Road toll - Police stupid obsession blaming speed

[MD]

Watched the TV News tonight and yet again all the Police can say is we are speeding and we need to lower the speed limits. After decades of rolling out that same lame excuse. When, when, when, will they open their minds to the fact that, just maybe, other factors are behind why their decades of over Policing speeding has made no impact what so ever on the road toll.

Sadly we have had two terrible head on crashes that sparked today's Media flurry. Southland one on a perfectly straight road. Taupo on a slight curve with double yellow lines. Both sections appear to provide good forward visibility. Yellow lines by the way mean don't cross to the other side. The other side being deceased.

How fast any of these vehicles were going is irrelevant if they were capable of staying on their own side of the centre line. Whether they were doing 80kpm or 800kpm they would have safely passed each other on their respective sides of the road. Just maybe, just maybe, crossing the centreline is why they struck each other head on.

The Taupo crash was between two families in people movers. Really! to come out within hours saying speed is the problem. Brilliant investigative work. Yeah right, I see MPVs tearing around NZ at 160kpm plus all the time. The only thing speeding here was the rate the Police jumped to that conclusion.

Lets take a wild guess that in each tragic case one of the drivers somehow wandered across the centreline. An essential element for a head on to occur. Speed in these situations determines the extent of the damage but even at 80kph a head on is going to kill so don't blame exceeding the speed limit for causing the crashes (unproven at this point in time). Another wild guess could be mechanical failure, blowout or that a driver was distracted or tired.

If I got a dollar for every time I saw someone driving with a phone in their face I would be a rich man. Maybe the Police should follow that advice and make the Government rich- with the unexpected surprise of reducing the road toll. Pigs will fly before that approach happens.

[george formby]

Generally this guy gets up my nose but......

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/97780162/our-roads-are-deathtraps-says-safety-campaigner

[McJim]

Pigs will fly before that approach happens.

I thought the Police already used helicopters in Auckland. :Pokey::Police:

[Blackbird]

WHilst I agree with MD and George Formby, driving standards in this country are pretty poor overall and what makes matters worse are the apparently low expectations of the authorities. Unless we address the root cause, it's rather a lost cause. Of course, raising standards with some vigour will be seen as draconian, so no politician is going to grasp that nettle. That leaves ambulance at the bottom of the cliff solutions such as speed restrictions, increased insurance premiums etc which all have limited impact.

Depressing, innit? :no:

[george formby]

WHilst I agree with MD and George Formby, driving standards in this country are pretty poor overall and what makes matters worse are the apparently low expectations of the authorities. Unless we address the root cause, it's rather a lost cause. Of course, raising standards with some vigour will be seen as draconian, so no politician is going to grasp that nettle. That leaves with ambulance at the bottom of the cliff solutions such as speed restrictions, increased insurance premiums etc which all have limited impact.

Depressing, innit? :no:

Concur. Ignorance is curable, at a cost.

It would be good to take the bean counters and enforcement planners out of the road safety equation and minimise the problem from a human perspective.

Won't happen as long as money reigns supreme over respect for life. I should imagine that current road safety policies will give NZ the slowest average road speed of any first world country and maintain the high casualty rate.

Depressing indeed.

[george formby]

How do you know that increasing insurance premiums and I assume you mean as I do for those with a history of being at fault will not bring down the road toll? If those with a history of being at fault are forced off the road due to higher premiums will we not have safer roads? I think its worth a try as everything else has failed. As for all those who say our licensing system is poor compared to other countries I think that is nonsense otherwise tourist drivers would not cause crashes.

I think you live in an oxygen tent with an empty gas bottle. You post like someone with narcosis.

[Honest Andy]

If you have a better idea lets hear it? Unless my idea is tried no one will ever know.

unless you listen, you will never know
unless you engage your brain, you will never know
unless you try to understand, you will never know

oh well...

[Blackbird]

How do you know that increasing insurance premiums and I assume you mean as I do for those with a history of being at fault will not bring down the road toll? If those with a history of being at fault are forced off the road due to higher premiums will we not have safer roads? I think its worth a try as everything else has failed. As for all those who say our licensing system is poor compared to other countries I think that is nonsense otherwise tourist drivers would not cause crashes.

Wrong assumption. I mean that the insurers and/or ACC will simply increase everyone's insurances as they always do but will it not deter anyone from driving although it might encourage more people to drive without insurance.

This is not arguing with you because you've already demonstrated that it's pointless.

[nzspokes]

WHilst I agree with MD and George Formby, driving standards in this country are pretty poor overall and what makes matters worse are the apparently low expectations of the authorities. Unless we address the root cause, it's rather a lost cause. Of course, raising standards with some vigour will be seen as draconian, so no politician is going to grasp that nettle. That leaves with ambulance at the bottom of the cliff solutions such as speed restrictions, increased insurance premiums etc which all have limited impact.

Depressing, innit? :no:

Agree and agree with the article. All you can do is try to avoid as much as you can.

Had a woman pull out on me today. She was looking right at me. Good thing I was in a good position to see her and do something about it. Did work out I need a new shock. :facepalm:

[AllanB]

The only thing we can individually do about it is buy maybe a 4WD over a bike/car to give us a chance of coming off better if a muppet screws up

Fucks sake - muppets on TV this week in the head on were two 4WD's. From what I see on the road the 4WD drivers are under the illusion that they are invincible.

[Blackbird]

Putting up insurance for everyone will do nothing as there is no incentive to "improve" for those who have a history of "at fault" crashes.

Talk about stating the bleeding obvious, of course it won't :facepalm:

[pritch]

From what I see on the road the 4WD drivers are under the illusion that they are invincible.

A similar thought has already been expressed in this thread. It would have been easily missed. :whistle:

[granstar]

What I am trying to point out is that if you are in something bigger than the muppet that screws up you have a chance of coming out of the crash better off. Sure there are muppets in bigger vehicles too but as I read in a media post yesterday its a lottery out on the road and having a bigger vehicle just like buying more than one lottery ticket just may give you a better chance.

Wouldn't agree with that, driving defensively you have more chance of survival, with more chance to avoid a head on a bike.

There has been no exact conclusion to the cause of these accidents, (speed seemingly an easy cop out) the variables are great, condition of roads, tiredness, weather, unfamiliarity to N.Z driving rules, vehicle or driver faults, chickens crossing the road, etc.
At a guess inattention or distraction (kids in cars), we are all human and make mistakes (if you are a motorcyclist that cruises at 100 KPH all day long you're nose is growing), unfortunately deceased don't reveal.

[Berries]

Don't know much about the Taupo crash other than it happened at the end of a passing lane suggesting someone was pushing it a bit much considering how many passengers they had on board. But I could be wrong. A little more familiar with Dipton where speed was not an issue. Well, it was in so much as if both vehicles were doing 20km/h then nobody would have died. Not seen the TV story yet but speed is not the be all and end all, it is just all there is re enforcement.

The Police cannot enforce stupidity. They cannot enforce ignorance and they cannot enforce fatigue. And, to be brutally honest, they cannot deal with someone from overseas straying on to the wrong side of the road just that once that catches them out and unfortunately catches someone else out who was minding their own business. They can enforce shit driving if they witness it, and excess speed wherever they want, but the chances of that making a difference to the road roll are actually negligible. If a change is really really really desired then it is going to have to come from a different avenue than what has been the norm for the last 20 years.

[Berries]

But doesnt having a bigger vehicle e.g. 4WD cover you better irrespective of what the reason is for muppets screwing up? What a lot on this website dont realize is that muppets don't all screw up at speeds or distances that necessarily will give you time to brake or swerve etc around them.
I am not really not sure why you bother posting on this website. You know the reaction you get and now here you are saying that a 4wd is the best vehicle out there. On a motorbike forum. And you still bang on about not having time to react when the rest of us seem to have had enough time not to have become a statistic on multiple occasions. You should really take some of the advice offered by others on here and just fuck right off.

No offence.

[granstar]

I am not really not sure why you bother posting on this website. You know the reaction you get and now here you are saying that a 4wd is the best vehicle out there. On a motorbike forum. And you still bang on about not having time to react when the rest of us seem to have had enough time not to have become a statistic on multiple occasions. You should really take some of the advice offered by others on here and just fuck right off.

No offence.

Beat me to that :yes: (not listening, or has no riding skill me thinks?)

[AllanB]

But doesnt having a bigger vehicle e.g. 4WD cover you better irrespective of what the reason is for muppets screwing up? What a lot on this website dont realize is that muppets don't all screw up at speeds or distances that necessarily will give you time to brake or swerve etc around them.

Sure, sure - big vehicles don't crash http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11923779

[HenryDorsetCase]

Fucks sake - muppets on TV this week in the head on were two 4WD's. From what I see on the road the 4WD drivers are under the illusion that they are invincible.

I posted this on farce book yesterday it was parked in the carpark outside work. If you are in one of these I think you ARE invincible. I was lambasting it for taking up three carparks and generally being a waste of space and so forth. Turns out its owned by a client and tows an equally large and ostentatious boat about with it for fishing purposes. Or porpoises. Something aquatic anyway. :facepalm:

[HenryDorsetCase]

one at least of these crashes (some fucktard named Moccasin McFuckface) was a fuckwit in a stolen car trying to evade pleece. I am glad he is dead and hope that more of his ilk do likewise - the only caveat being the kill themselves and their like and not decent right thinking taxpayers such as myself. Because fuck those clowns. Steal a car, drive the wrong way down the motorway, try and drive like GTA San An then find out the hard way that real world physics dont work like that. Their deaths are a net benefit for our species and we should celebrate them. I am, in my own special way.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Wouldn't agree with that, driving defensively you have more chance of survival, with more chance to avoid a head on a bike.

There has been no exact conclusion to the cause of these accidents, (speed seemingly an easy cop out) the variables are great, condition of roads, tiredness, weather, unfamiliarity to N.Z driving rules, vehicle or driver faults, chickens crossing the road, etc.
At a guess inattention or distraction (kids in cars), we are all human and make mistakes (if you are a motorcyclist that cruises at 100 KPH all day long you're nose is growing), unfortunately deceased don't reveal.

two words for you Kim: ignore list

[caspernz]

Generally this guy gets up my nose but......

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/97780162/our-roads-are-deathtraps-says-safety-campaigner

I'd love to know what his qualifications are for commenting on road safety...:facepalm::shit:...as those muttonchops aren't much chop in the safety stakes :innocent::violin:


WHilst I agree with MD and George Formby, driving standards in this country are pretty poor overall and what makes matters worse are the apparently low expectations of the authorities. Unless we address the root cause, it's rather a lost cause. Of course, raising standards with some vigour will be seen as draconian, so no politician is going to grasp that nettle. That leaves with ambulance at the bottom of the cliff solutions such as speed restrictions, increased insurance premiums etc which all have limited impact.

Depressing, innit? :no:

The sad part is that if one first obtained their drivers license in a first world country, it's easy to spot the difference to NZ standards. Politics stops the progress. Boys in blue haven't got the numbers to keep poor habits in check. The focus on speed, or at least the perception thereof, doesn't help the overall problem. Enforce the basics is all I'd like to see for starters. Lane discipline, tailgating, indicating, red light running, seat belt use, cell phone use, speed thru roadworks etc.


How do you know that increasing insurance premiums and I assume you mean as I do for those with a history of being at fault will not bring down the road toll? If those with a history of being at fault are forced off the road due to higher premiums will we not have safer roads? I think its worth a try as everything else has failed. As for all those who say our licensing system is poor compared to other countries I think that is nonsense otherwise tourist drivers would not cause crashes.

My home country runs with third party insurance being part of your rego, so rego is quite expensive. Get sprung without rego, you lose the vehicle. Instantly, no messing about with the wet bus ticket. Same for no drivers license, get sprung, you lose the vehicle there and then. Drivers license is seen as a privilege, whereas here it's seen as a right. Still too damn easy to get a license here. Penalty for driving without seems of no consequence.

The tourist driver topic is a separate issue, and the media have done a sterling job at blowing it out of proportion. For every tourist I've seen doing something dodgy, there's a shitload of locals doing even dodgier stuff. The stats don't stack up. But we're not allowed to talk about China and the IDP scheme, which they're not a member of...:innocent::facepalm:

[roogazza]

one at least of these crashes (some fucktard named Moccasin McFuckface) was a fuckwit in a stolen car trying to evade pleece. I am glad he is dead and hope that more of his ilk do likewise - the only caveat being the kill themselves and their like and not decent right thinking taxpayers such as myself. Because fuck those clowns. Steal a car, drive the wrong way down the motorway, try and drive like GTA San An then find out the hard way that real world physics dont work like that. Their deaths are a net benefit for our species and we should celebrate them. I am, in my own special way.

