Purchased a bike off not the registered owner - Help!!

[wishynz]

New to the forum and looking for some advice

I've recently purchased a 2001 Honda Hornet off TradeMe. Registration had lapsed a few years back and it needed some work, no big deal.

Got it back up to Auckland and spent some money to get it all working and get it WOF ready and ready to re-register in my name. When I've gone to re-register this it turns out the bike is not in the name of the guy that sold it to me.

Now I know I'm an idiot for spending the money/time to get it all working before checking the reg info but I honestly did not even consider the fact it may not be registered to the guy..

Been a bit of a mess around to try get this sorted as the guy I bought it off can't find proof of anything when he purchased it a few years back (It has been sitting unused in this shed for years). I've been to a JP and signed a confirmation that I bought it legally and contacted the guy I bought it off to obtain proof he brought it legally but the compliance officer said this isn't enough and they need proof that the guy I purchased it off was legally allowed to sell it. He is often ignoring my messages and said that he is searching for things but hasn't been in touch with the person he bought it off in years.

I'm not sure what to do here or what my options are. It's my first bike I just want to get it signed off and home so I can ride it :(

Anyone able to shed some light on what steps I can take in this situation or what my options are?

[James Deuce]

Sounds suspiciously like a life lesson. Turn it into a track bike and go racing.

[wishynz]

Sounds suspiciously like a life lesson. Turn it into a track bike and go racing.


A rather expensive one unfortunately.. I'm not really into racing

[HEsch]

Not sure on the legalities but as far as I am aware the buyer and the seller have a form to fill in for change of ownership. If the buyer does theirs, a posted letter goes to the registered name/address on file (you won't get a copy of this info) - so the person who's name it's in would be notified.

Pretty sure you have to register before WOF, and as such, change of ownership should always be done at the time of purchase. That way you don't remain liable for a vehicle you have sold, and as a buyer, you are not liable for back payment of any registration fees (ie if it was not held or cancelled).

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/buying-and-selling-a-vehicle/buying-a-vehicle/

[HEsch]

Your options would include Disputes Tribunal (http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/tt/bs/Pages/Buyingprivately.aspx). Not sure if this would fall under the police's jurisdiction as a civil matter, but it might be worth contacting your local CAB for their take on it.

[wishynz]

Not sure on the legalities but as far as I am aware the buyer and the seller have a form to fill in for change of ownership. If the buyer does theirs, a posted letter goes to the registered name/address on file (you won't get a copy of this info) - so the person who's name it's in would be notified.

Pretty sure you have to register before WOF, and as such, change of ownership should always be done at the time of purchase. That way you don't remain liable for a vehicle you have sold, and as a buyer, you are not liable for back payment of any registration fees (ie if it was not held or cancelled).

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/buying-and-selling-a-vehicle/buying-a-vehicle/

I've looked in to this, but when I enter the plate it comes up that the registration has been cancelled..

[wishynz]

Your options would include Disputes Tribunal (http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/tt/bs/Pages/Buyingprivately.aspx). Not sure if this would fall under the police's jurisdiction as a civil matter, but it might be worth contacting your local CAB for their take on it.


Thanks, I'll look in to disputes tribunal as a last resort so hoping it wont have to come to that

[Grumph]

The one time this happened to me, it was sorted in the end by doing a visit to the offending person taking a large mate with me who was wearing his kicking boots....
I realise from your post that it won't be this easy for you, but sadly there are some who simply have to have this approach taken to get results.

Have you approached trademe ?

[pritch]

I know nothing but for what I read here, but if the registration has been cancelled how can there be a registered owner?

Also I see here mention that the bike needs to be registered to get a WoF. I thought it had to have a WoF to be registered.

[biggo]

You only need to prove previous registration that will probible be done by running the vin or previous rego in the system

For ownership a Stat Dec is all you need see Virm extract below

1.2 Entitlement to register

The following documents may be used as proof of a clear ownership trail for a vehicle undergoing the re-registration process:

a signed receipt from the last registered owner
an original buyer tax invoice from some auction organisations as detailed in Reference material 69)
a signed statutory declaration. Note that there is no set format, but a statutory declaration must include the following statements:
1. ‘Solemnly and sincerely declare/affirm that’, and

2. ‘I make this solemn declaration conscientiously declaring the same to be true and by virtue of the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957’.

