Following Distance - Free Stuff That Just Keeps Giving

[rastuscat]

Following distance really is the gift that just keeps giving.

4 metres for each 10 kmh you are travelling at. If you follow this you are complying with the law. Its less than the 2 second rule gives you, but its about twice that which most people apply.

But even better, if you keep a decent following distance, more people will see you, as you are out of the blind spot behind the vehicle ahead.

Remember, people who see you are less likely to kill you.

Better still, you get more of a view of what's up ahead.

Even more, you will be far less likely to need your awesome braking skills, when the numpty ahead of you drops his cellphone, panics and stuffs his foot on the brake.

Yup, following distance is the gift that just keeps giving.

And it's free.

You're welcome.

[nzspokes]

It will never catch on.....

[HEsch]

I played with this today on my ride. If I gave the car in front a LOT of space, the car behind me tended to give me a lot of space.
If I closed up up, the car behind me was generally RIGHT there, too.

I'm not sure cars take any notice of L plates, tbh, and you can never tell if the car driver is truly a learner or just the car owner ie mum/dad, but I stayed behind a L car driver for a while. Could have overtaken him but figured I'd be better off watching him get it wrong than being the one he ploughed into due to inexperience.

[rastuscat]

I played with this today on my ride. If I gave the car in front a LOT of space, the car behind me tended to give me a lot of space.
If I closed up up, the car behind me was generally RIGHT there, too.

I'm not sure cars take any notice of L plates, tbh, and you can never tell if the car driver is truly a learner or just the car owner ie mum/dad, but I stayed behind a L car driver for a while. Could have overtaken him but figured I'd be better off watching him get it wrong than being the one he ploughed into due to inexperience.

Well done you. Amazing what a bit of restraint can do.

[Viking01]

Rastus,
A serious question. While I'm fine with the concept of 4m per 10km/hr speed,
how do you judge say 20 metre separation at 50km/hr ? Is the typical car
about 4m in lenth, so we say 5 car lengths at that speed ?

That's why I thought the two second rule came about, so as to make it much
simpler for people to open up an adequate separation distance from the vehicle
in front.

Cheers,
Viking

[flashg]

If I remember correctly, when the speeds were in mph, 30mph = 3 car lengths. 40mph = 4 car lengths etc etc

[AllanB]

There is always a catch when someone gives you free stuff.

Just look at all the free stuff the politicians are presently offering ......

[Berries]

While I'm fine with the concept of 4m per 10km/hr speed,
how do you judge say 20 metre separation at 50km/hr ? Is the typical car
about 4m in lenth, so we say 5 car lengths at that speed ?
What is a typical car? If you know that the white line is 3m long and the gap to the next one is 7m then estimating 20m is easy.

Or just count two hippopotami.

[caspernz]

It will never catch on.....

Lead by example, you might be surprised at the results...as per below :innocent:


I played with this today on my ride. If I gave the car in front a LOT of space, the car behind me tended to give me a lot of space.
If I closed up up, the car behind me was generally RIGHT there, too.

Yes, this isn't surprising. Ride/drive in a sensible manner, and a good portion of other road users around you will behave in a similar fashion. Of course, if one always rides like a squid, then one will only be familiar with squidly responses :laugh::shutup:

The comment from Berries, about the 10 metre trick on centerlines is worth remembering. From the start of one white line, to the start of the next, should be 10 metres. No points for guessing the average commuter is merely a nose to tail accident waiting to happen :facepalm::innocent::angry:

[awayatc]

I played with this today on my ride. If I gave the car in front a LOT of space, the car behind me tended to give me a lot of space.
If I closed up up, the car behind me was generally RIGHT there, too.

I'm not sure cars take any notice of L plates, tbh, and you can never tell if the car driver is truly a learner or just the car owner ie mum/dad, but I stayed behind a L car driver for a while. Could have overtaken him but figured I'd be better off watching him get it wrong than being the one he ploughed into due to inexperience.

Did the car driver behind you see you ?
Or did he see "through" you?
I.e. are you right in front of the car driver behind you..?
Because if you are not right in front of that driver ,they tend to not see you but just the car in front of you and thus close up...

[HEsch]

Did the car driver behind you see you ?
Or did he see "through" you?
I.e. are you right in front of the car driver behind you..?
Because if you are not right in front of that driver ,they tend to not see you but just the car in front of you and thus close up...

Maybe I was just in front of several inordinately polite car drivers during my ride.

[Scuba_Steve]

Next you can teach people about how that gap trucks leave in-front of them is left there for a reason... Fuck me the amount of cunts that pull in last second :brick:

[Akzle]

Next you can teach people about how that gap trucks leave in-front of them is left there for a reason... Fuck me the amount of cunts that pull in last second :brick:

the gap in front of me is there for a reason, too.

rule 4: identify your target beyond all doubt.



had a passenger, some cunt pulled in front of me, (unneccissarily close because it was an aucklander)
and they were liek "well you did leave a gap for them", so i sais: "no, i left a gap for ME"

thanks rastarse, but your probably preaching to the choir. that, and the one that most needs good advice is immune to it.

[James Deuce]

It took me twenty years to develop the mindset that I wasn't going to follow the people home and set fire to their house with them in it after having my following distance filled up by someone objecting to me leaving following distance.

If I'm in the car, I'll extend and let another dummy in. They generally aren't travelling faster than me anyway and usually get overtaken the next time there's a hill with a passing lane. If I'm on the bike, we all know if the road gets twisty then I'm going to catch and overtake them pretty bloody quickly. The different perspective is a lot less aggravating.

[ellipsis]

...is it safer to use imperial or metric measurements...

[rastuscat]

When you are travelling at 50 kmh you are travelling at 13.8 metres per second. In 2 seconds, you cover 27.6 metres.

So if you are correctly applying the 2 second rule, you are 27.6 metres back.

The law only requires 20 metres at 50 kmh.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/55.0/DLM303092.html

332467

I don't like to talk car lengths, as guys with Chev Impalas would be back over the horizon if they were 5 car lengths back.

When I run courses (or basically any time I get a chance) I run out a 20 metre tape measure. Anyone watching laughs, and says that nobody leaves 20 metres at 50 kmh.

Anecdotally, from my time riding Troll bikes, the average around Christchurch is 8 to 11 metres.