Natural selection henry, it ain't gunna stop . No re offending huh ! :laugh:

[Akzle]

, seat belt use, cell phone use,
.
:

nothing to do with safety

[Voltaire]

Seeing as Highway Cops and the like are so popular, put some actual crashes on them with all the graphic detail instead. Why should the Emergency Services

people have to see the publics 'accidents".

They post up crash pics on billboards in Vietnam.

I still like the idea of a large spike sticking out of the steering wheel pointing at the driver.

Leaving passing until after the sign saying ending in x metres is pretty common.

[Woodman]

The reason why I said a 4WD was safer on this thread was because poster 1 was just bringing up road crashes in general as opposed to motorcycle specific crashes. I am no longer the only poster on here who did not have enough time to avoid impact and he unlike me had been to riding school like you and some others on here. You and others are deluded if you think being a graduate of a riding school will always make you resistant to the screw ups of others. You need to look at discussion forums on other websites on road safety as the views are very different off this site. It might be safer however to just limit yourself to this site as you will end up reading too many posts similar to mine outside this site.

Not fucking one fucking poster on this fucking site has fucking ever fucking suggested that they are fucking resistant to fucking crashes because they have fucking been to fucking riding fucking school.

[OddDuck]

The cops are in something of a slow tailspin. The anti-speed campaign has effectively criminalised just about everyone in NZ; it's set the average Kiwi against their own police force.

The public and the cops in this country used to have one of the best working relationships in the world. That's gone... it's now very definitely an us-vs-them situation.

End result is lots of cops leaving the job, because who'd want a job where just about everyone hates you?

This isn't a good thing for us bikers. I mean that. There are cage drivers out there who are very real threats to our physical safety and we need the cops to keep a lid on that for us. Yes, we'll get nicked speeding. We'll have to live with it. The alternative (of increasing anarchy) is worse.

As to fixing the situation - until the top cops publicly eat some humble pie and admit that there's more to it than just speed, I can't see things getting better.

[neels]

Speeding contributes to accidents only from the point of view that at some point your speed will exceed your skill and/or the physics that keep your vehicle where you want it to be. Unfortunately the police aren't able to measure poor judgement with a radar gun, so they focus on what they can actually measure and not have to argue in court to prove their case.

One of my family is a traffic police officer, he doesn't get too bothered with speed unless it's really excessive for the particular road. He does however bother with no seat belts, unrestrained children in cars, people using cellphones, and dodgy courier drivers.

Pinging people for 10k over the limit on straight roads, or at the end of passing lanes, does nothing to improve road safety.

[jellywrestler]

Unfortunately the police aren't able to measure poor judgement with a radar gun, so they focus on what they can actually measure and not have to argue in court to prove their case.

no but judges are, put cameras in our police cars and let them deal with all offences,
pinging someone for speed means they don't have to spend time in court off the road, if they had footage to accompany a ticket then the courts can deal with that and they can stay on the road.

[Scuba_Steve]

Speed Kills! even the hippies are scared of it
332900

[TheDemonLord]

If they were serious about reducing the road toll they would:

1: Upgrade all our major inter-city aeterial routes to dual carriage ways, with a central divider
2: Change our licence testing procedures to include a bigger focus on open-road, Motorway and back-road driving (especially for full license car drivers)
3: Introduce defensive driving/Hazard Awareness type education as mandatory at a Highschool level
4: Scheduled re-testing of licensed drivers
5: Really crack down on Drink Driving, especially habitual drink driving (on your 3rd offence, you should be shot)
6: Work on re-engineering major roads, that still have 20-30 kph hairpins in them - great for back roads and having fun, retarded for main access roads.

Do all of the above - and our road toll would practically vanish over night.

But that would mean several things:

- Spending lots of Money
- Admitting that Speed is not and never really was the major factor

[Drew]

If they were serious about reducing the road toll they would:

1: Upgrade all our major inter-city aeterial routes to dual carriage ways, with a central divider
2: Change our licence testing procedures to include a bigger focus on open-road, Motorway and back-road driving (especially for full license car drivers)
3: Introduce defensive driving/Hazard Awareness type education as mandatory at a Highschool level
4: Scheduled re-testing of licensed drivers
5: Really crack down on Drink Driving, especially habitual drink driving (on your 3rd offence, you should be shot)
6: Work on re-engineering major roads, that still have 20-30 kph hairpins in them - great for back roads and having fun, retarded for main access roads.

Do all of the above - and our road toll would practically vanish over night.

But that would mean several things:

- Spending lots of Money
- Admitting that Speed is not and never really was the major factor
Would cost the end user, not the government.

Being allowed to drive is a commodity, not a right.

If it costs a grand or more, so be it. Works in Germany.

[chasio]

Watched the TV News tonight and yet again all the Police can say is we are speeding and we need to lower the speed limits. After decades of rolling out that same lame excuse. When, when, when, will they open their minds to the fact that, just maybe, other factors are behind why their decades of over Policing speeding has made no impact what so ever on the road toll.

Sadly we have had two terrible head on crashes that sparked today's Media flurry. Southland one on a perfectly straight road. Taupo on a slight curve with double yellow lines. Both sections appear to provide good forward visibility. Yellow lines by the way mean don't cross to the other side. The other side being deceased.

How fast any of these vehicles were going is irrelevant if they were capable of staying on their own side of the centre line. Whether they were doing 80kpm or 800kpm they would have safely passed each other on their respective sides of the road. Just maybe, just maybe, crossing the centreline is why they struck each other head on.


And also two died just north of Te Kuiti on Sunday after crossing the centreline. The recent spate has been so horrific that we're losing track of our head-on fatalities.

I don't know if it's the same copper as on the news (Greally was his name) but according to the Harold (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11931797) he said "The bottom line is decision-making from our drivers - this problem won't go away until this country understands that this is a really serious problem". Either he's disagreeing with himself or the headline is misleading (or both).

Anyway, it's hard to argue that decision making is a really serious problem. It's one that training not only in information gathering and risk assessment but also emotional competence can really help with. Feeling pissed off and frustrated: I'll overtake over this slight crest 'cause I don't *think* there'll be anyone there. Feeling more level-headed: I'll wait until I can see better, thanks.

None of which is about speed per se.

[TheDemonLord]

Would cost the end user, not the government.

Being allowed to drive is a commodity, not a right.

If it costs a grand or more, so be it. Works in Germany.

Indeed - The Autobahn really is the gold standard in motorway design and maintenance.

Although - in NZ, I would argue that driving is almost a right - mainly since the public transport options are often limited and insufficient.

[Akzle]

fucken, how many times can this conversation be had with none of you old white cunts learning anything??



As to fixing the situation - until the top cops publicly eat some humble pie and admit that there's more to it than just speed, I can't see things getting better.

the cops job is to enforce policy. beginning and end of.
the policy is thou shalt not exceed the posted limit.
the policy is set by teh government. specifically, nzta.

nzta also fund a large portion of the police. so in order to keep getting the sweet sweet budget, the police have to show a return on investment.

it's nothing to do with "safety". it's all about budget.

thanks for playing. dont forget to vote.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Pinging people for 10k over the limit on straight roads, or at the end of passing lanes, does nothing to improve road safety, but it's great for statistics and revenue so thats why we do it - Senior Road Pleecing Manager.

I fixed that for you.

[James Deuce]

Generally this guy gets up my nose but......

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/97780162/our-roads-are-deathtraps-says-safety-campaigner
He's wrong. As usual. We're a country of 4.5 million people with no appreciable economic growth and 30 years of two political ruling parties being fanatically opposed to infrastructure investment.

And yet we have a comprehensive road network from North to South and East to West that is in the main a network of sealed roads.

Our expectations for road quality are way too high.

Our expectations of driver competence are way too low.

Imagine reducing to the UK population to less than 5 million people, cutting England, Wales and Scotland in half across the middle and then expecting that country to have decent roads.

Currently they can do motorways. But their A roads are dodgy and anything under that is horrendous.

The scenario above would result in the UK having network of single lane goat tracks guarded by fag smoking, tractor driving bumpkins on steam powered traction engines.

[HenryDorsetCase]

fucken,

thanks for playing. dont forget to vote.

You're a deeply flawed and cynical individual. Possibly why I enjoy you so much. That and the mad buttsecks.

[Whynot]

thanks for playing. dont forget to vote.

Is there an election or something coming up?

[Voltaire]

Indeed - The Autobahn really is the gold standard in motorway design and maintenance.

Although - in NZ, I would argue that driving is almost a right - mainly since the public transport options are often limited and insufficient.

Autobahns are great, no trucks in the fast lane, and only use the fast lane if your going fast or overtaking.
And on lots of them the opposing traffic is some distance away.
I did see some crashes on them....messy.

Govt will be keen on self drive cars as cheaper than doing better roads.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Autobahns are great, no trucks in the fast lane, and only use the fast lane if your going fast or overtaking.
And on lots of them the opposing traffic is some distance away.
I did see some crashes on them....messy.

Govt will be keen on self drive cars as cheaper than doing better roads.

I'm keen for self driving car. Will be able to watch pr0nz and have a wank on the way into work.... I mean I do that most days anyway, it'll just be easier then

[James Deuce]

I'm keen for self driving car. Will be able to watch pr0nz and have a wank on the way into work....
I've gone off self-drive Uber...

[Doppleganger]

The police are so barking up the wrong tree.
Lowering speed limits isn't going to do anything to those that speed
Changing our roads will lower the death toll considerably, separating traffic so they cant hit each other for example, paint on a road and a number on a board is going to do jack shit!

[Swoop]

After decades of rolling out that same lame excuse. When, when, when, will they open their minds to the fact that, just maybe, other factors are behind why their decades of over Policing speeding has made no impact what so ever on the road toll.
That is what happens when you have decades of propaganda shoved down your throat by your supervisors. The term "brain washing" could be used as well.
Sadly they now only have ONE record to play and it is well and truly ineffective.


one at least of these crashes (some fucktard named Moccasin McFuckface) was a fuckwit in a stolen car trying to evade pleece. I am glad he is dead and hope that more of his ilk do likewise - the only caveat being the kill themselves and their like and not decent right thinking taxpayers such as myself. Because fuck those clowns. Steal a car, drive the wrong way down the motorway, try and drive like GTA San An then find out the hard way that real world physics dont work like that. Their deaths are a net benefit for our species and we should celebrate them. I am, in my own special way.
A huge "Thank you" has to go out to Mr Darwin!
Love your work Sir, and this time you were VERY accurate in getting rid of the correct scum, without injuring anyone else.:niceone:

If they were serious about reducing the road toll they would:

1: Upgrade all our major inter-city aeterial routes to dual carriage ways, with a central divider
Why bother with the roads? They are not to blame at all. It is the vehicle operator that is the problem.


Lowering speed limits isn't going to do anything to those that speed

Actually it will. It increases the chance of the plod writing more tickets.
That results in them claiming (incorrectly) that they are "doing something"... Actually they are just alienating themselves from the public, who they actually need to solve real crimes, etc, etc.

[Drew]

Indeed - The Autobahn really is the gold standard in motorway design and maintenance.

Although - in NZ, I would argue that driving is almost a right - mainly since the public transport options are often limited and insufficient.
I'm talking about the standard they have to achieve before being allowed to drive.

[Grumph]

I'm talking about the standard they have to achieve before being allowed to drive.

If you think that's high - and it's certainly much higher than NZ - have a look at their vehicle standards regs.

Sorry sir, your tyre is the wrong size/brake lines aren't OE/lightbulb is wrong/mufflers aren't OE.....off the road immediately and pay danegeld NOW...

[Navy Boy]

WHilst I agree with MD and George Formby, driving standards in this country are pretty poor overall and what makes matters worse are the apparently low expectations of the authorities. Unless we address the root cause, it's rather a lost cause. Of course, raising standards with some vigour will be seen as draconian, so no politician is going to grasp that nettle. That leaves ambulance at the bottom of the cliff solutions such as speed restrictions, increased insurance premiums etc which all have limited impact.

Depressing, innit? :no:

I'm with you BB. In addition is the apparent haste with which the media jump to the wrong conclusion when it comes to the causes (And there'll be many for each case I'm sure) in the vain hope of selling papers/gathering viewers etc.

My personal bugbear is the rampant use of social media devices by drivers whilst they are on the move. I use the word rampant quite deliberately as here in AKL it is nothing short of rife. The whole gamut of activity is catered for from old fashioned talking to texting and everything inbetween. A purge on this would be relatively easy to do as well, that's the depressing bit for me...

In the meantime I guess one simply has to ensure that one's own driving/riding is at as good a standard as it can practically be.

Stay safe out there people.:blink:

[Akzle]

You're a deeply flawed and cynical individual. Possibly why I enjoy you so much. That and the mad buttsecks.

awwwwwww. thanks mum.

[neels]

I'm keen for self driving car. Will be able to watch pr0nz and have a wank on the way into work.... I mean I do that most days anyway, it'll just be easier then
There's a win-win, as long as you get a commission on any income from the in-car voyeur webcam.

