The AA

[Voltaire]

AA Directions arrived in the post for my Son as I cancelled mine some time back with a rant about their anti motorcycle stance.

I had a quick flick thru it and was surprised to see a full page ad from ACC promoting the Ride Forever courses.

My Son did the bronze course last week in Rotorua and was very positive about it and booked for the next one, at $20 for a full day its good value.

Apparently they are worth $250.

I feel less bad about paying $500 a year for my 35 year old BMW.

Even more surprising was a three page spread on getting your learners for older riders.

AA are now in the Motorcycle Training business ( no cynical comments please :innocent:)

Goes on to say how the Driving School GM is a motorcycle rider and that the AA do care about us :grouphug:

There is a blurb on ATGATT shared with an add for a Retirement Village , so if your reading this Cassina all your bases are covered.:innocent:

I also renewed my AA membership as they probably need to recoup the $700 for transporting my bike from Timaru to Auckland.:niceone:

Cover page has article on the 100 people killed in cars not wearing seatbelts, or 42% of the total.

30% of drivers killed in crashes between 2004 and 2009 had some form of impairing substance in their blood.

Makes you think about who you are sharing the road with.

[Swoop]

Cover page has article on the 100 people killed in cars not wearing seatbelts, or 42% of the total.
So if police targeted seat-belt wearing and red-light runners instead of speed, they would be happily seeing a decrease in the road toll.
No surprises there.

[Jeeper]

Red light runners can be captured through cameras. And they should be. I detest them.

Catching people not wearing seatbelts is a bit more difficult. Education only works for people who want to learn.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[FJRider]

So if police targeted seat-belt wearing and red-light runners instead of speed, they would be happily seeing a decrease in the road toll.
No surprises there.

Speed just gets you to the scene of your accident quicker ... :shifty:

Obviously ... it didn't work out well for the 54% that were wearing their safety belts ... :confused:

[YellowDog]

Cover page has article on the 100 people killed in cars not wearing seatbelts, or 42% of the total.


Motorcyclists don't have to wear a seatbelt :banana:

But joking aside, I have also noticed a turnaround in the AAs's bad attitude :mad:

[rastuscat]

So if police targeted seat-belt wearing and red-light runners instead of speed, they would be happily seeing a decrease in the road toll.
No surprises there.

Do I really have to re-state the facts? Seatbelts, speed and drink/drive have been joint priorities since 1993.

[pritch]

I got a questionnaire from the AA, and having some spare time, I filled it in. In the notes at the bottom I made some comments about how motorcyclists were not the enemy and that a lot of members owned motorcycles. I'm not so sanguine as to believe I made any difference, they never acknowledged the comments.

On another occasion a local AA official made disparaging comments about motorcyclists in the press, I sent an email to the effect that he should stick to what he knew, whatever that was.

That copy of the magazine is here, having read this thread I might take it out of its bag.

[jim.cox]

Many many moons ago I used to belong to the AA.

Then I realised they were selling their address list, and therefore me, to spammers, junk mailers and other rubbish.

These days they are just more open about being a marketeer.

And I do disagree with a whole pile of what they say in the media.

Guess I'm just a biker - not an Automobilist

[swbarnett]

Do I really have to re-state the facts? Seatbelts, speed and drink/drive have been joint priorities since 1993.
The problem is that, although I'm sure the above is true, it doesn't look that way to publicly. When did you last see a seat-belt or drink-drive camera?

[GazzaH]

The problem is that, although I'm sure the above is true, it doesn't look that way to publicly. When did you last see a seat-belt or drink-drive camera?

I'm watching the footage from several, right now: it's one of the many ride-with-the-police/bodycam documentaries. No seatbelt, on the phone, erratic driving and other things are good reasons for them to pull someone over for a little chat.

[swbarnett]

I'm watching the footage from several, right now: it's one of the many ride-with-the-police/bodycam documentaries. No seatbelt, on the phone, erratic driving and other things are good reasons for them to pull someone over for a little chat.
Fair point. Still requires an officer to be present though. As far as I know speed (and perhaps red-light running) is the only offence that you can be ticketed for by solely electronic means. I honestly don't believe the same effort has been put into finding a ubiquitous way to spot the non-wearing of a seat-belt or a driver under the influence.

Personally I couldn't care less if someone doesn't wear a seat-belt. Their body, their choice. Driving under the influence on the other hand is a danger to all.

[GazzaH]

Given the way CCTV cameras are spreading and image analysis is improving, it may well be possible to automate checks for all sort of infringements, soon if not already.

