should we be allowed semi-autos?

[Cosmik de Bris]

Seems to be a warmish topic on the radio at the moment. It is a pity that there is so much mis-information presented on both sides of the discussion. Radio NZ had some professor from Dunedin saying how no-one needed automatic rifles in NZ. Yes, he continually used the word automatic, some expert. The weapon of choice for the terrorist and the casual mass murderer at the moment seems to be the motor vehicle and the bomb, both of these can kill as many people as with a semi-automatic rifle or pistol.

Although Trump is a certified moron, his comment that the mass killings in the US are a mental health problem not a firearm one does resonate a little with me. In some ways our firearm laws are a little more relaxed than in the US but we don't have the same sort of problem, despite being the second highest firearm owners in the world. In NZ, for example, a criminal conviction does not mean you can't own a firearm licence, as long as the conviction isn't violence related and you don't have a restraining order against you. In the US a federal offence means no firearm. There are loop-holes in this however, the gun show for example.

Anyway, it seems to me that the US has a real problem with their people that we in general don't, that is a mental health problem and their gun culture. They use phrases like "pulling the trigger" for the simple act of buying something, a sure sign that something is wrong with the whole mentality of the population. Of course they're not all like that, probably not that many are archetypal republican gun nuts, but they have a significant influence on the culture.

As for the pro side putting Mr Tipple on as spokesman doesn't do the pro side any favours.

Cheers

[TheDemonLord]

To answer the opening question:

Yes, we should be allowed semi-autos.

IMO the NZ system has some of the most balanced and fair gun laws - there's a few tweaks I'd make here and there, but overall we have it pretty good.

The US however is whole different kettle of fish.

There are Mental Health issues, but there are also issues (IMO) with the 2nd Amendment (in so far as it's out of date, and it grants something as a right which IMO is a privledge), I think there is also an underlying mindset that is relevant to the US issue.

[Akzle]

"allowed" by whom? (and who is "we"? i believe civillians should be equally, or better, as armed as the government/enforcement)

those inclined to adhere to the legislature go through the hoops to obtain full autos.

those less inclined to legislature, still obtain full autos.

self loaders have applications in pest destruction, target shooting for those with shoulder injuries, lazy cunts, etc.

and i have to switch off whenever talkbackers phone up about "gun stuff" because the level of general ignorance gives me the shits.
even amongst license holders and self-proclaimed enthusiasts.

[TheDemonLord]

"allowed" by whom? (and who is "we"? i believe civillians should be equally, or better, as armed as the government/enforcement)

The problem there is that in todays battle space - the cost of entry is simply too high for a civillian, or even a well regulated militia to achieve parity with the Governement. Not to mention that the Government has some other advantages of scale and tactics (such as co-ordinated assaults) that aren't open to the Civillians.

Even if I do agree that the spirit of the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental problem that it is right to be cognizant of, even if I think that with advances in Tech, the 2nd Amendment has aged poorly.


those inclined to adhere to the legislature go through the hoops to obtain full autos.

those less inclined to legislature, still obtain full autos.

I'd love to own a Full-Auto, but if someone was to ask why I should need one - the best answer I have is "Fun at the range" - which isn't enough of a Justification to own one.


self loaders have applications in pest destruction, target shooting for those with shoulder injuries, lazy cunts, etc.

Plus they give you +5 Tactikool points.


and i have to switch off whenever talkbackers phone up about "gun stuff" because the level of general ignorance gives me the shits.
even amongst license holders and self-proclaimed enthusiasts.
So no different from posting on KB then.... :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Swoop]

In some ways our firearm laws are a little more relaxed than in the US...
Not true.
Ours require more strenuous vetting prior to and at re-licencing time. Also concealed carry isn't legally permitted here... among other things.
Our firearm laws are possibly one of the finest, workable pieces of legislation in the world.


I love the TV "experts" spouting off about "easily fixing the American gun laws". Utter bullshit indeed. The dopey bint on TV3's The Project is a classic example.
The ingrained psyche goes back to the 1800's where everybody had a firearm for hunting, protection from wild animals, two-legged vermin, etc, etc. That psyche has been ingrained ever since and the "horse has already bolted" as the saying goes.
To change America's gun culture is not a simple matter whatsoever.


Yes, we should be able to own self loading firearms.


btw: No such thing as semi-auto. It is either fully automatic or it fires a single round at a time. "Self-loading" is the correct term.

[neels]

Given that NZ doesn't have a huge problem with mass shootings, or shootings in general, it's hard to point at any major issues with our current gun laws.

It's not particularly difficult to obtain a firearms licence, in fact possibly easier (or less risky) than trying to obtain illegal weapons, so if someone really wanted to collect some guns and go crazy bonkers and shoot up a church they probably could with completely legal firearms. There's not a lot of justification for automatics in a sporting context, however semi's have their place, for example when you're in a paddock crawling with bunnies and trying to take out as many as you can before they all leg it.

The lack of gun deaths despite our high rate of ownership could be related to the storage requirements, and the inability for any idiot who thinks he's a gangster to walk around with a handgun on their person.

One idea that has been raised in the past which seems not unreasonable is registration of firearms to owners, it doesn't seem like a terrible plan to keep track of what's out there in the world, whether it would prevent anything bad from happening is a different matter altogether.

[oldrider]

Not true.
Ours require more strenuous vetting prior to and at re-licencing time. Also concealed carry isn't legally permitted here... among other things.
Our firearm laws are possibly one of the finest, workable pieces of legislation in the world.


I love the TV "experts" spouting off about "easily fixing the American gun laws". Utter bullshit indeed. The dopey bint on TV3's The Project is a classic example.
The ingrained psyche goes back to the 1800's where everybody had a firearm for hunting, protection from wild animals, two-legged vermin, etc, etc. That psyche has been ingrained ever since and the "horse has already bolted" as the saying goes.
To change America's gun culture is not a simple matter whatsoever.


Yes, we should be able to own self loading firearms.


btw: No such thing as semi-auto. It is either fully automatic or it fires a single round at a time. "Self-loading" is the correct term.

Perhaps a little Utopian but good balanced government (less is more) and honest money creation would help heaps! :sunny:

[FJRider]

Seems to be a warmish topic on the radio at the moment. It is a pity that there is so much mis-information presented on both sides of the discussion.

More lack of information ... bordering on ignorance ... with a dash of stupidity thrown in for good measure ... ;)


Yes, he continually used the word automatic, some expert. The weapon of choice for the terrorist and the casual mass murderer at the moment seems to be the motor vehicle and the bomb, both of these can kill as many people as with a semi-automatic rifle or pistol.

As has already been said ... The two types are automatic or self loading single or multi-round firing. (As opposed to machine guns ... which have no single shot ability.) And the single shot (With rifles usually bolt action). But the weapon needs to be re-loaded manually after each shot that is fired.


