Ducati pros & cons

[grotto]

I'm considering buying a Ducati, but know very little about them, other than anecdotal stories.

I'm looking at one of the single sided swing arm models, mainly for the looks, but have no idea if there are any differences which will affect me.

I do very few miles, bikes spend most of the time parked in the garage, and when I ride it's usually only a few hours at a time.

Currently ride my VFR400 the most, so HP isn't a big issue.
Budget is under $15k, but I'd rather stay around $10K.

Ideally I'd like something that I can park up for a few weeks, then get on and ride with no issues.

My VFR has been excellent, only ever needs tyres, chain, sprockets, and oil changes, but it's getting old, and a bit more power wouldn't go amiss.

I've seen 748's, 991's, 996's, & 1098's, but don't know the pros & cons of each.

Any advice would be helpful

Thanks

[jim.cox]

Just do it

The larger engines have more low down torque - the 748's like to rev.

For me, I'd be looking for the last of the 998's with the Testastretta motor

But any 'Dirty Unhealthy Crappy And Trashy Italian' will put a grin on your face - guaranteed

[T.W.R]

I'm considering buying a Ducati, but know very little about them, other than anecdotal stories.


https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=332684&d=1506121299

[TheDemonLord]

Ideally I'd like something that I can park up for a few weeks, then get on and ride with no issues.


So you're after a Honda then.... :P

[Voltaire]

Just do it

The larger engines have more low down torque - the 748's like to rev.

For me, I'd be looking for the last of the 998's with the Testastretta motor

But any 'Dirty Unhealthy Crappy And Trashy Italian' will put a grin on your face - guaranteed

Don't forget, great to ride round town on, easy diy servicing and cheap parts

[pritch]

I wouldn't associate the word "torque" with any Ducati with the possible exception of the Diavel which I haven't ridden. Unless you are revving them, there's nobody home in the engine department.

Things may well have changed for the better with the last few models, say from the 1098, but prior to that you were supposed to get the bike serviced whether you used it or not. The belts could develop a "set".

Don't judge them by the size either, the smaller ones won't be much, if any, any quicker than your VFR.

One of the two valve models might be OK, Trade Me might reveal a treasure, but as someone else said a Honda might be better for your intended use.

[AllanB]

I purchased a new Streetfighter 848 almost two years ago. Over 10,000 kms on it now. Love the darn thing.

I'm recommend getting the later model that you can, quality and reliability increased significantly a couple decades ago and parallels other brands you may be considering. Service intervals on the later models are 12,000 - 15,000 kms (or each year), belts 24 - 30,000 kms and the cost of a set of belts and valve check/adjusts is similar to a valve clearance check on any Japanese four or Euro twin or triple bike.

Narrow down what you are desiring as per any bike - yes a single sided swingarm is cool but makes fuck all riding difference on the road and if you want to do any of your own basic maintenance, you'll shell out for a one side race stand and a friggen big breaker bar and a decent high setting torque wrench if you want to remove your rear wheel at home. Add to the list of tools a suitable tool for chain adjusting (a big-arse C-wrench) and a decent 1/4 inch socket set with hex-head settings. Ducati like hex heads - everywhere - and the factory covers each one in loctite. A nice adjustable wrench makes life so much easier.

Rear tyres tend to wear out quicker on powerful twins - something to do with the engine pulses apparently - two lumpy ones as opposed to four smooth ones.

They are not for everyone. Fueling can be, hmmm average, at the low end, don't expect a HD stump puller you never rev above 4 thou - expect a engine that is telling you to harden the fuck up and twist the throttle when you are under 4 thou. Around town this can mean a bit of pissing about with gears and rpms. Over this, it accelerates so hard it will rip ya foreskin off if you ride naked.

They are all geared Heaven high from factory, it makes for a gloriously long first and second gear but utterly useless 6th (or 5th and 6th) if you are sitting on a 100. Other than mufflers the most common first change is a tooth down on the front sprocket to make those higher gears useable.

