Should new tyres really be that slippery!!

[Rizzo]

Hi all, first-time poster - long time reader. I am seeking some advice on new tyres. Last week I took my SV650 into the bike shop for a new set of tyres. When I picked it up the mechanic warned me to "take it easy as new tyres can be slippery". I thanked him for his warning and sage advice and hopped on my bike and rode it 20m to the nearest interseciton and stopped at the stop sign to turn right. There was nothing coming from either direction and so slowly eased the clutch out to pull forward into the middle of the road. As I got to the middle of the road the back wheel suddenly lost traction and slid out to the left. As I instictively turned into the slide to try to correct it the bike jerked back to the left, flipping me off over the front and onto the road with my bike crunching down next to me on it's left side. The road was dry and there was no visible oil etc although I wonder whether the white painted centreline caused a loss of traction. It felt like all of sudden I was riding on ice or soap or something. I picked myself and my bike up and wheeled it to the side of the road where I regained my composure before doing the walk of shame back to the bike shop to book the bike in for repairs. I honestly don't think I could have 'taken it any more easy' than I did pulling out of the intersection unless I was to get off and walk the damn thing home. I use my bike for commuting and have never been into any sort of stunts or wheel spins etc so please don't think I was some sort of idiot who tried to drop of burn out or something - I simply pulled out from the intersection and the bike whipped out from under me. I have now made an insurance claim wth the cost of repairs almost reaching the cost of my insured value of $5K and so running the risk of having the bike written off...but I loved that bike and don't want to lose it!! Can any of you experienced and knowledgable bikers out there advise me of where I stand in terms of any responsibility from the bike shop to ensure that my bike can actually be ridden on new tyres? or whether there is some reason that I am misssing that caused this to happen? The bike shop response was great in the sense that they checked I was ok and offered me short-term loaner bike, but I am still left wondering how this can happen and what I could have possibly done to avoid it. I have been riding for about 5 years, had my full license for about the last 3 years and have had the SV650 for about 2 years and never had any issues with it.
One thing that I also wonder about is that originally the bike shop owner quoted me for Conti Road Attack 2 tyres which I was happy to buy, but then when I arrived to pickup the bike he told me that they were unable to get the Road Attack tyres and so upgraded me for free to a much better and more expensive tyre - which he called a Z8 ?? I figured I was getting a great deal so thanked him for the upgrade. Could this have been why the tyres reacted the way they did?? Any replies would be greatly appreciated. The bike shop have been helpful to date and I hope the insurer doesn't sink my hope of getting my bike back. :banana:

[Motu]

How many tyres are changed each year, and how many bikes crashed as a result ? Must be in the 10's of thousands.

[Rizzo]

How many tyres are changed each year, and how many bikes crashed as a result ? Must be in the 10's of thousands.

Yeah I know, thats kind of my point! Surely something else was involved other than just new tyres. I mean to me 'take it easy on the new tyres' means don't go riding fast into corners or doing sudden acceleration or braking - rather than don't let the clutch out for the next 80kms. Crying in my beer...just saying.

[jellywrestler]

Yeah I know, thats kind of my point! Surely something else was involved other than just new tyres. I mean to me 'take it easy on the new tyres' means don't go riding fast into corners or doing sudden acceleration or braking - rather than don't let the clutch out for the next 80kms. Crying in my beer...just saying.

i picked up a guy off the road in wellington who'd just left the shop on a new bike, the shop cleaner had sprayed wax all over the bike including the tyres....
normally they're pretty good, in fact very good, did you actuall run your fingers across the tyre to see for your self how slippery they were before you rode?

[Rizzo]

i picked up a guy off the road in wellington who'd just left the shop on a new bike, the shop cleaner had sprayed wax all over the bike including the tyres....
normally they're pretty good, in fact very good, did you actuall run your fingers across the tyre to see for your self how slippery they were before you rode?

Nope can't say I did. In hindsight it would probably have been a good idea, but tbh I don't think it would have made any difference to the way I rode it, and I kind of trusted that the bike shop wouldn't let me ride off on a bike that would slide out from under me at the first intersection. Thanks.

[swbarnett]

Back in the 80s they used to coat new tyres to prolong shelf life (or so I was told). It was this coating that was slippery. It could be hell leaving cycletreads when the workshop was upstairs. Especially in the wet. The exit was a painted concrete ramp.

I could be wrong but I don't think they do that anymore. For my money the white line was likely the culprit. I've had that happen a few times. So far I've managed to stay rubber side down.

[Akzle]

tyres are made in moulds. they use a release agent to make them not stick to the mould.

a product designed to make hot rubber NOT STICK.


shoulda done a burnout to burn the shit off.


yes, they can be slippery, add some traction-free road markings and you've got... this.

glad there was no traffic to mow you down.

[sidecar bob]

It's irresponsible of the shops not to wash the mould release substance off after fitting the tyre.
Wash a new tyre with brakleen & have a look at what's on the rag once the brakleen has evaporated.

[mrchips]

Sorry to hear.

I agree... i always do a quick wipe over with some warm soapy water.

Fresh tyres & wet roads are recipe for disaster.

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[mulletman]

You might have been ok with the Contis as they are already scuffed (sort of) when new.

[Honest Andy]

It's irresponsible of the shops not to wash the mould release substance off after fitting the tyre.
Wash a new tyre with brakleen & have a look at what's on the rag once the brakleen has evaporated.
I'd be a bit hesitant to put any solvent on the tyre...
I vote Akkle, new tyre plus white line equals problem.
Probably wouldn't have happened after another few hundred metres.
Always buy tyres in fine weather and lean progressively further as they scrub in, I prefer a slow winding road with tight corners and good seal.
And no cliffs.

[haydes55]

You done fucked up. The shop is 100% not at fault. The guy warned you they were slippery, everyone knows they are slippery.

If you had of held the throttle on instead of shutting it off, you would have done a sweet drift instead of a gymnastics routine.

[sugilite]

I'd be a bit hesitant to put any solvent on the tyre...
I vote Akkle, new tyre plus white line equals problem.
Probably wouldn't have happened after another few hundred metres.
Always buy tyres in fine weather and lean progressively further as they scrub in, I prefer a slow winding road with tight corners and good seal.
And no cliffs.

I'm with bob, brake clean will not damage the tyres. Racers have one lap to scrub tyres, and in the bad old days much brake clean was expended with no damage to the tyres.

[Autech]

I had some Rosso 2's cut lose on my on my Gixxer once when I rode away steadily, I just kept the throttle open and let it do it's thing.
Within a few ks the centre was all good though it just takes steady heat and friction to burn that shit off, which it sounds like you never got the chance to do. That plus the white line equals yeehaawww and a sad SV650 owner.

If they write it off you should buy it back off them and race it :first:

[Honest Andy]

Fair enough. Brakekleen is meant to be ok for the rubber brake parts so I can see it wont harm tyres. And you've used it personally and reckon it works, so I might try it next time :niceone:
But would you still say that scrubbing them in on a road is still the best way? Especially when you have more than a lap to do it? Or do you reckon to give them a lick with the brakekleen first to get the worst of the slippery stuff off first?

