aftermarket pipe, Lams allowed or not

[jellywrestler]

Simple question, if a bike has an aftermarket muffler is it still a lams approved bike?

[nzspokes]

My understanding is on a 250 its no issue but is on bigger bikes as it changes the power to weight ratio.

In saying that I have never heard of anybody having an issue with it.

[onearmedbandit]

It's not exactly clear about specific mods but any modification that increases or decreases power-to-weight makes it prohibited;


If you modify your motorcycle, it may not be approved

Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases or decreases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.

If you are a rider on a learner or restricted motorcycle licence, it is your responsibility to ensure you are riding a LAMS-approved motorcycle, as produced by the manufacturer. If in doubt, seek confirmation from the manufacturer's agent or dealership. If you are unsure who to contact, details for all major motorcycle importers are available on the Motor Industry Association website (external link) .

If you don't follow these rules you may end up with fines and demerit points.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/driver-licences/getting-a-licence/licences-by-vehicle-type/motorcycles/lams/

[Jeeper]

I have wondered about this as well. Mine is bigger engine, and I would like to get better sounding pipes. However, I am not taking any chances as yet. Although I do question how much extra power can there be with just pipes, and no change to intake and tune.

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[onearmedbandit]

I would think most cops wouldn't care, unless you fail the attitude test. However your insurance company, which lets face it are always looking for a way to reduce their exposure, may see it as a reason to not pay out.

[FJRider]

It's not exactly clear about specific mods but any modification that increases or decreases power-to-weight makes it prohibited;


Many take this to mean all changes to just increase horsepower is not permitted. But installing any lighter aftermarket parts ... effectively changes the Power to weight ratio The same horsepower but then it is a lighter bike.

[EJK]

I would think most cops wouldn't care, unless you fail the attitude test. However your insurance company, which lets face it are always looking for a way to reduce their exposure, may see it as a reason to not pay out.

+1

Cops I worry the least about. It's the insurance policy I don't mess around with.

[FJRider]

I would think most cops wouldn't care, unless you fail the attitude test. However your insurance company, which lets face it are always looking for a way to reduce their exposure, may see it as a reason to not pay out.

One Company I found ...

https://www.protectainsurance.co.nz/motorcycle-insurance/faqs

[Jeeper]

Yes, insurance is the main worry.

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[EJK]

One Company I found ...

https://www.protectainsurance.co.nz/motorcycle-insurance/faqs

Good find! Says all really.

[LinkNZ]

I did a silver ride forever course a few months ago and the instructor didn't give two f***s about a couple of learners on their 300s with slip ons.

[FJRider]

I did a silver ride forever course a few months ago and the instructor didn't give two f***s about a couple of learners on their 300s with slip ons.

1. They are not Police.

2. They are not Insurance Company rep's.

All they require is the motorcycles have current Registration and Warrant of Fitness labels displayed. And the riders are licensed to ride the motorcycle they bring.

[FJRider]

I would think most cops wouldn't care, unless you fail the attitude test. However your insurance company, which lets face it are always looking for a way to reduce their exposure, may see it as a reason to not pay out.

Regardless of why they stopped you ... it's the attitude test that usually decides the result of the stop.

[LinkNZ]

1. They are not Police.

2. They are not Insurance Company rep's.

All they require is the motorcycles have current Registration and Warrant of Fitness labels displayed. And the riders are licensed to ride the motorcycle they bring.

No doubt I don't disagree with that.

Though if a learner or restricted were to turn up to his or her CBTA assessment, the same instructor that didn't give two f***s would be well within his rights to not proceed with the test as the bike is not technically LAMS compliant.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/Driver-Licences/docs/cbta-course-guide.pdf

[FJRider]

No doubt I don't disagree with that.

Though if a learner or restricted were to turn up to his or her CBTA assessment, the same instructor that didn't give two f***s would be well within his rights to not proceed with the test as the bike is not technically LAMS compliant.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/Driver-Licences/docs/cbta-course-guide.pdf

Google Discretion.

[T.W.R]

No doubt I don't disagree with that.

Though if a learner or restricted were to turn up to his or her CBTA assessment, the same instructor that didn't give two f***s would be well within his rights to not proceed with the test as the bike is not technically LAMS compliant.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/Driver-Licences/docs/cbta-course-guide.pdf

Not well within their rights to not proceed, but more following procedure of rules & regulations


Google Discretion.