So, basically nobody follows the law, and yet we all know what the 2 second rule is. I have stopped people travelling 4 to 5 metres back at 50 kmh, and the first thing they tell me is that they were following the 2 second rule. Bollocks. Remember, the 2 second rule would see you back at 27.6 metres.

The next thing folk say is that if you leave a big (for this I mean legal) following distance, people just fill the gap. How dare they !!

But are we really competing with each other for space? Really? When someone fills the gap ahead of me, I actually don't find it hard to adjust to regain my space. Each time I do, I'm enhancing my safety and comfort zone. It actually takes pressure off too, when you keep distance ahead of you. I think of it as my space to soak up the driving errors of other people.

Further, I can quote a number of fatalities where the rider would still be alive if they had kept a decent following distance. And it's mostly not about stopping distance. It's about being hidden in the blind spot behind vehicles.

Again, you're welcome.

[James Deuce]

I tend to measure everything in furlongs and chains.

[rastuscat]

It will never catch on.....

It will when we evolve into competent road users. So you're right, it won't catch on.

[rastuscat]

Rastus,
A serious question. While I'm fine with the concept of 4m per 10km/hr speed,
how do you judge say 20 metre separation at 50km/hr ? Is the typical car
about 4m in lenth, so we say 5 car lengths at that speed ?

That's why I thought the two second rule came about, so as to make it much
simpler for people to open up an adequate separation distance from the vehicle
in front.

Cheers,
Viking

See my above re the 2 second rule. Everyone knows it exists, bugger all people understand it or apply it.

[rastuscat]

...is it safer to use imperial or metric measurements...

When you hit something the outcome is identical, whichever way you measure it.

[Viking01]

See my above re the 2 second rule. Everyone knows it exists, bugger all people understand it or apply it.

Rastus,
Thanks for the reply, and for the chart.

The point of my earlier point was simply "what do we use as a frame of
reference" to evaluate an approximate separation distance when driving.

I'm good with the two second rule, and tend to use it most of the time.
It's easy to apply, since all you need is to choose some fixed point at the
roadside and count.


It's just that since you posted an alternative method for evaluating a
suitable following distance, wondered whether it was a "better" method
(more reliable and easier to apply) and thought it worthwhile trying to
compare the two.

Your Method
Based on the chart that you provided, a typical car (plus its inter-car
separation) is about 4 metres. But then I'd have to try and estimate the
number of car lengths in front of me to the next vehicle, whilst taking
into account my current speed. Easier ? More reliable ?

Berries Method
I was intrigued by Berries earlier post (#8) regarding the length of a
white line stripe plus the separation between stripes. Are there some
specific rules that road markers have to apply when laying out such
road markings ? Can we then rely on them as a good guide to judging
inter-vehicle distances ?


No criticism intended. The scientist in me is simply now interested. And
I'm open to new methods.

Though I'll stick with the two second rule in the interim, as my old brain
can handle that without causing overload.

Cheers,
Viking.

[HEsch]

Aren't lampposts/telephone poles typically 50m apart? Something like that anyway...

[rastuscat]

Rastus,
Thanks for the reply, and for the chart.

The point of my earlier point was simply "what do we use as a frame of
reference" to evaluate an approximate separation distance when driving.

I'm good with the two second rule, and tend to use it most of the time.
It's easy to apply, since all you need is to choose some fixed point at the
roadside and count.


It's just that since you posted an alternative method for evaluating a
suitable following distance, wondered whether it was a "better" method
(more reliable and easier to apply) and thought it worthwhile trying to
compare the two.

Your Method
Based on the chart that you provided, a typical car (plus its inter-car
separation) is about 4 metres. But then I'd have to try and estimate the
number of car lengths in front of me to the next vehicle, whilst taking
into account my current speed. Easier ? More reliable ?

Berries Method
I was intrigued by Berries earlier post (#8) regarding the length of a
white line stripe plus the separation between stripes. Are there some
specific rules that road markers have to apply when laying out such
road markings ? Can we then rely on them as a good guide to judging
inter-vehicle distances ?


No criticism intended. The scientist in me is simply now interested. And
I'm open to new methods.

Though I'll stick with the two second rule in the interim, as my old brain
can handle that without causing overload.

Cheers,
Viking.

I'm sure that road markings are spaced to a standard, but I'm not sure what that standard is. If you can find a way to use the road markings, that's great.

But I just do it the simple way, counting off the seconds. I've been doing it for so long now that I don't even have to count, I am just used to what a good gap ahead of me looks like. I feel more and more claustrophobic the closer I get.

And that's the point. The more distance you leave, the more relaxed you can be.

[Akzle]

It will when we evolve into competent road users.

vote akzle.

i will have that shit enforced. violently.

and perhaps you could explain them road signs they have now... "high crash risk enforcement area" - so... they enforce a high crash risk? or the enforcement causes a high crash risk?

[Berries]

Aren't lampposts/telephone poles typically 50m apart? Something like that anyway...
No. Markings are to a specific standard so 'should' be 10m per set. Lamp columns are based on a lighting design and then tweaked to avoid trees, driveways and vocal neighbours. Wouldn't trust two to be the same distance apart.

[Berries]

Are there some
specific rules that road markers have to apply when laying out such
road markings ? Can we then rely on them as a good guide to judging
inter-vehicle distances ?.
Just Google MOTSAM part 2. I would trust the 10m thing but take everything else with a pinch of salt. Cats eyes are generally 20m apart on rural roads as well.

[rastuscat]

Just Google MOTSAM part 2.

I can't help thinking it should have been called Flotsam.

[AllanB]

I have a theory.

Modern vehicles have anti lock brake systems. Their drivers/riders know this. Thus rely upon it too much, as in follow close - anti lock will sort that shit.

[James Deuce]

I have a theory.

Modern vehicles have anti lock brake systems. Their drivers/riders know this. Thus rely upon it too much, as in follow close - anti lock will sort that shit.
You're putting too much thought into it.

[awayatc]

When you are travelling at 50 kmh you are travelling at 13.8 metres per second. In 2 seconds, you cover 27.6 metres.

So if you are correctly applying the 2 second rule, you are 27.6 metres back.

The law only requires 20 metres at 50 kmh.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/55.0/DLM303092.html

332467

I don't like to talk car lengths, as guys with Chev Impalas would be back over the horizon if they were 5 car lengths back.