Mufflers - stock is generally nicely audible - but it's a Ducati and apparently there is a law that states stock mufflers must be replaced with boom cannons.

Handlebars are odd bends on some (monsters, streetfighter) you adapt or change them (easy). Seats are firm. Suspension is generally very good but Italian (firm).

Get a battery tender if you park it up for weeks - some models don't appear to like sitting and drain their batteries (no problem with mine).

Start test riding. As I said I love mine. I came from a long life of Japanese bikes and was looking for a change, every ride I enjoy and the oddities I've described I'd probably not tolerate on a Honda but embrace on the Ducati as it has re-lit my love of motorcycling when it was getting slightly ho-hum.

Ducati forums tend to wank on like they are gods own design and all others should get on their knees. This is bullshit. They a motorcycle, if you desire and enjoy them they are the same as any other brand one has desired, owns and enjoys.

Don't cover yourself in Ducati logos - you'll look like a poser.

The coolest motorcycle logo of all time on a black T-shirt is the Norton logo. I don't know why, it is just accepted by the masses as so. Which just makes it cooler.

And ultimately any brand of bike or style you buy that puts that smile on your face is just fine by me. I don't give a toss what you ride if you enjoy it.

PS - red ones are faster.

[OddDuck]

+1 to AllanB's post above.

I had my own (brief) experience with getting a wheel off on a single sided swingarm Monster, I was helping a mate change a chain and sprocket set... It was a fairly eye-opening experience. We had a 1.5m breaker bar and similar torque wrench, both in 3/4 inch format, for the job - he'd managed to borrow these off his engineering workplace. The tools were both absolute beasts and I hate to think what they cost... but even these things were barely up to the job. Why Ducati don't use 5-ish fasteners on a pitch circle is beyond me. Or maybe that's an Italian and style at all costs thing.

Also +1 to newer if possible. I have a bike from the mid-1990s and it requires near constant attention to keep going, aside from the usual 20+ y.o. bike issues, frequent service intervals for oil / valve clearances / belt condition and tension etc are normal.

All this said... they're great bikes, loads more character than anything I've seen out of Japan, parts availability (if not pricing) is nothing short of amazing (yes I still have full factory support for my 22 year old bike including replacement frames) and there's a vibrant aftermarket for goodies. EMS will do higher quality than OEM shims and shim retainers, for example.

[grotto]

So you're after a Honda then.... :P

Was thinking that may be the answer, but I've got a couple already.

[grotto]

All good info., plenty to think about.

will do a few test rides, and put up with the sales pitch.

Only do about 3,000 km per year per bike, as I try to use run them all.

[Drew]

There are no pros.

You're welcome.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm considering buying a Ducati, but know very little about them, other than anecdotal stories.



Any advice would be helpful

Thanks

Having worked in two Ducati stores over the years, the best advice I can give you is...don't do it.

[AllanB]

There are no pros.

Pro - Drew won't ask you for a ride on your Ducati :bleh:

[Laava]

I had my own (brief) experience with getting a wheel off on a single sided swingarm Monster, I was helping a mate change a chain and sprocket set... It was a fairly eye-opening experience. We had a 1.5m breaker bar and similar torque wrench, both in 3/4 inch format, for the job - he'd managed to borrow these off his engineering workplace. The tools were both absolute beasts and I hate to think what they cost... but even these things were barely up to the job. Why Ducati don't use 5-ish fasteners on a pitch circle is beyond me. Or maybe that's an Italian and style at all costs thing.

Went thru this myself this week and without the absolutely correct gear, you are asking for trouble. If however you have the correct low profile socket and a decent powerbar for removal, it can be done very quickly. The advice in the owners manual is that it should only be done by an authorized bla, bla, bla... Not many people however will have a big enough torque wrench to correctly nip it all back up! I had advice from a few ducati people and one thing people tend to do is grease the wrong parts on reassembly leading to overtightening. Fuck mine was tight and seemed it needed nowhere near the same force to torque it back up!
There are enough smiles per mile however to make up for all this kerfuffle!