[ellipsis]

The last rear I put on was a new brand for me. My usual tentative ride through town and then the 75 k ride home on highway has always been enough to have it well scuffed up enough but a hundred k's later it was still letting go a bit. It was still bloody near shiny. I sanded fuck out of it and it was cool. My girl had the same tyre put on hers and it was scrubbed in almost immediately. No rhyme nor reason to that. Funny and amazing things tyres. All that technology and weight and expectation riding on them comes down to a 50mm patch of one sticking to the road, constantly. A big ask if they have slippery shit still on them from off the shelf.

[pritch]

when I arrived to pickup the bike he told me that they were unable to get the Road Attack tyres and so upgraded me for free to a much better and more expensive tyre - which he called a Z8 ??

You are not the first to have this experience. I saw a guy dump a Blackbird having just left the shop - and he was being very careful. Thing is that the tyres are sprayed with silicone to make it easier to get them out of the mould. Silicone is about as slippery as it gets. Having seen what happened to the guy on the Blackbird I ride paranoid until I can see wear across the tyre. I even resorted to sandpaper once.

Sometimes I wonder if the bike shops shouldn't do more than just warn people, like f'rinstance clean the tyre? Then again new tyres bring in extra business.

And yes, the Metzeler Z8 is a serious upgrade over a Continental.

[Frodo]

And yes, the Metzeler Z8 is a serious upgrade over a Continental.

Others have commented on the release compound being slippery.
I'd respond to Pritch's comment about the Z8. I normally ride Continentals, but damaged my rear tyre on a trip around the South island and had to buy a Z8 as the only 180 tyre in the shop. It has a very rigid carcass and quite a hard compound, and is not great in the wet. Getting about 50% more miles, but I'll replace it before the tread is gone. Probably better on heavier bikes than mine

[EJK]

Why are these dangerous slippery tyres even allowed? The NZ gubermint should band them! Ban all tyres I say!

[Honest Andy]

Huh? Metzlers wear more on the right because of road camber? But only on the front?!? Is this with your feet up or down...?
Sorry casinna but I think you're making shit up again...

[Crasherfromwayback]

I wonder if the axel nut was done up properly as acceleration could cause the axel to shift causing the slide out. Did grease come off on the hands of poster 1 when he examined the tire? If not it would likely be grease on the road he did not see.

Crawl back under your rock.

[Grumph]

I'm with bob, brake clean will not damage the tyres. Racers have one lap to scrub tyres, and in the bad old days much brake clean was expended with no damage to the tyres.

Holden saw us doing the pre race clean off and immediately stopped us doing it for him....

His warmup laps had to be seen to be believed.

[Mike.Gayner]

I'm not sure what OP wants to hear - new tyres are slippery. The shop warned you they're slippery. You still slipped over on them. There's only so much one can do.

[Zedder]

Dog bowler - trolling in disguise!

[M.H]

I'm not sure what OP wants to hear - new tyres are slippery. The shop warned you they're slippery. You still slipped over on them. There's only so much one can do.

I dont think they were expecting them to be that slippy, maybe someone else has sprayed something on them. Ive only ridden on brand new tyres twice and cant say I noticed them being that slippy

[YellowDog]

I'm not sure what OP wants to hear - new tyres are slippery. The shop warned you they're slippery. You still slipped over on them. There's only so much one can do.

I agree it was definitely pilot error :yes:

Another lesson for said pilot: Even partially warn tyres can slip in such situations. After 20m, the tyres will be stone cold and it is not until they have warmed up significantly that you should expect some degree of reasonable grip around bends and when moving off :yes:

[Maha]

''The back wheel suddenly lost traction and slid out to the left. As I instinctively turned into the slide to try to correct it the bike jerked back to the left, flipping me off over the front and onto the road with my bike crunching down next to me on it's left side''

:killingme Sorry, don't mean to laugh but the video image in my head is screamingly funny.

When a bike does shit like that, instinctively you should let it do it's own thing, there is very good chance it will right itself.

[Rizzo]

I agree it was definitely pilot error :yes:

Another lesson for said pilot: Even partially warn tyres can slip in such situations. After 20m, the tyres will be stone cold and it is not until they have warmed up significantly that you should expect some degree of reasonable grip around bends and when moving off :yes:

Thanks YellowDog. When you get the time can you please explain to me how a rider is meant to be able to 'warm up the tyres' when the bike slides out from underneath him after 25m? Short of taking off my clothes and spooning them on the roadside that is! Still crying in another beer :drinkup:

[Zedder]

The last time I bought tyres at Cycletreads Akld, 3 months ago, Dave made a point of telling me to "ride around the carpark a couple of times" before heading off.

I'd never been told that before although the sales receipt has the caution about tyres needing to be scrubbed in.

[YellowDog]

Thanks YellowDog. When you get the time can you please explain to me how a rider is meant to be able to 'warm up the tyres' when the bike slides out from underneath him after 25m? Short of taking off my clothes and spooning them on the roadside that is! Still crying in another beer :drinkup:

You're welcome :)

Put it down to inexpensive experience. Cold tyres don't grip. Cold new tyres, with the oil like residue coating, grip even less. The next time you buy tyres, you will be more careful. Your description of the incident indicates that you should have moved off more gently than you did.

I got caught in a similar way myself a few years back. My usual ride home was clogged up with traffic, so instead of the tyres being warm, they were still cold. This was after around 300 metres. I pulled out into the roundabout and quickly found myself giving a fairly reasonable rendition of ' Lord of the Dance', before hitting the deck.

I bet you won't repeat the same mistake next time you get new tyres :no:

Good luck and I hope the repair bill is not too severe :2thumbsup

[swbarnett]

I agree it was definitely pilot error :yes:

Another lesson for said pilot: Even partially warn tyres can slip in such situations. After 20m, the tyres will be stone cold and it is not until they have warmed up significantly that you should expect some degree of reasonable grip around bends and when moving off :yes:
Surely that only applies to the track? A lot of commutes won't put much heat into the tyre at all unless they're way under-inflated.

[Honest Andy]

The really cunty part of this story is the repair bill. We've all had near misses and small crashes like falling off in a driveway and shit, and learned from them. But the cost!!! Just a ding in a tank or muffler, broken fairing or indicators, busted side cover... fuck it can add up!
Not to mention all your mates laughing at you for ages, or until another mate does something dumb...

[Autech]

Not to mention all your mates laughing at you for ages, or until another mate does something dumb...

I had a mate who borrowed my bike to race then crashed it. Until such a time as I crash one of his I'll always have that over him lol.

Just wondering of this was the OPs first time on new tyres? If so just wondering how many ks riding he would have actually done, i know I went through at least 4 lots of tyres just on my learners/restricted.


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[KawasakiKid]

I wonder if the axel nut was done up properly as acceleration could cause the axel to shift causing the slide out. Did grease come off on the hands of poster 1 when he examined the tire? If not it would likely be grease on the road he did not see.

What sort of crap is this



I'm not sure what OP wants to hear - new tyres are slippery. The shop warned you they're slippery. You still slipped over on them. There's only so much one can do.


Great reply, the OP make a mistake, unfortunately expensive and seems to want to blame others



Surely that only applies to the track? A lot of commutes won't put much heat into the tyre at all unless they're way under-inflated.


