
Had a guy on a course today wearing his Go Pro on his helmet.
He tells me he has been cut off 3 times this week, and he's sick of it, so he's got a Go Pro. Like, that'll make a difference.
Out on the course today a guy U-turned across our path. Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
Yeah .. they think that being right makes them bullet-proof ... but insisting on being right can lead to getting killed!
rastuscat
30th May 2017, 19:21
Yeah .. they think that being right makes them bullet-proof ... but insisting on being right can lead to getting killed!
Remarkably there are a lot of dead motorcyclists who were in the right.
KawasakiKid
30th May 2017, 19:57
Remarkably there are a lot of dead motorcyclists who were in the right.
Exactly, I always ride so I can ride another day. Doesn't mean I can't have some fun, but I ride to survive.......every time.
rastuscat
19th June 2017, 18:24
Okay, post script to my original post.
The guy who had the Go Pro arrived for his CBTA 6R test wearing the camera. Before we started I asked him how's it all going, and he told me he had lots of footage of near misses.
I've been coaching people to ride in a manner to avoid near misses. It's actually hard to listen to someone who would rather have footage of near misses than have no near misses to bitch about.
He passed his 6R. He told me it was the first hour of riding he's done without a near miss.
Leaves me worrying for his future.
caspernz
19th June 2017, 18:47
Okay, post script to my original post.
The guy who had the Go Pro arrived for his CBTA 6R test wearing the camera. Before we started I asked him how's it all going, and he told me he had lots of footage of near misses.
I've been coaching people to ride in a manner to avoid near misses. It's actually hard to listen to someone who would rather have footage of near misses than have no near misses to bitch about.
He passed his 6R. He told me it was the first hour of riding he's done without a near miss.
Leaves me worrying for his future.
So he's improving then? An hour without a near miss...
Failing that, as long as he can edit his footage from the hospital bed, all is well :brick:
Okay, post script to my original post.
The guy who had the Go Pro arrived for his CBTA 6R test wearing the camera. Before we started I asked him how's it all going, and he told me he had lots of footage of near misses.
I've been coaching people to ride in a manner to avoid near misses. It's actually hard to listen to someone who would rather have footage of near misses than have no near misses to bitch about.
He passed his 6R. He told me it was the first hour of riding he's done without a near miss.
Leaves me worrying for his future.
OK.
This leaves me worrying about OUR future
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11868256
russd7
19th June 2017, 20:27
OK.
This leaves me worrying about OUR future
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11868256
ahhh i love it, it ended when he surrendered peacefully, why not say it like it was, he surrendered when he knew he had no other choice. as much as i believe that we need checks and balances i do not believe that it does anybody any good to have someone who wasn't there blaming those that were there for what happened. its like the crap that it is the cops fault when someone doing a runner crashes, our courts have become very disjointed from society and that includes the the coroners court.
justinjxzhang
19th June 2017, 20:46
Okay, post script to my original post.
The guy who had the Go Pro arrived for his CBTA 6R test wearing the camera. Before we started I asked him how's it all going, and he told me he had lots of footage of near misses.
I've been coaching people to ride in a manner to avoid near misses. It's actually hard to listen to someone who would rather have footage of near misses than have no near misses to bitch about.
He passed his 6R. He told me it was the first hour of riding he's done without a near miss.
Leaves me worrying for his future.
I think I may have been on the initial course with you - I remember him wanting to follow guy that passed him even after we'd turned off. I'd hoped he'd cooled down a bit after it but doesn't sound like it.
As much as i believe that we need checks and balances i do not believe that it does anybody any good to have someone who wasn't there blaming those that were there for what happened.
The point I was trying to make, obviously not clearly enough, is that the police are supposed to be so much better trained than us law-abiding firearms-licensed yokels. But they are convincingly not...
See also https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/08/police-like-to-shoot-their-roof/
Tongue-bathing incompetent police does not help us civilians. Arthur Allan Thomas' wrongful conviction was a warning not an instruction manual.
nzspokes
19th June 2017, 21:34
ahhh i love it, it ended when he surrendered peacefully, why not say it like it was, he surrendered when he knew he had no other choice. as much as i believe that we need checks and balances i do not believe that it does anybody any good to have someone who wasn't there blaming those that were there for what happened. its like the crap that it is the cops fault when someone doing a runner crashes, our courts have become very disjointed from society and that includes the the coroners court.
They had tanks. Problem solved.
Akzle
19th June 2017, 21:44
OK.
This leaves me worrying about OUR future
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11868256
what exactly concerns you?
what SHOULD concern you is that more shots were fired in this soirée than is in their annual training budget.
also, probably, that none of them hit target.
but the doggies get booties, so SPCA can sit down to a congratulatory circle jerk
Akzle
19th June 2017, 21:50
whether the fault lies with his riding... or the fault of other motorists not seeing him or giving way.
you're maybe too stupid to realise they're the same thing maybe.
Akzle
19th June 2017, 21:54
Okay, post script to my original post.
The guy who had the Go Pro arrived for his CBTA 6R test wearing the camera. Before we started I asked him how's it all going, and he told me he had lots of footage of near misses.
I've been coaching people to ride in a manner to avoid near misses. It's actually hard to listen to someone who would rather have footage of near misses than have no near misses to bitch about.
He passed his 6R. He told me it was the first hour of riding he's done without a near miss.
Leaves me worrying for his future.
so how do you feel now... even though you know he's a muppet, he ticked the boxes on the day and must be granted 6R...
you should tots vote ax.
Akzle
19th June 2017, 22:05
The point I was trying to make, obviously not clearly enough, is that the police are supposed to be so much better trained than us law-abiding firearms-licensed yokels. But they are convincingly not...
See also https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/06/08/police-like-to-shoot-their-roof/
Tongue-bathing incompetent police does not help us civilians. Arthur Allan Thomas' wrongful conviction was a warning not an instruction manual.
having shot at with crown policy enforcement agents, i am happy to confirm they're mostly shit.
i have been shouted down more than once for expressing this opinion, which, like c*ssina, i take as proof of my rightness.
ardmore was closed a'cos of them.
the joe blow pistolero has to shoot more rounds in a weekend (six weekends a year iirc) than the bob do all year.
license? pah! what could possibly go wrong giving an entitled gang of bullies glocks? (and hollow points... cos geneva and shit)
rastuscat
20th June 2017, 08:39
so how do you feel now... even though you know he's a muppet, he ticked the boxes on the day and must be granted 6R...
you should tots vote ax.
It's the system we have. If someone rides to the standard while being tested they pass.
I can't fail someone for what they did yesterday or what they might do tomorrow.
Bass
20th June 2017, 10:04
It's the system we have. If someone rides to the standard while being tested they pass.
I can't fail someone for what they did yesterday or what they might do tomorrow.
True and pretty much what Ax stated.
What he asked was how you (as someone with a sense of responsibility and a desire to improve things), feel about that.
T.W.R
20th June 2017, 11:01
It's the discretionary axe & where to use it.
Surely in that sort of situation it's an indication that the pupil needs some further precautionary advice and an opportunity for more direct tutoring.
The system is the system can't change that in a hurry but it's doesn't mean that each step has to be taken in the shortest time possible and the early steps are where it's best to iron out the kinks.
rastuscat
20th June 2017, 11:19
It's the discretionary axe & where to use it.
Surely in that sort of situation it's an indication that the pupil needs some further precautionary advice and an opportunity for more direct tutoring..
Worry not. The best advice I gave him is to ride in a manner that causes your footage to be incident free.
I almost feel as if cameras make things worse.
T.W.R
20th June 2017, 11:41
Worry not. The best advice I gave him is to ride in a manner that causes your footage to be incident free.
I almost feel as if cameras make things worse.
Doesn't worry me, advice & education are upto the individual to take on board
In some situations the camera could be used to advantage as an educational tool
MVnut
20th June 2017, 13:40
It's the discretionary axe & where to use it.
Surely in that sort of situation it's an indication that the pupil needs some further precautionary advice and an opportunity for more direct tutoring.
The system is the system can't change that in a hurry but it's doesn't mean that each step has to be taken in the shortest time possible and the early steps are where it's best to iron out the kinks.
I presume you are in no way suggesting Rastus should have failed that applicant. Having said that a fairly good percentage of riders I've seen (particularly in the last 15 years or so) should stay away from 2 wheels.....they simply have no fucking idea about courtesy or self preservation, 2 important aspects of riding. Skill level can be raised so ongoing training is good, whether you train yourself or get help. Just do it right please. Same ideas apply to those guys who 'require' their girlfriends to ride. Why why why the fuck would you do that? If someone wants to learn that's great, don't push anyone into it. I love bikes as much as anyone and have never asked anyone if I could teach them to ride....but I have taught many that asked me. That is the difference. And Go Pros....good and bad depends how and why . I like the idea but in practice too many fuckwits just want to film shit they should be avoiding anyway. Am I slow on the road?? Only I know the answer....I prefer to think I am safe
T.W.R
20th June 2017, 15:55
I presume you are in no way suggesting Rastus should have failed that applicant. Having said that a fairly good percentage of riders I've seen (particularly in the last 15 years or so) should stay away from 2 wheels.....they simply have no fucking idea about courtesy or self preservation, 2 important aspects of riding. Skill level can be raised so ongoing training is good, whether you train yourself or get help. Just do it right please. Same ideas apply to those guys who 'require' their girlfriends to ride. Why why why the fuck would you do that? If someone wants to learn that's great, don't push anyone into it. I love bikes as much as anyone and have never asked anyone if I could teach them to ride....but I have taught many that asked me. That is the difference. And Go Pros....good and bad depends how and why . I like the idea but in practice too many fuckwits just want to film shit they should be avoiding anyway. Am I slow on the road?? Only I know the answer....I prefer to think I am safe
Presumption is the mother of all fuck ups.....the suggestion was if something is seen that could be improved strike while the iron is hot...it's easy to adjust something early rather than try and change an ingrained bad habit. It's a training school, the pupils are there to learn and the opportunity arises to give a little extra that may make the difference why not grab it and run with it, if even just one gets the message i't got to be worthwhile.
MVnut
20th June 2017, 18:39
Presumption is the mother of all fuck ups.....the suggestion was if something is seen that could be improved strike while the iron is hot...it's easy to adjust something early rather than try and change an ingrained bad habit. It's a training school, the pupils are there to learn and the opportunity arises to give a little extra that may make the difference why not grab it and run with it, if even just one gets the message i't got to be worthwhile.
It was not the training school that I was talking about, but the 6R which he passed. It is a test, simple. Not the place for coaching or training...that comes before, and after.
Akzle
20th June 2017, 22:01
Your too stupid to realize the actions of others are less likely to be controllable than that of the riders own riding.
your*
no-one can control another's actions. and it's rude to try.
I'm just sick of people addicted to dumb shit technology. People who can't walk more than 3 paces on a footpath unless they are holding a bloody phone in front of their face the whole time. Probably the same dicks that can't cycle or ride a motorcycle unless they have a GoPro mounted in front of their face. People who can't sit with friends or workmates and actually talk to each other, look at each other when speaking, instead of staring like a moron into a bloody piece of plastic.
Open your eyes, just enjoy the world around you and stop filming every boring piece of shit that is you life being wasted.
Alexander Graham Bell would probably regret what he started if he saw the ill-mannered morons we have become.