[Drew]

Only those with a history for being at fault should fund all those things otherwise what incentive is there to improve?

Fuck off you stupid cunt.

Most drivers and riders in this country are fucking useless at it.

In all mathematical probability you and I are in all.

I don't mind if it costs me a lot to prove I can drive and am safe to do it amongst others.

[Ocean1]

If you think that's high - and it's certainly much higher than NZ - have a look at their vehicle standards regs.

Sorry sir, your tyre is the wrong size/brake lines aren't OE/lightbulb is wrong/mufflers aren't OE.....off the road immediately and pay danegeld NOW...

Yep, we've already traveled way too far in the direction of too many fucking bureaucratic wankers telling everyone else what they can't to. Fuckem. Really. Stop encouraging them by incessantly complaining about shit, just kneecap the pricks, they've got far too much to say for themselves.

Re the road toll thingy, we are, in fact doing unbelievably, spectacularly well. When you consider the millions of kiwis that come within a couple of meters of millions of other kiwis traveling at a closing velocity of a couple of hundred kph every single fucking day and COMPLETELY FAIL TO HIT THEM how can you claim the extraordinarily rare exception is some sort of catastrophe?

For fuxache give it a rest, how close to perfect do they expect to get with this shit? Seriously? The point where common sense, costs, benefits and the laws of diminishing returns collide is way, way over our left shoulder, until the fuckwits grow some sort of a sense of proportion they can fuck off with all the faux horror and righteously indignant bullshit.

[AllanB]

One odd thing among the cries for lower speed limits, I read recently statistically the high end performance cars are selling very well in NZ. I see a lot more on our roads as well.

So if lower speeds are 'good' fit speed governors to every vehicle. Lets see how that works.................

[Murray]

The only thing we can individually do about it is buy maybe a 4WD over a bike/car to give us a chance of coming off better if a muppet screws up. Many on here would say that "at fault" car drivers should be made to attend the equivalent of riding school maybe.

You really are a dick = so maybe everyone should be driving trucks as it seems most accidents involving trucks the truck driver seems to be better off

I think with your logic only Tanks should be allowed on the road

[JimO]

i did a 400k round trip in a fast car last weekend, on the pretty good main roads most traffic was sitting between 85 to 95 ks.......get past one arsehat holding up traffic and you soon come across another one, perhaps the police could do something about the slow drivers, not slow at passing lanes though, i tailed one geezer who was doing a religious 90 until we hit the passing lane he sped up to 120 till we got to the end then back to 90, cunts like that we could do without

[Murray]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11932482

80% of accidents caused by vehicles under the speed limit

[caspernz]

nothing to do with safety

Seat belts and cell phone use are safety items. Seat belts are passive safety. Using a cell phone makes the average drivers' skill/ability/attention to driving diminish significantly.

[awayatc]

Maybe it will take ..blah blah..understand my logic. .

Logic...logic....?

Woman you are a ranting raving lunatic....

You wouldn't know the meaning of the word "logic"

A malnourished flea of the arse of a dehydrated old camel has more logic then you....

[caspernz]

I'm keen for self driving car. Will be able to watch pr0nz and have a wank on the way into work.... I mean I do that most days anyway, it'll just be easier then

Thank you for sharing :devil2:



In the meantime I guess one simply has to ensure that one's own driving/riding is at as good a standard as it can practically be.

The old maxim is "time to react" and it's one I subscribe to, whilst we wait for officialdom to steer us in the right direction :rolleyes:


Only those with a history for being at fault should fund all those things otherwise what incentive is there to improve?

Or you could just make the standard required to get the license a bit higher, that seems to work in quite a few countries.



80% of accidents caused by vehicles under the speed limit

Now there's a surprise, not! :rolleyes:

[granstar]

One odd thing among the cries for lower speed limits, I read recently statistically the high end performance cars are selling very well in NZ. I see a lot more on our roads as well.

So if lower speeds are 'good' fit speed governors to every vehicle. Lets see how that works.................

Information is a bit vague too..

332902

Cassina
Fuxkin dangerous practice and what right have you be a traffic enforcer? You'll get it wrong one day.

[Scuba_Steve]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11932482

80% of accidents caused by vehicles under the speed limit

Extremely targeted view of the "speeders" that do have accidents above the speed limit tho

"Of the 20 per cent of accidents that occur above the speed limit, almost all are caused by either yobbos, impaired drivers or outlaw motorcyclists."

[Akzle]

Seat belts and cell phone use are safety items. Seat belts are passive safety. Using a cell phone makes the average drivers' skill/ability/attention to driving diminish significantly.

noooooooope.

well, obviously shit drivers aren't improved by... anything.

but cellphones are no more inherently dangerous than any other distracto bullshit.
get with the times old fulla. the next generation live on the fucken things.

[granstar]

noooooooope.

well, obviously shit drivers aren't improved by... anything.

but cellphones are no more inherently dangerous than any other distracto bullshit.
get with the times old fulla. the next generation live on the fucken things.

Fixed ( the current generation live on the fucken things).

332903

[Drew]

You sound like one of those muppets on here who is happy with the high cost of bike registration irrespective of whether you have a history of being at fault or not. I bet you believe in emissions taxes too to stop global warming.

Haven't registered a bike since the price went up.

I think that if less carbon was released into the atmosphere, the planet would sustain us longer. But its gonna outlast my kids and myself, so I don't really care. Cunts that deny we are having an effect fuck me off.

Much like you and your fucking dribble fuck me off.

[caspernz]

noooooooope.

well, obviously shit drivers aren't improved by... anything.

but cellphones are no more inherently dangerous than any other distracto bullshit.
get with the times old fulla. the next generation live on the fucken things.

The cell phone use of the Jafa commuter is one of those things that make me glad I can fly my helicopter to work...:killingme

[Swoop]

The cell phone use of the Jafa commuter is one of those things that make me glad I can fly my helicopter to work...:killingme
Be careful. There are now two pigs in the sky.

Looking back at the last time that happened, they crashed into each other.

[granstar]

[QUOTE=cassina;. Sure I may go over the speed limit but I do that when I overtake myself anyway.[/QUOTE]

:facepalm:....:Police:

[AllanB]

Sure I may go over the speed limit but I do that when I overtake myself anyway.

You must be going fucking fast to overtake yourself.

[granstar]

:killingme yeah bit of a joke.

[granstar]

So you are a motorcycling ACC freeloader then? You do realise that the only way for the planet to be saved with the belief you have is for there to be no human or animals on it but even then you get fires started by lightening and volcanos putting out emissions.

On that basis keep riding.:scooter: safely.

[Drew]

So you are a motorcycling ACC freeloader then? You do realise that the only way for the planet to be saved with the belief you have is for there to be no human or animals on it but even then you get fires started by lightening and volcanos putting out emissions.
You can look at it that way if you like.

If you could direct me to where I said that climate change was only happening due to human activity.

The planet will continue to cycle through high and low carbon atmosphere. Complex life will always be here as long as the sun is there. All I said was that we're speeding the process up.

[Drew]

You gave me the impression that the effect that humans were having on climate change/global warming was a worry despite saying you did not care as well. Either you are a believer in it or not? For me if its happening I will be able to look forward to lower powerbills in the Winter but doubt it will happen in my lifetime. Emissions taxation is going to stop it according to the polititions whatever happens in reality.

Holy shit, you really are a fucken thick cunt.

Learn to fucking read bitch.

[scumdog]

. Using a cell phone makes the average drivers' skill/ability/attention to driving diminish significantly.

THAT'S for real!

And the dumber they are the more they 'need' to use the phone while driving.
:brick:

[Voltaire]

THAT'S for real!

And the dumber they are the more they 'need' to use the phone while driving.
:brick:


They must be using the app.

332910

[RDJ]

You must be going fucking fast to overtake yourself.

The Rider Ouroboros...

[RDJ]

i did a 400k round trip in a fast car last weekend, on the pretty good main roads most traffic was sitting between 85 to 95 ks.......get past one arsehat holding up traffic and you soon come across another one, perhaps the police could do something about the slow drivers, not slow at passing lanes though, i tailed one geezer who was doing a religious 90 until we hit the passing lane he sped up to 120 till we got to the end then back to 90, cunts like that we could do without

...and this is why a supercharger really helps when overtaking quick-style on a clear straight with good vision. As long as not leaving it late till the single lane comes close...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Putting up insurance for everyone will do nothing as there is no incentive to "improve" for those who have a history of "at fault" crashes.

Fuck you're dumb.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No fuck you are the dumb one as if you take out vehicle insurance and you have an "at fault" accident you will find with most or all companies
your premium will go up on top of having to pay an excess. If ACC applied the same thinking there is an incentive to "improve" if you dont want to be paying higher premiums for ever.

Thanks Einstein. After selling motorcycle insurance over the last 30 years I wasn't sure how it all worked. And the next at fault accident I claim on will be my first in 36 years on the road. Retard.

[rastuscat]

Speed causes some crashes. Certainly not a big proportion, but some.

Off all the others, whatever the cause, the faster people are going, the greater the kinetic energy, and the worse the outcome.

Such is the reasoning for speed enforcement.

Absolutely agree work should be done to prevent crashes in the first place, but isnt thst our job? Why expect some government agency to make the change that we as citizens can make. For free.

[awayatc]

I know you can't have any teeth left....

Coz if you blabber like you do on here in real life as well ,
Somebody will smack you in the face .....

That's also how I know you must be a "female"....

Coz no guy could be this annoyingly ignorant and obnoxious AND still be alive....

[Graystone]

Speed causes some crashes. Certainly not a big proportion, but some.

Off all the others, whatever the cause, the faster people are going, the greater the kinetic energy, and the worse the outcome.

Such is the reasoning for speed enforcement.

Absolutely agree work should be done to prevent crashes in the first place, but isnt thst our job? Why expect some government agency to make the change that we as citizens can make. For free.

That's the reason supplied for public consumption, but I suspect the real reason for speed enforcement is simply that it is enforceable.

Imagine if we could instead enforce attention and reaction times, this would drastically reduce both the number of accidents, and the kinetic energy in which they occur. That is the change we as citizens can make for free, however this change is at odds with the level of 'speed kills' message and enforcement currently shown.

[rastuscat]

That's the reason supplied for public consumption, but I suspect the real reason for speed enforcement is simply that it is enforceable.

Imagine if we could instead enforce attention and reaction times, this would drastically reduce both the number of accidents, and the kinetic energy in which they occur. That is the change we as citizens can make for free, however this change is at odds with the level of 'speed kills' message and enforcement currently shown.

An alarmingly sensible, reasoned response.

It would be great to be able to enforce attention and reaction times. Those are strong threads of the answer. Tough to deal with. Road safety researchers internationally would like to solve that one.

Meantime, we complain when something gets enforced, and complain when it doesn't.

One example. We rail against those campaigns where the police take photos of cars, trucks, bikes fail to keep left over curves where the view across is clear. Because, well, if nobody is coming it's not unsafe right?

Then we complain that police are doing nothing but writing speeding tickets. Why dont they do something about people crosding the centre line?

I obviously don't have access to inside information any more, but when I did, speeding tickets were about a third of the total number of tickets written. I cant imagine its changed much.

[AllanB]

Absolutely agree work should be done to prevent crashes in the first place, but isnt thst our job? Why expect some government agency to make the change that we as citizens can make. For free.

Appears to me the modern knee jerk reaction to any public problem nowadays is a expectation that the government should fix it.

Can't have people being responsible for their own actions anymore!

[Graystone]

An alarmingly sensible, reasoned response.

It would be great to be able to enforce attention and reaction times. Those are strong threads of the answer. Tough to deal with. Road safety researchers internationally would like to solve that one.

Meantime, we complain when something gets enforced, and complain when it doesn't.

One example. We rail against those campaigns where the police take photos of cars, trucks, bikes fail to keep left over curves where the view across is clear. Because, well, if nobody is coming it's not unsafe right?

Then we complain that police are doing nothing but writing speeding tickets. Why dont they do something about people crosding the centre line?

I obviously don't have access to inside information any more, but when I did, speeding tickets were about a third of the total number of tickets written. I cant imagine its changed much.

Is that not part of the same thread? We complain when police enforce arbitrary speeding rules despite there being a very low risk to speeding in circumstances we maintain attention/awareness in (straight roads, good visibility and verge control), we complain when police again enforce arbitrary lane rules despite there being a very low risk to crossing the centerline in circumstances we maintain attention/awareness in (like when there is enough visibility to show there clearly nobody coming). These traits put the concept of attention down the importance scale behind maintaining the target speed and lane position; so is it really any wonder attention and awareness are not so well adopted?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Retard yourself.

Ohhh...you got me good there.

[rastuscat]

Packed it in 2.5 years ago. Most days I commute to and from Ruapuna, from Rangiora. About 30 km. Motorway, arterial, local roads. It'd make a good CBTA route actually.