Tyres heat up well on the road at correct pressure, obviously a lot more on the track but modern tyres are great, just be careful for the first 10-20km or so on new rubber

[pritch]

I once bought some new tyres from ANZA in Palmerston North. The parts man warned me that the tyres might be slippery. When I just nodded and told him I was aware of that, he was concerned I hadn't taken notice of his warning. He told me of a Harley rider who had recently bought a tyre, had received the warning, he then went to make a dramatic exit but wound up on his arse in the street right outside the shop.

I explained that I was well aware of the problem and that I was about to ride carefully to the Saddle Road to sort the matter.

Still, with all the warnings in person or on sales dockets, we might be forgiven for wondering why the shops don't clean the tyres.

[Honest Andy]

Still, with all the warnings in person or on sales dockets, we might be forgiven for wondering why the shops don't clean the tyres.

Yeah. Or why there isn't a product called 'CRC Tyre scrub' or some proprietary sander that fits onto a dynamic balancer or something.
One of the most frustrating rides we ever do is on new tyres, taking it easy on a winding road on a sunny day... :wait:

[YellowDog]

Surely that only applies to the track? A lot of commutes won't put much heat into the tyre at all unless they're way under-inflated.

Yes, really :yes:

Please don't be the next victim :no:

[caseye]

Crasher! The Fuckwit didn't listen! Tell her again will you, please.

[pritch]

With all the new tyres I have had on my bikes I have never found them slippery when riding on a dry road which is what I only ride on until the shiny surface on them has worn off.

Your reputation suggests you give the tyres a good wipe with dog skin to remove the release agent. Skin still attached to dog of course.:rolleyes:

[Akzle]

With all the new tyres I have had on my bikes I have never found them slippery when riding on a dry road which is what I only ride on until the shiny surface on them has worn off.

no-one gives a shit about anything you say. fuck off.

[Ocean1]

I explained that I was well aware of the problem and that I was about to ride carefully to the Saddle Road to sort the matter.

Saddle Road = gravel?

[pritch]

Saddle Road = gravel?

At the time it was a mixture, seal in an advanced state of disrepair. Subsequently it was resealed, I have no idea what the current state of the road is, haven't been there for years.

I have a new tyre on the back now, with impressive chicken strips, it needs a trip to Whangamomona to make it respectable. There will still be chicken strips but hopefully only about half the size of what's there now.

[roogazza]

At the time it was a mixture, seal in an advanced state of disrepair. Subsequently it was resealed, I have no idea what the current state of the road is, haven't been there for years.

I have a new tyre on the back now, with impressive chicken strips, it needs a trip to Whangamomona to make it respectable. There will still be chicken strips but hopefully only about half the size of what's there now.

331159:lol::lol:

[old slider]

331159:lol::lol:

Oi, I am quite comfortable with my tyre wear looking like that.

[Ocean1]

At the time it was a mixture, seal in an advanced state of disrepair. Subsequently it was resealed, I have no idea what the current state of the road is, haven't been there for years.

I have a new tyre on the back now, with impressive chicken strips, it needs a trip to Whangamomona to make it respectable. There will still be chicken strips but hopefully only about half the size of what's there now.

Bastards are "fixing" far too many of those roads nowadays.

Remains a good way to un-polish tyres as the bike behaves normally, (for gravel), no nasty surprises.

Getting there has become the challenge. That, and remembering how to turn the TC off. :laugh:

[KawasakiKid]

That, and remembering how to turn the TC off. :laugh:

Easier to ride a bike with no TC, an H2 perhaps :laugh:

[Mike.Gayner]

With all the new tyres I have had on my bikes I have never found them slippery when riding on a dry road which is what I only ride on until the shiny surface on them has worn off.

No one here believes for a second that you've ridden enough to go through a set of tires. Please just do the right thing and fuck off.

[swbarnett]

Yes, really :yes:

Please don't be the next victim :no:
Not likely. I've lost count of the number of tyres I've gone through over the years. Probably averaged at least four a year since the early '80s. Compared to tyres back then modern new ones are actually reasonably sticky. I've never had a problem on any new tyres. Even the old, slippery rubber.

I've never really noticed any difference between cold and warm tyres either. Maybe it's just that modern tyres are a vast improvement on what I started on (that and the fact that I've never been a Rossi wannabe).

[quickbuck]

Saddle Road = gravel?
Not these days...

That said, the best advice I got was go on a shingle road.
The tyre burys itself in a straight line, removes all the stuff they put on it and you know you have no traction from chemical grip anyway (that is how a road tyre works).

[T.W.R]

Just because I ride slower than most on here it does not mean my tires never wear out..

Bet the damn things have gone off before you replace them....probably as hard as buggery :lol:

The boys at Pitlane chch when they were still going at Manchester St used to wipe new tires down with brake cleaner all the time just from the fact they were sick of know-it-all chumps launching their bikes down the road because of fresh tires & then coming back squealing that it was the shops fault :brick:

[old slider]

Bet the damn things have gone off before you replace them....probably as hard as buggery :lol:

The boys at Pitlane chch when they were still going at Manchester St used to wipe new tires down with brake cleaner all the time just from the fact they were sick of know-it-all chumps launching their bikes down the road because of fresh tires & then coming back squealing that it was the shops fault :brick:


How do you tell if they have gone off?

The standard 5 yrs then chuck em out still apply today?

edit: Bugger, I probably should have checked the search function first, so Akzle don't give me a telling off, lol.



http://motorcycleinfo.org/2008/06/motorcycle-tires-age/

[caseye]

How do you tell if they have gone off?

The standard 5 yrs then chuck em out still apply today?

edit: Bugger, I probably should have checked the search function first, so Akzle don't give me a telling off, lol.



http://motorcycleinfo.org/2008/06/motorcycle-tires-age/

Who? Na man, Dave's not here!

[SVboy]

I have a worse story. I bought a brand new Kawasaki ZX6r in 2008. I rode about 8-9 Kms from the dealers to town, to buy a radar detector mount. Riding very gingerly and giving the Bridgestone BT15s of death all due respect. After about 3-4 Kms I turned right at an intersection and found myself horizontally in the far gutter, bike beside me! My fault somehow, expensive lesson. Cost the insurance co 7K and me my excess. Got the bike back all repaired and quickly got it to the 1000kms service point. The night before I was due to take it in, I was putting it on my j hook bike lift, I slipped and the bike fell over into my bucket. Another 7k and excess. I decided soon after that Kawasakis and me just were not to be! Sold bike and stand!

[Owl]

It's irresponsible of the shops not to wash the mould release substance off after fitting the tyre.
Wash a new tyre with brakleen & have a look at what's on the rag once the brakleen has evaporated.


I'm with bob, brake clean will not damage the tyres.

I'm with Bob too. Been doing this to the tyres I've fitted in the last 9 years and never had one slip. Except the day I picked up my 1290 from the dealer.:eek5: Should've gone down there armed with the Brakleen.

[Frodo]

I actually thought the tire was faulty when it started to wear to one side but I was told this by someone else that it was due to road camber.