When I run courses (or basically any time I get a chance) I run out a 20 metre tape measure. Anyone watching laughs, and says that nobody leaves 20 metres at 50 kmh.

Anecdotally, from my time riding Troll bikes, the average around Christchurch is 8 to 11 metres.

So, basically nobody follows the law, and yet we all know what the 2 second rule is. I have stopped people travelling 4 to 5 metres back at 50 kmh, and the first thing they tell me is that they were following the 2 second rule. Bollocks. Remember, the 2 second rule would see you back at 27.6 metres.

The next thing folk say is that if you leave a big (for this I mean legal) following distance, people just fill the gap. How dare they !!

But are we really competing with each other for space? Really? When someone fills the gap ahead of me, I actually don't find it hard to adjust to regain my space. Each time I do, I'm enhancing my safety and comfort zone. It actually takes pressure off too, when you keep distance ahead of you. I think of it as my space to soak up the driving errors of other people.

Further, I can quote a number of fatalities where the rider would still be alive if they had kept a decent following distance. And it's mostly not about stopping distance. It's about being hidden in the blind spot behind vehicles.

Again, you're welcome.

I have to admit to completely agree with your whole post /point of view....

Apart from your statement that nobody follows that 2 second rule....
I will be goody goody 2 shoes, but that may be the only rule I always observe

So yes I will always allow for plenty of gap...probably more then 2 seconds most of the time.
And no I don't hang around. ...
don't necessarily obey speed limits
Got pretty powerful cages/bikes
And never had an accident yet in over 40 years on roads all over the world.

Because an accident means the gap has gone/become negative.....
I love my life to much to allow that to happen.


As an aside. ...Did you know that in the Netherlands the heaviest possible fine you can collect is for tailgating?

[AllanB]

I have noticed over the years that a tail tidy on your motorcycle tends to drop following cars back further behind you. Logically due to all the road shit that meaty exposed rear tyre is throwing back at them :cool:

[nzspokes]

I have a theory.

Modern vehicles have anti lock brake systems. Their drivers/riders know this. Thus rely upon it too much, as in follow close - anti lock will sort that shit.

You are working on the theory that other road users think.

I believe this theory to be incorrect.

[rastuscat]

As an aside. ...Did you know that in the Netherlands the heaviest possible fine you can collect is for tailgating?

Re enforcement. I did a search of the ticket data in about 2013 for Canterbury District.

Approx 0.01% of tickets werevisdued for following too closely.

Trouble is, most of those arose from nose to tail crashes.

Perhaps that's why there is such a prevalence of that poor driving habit.

[rastuscat]

I have a theory.

Modern vehicles have anti lock brake systems. Their drivers/riders know this. Thus rely upon it too much, as in follow close - anti lock will sort that shit.

Similar with bikes. All the focus is on whether you can stop before hitting the vehicle ahead.

When in fact it's mostly about being able to be seen, and gaining a view forward.

[AllanB]

Re enforcement. I did a search of the ticket data in about 2013 for Canterbury District.

Approx 0.01% of tickets werevisdued for following too closely.

Trouble is, most of those arose from nose to tail crashes.

Perhaps that's why there is such a prevalence of that poor driving habit.

I find Canterbury drivers quite aggressive. They do not like being passed or freely let vehicles into traffic (morning slow grid, someone trying to pull into traffic).

[rastuscat]

Some years back (4 or 5 I think) a crash happened on an 80 kmh road outside Palmerston North.

A Long Wheelbase Nissan Patrol towing a dual horse float along a long, straight 80 kmh road. The Patrol had those big wide mirror extensions, so the driver could see back past the horse float.

Coming the other way was a stream of cars.

The Nissan Patrol guy noticed in his rear view mirror a motorcycle coming up from behind. The motorcycle disappeared into the blind spot behind the horse float. Time went on.

Up ahead, long wheelbase Nissan Patrol guy saw a little yellow Toyota Starlet sitting in the middle of the road, waiting to turn right into a driveway. It couldn't, due to the stream of oncoming cars. It was waiting for a gap in that stream of cars.

Long Wheelbase Nissan Patrol guy decided to let the motorcycle rider know what was happening. So he popped his left indicator on, to tell the rider that they were moving left to go around the Starlet.

The car travelling behind the motorcycle saw the left indicator go on, and saw the motorcyclist move to his right to go past the horse float.

As the driver behind watched, the motorcyclist overtook the horse float as it moved left, and killed himself on the back of the Starlet.

Because following distance is more about being able to see what's up the road ahead of you than it is about following distance.

Now, we can enter into a debate about whether the Starlet should have been there or not, whether Patrol guy should have indicated or not.

But none of that discussion means much to the motorcyclist. Who might still be with us, if he had kept a decent distance back.

[T.W.R]

I find Canterbury drivers quite aggressive. They do not like being passed or freely let vehicles into traffic (morning slow grid, someone trying to pull into traffic).

You should see what goes on out on SH1 :facepalm: pass someone and they think it's an instant "oh ya wanna race do ya!"

Though maybe Rastus could answer this then:

What about the HP cars that tuck in close behind trucks & hug the fog line out on the highway ?? It's a regular event to see that going on particularly between Rakaia & Ashburton and along the Dunsandel & Burnham straights

[rastuscat]

You should see what goes on out on SH1 :facepalm: pass someone and they think it's an instant "oh ya wanna race do ya!"

Though maybe Rastus could answer this then:

What about the HP cars that tuck in close behind trucks & hug the fog line out on the highway ?? It's a regular event to see that going on particularly between Rakaia & Ashburton and along the Dunsandel & Burnham straights

Nothing excuses following too closely.

It's quite easy to "hide" behind a large vehicle without being too close to it. You might call it sneaky and devious.

It's also good patrol technique.

[awayatc]

Nothing excuses following too closely.

It's quite easy to "hide" behind a large vehicle without being too close to it. You might call it sneaky and devious.

It's also good patrol technique.

Taught alongside the infamous " how to do a Fuck u turn....."

flawfully executed daily at a place near you :msn-wink:

[rastuscat]

Taught alongside the infamous " how to do a Fuck u turn....."

flawfully executed daily at a place near you :msn-wink:

For sure. It needs to be done with a lot of care.

[T.W.R]

Nothing excuses following too closely.