Although Trump is a certified moron, his comment that the mass killings in the US are a mental health problem not a firearm one does resonate a little with me.

Name ONE offender that caused single or multiple deaths with the use of firearms (of any type) ... that was a LICENSED gun owner. Remember Aramoana ... ??? Tell me that (in your opinion) Grey was totally sane ... ;)


In some ways our firearm laws are a little more relaxed than in the US but we don't have the same sort of problem, In NZ, for example, a criminal conviction does not mean you can't own a firearm licence, as long as the conviction isn't violence related and you don't have a restraining order against you.

The USA has "The right to bear arms" which is defined as " the people's right to possess weapons (arms) for their own defense"
Shooting an unarmed concert crowd from 30 floors up in the dark ... is NOT in self defense. He wasn't even in the room to sleep. He came to kill with 26 (I think) weapons.

In New Zealand ... Trophy hunting, sports shooting competitions, food gathering, pest eradication, and road sign perforation ... seem to be Kiwi's main use of firearms. Being used for instant divorce not so much ...


In the US a federal offence means no firearm. There are loop-holes in this however, the gun show for example.

It depends ENTIRELY which STATE you are in. Rules in some states may vary.


They use phrases like "pulling the trigger" for the simple act of buying something, a sure sign that something is wrong with the whole mentality of the population.

What does the phrase "It looks sick bro) mean to you ... ??? Even to some members on this site could give a different meaning/understanding to your's ... depending how old you are really. The "mentality" of the one that came up with the latter day meaning might be a sure sign of something not quite right ... ;)


Of course they're not all like that, probably not that many are archetypal republican gun nuts, but they have a significant influence on the culture.

In NZ ... there are many archetypal motorcycle nuts ... is that good or bad .. ?? ... ??? Are THEY good or bad ... ?? And ... they DO have a significant influence on the culture. Again ... is that good or bad ... ???

[Grumph]

I'd just like to see a bit more responsible ownership and use. Found another bullet hole in the house yesterday, now 5 there.
None seem to be bigger than .22 so I'm picking it's bunny shooters in the area around the village.
How hard is it to site yourself to shoot away from the built up area ?
Plenty of kids in the village now - there's always a risk of hitting one.

[Kickaha]

As for the pro side putting Mr Tipple on as spokesman doesn't do the pro side any favours.


Seriously? They must be total muppets


so if someone really wanted to collect some guns and go crazy bonkers and shoot up a church they probably could with completely legal firearms.

Depending on what site you want to read and believe 60-80% of US mass shootings are carried out by legally owned firearms

[Berries]

Radio NZ had some professor from Dunedin saying how no-one needed automatic rifles in NZ. Yes, he continually used the word automatic, some expert.
Right. So what is the correct way to refer to an automatic rifle without using the word automatic?

[Graystone]

Nothing wrong with self-loading rifles. It's just a convenience thing. If there was an incident which would have been prevented or mitigated by their ban then it might be worth looking at again, the probability of that seems pretty small since our gun culture isn't fucked.

But if that did happen, maybe only self-loaders for .22s, keep the pests at bay. Hunters who really need self loaders should spend more time at the range. Bolt action's are pretty quick anyway.

[jasonu]

btw: No such thing as semi-auto. It is either fully automatic or it fires a single round at a time. "Self-loading" is the correct term.

Right or wrong if you start referring to self loading firearms no one will know what you are on about. Maybe another horse that has bolted.

[jasonu]

Name ONE offender that caused single or multiple deaths with the use of firearms (of any type) ... that was a LICENSED gun owner.


Stephen Paddock

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'd love to own a Full-Auto, but if someone was to ask why I should need one - the best answer I have is "Fun at the range" - which isn't enough of a Justification to own one.



Speaking of "fun at the range" - One of my friends was on holiday in Vietnam earlier this year. She posted a youtube clip of herself firing an entire mag of AK47 and laughing maniacally. That range also had an M60 you could have a burl on.

yes, I'm going next year, why do you ask?

Years ago I had a crack at firing a few handguns (HMS shooting if I remember what they called it) and it was great fun. But the hassle of getting the licence(s) meant I CBF - I still dont have even an A cat licence. I also dont need another fucking expensive hobby.

[TheDemonLord]

Speaking of "fun at the range" - One of my friends was on holiday in Vietnam earlier this year. She posted a youtube clip of herself firing an entire mag of AK47 and laughing maniacally. That range also had an M60 you could have a burl on.

yes, I'm going next year, why do you ask?

Years ago I had a crack at firing a few handguns (HMS shooting if I remember what they called it) and it was great fun. But the hassle of getting the licence(s) meant I CBF - I still dont have even an A cat licence. I also dont need another fucking expensive hobby.

This may or may not be on my Bucket list

https://www.battlefieldvegas.com/

[Honest Andy]

I'd just like to see a bit more responsible ownership and use. Found another bullet hole in the house yesterday, now 5 there.
None seem to be bigger than .22 so I'm picking it's bunny shooters in the area around the village.
How hard is it to site yourself to shoot away from the built up area ?
Plenty of kids in the village now - there's always a risk of hitting one.

Fucksake! I hope you showed it to the local constable, they might be able to follow it up before you loose a window....

[haydes55]

No. I think if you can't ride a manual, you shouldn't be riding a motorbike. Automatic or semi-automatic motorbikes are sacrilege.

Also guns are fun. Giz a shot.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Akzle]

The problem there is that in todays battle space - the cost of entry is simply too high for a civillian, or even a well regulated militia to achieve parity with the Governement. Not to mention that the Government has some other advantages of scale and tactics (such as co-ordinated assaults) that aren't open to the Civillians.

Even if I do agree that the spirit of the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental problem that it is right to be cognizant of, even if I think that with advances in Tech, the 2nd Amendment has aged poorly.



I'd love to own a Full-Auto, but if someone was to ask why I should need one - the best answer I have is "Fun at the range" - which isn't enough of a Justification to own one.



Plus they give you +5 Tactikool points.


So no different from posting on KB then.... :laugh::laugh::laugh:

try and stick to the topic. as ineteresting as the ass-pie shit is, it doesnt make for good internets.

i don't mean capability. i mean price and availability. and EQUALITY. i don't expect the civvies to mobilise against an army.

who needs a reason? "cos i can and it doesn't fuck anyone else's day up" is enough.

[Akzle]

.

The lack of gun deaths despite our high rate of ownership could be related to the storage requirements, and the inability for any idiot who thinks he's a gangster to walk around with a handgun on their person.

except states that support open carry show statistically less firearms crime.