Its a mix of road camber, plus taking right hand curves quicker, including exiting roundabouts quicker
http://www.cambriantyres.co.uk/motorcycle-tyre-wears-more-on-right-side/

[Honest Andy]

Its a mix of road camber, plus taking right hand curves quicker, including exiting roundabouts quicker
http://www.cambriantyres.co.uk/motorcycle-tyre-wears-more-on-right-side/

Really? I myself take it pretty easy while going round the roundabout, but use much more throttle when I'm exiting. But I exit roundabouts to the left... where do you go...?

[caseye]

Its a mix of road camber, plus taking right hand curves quicker, including exiting roundabouts quicker
http://www.cambriantyres.co.uk/motorcycle-tyre-wears-more-on-right-side/

Frodo, please feeding strays only means they "Come Back"!
It knows not of which it speaks.

[rastuscat]

Going back to the OP, if it's hard to understand, it's probably because the riders perception is slightly different to reality.

Power applied overcame the grip of the tyre. Either the tyre was too slippery, or the power applied was too much.

New set of Metzler Z01s for me last week. Rode the bike conservatively, but then, I normally do anyway. No problems.

[Owl]

Rode the bike conservatively, but then, I normally do anyway. No problems.

That would seem to suggest that if you ride conservatively, you won't have a problem? Because that's just not true.

[Honest Andy]

That would seem to suggest that if you ride conservatively, you won't have a problem? Because that's just not true.

Fair enough. But I think rastuscat means 'more conservatively' than accelerating from a standstill while turning fast enough to have a minor highside before even getting to the other side of the intersection, all within 20 metres of the tyre shop...

[R650R]

Many moons ago I had new rear tyre put on the FZR250R. Busy afternoon traffic and not many gaps in the traffic.
Pulling out of old Jack Burn motors on carlyle st gave it bit extra power (in relative terms lol) as it was one of those steeply cambered roads making it an uphill type takeoff.
I then proceeded to gracefully lowside in spectacular style in front of cop car. Thankfully this was back in the day where he just laughed hysterically and drove off after I got my shit out of the way without feeling the need to ticket me.

Over the years i've found most tyres are not so bad these days, maybe its with smaller consignments getting dirtied and scuffed around in courier vans taking bit of the muck off.

But yeah caution always required, I'll often drop the tyre pressure slightly for very short period too.
The DR650 is a hoot to scrub tyres in. Often I forget and you just supermotard drfit around the first roundabout till it gently hooks up and job done, well on that side of tyre anyway :)

[caspernz]

Going back to the OP, if it's hard to understand, it's probably because the riders perception is slightly different to reality.

Power applied overcame the grip of the tyre. Either the tyre was too slippery, or the power applied was too much.

New set of Metzler Z01s for me last week. Rode the bike conservatively, but then, I normally do anyway. No problems.

Most likely scenario described above.

Haven't had an issue of new tyres being overly slippery in the last couple of decades really. Just treat new tyres like a new girlfriend, start off cautious before getting freaky...:innocent::shutup:

[T.W.R]

Was told by a couple of different shops I'd dealt with in the 80s to be cautious for the 1st couple hundred kms with new tires but I soon overcame that scenario by actually going for a decent long ride after getting the tires fitted and then at least the tires would get properly heated up and get a nice even scrub up; I'd arrange for fitting to be done in the mornings and then head-out for the afternoon somewhere...always worked a treat and it's basically the same principle as a new bike....If you want to get to know it properly make the first ride a good long bugger :niceone:
Only ever once fell into the trap of experiencing really slippery fresh tires and that was a one off experiment with some cheap arse Cheng Shins because they were using a Yokohama pattern that wasn't available any more......soon found out why they got the nick-name chin slicks

[Cosmik de Bris]

I haven't noticed a problem with new tyres myself but how do you people who scrub tyres scrub the sides? I mean how can you take it easy when you are on the edge of the tyre?

Cheers

[Cosmik de Bris]

Was told by a couple of different shops I'd dealt with in the 80s to be cautious for the 1st couple hundred kms with new tires but I soon overcame that scenario by actually going for a decent long ride after getting the tires fitted and then at least the tires would get properly heated up and get a nice even scrub up; I'd arrange for fitting to be done in the mornings and then head-out for the afternoon somewhere...always worked a treat and it's basically the same principle as a new bike....If you want to get to know it properly make the first ride a good long bugger :niceone:
Only ever once fell into the trap of experiencing really slippery fresh tires and that was a one off experiment with some cheap arse Cheng Shins because they were using a Yokohama pattern that wasn't available any more......soon found out why they got the nick-name chin slicks

Those old Cheng Shin things were awful, they felt like soap. An old mate of mine crashed really badly on those just cruising. I think they are better these days but I wouldn't risk it.

Cheers

[T.W.R]

Those old Cheng Shin things were awful, they felt like soap. An old mate of mine crashed really badly on those just cruising. I think they are better these days but I wouldn't risk it.

Cheers

Once bitten twice shy....I'd rather run my tires to the carcass rather than fit them again; imitating Ivan Mauger using a 240kg roadbike isn't a pleasant experience....may have looked spectacular to on lookers but wasn't something I'd like to go through again :lol:

[caspernz]

I haven't noticed a problem with new tyres myself but how do you people who scrub tyres scrub the sides? I mean how can you take it easy when you are on the edge of the tyre?

Cheers

Use a belt sander. Start with 120 grit, then move to 360 after the first cut...:eek:

Nah, just ride with due restraint. My approach is to plan for a relaxed ride along a twisty bit of road, then keep increasing lean angles until the shiny surface is gone. Haven't had any real problems myself in recent years, less slippery mould release agent must be used nowadays.

[scumdog]

Use a belt sander. Start with 120 grit, then move to 360 after the first cut...:eek:

Nah, just ride with due restraint. My approach is to plan for a relaxed ride along a twisty bit of road, then keep increasing lean angles until the shiny surface is gone. Haven't had any real problems myself in recent years, less slippery mould release agent must be used nowadays.

I take the wheel off and get my local tyre man to fit the new tyre I have bought.

And on getting home before refitting the wheel I wipe down all the tread with Prepsol. (Or Dulon thinners at a pinch).

Certainly takes the gloss of the tread!:niceone:

[caspernz]

I take the wheel off and get my local tyre man to fit the new tyre I have bought.

And on getting home before refitting the wheel I wipe down all the tread with Prepsol. (Or Dulon thinners at a pinch).

Certainly takes the gloss of the tread!:niceone:

So taking a tyre from my stash, comparing it to the one fitted to bike at present...

331184

This is more of a visual thing than an actual hindrance to traction, at least that's been my experience...

Some of you will just focus on the garage carpet, but hey it was in there when we bought the house!

[old slider]

So taking a tyre from my stash, comparing it to the one fitted to bike at present...

331184

This is more of a visual thing than an actual hindrance to traction, at least that's been my experience...

Some of you will just focus on the garage carpet, but hey it was in there when we bought the house!

To me it looks like you need to find more left handers, lol

[caspernz]

To me it looks like you need to find more left handers, lol

Haha, yeah the visual is kinda funny. The dusty stuff is from the driveway, that isn't a 2 inch chicken strip...:laugh:

[old slider]

Haha, yeah the visual is kinda funny. The dusty stuff is from the driveway, that isn't a 2 inch chicken strip...:laugh:


I didn't think so, lol, This old mans chicken strips are pretty wide, I havnt even scrapped my foot pegs yet.