It's quite easy to "hide" behind a large vehicle without being too close to it. You might call it sneaky and devious.

It's also good patrol technique.

The majority of the time they're well inside the safe following distance and hidden quite well so it is pretty sneaky and when other vehicles are bunching up behind it definitely isn't the safest method to catching speeders heading the other direction.
And when a passing bay is entered a vehicle a few places back goes out to pass it'd be pretty close to entrapment
One of the worst & most regularly seen doing it was a female officer the locals nicknamed the Black Widow :yes:

[rastuscat]

The majority of the time they're well inside the safe following distance and hidden quite well so it is pretty sneaky and when other vehicles are bunching up behind it definitely isn't the safest method to catching speeders heading the other direction.
And when a passing bay is entered a vehicle a few places back goes out to pass it'd be pretty close to entrapment
One of the worst & most regularly seen doing it was a female officer the locals nicknamed the Black Widow :yes:

I know her. She's a lovely woman who lives in the area and gives a toss.

Be careful when using the word entrapment. Entrapment is inducing am offence they would not have normally committed.

Most often people throw the entrapment word out to make their offence look like the cops fault.

[rastuscat]

Posting from a phone. Excuse typos.

[Gremlin]

Here's another good reason to keep your following distance to improve observation (and why lane diving will eventually catch up with you)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/CKNQG6pSYig" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[T.W.R]

I know her. She's a lovely woman who lives in the area and gives a toss.

Be careful when using the word entrapment. Entrapment is inducing am offence they would not have normally committed.

Most often people throw the entrapment word out to make their offence look like the cops fault.

If you're talking about Jock Ross's daughter she is a nice woman and I know her too, she got labelled a few things but the current one got transferred to Ashburton not that long ago & has definitely made her presence felt.

I always have a laugh when I see that sort of thing happening because of living out here in the boonies and travelling the main south on a more than regular basis I have seen the worst of what goes more often than what the cops see and it amuses me no end when people say the main south is a boring road....it's anything but boring and a piece of road that'll bite when you least expect it so have no sympathy at all for the whiners they get pinged doing stupid shit

[rastuscat]

If you're talking about Jock Ross's daughter she is a nice woman and I know her too, she got labelled a few things but the current one got transferred to Ashburton not that long ago & has definitely made her presence felt.

I always have a laugh when I see that sort of thing happening because of living out here in the boonies and travelling the main south on a more than regular basis I have seen the worst of what goes more often than what the cops see and it amuses me no end when people say the main south is a boring road....it's anything but boring and a piece of road that'll bite when you least expect it so have no sympathy at all for the whiners they get pinged doing stupid shit

DSS is one if the most common offences.

Doing Stupid Stuff.

[rastuscat]

Here's another good reason to keep your following distance to improve observation (and why lane diving will eventually catch up with you)

Excellent example of driving into a space you can't see into.

Darwin Award.

[caspernz]

What about the HP cars that tuck in close behind trucks & hug the fog line out on the highway ?? It's a regular event to see that going on particularly between Rakaia & Ashburton and along the Dunsandel & Burnham straights

It's quite a common practice, and as a trucker I have no issue with it at all. Even funnier when a marked patrol car is in the cradle, as in between two rigs, to nab those who overtake with undue enthusiasm.


Nothing excuses following too closely.

It's quite easy to "hide" behind a large vehicle without being too close to it. You might call it sneaky and devious.

It's also good patrol technique.

For a lot of road users a patrol car can be parked in plain sight, for with their forward observation extending out to 2 seconds max, they won't even spot it until well after the officer has achieved radar lock anyway...:laugh::innocent::facepalm:

[caspernz]

DSS is one if the most common offences.

Doing Stupid Stuff.

In my circle a "DSS driver" is of the Drunk, Stoned or Stupid variety. Not be confused with DWA, Driving Whilst Asian. Although in Auckland, some nights it's easy to get the two mixed up...:clap::eek::doh::laugh:

[Akzle]

those who overtake with undue enthusiasm.


a) would you have a baww if it was a civi tailgating you like the cops do?
b) what if they were looking for infringements, with *555 on speed dial (bluetooth of course)

c) "undue enthusiasm"? surely less time spent in the suicide lane the better? also courteous as it would allow more people to pass TWO FUCKEN TRUCKS.

nothing worse than an asshole who takes the whole fucken passing lane to overtake at 104, with a queue of cars behind them.


also noticed trucks speeding up in passing lanes, something previously only seen from douchelords (townies).
tut-fucken-tut.

[caspernz]

a) would you have a baww if it was a civi tailgating you like the cops do?
b) what if they were looking for infringements, with *555 on speed dial (bluetooth of course)

c) "undue enthusiasm"? surely less time spent in the suicide lane the better? also courteous as it would allow more people to pass TWO FUCKEN TRUCKS.

nothing worse than an asshole who takes the whole fucken passing lane to overtake at 104, with a queue of cars behind them.


also noticed trucks speeding up in passing lanes, something previously only seen from douchelords (townies).
tut-fucken-tut.

a) the way HP cars follow in the scenario described I'd not call tailgating, not that this worries me in the truck...the 20 tonne DG bumper takes care of those with slow reactions :innocent:

b) no bother to me

c) someone who can actually drive properly won't need to do silly speeds to overtake a truck.

Trucks speeding up in passing lanes I've not noticed as yet, bit hard for a loaded one anyhoo. If anything, with a few cars behind me, I'm in favour of the drop 10 km/h approach. Trouble is that by time some folks have noticed they're on a passing lane, put down their phone, got themselves into the right hand lane, taken another sip of their coffee...the passing lane is almost at an end and then they get angry when my blinker comes on to alert them to the merge :facepalm::blink::confused:

[Akzle]

a) the way HP cars follow in the scenario described I'd not call tailgating, not that this worries me in the truck...the 20 tonne DG bumper takes care of those with slow reactions :innocent:

b) no bother to me

c) someone who can actually drive properly won't need to do silly speeds to overtake a truck.