I've seen so few police cars that they don't even factor in how I ride my bike. To be fair, i pretty much stick to the rules anyway, road craft etc.

It's brought me to consider that enforcement means something to those constantly pushing the boundaries, but means bugger all to most of us.

To be fair, the chance if getting caught doing something stupid are fairly slim.

I do the road rules / road craft thing more because I think it's a good idea than because of any fear of enforcement.

[admenk]

Appears to me the modern knee jerk reaction to any public problem nowadays is a expectation that the government should fix it.

Can't have people being responsible for their own actions anymore!

I blame the government :innocent:.......whatever one that turns out to be.....

[Drew]

The only thick cunts are those that believe man can stop it if its happening maybe you are one of them?

You're still struggling with the whole reading thing huh?

[pete376403]

THAT'S for real!

And the dumber they are the more they 'need' to use the phone while driving.
:brick:

Unless you're a cop. Apparently they are immune from the danger that cellphones pose to normal people.

[rastuscat]

Unless you're a cop. Apparently they are immune from the danger that cellphones pose to normal people.

Yes, I never could understand why they wrote that exemption. Seems silly.

Either phones impair driving or they don't. They do.

In fact, I think the MoT missed the point when they drafted that legislation. Phones district just as much whether they are hands free or not.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes, I never could understand why they wrote that exemption. Seems silly.

Either phones impair driving or they don't. They do.

In fact, I think the MoT missed the point when they drafted that legislation. Phones district just as much whether they are hands free or not.

Some studies suggest morso in handsfree mode as the sound isn't direct so often the brain has to spend more time deciphering the conversation as it's competing with ambient sounds & usually of a lower sound quality

[Black Knight]

Must tell you guys this one.Out for a blast yesterday on the famous "back road"
(keeping an eye out for cows,pigs,tourists etc-all the usual stuff that makes the road interesting) looking ahead through a right handed 90 bend, and here are two small rental campervans side by side having a race.I rounded the corner,planned my escape route and waited.The van on my side kept coming and then had the audacity to lean on his horn.He finally realised he was not driving in Europe and hit the brakes hard, by now I was stopped in the gravel verge.Gave me the "oh gee I am terribly sorry sir" usual stuff.Here was a candidate for having his key removed and biffed into the nearest paddock.
The funny thing is that the corner is a true 90 degree,sharp as all hell,maybe I should have stopped before the corner,stood clear, and see which van rolled first.Bloody tourists.

[Racing Dave]

Autobahns are great, no trucks in the fast lane, and only use the fast lane if your going fast or overtaking.
And on lots of them the opposing traffic is some distance away.
I did see some crashes on them....messy.


I agree - I was in Germany a few weeks ago and came across this. The black Merc had run up the back of the white truck, stopped further up the road. ABS? Didn't work this time... 45 mins later, we were on our way.

[Graystone]

Thats why I dont believe in the idea of "riding school taught lines" on bends unless you can see all the way around. Its much safer to ride as close to the edge of the road as you can.

Riding schools do teach lines that maximize vision and maneuvering freedom. IAM (Institue of Advanced Motorists) is especially good in this regard and after reading some of your 'advice' it is clear you should consider taking one of their courses.

[RDJ]

Some studies suggest morso in handsfree mode as the sound isn't direct so often the brain has to spend more time deciphering the conversation as it's competing with ambient sounds & usually of a lower sound quality

This is so. Furthermore, the distraction effect is apparently even more pronounced for some of the newer populace when handsfree because of their need to conjure visual imagery on a smartphone when they cannot see the person (compared to those of us who grew up 'knowing' a telephone was ever only voice-only, and static i.e. in-place, on a wire). This effect is, of course, getting worse over time.

[Graystone]

So is riding in the gravel at the side of the road when you cant see around a bend taught by riding schools? Riding any closer to the centre line will put you in danger as the other poster pointed out. There was a video post on FB a few days back where a guy on a bike would have been killed had he not positiond himself towards the edge of the road on a bend.

Obviously not the gravel, that would vastly reduce the maneuvering freedom. Edge of the road and late apex are taught and recommended for reduced visibility situations. You really should just take the course, instead of making wrong assumptions about what they teach and giving irresponsible advice based on that.

[Murray]

Obviously not the gravel, that would vastly reduce the maneuvering freedom. Edge of the road and late apex are taught and recommended for reduced visibility situations. You really should just take the course, instead of making wrong assumptions about what they teach and giving irresponsible advice based on that.


Your new here - You are wasting your time trying to tell him/her anything.

All rider training gives a false sense of security, all group rides are races, rider training does not help prevent accidents, everyone on a group ride is under pressure to keep up

Some of Cassinas constant bleeting on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

[Ulsterkiwi]

Packed it in 2.5 years ago. Most days I commute to and from Ruapuna, from Rangiora. About 30 km. Motorway, arterial, local roads. It'd make a good CBTA route actually.

I've seen so few police cars that they don't even factor in how I ride my bike. To be fair, i pretty much stick to the rules anyway, road craft etc.

It's brought me to consider that enforcement means something to those constantly pushing the boundaries, but means bugger all to most of us.

To be fair, the chance if getting caught doing something stupid are fairly slim.

I do the road rules / road craft thing more because I think it's a good idea than because of any fear of enforcement.

nice point, well made, one would even think you put some thought into it. :innocent:

Therein lies the problem, folks seem fairly reluctant to accept responsibility for what they can do to keep themselves safer. If we all thought like that things may change.

I am fascinated by the numbers you quote for proportions of tickets for various offences on the road. Caveat, I have only been in NZ 10 years and the range of people I know may influence things but.....I know lots of people (me included) who have been done for speeding, both by officers and cameras. I know someone done for drink driving. I have never ever met or heard someone I know mention someone they know who has been pulled or ticketed for tailgating, using their phone, not wearing a seat belt, unsafe or illegal manoevring, failure to indicate, failure to keep left etc etc etc. Just goes to show I hang out with a really boring crowd, none of them ever does those things while highway patrol officers watch them go by.......:innocent:
I guess the point I am making RC is it does not matter what number the police use, through mismanagement of their communication with the public , perceptions around road policing bear no relationship to what is happening. People, they be simple, send unclear or mixed messages (shifting "tolerance" to speed limits) and they just fill in the blanks and make their own rules up.

[FJRider]

So is riding in the gravel at the side of the road when you cant see around a bend taught by riding schools?

I used to think the only really safe place was in bed. But apparently ... some people die there too ... :(

[Woodman]

It would depend on the road though as I saw another video clip of a rider on a single lane gravel road and he was lucky to avoid a collision on a bend by riding towards the centre of the single lane because it was less gravely than the edge of the road. This is an example of why riding in the gravel at the side of the road is safer however the tradeoff is that the more gravelly the bend is the more likely you are to lose it in the gravel itself as opposed to risking a head on. Everything has its tradeoff and luck plays a part whether you go to riding school or not.

The centre of a single lane gravel road is used by vehicles travelling in both directions you muppet.:facepalm: You cannot use that example for general two way roads. Muppet.:brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick:: brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::b rick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::br ick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::bri ck::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::bric k::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick ::brick::brick::brick::brick::brick:

[Graystone]

It would depend on the road though as I saw another video clip of a rider on a single lane gravel road and he was lucky to avoid a collision on a bend by riding towards the centre of the single lane because it was less gravely than the edge of the road. This is an example of why riding in the gravel at the side of the road is safer however the tradeoff is that the more gravelly the bend is the more likely you are to lose it in the gravel itself as opposed to risking a head on. Everything has its tradeoff and luck plays a part whether you go to riding school or not.

Yeh, nah, yeh, riding on the gravel part of a gravel road is probably ok.

Your video clip sounds like the rider was reliant on luck, instead of riding slower but on his own side of the road to make his own 'luck'.

[Graystone]

Yes he was relying on luck to swerve out of the way in time. In that situation though if he had been riding slower and the car coming the other way was going faster he would still have the same time to get out of the way. Irrespective of speeds on such a road luck plays a big part irrespective of what some riding school supporters on here believe.

Probably shouldn't ride down the middle of the road then, that'd take the big lady luck down a peg.

[RDJ]

Probably shouldn't ride down the middle of the road then, that'd take the big lady luck down a peg.

Yeah, that; the middle of the road is a safe space for music but on a bike, very much not. Personally I've had a modest degree of success over 45 years on a bike sticking left of center (except for the texting chick that got me from behind, but in every life a little rain does fall...)

[Laava]

Some studies suggest morso in handsfree mode as the sound isn't direct so often the brain has to spend more time deciphering the conversation as it's competing with ambient sounds & usually of a lower sound quality

How is handsfree any different to having a conversation with your passenger? With the exception of having to take one hand off the wheel to answer said phone initially. I use mine all the time, mainly cos it is so friggen easy to just push a button on the steering wheel...as opposed to when I used to juggle an actual phone which I agree is a distraction, esp if you are wanting to read or reply to a text. To be honest, the texting thing is prob the worst aspect of the whole cellphone/driving thing. I just dont answer or make them in the car anymore. There is a lady at the end of our road often in the morning with her ph to her ear with one hand and applying makeup with the other, fucken shits me!

[Woodman]

If you read my post again I said it would depend on the road. Some 2 way roads are narrower and windier that others. So I would never rule out doing that on a 2 way road either. Muppet yourself.

But you cited a single lane gravel road then said some 2 way roads are narrower so why even enter a single lane gravel road into the discussion?

[Swoop]

Phones district just as much whether they are hands free or not.
I've noticed a recent increase of "wheel-turners" who are now holding their phone 6" in front of their mouth (normally being held horizontally:scratch:). I can only presume they believe that they are using it in "hands free mode"
Or, perhaps it is the current fashion to hold it this way, instead of up against the ear...



... after reading some of your 'advice' it is clear you should consider taking one of their courses.
We would like to see her do exactly that, but denial of "needing" any form of observation (apart from a mental health professional) will be refused by the retarded cunt.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeh, nah, yeh, riding on the gravel part of a gravel road is probably ok.

Your video clip sounds like the rider was reliant on luck, instead of riding slower but on his own side of the road to make his own 'luck'.

wait, whut? have you never ridden on a gravel road? (hint - ride in the wheeltracks not the loose shit in the middle - its surprising how fast you can go on a CB750....)

[Graystone]

wait, whut? have you never ridden on a gravel road? (hint - ride in the wheeltracks not the loose shit in the middle - its surprising how fast you can go on a CB750....)

I'm confused, why would you think I have not ridden on gravel? It's good fun, nothing like spinning up the rear at a hundy to enhance that attention and awareness!

[rastuscat]

I went on a fund raising ride today. Some thoughts from that.

The Police aren't accountable for the shocking riding I witnessed, and it confirmed for me why I don't do group rides.

Speed wasn't the issue. Shocking cornering lines, lack of awareness and grossly abused following distances will see me further avoiding group rides.

[rastuscat]

And for the record. Celebrate the current road toll.

After today I wonder why it's not four times what it is.

[eldog]

I went on a fund raising ride today. Some thoughts from that.

The Police aren't accountable for the shocking riding I witnessed, and it confirmed for me why I don't do group rides.

Speed wasn't the issue. Shocking cornering lines, lack of awareness and grossly abused following distances will see me further avoiding group rides.

Ride at the back, enjoy the view and the ride.

yep watching otherroad users can be really eye opening:eek:
not just motor bike riders


even I made a big mistake the last ride. But it was a good wake up call.
kicked myself for the rest of the ride.

talking about group rides, I did one last weekend, heaps of us, I didn't see any poor drive/riding, which surprised me.
probably because it was mostly wet, those aucklanders/city slickers stayed at home?

[Drew]

I wanna argue the bike position thong.

The right hand tyre track of your lane is the safest place to be. Period.

It offers the largest range of escape for any situation. There simply isn't a spot you are most likely to miss something unexpected.

[Scuba_Steve]

How is handsfree any different to having a conversation with your passenger? With the exception of having to take one hand off the wheel to answer said phone initially. I use mine all the time, mainly cos it is so friggen easy to just push a button on the steering wheel...as opposed to when I used to juggle an actual phone which I agree is a distraction, esp if you are wanting to read or reply to a text. To be honest, the texting thing is prob the worst aspect of the whole cellphone/driving thing. I just dont answer or make them in the car anymore. There is a lady at the end of our road often in the morning with her ph to her ear with one hand and applying makeup with the other, fucken shits me!

It's massively different for one the person in the car can see what's going on & shut up/react to the situations allowing you attention to road when needed (kids an exception to this)
Then there's also the lower sound quality the brain spends more time deciphering etc & how talking to someone in person always takes less CPU power than talking on a phone

There's a few studies into this go search some out but general gist is talking talking remotely is more dangerous than locally & some go as far as to find handsfree more dangerous than physically holding a phone (when used with the automagic kind of vehicle)

[Taxythingy]

How is handsfree any different to having a conversation with your passenger?