In all cases the person presenting the vehicle for re-registration must be the person listed on the supplied documentation and the following information must also be listed:

the vehicle’s make, model, VIN/chassis number
date of purchase
Name and address of seller (in the case of a Turners Auctions invoice, the Turners Auctions letterhead is acceptable).

https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/i-and-c/required-documentation-and-registration/re-registering-a-vehicle

It may be the person you are dealing with is new to compliance and needs some assistance :)

Or I would be happy to give you $50 to take it off your hands :)

Another point to be aware of is if the bike has been written off by insurance co it WILL have to have a repair cert this can add considerable cost

[wishynz]

I know nothing but for what I read here, but if the registration has been cancelled how can there be a registered owner?

Also I see here mention that the bike needs to be registered to get a WoF. I thought it had to have a WoF to be registered.

I was under this impression as well, as the bike would need to be road legal to be registered

[wishynz]

You only need to prove previous registration that will probible be done by running the vin or previous rego in the system

For ownership a Stat Dec is all you need see Virm extract below

1.2 Entitlement to register

The following documents may be used as proof of a clear ownership trail for a vehicle undergoing the re-registration process:

a signed receipt from the last registered owner
an original buyer tax invoice from some auction organisations as detailed in Reference material 69)
a signed statutory declaration. Note that there is no set format, but a statutory declaration must include the following statements:
1. ‘Solemnly and sincerely declare/affirm that’, and

2. ‘I make this solemn declaration conscientiously declaring the same to be true and by virtue of the Oaths and Declarations Act 1957’.

In all cases the person presenting the vehicle for re-registration must be the person listed on the supplied documentation and the following information must also be listed:

the vehicle’s make, model, VIN/chassis number
date of purchase
Name and address of seller (in the case of a Turners Auctions invoice, the Turners Auctions letterhead is acceptable).

https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/i-and-c/required-documentation-and-registration/re-registering-a-vehicle

It may be the person you are dealing with is new to compliance and needs some assistance :)

Or I would be happy to give you $50 to take it off your hands :)

Another point to be aware of is if the bike has been written off by insurance co it WILL have to have a repair cert this can add considerable cost

Haha, I'll keep the offer in mind..

Funny thing is I was originally told that the declaration would be all I needed as well. So I obtained this and dropped it off to the compliance place and then got a call the next day saying that they need proof from the original owner as well. I'm pretty confused on the matter.. I'll send this through to the guy and see what he says. Thank you!

[wishynz]

The one time this happened to me, it was sorted in the end by doing a visit to the offending person taking a large mate with me who was wearing his kicking boots....
I realise from your post that it won't be this easy for you, but sadly there are some who simply have to have this approach taken to get results.

Have you approached trademe ?

This would be far more tempting if the guy wasn't ~6 hours away :(

[FJRider]

I've been to a JP and signed a confirmation that I bought it legally and contacted the guy I bought it off to obtain proof he brought it legally but the compliance officer said this isn't enough and they need proof that the guy I purchased it off was legally allowed to sell it. He is often ignoring my messages and said that he is searching for things but hasn't been in touch with the person he bought it off in years.



Find the person listed as the last named registered owner. (Or at least someone with [or signing] that same name :shifty:)

Check the Police have "No interest in the vehicle" ... this used to be a requirement of re-registration in this process ... although now not required legally. But it may help your case with the compliance officer.

[FJRider]

This would be far more tempting if the guy wasn't ~6 hours away :(

KB members are everywhere. Some probably are about six hours away ... :shifty:

[Akzle]

trademe terms include ~"must be legally entitled to sell"

also. that sale and purchase agreement you both signed.

also. dont register shit. ftp.

[AllanB]

File a dispute against the person you purchased it from in the small claims court. Once they receive notification they will most likely amazingly find proof of purchase or the elusive phone number of the original owner.

[FJRider]

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/105993-How-to-get-a-deregistered-bike-on-the-road?highlight=certified

[Intruder VS]

Did a compliance on a bike about a year ago at VTNZ and when I asked about ownership history they said don't worry as they used to do the JP deceleration thing but don't bother any more.
I printed out the carjam report showing the bikes details and that it wasn't stolen and they were happy with that, flew through compliance with new plate in my name etc all in about half a day.

[cods4]

Had a similar issue with a car once. I don't remember the details but I think the very helpful person at VINZ was able to look up the details of the previous owner for me and I went and visited them. They were good enough to write a note on a piece of paper saying 'I... Sold this vehicle to ... for $... etc.

I think you can also request the PO's details from VTNZ if you have a good reason. Such as in this case.

[T.W.R]

Find the person listed as the last named registered owner. (Or at least someone with [or signing] that same name :shifty:)

Check the Police have "No interest in the vehicle" ... this used to be a requirement of re-registration in this process ... although now not required legally. But it may help your case with the compliance officer.

