What happened next?

[Moise]

So, you're riding into this corner. Sunday afternoon just after the climb north from Kawakawa Bay.

The bike on the roadside is a clue.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170718/22661086e5ad384a9afcab17de3c924c.jpg

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[Honest Andy]

hmm. I'd be trying to avoid the shiny tar, and especially that odd looking shiny stripe... is that oil?

[Akzle]

What happened next?

you stopped and had a yarn with your mate dazza who had momentarily ducked into the bushes to relieve himself of the mussel pies and four quarts of lion red he had for lunch in kawakawa?

[caseye]

I know the corner, Diesel or Shiete?, hope there isn't a bike where we cant see?

[Reckless]

I know the corner too, the best s on that road. Going that way goes left after that.

Thats not an oil or water trail from the parked bike is it?

[Moise]

That shiny line was water from a boat, but it had some slippery stuff in it. The front just went and the bike ended up in the gravel.

I didn't spot the shiny line, and even if I had, would have assumed it was just water.

I saw a few boats towed round that corner, and every one of them left a trail of water.

That road is becoming dangerous. One of the people who stopped was a local and commented that the road to Orere Point is very slippery when it's wet. That I could well believe.

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[Honest Andy]

Just having another look at that photo... jesus it looks slick. I don't think it'd matter if the stripe was oily or not, cos there's fuck all stones left. I hope there were no injuries.

Council should put up a sign... that'd help... to stop bikers before they go over the bank...

[Moise]

Just having another look at that photo... jesus it looks slick. I don't think it'd matter if the stripe was oily or not, cos there's fuck all stones left. I hope there were no injuries.

Council should put up a sign... that'd help... to stop bikers before they go over the bank...
Council (Auckland) should fix the fuckin road! It's promoted as a tourist route so lots of camper vans, cyclists, motorbikes, etc. during the season, plus it's the only access to some settlements along the coast.

Then there's the section along the coast where the clay cliffs have been falling onto the road ever since the April floods. That's getting worse, not better. There's a patch of clay on our drive that I washed off the bike afterwards.

It was my bike that crashed - I'm fine, just a sore thumb. The bike has a fair bit of cosmetic damage after a trip through the gravel trap, but I was able to ride it home.

[nzrobj]

Looks a bit dodgy to begin with, with the worn seal. Certainly wouldn't fancy riding that road in the wet.


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[ellipsis]

...looks like most of the roads down here around Canterbury, cheap fucking seal and shit repairs everywhere. The Akaroa Highway on the way to the Hilltop is covered in oily bilge water constantly through the summer months. I'm sure this is how Dangerous lost the front end in his 'off', on the Hilltop section a couple or more years back...

[nzspokes]

Well thats just shit. Glad you are not badly banged up.

Yes Ive noted that corner had a lot of bleed. Mind If I borrow the pic?

Im currently trying to find out if Wet and Forget will get rid of moss on roads that I travel on. If it wont make the road slippery after application I may wander up in the car with a sprayer.

[Mike.Gayner]

Ride like a wimp on bends (taking notice of speed advisory signs where posted) and you may have a chance of missing such slippery patches but ride like Rossi and there is little chance.

Please just fuck off. Permanently.

[Jeeper]

Glad you are mostly ok Mike. I'm sure quality gear helped with minimising injury to you. Some insurance companies do cover damage to riding gear in the policy. If one is claiming for damage to bike, just double checking can't hurt.

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[FJRider]

Was it this corner ... ???


https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.9468689,175.1465957,3a,75y,279.7h,93.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVApRvyVIZ0DWMAiAt_AVnA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

[FJRider]

Council should put up a sign... that'd help... to stop bikers before they go over the bank...

They did ... you can't miss it ... <_<

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.9468621,175.1464552,3a,15y,242.72h,84.17t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWHnQjwpVfRCRiOTKdRzzEQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

[Moise]

Ride like a wimp on bends (taking notice of speed advisory signs where posted) and you may have a chance of missing such slippery patches but ride like Rossi and there is little chance.
That may have been exactly the problem. The sun is right in your eyes on those corners at this time of year, so I take it easy. Maybe if I'd been riding like normal it would have been fine.