Having used handsfree a little bit and talked to passengers a lot, I find that the passenger is also looking at the road, knows when to shut up and understands when I stop talking mid-sentence. A person on the other end of the phone doesn't get the visual cues.

Bottom line: I find handsfree to be very distracting but passengers less so. YMMV.

Edit: Ninja'd. Wot he said.

[rastuscat]

Anyone else on here honest enough to admit driving past a destination due to being on the legally used Bluetooth hands free phone?

It's worse than R/Ts too. I'm not sure why. But it's worse by far.

[Scuba_Steve]

I went on a fund raising ride today. Some thoughts from that.

The Police aren't accountable for the shocking riding I witnessed, and it confirmed for me why I don't do group rides.

Speed wasn't the issue. Shocking cornering lines, lack of awareness and grossly abused following distances will see me further avoiding group rides.

You could blame the police in that they don't police bad driving & only police speeding* so the problem is left to compound... Fuck just look at comments on "who has to give way" posts to see why the roads are so fucked

[AllanB]

The quickest way to end up dead if you believe that especially on a bend. I saw a FB video recently when a guy would have ended up dead if he had not been to the far left of the centre line.

I saw a video of two attractive 25 year old Swedish girls kissing each other then inviting a older man to enjoy a evening of passion with them.

Highly unlikely my life will follow that path though.


You need to get out more.

[FJRider]

I saw a video of two attractive 25 year old Swedish girls kissing each other then inviting a older man to enjoy a evening of passion with them.

Highly unlikely my life will follow that path though.

You wouldn't age much if your wife found out either ... :devil2:

[caspernz]

Anyone else on here honest enough to admit driving past a destination due to being on the legally used Bluetooth hands free phone?

It's worse than R/Ts too. I'm not sure why. But it's worse by far.

Maybe...:killingme:innocent:...it was a long time ago, now I simply don't use phone at all when rolling along.

Hands free or not makes no difference, the brain is distracted from driving task.

RT and CB not as bad, but can still be distracting.

Maybe women do better, with their mythical multi tasking ability :devil2:

[veldthui]

They need to actually look at the road condition as well. Just done the NI1600 and the State Highways are in shocking condition. We had rain most of the time and the tar bleed is pathetic and we are still in winter conditions. Their idea of fixing the road is to put a stupid bloody sign that says "slippery when wet".

Get the roads up to a decent standard and maybe 50% of road accidents wouldn't happen.

[eldog]

You could blame the police in that they don't police bad driving & only police speeding* so the problem is left to compound... Fuck just look at comments on "who has to give way" posts to see why the roads are so fucked

Recently I have noticed the number of red light and stop sign runners has increased a lot. Committed usually by vans, completely blacked out windowed cars, and SUVs. They don't even slow down. They are such good drivers.....

[eldog]

I wanna argue the bike position thong.

The right hand tyre track of your lane is the safest place to be. Period.

It offers the largest range of escape for any situation. There simply isn't a spot you are most likely to miss something unexpected.

Cant argue with that, but there are exceptions to every rule if you want to remain safe on the road.

[eldog]

They need to actually look at the road condition as well. Just done the NI1600 and the State Highways are in shocking condition. We had rain most of the time and the tar bleed is pathetic and we are still in winter conditions. Their idea of fixing the road is to put a stupid bloody sign that says "slippery when wet".

Get the roads up to a decent standard and maybe 50% of road accidents wouldn't happen.

I had a conversation with a law enforcement office along time ago.
they enforce the law.
they can't/won't/don't have anything to do with road design/condition etc.

he agreed with me, that there needed to changes, but that was outside his job description.
he policed a dangerous intersection. Just wrote tickets. Wasn't concerned that changes could be made.

if i wanted to I could make a public suggestion to the local council.
yeah right that will be effective.

yes there were parts of the road where the bike slithered like a snake underneath me, wasn't a nice feeling. I did the 800, that was enough of sliding around in the wet and fog.

definitely we need to change the way roads are design/repaired there were NEW portions on that ride that had almost no grip, the water/oil pooled on the surface. others were just wrong surface material. Tar snakes usually indicate larger problems under the surface.

[eldog]

You wouldn't age much if your wife found out either ... :devil2:

You just never know.

i have heard of a lucky chap who had such a successful relationship as described.

[rastuscat]

Education.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Engineering.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Enforcement.
The responsibility of NZTA.
Subcontracted to Police.

[Scuba_Steve]

Education.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Engineering.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Enforcement.
The responsibility of NZTA.
Subcontracted to Police.

NZTA - "We have no idea what we're doing"

[AllanB]

Education.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Engineering.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Enforcement.
The responsibility of NZTA.
Subcontracted to Police.


And they will blame lack of funding, and that's the government, who are funded by the tax payer, thus we are all responsible!

It's a fantastic system - I need to find a job where everyone but me is responsible for my actions :-)

[Ocean1]

I wanna argue the bike position thong.

The right hand tyre track of your lane is the safest place to be. Period.

It offers the largest range of escape for any situation. There simply isn't a spot you are most likely to miss something unexpected.

Nope. The safest place to be is the one balancing a lot of potential sources of injury for a lot of different situations, and there isn't a simple rule that defines that for every situation.

[FJRider]

... Get the roads up to a decent standard and maybe 50% of road accidents wouldn't happen.

Improve the driving standards ... and 98% of the accidents wouldn't happen.

[jellywrestler]

The quickest way to end up dead if you believe that especially on a bend. I saw a FB video recently when a guy would have ended up dead if he had not been to the far left of the centre line.

were you shaken as a baby? it would explain a lot

[jellywrestler]

I saw a video of two attractive 25 year old Swedish girls kissing each other

can you please post a link

[caspernz]

They need to actually look at the road condition as well. Just done the NI1600 and the State Highways are in shocking condition. We had rain most of the time and the tar bleed is pathetic and we are still in winter conditions. Their idea of fixing the road is to put a stupid bloody sign that says "slippery when wet".

Get the roads up to a decent standard and maybe 50% of road accidents wouldn't happen.

Can't argue that some accidents can be largely attributed to roading standards, will take issue with the % you quoted though. Someone who applies the old "riding to the conditions" approach will do much better your numbers suggest. Add a bit of advanced rider training and the 50% you say are caused by the road, will now be in the low single digits, IMHO.


I wanna argue the bike position thong.

The right hand tyre track of your lane is the safest place to be. Period.

It offers the largest range of escape for any situation. There simply isn't a spot you are most likely to miss something unexpected.

Don't often disagree with you Drew, but hey you're just wrong on this occasion. You apply a rigid thinking approach, use Roadcraft and you'll be varying position to be as safe as practicable for the conditions.


Education.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Engineering.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Enforcement.
The responsibility of NZTA.
Subcontracted to Police.

The limiting factor being money, although the couch consultants will argue all officialdom is dumb, without ever improving their own skills/attitude.


Improve the driving standards ... and 98% of the accidents wouldn't happen.

Oh you're a wise one, and I can't argue with your assertion.


The way I look at things from the cab of a truck, I see lots of people tailgating, talking on cell phones, texting, dawdling in places where one can easily do the limit, cross centre lines needlessly, overtake in a dangerous fashion, drive in poor vision conditions without lights, to name but a few...that speed in and of itself isn't an issue, but I accept it's what the boys in blue can easily measure :eek5:

[eldog]

Improve the driving standards ... and 98% of the accidents wouldn't happen.

While I agree about improving driving standards, improvements in vehicles, tyres would also help. As well as attitudes on the road.

this would reduce accidents, but 98% ?

you must have much better roads and drivers down in your neck of the boonies

there's no accounting for dumb, you should visit akl..... bring plenty of cotton wool.

[eldog]

If possible I just dont ride in the wet now and take the car. This means the lack of money to repair the roads no longer is an issue. It all comes down to money over safety in roading budgets in the end.

What? It doesn't cost anything when you use your car?

cars don't crash? People don't die in cars?

ok I will take the car on my next ride.... it will be safer and cost less.....:wacko:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Nope. The safest place to be is the one balancing a lot of potential sources of injury for a lot of different situations, and there isn't a simple rule that defines that for every situation.

Yeah: I mean I'm with Drew: usually its the best place, but sometimes its not. Thats part of the fun innit: being active: head up, scanning, situational awareness.

[george formby]

I would agree with you as people who blame the roads jus need to buy a vehicle or learn to handle them better

Fair dinkum question. What learning process did you have in mind?

[FJRider]

While I agree about improving driving standards, improvements in vehicles, tyres would also help. As well as attitudes on the road.

this would reduce accidents, but 98% ?

you must have much better roads and drivers down in your neck of the boonies

there's no accounting for dumb, you should visit akl..... bring plenty of cotton wool.

A drivers attitude has a lot to do with their ability to drive safely. 98% of "Accidents" are caused by the mistakes of drivers. Mistakes (however minor) of all drivers involved ... have an impact (excuse the pun) on how serious the end result will be. A mistake of following too closely may involve you in what could/should have been a non-issue for you.

We have our share of shit roads ... I've traveled most on a motorcycle and most of my prangs were of my making. Better drivers ... ?? I doubt it. I've found it easier and safer to back off ... and allow ROW to those that are not entitled to ... or deserve any.

Dumb is believing if a speed sign tells you you can ... you MUST. And ... MUST be perfectly safe in ALL road, traffic and weather conditions ...

We should be all familiar with the attributes and failings of our own vehicles we operate ... so we should be making allowances for the failings. And use the attributes to our advantage ... to ensure our safety. Not to increase the risk.

And I have been to Auckland ... and I doubt anything has improved ... the drivers or the traffic.

[FJRider]

Fair dinkum question. What learning process did you have in mind?

Rider/Driver training .. ?? <_<

[Ifsn8u]

I have ony read a couple of posts. But how about this idea.

If you crash and you are at fault. (Cause damage to property or person, another vehicle.) You can only get your licence back once you do a defensive driving course and re-sit your licence. Obviously crash causing death might not work in this instance.

Maybe that might make people focus on the job at hand rather than their phone or whatever.

[Akzle]

I have ony read a couple of posts. But how about this idea.

If you crash and you are at fault. (Cause damage to property or person, another vehicle.) You can only get your licence back once you do a defensive driving course and re-sit your licence. Obviously crash causing death might not work in this instance.

Maybe that might make people focus on the job at hand rather than their phone or whatever.

better idea:

if you crash and don't kill yourself, you get shot in the face.

vote akzle.

[awayatc]

Anyone else on here honest enough to admit driving past a destination due to being on the legally used Bluetooth hands free phone?

It's worse than R/Ts too. I'm not sure why. But it's worse by far.

Got no blue tooth...or any other tooth for that matter.
Nor have I got the need for a phone for work...
Nor do I have friends....
So I only use phone when I need something or somebody.
Won't do that when I'm driving...
Or riding...

[george formby]

With reference to cost I mean the primary reason why many roads are not maintained as well as they should be. If you think about it we will all be paying more in the way of rates/registration/or/taxes to see an across the country upgraded roading standard or is it best left the way it is and we learn to handle the conditions while enjoying paying lower rates and taxes etc

Works for me.:niceone:

[Drew]

Strangly enough most on here dont want greater penalties for those at fault most likely due to a fear of being at fault in the future themselves.

You really need to work on those reading and comprehension skills.

[eldog]

With reference to cost I mean the primary reason why many roads are not maintained as well as they should be. If you think about it we will all be paying more in the way of rates/registration/or/taxes to see an across the country upgraded roading standard or is it best left the way it is and we learn to handle the conditions while enjoying paying lower rates and taxes etc?

Strangely enough we were paying a lot more for ACC on registration a few years back for cars. Could have kept the same rate we could have better roads.

but a lot more spent on crap short cut fixes with health and safety, hand holding etc rather than doing a proper job once.

oh well....

[eldog]

Strangly enough most on here dont want greater penalties for those at fault most likely due to a fear of being at fault in the future themselves.

Strangely enough one poster on here doesn't think death is too high a price some people pay.

innocent or guilty, are some who die through accidents on our roads

[eldog]

A drivers attitude has a lot to do with their ability to drive safely. 98% of "Accidents" are caused by the mistakes of drivers. Mistakes (however minor) of all drivers involved ... have an impact (excuse the pun) on how serious the end result will be. A mistake of following too closely may involve you in what could/should have been a non-issue for you.

We have our share of shit roads ... I've traveled most on a motorcycle and most of my prangs were of my making. Better drivers ... ?? I doubt it. I've found it easier and safer to back off ... and allow ROW to those that are not entitled to ... or deserve any.

Dumb is believing if a speed sign tells you you can ... you MUST. And ... MUST be perfectly safe in ALL road, traffic and weather conditions ...

