Changing from 2 bikes to 1 bike + 1 car

[MarkH]

I've thought long and hard and I've decided that one bike needs to go. Not completely a coincidence that this is the time of year that I get bills for both regos, 2 x $520 = $1040 and that stings a bit!

So, I've decided to keep the DR650 as my fun 'go anywhere' weekend bike and I'll be selling the ST1300. I'll definitely miss the big girl, tons of torque and capable of riding for a lot longer than I am.

I'm buying a Nissan Leaf to use primarily for the commute to work and back (70km total for the round trip) which will end up costing me >$2,000 less per year than using the ST1300. I added up the petrol, rego, tyres, oil & filters and compared that to $10-$15 worth of electricity per week + cheaper tyres that last longer. The total I worked out was between $2,000 and $2,300 per year. The rego alone is close to $450 dearer for a bike than a car that has good safety ratings. I guess I've been a little surprised about just how much cheaper I could be commuting.

If I was still commuting in Auckland there is no way I'd change from bike to car, no way in hell! But Morrinsville to Cambridge at 3am and then Cambridge to Morrinsville any time between 11am and 1pm (depending on how busy the day is) can't be compared to Auckland commuting. I've been away from Auckland for 4 1/2 years and hadn't driven a car since over 3 years before that - it has taken ~ 8 years of not driving a car in Auckland for the emotional scars to heal!

Of course there are a bunch of advantages to driving a car compared to riding a bike but I'll definitely be keeping one bike so I can enjoy my weekends and my holidays. If anything I'll probably enjoy riding a motorcycle more once I'm not having to do that every day to get to work.

I am thinking that I'll maybe trade in the DR650 on an African Twin, but that is probably around 3 years away. I'm thinking that an adventure/tourer would be just the right thing to travel around NZ. Until then I'll use my DR650 as an adventure bike.

I guess more of you guys own a car as well as the bike than those that just own a bike, but for me I sold my last car around 8 years ago when I was living in Auckland and I didn't regret that decision. But now with a run of rainy weather I'm kinda glad I'm getting a car again although I haven't regretted getting in lots of riding over the last few years. I guess now I'm getting bored of the run to work and back, it isn't the fun side of riding just going over the same roads every day for over 4 years. I do remember my first rego when I got the four hundy in '08, it cost $275 back then but after that the bastards really cranked up the ACC levy on bikes.

[AllanB]

Anything with a engine is good.

Cars are especially good in the middle of winter.

[JimO]

eventually you will be paying RUCs

[BMWST?]

eventually you will be paying RUCs

including extra ACC levies.There is a ACC levy component in the pump price of petrol.Not so for diesel or electricicty

[rastuscat]

I've been browsing electric cars and bikes. Just waiting for more choice.

[jim.cox]

I looked long and hard at electric bikes before buying the DR-Z

Both would get me to work with a smile

The prices are both about the same

I like the idea of zipping quietly along

But the DR-Z offers just so much more in terms of flexibility and range

[MarkH]

I've been browsing electric cars and bikes. Just waiting for more choice.

If you aren't in a hurry the amount of choice over the next 5 years is going to increase drastically compared to now.

For bikes: I'd happily change to an electric bike once there is a major advance in battery technology. A 13kWh Zero DSR would be OK, but a bit limited for travelling the country - if they could put a 48kWh battery in the same place with the same weight then I'd definitely be interested in buying one. I'm not sure if this could happen or not because it is hard to find information on the capacity of future batteries (solid state, metal-air, etc).

For cars: There is already a car that has a 580km range now, this is easily enough to travel around and get from fast charger to fast charger. Sure that car is stupid expensive, but as battery prices drop that range will become available on more reasonably priced cars. I'd be happy if my next EV had 350+ km of range. Already you could drive from Auckland to Wellington and back with an EV that only has a 130km range, there are enough chargers now and more are being added all the time (you would need a lot of stops though). For my home-work-home commute I wont need a fast charger (although there is one in Cambridge anyway) because I can just plug into a standard wall socket at home and be charged in ~5 hours.

To go from home to Auckland I was wondering about the logistics. I have friends in Onehunga and the trip is around 135km each way, my new car has a range of 130-150km. It seems that it would be doable if I drive a bit slow, but it would be close and I'm not sure about my anxiety levels if cutting it fine. I looked at plugshare (a site that shows where the chargers are) and saw a charger at the halfway point (Te Kauwhata) so now I know that if I just stop there and plug in for 10 minutes I can get to my destination very easily without having to drive slowly. It is a myth that you have to take a long time to charge - 30min for 0%-100% times means that you only need 12 minutes to take a car from 40% - 80% which is often all you would need.