I backpacked around the globe in my twenties. Every famous site all the people were soaking up the beauty, admiring the scenery and enjoying the moment. Look at travel pics now and all you see are dozens of unseen faces hidden behind a fucking mobile phone. Five minutes later those wankers can't recall what that place was?
T.W.R
21st June 2017, 10:43
It was not the training school that I was talking about, but the 6R which he passed. It is a test, simple. Not the place for coaching or training...that comes before, and after.
you should read it again :msn-wink: the pupil didn't have an incident whilst doing the test but mentioned incidents prior to, same with the original post (which was stated as on arrival at the course)
Now I'm sure the 6R is still a test of competency too not a closed book written exam and its an educational facility under the umbrella of teaching and educating novice riders and preparing them the best way possible to survive & prosper out on the road :weird:
So that teaching and learning doesn't just stop like flicking a switch on or off and it isn't just a bloody production line pumping them out the door either.
Coaching and training never stop nor does learning though some pompous big heads would like to think so :niceone:
you should read it again :msn-wink: the pupil didn't have an incident whilst doing the test but mentioned incidents prior to, same with the original post (which was stated as on arrival at the course)
Now I'm sure the 6R is still a test of competency too not a closed book written exam and its an educational facility under the umbrella of teaching and educating novice riders and preparing them the best way possible to survive & prosper out on the road :weird:
So that teaching and learning doesn't just stop like flicking a switch on or off and it isn't just a bloody production line pumping them out the door either.
Coaching and training never stop nor does learning though some pompous big heads would like to think so :niceone:
I don't disagree with what you are saying however, if I understand correctly, the 6R test is a "pass/fail" assessment. Pass/fail assessments are common within education and learning situations as they are relatively easy to administer - you either pass or fail each component and there will be a point at which you pass or fail depending on how many components you pass or fail. And the assessment/test is seen to stand alone from any prior instruction or possible follow-up instruction.
But, the pass/fail method has a major downfall and that is that it is a "snap shot" of performance on a particular day at a particular time. There can be no influence from either prior experience of the candidate or likely performance after the event. This means that if Dick turns up for his 6R test and is a total dick on the road on the way there but, Dick performs the assessment tasks faultlessly under test conditions then the assessor has no valid reason to fail Dick.
Pass/fail assessment is a form of summative assessment - sums up learning in a one shot assessment... remember School Certificate before you could pass some and not some.
A more appropriate form of assessment, in my opinion, would be a formative/ipsative assessment where the candidate is assessed over a number of assessments of a period of time with suitable feedback/feedforward and that the assessor is looking for improvement in both areas identified for improvement and areas which have already shown skill or achievement. However, that would require a huge rethink about how NZ teaches and tests people's ability to either ride or drive.
rastuscat
21st June 2017, 16:56
It's always been a challenge to me. We are motorcycle instructors, and also assessors.
When we are doing an assessment we are not allowed to do what's called prompting. Like, in test, we can't do coaching. It's a test.
But outside of a test, we always do coaching, advising etc.
When I'm doing an assessment, especially with a person I have coached, and they do something dumb, I cringe. But it's a test. I have to mark them on it, not coach them. Of course, at the end of the test, pass or fail, they get a debrief of ways to improve.
It's a bit frustrating telling someone they failed, and trying to let them know in an educational way.
husaberg
21st June 2017, 19:24
It's a bit frustrating telling someone they failed, and trying to let them know in an educational way.
But It's more fun than issuing tickets though aye:whistle:
rastuscat
21st June 2017, 19:41
Two ways to fail really.
One immediate fail error.
Or a pattern of bad stuff.
Most fails are IFE. I've had a couple of people turn onto the wrong side of the road. That'll do it. One didn't stop at a stop sign. That'll do it too. Last week a guy pulled out in front of an oncoming car. The car had to brake to avpid my punter. That's a (#@* moment i can tell you.
Others have been generally poor at positioning, observations, following distance, speed management. You have to be fairly poor to fail this way, but it happens.
It's always been a challenge to me. We are motorcycle instructors, and also assessors.
When we are doing an assessment we are not allowed to do what's called prompting. Like, in test, we can't do coaching. It's a test.
But outside of a test, we always do coaching, advising etc.
When I'm doing an assessment, especially with a person I have coached, and they do something dumb, I cringe. But it's a test. I have to mark them on it, not coach them. Of course, at the end of the test, pass or fail, they get a debrief of ways to improve.
It's a bit frustrating telling someone they failed, and trying to let them know in an educational way.
The joys of being in an assessment framework...
As for that last part, you could always start with that leading question: "How do you think you did?"
FJRider
22nd June 2017, 12:38
So then your testing is really just an unoffical practical licence test.
There is nothing "Unofficial" in a fail. You pass ... or ... NOT ..!!!
...unoffical practical licence test...
Why do I feel like that's a heavy understatement.
FJRider
22nd June 2017, 13:00
... so you can determine whether the fault lies with his riding e.g. speeding or the fault of other motorists not seeing him or giving way.
If you are unsure if another motorist has seen you and will give way to you in accordance with the rules in the Land Transport act ... do you ...
a. Continue on your intended line of travel and at the same speed as you have right of way.
or
b. Slow down and prepare to take avoiding action if required.
If you are unsure if another motorist has seen you and will give way to you in accordance with the rules in the Land Transport act ... do you ...
a. Continue on your intended line of travel and at the same speed as you have right of way.
or
b. Slow down and prepare to take avoiding action if required.
Oh, gee... that's a tough one... I'll need a moment or two to think about... hope no dog runs in front while I do... gee mate, can I have a third option? I'm just so confused... :shit:
FJRider
22nd June 2017, 14:47
Oh, gee... that's a tough one... I'll need a moment or two to think about... hope no dog runs in front while I do... gee mate, can I have a third option? I'm just so confused... :shit:
In my opinion ... if option b. is not used ...you have no reason to moan about high ACC levies. Because if you take no action to avoid (possible) accidents ... you are just as responsible as the other driver(s) ... for the end results.
In my opinion ... if option b. is not used ...you have no reason to moan about high ACC levies. Because if you take no action to avoid (possible) accidents ... you are just as responsible as the other driver(s) ... for the end results.
I would totally agree - total lack of defensive driving or riding.
It amazes me the number of drivers, and riders, who "charge on regardless" in situations where if it turns to custard you'll be the prune in the custard. One that springs to mind are drivers who drive through supermarket and shopping centre carparks at speed, especially when there are children about which is often most of the time.
You always assume there is a time lag to swerve, brake etc to avoid a crash. Well let me educate you there is not always a time lag otherwise there would be no crashes now would there?
You "make time for yourself" by slowing down, positioning your self for your best possible view ahead and best possible position to be seen by others, thinking "what if?", being aware of what is going on around you and so on...
You always assume there is a time lag to swerve, brake etc to avoid a crash. Well let me educate you there is not always a time lag otherwise there would be no crashes now would there?
You probably aren't looking or observing far enough if you don't find space of time to swerve :weird:
rastuscat
22nd June 2017, 16:55
You probably aren't looking or observing far enough if you don't find space of time to swerve :weird:
You sound like you've done one of my courses EJ :Police:
rastuscat
22nd June 2017, 17:06
We teach people emergency braking on our courses.
Then we spend the rest of the day showing people how to avoid having to emergency brake.
Rarely do I ever have to apply the brakes heavily. As I don't ride like the world owes me courtesy.
nzspokes
22nd June 2017, 17:16
You probably aren't looking or observing far enough if you don't find space of time to swerve :weird:
Sadly this ls the core of her problem.
FJRider
22nd June 2017, 17:48
Thats why I slow down for bends unlike some on here as you never know the state of whoever is coming the other way. As for doubt whether another motorist is going to give way or not thats a tricky one as by slowing down to give way to them you run the risk of being rear ended by anyone following.
If you see a possible issue ahead ... check your mirrors and flash you brake lights.It will be an early warning for them too. Following too closely may cause you to rear end them. Watch vehicles in front of the one ahead of you for brake lights or indicators.
Treat all vehicles getting closer to you (from the front or behind) within 100 meters ... as being out to kill you ... as one of them actually might.
Assume vehicles parked on either side of the road are about to attempt a U-turn. Do not cross to the opposite side of the road to pass vehicles parked on your side ... they will not be looking in their mirrors for vehicles on that side of the road.
Let vehicles that want to overtake you ... overtake you. Possible road-rage if you police their intent by blocking them from passing. Car vs bike ... you will lose.
Listen to the warning voices in your head ... but ... if those voices are saying KILL KILL KILL ... change your mode of transport. If you never hear any warning voices ... take your partner on your next ride. You WILL hear some then ...
FJRider
22nd June 2017, 18:10
We teach people emergency braking on our courses.
Then we spend the rest of the day showing people how to avoid having to emergency brake.
It's a bit like STD's ... prevention is a lot less stressful (and painful) than the cures ... :blank:
Rarely do I ever have to apply the brakes heavily. As I don't ride like the world owes me courtesy.
Have you no stick-on reflective panels ... leftover from your last employer .. :devil2:
Luckylegs
22nd June 2017, 18:32
...it's a bit frustrating telling someone they failed, and trying to let them know in an educational way.
Kinda like replying to cassina really innit
rastuscat
22nd June 2017, 19:09
It's a bit like STD's ... prevention is a lot less stressful (and painful) than the cures ... :blank:
Have you no stick-on reflective panels ... leftover from your last employer .. :devil2:
Funny. I wear gear and ride a bike totally different from the Popo colours.
It's an R1200RT, dark blue. My helmet and suit could be argued to be similar, though my usual jacket is red, and my helmet white. I wear a company yellow vest.
Yet frequently people ditch their cellphones when i arrived next to them. Amusing.
nzspokes
22nd June 2017, 20:37
I was hit by one such driver while remaining in the view of their mirror.
No thats them reversing into you.
...Looking at the lights of vehicles in front of the one directly in front of you is not always possible if you are following a big truck or bus...
So you drop back, give yourself room and time, move to the right to look beyond the large vehicle or to the left to do the same, make sure you're in their mirrors so they know you're there... it's not rocket science...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNOZA3T5afo
nzspokes
22nd June 2017, 20:43
So you drop back, give yourself room and time, move to the right to look beyond the large vehicle or to the left to do the same, make sure you're in their mirrors so they know you're there... it's not rocket science...
You got it.
Sadly some dont.
Akzle
22nd June 2017, 20:46
So you drop back, give yourself room and time, move to the right to look beyond the large vehicle or to the left to do the same, make sure you're in their mirrors so they know you're there... it's not rocket science...]
never mind rockets. or science.
that cunt's so thick it'd be a miracle if he kept all the crayon between the lines and didn't eat them.
You got it.
Sadly some don't.
Russ at Roadcraft Nottingham is a good wet day use of bandwidth...
OK, road rules are a bit different but the basics of good, safe and responsible riding are the same.
never mind rockets. or science.
that cunt's so thick it'd be a miracle if he kept all the crayon between the lines and didn't eat them.
You leave Ralph out of this...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/14/Ralph_Wiggum.png
TheDemonLord
23rd June 2017, 00:59
We teach people emergency braking on our courses.
Then we spend the rest of the day showing people how to avoid having to emergency brake.
Rarely do I ever have to apply the brakes heavily. As I don't ride like the world owes me courtesy.
AMS Controller: Continental give me a good rate please through FL100?
Continental: Well sir, we are doing 2000 feet per minute.
AMS Controller: Could you make it 3000 feet per minute?
Continental : No sir.
AMS Controller: Oh, do you not have a speedbrake?