[Voltaire]

I'm considering buying a Ducati, but know very little about them, other than anecdotal stories.

I'm looking at one of the single sided swing arm models, mainly for the looks, but have no idea if there are any differences which will affect me.

I do very few miles, bikes spend most of the time parked in the garage, and when I ride it's usually only a few hours at a time.

I've seen 748's, 991's, 996's, & 1098's, but don't know the pros & cons of each.

Any advice would be helpful

Thanks

As the owner of two Ducatis, if your only buying for looks and doing a few miles a Ducati will be perfect.

My 1983 BMW has a single sided swingarm, makes the the wheel easier to get on and off.

Why do Ducati persist with a redundant valve actuating system that adds complexity and cost with no mechanical advantage?

[Asher]

Does a Ducati that's worth buying that costs less than 10k even exist?

[AllanB]

Why do Ducati persist with a redundant valve actuating system that adds complexity and cost with no mechanical advantage?


I have a theory about this. It's all to do with T-shirt sales.

[Laava]

I have a theory about this. It's all to do with T-shirt sales.

Wonder how many issues they have with the shirts?

[MD]

Wonder how many issues they have with the shirts?
Three recalls I heard. Sticking around the neck port. Over heating problems leading to moisture build around the sleeve seams and leakages at the rear end.

[Laava]

Three recalls I heard. Sticking around the neck port. Over heating problems leading to moisture build around the sleeve seams and leakages at the rear end.

Tsk tsk, ya just don't get these problems with japanese shirts!

[Euro2018]

I usually ride a BMW F650 but was loaned a late model, ~700cc Ducati Monster last weekend to blast around Auckland.
Loved it, weird sensation having nothing in front of me (can't see the front wheel), compared to my BMW.
Had a great time.
Recommend you check out Moto Magnet who has a huge selection of Ducati in stock.
On Great South Rd off the Ellerslie exit.

[Brett]

Having worked in two Ducati stores over the years, the best advice I can give you is...don't do it.

Given that I am currently contemplating a Panigale 1299 S...PLEASE elaborate. Tossing up between that, S1000rr and new Yamaha R1...or (and this is the outlier) a KTM 690 SMCR. Keen to know why you reckon steer clear of Ducati's!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Given that I am currently contemplating a Panigale 1299 S...PLEASE elaborate. Tossing up between that, S1000rr and new Yamaha R1...or (and this is the outlier) a KTM 690 SMCR. Keen to know why you reckon steer clear of Ducati's!

Don't get me wrong, I do actually like Ducati's (hence wanting to work in the dealerships), but I couldn't live with one, unless I had way too much money, and didn't mind getting fucked around all the time waiting for bits etc. I also couldn't afford to service one, and they still to this day...seem to develop *issues* Japanese bikes don't normally suffer from.

[Brett]

Don't get me wrong, I do actually like Ducati's (hence wanting to work in the dealerships), but I couldn't live with one, unless I had way too much money, and didn't mind getting fucked around all the time waiting for bits etc. I also couldn't afford to service one, and they still to this day...seem to develop *issues* Japanese bikes don't normally suffer from.

Thanks. TBH I am actually leaning the way of the 690 SMC...keen to try something different. have owned a bunch of sportsbikes, but never a motard. They look like riotous fun.

[AllanB]

Basic standard servicing on mine has been no different to my Honda Hornet when that was new. Oil, filter, check over the usual bits and bobs they write down, over lube the already lubed chain - usual stuff. Does not take any longer so hours charged match. Pick your fav oil and pay accordingly.

[MD]

Don't get me wrong, I do actually like Ducati's (hence wanting to work in the dealerships), but I couldn't live with one, unless I had way too much money, and didn't mind getting fucked around all the time waiting for bits etc. I also couldn't afford to service one, and they still to this day...seem to develop *issues* Japanese bikes don't normally suffer from.