Imagine the wealth of data available from driverless cars for example. How long before we all have little black box recorders?

From there, the Thought Police are just around the corner.

[Swoop]

Do I really have to re-state the facts? Seatbelts, speed and drink/drive have been joint priorities since 1993.

It appears that the statistics suggest otherwise. Catching people is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Getting the public to belt up would not only save lives but it would also "meet KPI" targets of reducing the road toll.
Talking to the converted, I know eh Rastus!


We get propaganda on the drink-drive culture, but very little about seatbelts. Perhaps the Scottish Restaurant needs to re-release their "make it click" campaign.

[rastuscat]

The problem is that, although I'm sure the above is true, it doesn't look that way to publicly. When did you last see a seat-belt or drink-drive camera?

Booze Buses don't target speed.

Motorbike cops write mainly traffic light, cellphone and seatbelt tickets.

When I started as a baby traffic cop on a bike seatbelts were our bread and butter. When I left 27 years later seatbelts were still bread and butter offences.

If any of you know the system, bikes are best at D, F and M series offences.

[rastuscat]

Booze Buses don't target speed.

Motorbike cops write mainly traffic light, cellphone and seatbelt tickets.

When I started as a baby traffic cop on a bike seatbelts were our bread and butter. When I left 27 years later seatbelts were still bread and butter offences.

If any of you know the system, bikes are best at D, F and M series offences.

Certainly it's the perception that is the problem.

[BadSarah]

I am an AA member (they have got me out of a few sticky spots, and even brought me petrol for my bike) and a firm believer in seatbelts. I also did one of those ride forever courses when I first got my ST, mostly because it scared the shit out of me. It still does. Anyway I'm glad I did that course, the emergency braking part in particular. On my trip around the South I came to one of the many one-way bridges (a very long one) they have down there and several vehicles were approaching the far end, so I nailed it to get over with them. Some clown in a campervan obviously didn't know how one-way works and just drove on at the other end causing everyone to stop abruptly. I stopped about an inch from the last car and felt my back wheel drop back to the ground. And, no, I have never actually had the ABS kick in, they tried to get me to do it on the course, but I just can't bring myself to brake that hard. To sum up: ride forever, seatbelts and the AA are all good as far as I am concerned.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[pritch]

I'm watching the footage from several, right now:.

I have seen such on YouTube. Sadly all were from Australia, none were from here.

[oldiebutagoody]

Many many moons ago I used to belong to the AA.

Then I realised they were selling their address list, and therefore me, to spammers, junk mailers and other rubbish.

These days they are just more open about being a marketeer.

And I do disagree with a whole pile of what they say in the media.

Guess I'm just a biker - not an Automobilist

Ditto

(20 characters etc etc)

[merv]

30% of drivers killed in crashes between 2004 and 2009 had some form of impairing substance in their blood.



So damn near a third of them. Can I imagine that number would go up if marijuana is legalised and I will have to face a larger number of people coming towards me in a far from competent state? In all the legalise debate going on lately I've not heard one word of how the system will deal with users that then decide to go out on the roads. Scary shit really.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh dear - my hobby horse...

Worst - most dishonest organisation I ever dealt with professionally... Dropped my membership after that - dislike them intensely

[Swoop]

It appears that the statistics suggest otherwise. Catching people is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Getting the public to belt up would not only save lives but it would also "meet KPI" targets of reducing the road toll.
Talking to the converted, I know eh Rastus!


We get propaganda on the drink-drive culture, but very little about seatbelts. Perhaps the Scottish Restaurant needs to re-release their "make it click" campaign.

"Well fuck me said the Duchess", look who is attempting to do something about seatbelts.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11901649



I can also foresee, if there is a decrease in road deaths, the donut muncher's bosses will claim the decrease is because of their focus on "speed kills" propaganda approach.

[Jeff Sichoe]

So damn near a third of them. Can I imagine that number would go up if marijuana is legalised and I will have to face a larger number of people coming towards me in a far from competent state? In all the legalise debate going on lately I've not heard one word of how the system will deal with users that then decide to go out on the roads. Scary shit really.

Even the most stoned retard has better reactions than most people over 80 still driving.

[SuperRetard]

Sadly I agree with this so much.... Having been on the receiving end of oldies vehicle, who "Couldnt see past the end of her farm ute bonnet" I will take no notice of what the say until they apply the rules fairly.

Being able to "keep your independence" is no fair excuse to kill people.



Even the most stoned retard has better reactions than most people over 80 still driving.

[Voltaire]

Even the most stoned retard has better reactions than most people over 80 still driving.