Trucks speeding up in passing lanes I've not noticed as yet, bit hard for a loaded one anyhoo. If anything, with a few cars behind me, I'm in favour of the drop 10 km/h approach. Trouble is that by time some folks have noticed they're on a passing lane, put down their phone, got themselves into the right hand lane, taken another sip of their coffee...the passing lane is almost at an end and then they get angry when my blinker comes on to alert them to the merge :facepalm::blink::confused:

the cops i've seen doing this sneak atack shit certainly aren't following the 2second rule, probably less than a car length, deffo less than 2, behind the vehicle in front.

at least you sound like one of the good uns.

i also think no-one should be obliged or even encouraged to indicate right from the lh lane. that's the default lane. ("keep left", remember??)
if you're that fucken unaware of shit you deserve to be vehicularly homicided.


also i'll call you on your application of "silly" wrt "speeds"
my 20 year old phat sweet magna will do 150 all day long, without being silly.
and rolling on 5th at a passing lane will have me easily exceeding the posted. also no silliness involved.

[caspernz]

the cops i've seen doing this sneak atack shit certainly aren't following the 2second rule, probably less than a car length, deffo less than 2, behind the vehicle in front.

at least you sound like one of the good uns.

i also think no-one should be obliged or even encouraged to indicate right from the lh lane. that's the default lane. ("keep left", remember??)
if you're that fucken unaware of shit you deserve to be vehicularly homicided.


also i'll call you on your application of "silly" wrt "speeds"
my 20 year old phat sweet magna will do 150 all day long, without being silly.
and rolling on 5th at a passing lane will have me easily exceeding the posted. also no silliness involved.

Yeah well, the indicate right at the end of a passing lane is one of those funny things aye? Not legally required yet it helps following drivers. Let's face it, some drivers can barely keep a car between the lines as it is...

As for silly speeds when overtaking, yes I concur with your point, so read my take on silly speeds as those being well over the legal limit.

[T.W.R]

It's quite a common practice, and as a trucker I have no issue with it at all. Even funnier when a marked patrol car is in the cradle, as in between two rigs, to nab those who overtake with undue enthusiasm.

For a lot of road users a patrol car can be parked in plain sight, for with their forward observation extending out to 2 seconds max, they won't even spot it until well after the officer has achieved radar lock anyway...:laugh::innocent::facepalm:

I don't have too much issue with it myself either apart from the fact they're always well inside the safe following distance, which at the end of the day isn't what law enforcement are really supposed to do....you know "promote safe driving practices" and down here they usually tuck in behind the likes of the Synlait tankers who are governed to 95km/h and you hardly ever see them do the same behind some of the long-haul rigs.
Funny to watch when there are vehicles starting to bunch up behind and no-one's brave enough to pass.

And I bet you get on the CB and let some of your mates know you've got a cling-on :msn-wink:

Forward observational skills are piss poor with the majority down this way, their attention is usually elsewhere...mostly gawking at the vista of the alps, yapping at who ever's beside them in the vehicle, or woffling on their phones and TBH the most often seen doing that is you truckies :yes:

My biggest pet hate is the fucking halfwits who sit in the middle of the road to turn right, though it's the best trap to catch unaware tailgaters in groups of vehicles who come upon these numpties and I've seen some spectacular panic avoidance take place and a couple of good multi vehicle collisions happen through this sort of thing.
There's a reason for the statement "pull left and once the road is clear proceed to turn right"

[caspernz]

I don't have too much issue with it myself either apart from the fact they're always well inside the safe following distance, which at the end of the day isn't what law enforcement are really supposed to do....you know "promote safe driving practices" and down here they usually tuck in behind the likes of the Synlait tankers who are governed to 95km/h and you hardly ever see them do the same behind some of the long-haul rigs.
Funny to watch when there are vehicles starting to bunch up behind and no-one's brave enough to pass.

And I bet you get on the CB and let some of your mates know you've got a cling-on :msn-wink:

Forward observational skills are piss poor with the majority down this way, their attention is usually elsewhere...mostly gawking at the vista of the alps, yapping at who ever's beside them in the vehicle, or woffling on their phones and TBH the most often seen doing that is you truckies :yes:

My biggest pet hate is the fucking halfwits who sit in the middle of the road to turn right, though it's the best trap to catch unaware tailgaters in groups of vehicles who come upon these numpties and I've seen some spectacular panic avoidance take place and a couple of good multi vehicle collisions happen through this sort of thing.
There's a reason for the statement "pull left and once the road is clear proceed to turn right"

There's good cops and the odd one who gives the rest a bad name. Like any other group.

We're limited to 90 km/h so being aware of building a tail, and managing that by dropping speed a little on passing lanes, is all part of our driver coaching. Not perfect of course, but the intent is correct. Hardly ever use the CB as it is, sure as heck don't partake in the warning other truckers of HP presence.

Drivers using cellphones is a pet peeve of mine, truckers tend to be a very visible group doing it aye? Just speaking for my outfit, we're not allowed to, by law for starters, non negotiable company policy. Plenty of excuses will be offered by the offenders, none that stack up when one of our lads gets sprung on the Drivecam using the cell. I'd fully support harsher penalties for cellphone use, but then Police have limited resources. Enforcing of the basics has gone by the wayside to a large degree, unfortunately.

Tailgating can catch one out in various scenarios. Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw many moons ago, it read something like: "Tailgating is like masturbation, done by many, admitted by few"

Correct, or at least safe, following distances is driver education 101. Keeping sensible following distance does work, there's a proven system that incorporates it. Just requires an attitude adjustment. Thus it'll never catch on...:confused::eek::rolleyes::devil2:

[Jeeper]

I have a theory.

Modern vehicles have anti lock brake systems. Their drivers/riders know this. Thus rely upon it too much, as in follow close - anti lock will sort that shit.Antilocking brakes do not improve stopping distance, they allow controlled manouvering while braking. That's the primary purpose for them, better control by not skidding be it in straight line or turns.

[jellywrestler]

Remember, people who see you are less likely to kill you.



what a bout the term 'don't shoot until you see the whites in their eyes' ?

[T.W.R]

There's good cops and the odd one who gives the rest a bad name. Like any other group.

We're limited to 90 km/h so being aware of building a tail, and managing that by dropping speed a little on passing lanes, is all part of our driver coaching. Not perfect of course, but the intent is correct. Hardly ever use the CB as it is, sure as heck don't partake in the warning other truckers of HP presence.