Continental: Yes sir, I do, but that is for MY mistakes, not for yours!
Akzle
23rd June 2017, 12:41
I am not a fast rider anyway as unlike most on here I take notice of speed advisory signs on bends. I think there is a statistic that states many accidents happen at or under the speed limit which means shit can still happen too fast to brake or swerve irrespective of what speed you are doing.
will. you. just. fuck. off.
you are an ignorant asshole and do nothing but spout shit. the same shit. again and again.
Honest Andy
23rd June 2017, 13:20
That would not work if you are in bumper to bumper traffic as if you widen the gap between the vehicle in front someone following will likely overtake you and close the gap.
Yes it does work. It's only you that fucks it up.
Voltaire
23rd June 2017, 13:40
I am not a fast rider anyway as unlike most on here I take notice of speed advisory signs on bends. I think there is a statistic that states many accidents happen at or under the speed limit which means shit can still happen too fast to brake or swerve irrespective of what speed you are doing.
Here is another advisory you should follow too.:lol:
https://d15shllkswkct0.cloudfront.net/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2013/05/delete-button.jpg
You "make time for yourself" by slowing down, positioning your self for your best possible view ahead and best possible position to be seen by others, thinking "what if?", being aware of what is going on around you and so on...
I am not a fast rider anyway as unlike most on here I take notice of speed advisory signs on bends. I think there is a statistic that states many accidents happen at or under the speed limit which means shit can still happen too fast to brake or swerve irrespective of what speed you are doing.
What connection is there between what I wrote about "making time for yourself" and, consequently, "space and room to maneuvre" and what you wrote about speed through corners? I'd suggest very little connection and if this was a fifth form essay I'd be handing it back with the instruction to "answer or comment upon the question". Reply to what is said and do not throw up red herrings.
This is what you do, even in heavy traffic flows:
So you drop back, give yourself room and time, move to the right to look beyond the large vehicle or to the left to do the same, make sure you're in their mirrors so they know you're there... it's not rocket science...
That would not work if you are in bumper to bumper traffic as if you widen the gap between the vehicle in front someone following will likely overtake you and close the gap.
If you are in bumper-to-bumper it does work. You move to the right of your lane to see beyond the vehicle in front while still maintaining your lane position - "owning your lane" - and if need be you drop back a wee bit to give yourself enough room to stop without having to nose dive your bike. If someone in the adjacent lane wants to change lanes, probably because they haven't checked properly - an altogether too common habit of NZ drivers, then you can either give them a wee "note on the horn" or just drop back and let them go in ahead. Then you re-position yourself for maximum view ahead.
Also, if you're in heavy traffic and the person following will likely overtake you and fill the gap then it sounds like you're on a two-lane road only and you're probably better off having them in front of you where you can keep an eye on them rather than behind you and tailgating you.
Yes it does work. It's only you that fucks it up.
There are many on here who will agree with Honest Andy.
And before anyone else asks "Why are you replying?" - because if there is someone reading this who is new to biking and has never driven a car and so has no experience of driving on a road, as opposed to someone coming to a bike who already has experience driving, then this sort of irresponsible "dribble" needs to be rebutted. Even if we do feel we are hitting our heads against a brick wall...
When you said "making time for yourself" I interpreted that to mean slow down so if shit does happen you have a better chance to swerve or brake. As I said from statistics many accidents still happen at or below the speed limit so SHIT CAN HAPPEN AT ANY SPEED Got that sport??
Yes, "making time for yourself" could involve slowing down and consequently increasing your following distance. It might also involve you positioning yourself differently in your lane to give a better view ahead or even changing lanes on a multi-lane road. Which I do will depend upon any number of factors in play at that time and what I think will be the best solution at that time.
Very true, many crashes do occur at or below the speed limit - I think there's been some recent reports from the UK about crash causes. However if you have a crash at very low speed then questions should be asked about your preparedness for whatever could happen at that speed - were you really aware of what was going on round you? what had you done to improve your view ahead and behind of yourself? had you increased your following distance so as to avoid a sudden or emergency stop? had you made yourself visible to other road users?
[I would accept that if you are riding at very slow speed in heavy traffic and someone crosses the centre line and hits you then that could be called an accident and it could be argued that your only contributing factor to the accident was being on that particular section of road at that time. However, there are some, perhaps playing devil's advocate, who would counter argue that you should have been more observant of your surroundings and when you realised that a vehicle was about to cross the centre line you should have done whatever you could to get out of its way.]
caseye
23rd June 2017, 15:50
What connection is there between what I wrote about "making time for yourself" and, consequently, "space and room to maneuvre" and what you wrote about speed through corners? I'd suggest very little connection and if this was a fifth form essay I'd be handing it back with the instruction to "answer or comment upon the question". Reply to what is said and do not throw up red herrings.
This is what you do, even in heavy traffic flows:
If you are in bumper-to-bumper it does work. You move to the right of your lane to see beyond the vehicle in front while still maintaining your lane position - "owning your lane" - and if need be you drop back a wee bit to give yourself enough room to stop without having to nose dive your bike. If someone in the adjacent lane wants to change lanes, probably because they haven't checked properly - an altogether too common habit of NZ drivers, then you can either give them a wee "note on the horn" or just drop back and let them go in ahead. Then you re-position yourself for maximum view ahead.
Also, if you're in heavy traffic and the person following will likely overtake you and fill the gap then it sounds like you're on a two-lane road only and you're probably better off having them in front of you where you can keep an eye on them rather than behind you and tailgating you.
There are many on here who will agree with Honest Andy.
And before anyone else asks "Why are you replying?" - because if there is someone reading this who is new to biking and has never driven a car and so has no experience of driving on a road, as opposed to someone coming to a bike who already has experience driving, then this sort of irresponsible "dribble" needs to be rebutted. Even if we do feel we are hitting our heads against a brick wall...
This makes it all worthwhile.
It is why I used to try and reason with her, butt, no, I'm sad to say the sooner she fucks up and becomes a non riding not a KB member the bloody better.
I remember debating on here with a guy who said he was an IAMs instructor and I gave him an example of an accident that I was in that was not my fault and there was no time or where to brake or swerve and he had no answer to what I could have done to avoid the collision.
Because he wasn't as dumb as you?
Sounds like you need some actual collison experience as I said above to shake off your dumb attitude about what I say.
Sorry, I don't ride short sighted like you.
Only the know it all muppets on here without any experience of a not at fault crash need experience from such a crash.
Cassina's Theory: More crash you have, more expert you become. For those haven't crashed, they need crashing experience. Fucking genius.
You all read it here first folks.
caspernz
23rd June 2017, 16:42
Isnt being in the wrong place at the wrong time the only "contributing factor" for anyone not at fault though irrespective of speed? I remember debating on here with a guy who said he was an IAMs instructor and I gave him an example of an accident that I was in that was not my fault and there was no time or where to brake or swerve and he had no answer to what I could have done to avoid the collision.
Unless those on here experience such a collision they will never understand where I am coming from I guess.
Actual collision experience rather than just a riding school pass is what some on here maybe need before they start mouthing off.
For starters IAM don't have instructors...observers is what those volunteers are called.
But to suggest there's nothing one could do in the case of an accident, to either avoid the accident altogether or at least minimize the severity, that's a self defeating attitude. When you've been involved in a number of accidents where you lay all of the blame with the other road user, well I for one have an issue with that. At the very least it suggests you've learned nothing from a previous accident, at worst it suggests what is referred to as a closed mind.
Have I ever crashed a bike? Yep in my early years I've had two minor prangs, both largely my fault. The main difference is that I chose to view those incidents as a learning opportunity. Did I become a better rider as a result of having two accidents? Nope, but it helped in the learning curve overall. The main variation is that I viewed them with an open mind, and it's led on to me taking part in all and any training available to me. That is what keeps me improving as a rider. Do I think of myself as perfect? Nope, but I'm doing all that I can to be safe, short of not riding at all.
As predictable as your responses are, the funny part is that the vast majority of traffic situations have a degree of predictability in them, thus one can be taught to adopt a default "safe" approach. But hey, in order to accept this an open mind is required...and as we all know, that's been your downfall.
Isn't being in the wrong place at the wrong time the only "contributing factor" for anyone not at fault though irrespective of speed? I remember debating on here with a guy who said he was an IAM instructor and I gave him an example of an accident that I was in that was not my fault and there was no time or where to brake or swerve and he had no answer to what I could have done to avoid the collision.
Unless those on here experience such a collision they will never understand where I am coming from I guess.
Actual collision experience rather than just a riding school pass is what some on here maybe need before they start mouthing off.
As I said in that post, "there are some, perhaps playing devil's advocate, who would counter argue that you should have been more observant of your surroundings and when you realised that a vehicle was about to cross the centre line you should have done whatever you could to get out of its way."
If I remember correctly, and I stand to be corrected on this, in the past some insurance companies attributed "blame for a crash" in percentages to all involved with the percentages totally 100. So, if you were rear-ended they may say your blame contribution to the crash was, say, 5% and the person who hit your rear was 95% to blame because the insurance company argued that "just being there" you had contributed to the crash. Had you left your starting point 2 minutes earlier or later you probably would not have been there.
Now, "being in the wrong place at the wrong time"... this is one of those philosophical questions that could be debated endlessly. However, I'm going to suggest that if you were on your bike and were rear-ended while waiting at a set of traffic lights then you were not sufficiently aware of what was happening behind you, you had not checked in your mirrors or, perhaps, had made a "what if" plan. What if that vehicle coming up behind does not stop? What am I going to do?
As for other situations, there are those who would argue that you had not prepared yourself for that "what if" scenario... what if a vehicle coming the other way runs wide on this corner? what if, heaven forbid, a dog runs out? what if a child runs out? what if that vehicles pulls out of that side street?
Before you start replying to what I have written, stop and think about those scenarios. What could you do to reduce the change of a crash in each of those situations?
caspernz
23rd June 2017, 17:05
My argument is not with accidents due to our own fault but the fault of others. You are an example of a person on here who needs to experience an accident through the fault of someone else to become educated on what I am saying here. Unless you have extra sensory perception it is impossible to forecast in advance when others are going to screw up on the road. If everyone had ESP there would be no crashes now would there? Just think about it.
You see there's an element of perception in here. I say my two accidents are largely my fault, primarily because I accept that I could have taken a different course of action when faced with less than ideal circumstances. So when I'm going a little bit quick and then can't quite haul the bike up to a stop when that car pulls out from a side street...I can choose to blame the car driver entirely. I didn't, and learned from that experience. Nothing to do with ESP, purely down to poor choices made by me. The joys of being 17 in a way. Certainly put the focus on "riding to the conditions" and learning how to perform panic/emergency stops.
The second accident I had, not even a year later. Damp day, coming off a motorway exit ramp, slight bend with what was most likely a diesel spill. Front end washout at low speed. So do I blame the person who spilled the diesel or do I admit my own powers of observation at that stage of my riding career could improve? Again, nothing to do with ESP, it was all there for me to observe yet this is where I failed. Learning experience...
So by all means keep banging the drum about accidents where you had no options for alternative actions, sorry to say I'm not buying it.
My argument is not with accidents due to our own fault but the fault of others. You are an example of a person on here who needs to experience an accident through the fault of someone else to become educated on what I am saying here. Unless you have extra sensory perception it is impossible to forecast in advance when others are going to screw up on the road. If everyone had ESP there would be no crashes now would there? Just think about it.