One idea that has been raised in the past which seems not unreasonable is registration of firearms to owners, it doesn't seem like a terrible plan to keep track of what's out there in the world, whether it would prevent anything bad from happening is a different matter altogether.
tried and failed. nz chucked it (shortly after port arthur farce) teh govt licenses PEOPLE as "fit and proper" we dont license FIREARMS, as firearms without people, tend not to do very much at all.

[Akzle]

I'd just like to see a bit more responsible ownership and use. Found another bullet hole in the house yesterday, now 5 there.
None seem to be bigger than .22 so I'm picking it's bunny shooters in the area around the village.
How hard is it to site yourself to shoot away from the built up area ?
Plenty of kids in the village now - there's always a risk of hitting one.

that's a) unfortunate and b) pretty shit. nz only has 7 fucken rules and one of them is "be sure of your firing zone.

i would find out out who's doing it. and suggest they switch to a shotgun.

[Akzle]

Right. So what is the correct way to refer to an automatic rifle without using the word automatic?

that depends on your ignorance.

"automatic"= "full auto" - bullets come out until you run out or let go.

"semi automatic" = "self loading" - you do not need to manually cycle the weapon between trigger actuations.

[scumdog]

and i have to switch off whenever talkbackers phone up about "gun stuff" because the level of general ignorance gives me the shits.
even amongst license holders and self-proclaimed enthusiasts.

Yep, its :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: city when you hear the waffle some trot out.
(It's sort of audio-KB)<_<

[scumdog]

This may or may not be on my Bucket list

https://www.battlefieldvegas.com/

Yep its a blast but they load their ammo prices!:crazy:

[scumdog]

Nothing wrong with self-loading rifles. It's just a convenience thing. If there was an incident which would have been prevented or mitigated by their ban then it might be worth looking at again, the probability of that seems pretty small since our gun culture isn't fucked.

But if that did happen, maybe only self-loaders for .22s, keep the pests at bay. Hunters who really need self loaders should spend more time at the range. Bolt action's are pretty quick anyway.

Duck shooters would be pissed off with your ideas!

BTW:The Raurimu massacre dude used a single-shot shotgun to shoot a bunch of people.

[FJRider]

The problem there is that in todays battle space - the cost of entry is simply too high for a civillian, or even a well regulated militia to achieve parity with the Governement. Not to mention that the Government has some other advantages of scale and tactics (such as co-ordinated assaults) that aren't open to the Civillians.

Even if I do agree that the spirit of the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental problem that it is right to be cognizant of, even if I think that with advances in Tech, the 2nd Amendment has aged poorly.

The 2nd Amendment is not about going to war. It is about the right to "Bear Arms" in their own defense. Be it in the street ... or on their own property. It may not be Indians very often these days ... but there are plenty of not nice people that like to fuck people over. If having a gun might mean ruining THEIR day ... then getting a gun might seem like a good idea.

[Akzle]

Right or wrong if you start referring to self loading firearms no one will know what you are on about. Maybe another horse that has bolted.

unless they're not ignorant.

[Graystone]

Duck shooters would be pissed off with your ideas!

BTW:The Raurimu massacre dude used a single-shot shotgun to shoot a bunch of people.

Nothing wrong with a chump action.

I know, it highlights why NZ is unlikely to see any benefit of removing self loaders.

[Akzle]

Nothing wrong with self-loading rifles. It's just a convenience thing. If there was an incident which would have been prevented or mitigated by their ban then it might be worth looking at again, the probability of that seems pretty small since our gun culture isn't fucked.

But if that did happen, maybe only self-loaders for .22s, keep the pests at bay. Hunters who really need self loaders should spend more time at the range. Bolt action's are pretty quick anyway.

i know people who shoot pump shotguns almost as fast as a semi. like, to the point you need equipment to measure the difference.
the old(er) army boys can crank 40 rounds a minute through a. 30, and accurately.

it's not "hunters" to worry. it's culling, that it comes in handy.

[TheDemonLord]

The 2nd Amendment is not about going to war. It is about the right to "Bear Arms" in their own defense. Be it in the street ... or on their own property. It may not be Indians very often these days ... but there are plenty of not nice people that like to fuck people over. If having a gun might mean ruining THEIR day ... then getting a gun might seem like a good idea.

Certainly part of the 2A was to codify the individuals natural right to self defence, however The 2nd Amendment is also about giving the Populace the power to resist the Tyranny of the Government, borne out of the American experience of the War of Independence (at the hands of the British - Huzzah!).

It's premise is that a well-armed citizenry can act as a check and balance to the powers of the government, thus keeping the government from ever over-reaching it's mandate or from becoming despotic.

My Critique of this notion is that if the US was to turn despotic - the difference between the level of Firepower that the individual can acquire and the level that the US government has renders this original intent out of date.

The days where both sides had access to smoothbore blackpowder muskets and Kentucky rifles (thus having an equal playing field) are long since gone.

[Swoop]

One idea that has been raised in the past which seems not unreasonable is registration of firearms to owners, it doesn't seem like a terrible plan to keep track of what's out there in the world, whether it would prevent anything bad from happening is a different matter altogether.
An entirely useless idea which has been proven many times to be grossly over-expensive to the taxpayer, inefficient and an utter waste of time. The Canadin firearm registry debacle is the most recent system, which has now been done away with due to: not solving one single crime!, massively flawed, hideously expensive to establish and maintain and a drain on resources which could be better used elsewhere.

NZ used to have a registration system, but did away with it for the same reasons of not achieving anything for the efforts expended on it.



Name ONE offender that caused single or multiple deaths with the use of firearms (of any type) ... that was a LICENSED gun owner. Remember Aramoana ... ??? Tell me that (in your opinion) Grey was totally sane ... ;)
Sadly, like a lot of shootings in the civilised world (outside of the usa) are preventable and the police failed to act. Aramoana and Dunblane are classic examples of a person whose actions had already brought them to the attention of the authorities.

[FJRider]

Certainly part of the 2A was to codify the individuals natural right to self defence, however The 2nd Amendment is also about giving the Populace the power to resist the Tyranny of the Government, borne out of the American experience of the War of Independence (at the hands of the British - Huzzah!).

It's premise is that a well-armed citizenry can act as a check and balance to the powers of the government, thus keeping the government from ever over-reaching it's mandate or from becoming despotic.

My Critique of this notion is that if the US was to turn despotic - the difference between the level of Firepower that the individual can acquire and the level that the US government has renders this original intent out of date.

The days where both sides had access to smoothbore blackpowder muskets and Kentucky rifles (thus having an equal playing field) are long since gone.

Questions ... Which side came out ahead in the Vietnam war .. ??? Did the "Level of firepower" The US provided ... really make a difference in the end result ... ???

[Berries]

that depends on your ignorance.

"automatic"= "full auto" - bullets come out until you run out or let go.