Drivers using cellphones is a pet peeve of mine, truckers tend to be a very visible group doing it aye? Just speaking for my outfit, we're not allowed to, by law for starters, non negotiable company policy. Plenty of excuses will be offered by the offenders, none that stack up when one of our lads gets sprung on the Drivecam using the cell. I'd fully support harsher penalties for cellphone use, but then Police have limited resources. Enforcing of the basics has gone by the wayside to a large degree, unfortunately.

Tailgating can catch one out in various scenarios. Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw many moons ago, it read something like: "Tailgating is like masturbation, done by many, admitted by few"

Correct, or at least safe, following distances is driver education 101. Keeping sensible following distance does work, there's a proven system that incorporates it. Just requires an attitude adjustment. Thus it'll never catch on...:confused::eek::rolleyes::devil2:

There's bad apples in every box unfortunately and yeah attitude adjustment is an elusive beast....as old as it is I always think back to the old disney cartoon about car drivers that featured goofy, it explored all the personalities the appear in people once they get behind the wheel.
Though on the bike I admit openly to getting away from bunches of vehicles on the open road as quickly as I can just to find that open space for safety and avoiding people venting their frustrations


There are cars on the market now that are able to sense if you are following too close and automatically brake. It will be many years before every car has that feature,

Been around for a long time.....I've a 10yr old car with active cruise control that adjusts speed automatically for both gaining on vehicles in front and for vehicles who gain on it from behind....never use the cruise control though.

[T.W.R]

I would love it to be an offence but you would need a dash cam to prove it for all traffic that wishes to turn in any direction that they must indicate before braking and not after. This would have to be the biggest thing that pisses me off with ChCh traffic. I wonder how many of such turning drivers have been rear ended by braking and not indicating first.

The turn into the township where I live there's been at least 3 cars hit from behind and spun around like spinning tops because they sat in the middle of the road, an intersection closer towards ChCh there's been numerous multiple vehicle accidents due to the same thing and the place I see it happen most often is vehicles turning into the Caravan park by the Swamp at Islington.

[Taxythingy]

vehicles turning into the Caravan park by the Swamp at Islington.

They're doing it wrong. Go to the Swamp first, get shitfaced, then turn left and next left and you're home. Safe as caravans.

[Jeeper]

Has anyone read the road code recently to refresh themselves on what it says for traffic turning right on open roads with no centre median space? Stopping in the middle of the road is asking for trouble.


https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/roadcode-questions/car/road-position/you-wish-to-make-a-right-turn-on-a-narro/#

[T.W.R]

They're doing it wrong. Go to the Swamp first, get shitfaced, then turn left and next left and you're home. Safe as caravans.

:lol: There's plenty who do that already :yes: Know a few good stories that emanated from the Swamp over the years had a 2nd cousin who pulled pints there for nearly 20yrs and another family friend who spent about 10yrs doin the same there from the mid 90s to early 00s.

All the roading development through there's going to tame things down a bit but the next thing will be the chaos that ensues from the spaghetti junction that's forming up further out

[Moi]

Has anyone read the road code recently to refresh themselves on what it says for traffic turning right on open roads with no centre median space? Stopping in the middle of the road is asking for trouble.


https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/roadcode-questions/car/road-position/you-wish-to-make-a-right-turn-on-a-narro/#

The road code suggest both turning from the centre of the roadway and turning from the left-hand roadside:

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/turning/


I agree with the comment from the drivingtest site, turn from the left. However, their reason is a response to the appalling driving standards of many - you might get rear-ended... so the following driver wasn't looking to see what's going on up ahead!

[rastuscat]

Interesting to see the tangent this has gone off on. Still, it's opened a good discussion.

[Scuba_Steve]

Interesting to see the tangent this has gone off on. Still, it's opened a good discussion.

Next you can start a thread on keeping left unless overtaking... That's the one that probably annoys me the most when in a cage

[Akzle]

I wonder how many of such turning drivers have been rear ended by braking and not indicating first.
you are a fuckwit. just in case anyone needed reminding.

drivers hitting shit in front of them should, at very least, be indicted of failing to stop short. followed closely by "being a fucking idiot" and "attempted murder by being a fucking idiot"
followed by a swift kick square in the nuts, or a cunt punt, as applicable.

vote akzle.


Has anyone read the road code recently to refresh themselves on what it says for traffic turning right on open roads with no centre median space? Stopping in the middle of the road is asking for trouble.


https://www.drivingtests.co.nz/roadcode-questions/car/road-position/you-wish-to-make-a-right-turn-on-a-narro/#

a pet peeve of mine. i even started a thread to similar effect. if some gaycunt mod hasn't PD'd it.

[Jeeper]

Anybody driving in the fast/right lane for anything other than overtaking should be ticketed.

[Akzle]

Anybody driving in the fast/right lane for anything other than overtaking should be ticketed.

yeha. that's legislated as "failing to keep left"

not nearly so crucial for enforcement as "exceeded the posted speed limit by less than 9km/h as detected by approved detection horseshit"


safety, you understand.


vote akzle. the former wil be punishinble by public flogging, the latter wil be a non issue.

[Jeeper]

You should run for the Parliament, some of your thinking is more sensible than most of the thinking by current politicians.

[caspernz]

Interesting to see the tangent this has gone off on. Still, it's opened a good discussion.

Yep, you've got a good following Pete :niceone:


Next you can start a thread on keeping left unless overtaking... That's the one that probably annoys me the most when in a cage

I'll even vote for a ban on trucks in the right hand lane on 3 lane sections. Provided the keep left rule is enforced properly. Even though I'm a trucker I'm mighty annoyed when I see elephant racing going on :ar15::argh::brick:

[awayatc]

Driving in Europe recently I was pleasantly surprised to see all the trucks in the slow lane....

Can only assume it must have been legislated.
Can't imagine all European truckies being socially responsible.

[Akzle]

You should run for the Parliament, some of your thinking is more sensible than most of the thinking by current politicians.

fuck running, sounds too much like exercise. i'm not even going to jog.

also i'll abolish parliament. you'll be voting for an benevolent dicktatorship.

[rastuscat]

On the courses I run I tell people to use the left lane unless there's a reason to use the right lane. Seems like a fair plan.

It just cheeses me off when people drift along in the outside lane for no reason.

The new traffic lights in Rangiora actually encourage people to use the right hand lane of two. Poor engineering.

I did a thread a while back about how the left lane has become the fast lane, because so many people default to the outside lane.

Nothing's changed.