Gotta agree with Pete. I've friends that are loyal to Ducati and I admire them for that, they are beautiful bikes. But in those moments of honesty they admit the maintenance costs and ownership headaches are at the level many would not tolerate. 15 years on a regular group ride around the South island under my belt which always has a couple of Ducatis. We all agree the breakdowns are pretty much entirely in the Ducati camp. Every brand/bike will at some point have an issue, a loose bolt here, electrical short here. But with the Ducs on our ride, it's serious shit I couldn't afford. Major oil leaks, manifold cracking in half, entire front end subframe breaking off at the steering head welds, complete clutch failure/seizure- at least twice for the same Guy on different Ducs.

You can't put a price on love...unless you have fallen for a Ducati $$$

[Crasherfromwayback]

Basic standard servicing on mine has been no different to my Honda Hornet when that was new. Oil, filter, check over the usual bits and bobs they write down, over lube the already lubed chain - usual stuff. Does not take any longer so hours charged match. Pick your fav oil and pay accordingly.

When you have to do valve clearances...grab your ankles.

[AllanB]

When you have to do valve clearances...grab your ankles.

The bike came with a small jar of factory 'Ducati lube' for that moment.

Last time I paid for a IL4 Honda to have it's valves checked cost a shitload in hours. Worst thing was the darn things did not need adjusting ...... bloody Hondas.

Got a hidden stash in the garage I add a note to weekly for motorcycle related expenses (true story). It should be flush by the time it hits 24,000 kms provided I keep off the 'buy now' button on Ebay for my carbon fiber wine induced searches.

Resisting so far by simple reason of - what's the point of replacing a light piece of plastic with carbon fiber (other than physical appeal)?

Mrs B's VW Golf has given us the Euro rude invoice experience way too often. Fucks me off just looking at it some days. No shit the last one a month back was cheap - $240 I think. But that was to replace a $1 O-ring that was shitting coolant ......... Now I'm pretty sure there are shit loads more of those pesky bastards in that engine bay just waiting to fail .....

Who is the guy on KB with the big BMW GS1200 that posted a running cost list some time back - it was horrid! Mind you he has racked up the kms

[OddDuck]

When you have to do valve clearances...grab your ankles.

Or DIY. Honestly, it's not that hard to learn.

Recommend getting the opening rocker arm tool from MPB first though, it makes life a lot easier.

[OddDuck]

Gotta agree with Pete. I've friends that are loyal to Ducati and I admire them for that, they are beautiful bikes. But in those moments of honesty they admit the maintenance costs and ownership headaches are at the level many would not tolerate. 15 years on a regular group ride around the South island under my belt which always has a couple of Ducatis. We all agree the breakdowns are pretty much entirely in the Ducati camp. Every brand/bike will at some point have an issue, a loose bolt here, electrical short here. But with the Ducs on our ride, it's serious shit I couldn't afford. Major oil leaks, manifold cracking in half, entire front end subframe breaking off at the steering head welds, complete clutch failure/seizure- at least twice for the same Guy on different Ducs.

You can't put a price on love...unless you have fallen for a Ducati $$$

Also sadly true. In the time I've owned mine:

Frame repairs / rewelding - twice
Engine rebuild before 100,000 km - rings were totally rooted, main bearings fucked, gearbox shimming had already been done and whoever did it had done it wrong, so forth and so on
Clutch opened and worked on not less than 8 times
Major design issues with carburettion and tuning
Oil pump's about done
etc etc...

... but I've had more fun riding in the last three years than I did in the last twenty. It's been highs and lows.

This is all with a mid '90s carburetted Supersport; my mate who had a post 2000 injected Monster had no issues at all aside from a worn chain and sprocket set.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Or DIY. Honestly, it's not that hard to learn.

Recommend getting the opening rocker arm tool from MPB first though, it makes life a lot easier.

I know. I'm a mechanic by trade. But I couldn't be fucked.

[Drew]

Or DIY. Honestly, it's not that hard to learn.

Recommend getting the opening rocker arm tool from MPB first though, it makes life a lot easier.

I almost always advise people to learn how to do it. Don't think I'd suggest most folk have a go at a desmo though.

It's not that hard to have the valve gear constantly dragging after warm up.