"semi automatic" = "self loading" - you do not need to manually cycle the weapon between trigger actuations.
Happy to admit that I am fully ignorant on the subject. I don't know what a manual cycle is when it comes to guns so they both sound the same, keep your finger on the trigger and it keeps firing.

I don't get you gun lovers. I have a Hunting and Fishing catalogue next to me right now. Thinking of getting a .22 to deal with rampant rabbits and stupid roosters in the back yard. If I fancied the idea of going off and shooting a deer, a moose, a moa or a Cantabrian I would get a licence and get some fancy rifle. What I can't work out is why you would need a rapid fire gun here in little old NZ. I would have thought deer fuck off quite quickly when they hear a gun shot, it is not like spraying a crowd in Las Vegas or downtown Damascus.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Certainly part of the 2A was to codify the individuals natural right to self defence, however The 2nd Amendment is also about giving the Populace the power to resist the Tyranny of the Government, borne out of the American experience of the War of Independence (at the hands of the British - Huzzah!).

It's premise is that a well-armed citizenry can act as a check and balance to the powers of the government, thus keeping the government from ever over-reaching it's mandate or from becoming despotic.

My Critique of this notion is that if the US was to turn despotic - the difference between the level of Firepower that the individual can acquire and the level that the US government has renders this original intent out of date.

The days where both sides had access to smoothbore blackpowder muskets and Kentucky rifles (thus having an equal playing field) are long since gone.

I'd suggest that the US gubblemunt has taken that turn already. https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/05/economist-explains-22

Americans are afraid all the time. so they reach for their pacifiers

[TheDemonLord]

Questions ... Which side came out ahead in the Vietnam war .. ??? Did the "Level of firepower" The US provided ... really make a difference in the end result ... ???

Fair question - and to answer, I'm going to go full armchair general...

First point is that Vietnam represented a new style of Warfare that the US simply wasn't prepared for - a Guerrilla style fight and one in a Jungle no less - which the US didn't have experience in.

Second point is that the Vietnamese didn't so much as win, as it was that America withdrew - the War wasn't popular politically, something which a government that is concerned with popular opinion seeks to avoid.

Thirdly - we've seen the modern US armed forces fight insurgency/guerilla style wars since then - and whilst I concede absolutely that a relatively lowtech armed force can inflict damage (IED strikes etc.) - they can't stop the tanks from rolling in, they can't stop the co-ordinated airstrikes, they can't stop the precision guided munitions.

Fourthly those conflicts weren't fought on home soil, they were fought on the opposite sides of the world.

The point I'm making is that if tomorrow, Trump went full dictator, there is not a damn thing the average citizen could do to stop it, except hope and pray that the US armed forces staged a Coup d'état.

[Akzle]

Happy to admit that I am fully ignorant on the subject. I don't know what a manual cycle is when it comes to guns so they both sound the same, keep your finger on the trigger and it keeps firing.
that would be automatica.

a SEMI you need to release the trigger between each shot, but it loads the next one for you.

anything else you need to pump/rack/cycle/drop/break the action, remove the spent cartridge, and load the next.


I don't get you gun lovers. I have a Hunting and Fishing catalogue next to me right now. Thinking of getting a .22 to deal with rampant rabbits and stupid roosters in the back yard. If I fancied the idea of going off and shooting a deer, a moose, a moa or a Cantabrian I would get a licence and get some fancy rifle. What I can't work out is why you would need a rapid fire gun here in little old NZ. I would have thought deer fuck off quite quickly when they hear a gun shot, it is not like spraying a crowd in Las Vegas or downtown Damascus.

to which i would recommend: a) dont buy from humping and fisting; b) either get a professional in to kill them all, or get something very quiet, so as they don't learn they're being shot; c) "rapid" is subjective, and when one has *cough* more than *cough* seven targets and no e-cat, one must be rather o-fay with lés mag changes.

goats and rabbits tend to flock.

it's usually the first shot that counts. the days of flattening mobs of deer are bygone. but most of them were taken with bolty. 30s or. 222 anyways...

[Akzle]

.

The point I'm making is that if tomorrow, Trump went full dictator, there is not a damn thing the average citizen could do to stop it, except hope and pray that the US armed forces staged a Coup d'état.

au contraire.

the us has never "won" a shooting war. they rely on being overgunned (to the profit of teh jews)
the us were never fighting a standing army, rather, every man woman and child capable (and duly motivated) to politely sugest they fuck-right-off. and that's what they face (and lose) time and again. because patriotism is strongest on home soil.

[Berries]

goats and rabbits tend to flock.
I knew a girl from Shanghai who did the same.

[Akzle]

I knew a girl from Shanghai who did the same.

a girl who did flocks of goats and rabbits?

did she also play pingpong?

[awayatc]

a girl who did flocks of goats and rabbits?

did she also play pingpong?

and she cycled full cock.......

and ejected spend cases

[pzkpfw]

... Although Trump is a certified moron, his comment that the mass killings in the US are a mental health problem not a firearm one ...

Wasn't one republican act to put down a possible law that was going to take into account mental health issues in firearm purchasing?

Yep: Trump = moron.



(I also don't understand the U.S. obsession with the 2nd Amendment. The fact it's called an "Amendment" shows they can change their constitution. They've done it at least twice! (27). Weird that some of them then treat the document as sacred scripture that can't be touched. (Must be afraid their Bibles are next.))

[TheDemonLord]

(I also don't understand the U.S. obsession with the 2nd Amendment. The fact it's called an "Amendment" shows they can change their constitution. They've done it at least twice! (27). Weird that some of them then treat the document as sacred scripture that can't be touched. (Must be afraid their Bibles are next.))

The 2A is part of the first 10 Amendments - known as the Bill of rights - And it could be argued that those rights have formed the foundational basis of the US, which is why they are held as quasi-sacred.

On top of that - all of them seek to address very real issues in order to preserve the rights of the individual and set reasonable limits on the powers of the State.

[Cosmik de Bris]

Not true.
Ours require more strenuous vetting prior to and at re-licencing time. Also concealed carry isn't legally permitted here... among other things.
Our firearm laws are possibly one of the finest, workable pieces of legislation in the world.


I did say "in some ways". Here you can get a licence even with a criminal conviction.

Cheers

[Banditbandit]

I legally own a 12-gauge semi-automatic ... what's the problem?

[Banditbandit]

The 2A is part of the first 10 Amendments - known as the Bill of rights - And it could be argued that those rights have formed the foundational basis of the US, which is why they are held as quasi-sacred.

On top of that - all of them seek to address very real issues in order to preserve the rights of the individual and set reasonable limits on the powers of the State.

it reads:


The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Given the time this was written the US had no standing army and the militia had fought off the British - so this is not about the generalized right to bear arms .. this is about having a militia to defend the USA ...