Can you sit a driving test when your stoned?

I do like that add on TV where they run into a traffic Island.:laugh:

[T.W.R]

So damn near a third of them. Can I imagine that number would go up if marijuana is legalised and I will have to face a larger number of people coming towards me in a far from competent state? In all the legalise debate going on lately I've not heard one word of how the system will deal with users that then decide to go out on the roads. Scary shit really.

Weed is just a very small part of what's actually being used out there I hope you realise :yes:
Impairing substances cover everything not just one particular item so don't pigeon hole it.
Example is the case that's just had a conviction in the last couple of days of the driver who nailed that skateboarder :yes: prescription pain killers; bet if there was a conclusive assessment of that in particular there'd be some staggering numbers exposed ;)


Can you sit a driving test when your stoned?
I do like that add on TV where they run into a traffic Island.:laugh:

A lot of people can do things some people can't when impaired by different substances...metabolism has a major influence how some people can operate when in a altered state.
That ad is just broad coverage stereotyping :yes: There's plenty of pen pushing suits and business owners who smoke and a lot who do much worse on a more than daily basis :yes:

[Grumph]

Can you sit a driving test when your stoned?

I do like that add on TV where they run into a traffic Island.:laugh:

Actually saw that happen in front of me some years back. Stupid woman panicked at an empty plastic bucket rolling across the road and beached her morrie 1100 on the island she hit. Stop and help ? - fuck no.

[FJRider]

... prescription pain killers; bet if there was a conclusive assessment of that in particular there'd be some staggering numbers exposed ;)

A lot of people can do things some people can't when impaired by different substances...metabolism has a major influence how some people can operate when in a altered state.


One of the most common side effect of many prescription medicines (and NOT just pain killers) is that it MAY cause drowsiness ... and often told (and ignored by most) that you should not drive when taking them.

It's just a "lucky dip" by how much any individual is influenced by taking such medicines ... and for how long after taking them.

[sidecar bob]

Can you sit a driving test when your stoned?

I do like that add on TV where they run into a traffic Island.:laugh:

My worker thinks my historic stoner driving story should be turned into an ad that would kick that ones arse.
I had a Morris j4 van with a hell of a big end knock. The engine cover was wrapped with a foam rubber child booster seat turned upside down & an old sleeping bag.
Stoning along of a Sunday evening commuting between hanging with uni mates at Palmerston North & Tauranga, the big end noise would become a source of great anxiousness, stoked by the stoneage.
So we would remove the makeshift insulation & lift the engine cover between the seats & watch the engine for a while, well nearly being deafened by the big end knock.
After several minutes we would close it down & wrap the engine cover in the insulation & marvel at how quiet the big end was now.
As a non stoner of 27 odd years, I think doing that now would have the opposite effect, that's if I was stupid enough to take a totally buggered van that far just for the weekend.

[Jeff Sichoe]

Can you sit a driving test when your stoned?:

This sort of hits on the point, much like drink driving, you can never legislate a perfect one rule fits all...

But, if weed is made legal, it is critical that a roadside test that can determine intoxication vs toked on a j at the company bbq, is available to officers.

Currently the best salvia test can only tell the officer that weed has touched thine lips in the last 24 hours or so, which imo does not signify someone incapable of operating a vehicle...

[swbarnett]

One of the most common side effect of many prescription medicines (and NOT just pain killers) is that it MAY cause drowsiness ... and often told (and ignored by most) that you should not drive when taking them.

It's just a "lucky dip" by how much any individual is influenced by taking such medicines ... and for how long after taking them.
Indeed it is. I took Tramadol like it was water for a while. I didn't change my driving habits one iota as it had no more affect on my alertness than a sugar pill. Only later did I find out that some people simply can't drive if they take it.

[Cosmik de Bris]

Indeed it is. I took Tramadol like it was water for a while. I didn't change my driving habits one iota as it had no more affect on my alertness than a sugar pill.

Or so you thought. How did you test it?

Cheers

[Honest Andy]

Or so you thought. How did you test it?

Cheers

Good point :niceone:

[swbarnett]

Or so you thought. How did you test it?

Cheers
I know what it feels like when I'm impaired (my one and only night when I got mildly drunk after 5 long island ice teas and 13 B52s). On tramadol I didn't deviate from the norm in the slightest.

I drove trouble free for several weeks. I was still able to parallel park into tight spaces with accuracy. I also spent time in my workshop using an unguarded table saw and retained all my fingers.

The story I heard from a colleague was that they could hardly get in the car, let alone drive.

