JIS screwdrivers and all that bollocks

[F5 Dave]

So no doubt you've read about JIS screwdrivers. If not the story goes that Japanese Industry Standard screws are what the Japanese use on their motorbicylmobiles. But Philips are pretty close and nobody notices. Posidrives are just wrong.

So I've read that as long as you push Philips are just as good.
So I decided to order some Vessel brand bits off EvilBay.

Well I took them into the garage and dabed some blue from a metal marker pen in the top parts of the slots.

Then I tried them in Different screws in an engine conveniently on the bench. Wow, they fit well. So I try the same size Philips I have. They fit well. But the difference is that I can wobble it around in a small circle. With the JIS ones, nowhere near as much. Huh!

So I try a tight screw, previously I'd decides I better break out the impact driver. Philips, fail. JIS, success.

OK I'm sold.

[Mike.Gayner]

Definitely makes a big difference, especially getting off tight screws where a phillips driver will cam out (and take some screw head material with it).

[neels]

I didn't even know they were a thing until recently, and yes they work much better than a dirty old philips, all to do with angles and shit.

I bought some for my garage to reduce the screw muntage, seems to be working so far.
331417

[Ocean1]

So no doubt you've read about JIS screwdrivers. If not the story goes that Japanese Industry Standard screws are what the Japanese use on their motorbicylmobiles. But Philips are pretty close and nobody notices. Posidrives are just wrong.

So I've read that as long as you push Philips are just as good.
So I decided to order some Vessel brand bits off EvilBay.

Well I took them into the garage and dabed some blue from a metal marker pen in the top parts of the slots.

Then I tried them in Different screws in an engine conveniently on the bench. Wow, they fit well. So I try the same size Philips I have. They fit well. But the difference is that I can wobble it around in a small circle. With the JIS ones, nowhere near as much. Huh!

So I try a tight screw, previously I'd decides I better break out the impact driver. Philips, fail. JIS, success.

OK I'm sold.

Next time try dabbing some fine valve grinding paste, (yes, yes I know) on them and see how that feels.

[Akzle]

only pussies need screwing. get a nail gun bro.

[pete376403]

I read that the slight angle on Philips is to ensure they cam out at a certain torque, to prevent overtightening. This is to ensure that there are no (less, anyway) faults introduced at manufacturing. Removal probably wasn't in the design brief.

[oldiebutagoody]

A bike mentor/old engineer turned me onto JIS vs Phillips when I was quite young.

Surprise surprise, the only way to get hold of one in NZ for a long time (within reasonable price bracket) was to go to your supplied tool kit under the seat of the bike. The screwdriver included in there has a JIS tip specifically for the Jap bikes.

Funny that.

Of course you can get anything off fleabay now for a couple of dollars if you look hard enough.

If you were unlucky enough to buy a bike that the owner had lost or removed the supplied tool kit, you were out of luck.

[F5 Dave]

Next time try dabbing some fine valve grinding paste, (yes, yes I know) on them and see how that feels.
I actually bought some specialised paste in a bottle to aid worn screw grip in the early 90s. Never really used it, wonder where it is?

[jellywrestler]

I actually bought some specialised paste in a bottle to aid worn screw grip in the early 90s. Never really used it, wonder where it is?

ya probably used it on your womb broom one day.

[Ocean1]

I actually bought some specialised paste in a bottle to aid worn screw grip in the early 90s. Never really used it, wonder where it is?

Aye, I haven't seen any of that stuff for a while but standard grinding paste worked OK for me long before it arrived on the market.

And the time to use it is before the screws is worn.

Mind, 3/8" battery rattle guns have made life a fair bit easier...

[Grumph]

I got given some of that paste too, long gone...

I simply sidestep the issue by using ZP allen screws on everything I build. Blacks in Chch carry them in a wide variety - cheap as chips too.
I do note that late model stuff seems to have standardised on 8mm hex heads on what would have been crossheads previously.

[T.W.R]

I got given some of that paste too, long gone...

I simply sidestep the issue by using ZP allen screws on everything I build. Blacks in Chch carry them in a wide variety - cheap as chips too.
I do note that late model stuff seems to have standardised on 8mm hex heads on what would have been crossheads previously.

EDL are better if you're wanting more obscure sizes or Stainless :msn-wink: unless you put the acid on CJ @ blacks the others don't want to help to much

[Ocean1]

I got given some of that paste too, long gone...

I simply sidestep the issue by using ZP allen screws on everything I build. Blacks in Chch carry them in a wide variety - cheap as chips too.
I do note that late model stuff seems to have standardised on 8mm hex heads on what would have been crossheads previously.

My first attempt at the problem on an SL350 was exactly that. Only you couldn't get plated ones, so I got black ht ones, (had to make a couple because you couldn't get long ones) and got them plated locally.