[Moise]

Was it this corner ... ???


https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.9468689,175.1465957,3a,75y,279.7h,93.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVApRvyVIZ0DWMAiAt_AVnA!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656
No, the next RH corner. No advisory, and I used to take it quite fast until the stones disappeared over the last 2-3 years. It's a great sequence of corners, because there's the 35 RH, a faster LH, then the one where I crashed.

The bike was in 3rd when I picked it up, so I doubt I was doing much more than 60 - 70? No braking into the corner and maintaining speed when the bike slid.

[Moise]

Well thats just shit. Glad you are not badly banged up.

Yes Ive noted that corner had a lot of bleed. Mind If I borrow the pic?

Im currently trying to find out if Wet and Forget will get rid of moss on roads that I travel on. If it wont make the road slippery after application I may wander up in the car with a sprayer.
Yeah, feel free to use the photo.

Maybe some of the ACC levy could go to spraying Wet and Forget.

[Ocean1]

No, the next RH corner. No advisory, and I used to take it quite fast until the stones disappeared over the last 2-3 years. It's a great sequence of corners, because there's the 35 RH, a faster LH, then the one where I crashed.

The bike was in 3rd when I picked it up, so I doubt I was doing much more than 60 - 70? No braking into the corner and maintaining speed when the bike slid.

What a bastard. Very little chance of saving the front under those conditions.

I've noticed boats trailing bilgewater all over the road before now, never really thought of it as a hazard, but from a bikers' perspective it most certainly is.

The local council might be persuaded to invest in a sign asking boaties to re-fit plugs before leaving the ramp, but you'd probably have to convince them it was the correct practice. Not that the boaties are likely to take too much notice.

And fuck knows how you deal with it on a nation wide scale...

[Maha]

The where's why's and how's woulda' shoulda' coulda' can be discussed endlessly, fact is it's a motorcycling indecent (thankfully not an accident) that can happen with any foreign substance on the road surface. Your sense of smell can help with a spilled substances like cow shit, but some spillages can not be seen or smelled until you're standing beside your bike thinking ''what the hell just happened there''.

You could always hand it over to nzspokes pending new charity venture.
''Im currently trying to find out if Wet and Forget will get rid of moss on roads that I travel on. If it wont make the road slippery after application I may wander up in the car with a sprayer.''

''If there's something strange on the road ahead, who you gonna call, Moss Busters''

[jellywrestler]

So, you're riding into this corner. Sunday afternoon just after the climb north from Kawakawa Bay.

The bike on the roadside is a clue. you rang star555 to get the slippery shit cleaned up?

[Honest Andy]

you rang star555 to get the slippery shit cleaned up?

Too late, it'd already rained again... (Auckland eh... :wait:)

[FJRider]

No, the next RH corner. No advisory, and I used to take it quite fast until the stones disappeared over the last 2-3 years. It's a great sequence of corners, because there's the 35 RH, a faster LH, then the one where I crashed.

The bike was in 3rd when I picked it up, so I doubt I was doing much more than 60 - 70? No braking into the corner and maintaining speed when the bike slid.

I call bullshit. Check YOUR photo. I looked at the next TWO right hand bends ... there were NO yellow/black arrow corner indicating signs and no next right hand corner in the background ... which both are clearly seen in your photo.

The next RH bends show (or need) neither.

Perhaps ... speed WAS a factor in your incident ... and you did say 60 - 70 km/hr (in a 35 km/hr corner). Then have the gall to blame the council for a shit road ... :killingme

[FJRider]

But many on here except for me will say taking notice of those signs is for wimps and I would imagine if you were on a group ride and were the only one to take notice of the sign you would be laughed at by the rest of the group.

The speed highest advisory sign is 95 km/hr. the advised speed warnings drop in 10 km/hr increments ... ie: 95, 85, 75, 65 ... and so on down to 15 km/hr. The lower the number ... the more notice and the closer you need to be at the advised speed. eg: Try doing a 15 km/hr corner at 20 km/hr.

The riders ability and road conditions are the important factors in safe corner speed. The OP's photo showed a wet road and smooth wheel tracks in the seal.

[Honest Andy]

:facepalm: noooo don't say that, you'll only give cass "traction" (wait for it...)