Arguably - but to me self-evident - now that the US has a standing army it does not need a militia - or the generalized right to bear arms. OR All gun owners can be called into a militia at any time and sent to face the enemy .. I doubt many of them would be happy with either choice - especially the latter ..

[Voltaire]

Fair question - and to answer, I'm going to go full armchair general...

First point is that Vietnam represented a new style of Warfare that the US simply wasn't prepared for - a Guerrilla style fight and one in a Jungle no less - which the US didn't have experience in.

Second point is that the Vietnamese didn't so much as win, as it was that America withdrew - the War wasn't popular politically, something which a government that is concerned with popular opinion seeks to avoid.

Thirdly - we've seen the modern US armed forces fight insurgency/guerilla style wars since then - and whilst I concede absolutely that a relatively lowtech armed force can inflict damage (IED strikes etc.) - they can't stop the tanks from rolling in, they can't stop the co-ordinated airstrikes, they can't stop the precision guided munitions.

Fourthly those conflicts weren't fought on home soil, they were fought on the opposite sides of the world.

The point I'm making is that if tomorrow, Trump went full dictator, there is not a damn thing the average citizen could do to stop it, except hope and pray that the US armed forces staged a Coup d'état.

Best you watch the Ken Burns 10 part series on TV 1 on Demand.

If you send in 500 000 troops, drop more bombs than in WW2 and spend 70 Billion over 20 years and "withdraw" its called losing.

They only withdrew as it was affecting both the Democrats and Republicans winning elections.

[TheDemonLord]

it reads:

Given the time this was written the US had no standing army and the militia had fought off the British - so this is not about the generalized right to bear arms .. this is about having a militia to defend the USA ...

Arguably - but to me self-evident - now that the US has a standing army it does not need a militia - or the generalized right to bear arms. OR All gun owners can be called into a militia at any time and sent to face the enemy .. I doubt many of them would be happy with either choice - especially the latter ..

To be clear - me personally - I agree with your interpretation as to what constitutes a well-regulated Militia, however there's been several big Court decisions (I think at the Supreme Court level) where they have ratified that the definition extends to the individual, and since it's the US constitution and US law - their interpretation wins.

[TheDemonLord]

Best you watch the Ken Burns 10 part series on TV 1 on Demand.

If you send in 500 000 troops, drop more bombs than in WW2 and spend 70 Billion over 20 years and "withdraw" its called losing.

Drop more bombs, sure - but compare the troop numbers - nearly more people died (from the US) in WW2 than were deployed in Vietnam (405,000 vs 500,000)

My point was that the NVA didn't drive the US out of Vietnam and achieve a military victory.


They only withdrew as it was affecting both the Democrats and Republicans winning elections.

That's my point.

The US withdrew, the NVA didn't win.

[Voltaire]

Drop more bombs, sure - but compare the troop numbers - nearly more people died (from the US) in WW2 than were deployed in Vietnam (405,000 vs 500,000)

My point was that the NVA didn't drive the US out of Vietnam and achieve a military victory.



That's my point.

The US withdrew, the NVA didn't win.

They were never going to win, watch the Documentary.

[TheDemonLord]

They were never going to win, watch the Documentary.

I'll watch the Documentary - but from what I've read of the Vietnam war (again - full Arm Chair General mode here) - is that the US could have won, but no one wanted to escalate it to that point.

[Akzle]

I'll watch the Documentary - but from what I've read of the Vietnam war (again - full Arm Chair General mode here) - is that the US could have won, but no one wanted to escalate it to that point.

won what ?

[Kickaha]

The US withdrew, the NVA didn't win.

Same end result, if I was having a fight with someone and they decided they'd fuck off I'd be calling it a win

[GazzaH]

So would they, and so would some of us.

[Akzle]

I legally own a 12-gauge semi-automatic ... what's the problem?

it could be used in the comission of a crime.
consider yourself lucky you're not limited to 3 shot plugs. yet.

[T.W.R]

I'd just like to see a bit more responsible ownership and use. Found another bullet hole in the house yesterday, now 5 there.
None seem to be bigger than .22 so I'm picking it's bunny shooters in the area around the village.
How hard is it to site yourself to shoot away from the built up area ?
Plenty of kids in the village now - there's always a risk of hitting one.

Wait till you get a car load of halfwits ripping through the village in the early hours letting off shots at the intersection signs & in the process emptying a full magazine. Or having one of the local degenerates climbing halfway up a tree one night to pump a heap of .177s into a possum while the knuckle dragging parents get the family car out on the street so the headlights illuminate everything :pinch: each time it took plod over 20mins to make an appearance :oi-grr:


Speaking of "fun at the range" - One of my friends was on holiday in Vietnam earlier this year. She posted a youtube clip of herself firing an entire mag of AK47 and laughing maniacally. That range also had an M60 you could have a burl on.

yes, I'm going next year, why do you ask?


There's an outfit in Thailand where you can blow the buggery out of a cattle beasts with RPGs :crazy:



True hunting apart from waterfowl and rabbiting there isn't any need for SLR; A top notch deer hunter and thar & chamois hunters are frugal with ammo and the environment dictates that and the worst thing is some trigger happy cowboy blasting the shit out of everything, it has repercussions for a long time.

Though having used a Gevarm .22 with a banana clip and the special wee pin knocked out was entertaining shooting from the back of a truck on a hare drive ;)

[Swoop]

What I can't work out is why you would need a rapid fire gun here in little old NZ.
You haven't discovered a mob of goats then.
Or competitive shooting events.
Perhaps even historical reasons?
Simple skill? A self loader isn't as inherently accurate as a bolt action, meaning more skill required - especially as distances increase.




There's an outfit in Thailand where you can blow the buggery out of a cattle beasts with RPGs :crazy:

I think you mean Vietnam...

[T.W.R]

You haven't discovered a mob of goats then.

Must be a slower breed of goat up north, find a mob down here and ping one off and the rest scarper pretty bloody fast and no matter whether you're a crack shot with a semi auto or bolt action and at best maybe down one or two others before they're vanished out of sight




I think you mean Vietnam...

Was just going off memory from a few years back of an old work colleague who spent a couple of months over there and came back bragging about what he'd got up to and had pics of one of his mates lined up ready to take a shot; not my cup of tea personally but some individuals have unique perversions to get their jollies from :pinch:

[Berries]

Perhaps even historical reasons?
We aren't allowed to shoot the natives down here any more.

[awayatc]

We aren't allowed to shoot the natives down here any more.

Not even for sport?

[Swoop]

Must be a slower breed of goat up north, find a mob down here and ping one off and the rest scarper pretty bloody fast...

The mobs are slower since they are all stuck in D'auckland's traffic.;)

Yes, the RPG "tourism" is a bit weird. To put it mildly.