[MarkH]

eventually you will be paying RUCs

It is still drastically cheaper to drive an EV. Right now I'm looking at no RUC for 3 years and after that there is a decent chance that they will make the RUC cheaper than what diesel cars currently pay because they will still want to encourage EV car uptake.

[JimO]

It is still drastically cheaper to drive an EV. Right now I'm looking at no RUC for 3 years and after that there is a decent chance that they will make the RUC cheaper than what diesel cars currently pay because they will still want to encourage EV car uptake.you hope.....

[rastuscat]

If you look at the Zero DSR on their site you'll see a few promo videos. One of them is a guy riding his Zero around Wellington.

I contacted the company via their site, and they got back to me. They don't sell to NZ, the guy must have privately imported it. They .mentioned not knowing the legality of electric bikes in NZ.

BMW and Harley have electric bikes already. I'm looking a couple of years down the track, so it's quite intetesting to watch progress.

[rastuscat]

All that said, I'm also looking forward to the return of two strokes.

[nzspokes]

If you look at the Zero DSR on their site you'll see a few promo videos. One of them is a guy riding his Zero around Wellington.

I contacted the company via their site, and they got back to me. They don't sell to NZ, the guy must have privately imported it. They .mentioned not knowing the legality of electric bikes in NZ.

BMW and Harley have electric bikes already. I'm looking a couple of years down the track, so it's quite intetesting to watch progress.

A shop in Auckland used to sell Zero. Thats where it would have come from.

Ebikes are already here and selling very well. http://www.anebike.co.nz/

[Honest Andy]

If
To go from home to Auckland I was wondering about the logistics. I have friends in Onehunga and the trip is around 135km each way, my new car has a range of 130-150km. It seems that it would be doable if I drive a bit slow,

That max range is with a new battery? The range drops off as the battery ages. Also your range reduces with lights, heater etc.
But as you say, with a 15min charge in Te Kauwhata you'll make that easily with charge to spare :niceone:

[cods4]

Something to be aware of is that fast chargers wear out your battery much faster. You will get more life out of the car if you only use the fast chargers when you really need to.

I think an electric car is on the horizon for me in the next few years once prices drop a bit more.
I think between me and the missus we could manage with one EV and one station wagon or similar. The bikes are purely for weekend use at this stage as I need a car for work.

[Honest Andy]

Something to be aware of is that fast chargers wear out your battery much faster. You will get more life out of the car if you only use the fast chargers when you really need to.

Is that right? Interesting. How bad is it though? I thought it wasn't such an issue with modern battery construction and charging systems. If you're correct and it's still something to think about then that really fucks up the whole charging station ideal.

[nerrrd]

Interesting, good for you in being an early adopter.

Might want to look at the new dl650x too, much cheaper than an AT so you could upgrade sooner.

My cynicism expects that now is the time to get the most value out of EVs, in the fullness of time as they become more popular they'll end up being taxed heavily so the income the Govt needs for the roads can stay the same or increase as required.

Also it occurs to me that the Electricity companies might enjoy being in the same position as the oil companies are now.

[cods4]

Is that right? Interesting. How bad is it though? I thought it wasn't such an issue with modern battery construction and charging systems. If you're correct and it's still something to think about then that really fucks up the whole charging station ideal.

Yeh it definitely has an effect as it generates a lot more heat in the batteries. However a quick google suggests it doesn't have as big of an effect in a cooler climate like NZ thankfully.

[Swoop]

It is still drastically cheaper to drive an EV. Right now I'm looking at no RUC for 3 years and after that there is a decent chance that they will make the RUC cheaper than what diesel cars currently pay because they will still want to encourage EV car uptake.

Until a labour government gets in. They tax everything they can think of.

[James Deuce]

Said it before and I'll say it again: Not vaguely interested in electric bikes. Will only be interested in electric cars when I can drive one 600kms on one charge through varied terrain and be able to travel at the open road speed limit over the last 20% of charge.

Will probably buy an electric scooter to get to and from the train station within a small town and won't be vaguely sad if it gets stolen from the train station car park.

[MarkH]

I'll say this about my decision to buy an electric vehicle:
- If I compare the 2015 Leaf with 7,500kms on the clock that I've bought with something like a 2015 Toyota Corolla, there isn't much difference in the purchase price. It seems to me that a very tidy 2 year old car with low mileage would have cost fairly similar money even if I'd gone for a fossil fuel burner.
- For my particular situation, having a 70km round trip commute 5 times per week, the savings are absolutely huge. If I only ever used the Leaf to go to work and back and rode my DR650 for ALL other travel, I would still save the entire price of the car over a 10 year period compared to the bike I was riding (not even counting the price I paid for that bike, just the ongoing costs).