We should be all familiar with the attributes and failings of our own vehicles we operate ... so we should be making allowances for the failings. And use the attributes to our advantage ... to ensure our safety. Not to increase the risk.

And I have been to Auckland ... and I doubt anything has improved ... the drivers or the traffic.

while I agree with a lot you have said.

i have just returned from the supermarket, one only needs to watch how people interact there to see how accidents happen, without signs.

[george formby]

Strangly enough most on here dont want greater penalties for those at fault most likely due to a fear of being at fault in the future themselves.

That's a bit disingenuous.

It would be a tiny minority of people who consciously head out onto the road intending to be a wanker. Increasing penalties will not curtail bad judgement or bad driving. The anti speed campaign and ever increasing road toll kinda proves this.

That tiny minority do not give a shit about rego, wof, insurance or license either. The 15 year old kid who kamikazied recently kinda indicates the mind set.

[george formby]

while I agree with a lot you have said.

i have just returned from the supermarket, one only needs to watch how people interact there to see how accidents happen, without signs.

:shit: Oh yes, the petri dish of driving humanity. It's terrifying!

[Murray]

There was a video post on FB a few days back where a guy on a bike would have been killed had he not positiond himself towards the edge of the road on a bend.


There was a video pasted on FB of a fundraising ride for St John from ChCh to Akaroa some time back and they even had a safety marshall briefing before the ride left which was completely ignored by a number of riders.


I saw a FB video recently when a guy would have ended up dead if he had not been to the far left of the centre line.


Recently it was stated it would be 30 years before all roads are returned to pre earthquake conditions.


Riding schools from what I have read on here are all into teaching avoidance of certain dangers but you really have to look beyond what they teach and maybe ignore some of it.


I have read on other sites that factors like the fast pace of life a lot of people live and the pressure they are under in life are factors too. It has been said in the media that many of the truck crashes on the alternate SH1 north of Waipara are due to work pressure.


Hey dickhead instead of I saw, I read, I heard, it was stated, it has been said etc how about linking it, cause you are so dangerous it is not funny!!!!

[FJRider]

while I agree with a lot you have said.

i have just returned from the supermarket, one only needs to watch how people interact there to see how accidents happen, without signs.

Such is life today ... Unless there is a sign specifically telling you it is not allowed ... most then assume then that it IS.

[AllanB]

changing bikes to better suit the road surfaces (post earthquake in ChCh) I mostly ride on.

You changed to a 1982 CB750 Honda?

Enlighten us - is this the 'earthquake' motorcycle?

[pritch]

Strangly enough most on here dont want greater penalties for those at fault most likely due to a fear of being at fault in the future themselves.

On the contrary most on here want to improve their riding skills in an effort to avoid being involved in an accident, whoever is at fault it still hurts, many take courses that could help with this.
The only KBer who seems determined to remain ignorant is yourself.

[eldog]

Such is life today ... Unless there is a sign specifically telling you it is not allowed ... most then assume then that it IS.

You have assumed

- they can read
- they saw the the sign
- they give a toss.
- they can understand the sign
- are not in a SUV
- in dreamworld
- on a mission from one god or another
- testing out whether their dick is the biggest

[eldog]

You changed to a 1982 CB750 Honda?

Enlighten us - is this the 'earthquake' motorcycle?

A freak a twin?

[Woodman]

You can do all the couses you like but if someone else is at fault all the courses you have done mean jack shit. Many on here are yet to grasp that fact as they have only come to grief as a result of their own and not the errors of others.

Everyone grasps that fact. The only non grasping involved is you who cannot grasp the fact that everyone grasps it. It is as simple as that.

[rastuscat]

A whole bunch of Guinness makes me realise you're all a pack of plonkers.

[Ifsn8u]

Strangly enough most on here dont want greater penalties for those at fault most likely due to a fear of being at fault in the future themselves.

No shit, That's the point.

[eldog]

A whole bunch of Guinness makes me realise you're all a pack of plonkers.

A little old wine drinker me......

and a Guinness drinker tooo

the real stuff not this imported crap

[Woodman]

Apart from myself there are very few that have admitted on here they have come to grief as a result of someone elses fault. So your beiief that everyone grasps that fact is wrong. If they had grasped that fact they would not attack me the way they do now would they? It was only on here about a week ago a "brighter" poster than many others on here picked that it was odd that another poster who admitted to having a crash as a result of someone elses fault got a lot of sympathy but no attacks for not having awareness like they claim I don't.

Fuck you are thick. Everyone on here understands that they could get wiped out even if they have done training.:brick::brick:

[Murray]

Do a google search you lazy dickhead yourself.


Hey dickhead instead of I saw, I read, I heard, it was stated, it has been said etc how about linking it, cause you are so dangerous it is not funny!!!!

"video post on FB a few days back where a guy on a bike would have been killed had he not positiond himself towards the edge of the road"

Metro nah doesnt look like it Polito involved sorry no link as per you comment I can find?

"video pasted on FB of a fundraising ride for St John from ChCh to Akaroa"

Nope St John and Akaroa ride dont come up

"FB video recently when a guy would have ended up dead if he had not been to the far left of the centre line."

When Your Child Is a Psychopath - The Atlantic is firsty listed (is it you>) nope cant find your "I saw"

"stated it would be 30 years before all roads are returned to pre earthquake conditions."

Feb 2014 states 30 years
Apr 16 states 20 years

"Riding schools from what I have read on here are all into teaching avoidance of certain dangers but you really have to look beyond what they teach and maybe ignore some of it."

cant find on google

"many of the truck crashes on the alternate SH1 north of Waipara are due to work pressure."

* Truck driver David Cooze says time pressure an industry-wide problem post-quake ...

Time pressure NOT work pressure

If you going to I saw, I read, I heard, it was stated, it has been said etc GET IT RIGHT KNOBHEAD

And show it - Heresay is NOT a legal arguement

[rastuscat]

Fuck you are thick. Everyone on here understands that they could get wiped out even if they have done training.:brick::brick:

No guarantees. When I run courses I always talk about reducing crashes. Not eliminating them.

[nzspokes]

Apart from myself there are very few that have admitted on here they have come to grief as a result of someone elses fault. So your beiief that everyone grasps that fact is wrong. If they had grasped that fact they would not attack me the way they do now would they? It was only on here about a week ago a "brighter" poster than many others on here picked that it was odd that another poster who admitted to having a crash as a result of someone elses fault got a lot of sympathy but no attacks for not having awareness like they claim I don't.

When I was a teenager, I had a head on with a girl that got very confused at an intersection. It was her fault.

If I observed then like i do now, Im confident I could have lessened the damage or avoided it.

[Taxythingy]

A whole bunch of Guinness makes me realise you're all a pack of plonkers.

So a good Sunday, then?

[RDJ]

So a good Sunday, then?

Well we're still alive, still upright, and still riding. So yeah, a good Sunday!

:scooter: :yes: :scooter: :yes:

[Berries]

When I was a teenager, I had a head on with a girl that got very confused at an intersection.
Me too, although it was at a bus stop.


Hey dickhead instead of I saw, I read, I heard, it was stated, it has been said etc how about linking it, cause you are so dangerous it is not funny!!!!
It is all sweet now because that Rastus bloke once agreed thereby proving the point.

Or it could just have been the Guinness.

[Woodman]

There are some on here who believe that riding school has taught them to be bullet proof though even in situations where others screw up.

No there are not. You are making shit up.

[Akzle]

Hey dickhead instead of I saw, I read, I heard, it was stated, it has been said etc how about linking it, cause you are so dangerous it is not funny!!!!

https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Some_argue

[MD]

Good to see I kicked off some debate. Of course when too may join in it turns into a mass-debate session.

I see some blame the quality of our roads, even NZTA (E= engineering) but personally that's all part of the common sense approach DRIVE TO THE CONDITIONS. I think our roads are pretty good for a rugged landscape and a small population to fund our infrastructure.

I rode Wgtn to Greymouth on Thursday and back Friday via Nelson. Sometimes it was wet. Sometimes the road was crumbling, lose stones, slips, debris etc. You survive by being aware of your surroundings and riding to the conditions.

The Blenheim-St Arnaud- Murchison route is stuffed beyond recognition thanks to the thousands of overweight trucks forced to use it after the earthquake. It's off the menu for many years for me.

I rode through the town centre of Blenheim which reinforced my opening post that Police MUST focus on piss poor driving habits. It must be some magnetic core problem or atmospheric phenomenon that indicators do not function in Marlborough and drivers have no bloody idea how to navigate at round-a-bouts. But strangely cell phones still seemed to function while driving. None of these observations I made within minutes are hard for the Police to spot.

[eldog]

Riding school can only seriously teach you how to avoid coming to grief as a result of your own actions and not the actions of others.

Unfortunately YOU are not qualified to make a ststement such as this.

Simply not true.

[eldog]

Good to see I kicked off some debate. Of course when too may join in it turns into a mass-debate session.

I see some blame the quality of our roads, even NZTA (E= engineering) but personally that's all part of the common sense approach DRIVE TO THE CONDITIONS. I think our roads are pretty good for a rugged landscape and a small population to fund our infrastructure.

I rode Wgtn to Greymouth on Thursday and back Friday via Nelson. Sometimes it was wet. Sometimes the road was crumbling, lose stones, slips, debris etc. You survive by being aware of your surroundings and riding to the conditions.

The Blenheim-St Arnaud- Murchison route is stuffed beyond recognition thanks to the thousands of overweight trucks forced to use it after the earthquake. It's off the menu for many years for me.

I rode through the town centre of Blenheim which reinforced my opening post that Police MUST focus on piss poor driving habits. It must be some magnetic core problem or atmospheric phenomenon that indicators do not function in Marlborough and drivers have no bloody idea how to navigate at round-a-bouts. But strangely cell phones still seemed to function while driving. None of these observations I made within minutes are hard for the Police to spot.

I imagine it's hard to enforce.
And wet bus ticket punishment would cause a backlash.

We need another method to improve driving habits.

And the gubbermint needs to try another avenue regarding road skills

Not just speeding because it easier to measure and enforce.

[Whynot]

I saw a video of two attractive 25 year old Swedish girls kissing each other

I think I saw one like that too, what a coincidence!

[FJRider]

There are some on here who believe that riding school has taught them to be bullet proof though even in situations where others screw up. Riding school can only seriously teach you how to avoid coming to grief as a result of your own actions and not the actions of others.

That IS Bullshit. ANYBODY that has done any of the riding courses ... offered by ANY of the riding schools ... realize very quickly how little they actually know.

Riding schools (and past students of) will not claim future avoidance of ALL accidents ... but a reduction in the severity of those they are involved in. Some possible accidents and incidents can be (and are) avoided by simple observational skills. Skills not so much taught ... but explained in simple terms so even the stupid can understand and remember.

Your own ingrained habits and beliefs are more difficult to change or relearn ... than the ability to notice warning signs (given by some motorists) about their (possible) intentions ...

Thought for the day ... Don't live and learn, but learn and live. Your life is in your hands. And quite frankly ... you seem like you need all the help you can get.

[Scuba_Steve]

I imagine it's hard to enforce.
And wet bus ticket punishment would cause a backlash.

We need another method to improve driving habits.

And the gubbermint needs to try another avenue regarding road skills

Not just speeding because it easier to measure and enforce.

Put me in-charge of the roads. Licences would only be granted to people that can drive not just cause you have some money & showed up on the day, the 10yr ID renewal would become a 10yr licence renewal, Tourists would have to sit a licence test before being allowed on the roads & would be issued a temp licence upon a pass

Admittedly due to the amount of people failing to obtain a licence under my system we'd probably have to be a little further on with the self drive car thing or have a better public transport system to avoid mass backlash as people find out they're pathetic at driving & can't obtain or keep a licence but hey at-least we'd have safer roads.

[Woodman]

You have never read any of the posts on here attacking me for being the only person on here to not be able to avoid the screw ups
of others then?


Okay, quote them for us then.

Also quote anyone who has said they won't get in an accident because they have been to training.

[eldog]

No a much simpler system would be to jack up all fines as many are not high enough to motivate people to want to change their ways
or just put up ACC premiums for those with a history of being at fault.

Not just at fault. Everyone gets an increase.
Those who don't pay.....

[eldog]

Sorry to hang you in indefinite suspense but I dont have the time to waste to look back over them. There has been many not just in this thread. I even had a guy who I think was an IAMs instructor that said all accidents that were the fault of others were avoidable. If you think about it though if it was possible there would be no accidents at all.


You do an awful job of thinking and assuming.
Your like that ant killer Neverwrong

Must be trying, to have to educate us mere mortals

[eldog]

Sorry to hang you in indefinite suspense but I dont have the time to waste to look back over them. There has been many not just in this thread. I even had a guy who I think was an IAMs instructor that said all accidents that were the fault of others were avoidable. If you think about it though if it was possible there would be no accidents at all.