[Berries]

Has anyone read the road code recently to refresh themselves on what it says for traffic turning right on open roads with no centre median space? Stopping in the middle of the road is asking for trouble.
If you look at section 2.5(2) of the Road User Rule you will see that they went away from suggesting this as best practice some years ago but in subclause (3) said you could do it "in the interests of safety". Seeing someone stationary on the left indicating right when I am coming up to them gives me the shits. Somewhere up near Ashburton I saw someone doing this in the opposite direction. Watched a second car indicating right stop next to the centreline next to the first car then when I passed them watched a third car that had nowhere to go slam up the arse of the first car.

For me if I am driving a car and know I am going to be turning right up ahead and have someone behind me I pull left well before the intersection to let them get passed me removing that particular hazard.

[rastuscat]

If you look at section 2.5(2) of the Road User Rule you will see that they went away from suggesting this as best practice some years ago but in subclause (3) said you could do it "in the interests of safety". Seeing someone stationary on the left indicating right when I am coming up to them gives me the shits. Somewhere up near Ashburton I saw someone doing this in the opposite direction. Watched a second car indicating right stop next to the centreline next to the first car then when I passed them watched a third car that had nowhere to go slam up the arse of the first car.

For me if I am driving a car and know I am going to be turning right up ahead and have someone behind me I pull left well before the intersection to let them get passed me removing that particular hazard.

I came across a well nasty crash at the McLaren Falls turnoff about 25 years ago.

Car had pulled left to let traffic clear from behind prior to turning right. When the driver was clear had turned out and got hit side on by a motorcycle coming through from behind.

Any right turn is a risk.

[russd7]

I came across a well nasty crash at the McLaren Falls turnoff about 25 years ago.

Car had pulled left to let traffic clear from behind prior to turning right. When the driver was clear had turned out and got hit side on by a motorcycle coming through from behind.

Any right turn is a risk.

that scenario was one of my first big scares on a bike, only difference being that i skimmed past the front of the right turning car and stopped in the ditch on the other side of the road, just as well i was on a trailee

[rastuscat]

I came across a well nasty crash at the McLaren Falls turnoff about 25 years ago.

Car had pulled left to let traffic clear from behind prior to turning right. When the driver was clear had turned out and got hit side on by a motorcycle coming through from behind.

Any right turn is a risk.

Victim was an Irish tourist. I was cradling his head and reassuring him as fire cut him out of the side of the car.

[pritch]

But even better, if you keep a decent following distance, more people will see you, as you are out of the blind spot behind the vehicle ahead.



Spoken like a traffic cop. On your work bike that would work. In the real world, on your own bike, that will just have people passing you and jamming themselves into the space ahead of you causing you to have to take evasive action.

A better system is to be going fast enough that nobody overtakes you. :whistle:

[rastuscat]

Spoken like a traffic cop. On your work bike that would work. In the real world, on your own bike, that will just have people passing you and jamming themselves into the space ahead of you causing you to have to take evasive action.

A better system is to be going fast enough that nobody overtakes you. :whistle:

I'm a fairly mild mannered person. But I find your comment to be totally wrong.

In the real world, where I ride my own bike, following distance is easy and makes my rides safer and more stress-free.

[rastuscat]

The perception is that if you leave a decent following distance some tosser will just fill your gap up.

I challenge people to count the number of times that avtually happens. Then decide if its worth sacrificing safety and comfort to stop those few tossers gettingvshead of you.

Exactly what do you gain by making sure nobody gets into "your" gap? How much time do you actually lose when someone takes "your" gap?

It's a pissing contest, competing with people you don't know in a race they dont know is happening.

[pritch]

The perception is that if you leave a decent following distance some tosser will just fill your gap up.

I challenge people to count the number of times that avtually happens. Then decide if its worth sacrificing safety and comfort to stop those few tossers gettingvshead of you.

Exactly what do you gain by making sure nobody gets into "your" gap? How much time do you actually lose when someone takes "your" gap?

It's a pissing contest, competing with people you don't know in a race they dont know is happening.

You're missing the point. Again.

If you are on a motorcycle there is no excuse for just following. You have superior manouverability, visibility and acceleration.
Start using them.

You need to start thinking like a motorcyclist. That's somewhat different to what you are accustomed to.

[rastuscat]

You need to start thinking like a motorcyclist. That's somewhat different to what you are accustomed to.

Indeed. I thought I was a motorcyclist but because I'm not a self centred twat, clearly I was wrong.

[pritch]

Indeed. I thought I was a motorcyclist but because I'm not a self centred twat, clearly I was wrong.

I don't know whether you are a self centred twat or not, but sometimes your comments indicate you don't really understand motorcycling. As you were.

[awayatc]

I'm with Mr rastuscat on this topic.

Gaps are good....

Don't mind somebody using the space it creates...
Improves overall traffic flow.

[rastuscat]

I'm with Mr rastuscat on this topic.

Gaps are good....

Don't mind somebody using the space it creates...
Improves overall traffic flow.


https://youtu.be/gLVSnKuFmGU

[release_the_bees]

Re enforcement. I did a search of the ticket data in about 2013 for Canterbury District.

Approx 0.01% of tickets werevisdued for following too closely.

Trouble is, most of those arose from nose to tail crashes.

Perhaps that's why there is such a prevalence of that poor driving habit.I've never understood why this isn't enforced more. Surely, it's not that hard to fit a camera and measuring device to the back of an unmarked car and drive around for a bit. It really does my head in considering that 90% of the driving population drive way too close to the vehicle in front and nothing seems to be done to improve that habit.

In my opinion, tailgating is much more likely to cause an accident than some 'nutter' doing 10 km/h over the speed limit but otherwise driving safety, yet the former is barely enforced, whilst the latter is enforced religiously.





Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[HEsch]

WRT to following distance, I'm probably as bad as the next person (following too close), so pot/kettle blah blah.

Wrt to losing time... have you ever tried to catch up to someone who sets off only one minute before you? It is quite difficult to make up the gap, without driving recklessly. Losing 10 seconds here and 10 seconds there, because someone takes your gap - probably would have elapsed at the next intersection anyway.