Roll on pneumatic valve trains I say.

[OddDuck]

It's not that hard to have the valve gear constantly dragging after warm up.


Interesting (and a bit scary). Get the bike fully warmed up, come back and get the belts off, try turning the heads by hand and see? Or just run another shim clearance check?

[Drew]

Interesting (and a bit scary). Get the bike fully warmed up, come back and get the belts off, try turning the heads by hand and see? Or just run another shim clearance check?

It's just about setting them spot on first time round. I've just heard that some people end up with the closing follower 'riding' the back of the cam.

[McJim]

Meh, if you want a Ducati enough you'll buy it and pay for the maintenance or learn to do it yourself. I'm on to my second Ducati. I had the opportunity to get something else but couldn't help myself. I want to do my own valve clearances/shim replacements though so I went for an old Supersport as they have larger, easier to work on valves than the liquid cooled 4 valve per cylinder bikes. They are not super quick awe inspiring engines - just a lazy air-cooled twin at the end of the day. My 1997 600ss was my daily commuter in Auckland. I put 40,000 km on it with no mechanical problems - I kept the oil changes, belt changes and valve clearance checks all up to date. They sound and look great.

[Gremlin]

Thanks. TBH I am actually leaning the way of the 690 SMC...keen to try something different. have owned a bunch of sportsbikes, but never a motard. They look like riotous fun.
690 is a single and a bit ring ding. There is a 990SMR on TM, but has the smaller 15L tank, so between grins you'll need some gas. Fair warning tho, that is a hooligan toy! Long travel WP suspension makes mincemeat of NZ roads and the front wheel is quite optional at times :msn-wink:


Who is the guy on KB with the big BMW GS1200 that posted a running cost list some time back - it was horrid! Mind you he has racked up the kms
Me? I've spent the bikes value ($35k) again, but that's all servicing, all parts, all accessories (Ohlins was $5k+ alone, then trips down to have it serviced). Plus I've worn out the final drive and drive shaft, so on my second of those. I literally have a pile of boxes from Ebay (I :love: Ebay ) with stuff like another final drive, driveshaft, alternator (someone's shit itself at 140k, so I found a pretty decent one - just in case). It's about to get the 130k service and I've owned for 6.5-7 years, with the first year being spent as a shop demo. Mileage is dropping now, as I push more to the Hornet, because the BMW is expensive, and needs to be running to support sports events.

It's done pretty much everything from long trips to river crossings, lost count of the number of times it's been on it's side, and it's let me down once, fortunately at home. Wouldn't start for 2 days, and when the dealer finally looked at it, it started fine...

Mate's Multistrada 1200, he doesn't ride it much now, complains that bolts fall out so much he has to buy more to replace the lost ones... Whole tail piece got all flappy before he realised how many bolts were missing :laugh:

[Jerry74]

Cons - Italian bikes can be temperamental and grumpy.

Pros - Newer generation Ducati Panigale etc are chain driven not belt they are just as good as other brands.
If you get the Ducati bug it's incurable.

Older ones need love and regular servicing failing to upkeep the maintenance will end in tears.
Look after them and they are brilliant.

[Cosmik de Bris]

I have a 1299:

Con:It's hot around the legs, the seat is hard, the suspension is hard, it drinks fuel.
Pro:I can't wait to get on it any spare time I have.

Cheers

[Brett]

690 is a single and a bit ring ding. There is a 990SMR on TM, but has the smaller 15L tank, so between grins you'll need some gas. Fair warning tho, that is a hooligan toy! Long travel WP suspension makes mincemeat of NZ roads and the front wheel is quite optional at times :msn-wink:



I think I recall riding your one? Not opposed to something that encourages "spirited" riding.

Got a bit carried away on the weekend. Intended on going out to look at bikes, instead came home with a new car ordered. I blame the shit weather. At least it's an Audi...in the same family as Ducati :sweatdrop

Guess the new road bike will need to wait a little while now.

[pritch]

Contrary to earlier reports it's now reported that VW have no intention of selling Ducati.