[FJRider]

So damn near a third of them. Can I imagine that number would go up if marijuana is legalised and I will have to face a larger number of people coming towards me in a far from competent state?

If you think legality will increase drivers under the influence of drugs ... do you think making alcohol illegal will reduce the number of drunk drivers on the roads .. ???


In all the legalise debate going on lately I've not heard one word of how the system will deal with users that then decide to go out on the roads. Scary shit really.

Probably ... how they're dealing with it now. Drug tests are simple and quick. Doctors are not required to do the test.

The only changes to now ... random stops for breath tests ... could include drug test as well.

[haydes55]

This sort of hits on the point, much like drink driving, you can never legislate a perfect one rule fits all...

But, if weed is made legal, it is critical that a roadside test that can determine intoxication vs toked on a j at the company bbq, is available to officers.

Currently the best salvia test can only tell the officer that weed has touched thine lips in the last 24 hours or so, which imo does not signify someone incapable of operating a vehicle...Why not copy the yanks and do a roadside impairment test. Record a suspected impaired driver attempt a few basic tasks (walk a straight line, read a poster at a distance, say "slippery snakes nipples" without laughing etc). If you can design a test which anyone could do sober, but once impaired you would struggle (even better is it tests reaction speed, coordination and vision at which you need for driving).

Booze bus can still use breathalizers but if anyone has bloodshot eyes, swerves, drives erratically, looks tired or smells of drugs, pull them off the road for a 2 minute test. If they fail that, drug test for proof in court. If that's clean and they were just tired, then no drink driving charge, just a impaired driving charge with a small penalty. If you're stoned but pass the impairment test, or if you've had 5 beers but pass, then you obviously handle your poison better than the average bear and aren't actually a danger.

Plus I'm sure some dim witted idiots would fail completely sober and those people should be given bus tickets.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[T.W.R]

Why not copy the yanks and do a roadside impairment test. Record a suspected impaired driver attempt a few basic tasks (walk a straight line, read a poster at a distance, say "slippery snakes nipples" without laughing etc). If you can design a test which anyone could do sober, but once impaired you would struggle (even better is it tests reaction speed, coordination and vision at which you need for driving).

Booze bus can still use breathalizers but if anyone has bloodshot eyes, swerves, drives erratically, looks tired or smells of drugs, pull them off the road for a 2 minute test. If they fail that, drug test for proof in court. If that's clean and they were just tired, then no drink driving charge, just a impaired driving charge with a small penalty. If you're stoned but pass the impairment test, or if you've had 5 beers but pass, then you obviously handle your poison better than the average bear and aren't actually a danger.

Plus I'm sure some dim witted idiots would fail completely sober and those people should be given bus tickets.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You should've worked in the open cast coal mines at Huntly in the mid 90s :pinch:
CoalCorp was running the gig but the actual extraction was done by Downer Construction when I was there, but CoalCorp had their own trucks shifting the coal from the mines to the railway etc
Their drivers of the dump trucks (mainly Cat 777s) were constantly off their heads :yes: and driving these trucks fully loaded & topped out on the haul roads (so carrying 70ton loads @ between 50-70km/h) and racing & drifting these machines while herbed up to the max.
The smoko prefabs, around the door way the roaches out numbered the ciggy butts 10-1 :yes:

[Cosmik de Bris]

I know what it feels like when I'm impaired

Yeah, well drinking half a bottle of whisky makes me more intelligent, I've noticed it many times.

Cheers

[swbarnett]

Yeah, well drinking half a bottle of whisky makes me more intelligent, I've noticed it many times.

Cheers
Of course I didn't only rely on my own self-assessment. My wife, among others, were fully in agreement.

It just seems that there are very few chemicals that have a drowsing affect on me (no that I've tried that many).

[russd7]

Yeah, well drinking half a bottle of whisky makes me more intelligent, I've noticed it many times.

Cheers

have solved a few of the worlds problems whilst consuming whiskey :yes:

[granstar]

have solved a few of the worlds problems whilst consuming whiskey :yes:

But you never solved where I hid the cap. Besides, the world problems simply do not get solved over a wine.

[russd7]

But you never solved where I hid the cap. Besides, the world problems simply do not get solved over a wine.

wasn't till the following afternoon i remembered they didn't have caps, the fuckers had corks, oh well, empty bottles don't need resealed

[granstar]

Musta been another victim http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v118/granstar/Granstar%20NZ/SAM_2122_zpsqjyetpay.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/granstar/media/Granstar%20NZ/SAM_2122_zpsqjyetpay.jpg.html)

[rastuscat]

Driving While Impaired is an offence in NZ.