[Akzle]

. Just treat new tyres like a new girlfriend,


....If you want to get to know it properly make the first ride a good long bugger :niceone:


:killingme .

[T.W.R]

:killingme .

:facepalm: least you get know how it's going to handle when things are warmed up and sticky ;)

[Honest Andy]

Watch out for skid marks...

[old slider]

:facepalm: least you get know how it's going to handle when things are warmed up and sticky ;)


So where back to knowing when are they too old and need throwing out. lol

when young or fairly new getting warmed up and sticky didn't take long, but when its old it takes forever to warm up and most of the sticky has gone.

[caspernz]

:facepalm: least you get know how it's going to handle when things are warmed up and sticky ;)


So where back to knowing when are they too old and need throwing out. lol

when young or fairly new getting warmed up and sticky didn't take long, but when its old it takes forever to warm up and most of the sticky has gone.

Somewhere in here is a joke about how the girlfriend turns into her mother, given the passage of time...but I'm too innocent to go there :innocent:

[T.W.R]

So where back to knowing when are they too old and need throwing out. lol

when young or fairly new getting warmed up and sticky didn't take long, but when its old it takes forever to warm up and most of the sticky has gone.

When they're past their best they get a bit frayed around the edges, cracks start to appear & no matter how hard you try you can't get the buggers to warm to the occasion :rolleyes:


but I'm too innocent to go there :innocent:

Pleading that around here wont work ;)

[old slider]

When they're past their best they get a bit frayed around the edges, cracks start to appear & no matter how hard you try you can't get the buggers to warm to the occasion :rolleyes:



Pleading that around here wont work ;)


Lol, its even worse if you try to use the back roads.

[GazzaH]

Is he talking about tyres or women?

[T.W.R]

Lol, its even worse if you try to use the back roads.

Take heed of this :yes:


Watch out for skid marks...

[pritch]

I haven't noticed a problem with new tyres myself but how do you people who scrub tyres scrub the sides? I mean how can you take it easy when you are on the edge of the tyre?

Cheers

I usually use a route that contains winding and or hill roads and do the outward journey at a conservative pace. The trip home is done a little less gently and although there are still generous chicken strips, by the time I get home enough of the tyre shows wear that I can just ride normally from then on.

I don't know how long this takes, maybe 45 minutes.

[AllanB]

I usually use a route that contains winding and or hill roads and do the outward journey at a conservative pace. The trip home is done a little less gently and although there are still generous chicken strips, by the time I get home enough of the tyre shows wear that I can just ride normally from then on.

I don't know how long this takes, maybe 45 minutes.

I've applied the above for 36 years of riding and never had a issue.

I'ts all about getting heat into the tyres.

[YellowDog]

I've applied the above for 36 years of riding and never had a issue.

I'ts all about getting heat into the tyres.

This what I have been trying to get across :yes:

[rastuscat]

Some figure 8s at low speed gets rid of the Silicon fairly quickly.

Plenty of low speed lean angle.

[Honest Andy]

figure of eights as per YellowDog's avitar...?

[MarkH]

I've never had a problem with new tyres, never found them to be particularly slippery.

I do take it a bit easy for the first hundred kms - start braking a bit earlier, accelerate a bit more gently and slow a bit more before entering corners. But otherwise I just ride on the tyres and they scrub in just fine as I go. I usually ride familiar roads like bike shop to home, home to work, work back to home. One day of home to work to home again is 70km which is enough to mostly scrub in a new tyre, a second day and the tyres are just fine. By the third day of going to work I'm going through the corners a bit faster to get more lean angle to scrub in the sides more and it is all feeling fine.

I don't recall ever having the slightest moment of tyre slip due to new tyres.
Currently going with Michelin PR4GT tyres but I've used Bridgestone T30 tyres as well also with no problem.
When I had the Burgman 400 (when I was riding around Auckland city) I used Bridgestone hoops and Metzler tyres with no issues.

In the description of events on the OP I was surprised at someone taking it very easy and losing traction, maybe new tyres + painted road marking can be enough to explain that? This could be more a case of understanding best technique for dealing with painted lines on the road than dealing with new tyres. I always try to avoid riding along the painted lines, preferring to quickly cross the lines to have the length of time with tyres on the paint as short as possible so that any slip is for a brief moment only.

[scumdog]

Watch out for skid marks...


Is HE back on this forum??:laugh:

[Gremlin]

Depends on the tyre. Sports tyres are more prone to losing grip through heat cycles than say, touring tyres.

I remember running Pirelli Scorpion Syncs circa 2008-2010. Those buggers felt real weird for 10-20km as I slowly weaved my way to more grip. Pilot Road 3/4 now are pretty good straight out of the shop. Dual purpose tyres almost always need a good gravel scrub before they're good to go. Even 1000km of road doesn't make them feel as happy as tearing up and down some gravel throwing in some good hard braking in deep gravel.

[eldog]

''The back wheel suddenly lost traction and slid out to the left. When a bike does shit like that, instinctively you should let it do it's own thing, there is very good chance it will right itself.

Letting the bike do its own thing ok,
then what should a rider do with the throttle and clutch?
while the bike corrects itself?

does it depend on the situation?

what sort of response does a bike do, given different rider input?

will it depend on the tyre?, tyre/road temp, road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal

some difference would be found on bike size/weight and the design, size, construction of the tyre?

[G4L4XY]

That's crazy. Guy forks out for a brand new set of tyres. Then within half an hour or so he's potentially written off his bike. Poor guy.

[Maha]

Letting the bike do its own thing ok,
then what should a rider do with the throttle and clutch?
while the bike corrects itself?

does it depend on the situation?

what sort of response does a bike do, given different rider input?

will it depend on the tyre?, tyre/road temp, road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal

some difference would be found on bike size/weight and the design, size, construction of the tyre?

You will have less than a nano second to decide what to, no time to over think things. Instinct in any of the situations that you provide (road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal) is to 'do not panic'. The thread started did by trying to incorrectly correct his dilemma and ended up on the road with a less than pretty bike.

One wet cold day riding two up on the bike that you now own, I had four slips from the rear and one two wheeled slide, when you bought that bike, any sign of bike V road?

Construction of tyre? :laugh:

[ellipsis]

That's crazy. Guy Forks out for a brand new set of tyres. Then within half an hour or so he's potentially written off his bike. Poor guy.

...that's karma for trying to blow up parliament...he lost more than his bike though, they hung him, didn't they?...

[Cosmik de Bris]

Use a belt sander. Start with 120 grit, then move to 360 after the first cut...:eek:

Nah, just ride with due restraint. My approach is to plan for a relaxed ride along a twisty bit of road, then keep increasing lean angles until the shiny surface is gone. Haven't had any real problems myself in recent years, less slippery mould release agent must be used nowadays.

That's basically what I do but I haven't noticed modern tyres to be slippery but I do have Supercorsas. Maybe some of the cheaper brands are the problem.

Cheers

[eldog]

You will have less than a nano second to decide what to, no time to over think things. Instinct in any of the situations that you provide (road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal) is to 'do not panic'. The thread started did by trying to incorrectly correct his dilemma and ended up on the road with a less than pretty bike.