[Cosmik de Bris]

I legally own a 12-gauge semi-automatic ... what's the problem?

There isn't one at the moment, but some people would like to remove your right to own one.

Cheers

[F5 Dave]

Was filling up in Greymouth yesterday and there were all these young chaps wandering around with pretty serious looking weaponry. Was pretty freaky. And you say we don't have a gun problem. Probably some rampant Souf Island Militia, you know, all wearing the same camouflage gear etc.
I tried not to make eye contact and they left me alone but it was a close thing for sure as I have been known to look at people funny before.

[caspernz]

A self loader isn't as inherently accurate as a bolt action, meaning more skill required - especially as distances increase.

Oh I don't know, the M82s we played with seemed to leave their mark in much the same place every time one squeezed the trigger...quite a bit more cost effective than the 20 mm Gatling, although much less intimidating :wacko:;)

[jasonu]

Was filling up in Greymouth yesterday and there were all these young chaps wandering around with pretty serious looking weaponry. Was pretty freaky. And you say we don't have a gun problem. Probably some rampant Souf Island Militia, you know, all wearing the same camouflage gear etc.
I tried not to make eye contact and they left me alone but it was a close thing for sure as I have been known to look at people funny before.

They were prolly slug guns.

[Swoop]

The 2A is part of the first 10 Amendments - known as the Bill of rights - And it could be argued that those rights have formed the foundational basis of the US, which is why they are held as quasi-sacred.


Given the time this was written the US had no standing army and the militia had fought off the British - so this is not about the generalized right to bear arms .. this is about having a militia to defend the USA ...

Arguably - but to me self-evident - now that the US has a standing army it does not need a militia - or the generalized right to bear arms. OR All gun owners can be called into a militia at any time and sent to face the enemy .. I doubt many of them would be happy with either choice - especially the latter ..
It is a reference to freedom from tyranny and not just that of foreign invaders.

The idea of "changing / altering the 2nd Amendment" is an interesting discussion, as by doing so it would send a message that all others are open for changing "as and when required".
I can see a government being quite happy to modify the 1st Amendment...
The 5th would be happily changed by the police and prosecutors...

So, it has the potential to open a bigger can of worms.

[pritch]

One idea that has been raised in the past which seems not unreasonable is registration of firearms to owners, it doesn't seem like a terrible plan to keep track of what's out there in the world, whether it would prevent anything bad from happening is a different matter altogether.

It used to exist in the past but it was in complete disarray and nobody could ever point to it having solved a single crime. The Police are doing a better job of controlling the restricted categories of firearm these days. Possibly overdoing it? The old addage applies though, "The only people who are policed are those who permit themselves to be policed".

Interesting how our first firearms laws came into being. It was nothing to do with crime, it was in 1917 or 1918 following the Russian revloution; politicians here were worried that the idea of revolution could catch on. They hugely underestimated our national apathy.

[Akzle]

".

Interesting how our first firearms laws came into being. It was nothing to do with crime, it was in 1917 or 1918 following the Russian revloution; politicians here were worried that the idea of revolution could catch on. They hugely underestimated our national apathy.

for civilians maybe. the armed constabulary go back to 1840 or so. and the office of constable is a public one... so.

[pritch]

for civilians maybe. the armed constabulary go back to 1840 or so. and the office of constable is a public one... so.

You lost me there. Was there a requirement for the AC to register themselves or their firearms?

It was basically open slather until the Russians frightened the pollies.

[pritch]

I'll watch the Documentary - but from what I've read of the Vietnam war (again - full Arm Chair General mode here) - is that the US could have won, but no one wanted to escalate it to that point.


That's fair. The US military didn't lose a major battle. The TV coverage of the Viet Cong running around the US Embassy during Tet 1968 rattled the people back home and the subsequent TV coverage caused the public and the politicians to lose faith. The north Vietnamese definitely won the propaganda war.

In the period following Tet though the Viet Cong were pretty much a spent force as they had suffered enormous casualties, but the NVA had moved south to take their place.

This is basically an account of the arrival of the NVA in an area of interest to the Australian and Kiwi troops. http://artilleryhistory.org/moments_in_history/on_this_day/1968/documents/real_story_of_fspb_coral_v7.pdf

[Akzle]

That's fair. The US military didn't lose a major battle. The TV coverage of the Viet Cong running around the US Embassy during Tet 1968 rattled the people back home and the subsequent TV coverage caused the public and the politicians to lose faith. The north Vietnamese definitely won the propaganda war.

In the period following Tet though the Viet Cong were pretty much a spent force as they had suffered enormous casualties, but the NVA had moved south to take their place.

This is basically an account of the arrival of the NVA in an area of interest to the Australian and Kiwi troops. http://artilleryhistory.org/moments_in_history/on_this_day/1968/documents/real_story_of_fspb_coral_v7.pdf

and lest we forget america wasn't the first to try. french and russian had been having a go for some time prior.

and still murka couldn't fuck them.

[eldog]

That's fair. The US military didn't lose a major battle. The TV coverage of the Viet Cong running around the US Embassy during Tet 1968 rattled the people back home and the subsequent TV coverage caused the public and the politicians to lose faith. The north Vietnamese definitely won the propaganda war.

In the period following Tet though the Viet Cong were pretty much a spent force as they had suffered enormous casualties, but the NVA had moved south to take their place.

This is basically an account of the arrival of the NVA in an area of interest to the Australian and Kiwi troops. http://artilleryhistory.org/moments_in_history/on_this_day/1968/documents/real_story_of_fspb_coral_v7.pdf

A very interesting read.

[Akzle]

You lost me there. Was there a requirement for the AC to register themselves or their firearms?

It was basically open slather until the Russians frightened the pollies.

they were issued pistol, rifle and horse (all public property), it would have been registered.

1867, armed constabulary act. i'll look closer when i'm on a pc

[eldog]

and lest we forget america wasn't the first to try. french and russian had been having a go for some time prior.

and still murka couldn't fuck them.

They had plenty of practise and nothing to lose.

getting supplied underground ......

simple to operate weapons, not necessarily have to kill

[pritch]

and lest we forget america wasn't the first to try. french and russian had been having a go for some time prior.



The Russians? WTF have you been smoking lately? Before the French, the Vietnamese had been at war with the Chinese on and off for about a thousand years.

[Banditbandit]

it could be used in the comission of a crime.
consider yourself lucky you're not limited to 3 shot plugs. yet.

It's a six-shot - If I get caught with more than two in it when I'm shooting ducks I'll be in the shit ...

[Autech]

Anyway, it seems to me that the US has a real problem with their people that we in general don't, that is a mental health problem and their gun culture. They use phrases like "pulling the trigger" for the simple act of buying something, a sure sign that something is wrong with the whole mentality of the population. Of course they're not all like that, probably not that many are archetypal republican gun nuts, but they have a significant influence on the culture.

As for the pro side putting Mr Tipple on as spokesman doesn't do the pro side any favours.

Cheers

This

Americas gun culture is the problem, not the guns. But to educate them correctly they need legislation and to change their 2nd amendment. Spoke to a yank the other day and asked him if he found someone breaking into his house, who was not armed whether he would shoot him. He said "I'd empty my whole clip into him". What ever happened to not shooting an unarmed man?

It all stems from this: The fear campaign has every day Americans obsessed someone is going to break in at any minute to rape and pillage. Not true, but that kind of mentality would take it's toll eventually I reckon on your sanity. The fact that someone can buy an AR-15 with a 30mag clip only makes it that little bit easier, imagine trying to kill 26 people with a bolt action rifle? Not as easy.

[Akzle]

This

Americas gun culture is the problem, not the guns. But to educate them correctly they need legislation and to change their 2nd amendment.
that's it, huh? problem solved?
:weird:


Spoke to a yank the other day and asked him if he found someone breaking into his house, who was not armed whether he would shoot him. He said "I'd empty my whole clip into him". What ever happened to not shooting an unarmed man?
he didn't say "man" he said "thief"
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81KRiunNh%2BL._AC_UL320_SR216,320_.jpg
i tolerate thieves about as well as you might, having a dumptruck of offal hosed into your house.


. The fact that someone can buy an AR-15 with a 30mag clip only makes it that little bit easier, imagine trying to kill 26 people with a bolt action rifle? Not as easy.
oh please messiah-wIth-all-the-answers, what is a mag clip?
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/df/3a/71/df3a711a695c42863619780f221a642a--magazine-holders-magazine-racks.jpg

[Akzle]

The Russians? WTF have you been smoking lately?

some of those little toys from hungry jacks

[Akzle]

turns out pistols are the weapon of choice. most of their clipmags only hold like 10 or 15... <_<

https://kirbysandersbiz.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/weapons-used-in-contemporary-american-mass-shootings/

[pritch]

turns out pistols are the weapon of choice. most of their clipmags only hold like 10 or 15... <_<

https://kirbysandersbiz.wordpress.com/2012/12/18/weapons-used-in-contemporary-american-mass-shootings/

You guys are doing it again. Magclips? Clipmags? "Magazines" should do it.

Multiple magazines holding between a dozen and seventeen rounds each (without considering extended magazines) would hold a lot of ammunition.

[F5 Dave]

Can't we just all get along?:yes:

[Akzle]

You guys are doing it again. Magclips? Clipmags? "Magazines" should do it.

Multiple magazines holding between a dozen and seventeen rounds each (without considering extended magazines) would hold a lot of ammunition.

amateur
https://www.impactguns.com/Data/Default/Images/uploads/beta/beta_glock.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

I saw this today...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4veQxu-NWM

[pritch]

amateur
https://www.impactguns.com/Data/Default/Images/uploads/beta/beta_glock.jpg

There's a thing. Put one of those on one of these and you could shoot a lot of rabbits.

[jasonu]

amateur
https://www.impactguns.com/Data/Default/Images/uploads/beta/beta_glock.jpg

Nigger!!!!!

[awayatc]

amateur
https://www.impactguns.com/Data/Default/Images/uploads/beta/beta_glock.jpg

Dolly Parton was one of only a very few to successfully carry it concealed. .....

[Cosmik de Bris]

The fact that someone can buy an AR-15 with a 30mag clip only makes it that little bit easier, imagine trying to kill 26 people with a bolt action rifle? Not as easy.

Yes but instead of a bolt action you use a car or a bomb, there is always another mass murder device.

Cheers

[Akzle]

Dolly Parton was one of only a very few to successfully carry it concealed. .....

gee, i couldn't possibly see how
https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/RioPLHI3Xc_I1JUUGsTYvQ4QbT8/fit-in/550x550/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2017/01/29/140/n/1922398/200dd917588ea33b8a3e57.08052887_edit_img_image_845 315_1485741920/i/Dolly-Parton-2017-SAG-Awards-Video.jpg

[geoffm]

G
One idea that has been raised in the past which seems not unreasonable is registration of firearms to owners, it doesn't seem like a terrible plan to keep track of what's out there in the world, whether it would prevent anything bad from happening is a different matter altogether.

If you can persuade the crims to register their guns there may be a chance it will work.
Canada had registration and dropped it after it blew out to $2 billion. I am sure we can spend money on better things. It wont work any better here. The Police can't even track their won guns, leaving them in the Parliament toilets and 15 AR rifles on a front lawn recently. I can speak from experience that the register of B, C and E category guns that are registered (and have been since1920 in some cases) has errors.

[pritch]

The Police can't even track their won guns, leaving them in the Parliament toilets and 15 AR rifles on front lawn recently.

Yeah, two Police Glocks were stolen from the local courthouse where they had been stored in a much looser manner than any of us could get away with. That's more the fault of the Court than the cops but would not surprise me if other Police guns have gone missing but nobody said nowt.

[jafagsx250]

Yeah, two Police Glocks were stolen from the local courthouse where they had been stored in a much looser manner than any of us could get away with. That's more the fault of the Court than the cops but would not surprise me if other Police guns have gone missing but nobody said nowt.
A couple of official information act requests have been denied or "they don't keep records " or something else like operational security.

[geoffm]

Yeah, two Police Glocks were stolen from the local courthouse where they had been stored in a much looser manner than any of us could get away with. That's more the fault of the Court than the cops but would not surprise me if other Police guns have gone missing but nobody said nowt.

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/13/police-refuse-to-account-for-firearms-in-their-custody/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/02/police-refuse-to-answer-questions-relating-to-lost-guns/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/police-forget-fifteen-ar15-rifles/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/police-glock-lolly-scramble/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/08/18/mssa-rifles-still-not-a-concern/

[awayatc]

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/13/police-refuse-to-account-for-firearms-in-their-custody/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/02/police-refuse-to-answer-questions-relating-to-lost-guns/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/police-forget-fifteen-ar15-rifles/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/police-glock-lolly-scramble/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/08/18/mssa-rifles-still-not-a-concern/

Do as I say....

Not as I do.....

Hypocrites

[pritch]

https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/13/police-refuse-to-account-for-firearms-in-their-custody/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/11/02/police-refuse-to-answer-questions-relating-to-lost-guns/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/police-forget-fifteen-ar15-rifles/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/police-glock-lolly-scramble/
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/08/18/mssa-rifles-still-not-a-concern/

Thanks. Except that is even more depressing than I envisaged. I'm going to have another vinho tinto.

[awayatc]

Thanks. Except that is even more depressing than I envisaged. I'm going to have another vinho tinto.