A " Form of Statutory Declaration " from the police signed by a declarations officer :msn-wink:
If something has changed in the last 6mths you still need one of these
Pick one up at VTNZ and take it to a police station; can't go any further without one. Basically just states that the police have no interest in it but it does need all the details of the person the bike was purchased from.

[cods4]

A " Form of Statutory Declaration " from the police signed by a declarations officer :msn-wink:
If something has changed in the last 6mths you still need one of these
Pick one up at VTNZ and take it to a police station; can't go any further without one. Basically just states that the police have no interest in it but it does need all the details of the person the bike was purchased from.

I needed one of those for the car I re-registered a few years ago but not for the bike I re-registered last year. Maybe it has changed recently? or they just dont enforce it.

[wishynz]

Huge thanks to everybody that has provided info here! You guys are great. I've contacted the compliance center now regarding the info from NZTA on requirements for proof of ownership. Will update when I hear back

[T.W.R]

I needed one of those for the car I re-registered a few years ago but not for the bike I re-registered last year. Maybe it has changed recently? or they just dont enforce it.

I had to get one for the XS750 I'm currently working on :yes:
Went to VTNZ inquired as what would need to be done seeing the bike had been off the road since 1993 & purchased via Turners Auctions with no indication of who the previous owner was.
Luckily the old plate was still in the system (just) so It was a matter of supply proof of purchase, get the Statutory form of Decl from VTNZ fill it out with the bikes details & who I purchased the bike from and get it signed at the police station by the declarations officer otherwise I couldn't progress any further with getting the bike back on the road.
And once the bikes ready take all the paperwork with me when I go and get the bike run through compliance & re-registered and usable again :yes:

[AllanB]

I still think there is merit in rocking up with a bunch of lads armed with baseball bats. Old school motorcycling.

[awayatc]

I still think there is merit in rocking up with a bunch of lads armed with baseball bats. Old school motorcycling.

I feel like that to sometimes.....

But not quite the same effect after a few decades to many....

[PeterNZ]

Your options would include Disputes Tribunal (http://www.cab.org.nz/vat/tt/bs/Pages/Buyingprivately.aspx). Not sure if this would fall under the police's jurisdiction as a civil matter, but it might be worth contacting your local CAB for their take on it.I am currently going through a disputes tribunal case not bike related. I don't see a Dispute in this case here. Neither buyer nor seller dispute anything right?

Forget the police. They do bugger all. Same as in our case there is a legally binding agreement between both parties. This means it is a civil matter and police will refuse to get involved at all. Really stupid here in New Zealand.

Cheers

Peter

Sent from my LG-K220 using Tapatalk

[wishynz]

UPDATE:

From the shop, "This morning I have spoken to the *Company name* boss and he has confirmed what you have read and what I originally thought, that a Stat Declaration would suffice to prove ownership.
I will be getting the Bike Inspector back in hopefully in the next couple of days and he will sign it off."

Looks like the stat declaration is sufficient, will confirm once I have the bike back in hand though

[Mike.Gayner]

File a dispute against the person you purchased it from in the small claims court. Once they receive notification they will most likely amazingly find proof of purchase or the elusive phone number of the original owner.


I still think there is merit in rocking up with a bunch of lads armed with baseball bats. Old school motorcycling.

What is the dispute here? What has the previous owner got to do with this? The previous owner sold a non-registered vehicle. Once the transaction has taken place it no longer has ANYTHING TO DO with the previous owner. Anything the new buyer wanted from the prior owner should have been arranged at the time of the transaction, and anything given subsequently is at the generosity and discretion of the previous owner. I fucking HATE when people come to me with onerous requests after private a transaction has occurred, and generally don't respond.

OP, glad to hear you've more or less resolve this, but you did it ass-backwards. You should have contacted NZTA first to get a letter from them that you could produce to VTNZ etc. You've definitely done this the hard way and made everyone's life a little more difficult than necessary.

[rok-the-boat]

I got a bike registered - an old DR500. It had been in the system but I had no documents for it at all. What I did was to get a doc from the police, with frame and engine numbers on, I think I had a plate number too, saying they had no interest in the bike. Meaning - they had no record of it being stolen. That police document was all I needed to get the ball rolling. But, two VIN places told me no chance. I had given up when during another visit at a different VIN station for another reason led to another conversation and they said ... no problem. So ... if one place tells you "No" ... then try another !

[GazzaH]

I hope this turns out well for you, OP, and thanks for bringing it up.

It's a timely reminder to be extra-careful when buying from individuals as opposed to traders, when we just need to be careful.