Discretion my arse :oi-grr:


The list of LAMS-approved and LAMS-prohibited motorcycles is
updated as new models are approved by the Transport Agency.
These motorcycles must be in standard form as produced by the
manufacturer. They cannot be modified in any way to increase the
power-to-weight ratio.

[pritch]

Although I do question how much extra power can there be with just pipes, and no change to intake and tune.

Very little in fact. One of the bike mags did some testing of after market cans and from memory the best gain was 3bhp. Some cans actually made less power than standard. As you say, no changes to tune won't result in much of a performance gain.

[Dadpole]

The weight reduction issue is an interesting one. Can you argue that the loss of weight by removing the mainstand can be countered by an extra pie for lunch?

Also, since they allow 90kg for rider and gear, would a Pedrosa type be in the poo?

[huff3r]

The weight reduction issue is an interesting one. Can you argue that the loss of weight by removing the mainstand can be countered by an extra pie for lunch?

Also, since they allow 90kg for rider and gear, would a Pedrosa type be in the poo?

No, as it's the bike that has to meet the rules (with the allowances) not the rider. Likewise you cannot ride a more powerful bike than LAMS ones just because you're a lardarse and weigh 200+.

[Dadpole]

Can I fuck with the rules by losing the mainstand and putting on a heavier exhaust? What about lighter tyres? :whistle:

There should be some wriggle room bearing in mind that a 15 -20 year old bike is unlikely to be 'as manufactured'. I doubt any copper will care, but in an insurance company tries to apply the "rules" it could be interesting.

[neels]

If your insurance company can demonstrate that having a louder exhaust than standard contributed to your accident, then you might find yourself in difficulty if you have an accident, much like having a current WOF but riding on bald tyres in the rain.

Strictly speaking non compliant is non compliant, but in reality most police will give you your ticket for speeding or riding like a dick and send you on your way, as proving in court that a change of exhaust has altered the power to weight ratio of the bike and therefore made it no longer LAMS approved is far too hard.

[AllanB]

Put some CRC on it.

[F5 Dave]

I did a silver ride forever course a few months ago and the instructor didn't give two f***s about a couple of learners on their 300s with slip ons.
Maybe you should sue them. Bet they didn't check your helmet date of manufacture either. How dare they not shield you from personal responsibility<_<

[Taxythingy]

Though if a learner or restricted were to turn up to his or her CBTA assessment, the same instructor that didn't give two f***s would be well within his rights to not proceed with the test as the bike is not technically LAMS compliant.

Anecdote does not equal data, but it didn't bring things to a grinding halt for me.

[FJRider]

If your insurance company can demonstrate that having a louder exhaust than standard contributed to your accident, then you might find yourself in difficulty if you have an accident, much like having a current WOF but riding on bald tyres in the rain.

Most have a policy of being seen to have their policy's ... as being within the letter of the law.


Strictly speaking non compliant is non compliant, but in reality most police will give you your ticket for speeding or riding like a dick and send you on your way, as proving in court that a change of exhaust has altered the power to weight ratio of the bike and therefore made it no longer LAMS approved is far too hard.

Or getting a "Riding outside the conditions of their license" charge ... singly if they fail the attitude test. Or just add that charge to the "Others" if the riders actions deserve it. But if it's a single charge ... often as not it's a compliance notice given.

[FJRider]

Not well within their rights to not proceed, but more following procedure of rules & regulations





Interestingly ... the usual multi-class License tester would (most likely) be unaware if a motorcycle had an aftermarket exhaust system.

[T.W.R]

Interestingly ... the usual multi-class License tester would (most likely) be unaware if a motorcycle had an aftermarket exhaust system.

but a multi class licence tester doesn't do motorcycle licencing though......just the same as a standard car WOF tester isn't authorised to test motorcycles either ;)

[T.W.R]

been looking at the regulations on motorcycle licencing and I see the old loop-hole has been well closed too

Remember the days when the capacity restrictions could be by-passed by having a sidechair...wonder how many fiddled the system with that one?

[Akzle]

insurance company, which lets face it are always looking for a way to reduce their exposure, may see it as a reason to not pay out.

aaaaaaaaaaand, depending on your jews " if it is not a contributing cause to the crash/failure..."
case law and shit. just hire better jews to out-jew your jewsurance. win-wIn. for all teh jews. and you don't get bumfucked as much. which is also a win.