IMO it's not worth the stress. I'd rather enjoy the ride/drive. I had someone aggressively brake in front of me the other day. I am sure he gestured at me as he did it, to tell me to back off. I was watching and following in a way that meant I was still well behind him after he braked (like an idiot), I realised what he was doing and slowed to maintain my distance... He was far more aggravated than I. If he'd merely slowed down a tiny bit I would have been able to pass him on one of the straight bits, but he was travelling a good 95 and I didn't deem it safe in the limited space. So because I was cruising along, I caught up to him on every single corner.

[caspernz]

The perception is that if you leave a decent following distance some tosser will just fill your gap up.

I challenge people to count the number of times that avtually happens. Then decide if its worth sacrificing safety and comfort to stop those few tossers gettingvshead of you.

Exactly what do you gain by making sure nobody gets into "your" gap? How much time do you actually lose when someone takes "your" gap?

It's a pissing contest, competing with people you don't know in a race they dont know is happening.

It's an ongoing debate. At my place of work I had a most amusing trip taking a chap for a ride. Now he's known as a pushy speedy kind of trucker. So as soon as we hit the motorway and I was demonstrating the correct driving techniques, without saying a word mind you, he mumbled something along the lines of: "Damn, this is gonna take all night." Asked him what his normal trip time was from depot to depot. Funnily enough, even with my relaxed way of driving, trip time was the same. Lower stress, lower fuel burn, more professional in how it looked to Joe Public and all...so yeah, not fussing over a stranger taking a bit of "my road" is no bother to me. Side effect is that majority of traffic mirrors my behavior, so if I chill out, that's mostly what I get in response. Works on 2, 4, or more wheels :woohoo:


I'm with Mr rastuscat on this topic.

Gaps are good....

Don't mind somebody using the space it creates...
Improves overall traffic flow.

Leaving a gap gives you an option, and yes it improves the flow.


I've never understood why this isn't enforced more. Surely, it's not that hard to fit a camera and measuring device to the back of an unmarked car and drive around for a bit. It really does my head in considering that 90% of the driving population drive way too close to the vehicle in front and nothing seems to be done to improve that habit.

In my opinion, tailgating is much more likely to cause an accident than some 'nutter' doing 10 km/h over the speed limit but otherwise driving safety, yet the former is barely enforced, whilst the latter is enforced religiously.

Tailgating may be permitted, as in not enforced, because it's perceived to get more traffic thru a certain bottleneck? But yep, I hate tailgating. On the bike it's not usually a problem, unless I can't get away from some dipstick...then I just grow my own following distance to incorporate the gap the tailgater behind me should have. Would love to see tailgating be targeted with the same enthusiasm as speed, that's for sure :shutup::innocent:


WRT to following distance, I'm probably as bad as the next person (following too close), so pot/kettle blah blah.

Wrt to losing time... have you ever tried to catch up to someone who sets off only one minute before you? It is quite difficult to make up the gap, without driving recklessly. Losing 10 seconds here and 10 seconds there, because someone takes your gap - probably would have elapsed at the next intersection anyway.

IMO it's not worth the stress. I'd rather enjoy the ride/drive. I had someone aggressively brake in front of me the other day. I am sure he gestured at me as he did it, to tell me to back off. I was watching and following in a way that meant I was still well behind him after he braked (like an idiot), I realised what he was doing and slowed to maintain my distance... He was far more aggravated than I. If he'd merely slowed down a tiny bit I would have been able to pass him on one of the straight bits, but he was travelling a good 95 and I didn't deem it safe in the limited space. So because I was cruising along, I caught up to him on every single corner.

As far as the perception of losing time, by allowing someone into the gap in front of you, it's largely perception. In urban situations it's a moot point, one traffic light and you're bunched up two vehicles behind the one who "stole" your spot. Even on the open road, so what if an impatient driver hustles thru at the end of a passing lane, next township this same vehicle will still be in the same slot in the row of traffic anyway. On the bike I favour to scoot past someone coming out of a right hand bend, a tried and proven technique from the Roadcraft manual :wings:

[rastuscat]

I've never understood why this isn't enforced more. Surely, it's not that hard to fit a camera and measuring device to the back of an unmarked car and drive around for a bit. It really does my head in considering that 90% of the driving population drive way too close to the vehicle in front and nothing seems to be done to improve that habit.


I had a bit of fun with one of my oppos in a plain car on the Shore a few years ago. Around 2001, I think.

The lasers we had at the time were ProLaser II. They measured distance, speed and time.

My oppo drove the plain car, and I sat in the back seat, pointing the laser out the rear window, measuring the distance in metres to the car behind.

It was a great way to draw a punters attention to the road rules.

Some plonker wrote to the Police Minister and complained about entrapment (which it wasn't), and the amount of paper we had to write to explain the situation basically caused us to give it up as an idea.

Worked a treat though.

[Moi]

There must be something to this following distance thing... even an Aussie thinks it's a good idea...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rxij09q7qAA

[T.W.R]

I had a bit of fun with one of my oppos in a plain car on the Shore a few years ago. Around 2001, I think.

The lasers we had at the time were ProLaser II. They measured distance, speed and time.

My oppo drove the plain car, and I sat in the back seat, pointing the laser out the rear window, measuring the distance in metres to the car behind.

It was a great way to draw a punters attention to the road rules.

Some plonker wrote to the Police Minister and complained about entrapment (which it wasn't), and the amount of paper we had to write to explain the situation basically caused us to give it up as an idea.

Worked a treat though.

Sounds like when speed cameras were first getting used and the boys in blue set one up in a wrecked car on the back of truck on Marshlands road :laugh:
A lot of crap went down over that because dweebs were calling unfair & underhanded.
Bit like when the old man & his partner caught & ticketed Tino Tabak speeding on his pushbike, that got dragged out because claims of unfair prosecution.

Apart from the obvious penalties etc for hitting someone from behind if an accident occurs from following too closely it'd be a pretty hard thing to police.
Though with current technology it wont be long till someone modifies a system that can use backing cameras & parking assistance systems in cars to either record close calls or act like a proximity alert similar to the blindspot/ cross-traffic system some modern vehicles use

[granstar]

that scenario was one of my first big scares on a bike, only difference being that i skimmed past the front of the right turning car and stopped in the ditch on the other side of the road, just as well i was on a trailee

Yeah well I once followed you some distance down the South Island and I can see how a near miss like that could've happened, with following too close it got big scary and near came close to a rear ender, but I hung on to that rear grab rail for life as tight as I could.:blip: