Who to contact about dangerous road design?

[george formby]

As above. I passed an accident this morning which really gave me the shits. Just minutes after it happened. Fair to say it has given me a big shake, I travel that piece of road everyday, cautiously. The accident made me realise perhaps not cautiously enough.

I have no intention of posting any details but I'm absolutely certain the road layout was the biggest culprit.

Where to start getting something done about it? It's a State Highway.

[haydes55]

*555 would certainly be a starting point. The call centre isn't only for dobbing in drivers, you can also report stock wandering and roading issues.

If the crash you saw was attended by a half competent investor, they will likely note the design flaws in the roading.

[razza11]

State highway contact NZTA and ask to speak with roading design engineers.

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[ellipsis]

...cassina...

[george formby]

...cassina...

That's one of the (lesser) reasons for not going into detail.

NZTA and the local council was my first thought.

[Honest Andy]

Good for you, and good luck...

P.S. you probably don't need to bother with the council, as soon as they hear it's a SH they'll pass the buck quicker than a hot potato...

[Jeeper]

Councils won't deal with SH design. Best to contact NZTA.

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[george formby]

Thinking through a bit more, I doubt anything can be done with that bit of road so it would have to be better signage and maybe road markings. Won't fix the problem unless you heed the warning signs, but.....

NZTA on my to do list for next week.

[bogan]

...cassina...


I dont think you would have much chance of getting a road changed due to one accident. Whenever I have read in the media about roads being changed as a result of an accident it normally has to be more than one within a given number of years and often they have to be serious injury or death accidents.

Give her directions, and release the hounds.



Repair quota in no time...

[FJRider]

As above. I passed an accident this morning which really gave me the shits. Just minutes after it happened. Fair to say it has given me a big shake, I travel that piece of road everyday, cautiously. The accident made me realise perhaps not cautiously enough.

I have no intention of posting any details but I'm absolutely certain the road layout was the biggest culprit.

Where to start getting something done about it? It's a State Highway.

If it's any consolation ... it wasn't YOU that was not as cautious as they could have been. In this day and age ... those involved in an accident are the first to shout "It wasn't my fault ... I was only doing the speed limit". As if ... at the posted speed limit they are perfectly safe. The Knee-Jerk reaction by NZTA now days ... is simply reducing the posted speed limit in "Black Spots".

Accidents are caused by a number of factors ... with road design sometimes being ONE of those factors. On a road you use daily ... you obviously are not getting complacent (as some do) with the road (and it's users). On a public highway ... people make mistakes. Such is life.

Remove all roads that might harm a motorist should they make a mistake .. and you might as well park up the bike ... and stay in bed come the weekend.

Those that choose to be not as cautious as you ... will continue to be involved in accidents.

THAT is NOT your fault ... and so continue to ride as you already do.

[Gremlin]

As said, you can raise with NZTA's roading team. If it isn't their jurisdiction, they will forward to the appropriate authority.

As always, the more detail you can supply (like exact location) the more likely an issue will be resolved.

[Honest Andy]

Too late!!!
Cassies seen it!!!

PULL OUT! PULL OUT!!!!

[HEsch]

If it is a SH then it is NZTA's jurisdiction, not the local council.
They are unlikely to change anything but will have to log it.

If you want to PM me the road I can try to find out whether there are any upcoming projects in the area.

[jellywrestler]

As above. I passed an accident this morning which really gave me the shits. Just minutes after it happened. so can you clarify, you passed the accident minutes after it happened, or you drew mud minutes after you passed it's not clear at all here.

[FJRider]

I dont know where you read your accident reports but you can be found at fault when doing the speed limit if as an example you dont give way.

Where can you be travelling at the speed limit ... and still be required to give way .. ??


I agree with you though that roads should not be blamed its just some of us are more skilled at riding/driving on them than others.

All those dogs you ran over probably just thought they were lucky to hit by a skilled rider ... and those other crashes you had were just bad luck ...

[george formby]

so can you clarify, you passed the accident minutes after it happened, or you drew mud minutes after you passed it's not clear at all here.

I passed after the event. The consequences and circumstances of the accident caused me to be shaken up as I passed.

Sorry, clear as mud.

[Black Knight]

SH 1 at Kawakawa turnoff?-If so scene of multiple accidents.
Hey Mark-Did you see Paihia now has traffic lights.

[old slider]

SH 1 at Kawakawa turnoff?-If so scene of multiple accidents.
Hey Mark-Did you see Paihia now has traffic lights.


Those in charge seem to make some life threatening changes to our roads.

We have an intersection that once had a busy straight through road running from town to the Castlecliff suburb with a give way on either side. Next day they reversed them, I think this was done for the now increased heavy vehicle usage. Too add even more confusion the previous straight through road now has a stop sign on one side and a giveway on the other.

The accidents seem to have been weekly since these changes, luckily its a 50kmh section so its mostly serious injury to vehicles and people rather than fatalities.

[EJK]

Some of the ChCh CBD has been made more dangerous too recently. If the road engineers/councils/NZTA could be charged for contributory fault in any crash resulting from the change I bet dangerous road changes would be a thing of the past.

Ride to the condition?

[Jeeper]

Ride to the condition?
Don't try to introduce logic and rationality, it doesn't work with some.

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[HEsch]

There are a number of NZTA safety initiatives, as well as standards that road designers must follow when designing roads (and associated structures eg bridges). New designs must meet strict criteria before being approved for construction. Designers and constructors work together to avoid things like counter flows (where traffic is diverted the "wrong" way temporarily, eg on an off ramp, or on the wrong side of the road) - sometimes it is unavoidable due to building a road 'on-line' and working alongside live lanes of traffic.


At the end of the day road users need to take 'more' care. I think most riders know this better than most drivers, because we are so insignificant (size, presence, visibility) and the consequences of getting it wrong so much higher.

[caspernz]

What gets me sometimes is the variation that is applied to road layouts/designs from region to region. Must say the new stuff I've seen put together in the last decade has a more consistent standard. As an example things like temporary speed limits applied to works sections, in the Waikato you might see 900 cones put out and a 30 km/h limit, whereas north of Auckland the same type of works carried out sees maybe a dozen cones and not a speed restriction in sight...

Just talking about road works sections, as much as I detest slowing down for temporary speed limits when there's no valid reason for them, as in no work being done and/or no loose stones or gravel about...I still slow down and find it amusing how quickly there's nobody in front of me anymore while my mirrors are all of a sudden full of vehicles. Being a trucker the tailgating muppets don't bother me, whereas on the bike this needs to be managed differently.

Overall I've yet to see many instances where one could truly blame the road, as in either condition of, or design of such. I know it's a cliché but drive/ride to the conditions and it's not usually any bother.

[old slider]

What gets me sometimes is the variation that is applied to road layouts/designs from region to region. Must say the new stuff I've seen put together in the last decade has a more consistent standard. As an example things like temporary speed limits applied to works sections, in the Waikato you might see 900 cones put out and a 30 km/h limit, whereas north of Auckland the same type of works carried out sees maybe a dozen cones and not a speed restriction in sight...

Just talking about road works sections, as much as I detest slowing down for temporary speed limits when there's no valid reason for them, as in no work being done and/or no loose stones or gravel about...I still slow down and find it amusing how quickly there's nobody in front of me anymore while my mirrors are all of a sudden full of vehicles. Being a trucker the tailgating muppets don't bother me, whereas on the bike this needs to be managed differently.

Overall I've yet to see many instances where one could truly blame the road, as in either condition of, or design of such. I know it's a cliché but drive/ride to the conditions and it's not usually any bother.


Agree, I also believe like many other accidents besides road users , Familiarity/complacency is often the culprit, never mind mentioning bad habits.

[EJK]

Don't try to introduce logic and rationality, it doesn't work with some.


Oh man!!! I'm so sorry I forgot...!! I'll see myself out.

[caspernz]

Agree, I also believe like many other accidents besides road users , Familiarity/complacency is often the culprit, never mind mentioning bad habits.

Absolutely right. One specific example is outriding our stopping distance around bends, resulting in collision with obstruction. So do we blame the slow tractor or broken down car for such an accident? Nope, we weren't riding to the conditions were we. Never mind the fact too many riders don't actually practice emergency stops...:rolleyes:

[caspernz]

So many on here say that sticking to the speed advisory sign where there is one is for wimps. I remember a few years back someone on here said their mate came to grief on a bend hitting gravel while riding above the speed advsory. I said they may not have come off if they had stuck to the advisory speed and the muppet replied saying I was wrong. So some on here will never learn I guess and would rather risk crashing and maybe dying rather than being known as a wimp.

Partly agree with you, letting ones' ego get in the way of safety is never a good idea.

But what I'm talking about is not about corner speed advisory signs, but rather not outrunning our vanishing point.

Say you're approaching a 55 advisory corner, yet with a clear view and vanishing point moving away from you, it's not unusual to then be able to run thru this corner above the advisory quite safely.

But that 35 advisory corner with a vanishing point that is coming back to us will have us in trouble if we outrun our stopping distance, and then encounter loose gravel...

[pritch]

the person at fault failed to give way but it was determined they were travelling at the speed limit.

If they were supposed to be stopped but were doing the speed limit, they were speeding. It's all relative.

[Jeeper]

At every intersection there are lines for traffic to follow. White line, giveway rules apply. Yellow line, stop rules apply. Unless traffic lights control the intersection. You don't need to look for a sign to tell you whether its giveway rules time or stop time. Signs can be blown away by Acts of God (wind). Lines on road remain.

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[george formby]

At every intersection there are lines for traffic to follow. White line, giveway rules apply. Yellow line, stop rules apply. Unless traffic lights control the intersection. You don't need to look for a sign to tell you whether its giveway rules time or stop time. Signs can be blown away by Acts of God (wind). Lines on road remain.

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This piece of road has none of the above and it's open road speed limit.

[Jeeper]

This piece of road has none of the above and it's open road speed limit.
So two roads are crossing each like + and have no road markings anywhere with open road speed limits?

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[Honest Andy]

So two roads are crossing each like + and have no road markings anywhere with open road speed limits?

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Nah, I don't think OP said anything like that, it was just Cassie making shit up again...

[george formby]

So two roads are crossing each like + and have no road markings anywhere with open road speed limits?

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Not a cross roads although I could mention an unmarked one not very far away which will eventually cause a fatal.

An unmarked junction just beyond a blind corner on a fast bit of road, the layout actually encourages you to go faster. There is a reduce speed sign before the corner but it implies that you slow for the corner, it drops off vertically at the road side... I know these two sentences are contradictory but that's how it is. As I said in my original post I do not want to post details, wish I could but it would probably start the usual shit fight and would be exceedingly insensitive to someone who is no doubt suffering immensely at the moment.

[Jeeper]

I have no reason to not believe what you are saying, it does look to be an oversight and strange though. I also understand what you are saying. Let it be before it strikes.

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[Berries]

Not a cross roads although I could mention an unmarked one not very far away which will eventually cause a fatal.

An unmarked junction just beyond a blind corner on a fast bit of road, the layout actually encourages you to go faster. There is a reduce speed sign before the corner but it implies that you slow for the corner, it drops off vertically at the road side... I know these two sentences are contradictory but that's how it is. As I said in my original post I do not want to post details, wish I could but it would probably start the usual shit fight and would be exceedingly insensitive to someone who is no doubt suffering immensely at the moment.
So did you get hold of anyone at NZTA? Interested to see how you got on.

[Honest Andy]

So did you get hold of anyone at NZTA? Interested to see how you got on.

+1 me too...

[rastuscat]

I used an app called Snap Send Solve to report a grit patch a few weeks back. Details go to the local road controlling authority.

It had been there for weeks. Two days after I reported it, it was swept up.

[Honest Andy]

I used an app called Snap Send Solve to report a grit patch a few weeks back. Details go to the local road controlling authority.

It had been there for weeks. Two days after I reported it, it was swept up.

Possibly coincidental...
But encouraging :niceone:

[rambaldi]

I used an app called Snap Send Solve to report a grit patch a few weeks back. Details go to the local road controlling authority.

It had been there for weeks. Two days after I reported it, it was swept up.

I don't think it as on here but I have seen other recommendations for Snap Send Solve in the last few days. Sounds like NZTA like it as they get to see the actual problem straight away, and have been responding to issues raised by it much faster than they do for problems reported via other places.

[Akzle]

Too late!!!
Cassies seen it!!!

PULL OUT! PULL OUT!!!!

is what someone should have told her dad...

[george formby]

So did you get hold of anyone at NZTA? Interested to see how you got on.

I had a good conversation with the NZTA lady about the accident. Quite considered actually. I suggested better signage as an option, probably the only option. Apparently this stretch of road is under review in a Northland road improvement plan.
As yet, no further contact and no new signs but their are loads of road workers around the place. Fingers crossed.

TBH I doubt signs would make a big difference, only to those who heed signs with a red border.
The reduce speed sign is solid red and immense but most folk have the pedal to the metal thinking it just applies to the drop off and they have to get past those trucks and campervans, it's a passing lane, so they do.

I travel this bit of road daily and I'm a road craft zealot. It still gives me the shits that after years of riding and driving this stretch I never spotted the specific causes of this accident.

Sorry it's all so ambiguous. Showing the location and explaining my take on what happened may connect somebody to the rider involved and I have no control over the consequences of that.

[Berries]

The reduce speed sign is solid red and immense but most folk have the pedal to the metal thinking it just applies to the drop off and they have to get past those trucks and campervans, it's a passing lane, so they do.
To be honest those signs are shit as they don't know what speed you are doing and don't tell you what you have to reduce speed for. There's a pair on the road from Queenstown to Arrowtown either side of a reverse curve that doesn't even warrant an advisory speed and a huge one as you come in to Dunedin before the 50km/h signs.

Even better is another one on the outskirts of Queenstown that shouts "YOU MUST REDUCE SPEED NOW". Now if it told you there was a skifield turn off just around the blind corner you might take a bit more care, especially during the ski season. As it is it just gets ignored. Have never seen one that made sense.

[george formby]

To be honest those signs are shit as they don't know what speed you are doing and don't tell you what you have to reduce speed for. There's a pair on the road from Queenstown to Arrowtown either side of a reverse curve that doesn't even warrant an advisory speed and a huge one as you come in to Dunedin before the 50km/h signs.

Even better is another one on the outskirts of Queenstown that shouts "YOU MUST REDUCE SPEED NOW". Now if it told you there was a skifield turn off just around the blind corner you might take a bit more care, especially during the ski season. As it is it just gets ignored. Have never seen one that made sense.

Very pertinent post.

[ellipsis]

...signage like Berries says , is only relevant if it means something...the (little, slight, shallow, not far off straight, kink) at the end of my road that intersects HW75 at Riddled Liver has been the site of so many prangs, mainly cars over the thirty years I've been here is fucking ridiculous.
...Reduce Speed sign then a 70kmh sign on a road that everyone thinks is a GP track does not inform the fools on the highway that two intersections with not very good visibility are there as soon as the curve is rounded...even at 70 it is a quick or dead situation for us locals who want to pull out onto the highway but 60 or 70% of the fuckwits don't drop below 90k's or more...twenty years we have tried to get LTSA or whoever does road speeds to sort it...every new generation of parent with kids gets together and tries again...the authorities excuse for not doing anything, "Nobody lives on the rural side of the main road'...
...maybe it's this excuse, reason, that cunts doing 100ks and overtaking slower vehicles on the village stretch of the highway act like fuckwits too...

[george formby]

Their are a lot of similarities there ellipsis.

Only traffic is at risk here, the whole road layout is about overtaking, making head way past slower traffic over a hill. Thing is, you come around the corner expecting clear road in front of you, as you overtake, to find a stationary car. Maybe 70 metres from the car when you see the apex, on the wide line, maybe more. Straight line braking is a max of 50 mtrs. Don't quote me on the distances but I've measured it enough driving past that I know by the time your eye brows have gone up, your sphincter has snapped shut and your nuts have nudged your brain into gear the braking time has gone.

A car stopped to turn right in the face of oncoming traffic, in the passing lane, just past a blind corner. 3 dimensions of traffic in 3 lanes and your next round the bend.

[george formby]

Oop here I think most of the budget is being spent on just keeping roads open. You don't have to ride far to see the road falling down a bank or a bank falling on the road every time it rains.

[Moi]

Maybe the council/NZTA does not have the money to add the words "Tight Bend" or "Busy Intersection around corner"

Might be more to do with what is allowed under the regulations governing road signs...

[george formby]

Might be more to do with what is allowed under the regulations governing road signs...

Shirley not?

I'm sure such signs are not that expensive but reprinting the Road Code and up dating all the web sites would be a bit spendy.