One wet cold day riding two up on the bike that you now own, I had four slips from the rear and one two wheeled slide, when you bought that bike, any sign of bike V road?

Construction of tyre? :laugh:


not panic is good advice. (i didnt)

if OP incorrectly tried to correct his dilemma, then apart from not panic, and try and let the bike do its thing. What else could someone in that position have done.

keep the same input on the throttle/clutch as at the start of the event?

try and use the clutch to feather the drive to the rear wheel?

Construction of tyre - does this have 2 areas of different rubber compounds, is it sports shaped more rounded? or flat like those on the larger HD? does this have an effect.
Stiffer tyres vs those on offroad type bikes - say a VeeStrom or a DR 650

does anyone know or care?

immaculate :)

[GrayWolf]

New set of Metzler Z01s for me last week. Rode the bike conservatively, but then, I normally do anyway. No problems.


You can take the man out of the Popo. You can't take the Popo out of the man. ;)

[oldiebutagoody]

My money is on greasy hands being all over the tyre as it was fitted. I base that on the only constant I have seen over years of getting tyres fitted. There's always greasy hand marks on the rims and forks when I get it back, and a number of times I have thought to myself that I hope his hands stayed away from my new tread.

Well, that's my intuition on the OP's dilemma, compounded with a little inexperience, perhaps a little lack of discipline of the wrist given the situation. Probably just the perfect storm......

[Maha]

not panic is good advice. (i didnt)

if OP incorrectly tried to correct his dilemma, then apart from not panic, and try and let the bike do its thing. What else could someone in that position have done.

keep the same input on the throttle/clutch as at the start of the event?

try and use the clutch to feather the drive to the rear wheel?

Construction of tyre - does this have 2 areas of different rubber compounds, is it sports shaped more rounded? or flat like those on the larger HD? does this have an effect.
Stiffer tyres vs those on offroad type bikes - say a VeeStrom or a DR 650

does anyone know or care?

immaculate :)

Op said ''the back wheel suddenly lost traction and slid out to the left. As I instictively turned into the slide to try to correct it the bike''.
The result of his instinct was ''jerked back to the left, flipping me off over the front and onto the road with my bike crunching down next to me on it's left side''

Turning into a slide probably means he has watched a lot of speedway.

A slip or slide can happen at anytime on the road, on any tyre. Knowing not to grab shit and pull/twist when it does will more than likely allow you to buy a beer later and laugh about it. The front wheel works like a gyroscope in that, it is free to alter in direction, working against this force will often end in a sad face.

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking. One on tar seal and one in gravel.

[ellipsis]

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[Owl]

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking.

I bet there was no time to panic once you woke up?:whistle:

[Maha]

I bet there was no time to panic once you woke up?:whistle:

Having a Chuck Norris action figure cable tied to the front of the bike helps. :eek:

[MarkW]

Letting the bike do its own thing ok,
then what should a rider do with the throttle and clutch?
while the bike corrects itself?

does it depend on the situation?

what sort of response does a bike do, given different rider input?

will it depend on the tyre?, tyre/road temp, road condition wet, oily, tar bleed, gravel, normal

some difference would be found on bike size/weight and the design, size, construction of the tyre?

The OP described a reasonably typical highside. All be it happening at a pretty low speed.

A highside, in general terms, occurs when a loss of traction at the rear wheel normally caused by more acceleration than the traction available makes the rear tyre move sideways so that it is no longer following the front wheel. If the acceleration forces are removed before both wheels are pointing in the same direction then the sudden grip at the wider rear tyre will make the rear of the motorcycle try and overtake the front but with a sideways deflection. And that is when things get messy. The bigger the deflection and the faster the grip regain the greater the forces that go into the highside.

My first highside happened from a standing start from a muddy gutter on the side of SH1 in Orewa on a Suzuki GT550 in 1975. Sudden acceleration covered the tyre in mud whilst the bike moved forward onto the tar seal. The sharp left turn onto the tar seal at the same time made the rear tyre slide a long way right until I had worn through the mud. At which point the tyre gripped and over the handlebars I went. At about 5kph. Old motorcycles had lots of rigid sticky out bits and so apart from hugely damaged pride there was very little damage to the motorcycle. Which I fixed myself.

The theory of how to correct from a highside is to NOT remove the cause of the slide [the excessive acceleration for the traction available] abruptly but to try and control/minimise the sideways movement of the rear wheel so that when traction at the rear wheel resumes both of the wheels are facing in the same direction. On the road this is very hard to practice. And mistakes will be costly.

Since 1975 I have done a very large number of kilometres on a motorcycle. I haven’t highsided again. But I spent a lot of my early riding time riding [for those days] large road bikes on bumpy grass paddocks chasing my mates on their big road bikes. Indicators, mirrors and all expensive bits either removed or loose enough to be there but to rotate on the handlebars when the handlebars hit the ground. Speeds were not high – generally under 40kph but the sideways time was enormous and drops were frequent until one learnt what not to do and then evolved the technique into what to do. I still have a trail bike and feet up rear wheel slides coming out of a corner on my lifestyle block are good fun.

My current road motorcycles are relatively low on horsepower but are still more than capable of breaking the back end free on many of my local unsealed roads. So, subject to traffic, horseriders and my mood the Honda and the BMW both have regular tail out sessions. Sometimes the fronts wash as well.

The secret to keeping control?

Stay relaxed, look where you want to go, use weight through the footpegs, body movement and reflexes to bring things back to where you want them very smoothly.

I have had the same Honda motorcycle [as one of the 4 motorcycles that I own and ride] now for more than 25 years in one form or another. It has been set up to be very stable and predictable and to give me huge amounts of feedback as to what is going on where the tyres meet the road. Some of the road surfaces here in the Far North are not good and slick when wet [or melted in the summer] patches are everywhere.

I like the challenges of riding smoothly in the wet and slides on the slick bits do happen from time to time. I try to make sure that if I do have to ride over a slick bit that it is not enormous and allow the slide to happen, using the predictable grip of my carefully chosen tyres with very accurate pressures to progressive reduce the slide when the slick patch comes to an end. Once again, stay relaxed, look where you want to go, use weight through the footpegs, body movement and reflexes to bring things back to where you want them very smoothly.

Instinct when you are starting your riding on a motorcycle, is to completely remove the cause of the slide immediately. Training yourself to NOT do this takes time, effort and may cost both $ and bruises if you get it wrong. But every GP rider spends a lot of time sideways on an offroad motorcycle in an offroad situation for a reason.

And it’s fun as well.

[Crasherfromwayback]

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking. One on tar seal and one in gravel.

You should start a rider training program! Or...not.

[Maha]

You should start a rider training program! Or...not.

This a survival skills thread and answering a questions sharing a personal viewpoint from past experience's is acceptable. Juvenile quips on the other hand, just highlights your immaturity.

Do have anything constructive on the subject to add?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Do have anything constructive on the subject to add?

Yep. You're talking shit.

[BMWST?]