Unable to quote.
Unable to provide evidence.
Unable to keep to OP thread.
Unable to accept that there maybe other sides to events.

Unable to help.

[James Deuce]

Fuck you are thick. Everyone on here understands that they could get wiped out even if they have done training.:brick::brick:
And sometimes do. Though I do like to think that a sheep jumping off a bank into my chest and a drunk with no lights running me over at the exact moment I passed the end of a street are extreme outliers in terms of avoidable accidents.

[Woodman]

Sorry to hang you in indefinite suspense but I dont have the time to waste to look back over them. There has been many not just in this thread. I even had a guy who I think was an IAMs instructor that said all accidents that were the fault of others were avoidable. If you think about it though if it was possible there would be no accidents at all.

The statements don't exist do they?

This is getting rather sad...

[Voltaire]

Education.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Engineering.
The responsibility of NZTA.

Enforcement.
The responsibility of NZTA.
Subcontracted to Police.

easy to remember Mission Statements....

Is that a reflection on the level of intelligence you need to work for NZTA?

It would be like Air New Zealand employing Engineers based on Righty Tighty lefty Loosey.

[Murray]

There are some on here who believe that riding school has taught them to be bullet proof

Please show where someone has said this!!!!!!

[Murray]

Sorry to hang you in indefinite suspense but I dont have the time to waste to look back over them. There has been many not just in this thread.

Well show us where just in this thread as you have alluded too.

[Murray]

Sorry to hang you in indefinite suspense but I dont have the time to waste to look back over them. There has been many not just in this thread.

Well show us where just in this thread as you have alluded too.

[Grumph]

No a much simpler system would be to jack up all fines as many are not high enough to motivate people to want to change their ways

What crap. I came across a guy a couple of years back who happily admitted to over $27,000 of outstanding traffic fines.
He was still driving despite being disqualified - and paying the fines at around $10 per week...
Once the total becomes more than you can ever pay, there is absolutely no incentive to stop doing what you're doing....
Sooner or later you'll get a period of lockup - and the debts will be cancelled.




And sometimes do. Though I do like to think that a sheep jumping off a bank into my chest and a drunk with no lights running me over at the exact moment I passed the end of a street are extreme outliers in terms of avoidable accidents.

I suspect you suffer from a bad case of personal magnetism, you have my admiration. I'll try and resist the pull....

[pete376403]

Waterview tunnel speed camera fines are nearly $1million in six weeks. Police Bullshit person Steve Greally says this shows people are going too fast. But they cant be going too fast or they would have been crashing at a horrendous rate - there's no horror stories on Stuff so I guess they haven't been happening.

[Scuba_Steve]

Waterview tunnel speed camera fines are nearly $1million in six weeks. Police Bullshit person Steve Greally says this shows people are going too fast. But they cant be going too fast or they would have been crashing at a horrendous rate - there's no horror stories on Stuff so I guess they haven't been happening.

I'm not saying it's about the money but...
332938

[MD]

I rode through the town centre of Blenheim which reinforced my opening post that Police MUST focus on piss poor driving habits. It must be some magnetic core problem or atmospheric phenomenon that indicators do not function in Marlborough and drivers have no bloody idea how to navigate at round-a-bouts. But strangely cell phones still seemed to function while driving. None of these observations I made within minutes are hard for the Police to spot.

I want to repeat my last point earlier as this is what I take issue with.
Lets debunk the myth that speed can be detected and therefore that's what Police should [and do] focus on. Rubbish! If Joe Public can see these other offences occurring in front of us everyday, just by using plain old eyesight (no hi-tech expensive equipment required), then the argument that Police have no means of detecting and enforcing piss poor driving is nonsense.

I was sitting at a traffic light a year ago with a major Police station right on the corner. Three drivers went through the busy intersection holding phones to their dipshit faces yapping away knowing they were immune. Right in front of a Police station. I was so fucked off I pulled over and went in to the station to complain. Three dangerous drivers within seconds of each other a few metres from their front desk. Why were they ignoring it I asked. You have windows onto the intersection I said- look right out there, I pointed to help him understand where the intersection was. Opposite the station on the same corner is a Primary school. Lots of kiddies waiting to be struck down by some dickhead distracted with their more important text or tweet.
Yeah we know it's a problem was the reply. I said that doesn't explain why not one of the many officers in this building is doing anything about it? He said he'd pass my comments on to the team. I should have said the three were doing 59kph in the 50 zone and they would have sent out a 20 man SWAT team instantly.
Seriously maybe I should sit on the corner for 3 to 4 minutes and take some pics as evidence and shame them into action.

[gsxr]

What crap. I came across a guy a couple of years back who happily admitted to over $27,000 of outstanding traffic fines.
He was still driving despite being disqualified - and paying the fines at around $10 per week...
Once the total becomes more than you can ever pay, there is absolutely no incentive to stop doing what you're doing....
Sooner or later you'll get a period of lockup - and the debts will be cancelled.


I recently employed within the last month a guy on a casual basis.When I asked him to work a Saturday morning he declared he couldnt as he had PD. He had amassed close to $5000.00 of fines for various traffic offences including speeding . He was sentenced to 100 hours pd and fines were wiped. Not a bad hourly rate net.

[roogazza]

I recently employed within the last month a guy on a casual basis.When I asked him to work a Saturday morning he declared he couldnt as he had PD. He had amassed close to $5000.00 of fines for various traffic offences including speeding . He was sentenced to 100 hours pd and fines were wiped. Not a bad hourly rate net.

and I'll bet that the PD consists of Coffee Groups ?
(I've never done PD ,do they have to pick up rubbish, like at school ?) :rolleyes:

[Laava]

and I'll bet that the PD consists of Coffee Groups ?
(I've never done PD ,do they have to pick up rubbish, like at school ?) :rolleyes:

If you have basic skills and can negotiate, you can get the pd changed to community service. This means you can do the same hours, possibly at a better time to suit yourself, and do a job that helps the time go by and where you will be appreciated. Such as at a kindy or school or maybe council.

[jellywrestler]

I want to repeat my last point earlier as this is what I take issue with.
Lets debunk the myth that speed can be detected and therefore that's what Police should [and do] focus on. Rubbish! If Joe Public can see these other offences occurring in front of us everyday, just by using plain old eyesight (no hi-tech expensive equipment required), then the argument that Police have no means of detecting and enforcing piss poor driving is nonsense.

.
fact is they charge someone with an offence then have to spend time in court watching the lawyers pick holes in them, reducing the charge, or getting it thrown out, when they'd rather be on the road. it's easy to click the button and send the paperwork off and keep on doing that with a speed machine.


cops should have cameras in their cars, pull people over, ticket them and let the courts view the evidence and get on with it

[Akzle]

fact is they charge someone with an offence then have to spend time in court watching the lawyers pick holes in them, reducing the charge, or getting it thrown out, when they'd rather be on the road. it's easy to click the button and send the paperwork off and keep on doing that with a speed machine.


cops should have cameras in their cars, pull people over, ticket them and let the courts view the evidence and get on with it

you realise how far behind the courts are at the moment, eh?

not to mention that's a very jewspensive way of going about shit. what, with all the jews involved.

if everyone argued their traffic infringement notices the jews would come to a grinding halt.

[roogazza]

If you have basic skills and can negotiate, you can get the pd changed to community service. This means you can do the same hours, possibly at a better time to suit yourself, and do a job that helps the time go by and where you will be appreciated. Such as at a kindy or school or maybe council.

As usual I was taking the piss ! But cheers for that info.
I'm long retired but worked at the other end of the scale,catching the baddies ! lol

[Akzle]

and I'll bet that the PD consists of Coffee Groups ?
(I've never done PD ,do they have to pick up rubbish, like at school ?) :rolleyes:

it's a "waste of time" - as in, it wastes the crims time. which evidently the jews value more than the crims.Much like prison.

there's no "punishment" as such. it's not hard labour.

ahh, the system at work.


meanwhile recidivism in sweden...


vote akzle.

[scumdog]

I'm not saying it's about the money but...
332938


Hahah, who cares - they get nothing from me!:laugh::bleh:

[scumdog]

you realise how far behind the courts are at the moment, eh?

not to mention that's a very jewspensive way of going about shit. what, with all the jews involved.

if everyone argued their traffic infringement notices the jews would come to a grinding halt.


And all the working ones would lose a days pay sitting in court awaiting their chance to tell their "story".

And some would have to drive/ride 120km to do that.


And the jews would laugh...

[scumdog]

Lets debunk the myth that speed can be detected and therefore that's what Police should [and do] focus on. Rubbish! If Joe Public can see these other offences occurring in front of us everyday, just by using plain old eyesight (no hi-tech expensive equipment required), then the argument that Police have no means of detecting and enforcing piss poor driving is nonsense.

.

Yes, people constantly drive poorly when marked cop cars are nearby..

I say cops should wear plain clothes and drive 1998 Corollas to catch the poor drivers unawares,,

(Then the Idolidleidylls of KB will scream 'entrapment'):msn-wink:

[scumdog]

What crap. I came across a guy a couple of years back who happily admitted to over $27,000 of outstanding traffic fines.
He was still driving despite being disqualified....


He must be lucky not to be stopped by the rozzers too often - otherwise said rozzers would need special parking spots for his constantly impounded cars...<_<

[Akzle]

And all the working ones would lose a days pay sitting in court awaiting their chance to tell their "story".

And some would have to drive/ride 120km to do that.


And the jews would laugh...

well if you're dumb enough to go to court without being paid then it's kinda your own fault.

[scumdog]

well if you're dumb enough to go to court without being paid then it's kinda your own fault.

There's plenty that dumb, believe me!

[Maha]

and I'll bet that the PD consists of Coffee Groups ?
(I've never done PD ,do they have to pick up rubbish, like at school ?) :rolleyes:

No, it's Pointless Drivel, they spend their hours waffling on about how they've been done wrong and discussing whether or not planes actually flew into the Twin Towers.

School PD was less boring.

[Woodman]

Just heard on the radio talkback

This explains a lot...

Where are those quotes a few of us have asked for? You know to Back up your accusations? To prove that you don't make shit up?

[TheDemonLord]

This explains a lot...

Where are those quotes a few of us have asked for? You know to Back up your accusations? To prove that you don't make shit up?

http://gph.is/1LdcYAZ

[george formby]

Just heard on the radio talkback a guy ring up saying those with a history of being at fault in crashes should pay higher ACC premiums on their reg than others. So I am far from alone in wanting this to happen.

Awww, that's nice. DOC are currently advertising for a couple to stay long term on the Auckland Islands to monitor the Albatross hatchery. Can I send you the application link?

[GazzaH]

OMG Are there two of them?

[Scuba_Steve]

Hahah, who cares - they get nothing from me!:laugh::bleh:
Yea but not through lack of trying tho ay; might be the type of vehicles you use, try something Jap maybee


Just heard on the radio talkback a guy ring up saying those with a history of being at fault in crashes should pay higher ACC premiums on their reg than others. So I am far from alone in wanting this to happen.
Yea & there's also people that think compulsory insurance is a good thing, or the world is flat so don't get too excited there

[rastuscat]

.......or the world is flat so don't get too excited there

I'm kind of sold on the earth being flat. As a cyclist I hate hills.

[FJRider]

I'm kind of sold on the earth being flat. As a cyclist I hate hills.

How far would you fall if you went over the edge ... ??

[FJRider]

Just heard on the radio talkback a guy ring up saying those with a history of being at fault in crashes should pay higher ACC premiums on their reg than others. So I am far from alone in wanting this to happen.

So that's two of you then ... it must happen for sure ... :whistle:

[FJRider]

He must be lucky not to be stopped by the rozzers too often - otherwise said rozzers would need special parking spots for his constantly impounded cars...<_<

Probably only drives his "mates" cars ... :laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

I'm kind of sold on the earth being flat. As a cyclist I hate hills.

Yea but as a cyclist you know hills exist; & remember only half of a hill is hard :msn-wink:
Besides we have undeniable proof the world isn't flat

332945

[rastuscat]

How far would you fall if you went over the edge ... ??

I'll never ride that far.

[Kickaha]

I'll never ride that far.

Why not? Too many donuts?

[scumdog]

Yea but not through lack of trying tho ay; might be the type of vehicles you use, try something Jap maybee




Had a couple - couldn't get a ticket with either. And the XN85 was well able to get into ticket zone...:msn-wink:

[rastuscat]

Long weekend. 4 kmh tolerance.

Just sayin. It'll be interesting to see the outcome.

[eldog]

Public Holiday Weekends - avoid the madness

I will be working, only got to drive to work, how hard can that be, I do it most days.

[eldog]

OMG Are there two of them?

its a CHCH thing obviously, as the poster said......

I just hope I am not related, 6 degrees of separation in NZ and all....

[Akzle]

Long weekend. 4 kmh tolerance.