Just along the road from my home is a crossroads intersection - one street has STOP signs and the other has no control. Whenever I approach that intersection and I on the uncontrolled street I am very vigilant about what is happening on that other street. Why? Because too many drivers and riders have no understanding of STOP signs and drive/ride straight through them.
If a driver fails to stop and, consequently, give way to me and I hit them because "I had the right of way" and I had done nothing to avoid that situation then I would argue that am as much at fault as the other driver. Perhaps if I was in the middle of the intersection and they drove into the side of me then it could be argued that there was nothing I could do about the crash. However, the philosophers might want to argue the "just being there" point...
So, it is nothing to do with ESP at all. It is to do with riding, or driving, in such a way as to take such action as is possible in order to avoid an incident or crash. If someone else does something "stupid" and I crash into them when there was time for me to avoid that then I have contributed to the crash - and I make that "time" by creating a safety zone around myself.
Others have said it before and others will say it again - "Ride as if everyone is out to kill you..."
The only way of reducing the chance of crash when others screw up is to stay off the road full stop as you never know how far away you will be from them when they do. You may get time to brake or swerve or you may not. Its a bit of a lottery eh. You would be surprised to know that ACC gets many claims from falls in the home each year so you don't even have to leave the footpath to come to grief. Life is risky full stop.
If you feel that this is the solution, then please apply this solution to your riding and driving and stay home.
Meanwhile I am going to continue riding and driving and whilst doing so I am going to do all that is within my powers to avoid having a crash. If I am unfortunate to have a crash then I'm going to be looking at what I did that contributed to the crash and learn from that...
Madness
23rd June 2017, 17:16
If you feel that this is the solution, then please apply this solution to your riding and driving and stay home.
And on the internet all day?
caspernz
23rd June 2017, 17:18
Apparently I must spread some rep before giving it to Moi again...
The main prerequisite for your argument is an open mind on the part of your audience, or at least a willingness to re-examine past events with one. Let's just whistle Dixie now...:rolleyes::devil2:
Honest Andy
23rd June 2017, 17:20
It's certainly good to have an experts view from time to time.
Whatever anyone says about Cassina he/she is very knowledgeable on crashing.
I was a bit of an expert at crashing myself, when I was young and ignorant. But with more experience and training my specialist subject now is "not crashing".
It took some time and perserverance but it's been worth it.
I think of it as a promotion.
http://www.freesignage.com/pdfthumbs/osha_think/accidents_are_avoidable_forget_the_alibi_osha_caut ion_sign.png
You can only have powers to avoid screw ups that you could make personally. You are a fool if you think you could have the same power to avoid the screw ups of others.
Scenario:
I'm riding, or for that matter driving, in the left lane of two lanes. There's another vehicle in the right lane lane. That vehicle suddenly and unexpectedly pulls over to the left and enters my lane. Other vehicle almost hits me, perhaps they do hit me...
I suspect you'd say it was a screw up on the part of the other driver that caused me to be hit.
I'd argue that I could have avoided that situation...
Now here's the challenge - are you prepared to accept it?
What could I have done prior to the "incident" to have avoided it?
I await your response.
Honest Andy
23rd June 2017, 17:40
oh oh I know the answer! can I can I? pleeeeaase????
oh oh I know the answer! can I can I? pleeeeaase????
Here are the blackboard dusters, they need cleaning... over the other side of the concrete will be a good place, off you go Andy...
caspernz
23rd June 2017, 17:55
Now hold on just a minute. No reference made to lady luck, shit happens, where are the rabid dogs and can I use ESP?:killingme:killingme
Honest Andy
23rd June 2017, 18:00
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHF4I0p_4kSEyfLG-1Sf8Y4mbmjh8xEfGT66GzUOLzBsry9BhI2-5OU4Lw
What I would ask you is how do you know if the vehicle in the next lane is going to create an incident in the first place?
I don't know, but I can operate on the "what if" principle.
If you think it's possible you could just speed up to ensure you were past them in the event they decide to change lanes...
True, but what else could I do?
..but if you are in bumper to bumper traffic in your lane you could try and lane split maybe but that does carry its own risks too. Life is a risk!
Yes, I could lane split, but as you say lane splitting can be risky.
I'd argue that if the traffic is that heavy that it is bumper-to-bumper then there are still things, apart from lane splitting, I could do to avoid being hit - what could that be?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHF4I0p_4kSEyfLG-1Sf8Y4mbmjh8xEfGT66GzUOLzBsry9BhI2-5OU4Lw
diddums...
pritch
23rd June 2017, 18:50
What I would ask you is how do you know if the vehicle in the next lane is going to create an incident in the first place? If you think its possible you could just speed up to ensure you were past them in the event they decide to change lanes but if you are in bumper to bumper traffic in your lane you could try and lane split maybe but that does carry its own risks too. Life is a risk!
On reading this I find myself shaking my head. Your questions indicate you just don't have a fucking clue. Please stop posting on safety matters. It's just possible somebody with limited comprehension skills and/or judgement might mistakenly think you actually knew what you were talking about.
On reading this I find myself shaking my head. Your questions indicate you just don't have a fucking clue. Please stop posting on safety matters. It's just possible somebody with limited comprehension skills and/or judgement might mistakenly think you actually knew what you were talking about.
For a moment there I thought you were addressing me... then I saw to whom you were responding... Whew!
Honest Andy
23rd June 2017, 19:38
diddums...
:laugh:
..........
caseye
23rd June 2017, 19:40
On reading this I find myself shaking my head. Your questions indicate you just don't have a fucking clue. Please stop posting on safety matters. It's just possible somebody with limited comprehension skills and/or judgement might mistakenly think you actually knew what you were talking about.
My Point all along you lot, this idiot is making us all look like were condoning hér advice by continuing to have ordinary motorcyclists trying to reason with IT! YOU CANT!
You could indicate to pull off to the side of the road until the traffic has passed too. But really with all the doubt you have its time to give up riding I think.
You don't seem to understand the rules of this...
I am asking the questions and you are answering them.
Not the other way round.
So, how about going back to my post and having a go at answering the questions...
eldog
23rd June 2017, 20:25
Poster #154 awesome as a witness in a court room., ya think!
"please answer the question poster #154"
passed school cert by questioning the exam questions.
"more dangerous to be at home than on the road" says ACC spokesperson poster #154
stopped by Mr Plod "do you know the speed limit in this area"
poster #154 replied "I was accelerating to get past you in case you turned around, which you did to follow me, I was being safe, that's why I ploughed off the road, watching the animal on the side of the road, I went on the footpath, as it is safer according to my logic and the number of ACC claims"
does one assume that you haven't taught anyone else to use the public road system
poster #154 never wrong
Well if I have all the answers wrong give them to me then or are you worried I will see flaws in them?
I did not say you were wrong, I just asked/suggested that you might have more options...
eldog
23rd June 2017, 20:54
I did not say you were wrong, I just asked/suggested that you might have more options...
+1
poster #154 give us some alternatives/options rather than avoid with other questions and tangents
I am sure you can do it.:wait:
Akzle
23rd June 2017, 21:15
Ok if I only gave some of the right answers lets hear the rest from you?
dont fret, no cunt's yet accused you of having even "some of the right answers"
Ok if I only gave some of the right answers lets hear the rest from you?
OK, off you go...
You said:
What I would ask you is how do you know if the vehicle in the next lane is going to create an incident in the first place?
I replied:
I don't know, but I can operate on the "what if" principle.
You said:
If you think it's possible you could just speed up to ensure you were past them in the event they decide to change lanes...
I replied:
True, but what else could I do?
You said:
...but if you are in bumper to bumper traffic in your lane you could try and lane split maybe but that does carry its own risks too. Life is a risk!
I replied:
Yes, I could lane split, but as you say lane splitting can be risky.
I'd argue that if the traffic is that heavy that it is bumper-to-bumper then there are still things, apart from lane splitting, I could do to avoid being hit - what could that be?
Remember - you're thinking about the scenario I gave...
nzspokes
23rd June 2017, 22:36
That would not work if you are in bumper to bumper traffic as if you widen the gap between the vehicle in front someone following will likely overtake you and close the gap.
So if the traffic is bumper to bumper, why would you plan to overtake?
ellipsis
23rd June 2017, 22:52
So if the traffic is bumper to bumper, why would you plan to overtake?
...'cos it's really just a big group ride...silly...
Berries
24th June 2017, 00:07
OK, off you go....
Why do you even bother?
The poster that asked the questions has a fear of the car in the right hand lane changing lanes without seeing him and if there is bumper to bumper traffic he would have no option but to lane split which has its own risks. If he can not live with such fear he should give up riding I feel.
As the person who gave the scenario, which is:
I'm riding, or for that matter driving, in the left lane of two lanes. There's another vehicle in the right lane lane. That vehicle suddenly and unexpectedly pulls over to the left and enters my lane. Other vehicle almost hits me, perhaps they do hit me...
I did not mention fear of the car in the right hand lane - that's a red herring.
I did not mention density of traffic - that's a red herring.
I do have other options than to "lane split".
I have no intention of giving up riding.
So, let's get back to the scenario...
thinking about position, awareness, space, speed, environment, weather...
Why do you even bother?
I like hitting my head against a brick wall...
No!
As has been said before, misinformation needs to be challenged and corrected for the benefit of those who are not sure if it is misinformation.
However, it does raise the question "Is this person for real?". Is it someone who has survived on a bike more by good luck than anything else or is it someone who is highly skilled and playing devil's advocate in order to make others think about their own riding?
If the former than a few Ride4Ever courses would be a good investment - paging RastusCat...
If the later, perhaps they need to come clean about it and approach the topic from a different angle.
Now, back to my morning coffee and Saturday's Herald.
caspernz
24th June 2017, 13:47
Why do you even bother?
Some of us feel the need (on occasion only mind you) to push back on the incessant bullshit which comes from certain quarters...
As the person who gave the scenario, which is:
I'm riding, or for that matter driving, in the left lane of two lanes. There's another vehicle in the right lane lane. That vehicle suddenly and unexpectedly pulls over to the left and enters my lane. Other vehicle almost hits me, perhaps they do hit me...
I did not mention fear of the car in the right hand lane - that's a red herring.
I did not mention density of traffic - that's a red herring.
I do have other options than to "lane split".
I have no intention of giving up riding.
So, let's get back to the scenario...
thinking about position, awareness, space, speed, environment, weather...
Absolutely on point. Tough arguing a point with a female though, deviation from the specifics suggest you've cornered her...
I like hitting my head against a brick wall...
No!
As has been said before, misinformation needs to be challenged and corrected for the benefit of those who are not sure if it is misinformation.
However, it does raise the question "Is this person for real?". Is it someone who has survived on a bike more by good luck than anything else or is it someone who is highly skilled and playing devil's advocate in order to make others think about their own riding?
If the former than a few Ride4Ever courses would be a good investment - paging RastusCat...
If the later, perhaps they need to come clean about it and approach the topic from a different angle.
Now, back to my morning coffee and Saturday's Herald.
Agree, misinformation must be challenged :devil2:
FJRider
24th June 2017, 13:52
That would not work if you are in bumper to bumper traffic as if you widen the gap between the vehicle in front someone following will likely overtake you and close the gap.
You don't need to drop back very far ... knowing the road helps you plan your overtaking spot better ... and good timing on the overtake helps.
If there is not enough clear vision ahead for a motorcyclist to overtake ... there wont be for any vehicles (cars) behind them.