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking. One on tar seal and one in gravel.

many moons ago i used to do front wheel lock ups on my cb900 for fun....apparently a decent front wheel lock up leaves a kinda nike woosh mark on the roadway.I used to let the front brake of very soon afer the handlbars started to turn . Never did leave a decent skid mark(or bike parts) on the roadway tho

[Maha]

many moons ago i used to do front wheel lock ups on my cb900 for fun....apparently a decent front wheel lock up leaves a kinda nike woosh mark on the roadway.I used to let the front brake of very soon afer the handlbars started to turn tho Never did leave a decent skid mark(or bike parts) on the raodway tho

I wouldn't be game enough to even attempt that, the end result would quite probably be me somewhere in front the bike. In saying that, I use both the front and rear brakes (sometimes effectively together) when riding, it's a contentious subject, but it works for me.

[MarkW]

A front wheel wash is scary but I have survived two by not panicking. One on tar seal and one in gravel.

In my past life, on Rider Training Courses run at Manfeild Raceway, one of the OPTIONAL exercises that attenders could try involved the plastic lid off a 2 litre icecream container.

The lid was placed on the tar sealed flat ground some 20 metres in front of the student and their motorcycle. The student rode forward [they chose the speed] and started braking before the plastic lid. As the braking front wheel moved onto the plastic lid the front wheel generally locked as the traction level between the lid and the track surface was very low. So the motorcycle front wheel was now locked. The student could leave it locked until the lid wore out at which point the tyre was back on the track and normal traction resumed,
or things started to go pear shaped at which point a simple easing of the front brake had the front wheel back onto the good track surface and normal traction resumed,
or the student ignored everything that they had just talked about and chosen to do and crashed.

The normal ratio was about 50% of attendees were game enough to try the exercise and of those who did try 75% managed result one, 24% result 2 and the remaining 1% chose option 3. If option 3 was chosen there was a chocolate fish awarded to compensate for the scratches that generally resulted.

A further exercise done on one of my very early [as in 1970’s] trail bikes was to ride steadily across a dead flat nicely grassed paddock sitting as far back on the seat as possible and at a steady [slowish] speed in second gear. The front brake was then applied smoothly until the front wheel locked, power was kept on firmly so that a reasonable constant speed was maintained. The objective was to maintain balance and stability and to travel as far as possible with the front wheel locked. Again if things started to go pear shaped, releasing the front brake had normal operations resume. And if the rider did make a complete hash of things then as they were sitting right at the back of the seat they simply stepped off and the bike went down. Which is why a trail bike was used. One of my friends managed over 100 metres with the front wheel locked solid. As he couldn’t repeat the result with regularity we all told him that his excellent result was a fluke. But he could regularly manage a 50 metre lockup.

[Maha]

In my past life, on Rider Training Courses run at Manfeild Raceway, one of the OPTIONAL exercises that attenders could try involved the plastic lid off a 2 litre icecream container.

The lid was placed on the tar sealed flat ground some 20 metres in front of the student and their motorcycle. The student rode forward [they chose the speed] and started braking before the plastic lid. As the braking front wheel moved onto the plastic lid the front wheel generally locked as the traction level between the lid and the track surface was very low. So the motorcycle front wheel was now locked. The student could leave it locked until the lid wore out at which point the tyre was back on the track and normal traction resumed,
or things started to go pear shaped at which point a simple easing of the front brake had the front wheel back onto the good track surface and normal traction resumed,
or the student ignored everything that they had just talked about and chosen to do and crashed.

The normal ratio was about 50% of attendees were game enough to try the exercise and of those who did try 75% managed result one, 24% result 2 and the remaining 1% chose option 3. If option 3 was chosen there was a chocolate fish awarded to compensate for the scratches that generally resulted.

A further exercise done on one of my very early [as in 1970’s] trail bikes was to ride steadily across a dead flat nicely grassed paddock sitting as far back on the seat as possible and at a steady [slowish] speed in second gear. The front brake was then applied smoothly until the front wheel locked, power was kept on firmly so that a reasonable constant speed was maintained. The objective was to maintain balance and stability and to travel as far as possible with the front wheel locked. Again if things started to go pear shaped, releasing the front brake had normal operations resume. And if the rider did make a complete hash of things then as they were sitting right at the back of the seat they simply stepped off and the bike went down. Which is why a trail bike was used. One of my friends managed over 100 metres with the front wheel locked solid. As he couldn’t repeat the result with regularity we all told him that his excellent result was a fluke. But he could regularly manage a 50 metre lockup.

I would have given that a go Mark, but on your. :niceone:
The gravel front wheel wash me was going downhill coming into a road works area at Whale bay. Luckily for me there was a rest area dead ahead which is where the bike went once the front tyre had given up on the 'plastic lid'. Anne was on the back and she heard the tyre having a disagreement with the road surface, even she kept her cool through the following few seconds. Oddly enough, the bikes following me at the time followed me into the rest area thinking I knew where I was going.

[Cosmik de Bris]

In my past life, on Rider Training Courses run at Manfeild Raceway, one of the OPTIONAL exercises that attenders could try involved the plastic lid off a 2 litre icecream container.



Back in the 70's I had a bad crash at an intersection by locking the front in the rain, I have been really apprehensive about it ever since. This post has given me hope again, thanks.

[T.W.R]

Once apon a time decent training involved learning how to cadence brake and feeling exactly what can be achieved with the front brake.Then along came ABS and took the feeling all away ;)

[rastuscat]

Once apon a time decent training involved learning how to cadence brake and feeling exactly what can be achieved with the front brake.Then along came ABS and took the feeling all away ;)

Cadence braking takes skill. Which most people lack.

It's basically a thing if the past but mostly coz nobody took the time to sufficiently practice it.

[T.W.R]

Cadence braking takes skill. Which most people lack.

It's basically a thing if the past but mostly coz nobody took the time to sufficiently practice it.

Exactly :msn-wink:

a few years back i had a guy crash right in front of me and the 1st thing he said to me was...how the fuck did you brake so quickly? tried explaining it to him but it went straight over his head :facepalm:

[pritch]

My money is on greasy hands being all over the tyre as it was fitted.

Cassina, you won't fool anybody by using a new log in. :whistle:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Cassina, you won't fool anybody by using a new log in. :whistle:

Lol. Couldn't agree more.

[SVboy]

Exactly :msn-wink:

a few years back i had a guy crash right in front of me and the 1st thing he said to me was...how the fuck did you brake so quickly? tried explaining it to him but it went straight over his head :facepalm:

Cadence braking Tell us more.

[Honest Andy]

I thought "Cadence Braking" was just a flash term for braking too hard then releasing to regain traction then braking too hard then releasing to regain traction then braking too hard then... crash...

[bogan]

There is a case to be made for tyres being pre-washed before sale, perhaps the cat-fucker cunt who has our MSL can use it to buy some soapy water and get the fuck to work...


Yep. You're talking shit.

Seconded. Self correcting 'slides' should not be confused with ones which do need correction applied.

[nzspokes]

Seconded. Self correcting 'slides' should not be confused with ones which do need correction applied.

Or get some training so the slides don't happen in the first place. :facepalm:

[Honest Andy]

the cat-fucker cunt who has our MSL

MSL? is that short for measles? He obviously hasn't been immunised. Someone should tell him how important immunisation is....

[T.W.R]

Cadence braking Tell us more.