(P.S. that google maps shot is 5 years old... things might have changed... the state of the seal CERTAINLY has)

[Honest Andy]

toldya :laugh::bleh:

[Moise]

I call bullshit. Check YOUR photo. I looked at the next TWO right hand bends ... there were NO yellow/black arrow corner indicating signs and no next right hand corner in the background ... which both are clearly seen in your photo.

The next RH bends show (or need) neither.

Perhaps ... speed WAS a factor in your incident ... and you did say 60 - 70 km/hr (in a 35 km/hr corner). Then have the gall to blame the council for a shit road ... :killingme
Yeah, you're right. I have another photo taken the other way that shows the Beachcomber Motel sign, which has changed since the Google street view photo. The link shows the corner entry, whereas my photo is past the apex. I just don't recall seeing that huge 35 sign, so assumed it was the next corner. Thanks for pointing that out.

Great example of how reliable memory can be!

I wasn't going that fast then, probably more like 50 - 60, which certainly isn't too quick for that corner. I didn't accelerate much up the hill towards the corner as I knew I'd be riding into the sun.

[FJRider]

Yeah, you're right. I have another photo taken the other way that shows the Beachcomber Motel sign, which has changed since the Google street view photo. The link shows the corner entry, whereas my photo is past the apex. I just don't recall seeing that huge 35 sign, so assumed it was the next corner. Thanks for pointing that out.

Great example of how reliable memory can be!

I wasn't going that fast then, probably more like 50 - 60, which certainly isn't too quick for that corner. I didn't accelerate much up the hill towards the corner as I knew I'd be riding into the sun.

Those "huge" 35 km signs ... is an indicator/WARNING of many past accidents on a corner. "Not seeing" one in the future may kill you ... regardless of the road or weather conditions.

A poor memory didn't cause you to miss the sign ... if you did miss seeing it ... get your eyes checked. The sign was big enough to blot out the sun ...

If you have reported it to the police/council (non injury accidents must be reported to Police within 7 days) ... you could be charged with careless/dangerous driving. If you just complain to the council ... THEY will notify police if they think they have no fault.

The ball is in your court ... ACC are just waiting for more ammunition against motorcyclists.

[Moise]

Those "huge" 35 km signs ... is an indicator/WARNING of many past accidents on a corner. "Not seeing" one in the future may kill you ... regardless of the road or weather conditions.

A poor memory didn't cause you to miss the sign ... if you did miss seeing it ... get your eyes checked. The sign was big enough to blot out the sun ...

If you have reported it to the police/council (non injury accidents must be reported to Police within 7 days) ... you could be charged with careless/dangerous driving. If you just complain to the council ... THEY will notify police if they think they have no fault.

The ball is in your court ... ACC are just waiting for more ammunition against motorcyclists.
Take it easy mate. It's not good for your health to wind yourself up like that

I DIDN'T NOTICE THE SIGN AFTER I CAME OFF. THAT IS WHY I THOUGHT I WAS AT THE NEXT CORNER.

I know that corner has a 35 advisory. Yes, you'd have to be blind to miss the sign, but no it definitely doesn't blot out the sun.

[FJRider]

:facepalm: noooo don't say that, you'll only give cass "traction" (wait for it...)

(P.S. that google maps shot is 5 years old... things might have changed... the state of the seal CERTAINLY has)

That 35 km sign would only have got bigger ... not removed. The photo was taken in dry weather from a different angle. But granted ... it could only have got worse. It wasn't looking that flash on Google anyway.

You ride to the conditions on the day ... not to the conditions you rode it on a previous time (things DO change). An admission of "Not seeing" the huge 35 sign is admitting poor observational skills. 50 - 70 km/hr is not too slow to be killed on a corner.

Another "Cassina" maybe .. ???

[Maha]

Those "huge" 35 km signs ... is an indicator/WARNING of many past accidents on a corner. "Not seeing" one in the future may kill you ... regardless of the road or weather conditions.

A poor memory didn't cause you to miss the sign ... if you did miss seeing it ... get your eyes checked. The sign was big enough to blot out the sun ...

If you have reported it to the police/council (non injury accidents must be reported to Police within 7 days) ... you could be charged with careless/dangerous driving. If you just complain to the council ... THEY will notify police if they think they have no fault.