Bumper to bumper traffic is usually both directions.
FJRider
24th June 2017, 14:32
You can only have powers to avoid screw ups that you could make personally. You are a fool if you think you could have the same power to avoid the screw ups of others.
You do have the power. If you consider what possible stupid stunt another motorist near you might pull ... you start thinking of what your options are to prevent and/or avoid it. The sooner you start thinking about it ... the more options you'll have. And ... IF the screw up starts ... you already know what you will do.
Take the right option early ... and the screw up will start without you. If you take a few extra minutes of your precious time to avoid a screw up (that might not even happen) ... there is no downside.
The bad news is ... each situation is slightly different ... so the option you took last time ... might not work this time.
caspernz
24th June 2017, 15:25
Finally you say something that makes sense in that every situation is different and as I have said your ability to brake or swerve comes down to how far you are from the shit when it happens. I have been closer than you because I had no time to brake or swerve unlike you and some others on here. Why do you and others think it is impossible for shit to happen too quick to swerve or brake because as I have said numerous times no one would crash if we all had time to swerve or brake now would they?
The majority of incidents/accidents where there's no time to react are classified as either following too close or failing to drive to the conditions. That's the simple fact we've been attempting to get across...:brick:
FJRider
24th June 2017, 15:39
Finally you say something that makes sense in that every situation is different and as I have said your ability to brake or swerve comes down to how far you are from the shit when it happens. I have been closer than you because I had no time to brake or swerve unlike you and some others on here. Why do you and others think it is impossible for shit to happen too quick to swerve or brake because as I have said numerous times no one would crash if we all had time to swerve or brake now would they?
For me ... it all comes down to ONE thing ... I HATE the sight of blood on the tarmac. (Especially if it is MINE) So ... my preferred option is ALWAYS avoidance.
Disregard who has "Right of Way" ... and allow those who want your spot in the road to have it ... if that is the only option you have to staying upright. You are on a motorcycle ... and usually you catch and pass them later anyway. If you don't ... no biggie ... as they will be endangering somebody else's health.
Keep your mind on the job ... and keep looking for (possible) issues (in front and behind). A large distance between you and other vehicles can never be an issue ... if there is plenty of it ... there is time for choosing options. Lack of following distance kills more motorcyclists than speed alone.
This policy may NOT mean avoidance of all accidents ... but you will avoid more. The more you avoid ... the longer you will live.
FJRider
24th June 2017, 15:49
... Why do they believe there is no such thing as luck running out for them I wonder.
We are responsible for our own luck. Lack of faith in your own ability will do your head in. Motorcycling is based on confidence/knowledge/skill .. lack any of the three and you are doomed.
Judging by your posts to date ... you are doomed.
Akzle
24th June 2017, 15:56
i've known many people involved in traffic collisions, 2-18 wheels.
the only one stupid enough yet to claim there was nothing they could have done to mitigate or avoid, is young c*ssina.
There is the views from some on here who believe as a result of what, I must say is sheer luck in always having time to brake or swerve but they falsely believe because of always being able to swerve or brake in time in the past they will be able to do so in the future. Why do they believe there is no such thing as luck running out for them I wonder.
I would strongly suggest that luck has very little to do with having time or space to take avoiding actions, but it is skill and the practice of good riding/driving habits that provides them with time and space to avoid a situation that could be of concern to the rider/driver.
You do have the power. If you consider what possible stupid stunt another motorist near you might pull ... you start thinking of what your options are to prevent and/or avoid it. The sooner you start thinking about it ... the more options you'll have. And ... IF the screw up starts ... you already know what you will do.
Take the right option early ... and the screw up will start without you. If you take a few extra minutes of your precious time to avoid a screw up (that might not even happen) ... there is no downside.
The bad news is ... each situation is slightly different ... so the option you took last time ... might not work this time.
+1
......
For me ... it all comes down to ONE thing ... I HATE the sight of blood on the tarmac. (Especially if it is MINE) So ... my preferred option is ALWAYS avoidance.
Disregard who has "Right of Way" ... and allow those who want your spot in the road to have it ... if that is the only option you have to staying upright. You are on a motorcycle ... and usually you catch and pass them later anyway. If you don't ... no biggie ... as they will be endangering somebody else's health.
Keep your mind on the job ... and keep looking for (possible) issues (in front and behind). A large distance between you and other vehicles can never be an issue ... if there is plenty of it ... there is time for choosing options. Lack of following distance kills more motorcyclists than speed alone.
This policy may NOT mean avoidance of all accidents ... but you will avoid more. The more you avoid ... the longer you will live.
I'm sure every rider instructor says words to this effect to every learner...
[Must spread more rep first...]
Luckylegs
24th June 2017, 17:25
Finally you say something that makes sense in that every situation is different and as I have said your ability to brake or swerve comes down to how far you are from the shit when it happens. I have been closer than you because I had no time to brake or swerve unlike you and some others on here. Why do you and others think it is impossible for shit to happen too quick to swerve or brake because as I have said numerous times no one would crash if we all had time to swerve or brake now would they?
Because short of someone on the uss enterprise having just issued the command 'energise', i know of no way of something not being in front of you all of a sudden appearing directly in front of you (Without it having some time to get there).
When you say brake or swerve do you mean at least activate the brake lever or are do you mean stop.
Interestingly, my son had a recent accident where he neither had time to pull the brake or swerve. This was because he fucked up and ran clean into it having assumed it had already gone past and he was looking to his right to see what was coming, or not coming, next.
Either way, your a fucktard or playing devils advocate as someone else mentioned...
Does princess bandit have south island siblings???? Hmmmmm
Luckylegs
24th June 2017, 17:43
My argument is about those NOT AT FAULT in an accident not having time to brake or swerve always. I find I am not debating with anyone very bright on here which may include you if you don't understand how the situation is different for those not at fault as they are not the ones in control of any time lag between a possible impact.
Maybe im not bright then. My wife would probably concur but... please give me an example of where you believe physics allows for a rider to have an not at fault accident that leaves no time for said rider to activate their brakes (whether said braking allows them to stop or not).
I put it to your your honour, that this scenario is simply fantasy
oh btw, youre not debating with anyone on here. Actual debating actually takes a modicum of intelligence and reasoning, something you are sadly lacking in
My argument is about those NOT AT FAULT in an accident not having time to brake or swerve always. I find I am not debating with anyone very bright on here which may include you if you don't understand how the situation is different for those not at fault as they are not the ones in control of any time lag between a possible impact.
Provide a scenario...
... explain why you believe you'd not have time to brake or swerve
... explain why you'd not have "any time lag between [you mean before?] a possible impact"?
I seem to have been beaten to the mark...
caspernz
24th June 2017, 17:49
Defensive driving/riding 101 - always leave yourself an out. Gives best chance of avoiding being in a not at fault accident. Nothing to do with luck or ESP.
FJRider
24th June 2017, 19:04
That's true for anyone at fault but I have been talking about those not at fault. The situation is very different for them in terms of their proximity to the driver at fault when they screw up.
In the real world on the roads of NZ ... actual fault matters Fuck all. ALL involved are at fault ... some for causing an issue ... and the rest for letting themselves get involved. The former ... (the ... I didn't think that would happen brigade) and the latter ... (the ... it wasn't MY fault brigade) ... ALL are involved and ALL share responsibility for the result.
Seeing what is developing ... sooner rather than (too much) later ... isn't luck is called called foresight. In the case of a non-event ... it's called a false alarm. And I don't mind them in the least ...
Be "Lucky" and look harder more often. You taking better and safer options sooner ... also means better options for the other vehicle(s) that could be involved.
And I hope and trust that Karma will get "them" in the end.
I hope Karma comes soon ...
onearmedbandit
24th June 2017, 19:12
I find I am not debating with anyone very bright on here
Here we go, clear evidence of just how deluded you actually are.
FJRider
24th June 2017, 19:25
My argument is about those NOT AT FAULT in an accident not having time to brake or swerve always.
If you ride in traffic ... leaving yourself NO time to brake or swerve ... YOU ARE AT FAULT ... :doh:
I find I am not debating with anyone very bright on here which may include you
That exact thought crossed OUR minds too ... :laugh:
if you don't understand how the situation is different for those not at fault as they are not the ones in control
Unless you have NO control of the throttle or brakes ... YOU HAVE CONTROL ... !!! Use that control to your advantage.
of any time lag between a possible impact.
Between possible impact and what ... ??? :doh:
What I wrote:
Provide a scenario...
... explain why you believe you'd not have time to brake or swerve
... explain why you'd not have "any time lag between [you mean before?] a possible impact"?
You replied:
It would perhaps be easier for you to say why you will always have time to brake or swerve if a dog runs out or a car does a u turn without seeing you or a car comes onto a one way bridge without giving way from around a bend at the the end of the bridge that you are approaching the end of?. These are real accidents through the fault of others plus a dog.
I'm not going to say anything at present except: You choose one of the above incidents and explain why you believe you were totally unable to avoid an "accident".
flashg
24th June 2017, 20:42
i've known many people involved in traffic collisions, 2-18 wheels.
the only one stupid enough yet to claim there was nothing they could have done to mitigate or avoid, is very "OLD" c*ssina.
Fixed that for ya.
Can't teach an old dog new tricks, they say [emoji23]
FJRider
24th June 2017, 20:51
It would perhaps be easier for you to say why you will always have time to brake or swerve if a dog runs out or a car does a u turn without seeing you or a car comes onto a one way bridge without giving way from around a bend at the the end of the bridge that you are approaching the end of?. These are real accidents through the fault of others plus a dog.
In rural and residential areas ... it's a good idea to scan the sides of the road/street for animals. Farmed/wild/domestic animals all have a desire to go home if they are scared (noisy motorcycles can do this) . Some dogs just like to chase vehicles. Such is life in the animal kingdom.
If you are scared a moving vehicle might U-turn .. back off a bit. If the vehicles are parked at the side of the road ... flash your lights, cover your front and rear brakes ... and button off a bit. Look for the drivers face in their mirror. If you can see them ...
Be assured .. you will not always have right of way given ... even if you are entitled to it. As far as bridges go ... first on does not have right of way in legislation. Remember ... Courtesy keeps you intact.
Few bridges have blind corners off the end. Which one did you have an issue with .. ???
Accidents can be avoided. Not attempting to avoid them makes you one of the causes.
Luckylegs
24th June 2017, 21:05
It would perhaps be easier for you to say why you will always have time to brake or swerve if a dog runs out or a car does a u turn without seeing you or a car comes onto a one way bridge without giving way from around a bend at the the end of the bridge that you are approaching the end of?. These are real accidents through the fault of others plus a dog.
Again, cos dogs dont appear out of thin air. Like you said, a dog RAN out. That implies running, that implies moving from one place to another, that means it must have been visible before it magically appeared under the front wheel of your bike. As for thd u turning car. A car on the side of the road doesnt just magically appear in front of you. It, out of neccessity (again, physics) cant go sideways across the road. There is an arc, therefore there is time, and anyway. For the car to move its wheels have to move. You should see this long before you notice the car moving too.
Akzle
24th June 2017, 21:29
Again, cos dogs dont appear out of thin air. Like you said, a dog RAN out. That implies running, that implies moving from one place to another, that means it must have been visible before it magically appeared under the front wheel of your bike. As for thd u turning car. A car on the side of the road doesnt just magically appear in front of you. It, out of neccessity (again, physics) cant go sideways across the road. There is an arc, therefore there is time, and anyway. For the car to move its wheels have to move. You should see this long before you notice the car moving too.
fletchers paradox son.