[onearmedbandit]

aaaaaaaaaaand, depending on your jews " if it is not a contributing cause to the crash/failure..."
case law and shit. just hire better jews to out-jew your jewsurance. win-wIn. for all teh jews. and you don't get bumfucked as much. which is also a win.

This is very true.

[rastuscat]

When I became qualified to do CBTA assessments it's one of the things I queried. Just a few thoughts.

Most cops don't know what a LAMS bike is. Most still think learners can't ride anything bigger than a 250. Most cops don't know a bike by anything other than the stickers on it. For example, the V-Strom is identical in appearance apart from model designation on the licence label. How would a cop know?

I expect there are many roadside interactions where riders are explaining LAMS approval to the cop who has stopped them.

Nobody does inspections to confirm LAMS compliance. It's not something that gets checked at a WoF inspection.

Reducing the weight of a larger-than-250 LAMS bike voids the approval. As does increasing the power output. Period. You can do the mod and gain an exemption, but is it really worth the trouble?

When I queried it re CBTA assessments I was told I'm not a mechanic, so if a bike is on the LAMS list, it's okay to conduct the test.

There are extremes. 650 Beemers which have been chopped into cafe racers are way lighter.

Its a minefield.

[jellywrestler]

When I became qualified to do CBTA assessments it's one of the things I queried. Just a few thoughts.

Most cops don't know what a LAMS bike is. Most still think learners can't ride anything bigger than a 250. Most cops don't know a bike by anything other than the stickers on it. For example, the V-Strom is identical in appearance apart from model designation on the licence label. How would a cop know?

I expect there are many roadside interactions where riders are explaining LAMS approval to the cop who has stopped them.

Nobody does inspections to confirm LAMS compliance. It's not something that gets checked at a WoF inspection.

Reducing the weight of a larger-than-250 LAMS bike voids the approval. As does increasing the power output. Period. You can do the mod and gain an exemption, but is it really worth the trouble?

When I queried it re CBTA assessments I was told I'm not a mechanic, so if a bike is on the LAMS list, it's okay to conduct the test.

There are extremes. 650 Beemers which have been chopped into cafe racers are way lighter.

Its a minefield. seems pretty well black and white to me, adding a pipe, as it's written down isn't it?

[Jeeper]

seems pretty well black and white to me, adding a pipe, as it's written down isn't it?
Not if changing the pipes did not result in actual power gain. As I said before, unless the engine is retuned to match the pipes, gains any gains are questionable.

I don't want to muddy the waters myself, so I'm not changing mine till I get full license. I'll probably change the bike then and sell mine as LAMS compliant.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[T.W.R]

The wee magic line of verse is:

"These motorcycles must be in form as produced by the manufacturer"

Pretty fuckin simple really :yes: even a dumb arse cop that doesn't know jack shit about bikes could spot a aftermarket brand label that pretty much all aftermarket pipes are emblazoned with.

Fuckin modern licencing is pathetic anyhow...bloody everyone wanting everything right now not prepared to wait, thinking a licence is a given and their right to have....fucking sit back and earn it properly...bloody lams bikes of higher capacity etc newbs miss so many of the basic fundamentals and exposed themselves to the bigger traps a larger bike can cause without knowing how to handle & react to these traps

[FlangMasterJ]

The only real issue I see is if involved in a collision while on your learners or restricted. If you've got a modified exhaust and your insurance company caught wind they'd be like "nah bol".

[Asher]

Here's a curve ball.
What about a LAMs bike with a factory option aftermarket exhaust. An R3 with an Akarovic slip on for example.

[T.W.R]

Here's a curve ball.
What about a LAMs bike with a factory option aftermarket exhaust. An R3 with an Akarovic slip on for example.

It's a marketing ploy not a production fitment

[FlangMasterJ]

What about a factory exhaust with a sticker that adds 3.26hp but the sticker weighs so much that the power to weight ratio stays exactly the same as factory?

http://i.imgur.com/itMcsy5.gif

[T.W.R]

Riding a bike at a different time of day can have that effect :msn-wink: doesn't have to be a sticker :rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

No doubt I don't disagree with that.