For me it was a no brainer. For anyone else - it would depend on their circumstances. Some people live so close to work it would make MUCH more economic sense to walk or ride a bicycle. Aucklanders gain a huge benefit by riding a motorcycle due to the crippling traffic the cars get stuck in. Some people have no garage and charging would be a difficulty.
The practicalities of using an EV for my work commute make it really appealing - charge overnight at home, unplug in the morning and drive to work, work, drive home and plug in, charge overnight, etc. I never need to stop for gas and the weekly cost for electricity would only be about ten bucks, that's a bit cheaper than paying for $40 worth of petrol each week.

Currently there are some extra bonuses that give the early adopters a nice bonus - no RUC and there are quite a few public fast charging stations that are free to use. The WEL energy stations in Hamilton and Te Kauwhata are both free. There are quite a few Vector fast chargers in Auckland that are free too.

[JimO]

so you rock up to a charging station with a empty leaf and all the plugs are being used, how long does it take to charge? how long does a battery last, whats a replacement battery worth?

[Rhys]

My commute is similar to yours at 70 km per day, you should easily do that with 24w leaf at 80% charge (it's recommend to keep the charge between 20-80% for longer battery life)

A couple of things to think about if you are on the open road with a lot of hills the heater on, heated seats and steering wheel, lights and window wipers on range is down to as low as 100 km, if it is more urban you'll get around 200 km per charge (80%)

Join up to chargenet cost $6.00 you get RFID fob for the charge stations. They work like a fuel card, plug in your car, swipe the fob and your car will start to charge. They send out a bill at the end of the month. The charge stations don't take eftpos or credit cards.

[Rhys]

so you rock up to a charging station with a empty leaf and all the plugs are being used, how long does it take to charge? how long does a battery last, whats a replacement battery worth?

To charge from 20% to 80% is 10-15 minutes at a fast charger or I plug the car in at work (std 10amp plug) it take 5 hours max, the car is normally not that low and would only take 2-3 hours. So full tank ever day I leave work, no need to drive out of my way and stop at the gas station

Most Nissan leafs from 2011 still have 12 bars some have 11, at 11 bars they have lost 20% capacity, best way of think is that the gas tank has got 20% smaller
Putting a new battery in a car is like putting a brand new motor a car, can be done but is it really worth doing?

[F5 Dave]

So what you now need is a good condition Aprilia RS250. One to balance out the equation but two to inject some excitement into you motorcycling the way an ST or DR never could. Only live once.

[MarkH]

Now I've had a week of commuting in the Leaf and I must say it is really nice.
I've been using Eco mode around town when the roads are wet so that I don't keep spinning the wheels, that insta-torque makes it too damn easy.
I have an extra heavy duty 20m extension cord in the boot, that gives me more than enough length to be able to charge at work if I want to. If the car was charged overnight at home then after 3 hours of charging at work it is pretty much full again (maybe 98%). I can easily unplug in the morning and drive to work, then back home - still have 35% remaining, running the A/C in the morning to keep the screen demisted.

I got my Chargenet fob to increase my options, but I haven't needed to use them yet. I've used a couple of WEL energy's stations (Te Kauwhata & Hamilton north) and both are free.

I'll give the ST1300 a really thorough cleaning and list in on Trademe, it's been a great bike for the work commute with 100% reliability and at 84,000kms it still has well over 200,000kms left in it. But it is nice to not need to wear my motorcycle gear every day now and the car has better protection from the cold and the rain while still giving me great reliability. This week I DIDN'T stop to put $40 on petrol in my commuter vehicle and that was nice!

In the stop-go around town driving the Leaf is outright fun! It's easy to think that the Leaf wouldn't be all that quick because 80kW isn't overly impressive (my friend's Honda Type R has 130kW), but the power delivery is considerably different and 80kW is plenty for the 0-50kph acceleration to be damned fast. I'd quite like the 2018 Leaf with the 110kW motor and 40kWh battery - that would be quite the hot hatch! Maybe in a few years time I'll trade up to a 2nd hand Japanese import 2018 Leaf.

[MarkH]

It's now been about 7 months, still enjoying commuting with the Leaf and saving heaps of money.

I managed to sell the ST1300 and then I took the DR650 and traded it for a brand new Africa Twin DCT.