Why the know it alls will just poo-hoo it anyhow :yes: read between the lines of the 1st post it's mentioned and you'll be somewhere near it....think manual ABS


I thought "Cadence Braking" was just a flash term for braking too hard then releasing to regain traction then braking too hard then releasing to regain traction then braking too hard then... crash...

Nothing to do with braking "too" hard at all :facepalm: and has nothing to do with regaining traction at all...it's all about maintaining traction :facepalm:
A properly set-up & fully functioning front brake system has a amazing amount of feel to it

[roogazza]

Why the know it alls will just poo-hoo it anyhow :yes: read between the lines of the 1st post it's mentioned and you'll be somewhere near it....think manual ABS



Nothing to do with braking "too" hard at all :facepalm: and has nothing to do with regaining traction at all...it's all about maintaining traction :facepalm:
A properly set-up & fully functioning front brake system has a amazing amount of feel to it

Though nowdays at the tender age of 68, I tend to wake up to slide/drift, after the event really !!! haha

But yes on the cadence braking,I introéd that into the police driving syllabis. The recruits thought it was a great idea and got a lot out of it.
Takes a lot to train the brain to release, in panic stop situations,eg slippery surfaces. :rolleyes:

[Honest Andy]

Nothing to do with braking "too" hard at all :facepalm: and has nothing to do with regaining traction at all...it's all about maintaining traction :facepalm:
A properly set-up & fully functioning front brake system has a amazing amount of feel to it

Sorry mate, just joking, didn't mean to piss you off :)
I know what you're talking about, and understand it. It takes a lot of practice to master the subtleties. But I've driven and ridden with people who thought they were cadence braking but really were just making it worse by being heavy-handed...

[T.W.R]

Sorry mate, just joking, didn't mean to piss you off :)
I know what you're talking about, and understand it. It takes a lot of practice to master the subtleties. But I've driven and ridden with people who thought they were cadence braking but really were just making it worse by being heavy-handed...


:laugh: You're fine, just unfortunately what you'd posted was a good example of what not to do :msn-wink: I knew you were taking the mickey



Though nowdays at the tender age of 68 I tend to wake up to slide/drift after the event really !!! haha

But yes on the cadence braking,I introéd that into the police driving syllabis. The recruits thought it was a great idea and got a lot out of it.
Takes a lot to train the brain to release, in panic stop situations,eg slippery surfaces. :rolleyes:

yeah I'd probably be in the same boat if I had to do it in an emergency now too.....:shifty:reminds ones self to go & hone up ones more subtle riding techniques when time allows.
That's the big decider in things is training the brain to remain composed in situations where natural instinct is to panic....knowing the abilities of the equipment & having faith in what they're capable of makes a huge difference.
The quality, strength & feel of brake systems these days being able to cadence brake is a lot easier than it used to be albeit systems without ABS :niceone:

[ellipsis]

...my old T20 had a wheel and TLS up front from a Yamaha of the period...the first lap of Ruapuna was cadence braking but more to keep a bit of life in the shoes, after that lap it was cadence braking to just check that they were actually doing anything at all...after that lap it was cadence braking in a forlorn hope that something might just slow it down...the Suzuki brakes were non existent after three corners...

[Maha]

Why the know it alls will just poo-hoo it anyhow :yes: read between the lines of the 1st post it's mentioned and you'll be somewhere near it....think manual ABS


We I did my BHS, progressive braking was taught. I recall one time (and oldguy will remember this) I used it successfully when said oldguy pulled in front of me and stopped, I was slowing at the time but I could see a rather messy moment looming ahead of me, applied the progressive braking, Anne ended hard up behind me on the seat (not such a bad thing) and the front wheel of the Triumph ended up just inside the real wheel and pipe of oldguy's VTR, well it certainly seemed that.

There shouldn't be any poo pooing of braking techniques that potentially will save you grief, too much poo poo is not a good thing.

[T.W.R]

you've had one too many taps on the fuckin head :facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

I tap the brakes multiple times when coming to a stop on a wet road

In my accidents I was so close there was no time to brake at all which is something many on here have never experienced from their posts to me on the topic of braking.

There's always time to brake unless you get hit by a scud missile.

[T.W.R]

There's always time to brake unless you get hit by a scud missile.

http://www.wsmr-history.org/Photos/Dog21.jpg

[old slider]

This has turned into one of the better threads for us less experienced riders, sorting out the wheat from the chaff is getting easier the longer you use you the forum and I thank you guys for willingly sharing your knowledge.

This quote from T.W.R. gives me a glimmer of hope and a remote chance, due to having much slower reflexes and a brain to match.

"A slip or slide can happen at anytime on the road, on any tyre. Knowing not to grab shit and pull/twist when it does will more than likely allow you to buy a beer later and laugh about it. The front wheel works like a gyroscope in that, it is free to alter in direction, working against this force will often end in a sad face".

[T.W.R]

This has turned into one of the better threads for us less experienced riders, sorting out the wheat from the chaff is getting easier the longer you use you the forum and I thank you guys for willingly sharing your knowledge.

This quote from T.W.R. gives me a glimmer of hope and a remote chance, due to having much slower reflexes and a brain to match.

"A slip or slide can happen at anytime on the road, on any tyre. Knowing not to grab shit and pull/twist when it does will more than likely allow you to buy a beer later and laugh about it. The front wheel works like a gyroscope in that, it is free to alter in direction, working against this force will often end in a sad face".

Wasn't me :no: That wee gem came from Maha :niceone:

[Akzle]

Or get some training so the slides don't happen in the first place. :facepalm:

nah just lern to do some fokken sikk skids cunt

[Jeff Sichoe]

I practice emergency braking at every red light and stop sign, then when shit gets real it's not emergency braking anymore it's just regular ass braking

[mossy1200]

Makes me smile every time.

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[awayatc]

you've had one too many taps on the fuckin head :facepalm:

Or maybe not enough.....?

[rastuscat]

I practice emergency braking at every red light and stop sign, then when shit gets real it's not emergency braking anymore it's just regular ass braking

Regular ass braking leads to abrasion burns. To the ass.

[Bass]

In the gravel on the DR, I am sorta relaxed coming into a corner with the back close to locked up and snaking around while feeling for the braking limits of the front end.
I am less relaxed when the back steps out under power while exiting the corner and although its often expected (even provoked), my reaction is to get off the gas before it gets out too far and I have no idea at all of where the limits are.

I CANNOT shift even these modest skills onto the seal. Firstly, as has been mentioned (but not emphasised), these events happen real quick. They are much more abrupt on the seal than on the gravel. If I need to think about it, then it's already way too late.
I am completely unable to override the instinctive reaction (on the seal) to get off the gas immediately the arse steps out. So far, it hasn't mattered because recognising my limitations, I appear to be reasonably good at riding within them and so these events, when they occur, tend to be minor and sort themselves out before I have a chance to make them worse.

I would very much like to change this, but at 65 I think that I am past the point of being able to change my reflexive behaviour. A factor in this is that I don't want to change it enough to see me pushing the envelope on what is close to $40,000 worth of motorcycle.

I have tried getting the arse out in the loose on the Beemer quite a few times but the bitch has surprisingly good rear end grip and usually just fucks off at some ridiculous rate of knots.