The ball is in your court ... ACC are just waiting for more ammunition against motorcyclists.

I have missed one, no I think I saw it but by the time I had registered/calculated the safe corner speed of 25 I was at the corner, almost needed to use the left indicator. It was a left hander between Waihi and Whangamata heading north.

[FJRider]

I made a claim about a year or so ago that speed advisory signs were put there as a result of the number of crashes on a particular bend and someone replied back saying that accidents were not the reason for them but gave a reason that had something to do with physics.

It was just another of your stupid claims in ignorance ... the usual small signs are not there as an indicator of the number of accidents. LARGE advisory signs with arrows on the signs ...and small signs with directional arrows on the outside of corners ... are.

The usual advisory signs are small and shaped like this .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_Zealand_PW-25_(35_kmh).svg

Physics is used to find the advisory limit.

[FJRider]

You have a poor memory of my posts as I have said on here numerous times I take notice of those signs but many on here dont as they do not want to be known as the wimp on their group rides.

I take notice of LARGE advisory signs with arrows ... but I dont ignore (or totally disregard) the small ones either. and especially if I am unfamiliar with the road.


Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups on the road.

[FJRider]

The comments on here about it over a year or so ago said nothing about any advisory signs being put up due to accidents. How would the public in general know the difference anyway as an arrow symbol does not symbolise death but a cross does and maybe there should be crosses put up so people know they are approching a corner where they could die if they do not take notice of the sign.

Not ALL accidents result in death ... otherwise you would be dead after your first dog ... :killingme

If the cross is at a corner ... it might not be much of a warning ... and probably a little late. LARGE REFLECTIVE SIGNS WITH ARROWS ARE (should be) ... an effective warning ... :brick:

But not if your name is Cassina ... apparently ... :brick:

[FJRider]

No not to replace the arrow just in addition. Dont they say crosses on the side of the road where people have actually died have a slowing down effect. So on bends as well may also work in addition to arrows. Riders under pressure to keep up or to play Rossi will ignore any signage though. Slap them with $1000 ACC premiums if they come off and are still able to ride again maybe.

They may slow down AFTER they see them. Not BEFORE the problem area.

Not all accidents/deaths occur in corners ... some occur on straight roads. With no other vehicle involved.

The OP gave no indication he was with another rider ... or was under pressure to travel at a speed he was not comfortable with.

He said he knew the corner had a 35 km/hr advisory sign (how could you miss it ??) ... but by his own admission ignored it. 60 - 70 km/hr into a 35 km/hr corner on rising road .. on a wet road ... into a setting sun.

He's alive so a good outcome.

Has HE learned anything ... unlikely.

Will he do it again ... probably not on that corner ... ;)

[nzspokes]

They may slow down AFTER they see them. Not BEFORE the problem area.

Not all accidents/deaths occur in corners ... some occur on straight roads. With no other vehicle involved.

The OP gave no indication he was with another rider ... or was under pressure to travel at a speed he was not comfortable with.

He said he knew the corner had a 35 km/hr advisory sign (how could you miss it ??) ... but by his own admission ignored it. 60 - 70 km/hr into a 35 km/hr corner on rising road .. on a wet road ... into a setting sun.

He's alive so a good outcome.

Has HE learned anything ... unlikely.

Will he do it again ... probably not on that corner ... ;)

That corner is easy at 60 to 70. It was not raining. Just bilge water from a boat in the centre. Speed was not that high at a guess as the damage to the rider and bike was light. The road was the root cause here. Time for Councils to fix roads not just put up signs.

A Roadcraft rider would have gone into the corner on the left hand side and may well have missed that water, but you cant expect all riders to know Roadcraft lines etc.

[nzspokes]

I read once that corners were the biggest killer in single motorcycle crashes. I wonder if guys that go to riding school are told that.

Captain fucking Obvious strikes again.....

[FJRider]

That corner is easy at 60 to 70. It was not raining. Just bilge water from a boat in the centre. Speed was not that high at a guess as the damage to the rider and bike was light. The road was the root cause here. Time for Councils to fix roads not just put up signs.

A Roadcraft rider would have gone into the corner on the left hand side and may well have missed that water, but you cant expect all riders to know Roadcraft lines etc.

I noticed something while studying that corner ... the previous corner was a 35 km corner in a 70 km/hr zone. Then this sign ... which always gets the throttle hand moving.

He said the bike was in third when he picked it up ... was he riding the R1 he claims to have in each of his posts ... ?? Do you think he'd stick at 70 km/hr to the next 35 km corner ... ???

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-36.9468424,175.147281,3a,53y,260.45h,82.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-rappJxBQuKJPbWjpNxr0g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I doubt it was just about the lack of roadcraft that bit him ... just too much speed on a wet road.

He'll probably tell you he knows the road too ... :rolleyes:

[FJRider]

I read once that corners were the biggest killer in single motorcycle crashes. I wonder if guys that go to riding school are told that.

Actually it's referred to as loss of control/run off road ... in 2016, 36% of motorcycle fatal accidents on the 100 km/hr open road were from this.

Loss of control on right hand bend accounted for 13% of accidents ... left hand bends an additional 9%. And strangely enough ... a further 10% lost control on straight roads. There must be more Cassina's out there than I thought ... :facepalm:

[FJRider]

Captain fucking Obvious strikes again.....

Remember ... statistics only show reported accidents. Will the OP report his accident I wonder ... ???

[Maha]

Remember ... statistics only show reported accidents. Will the OP report his accident I wonder ... ???

Hospital waiting room some years ago, an Intern (or such like) stopped in front of a family who were their because there son had been admitted to the ED. One of the family members had rode his motorbike to the hospital and was holding his helmet, the Intern (or such like) was asking questions about the son in the ED and wrote down that it was an accident involving a motorcycle, it was pointed out that that was not case but the Intern (or such like) said ''I have already wrote in down''.

It was probably added to the statistics.

[FJRider]

The difference between my crashes is that they were with things moving which involves a substantial degree of luck to try and avoid which is dependent on how far away you are when the moving object gets in your way. With a road or bend unless your bike develops a fault you are in a far greater position to swerve/brake/lower speed than if the object that gets in your way is moving towards you. For riders that have loss of control problems when they ride riding school would definitly help them. How controlable your bike is would depend on its size and power too.
It has been said MLC guys buy bikes more likely to be too big and uncontrollable than non MLC guys.

The part of my post that you quoted was single vehicle accidents.

[Katman]

Speed was not that high at a guess as the damage to the rider and bike was light. The road was the root cause here.

What a shame he wasn't going in the other direction.

You could have blamed the sidestand spring.

[FJRider]

I read once that corners were the biggest killer in single motorcycle crashes. I wonder if guys that go to riding school are told that.

Even guy's that have had sex education ... can still get their girlfriend pregnant.

Knowledge is useless if you don't use it ... part of the "It wont happen to me" syndrome ...

[Jeeper]

I just really appreciate broad sweeping generalisations, with no or little actual comprehension of anything valuable.

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[eldog]

Even guy's that have had sex education ... can still get their girlfriend pregnant..

That's buggered that idea :facepalm:

[caseye]

That's buggered that idea :facepalm:

Yep!
Butt, No Babies.

[Maha]

I just really appreciate broad sweeping generalisations, with no or little actual comprehension of anything valuable.

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Seems the OP feels the same.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/183446-Had-enough-gone-for-good-this-time

[pritch]

Seems the OP feels the same.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/183446-Had-enough-gone-for-good-this-time

Yeah that's a pity. There was a fair bit of 'holier than thou', and then there was Cassina. None of which was particularly helpful.

Normally when you jaffas are waffling on about a piece of road I ignore the thread because I don't know the road. Not this time, Miranda to Papakura is familiar territory.
The most difficult corner I found was the one south of Orere, heading north, by the tunnel houses. It tightens bigly - and so did the sphincter until I figured out where it was.

[nzspokes]

I just really appreciate broad sweeping generalisations, with no or little actual comprehension of anything valuable.

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New to KB then?

[Jeeper]

New to KB then?
I don't appreciate them, but I don't take them to heart either. Ive been on enough forums since late 80s to "block" out people I don't want to read comments from anymore. KB has some good characters, that keep me coming back to learn from.

If you really want to test your sanity and patience, try starting an argument on pirate4x4.com or some US Jeep forums.


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