I've basically spent nothing on the car since I bought it, just charging it each night is all it needs. I've only owned the new bike for 2 weeks, but I've already spent close to $2k on it - with much more planned. The bike cost me $2k more than the car did and if by the end of next year I've spent a further $8k on it then I wouldn't be surprised (maybe a little surprised that I hadn't spent more). By that time I might have bought new tyres for the car, but I'll probably have spent more on motorcycle tyres than car tyres over that time period.

I've been thinking about why I've spent practically nothing on the car but am busy pouring money into the bike. What I've come up with is this: The car is a means to an end, it gets me to work so I can earn money. The bike IS that end, that's what I spend my money on. I use the car to achieve a task, it is a means of transport. The bike is fun, it is the reason I look forward to the weekend when the weather forecast is promising. The day after buying the bike, I headed up to Auckland to catch up with a friend - it is 135km by the shortest route, but 200km by the route I took. Riding from Morrinsville to Auckland via Waingaro might not be the shortest route, but it was definitely fun! I didn't even check before I left that my friend would be home, basically it was the ride I cared about more than anything.

I think electric cars are a good idea for motorcyclists. Throughout the week I save around $30 on fuel/energy, that means that in the weekend I have more money for petrol for the bike! It makes sense to save money on the weekday commute so you have more available for weekend fun.

Anyway, here's a pic of my new baby:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/F4YZMNEVoieyfQdMRkdK-O-iuvFUbHvoNM_JfZGt6Yz_aE33MT7cRACXu82B1g4yWzJcOOSd0 oxZVMADA7JrbD4TyZbzzC1v8k-P8zuBObO7H0PvxwIvDGllLZzqkvSCvLWO1TkLuCISCE01ScP5E K4JDhVJkeVoP9jY08paYTpZhAv4DfX6fZDxCr2e6sH2zTCSumU cBpjdOwaM7smI8LF7lyQO0UZDt9C6DTM5fhf7H-t3InAjX6qRQ2zOw5hpGl5QA4jL98y68dh6YFl9xc2vrbMfE_V5 8kxxtpxZfe1f29DPxs4JNqOZKqRWrsztNN25pQfTQ3tLUVlnXj TGG3wkBZQhAi2I-CSwuuFFNHs33Tsc8kggAhg2FaaF9y6ZeXm8eKJwIpuNxSHEjrH GVRGa8fK1cF_TpFLsUesVbrsmq-xDI7aFTV_eoMkxkbl73QAyu8vO1Hwyf-I_GHc_2f55ELK98bmmJTkD97Pwvrpz9IQr3eqSnRPHWR-qFwJcGbnTwDtM3wk5ZWzaZET1mQvseEJUpyxaH5ykeeEUMnzkK _6DvrBpL8uHZNQYG2BR5JjcTbs2K3JcoHo_oclHuxxx1agT7q-rw_Jay7M=w1000-h750-no

[Coldrider]

If you want to releave your wallet of $910aussie you can fit a mccriuse control.

[MarkH]

If you want to releave your wallet of $910aussie you can fit a mccriuse control.

You know, that would not be a bad addition to the bike. Right now I'm really poor and I would like to add a rack & panniers as soon as I can spare the money, but once my finances recover then I will definitely consider buying a mccruise cruise control. That would be a LOT better than a throttle lock type device.

[rastuscat]

Poor is a relative term. If you had the dosh to buy a DCT Africa Twin, poor isn't the best word to use.

[MarkH]

Poor is a relative term. If you had the dosh to buy a DCT Africa Twin, poor isn't the best word to use.

Yes, I HAD the dosh, now I don't. Cash poor then?
I had money in the bank, then I got $7k for my ST1300 and banked that - giving me even more money. I traded the DR650 and as well as the trade-in I also had to pour all the money from my bank account into theirs. The following week I received a fortnight's pay and paid the insurance premium, leaving me still cash poor.

This week coming up I'll receive another fortnight's pay, I might buy a pair of 50/50 tyres so I can go gravel riding. I'll still have next to nothing in the bank. On Monday I'm taking the bike into work so I can head into Honda Hamilton after work and get its first (1,000km) service done. Between the service & the tyres I won't have much spare money from this pay packet.

[rastuscat]

Yes, I HAD the dosh, now I don't. Cash poor then?
I had money in the bank, then I got $7k for my ST1300 and banked that - giving me even more money. I traded the DR650 and as well as the trade-in I also had to pour all the money from my bank account into theirs. The following week I received a fortnight's pay and paid the insurance premium, leaving me still cash poor.