Many moons ago in a faraway land I used to train armed offender popos .......

Very unimpressive it was at best

[Swoop]

Yeah, two Police Glocks were stolen from the local courthouse where they had been stored in a much looser manner than any of us could get away with. That's more the fault of the Court than the cops but would not surprise me if other Police guns have gone missing but nobody said nowt.

People would be "surprised" with the amount of pistols that have gone missing from police stations over the years...

[jasonu]

Many moons ago in a faraway land I used to train armed offender popos .......

Very unimpressive it was at best

I would say it is likely any average gun owner over here (like me for instance) would have more idea about gun safety, operation, maintenance and storage than most of UnZuds gun toting coppers.

[Berries]

And mass shootings?

[awayatc]

And mass shootings?

No that was Aramoana. ..near Dunedin

[roogazza]

you may laugh at this (or maybe not ?) but mid seventies I was working and a "Break" was reported from Wi tako prison Upper Hutt.
We were called back to the station to be armed.
A Smith & Wesson .38 and had to sign out 3 ,yes 3 rounds !!! had to sign them back in too. :laugh: Always remember that . I mean, I did get second in the pistol shoot in training, but 3 ???

Must admit I'd feel much better these days with a 17 shot Glock,might even be able to hit something hahahaha.

[Berries]

No that was Aramoana. ..near Dunedin
Which was kind of my point. That was 1990.

[FJRider]

And mass shootings?

Shooting Police is frowned on by the authorities too ... :blank:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Napier_shootings

[Flip]

I like all my E cats, civilian small arms lag behind military ones by about 30 years. It's just the technology getting better. Just wait until the military start using energy weapons and tll the fuss about MSSA will be forgotten.

[jafagsx250]

I like all my E cats, civilian small arms lag behind military ones by about 30 years. It's just the technology getting better. Just wait until the military start using energy weapons and tll the fuss about MSSA will be forgotten.
Doubt it. They'll want to go after them even if they are obsolete

[Cosmik de Bris]

Many moons ago in a faraway land I used to train armed offender popos .......

Very unimpressive it was at best

Yes indeed, they used our pistol club for training. They didn't like anyone watching and for good reason. They were there twice a year and fired about 50 rounds each time, most of the regular club members shot about 150 a week. I saw on fellow whip out his glock, rack the slide, the mag fell on the floor and he spent the next 15 minutes finding all the rounds.

Cheers

[jasonu]

Yes indeed, they used our pistol club for training. They didn't like anyone watching and for good reason. They were there twice a year and fired about 50 rounds each time, most of the regular club members shot about 150 a week. I saw on fellow whip out his glock, rack the slide, the mag fell on the floor and he spent the next 15 minutes finding all the rounds.

Cheers

How did any of the rounds come out of the magazine?

[pritch]

Yes indeed, they used our pistol club for training. They didn't like anyone watching and for good reason.

Ah yes. I watched one day and was singularly unimpressed. Having some spare time back then I offered, free of charge, a small remedial session for the ummm less talented. I was at that time Coaching Director, of a national shooting organisation so it wasn't some wild offer out of left field, and the officer to whom I spoke was aware of that. All I got was a blank stare. The problem shooters (mostly women) tend to dread their range days and that's a shame because for most it's unnecessary.

[Swoop]

Yes indeed, they used our pistol club for training.

Very unusual.
They are banned from using ranges around Auckland due to the amount of damage they cause.
Rounds fired in every direction, including into the overhead areas, over the top of the butts, etc, etc. Hence the had to go and build their own range in a built-up area of industrial Auckland.
The pistol clubs and military were very happy with this.

[caseye]

Very unusual.
They are banned from using ranges around Auckland due to the amount of damage they cause.
Rounds fired in every direction, including into the overhead areas, over the top of the butts, etc, etc. Hence the had to go and build their own range in a built-up area of industrial Auckland.
The pistol clubs and military were very happy with this.

They certainly were!
They used the range out at Wauiku for 3 go's before they boys gave them their marching orders, the dmage to equipment and property was incredible.

[Akzle]

pretty sure ardmore was closed down cos they kept shooting each other in the legs

[awayatc]

So the boys in blue overall appear to be not very good at shooting.....
Nor at driving .....
No wonder they don't want to let go of their radar gun.
It's bullet proof ( pun intended)

[Grumph]

People would be "surprised" with the amount of pistols that have gone missing from police stations over the years...

Back when there were still "cadets" in high schools, there were some big thefts of weapons from school armouries too. Mainly Lee-Enfields of course - the country was awash with those in the 50's. But when my high school in ChCh got raided it was reported they took two Lewis guns....I was in the cadets and didn't know we even had the things. Might have stayed if I'd known, LOL. Never recovered afaik.

[pritch]

pretty sure ardmore was closed down cos they kept shooting each other in the legs

That did happen here too, but I think the Ardmore decision was more about the military occupying it before the Govt decided to sell it off.

[Cosmik de Bris]

How did any of the rounds come out of the magazine?

Only a couple popped out but they have to account for every round they are issued with, I'm not sure he knew how many he had in the mag in the first place.

Cheers

[SPman]

So the boys in blue overall appear to be not very good at shooting.....
Nor at driving .....
No wonder they don't want to let go of their radar gun.
It's bullet proof ( pun intended)
Sounds the same over here - the local gun store/shooting range reckons the most handy with a weapon are the private armed security guards - he gives them a 9/10 for professionalism, safety, and competence. He gives the majority of the local popo 2/10 on a good day! The polis are all armed over here - scary.....

[Akzle]

Sounds the same over here - the local gun store/shooting range reckons the most handy with a weapon are the private armed security guards - he gives them a 9/10 for professionalism, safety, and competence. He gives the majority of the local popo 2/10 on a good day! The polis are all armed over here - scary.....

and for those of us who can't be fucked deciphering lat/long coordinates, that is where?

[TheDemonLord]

and for those of us who can't be fucked deciphering lat/long coordinates, that is where?

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/21st+St,+Pasay,+Metro+Manila,+Philippines/@14.528999,121.0131773,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x3397c936ba69fda7:0xf5ad1 bacec35970a!8m2!3d14.528999!4d121.015366?dcr=1

[Akzle]

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/21st+St,+Pasay,+Metro+Manila,+Philippines/@14.528999,121.0131773,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x3397c936ba69fda7:0xf5ad1 bacec35970a!8m2!3d14.528999!4d121.015366?dcr=1

you clearly missed the "can't be fucked" part.

[TheDemonLord]

you clearly missed the "can't be fucked" part.

*Snigger*

You said it...

*Snigger*

[awayatc]

and for those of us who can't be fucked deciphering lat/long coordinates, that is where?

In a country were you can shoot somebody if you believe he is a drug dealer.....