Luckylegs
24th June 2017, 21:32
fletchers paradox son.
Because. Ignorant... wtf cunt?
Berries
24th June 2017, 22:31
And a giant loop going for several years is closed. The fact that dogs run out of driveways and cars do u-turns from the side of the road has been explained to cassina in detail with great patience a multitude of times. I can guess the response already. Pointless even trying to enter in to conversation, I won't call it debate because that requires two open minds.
Luckylegs
24th June 2017, 23:23
You miss another point I mentioned in that whether you have time to brake or swerve for the dog or car is highly dependant on how far away you are from them when they make their move which can be quite quick if you have never seen a dog run across the road or a car do a u turn. Things that happen on the road when someone screws up do not happen in slow motion despite what you believe otherwise I will say again there would be no crashes at all by anyone as we would always be able to brake or swerve to avoid them wouldn't we?
1. I didnt miss your point about the distance between you and the teleporting objects.
2. You must be living in a bubble if you can assume someone else has never seen a dog run across the road, or a car do a u turn.
3.funny you mention that others screw ups dont happen in slow motion cos thats exactly what it feels like when shit happens (that'd be chemistry and biology) - Fuck it would be ironic if it turned out you were a science teacher
What im still left wondering is do you mean stop or swerve around or brake and swerve. Im in two minds as to wether i should qualify that for you, as youre so thick youll probably miss the subtle difference but since its you im probably wasting my time.
FJRider
25th June 2017, 10:17
I have had the recommendation before on here to look up driveways for dogs
No need to look up the driveways ... they'll be standing by the open gate ... <_<
Slowing down to allow the driver to pull out from the side of the road will just lessen the impact if they hit you
Got it in one ... how very perceptive of you. But it gets really spectacular at 140 km/r ... <_<
I was hit by someone that forgot it was one way. The bridge was over the Hurinui River SH1. I read in the paper last year that locals in the area have wanted it to be made 2 way as a result of accidents on it. So I am not the only victim of a muppet failing to give way on that bridge.
I know that bridge very well. And the "Please Give Way" sign is on the Rotherham end. There is a give way sign at one end only on one way bridges. The road approaches are double (and level) right up to the bridge with good visibility at both ends. The 50 km/hr zone begins at the township end. So 100 km/hr traffic is coming off the bridge head on to slow traffic. There is a bend at the village end ... but the traffic starts winding up the speed before the bridge. Locals removed the 100 km signs to slow traffic at that end ... but still up their speed at that end. The plan worked (sort of) but the earthquakes in Kaikoura increased the traffic on that road considerably. There are TWO passing bays on the bridge ... but the modern motorist has no idea what they are for. If they do ... they have no inclination or intention of ever using them. That might mean a few minutes delay in their busy lives. So with the increased traffic ... comes increased accidents from stupid people that wont follow the simple rules on one way bridges (that also includes you). When you use that bridge ... SLOW DOWN. A friend of mine died on that bridge.
Thanks to google maps I now have an appreciation of the bridge...
If I was travelling north as I approached the bridge I can see its full length and can also see if there is any south-bound traffic approaching from the north. Although I do not have a Give Way facing me as I approach the bridge I would need to do so if there was south bound traffic on the bridge.
Or even if I was in a car and a large truck was approaching from the north I'd probably pull over and let him have the "right of way" - provided I could do so without endangering myself with following traffic. If there was nothing behind me and I can see him approaching the bridge, I'd try to pull off the roadway so as to make it obvious I was going to let him go first. He has to not only negotiate the bridge but then start a climb away from it. Much easier for me to pull away after the truck has crossed the bridge than to make him stop.
I'm not going to drive or ride across the bridge at speed as I've seen from my vantage point on the southern approach that there's a bend just after the end of the bridge on the northern side. Because of that bend I'm going to be cautious as I approach the northern end of the bridge just in case a south bound driver is not aware that I am approaching. Perhaps even sound the horn, though that can be a little fruitless with people driving with the car stereo turned up to "LOUD", so that I am announcing my presence on the bridge.
However, if I was travelling south I have to re-think what I would do. First, I have a Give Way sign facing me at the northern end of the bridge and I also have a left hand bend to negotiate as I drive onto the bridge. My view across the bridge is restricted and so I'm going to slow down as I approach the bridge, prepared to stop to give way to north bound traffic. If there was no traffic visible and I'm in a car I'd move as close to the centre line of the roadway as possible as I get closer to the Give Way limit line to enhance my view across the bridge and I'd do this at a slow speed - allowing me plenty of time to react to what ever is happening ahead of me. If there is north bound traffic I'd pull over to the left to allow them as much room as possible to exit the bridge and negotiate the right turn they have. If there was no traffic north bound traffic I'd proceed, but I'd be doing all of this at a speed that if I need to stop I can do so without having to execute an emergency stop. Once on the bridge I'd increase my speed but probably not much above 30 to 40km/h - because if "shit did happen" as in someone driving onto the bridge north bound then I have time to stop, flash headlights, before we meet bumper to bumper. Also, if necessary, I'd pull into the passing bay and just wonder about their driving skills...
Of course, on a bike I'd have the advantage of height and have a better view across the bridge from either end - but that doesn't mean that I'd not be cautious about what I was doing. I am quite attached to my skin and have no desire to have any of it peeled off or bruised or damaged in anyway...
nzspokes
25th June 2017, 12:35
Slowing down to allow the driver to pull out from the side of the road will just lessen the impact if they hit you and there is no gurantee they will check their mirror anyway.
WTF? If the driver is coming from a side road they wouldn't see you in the mirror.......
Oh and its guarantee by the way. Speeling tiz a fing.............
neil.
25th June 2017, 12:40
brake OR swerve?
are the two mutually exclusive? fuck I hope not
[/B]
So thats where you get your theory from that you can always swerve or brake when shit happens because your science teacher told you it happens in slow motion? As for your confusion about braking and swerving it depends on how far you are away from the shit when it happens the further away you are the more likley you will be able to brake but closer you may have to swerve as you would not have enough stopping distance. Going to a riding school will teach you about that. I consider those like yourself equally as thick if you think I am.
I was not speeding over the bridge as I was in a line of traffic and I had just cleared the end of the bridge heading north before the lane splits into 2. If I had been going any slower the muppet that hit me may have actually hit me on the bridge knocking me off it. A witness told me that the driver in front of me thought they were going to get it so the muppet must have squeezed through a very narrow gap. The muppet and not me was prosecuted. Sadly I was only awarded a small amount in damages due to our weak justice system. I bet I would have no opposition to my views on this site if all those I debate with were to experience such an accident.
Discussing and clarifying what you wrote above:
* I'm presuming you were in a car rather than on a bike - even though you say "knocking me off" - would your vehicle have been knocked off the road?
* where you the last in the line of traffic?
* going slower - you might have been better off if you were the last and had a bigger gap between you and the vehicle ahead - time to stop even if you were facing the oncoming vehicle
* despite you being not prosecuted, and consequently legally not at fault - what would you do differently if you were in such a position again, either on that bridge or another single lane bridge?
But if you were in a line of traffic as I was, going over the bridge you would think you would be far safer than crossing on your own which was what I was in. Even if I had seen the muppet coming around the bend from the north end of the bridge there was no where to swerve off the road as there is armco barriers at both ends of the bridge. He shunted the rear of my car into the armco barrier as it was. If I had been on a bike and not a lowish car I would be dead even though I may have seen him sooner as I said there was no where to swerve off the bridge/road. I did check after impact that my headlight switch was on and it was so I should have been easily visible.
* in a line of traffic or the last vehicle?
* this is the google view of the northern end of the bridge (https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-42.8980583,173.097816,3a,75y,60.36h,87.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBesWHWXznHH5_SqoaXvYxQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656) [hope this works] - so you where actually off the bridge, not on the bridge as suggested by you saying: "Even if I had seen the muppet coming around the bend from the north end of the bridge there was no where to swerve off the road as there is armco barriers at both ends of the bridge."
* perhaps on a bike you might have been safer, he may have missed you altogether, or you might have seen him moving off and been able to sound your horn or accelerate out of the way
* as I said above, perhaps a "note on the horn" might have been in order.
* about what speed do you estimate you were doing as left the bridge? what about the other vehicle?
Again, thinking about the incident it is not a case of saying "I couldn't do anything" but rather a case of "I didn't do this or that which may have made a difference to the outcome".
Certainly an unfortunate crash for you, but as others have said both on this thread and other threads - there is often time to do something to avoid a crash or to lessen the impact...
Akzle
25th June 2017, 17:04
I was in a line of traffic the impact would have been at the point of where the middle yellow arrow is. .
so the vehicle behind you also rear ended you?
From what you have said I am still not sure if you were last vehicle crossing the bridge or if there were other vehicles following you across the bridge.
But that aside for the moment...
As for the vehicle that hit you - obviously the driver lacked observational skills because they appeared to fail to see the signs indicating that they were approaching a one lane bridge or the signs that indicated that north bound vehicles had priority on the bridge. They obviously failed to see you. They also failed in taking any form of evasive action before hitting you. [Some might say typical of many 4x4 drivers.]
Your response to this incident appears to be to buy a bigger vehicle than others on the road - that bodes well for cyclists and motorcyclists in the Canterbury region, let alone anyone driving a small or medium sized car - so that you'll be okay in any future crashes. What's called the "I'm OK, I'm fire proof" approach. However, you seem to have not taken any learning from this incident as in being more observant or considering "what could I do if...". Your response, as I said above, appears to be "buy a bigger vehicle".
If you had said that you are now more aware of vehicles approaching from the other direction when crossing one lane bridges and you position yourself, whether you're on a bike or in a car, to give yourself optimum view ahead and to give other road users best opportunity to see you - especially if the road curves to left or right at the end of the bridge, and that you consider "what could I do if" then I doubt if you'd get the flak that you do from others.
How can I put this, as RastusCat says "in an educational way"...
It seems, to me, that you have either not learnt any thing from the crashes you have had or have adopted the principle that "as I was not at fault then I must have been doing the right thing".
As for not learning unless you have experienced a crash... No! I have the ability to learn vicariously.
Luckylegs
25th June 2017, 17:48
So thats where you get your theory from that you can always swerve or brake when shit happens because your science teacher told you it happens in slow motion? As for your confusion about braking and swerving it depends on how far you are away from the shit when it happens the further away you are the more likley you will be able to brake but closer you may have to swerve as you would not have enough stopping distance. Going to a riding school will teach you about that. I consider those like yourself equally as thick if you think I am.
No my science teacher taught me about the bodies reaction to shit, like adrenalin, blood to vital organs, all those things that make oh shit moments seem like theyve slowed down.
as for my theory about wether you can brake or swerve - yes i asert theres always time to apply the brakes. What you still didnt answer was wether youve been arguing theres no time to brake, or no time to stop. Answer it, you might find i dont disagree with you as entirely as you might think (god forbid)
Oh bt dubs - how do you reckon threres time for "your life to flash in front of your eyes" - perhaps in your case its quick cos it really only consists of born, dropped on head as an infant, crash.
flashg
25th June 2017, 18:33
213 posts and you lot still think you can reason with Cassina the TROLL. Good on ya.
Luckylegs
25th June 2017, 18:51
213 posts and you lot still think you can reason with Cassina the TROLL. Good on ya.