The heads all fell off.

Well, some of them did. So I did the job all over again and made a wee polished radius under the head. Second time lucky.

Nowadays you can get almost anything off the shelf in stainless. Just make sure you use the right thread lube.

[ellipsis]

Surprise surprise, the only way to get hold of one in NZ for a long time (within reasonable price bracket) was to go to your supplied tool kit under the seat of the bike. The screwdriver included in there has a JIS tip specifically for the Jap bikes.




...as soon as I discovered that the screwdriver supplied with the Toyota toolkit, the double ended one that also has the slotted end, my fucking of any head that was slightly rusted or had been fucked by previous attempts was almost sorted...best screwdrivers I have for any automotive or other stuck screws...

[cods4]

So JIS screws are the ones with the little dimple on the head?
Whenever I have had a problem with them I have replaced them with the black HT cap screws. I now have a few bags of a few different sizes of them from EDL.

[Drew]

All cap screws are hardened, you don't need to add HT.

[Grumph]

All cap screws are hardened, you don't need to add HT.

Correct - and that's the problem with just getting them zinc plated. Hydrogen embrittlement.
Blacks get theirs plated in bulk - then the batches get baked to sort the hydrogen embrittlement.
Never had one of theirs break.

[Motu]

The little dimple mean ISO. JIS Phillips are shallower than Phillips. Lost (misplaced) my Matco JIS a few months ago, so took a bit of the point off a cheap Stanley Phillips, now it works better than my now reunited JIS, and is my now go to screwdriver.

[AllanB]

so took a bit of the point off a cheap Stanley Phillips, now it works better than my now reunited JIS, and is my now go to screwdriver.

Ah - I remember doing this now some years back. Got a feeling it went with my old Kawasaki in the tool kit.

[Ocean1]

All cap screws are hardened, you don't need to add HT.


HT = high tensile. Don't actually mean jack shit without a standards reference, I simply meant "those black high tensile (compared to an old Ajax hex bolt) capheads that used to be pretty much all you could get".

[Drew]

HT = high tensile. Don't actually mean jack shit without a standards reference, I simply meant "those black high tensile (compared to an old Ajax hex bolt) capheads that used to be pretty much all you could get".I avoid the black ones wherever possible. Paint don't stick to them, and the rust.

[Moise]

The little dimple mean ISO. JIS Phillips are shallower than Phillips. Lost (misplaced) my Matco JIS a few months ago, so took a bit of the point off a cheap Stanley Phillips, now it works better than my now reunited JIS, and is my now go to screwdriver.
I had an old, dark green Stanley with the tip ground off, but it disappeared a while back. I should make another one.

I sometimes go up a size, as the tip doesn't bottom out and fits better.

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[buggerit]

Next time try dabbing some fine valve grinding paste, (yes, yes I know) on them and see how that feels.

+1 , works well, even if quite munted

[Gremlin]

I wanted a set of JIS (ie, multiple sizes).... struggled like buggery, most people didn't even know they existed, so sorta gave up...

What did you get?

[F5 Dave]

EBay out of France it seems. Bought a 1,2,3 set of bits for my Bahco screwdriver and then just got a size 2 but decent sets seemed very pricey or a bit nasty. Hard to find a midrange set with reasonable shipping. Will show up.

[gonzo_akl]

I wanted a set of JIS (ie, multiple sizes).... struggled like buggery, most people didn't even know they existed, so sorta gave up...

What did you get?


I have just ordered some from these guys, I'll let you know how it goes. They have a range of options.

https://www.vesseltools.com/

I went with a set of 3 screwdrivers and 3 bits for my impact driver, about $50.00 all up. I am shipping via youshop as the quoted freight charges were huge...

cheers

[Moise]

Vessel made impact drivers back in the day. Essential tool for removing "Phillips" screws. Of course, one of the reasons they worked so well was they came with JIS bits ...

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[gonzo_akl]

Vessel made impact drivers back in the day. Essential tool for removing "Phillips" screws. Of course, one of the reasons they worked so well was they came with JIS bits ...

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It looks like they still have impact drivers in their range. They have a bundled motorcycle repair kit that includes an Impact Driver, it looks pretty good but I have a driver so just went with the bits to add to the ones I already have.

https://www.vesseltools.com/handtools/screwdrivers/screwdriversets/motorcycle-repair-kit-detail

cheers

[Bandit Rider]

EBay out of France it seems. Bought a 1,2,3 set of bits for my Bahco screwdriver and then just got a size 2 but decent sets seemed very pricey or a bit nasty. Hard to find a midrange set with reasonable shipping. Will show up.

Did the same, they turned up after a few days. Cheapest way, and having the option to use different tools with the bit makes sense.