This week coming up I'll receive another fortnight's pay, I might buy a pair of 50/50 tyres so I can go gravel riding. I'll still have next to nothing in the bank. On Monday I'm taking the bike into work so I can head into Honda Hamilton after work and get its first (1,000km) service done. Between the service & the tyres I won't have much spare money from this pay packet.

I hear you. I have a couple of Beemers in the garage, and I feel poor when I pay for licences, services, tyres etc.

I'm looking forward to a play on a DCT when I can. Sounds cool.

Probably 2 - 3 years from now I'll have an E-Car. Intrigues me. Good on you for being an early adopter.

[MarkH]

I just went on a wee ride from home (Morrinsville) - Paeroa - Waihi - Whangamata - Kopu - Home. Waihi - Whangamata and Whangamata - Kopu were the best bits, lots of fun through the twisties!

Personally, I find riding through the twisties to be more engaging while concentrating on brakes & throttle, the road ahead and my speed - not having to worry about changing gears at all. I switched to S3 mode for the twisties, to get better power out of the corners and engine braking into the corners. The DCT was happy to forget that 6th gear existed (don't really need it below 200kph) and spent some time in 2nd, 3rd & 4th through the fun twisty corners. I felt more focused with the clutch and gears handled by the computer, while I just rode the bike. There were times I wanted to overtake and in anticipation I dabbed on the 'change down' button with my thumb 2 or 3 times, followed by a twist of the wrist - you don't want to take too long on the wrong side of the road when the straights are short and more corners are up ahead.

On this ride I didn't once reach for the non-existent clutch lever, so I guess I'm getting used to the bike. I also managed to not turn on my hazards when going to start the bike - the hazard switch is where the start button was on my previous bikes, the kill switch has the starter integrated. This kill switch is actually better, you can't try to start the bike while forgetting that the kill switch is in the wrong position because it automatically moves into the right position when you go to activate the starter.

[F5 Dave]

Geez I bet it's such a change from the barge that was the ST. Joy of motorcycling again.
Now you just need that Aprilia RS250 for the next step.

[MarkH]

Geez I bet it's such a change from the barge that was the ST. Joy of motorcycling again.
Now you just need that Aprilia RS250 for the next step.

Actually the ST1300 was quite fun in the twisties too. It never felt as heavy as it was and it had a ton of torque to pull it out of each corner. That being said, I think I enjoy riding the AT more. I definitely enjoyed today's wee blat. This morning I had swapped over the foot pegs for a pair of Black Dog pegs, giving me a MUCH improved platform for my feet. I also fitted Rox Risers which had just arrived today - got my handlebars very nicely positioned for great ergos.

I was definitely doing some 'spirited' riding. I overtook a lot of vehicles while never being overtaken myself. Maybe at some point I should consider investing in a radar detector . . . :whistle:

[rastuscat]

Weight doesnt really make a huge difference in handling at speed. My RT, and even a K1600GTL I rode once, were bkth very flickable. It's more about the confidence of the rider.

The DCT has one of those tip tronic options, doesn't it? I think I'd miss engine braking if it hasn't got that.

[MarkH]

The DCT has one of those tip tronic options, doesn't it? I think I'd miss engine braking if it hasn't got that.

Yep, you can switch to manual and use the buttons on the left side to change up/down. You can also select S1, S2 or S3 for the 3 levels of sporty mode auto, they will hold you in lower gears which provides good engine braking.

In S3, with wide open throttle, the bike will hold in 3rd until 140kph - if you then slam the throttle closed it will stay in 3rd with great engine braking. This isn't like the auto trans of a car, this is a smart computer deciding based on how you are riding, just what gear to be in. You can also choose to gear down by pressing the gear down button, even if in D, S1, S2 or S3 - you don't have to be in Manual mode to use the gear up/down buttons. If you want more engine braking then just tell the computer to drop it down a gear.

[Coldrider]

Have you gone for the parking brake lever as a clutch yet, it can have interesting results.

[MarkH]

Have you gone for the parking brake lever as a clutch yet, it can have interesting results.

I haven't done that. I don't think it would be all that common, the parking brake is quite a bit forward of where a clutch lever would be, you really have to stretch out the clutch hand to reach the parking brake. The parking brake doesn't lock-on when you pull it, I would expect someone that accidentally pulled that would feel the rear brake coming on and quickly release it.

I did however, just once mind you, in the car do exactly that. Slowing down for a stop sign I went to put my foot on the clutch, but my car doesn't have a clutch. What it does have is a foot operated parking brake in the position that a clutch pedal would normally be in. The older Leaf has a hand operated electric brake and so does the new 2018 model, it is just the 2013-2017 model that has the foot operated parking brake.