Just sayin. It'll be interesting to see the outcome.

uhhh. it's never made a difference ever?

[george formby]

Long weekend. 4 kmh tolerance.

Just sayin. It'll be interesting to see the outcome.

:laugh: Judging by my trip home this evening tolerance is alive and kicking oop here in da norf. An almost solid line of paradise bound traffic with a boat being dragged by every third vehicle. I had the impression drivers had given up haste and queued instead. Very civilised. Even my nemesis overtaking lane was sensible.

Fingers crossed good sense is making a comeback regardless of enforcement propaganda. No offense, Rastus.

[rastuscat]

uhhh. it's never made a difference ever?

It's just interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Akzle]

It's just interesting to see how it all plays out.

life as usual.

you'd be deluded if you thought it made a difference.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/98091029/labour-weekend-madness-traffic-building-across-the-country

[awayatc]

It's just interesting to see how it all plays out.

......realy?

Betcha it will be like any other busy weekend....

Plod will be out in numbers, extorting numerous punters that go a few clicks above "limits"

Some fuck wits will splatter themselves in the countryside, taking some unfortunates with them.
Accident will be because of bad driving of sorts, but headshed plod will blame it on speed. ( broken record ..not unlike cassina)

If by some miraculous happenstance the road toll is lower then expected, top plod will beat his chest, somehow trying to take credit ....coz of superjerkingly anal zero tolerance crap.


Did I leave out something?

[Akzle]

Did I leave out something?

:clap: must spread...

[Woodman]

Did I leave out something?


Yes. if the road toll is higher than normal the same police chief who takes credit when it is lower will blame everything but the police.

[Swoop]

Yes. if the road toll is higher than normal the same police chief who takes credit when it is lower will blame everything but the police.
The idiot will simply revert to his indoctrination that "speed is bad, M'kay". Commonly referred to as the "default setting".

[granstar]

:laugh: Judging by my trip home this evening tolerance is alive and kicking oop here in da norf. An almost solid line of paradise bound traffic with a boat being dragged by every third vehicle. I had the impression drivers had given up haste and queued instead. Very civilised. Even my nemesis overtaking lane was sensible.

Fingers crossed good sense is making a comeback regardless of enforcement propaganda. No offense, Rastus.

ChCh to Invercargill today, you could smell the bacon all the way and was good to see one deserved white van getting just deserts for speeding in a passing lane. Still get the idjots who career around corners with their drivers side over the white line (don't fuxing do that, you will kill someone) and noted as Kiwi's and not overseas drivers as culprits.
A big notable over the k's poured on in last week in Northlands twin coast hiway all (but one between the West and Kawakawa a goat track) were smooth and mint.
Then on return Dunners to Invercargill that slippery wet shine appears :bash: they need to sort it :sleep:
I thankfully missed, wifey following me k's back in the tin top had issues with some large group of Harleys South of Dunedin seemingly a tour group of Jappers out of control, going slow and erratic, then speeding up in passing lanes.:Oi:

[veldthui]

How do you know that increasing insurance premiums and I assume you mean as I do for those with a history of being at fault will not bring down the road toll? If those with a history of being at fault are forced off the road due to higher premiums will we not have safer roads? I think its worth a try as everything else has failed. As for all those who say our licensing system is poor compared to other countries I think that is nonsense otherwise tourist drivers would not cause crashes.

Only trouble being is that if they can't afford insurance they wont get it and then get a crap car and still drive so you wont force them off the road. You will just make other pay for there mistakes.

[FJRider]

... As for all those who say our licensing system is poor compared to other countries I think that is nonsense otherwise tourist drivers would not cause crashes.

Overseas tourists drive here on their own country of origin license or an international license. And unless they will be in New Zealand for more than one year ... it is perfectly (well not quite perfect) LEGAL.

Perhaps though ... LARGE fines for those that may not cause an accident ... but do NOTHING to reduce the severity of the accident ... and continue on at 100 km/hr. Safe in the knowledge they are perfectly safe at that speed ...

[Scuba_Steve]

I have heard compulsary insurance happens and works in the UK. Maybe someone from there could confirm if it does.

Works in what way?
Brings the insurance companies lots of moneys? - Yep
Increases insurance fraud? - Yep
Makes a few people better off thanks to that fraud? - Yep
Has increased sales of dash cams? - Yep (same reason Russia has so many)
Is better for the drivers that have to pay the premiums? - Nope

If you like the idea of compulsory insurance just take your full cover premiums triple it & give 2/3rds to me and Congratulations! you now have all the benefits of compulsory insurance (still prob at a cheaper price) & you're not screwing over the rest of us with the retarded idea that is compulsory insurance

[awayatc]

Works in what way?
Brings the insurance companies lots of moneys? - Yep
Increases insurance fraud? - Yep
Makes a few people better off thanks to that fraud? - Yep
Has increased sales of dash cams? - Yep (same reason Russia has so many)
Is better for the drivers that have to pay the premiums? - Nope

If you like the idea of compulsory insurance just take your full cover premiums triple it & give 2/3rds to me and Congratulations! you now have all the benefits of compulsory insurance (still prob at a cheaper price) & you're not screwing over the rest of us with the retarded idea that is compulsory insurance

+ 1

Compulsory insurance will be very expensive.....

[FJRider]

It might be legal for overseas drivers to drive here but they are no better at driving than us. There are many reports of dangerous tourist drivers especially in the Queenstown area. Maybe do a google search if you dont believe me.

That's a change of attitude ... previously you claimed if it was legal you were safe ... ???

By FAR ... more Kiwi's crash in Queenstown than tourist drivers. They just aren't reported to the extent tourist drivers are ... (unless it's a funny story or a gory death)



To give you the best chance of survival in a not at fault crash you either stay off the road completely or buy the biggest vehicle you can afford and certainly ditch the bike. I think it was reported that Saddam Hussain used to impose punishment upon those who have done no wrong it sounds like you have his mentality.

Yep ... lock up stupid women drivers that keep crashing and running over dogs. I ride an FJ1200 ... that'll learn them SUV drivers ... :motu:

[FJRider]

I have heard compulsary insurance happens and works in the UK. Maybe someone from there could confirm if it does.

WOF and Registration is compulsory in NZ ... doesn't mean everybody complies ... :doh:

[scumdog]

Works in what way?
Brings the insurance companies lots of moneys? - Yep
Increases insurance fraud? - Yep
Makes a few people better off thanks to that fraud? - Yep
Has increased sales of dash cams? - Yep (same reason Russia has so many)
Is better for the drivers that have to pay the premiums? - Nope

If you like the idea of compulsory insurance just take your full cover premiums triple it & give 2/3rds to me and Congratulations! you now have all the benefits of compulsory insurance (still prob at a cheaper price) & you're not screwing over the rest of us with the retarded idea that is compulsory insurance


Your rego fee paid for third party insurance many years ago.

The Govt at the time cancelled that idea - but kept the extra money for themselves.<_<

[Akzle]

WOF and Registration is compulsory in NZ ... doesn't mean everybody complies ... :doh:

errr. not compulsory.

a legislated obligation... if one is so inclined to be legally obliged.

[FJRider]

Maybe the extra money went to what is now ACC.

Nope ... it went into the consolidated fund ...

[jasonu]

+ 1

Compulsory insurance will be very expensive.....

It is compulsory here. I have it. Just on $1200 per year total for 3 vehicles. Most of the premium is for medical expenses.

[rastuscat]

Compulsory insurance only works if vehicles are impounded if used with no insurance.

After 7 days, if no insurance papers are produced, the vehicle is confiscated.

Without that, the same people who don't reg and WoF their vehicles will simply not insure them.

[kiwi cowboy]

Appears to me the modern knee jerk reaction to any public problem nowadays is a expectation that the government should fix it.

Can't have people being responsible for their own actions anymore!

Cant be said any better than this :msn-wink:

[kiwi cowboy]

That's a change of attitude ... previously you claimed if it was legal you were safe ... ???

By FAR ... more Kiwi's crash in Queenstown than tourist drivers. They just aren't reported to the extent tourist drivers are ... (unless it's a funny story or a gory death)




Yep ... lock up stupid women drivers that keep crashing and running over dogs. I ride an FJ1200 ... that'll learn them SUV drivers ... :motu:

You still riding the fj?.
Poor thing must be about ready to retire.
1000ks next weekend for me.

[FJRider]

Appears to me the modern knee jerk reaction to any public problem nowadays is a expectation that the government should fix it.

Can't have people being responsible for their own actions anymore!

If it's not their fault ... it shouldn't be their problem .. (Cassina logic)

[FJRider]

You still riding the fj?.
Poor thing must be about ready to retire.
1000ks next weekend for me.

Yep but not as much. On Stewart island working that week ... I'm ready to retire (almost)

[Berries]

On Stewart island working that week.....
Anything to do with chimneys?

[eldog]

Anything to do with chimneys?

Just came in from cleaning the spouting out, is that close?
full of crap, like some places, I know.

[FJRider]

Anything to do with chimneys?

Nope ... Salmon ... ;)

[Scuba_Steve]

Sure insurance is going to be an expensive cost if you have never had it before and in NZ insurance will likely go down as more people will paying it if they still want to drive. As you are likely uninsured yourself would you still be calling it a "Retarded idea" if you were hit by another uninsured driver who was at fault?

I was actually looking for any opinion as to whether the roads were safer due to compulsory insurance in the UK? Whats wrong with dash cams as people are getting them in NZ too. They make it easier to get evidence in an accident assuming they are not written off in the crash.
Who said I'm not insured?
AA found most people here are insured & of those who aren't most can't be insured (under compulsory insurance you have to subsidise them)
Prices go up when things become mandatory
And insurance has no impact on road safety at all in anyway, much the same as fines do shit all to nothing other than give the Govt money. Why would you think having insurance would make people magically better drivers? some people own bloody expensive cars & they're still shit drivers. Money has no relevance to driving ability


Your rego fee paid for third party insurance many years ago.

The Govt at the time cancelled that idea - but kept the extra money for themselves.<_<
No! :gob: That's not like the Govt to keep money & ditch services :whistle:

[Scuba_Steve]

By calling compulsary insurance retarded I thought with that attitude you would not be insured yourself. I looked up a NZ news story on the subject and the reason why we dont have it is due to it being very likely unaffordable by young people especially those owning boy racer cars.
So to put unaffordability over road safety for car owners is odd when you consider the govt does not care about motorcycle registration being unafordable for many. As for insured drivers having to carry uninsured drivers the govt would be dumb to allow that sort of loophole. The reason why I think people would become safer drivers would be if they made too many "at fault" claims they could end up getting put off the road for good as their insurance cover would be cancelled. If compulsory insurance did not work overseas dont you think the governments that have it would have dropped it?

Wow your brain works in weird & funny ways
Again money does NOT make people better drivers in any way shape or form
Again financial penalty does NOT make people better drivers in any way shape or form
Making vehicles more dangerous however may make people better drivers through necessity (there are studies to suggest this)
And why do you think large insurance companies making shitloads of money would let Govts (of which alot of them probably have vested financial interest) get rid of their cash cow?

[awayatc]

Wow your brain works in weird & funny ways
Again money does NOT make people better drivers in any way shape or form
Again financial penalty does NOT make people better drivers in any way shape or form
Making vehicles more dangerous however may make people better drivers through necessity (there are studies to suggest this)
And why do you think large insurance companies making shitloads of money would let Govts (of which alot of them probably have vested financial interest) get rid of their cash cow?

Mate ....
Give up.
Nothing that still manges to breathe is more retarded...
It should be featured as some sort of anomaly in one of these reality TV programs.

I have had more common sense conversations with a door knob.

[Akzle]

Wow your brain works

based on the evidence to date:
no.

[Luckylegs]

Mate ....
Give up.
Nothing that still manges to breathe is more retarded...
It should be featured as some sort of anomaly in one of these reality TV programs.

I have had more common sense conversations with a door knob.

I want what your having...

No really, youve conversed with door knobs? - reminds me of an ex colleague and part time ambo who got called out to job for a chick who'd gotten just a tad more familiar with a door knob in her house




...I do understand the sentiment

[russd7]

Not fucking one fucking poster on this fucking site has fucking ever fucking suggested that they are fucking resistant to fucking crashes because they have fucking been to fucking riding fucking school.

:clap: hilarious. reminds me of a contract milking job i had years back, it was a new conversion and part of the deal was i had to employ the owners son. one day i was at the workshop and the son was milking, the owner came over to me and says "have you got ducks milking this afternoon" i gave him a rather quizzical look and asked what he meant, he just laughed and said "i just came past the cowshed and all i could hear was fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck"

[eldog]

Where is this school Woodman speaks of?

[Berries]

Where is this school Woodman speaks of?
Is it this one in the Tron?

Mmmmmm. Pants. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/98467514/hamilton-boys-high-school-student-injured-in-girls-undie-prank)