There was no time to brake or swerve in the crashes I was in otherwise I I would have attempted to do so. There has always been time for you and others to brake or swerve as you have been lucky in being far enough away to do so. Luck can run out though then you will be agreeing with me that shit can happen faster than you can brake or swerve after all. Let's not forget the case of the motorbike racer a month back who did not get time to brake or swerve either. The fact he was on a push bike is irrelevant although some on here feel the pushbike was at fault.
Ok - we dont agree in the slightest then. I think you should always be able to start to brake. Id argue with you about mr hayden, but... as per the quote above yours, i need some cassina free time, and..... LAMB KEBABS FOR DINNER
Woodman
25th June 2017, 19:13
They have poor ability in fully reading my posts because have you not noticed I have to repeat the same reply to numerous times. Maybe the fact they are not that literate has something to do with why the posts have gone on for so long. Have you ever had a crash yourself through no fault of your own that happened too quickly to brake or swerve?
Um all no fault crashes happen because there is no time to brake or swerve.
nzspokes
25th June 2017, 19:16
213 posts and you lot still think you can reason with Cassina the TROLL. Good on ya.
The concern is somebody listens to her and they get hurt.
GazzaH
25th June 2017, 19:19
The concern is somebody listens to her and they get hurt.
Thanks mum, but I grew up a long time ago when I learnt think for myself.
flashg
25th June 2017, 19:34
They have poor ability in fully reading my posts because have you not noticed I have to repeat the same reply to numerous times. Maybe the fact they are not that literate has something to do with why the posts have gone on for so long. Have you ever had a crash yourself through no fault of your own that happened too quickly to brake or swerve?
I have crashed once on the road. Going down the north side of the "hope saddle" on the way to Nelson. Diesel spillage for 200 odd metres and I low sided on one sharp left hand corner, at relatively slow speed came to a halt on my side of the road, uninjured, minor damage to the bike (but costly). I saw the diesel just as I was tipping into the corner.
There were two empty lanes coming the other way, with double yellow lines. I could have stood the bike up and crossed the yellows briefly and come back again. I was on an R1, I also could have changed my line slightly (and ridden beside the spillage) and the outcome may have been different. But I didn't, and down I went.
The conditions changed and I got caught out, my fault [emoji41]
rastuscat
25th June 2017, 19:39
All this angst has left me wishing I hadn't started this whole mess.
Forgive me, fellow moto folk.
All this angst has left me wishing I hadn't started this whole mess.
Forgive me, fellow moto folk.
Nothing to forgive.
If discussion gives people food for thought, then all good.
Just worried in case someone turns up on one of your Ride4Ever courses - would you forgive us?
Luckylegs
25th June 2017, 20:01
Ever come off yourself as a result of someone else's screwup and you have had no time to brake or swerve?
Why dont you start a poll?
Akzle
25th June 2017, 20:05
No I was not rear ended.
so in this "line of traffic"... the car in front didn't hit anything. the car behind didn't hit anything.
YOU managed a head on collision in such a manner as to injure yourself and god knows what other soulless dogs...
you are fucking astounding.
flashg
25th June 2017, 20:23
If you were cornering slower you may have seen the spill sooner and be able to swerve around it. Speed can be an enemy or friend when shit happens but mostly it's an enemy.
Did you read a bit where I said I was going fast ? I Don't remember writing it.
flashg
25th June 2017, 21:54
I did not read anything where you said you were going slow either but slowing down as others have said about my crashes may have given you a better chance of seeing the spill early and avoid it.
I low sided at one sharp left hander at a relatively slow speed and slid about two metres.
Thats what I said.
You really need to learn to remember what you read, and stop making shit up.
KawasakiKid
25th June 2017, 23:12
There was no time to brake or swerve in the crashes I was in otherwise I I would have attempted to do so. There has always been time for you and others to brake or swerve as you have been lucky in being far enough away to do so. Luck can run out though then you will be agreeing with me that shit can happen faster than you can brake or swerve after all. Let's not forget the case of the motorbike racer a month back who did not get time to brake or swerve either. The fact he was on a push bike is irrelevant although some on here feel the pushbike was at fault.
Please do not sully the memory of Nicky Hayden by bringing him into your ridiculous ramblings. He deserves better, loved by many. RIP Nicky
KawasakiKid
25th June 2017, 23:41
The point I was trying to make was that shit can happen to anyone even pro racers. Sorry you don't get it. Not many do on this site.
I have been around racing all my life, I 'get it' . And I have buried far too many friends. You probably know nothing of the accident yet you bring it for reference, an ignorant choice. You need to realise your opinions are yours alone and they are not wise. 'People like you' are a huge problem with the motorcycling world. You should take some advice from others on this forum, go to a good training course and hear what a good teacher has to say and the reasons behind the thoughts
nzspokes
26th June 2017, 06:35
Buying a 4wd does give me the least chance of being injured or killed
Again wrong.
rastuscat
26th June 2017, 10:07
Ever come off yourself as a result of someone else's screwup and you have had no time to brake or swerve?
No. My bins have all been my own fault.
Honest Andy
26th June 2017, 10:32
No. My bins have all been my own fault.
+1
OK My "Short story": Travelling on motorway in very low speed traffic I stopped behind a stationary car and was immediately hit from behind by another car.
Two Points:
1. the car behind me was absolutely at fault, no question, no argument. BUT KEEP READING CASSINNA!!!!!
2. I may have avoided that crash by leaving a bigger following distance and taking longer to slow down, giving the car behind more time to notice that the traffic had stopped.
It's a subtle difference, but it's an example of how my riding could have changed the outcome.
(true story by the way. Wrote off my shiny XZ400 :cry:, anyone remember those? They got bad reviews but I really enjoyed it after a cb125T...)
Honest Andy
26th June 2017, 11:29
I wondered if my story might be wasted... oh well. Majority rules and you're in a party of one I'm afraid. I wish you all the best in your ongoing efforts to create the perfect crash. I'm going to carry on perfecting 'not crashing', and in fact may take up a suggestion to do a Masters in 'not crashing', I like that idea better than any of yours.
ellipsis
26th June 2017, 11:30
But if...
...you had half a brain cell it would still be very lonely...
T.W.R
26th June 2017, 12:01
I don't disagree with what you are saying however, if I understand correctly, the 6R test is a "pass/fail" assessment. Pass/fail assessments are common within education and learning situations as they are relatively easy to administer - you either pass or fail each component and there will be a point at which you pass or fail depending on how many components you pass or fail. And the assessment/test is seen to stand alone from any prior instruction or possible follow-up instruction.
But, the pass/fail method has a major downfall and that is that it is a "snap shot" of performance on a particular day at a particular time. There can be no influence from either prior experience of the candidate or likely performance after the event. This means that if Dick turns up for his 6R test and is a total dick on the road on the way there but, Dick performs the assessment tasks faultlessly under test conditions then the assessor has no valid reason to fail Dick.
Pass/fail assessment is a form of summative assessment - sums up learning in a one shot assessment... remember School Certificate before you could pass some and not some.
A more appropriate form of assessment, in my opinion, would be a formative/ipsative assessment where the candidate is assessed over a number of assessments of a period of time with suitable feedback/feedforward and that the assessor is looking for improvement in both areas identified for improvement and areas which have already shown skill or achievement. However, that would require a huge rethink about how NZ teaches and tests people's ability to either ride or drive.
You're just like MVpeanut and missed the point as well and focused on the wrong thing :yes: both instances happened prior not during tests and as a courtesy to a pupil who arrives at a course saying they've encountered & have filmed incidents wouldn't it be easy to just take 5mins, view what had been recorded and advise options on how to improve or avoid possible future events. And if an incident was worthy of further discussion use the footage in front of the class as a educational tool etc :yes:
The pass/fail snapshot method is wrong...as it is easily manipulated and definitely not a true indication of level of learning or understanding. Not just with the 6R either....shit I've seen & ridden with people who have been certified motorcycle instructors and they may have the cert but in the real world couldn't ride a hot knife into butter.
Honest Andy
26th June 2017, 13:40
Sitting higher up like on a motorbike in a 4WD improves your periferal vision too giving you a better chance to avoid the screw ups of others.
Horray! Yes yes yes, avoiding the screw ups of others! So you see it is possible! :clap: Finally through sheer weight of numbers (iq numbers mainly) we've managed to plant a tiny seed. Long may it grow and be nurtured by this caring community of motorcyclists :yes:
(and please please please learn to ride better before you come anywhere near me...)
Maha
26th June 2017, 14:00
Had a guy on a course today wearing his Go Pro on his helmet.
He tells me he has been cut off 3 times this week, and he's sick of it, so he's got a Go Pro. Like, that'll make a difference.
Out on the course today a guy U-turned across our path. Our man could have backed off and avoided it by miles, but he insisted on riding close to the U-turner and filming it, complete with expletives.
So, from what I can see, using that Go Pro has caused him to ride like a dick.
Am I wrong?
No, your summation about this guy seems correct.
Spoke to guy once that filmed every time he rode. His reason for doing this was for those day when he didn't go out, so he could sit inside and (stroke himself) watch his previous awesome skills and road craft.
My summation of that guy is also correct, anyone who has rainbow coloured knee sliders is :facepalm:
You're just like MVpeanut and missed the point as well and focused on the wrong thing :yes: both instances happened prior not during tests and as a courtesy to a pupil who arrives at a course saying they've encountered & have filmed incidents wouldn't it be easy to just take 5mins, view what had been recorded and advise options on how to improve or avoid possible future events. And if an incident was worthy of further discussion use the footage in front of the class as a educational tool etc :yes:
The pass/fail snapshot method is wrong...as it is easily manipulated and definitely not a true indication of level of learning or understanding. Not just with the 6R either....shit I've seen & ridden with people who have been certified motorcycle instructors and they may have the cert but in the real world couldn't ride a hot knife into butter.
Sorry, I didn't miss the point.
Your statement that I didn't understand what was said is in error - I believe I did.
You suggested that RastusCat should have coached the rider about his riding - striking while the iron's hot - and I believe RastusCat did do so from what he wrote. You also seemed to suggest that RastusCat should have done that before the test as well, and I suspect from what RastusCat wrote he did. He appeared to did so after the test.
During the test he can't. It would invalidate the test, it is contrary to assessment procedure. There can be no coaching during a test.
As for the pass/fail snapshot being wrong for the reasons you have given - manipulation and not a true indication of skill - I would wholeheartedly agree which is why I suggested a different approach to assessing rider/driver skill.
T.W.R
26th June 2017, 14:35
Your not saying that some instructors ride as badly as some say I do? You may have riding faults yourself for all you know. A lot of motorcyclists like to have egos especially on this site and those that say they can avoid anyone who screws up no matter how close they are, really do make me laugh with how deluded they are.
Fuck off you queer cunt :finger:
You've given everyone here and the poor buggers who visit enough of your deluded tripe to have a pretty clear picture of your ability, you haven't even got a clear grasp on the basic fundamentals let alone enough capability to try clutching at making a comparison between yourself and an instructor :facepalm:
I've stated in other threads about how I ride & don't hide behind glossed up bullshit stories :yes: I ride my ride, I'm an out & out law breaker, I ride quick and have had accidents. I've got plenty of faults in my riding I'm fully aware of that......you show me someone who hasn't and if they say they're perfect...bullshit! they're blowing hot air out a hole in their head....
Then we come to your rainbow coloured world :facepalm: unfortunately for you you've got two holes in your head & the things that emanate from them is just a drone created by the vortex between your ears.