Though if a learner or restricted were to turn up to his or her CBTA assessment, the same instructor that didn't give two f***s would be well within his rights to not proceed with the test as the bike is not technically LAMS compliant.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/Driver-Licences/docs/cbta-course-guide.pdf

I may or may not have done my CBTA full assessment on a GSX650FU that had been de-restricted to a full power 650 (which may or may not have been done by cutting Wire number 29 on the ECU)....

As others have said - Attitude test is key - A Cop is unlikely to care about your drilled Aluminium shorty brake levers (that technically save 100 grams and thus alter the power-to-weight).

I understand there is a degree of disgression, but ultimately, when you start fiddling with a LAMS bike, its a grey area - but so long as you aren't drastically changing the weight, or doing anything to increase the power/torque, then you should be okay.

[rastuscat]

If I was buying a used LAMS bike is want a factory spec one.

I do remember considering buying a new GSX1400 at one stage. They came as new with a Yoshimura exhaust.

It's a pretty technical issue. Cops are expected to be experts at everything. Which they normally ain't.

[FJRider]

If I was buying a used LAMS bike is want a factory spec one.

I do remember considering buying a new GSX1400 at one stage. They came as new with a Yoshimura exhaust.

It's a pretty technical issue. Cops are expected to be experts at everything. Which they normally ain't.

I recall reading (online somewhere) that due to the age of some of the motorcycles in the LAM's class ... and (lack of) availability of such parts ... aftermarket parts were permitted if no performance gains were achieved. Pretty simple really ... especially when most such machines struggled to get the (manufacturers) claimed horsepower anyway. Plus the 100,000 +kms clocked up ... getting near the LAM's limit would be a fine thing.

I can recall a lot of Suzuki models with the Yoshi' systems added to new motorcycles. Although I'm not sure they were added ex factory ... or shop/dealer to boost sales. Any dealer sales persons can clarify this ... ???

You might need a dam good memory to recall the entire Land Transport act ... and associated Laws ... but this is what many (of Joe Public) expect/believe they do (Although many hope they don't).

[FJRider]

What about a factory exhaust with a sticker that adds 3.26hp but the sticker weighs so much that the power to weight ratio stays exactly the same as factory?



I recall the old racing maxim .. it's easier to lose weight than gain horsepower. Probably the motto (and basis) of Cafe Racers ... :laugh:

[FJRider]

Riding a bike at a different time of day can have that effect :msn-wink: doesn't have to be a sticker :rolleyes:

You can go faster on an (almost) empty tank ... but not for long ... ;)

[Akzle]

Not if changing the pipes did not result in actual power gain.

-or- decreases the weight. dumbass.
you going to put a HEAVIER and/or more restrictive pipe on??

[T.W.R]

You can go faster on an (almost) empty tank ... but not for long ... ;)

:laugh: old lawn mowers with Villiers engines were good for that :shutup: wee sods could really get a scream on when they started to lean out :doh:

[FJRider]

:laugh: old lawn mowers with Villiers engines were good for that :shutup: wee sods could really get a scream on when they started to lean out :doh:

The same goes for RG50's ... :innocent:

[FJRider]

-or- decreases the weight. dumbass.
you going to put a HEAVIER and/or more restrictive pipe on??

That is NOT allowed either ... :shifty:


Any motorcycle modified in a way that increases or decreases its power-to-weight ratio is no longer LAMS-compliant, regardless of whether it appears on the list.

[TheDemonLord]

-or- decreases the weight. dumbass.
you going to put a HEAVIER and/or more restrictive pipe on??

Weeeeellll.....


https://h6oec37nb4i3bwttw2x32ck1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Roor-American-Bong.png

[T.W.R]

Syni will fry your brain :yes:

[FJRider]

Syni will fry your brain :yes:

I think your warning came too late ... ;)

[sphericalcow]

Yep it's pretty dumb, any modification that changes power to weight... aftermarket rear sets/levers? Still LAMS?

I was personally informed by Kiwibike and a police officer that any aftermarket pipe for a MT-07 makes the bike not LAMS approved and the insurance companies will not pay out - they will screw you whenever they can!

I ended up having to buy a stock exhaust from ausy as none of the Yamaha dealers in the North Island had any second hand ones at the time.


To anyone in the same position: I'm selling my stock exhaust as I no longer need it, check the online trading sub.