It's based on a Compulsory Impairment Test.

Yet another topic KB seems to have little knowledge of.

[Voltaire]

Driving While Impaired is an offence in NZ.

It's based on a Compulsory Impairment Test.

Yet another topic KB seems to have little knowledge of.

Given the amount of drivers I see playing with their phones and general poor road skills/manners good luck enforcing that.

Appears many can't even put a seat belt on.

[awayatc]

Given the amount of drivers I see playing with their phones and general poor road skills/manners good luck enforcing that.

Appears many can't even put a seat belt on.


Or my pet hate....Random indicating/no indicating at roundabouts.....

Amount of police resources/enforcement I have seen in this or any other area of road safety policing?

Zero

The only positive contribution I see nz police make to road safety is their breathilising check points.

Apart from that the entire policing effort seems to be directed to speed tax collection.

Shamefull

[rastuscat]

Or my pet hate....Random indicating/no indicating at roundabouts.....

Amount of police resources/enforcement I have seen in this or any other area of road safety policing?

Zero

The only positive contribution I see nz police make to road safety is their breathilising check points.

Apart from that the entire policing effort seems to be directed to speed tax collection.

Shamefull

I was on a checkpoint close to a roundabout one day back in about 2008. A patrol bike was waiting at the roundabout, and a guy came straight through from the other direction, without indicating his exit. I happened to see the whole thing. It was one of those annoying things.

I stopped the guy and wrote him a ticket, failed to indicate exit from roundabout. Went to court, spent hours preparing the papers etc, guy turns up and lies his face off, JPs feel sorry for him, found not guilty.

If you ever wonder why cops don't prosecute some things, it's because the courts don't take it seriously.

[awayatc]

If we want to be serious about roadsafety , then
the whole kabudle needs a serious overhaul...from licencing up.
Appreciate the fact that individual police officers work within a system.
That system it self however is broken/defunct....

[skinman]

I once saw a cop indicating right while approaching a roundabout & go straight on. I really hate that & would have expected a cop to get it right. refrained from flipping him the bird

[Cosmik de Bris]

I was on a checkpoint close to a roundabout one day back in about 2008. A patrol bike was waiting at the roundabout, and a guy came straight through from the other direction, without indicating his exit. I happened to see the whole thing. It was one of those annoying things.

I stopped the guy and wrote him a ticket, failed to indicate exit from roundabout. Went to court, spent hours preparing the papers etc, guy turns up and lies his face off, JPs feel sorry for him, found not guilty.

If you ever wonder why cops don't prosecute some things, it's because the courts don't take it seriously.

Roundabouts are a real problem for signalling. If you are turning it is not so bad but if you are going through you have little time to signal. You have to wait until you are past the left entry and signal before you get to the exit, my car doesn't even do one blink in that time. Now you ar going to say one should slow down but in today's traffic you need to keep the traffic flowing. It makes more sense to me to signal left or if you are turning right, no signal means straight through. I think you are being particularly mean in giving a ticket for this when there are so many more infringements that get ignored.

Cheers

[Moi]

If we want to be serious about roadsafety , then
the whole kabudle needs a serious overhaul...from licencing up.
Appreciate the fact that individual police officers work within a system.
That system it self however is broken/defunct....

+1


As for roundabouts, okay not indicating is annoying if you're waiting to get onto the roundabout. But that's just discourteous driving... and very common...

I'd rather see traffic police dealing to actions that are dangerous, such as tailgating.

[GazzaH]

The speed, positioning and orientation of the vehicle is a pretty good indication of where it's headed, especially a bike. Indicators are handy for people joining the same roundabout -a clue as to whether the vehicle on the roundabout is planning to turn off before them or carry on past them - and provided they are sensible enough to wait until they are sure their way ahead is clear, no problem.

Oh, hang on a mo, sensible =/= NZ driving.

Cagers pulling out onto a roundabout in front of (side on to) oncoming bikes are more of a concern for bikers who don't clearly indicate that they are continuing around not turning off before. I'm always very wary of cagers approaching the roundabout at speed ahead of me: are they planning to keep going? Am I invisible? Do they care?

[Jeff Sichoe]

just make eye contact and people generally don't ram into you

[Moi]

just make eye contact and people generally don't ram into you

That would work, provided the vehicle's windows aren't covered in "privacy tint"... Yeah, I know the rules say something about from the B-pillar back but that doesn't stop some from tinting all the windows. And why is it not picked up at WoF time? Plus, you can't see through those vehicles to see what's happening up ahead or on their other side...