I'd love to strike you on the road sometime :blip:
T.W.R
26th June 2017, 14:52
Sorry, I didn't miss the point.
Your statement that I didn't understand what was said is in error - I believe I did.
You suggested that RastusCat should have coached the rider about his riding - striking while the iron's hot - and I believe RastusCat did do so from what he wrote. You also seemed to suggest that RastusCat should have done that before the test as well, and I suspect from what RastusCat wrote he did. He appeared to did so after the test.
During the test he can't. It would invalidate the test, it is contrary to assessment procedure. There can be no coaching during a test.
As for the pass/fail snapshot being wrong for the reasons you have given - manipulation and not a true indication of skill - I would wholeheartedly agree which is why I suggested a different approach to assessing rider/driver skill.
You need to go specsavers
The only suggestion put forward was in that sort of event the opportunity is there for educating, nothing directly aimed at Rastus at any time.
And fucking lay off the referring back to the test FFS :wacko:
You need to go specsavers
The only suggestion put forward was in that sort of event the opportunity is there for educating, nothing directly aimed at Rastus at any time.
And fucking lay off the referring back to the test FFS :wacko:
If you go back and re-read from the beginning you will see that I did ask if Rastus had taken the opportunity to discuss the rider's "near misses" both before the course and during the course and what was the rider's response. I agree that if such opportunities present themselves then they are well worth grabbing and using and discussing. I have absolutely no reason to criticise Rastus and I have not do so.
What's the issue about discussing the test?
BTW, I will choose my own optician, thank you very much!
T.W.R
26th June 2017, 15:35
If you go back and re-read from the beginning you will see that I did ask if Rastus had taken the opportunity to discuss the rider's "near misses" both before the course and during the course and what was the rider's response. I agree that if such opportunities present themselves then they are well worth grabbing and using and discussing. I have absolutely no reason to criticise Rastus and I have not do so.
What's the issue about discussing the test?
BTW, I will choose my own optician, thank you very much!
have another look at your last post you state that I'm suggesting Rastus should've done x.....x & suggest Rastus should've done X
Where I chimed in I said the use of discretion on whether one uses what the pupil has caught on film as a educational tool whether it be help them more readily identify what they're missing to put themselves in a close-call situation with others or rectify an issue they're creating of their own accord. You do realise you're dealing with peoples lives? If so then surely correcting issues or even adding the smallest bit of helpful insight or slightest bit of extra education is worth it.....one wee piece may be the difference between years of enjoyment or becoming a statistic.
If a camera catches something good or bad its a bit of information others can use. There's plenty of halfwits out there that think they'll shine in glory posting their exploits on youtube...they get plenty of views for all reasons....look at the ones posted here recently they soon get picked apart with surgical dissection. In a learning environment if a pupil has a camera & does mention incidents caught....have a look, point out errors, educate...simple. Remember people don't all learn by the same means so the more tools available the better the chance of educating more thoroughly.
The test is a side issue and wasn't relevant to was being said apart from being misinterpreted into the text of the post.
Time to making a booking then :yes:
caspernz
26th June 2017, 15:54
All this angst has left me wishing I hadn't started this whole mess.
Forgive me, fellow moto folk.
Nothing to forgive RC, the sheer folly of cassina repeatedly stating that road use is just about luck...needs to be countered with some Roadcraft reason. Even if I'm replaying an old army joke in my head, sergeant on the shooting range asking us whether we know the difference between a 0.338 and a 0.50 round? No difference if it's coming at you...:devil2: I really shouldn't say any more :ar15::ar15:
Nothing to forgive.
If discussion gives people food for thought, then all good.
Just worried in case someone turns up on one of your Ride4Ever courses - would you forgive us?
It would be eminently funny to have a group KB Ride Forever booking...now that would need to be recorded on a GoPro! :banana:
have another look at your last post you state that I'm suggesting Rastus should've done x.....x & suggest Rastus should've done X
Were you suggesting that such things could be picked up as part of the teaching situation? The way I read it that is what came across. I suggested that reading what Rastus had written suggested he had picked up on these points and they had been discussed. Personally, I would be surprised if a motorcycle instructor didn't pick up on such points, they are situations where a biker could easily put themselves in harms way.
Where I chimed in I said the use of discretion on whether one uses what the pupil has caught on film as a educational tool whether it be help them more readily identify what they're missing to put themselves in a close-call situation with others or rectify an issue they're creating of their own accord.You do realise you're dealing with peoples lives? If so then surely correcting issues or even adding the smallest bit of helpful insight or slightest bit of extra education is worth it.....one wee piece may be the difference between years of enjoyment or becoming a statistic.
I don't disagree with you. And I believe that is what was done...
If a camera catches something good or bad it's a bit of information others can use.
Yes, especially as you say in a teaching/learning situation.
There's plenty of halfwits out there that think they'll shine in glory posting their exploits on youtube...they get plenty of views for all reasons....look at the ones posted here recently they soon get picked apart with surgical dissection. In a learning environment if a pupil has a camera & does mention incidents caught....have a look, point out errors, educate...simple. Remember people don't all learn by the same means so the more tools available the better the chance of educating more thoroughly.
I agree...
The test is a side issue and wasn't relevant to was being said apart from being misinterpreted into the text of the post.
Time to making a booking then :yes:
The test, if you look at my post #79 I start by saying "I don't disagree with what you are saying" in response to your post [#78]. Yes I went on to discuss/explain the assessment practices associated with pass/fail tests, perhaps that wasn't necessary - although I felt that there had been some possible confusion several posts earlier about what was appropriate behaviour by an assessor in an assessment situation. But I don't see it as distracting from your comments in the previous post, with which I had already stated my agreement.
caseye
26th June 2017, 16:19
Nothing to forgive RC, the sheer folly of cassina repeatedly stating that road use is just about luck...needs to be countered with some Roadcraft reason. Even if I'm replaying an old army joke in my head, sergeant on the shooting range asking us whether we know the difference between a 0.338 and a 0.50 round? No difference if it's coming at you...:devil2: I really shouldn't say any more :ar15::ar15:
It would be eminently funny to have a group KB Ride Forever booking...now that would need to be recorded on a GoPro! :banana:
Now come on Be Reasonable, Pleseeeeeeeeeeee!
I doubt even Rastus would take on that lot. You'd need a wide angled lense to get all them KBérs in the frame for a start.
eldog
26th June 2017, 18:22
I dont think....... anyone on here would turn up for a KB group lesson out of fear their riding is found to be as bad as they claim mine is.
is that a challenge?
would you turn up?
no fear if my riding was worse than yours, I am always open to suggestions to improve.
eldog
26th June 2017, 18:33
I think........riding school lessons are subsidised by ACC and can only be group lessons anyway. With ACC funding only lasting so many hours for each lesson it would be unreasonable to expect the instructor to watch a video as well before or after the lesson unless maybe extra payment was made to the instructor. Volunteer IAMs instructors who do it for love and not money could be interested in analysing a video maybe.
Or do you surmise what you know.
perhaps time for you to do your own Research.....
unlikely I suppose with your previous form:corn:
caseye
26th June 2017, 18:34
is that a challenge?
would you turn up?
no fear if my riding was worse than yours, I am always open to suggestions to improve.
And he does! Improve that is. With every ride he goes on, on his todd or with a bunch of older moaning bitching has beens. I'd back ol Eldog against anything Bitch Features could produce any day of the week.
eldog
26th June 2017, 18:52
If you have exact info on how riding schools are funded feel free to correct me.
Do do it for yourself.
we are doing this for you.
rastuscat
26th June 2017, 18:59
I've been dying to say this for ages.
Sod yez all.
nzspokes
26th June 2017, 19:12
No right especially if its motorbike or car v 4WD in a head on. Why do you think they are so popular? Sitting higher up like on a motorbike in a 4WD improves your periferal vision too giving you a better chance to avoid the screw ups of others. Take one for a test drive some time. They dont corner quite as well as cars though but many today have car like suspension making them much more stable in bends than the ones made 20 years ago.
What is its Ancap rating?
scumdog
26th June 2017, 20:18
I've been dying to say this for ages.
Sod yez all.
oooh, you rotter!
rastuscat
26th June 2017, 20:30
oooh, you rotter!
It coulda bin werse
caseye
26th June 2017, 21:42
I've been dying to say this for ages.
Sod yez all.
OK. Now you've got that off of your chest.
Tell Her, to go pull her head off and shove it up her aris! Which is where I'd wager it's been for quite some time.
Have to say though, tough as nails us KBérs, didn't hurt a bit!
FJRider
26th June 2017, 23:04
sergeant on the shooting range asking us whether we know the difference between a 0.338 and a 0.50 round? No difference if it's coming at you...:devil2:
One leaves a hole you can live with ... the other doesn't ... :devil2:
Top tip ... learn to duck.
FJRider
26th June 2017, 23:09
I dont think anyone on here would turn up for a KB group lesson out of fear their riding is found to be as bad as they claim mine is.
It's only as bad as you tell us it is ... who are we to argue the point .. ??? :innocent:
FJRider
26th June 2017, 23:13
If you have exact info on how riding schools are funded feel free to correct me.
For you ... crowd funded might be possible ... maybe a give a little page ... :sunny:
FJRider
4th July 2017, 21:43
No thats them reversing into you.
I'd be sorely tempted myself ... <_<
pritch
4th July 2017, 22:18
One leaves a hole you can live with ... the other doesn't ... :devil2:
Top tip ... learn to duck.
.338 and fifty cal? Living past either could be seriously problematical, the smaller of the two fires a 250gr bullet at 3000fps.
Coupla years ago I was visiting an Australian infantry battalion at Townsville and at one point was looking at sniper rifles. Noting that they were all 7.62 I asked had they none in 338? The reply was that they did have 338s, but they were all in Afghanistan.
caspernz
5th July 2017, 15:40
.338 and fifty cal? Living past either could be seriously problematical, the smaller of the two fires a 250gr bullet at 3000fps.
Coupla years ago I was visiting an Australian infantry battalion at Townsville and at one point was looking at sniper rifles. Noting that they were all 7.62 I asked had they none in 338? The reply was that they did have 338s, but they were all in Afghanistan.
Haha, yeah the smaller caliber rips you a big hole and the larger caliber basically rips you in half...so yes your assertion is on point :devil2:
nzspokes
5th July 2017, 19:00
I dont think anyone on here would turn up for a KB group lesson out of fear their riding is found to be as bad as they claim mine is.
I would have no problem doing that. In fact I regularly ride with a KB member that checks out my riding.
caseye
5th July 2017, 19:42
I would have no problem doing that. In fact I regularly ride with a KB member that checks out my riding.
Spokes! please do not feed the trolls.
They grow bolder the more people engage them.
Ignore IT!.
Im imploring everyone, ignore the Biatch and theres'a good chance it'll go away.
If that fails, someone who isn't a mod needs to start a petition for It's extradition, I dont care where! As long as it's not here.
Akzle
5th July 2017, 21:13
I would have no problem doing that. In fact I regularly ride with a KB member that checks out my riding.
me too .
rastuscat
8th July 2017, 18:07
I went on a Gold course the other day with an instructor I hadn't worked with before. I learned a few new things.
Anyone who thinks they have nothing to learn should just buy a Go Pro.
GazzaH
8th July 2017, 18:48
Anyone who thinks they have nothing to learn should just buy a Go Pro
... and post the footage online to be critiqued.
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