BUACA: Bikers United Against Child Abuse - Australia

[Spook]

In the USA the BACA, *(Bikers Against Child Abuse) BACA USA (http://www.bacausa.com) have been working successfully fighting against the abuse of American children for many years.
Now, in Australia, there is to be an inaugural meeting in mid Feb 2004, of those who are going to form the National BUACA in Australia, with the first Chapter to be formed in South Australia. The road ahead is not going to be easy, but we will prevail. Our basis is to raise awareness of Child Abuse in Australia, and to hold events and runs to raise funds to give to specific Charities and Organisations that fight child abuse. The current numbers of CHild Abuse in our country is Unacceptable. We intend to make a difference.

We hope to one day see every country have it's own Bikers United Against Child Abuse clubs and we invite our NZ Brothers to become involved in this great cause spreading world wide. Please be assured...We are not Vigilantes, and we are not an Outlaw club, and are recognised only by our Patch on the 'front' left hand side of our vest/jacket. http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/Springer/memberpatch1.jpg
This is the 'only' indication of an Australian Member/Associate/Supporter. Our Membership is a mix of everyday people from Truckies to Lawyers, Social Workers to Police, anyone who rides a Bike and is interested in helping children have the life they deserve.

For more information to Form, Join, or Support a Chapter visit BUACA Australia (http://www.geocities.com/buaca2003/index.html) or
SA BUACA (http://www.geocities.com/ozziesteve/)

Across this planet we have millions of people who ride a motorcycle, imagine the united power we could have to wipe the tears from an abused child and replace it with a smile as Bikers United Against Child Abuse.
Cmon, Show Your Support!

Respects
Steve K.
SA BUACA Australia
SA_BUACA@hotmail.com
buaca2003@yahoo.com.au

[jrandom]

Very noble and all, but I'm having difficulty figuring out how a bunch of middle-aged accountants riding around on Harleys are going to reduce child abuse.

Do the Unwashed Masses need such a gimmick before they'll consider supporting social organisations that may have some hope of affecting the behaviour of the criminal classes?

Maybe I just need to work on my cynicism.

[Ms Piggy]

I guess anything that raises the general publics awareness of an issue is great! I'd be into it if something like that was started here...must be the social worker in me! :niceone:

[Hitcher]

What's next??

Bikers
Upholding
Greenhouse
Gas
Emission
Regulations

I always thought it was the preserve of "Mothers" to be opposed to society's ills, preferably with a naff acronym (MADD, MADGE, etc). It now looks like bikers want to get in on the act. Sigh...

[Big Dog]

What's next??

Bikers
Upholding
Greenhouse
Gas
Emission
Regulations

I always thought it was the preserve of "Mothers" to be opposed to society's ills, preferably with a naff acronym (MADD, MADGE, etc). It now looks like bikers want to get in on the act. Sigh...
In the eighties we had visits from
Fathers
Against
Drink
Driving.

But think of these
Bikers
Against
Drink
Driving.

Bikers
Against
Genetic
Engineering

:scooter:

[bungbung]

B iker's
U lcers
R eally
G row,
E ating
R ubbish

[Spook]

Very noble and all, but I'm having difficulty figuring out how a bunch of middle-aged accountants riding around on Harleys are going to reduce child abuse.

Do the Unwashed Masses need such a gimmick before they'll consider supporting social organisations that may have some hope of affecting the behaviour of the criminal classes?

Maybe I just need to work on my cynicism.

Thanks Jrandom, Im sure Ill cop it from all sides, and that's ok. Those that belittle us don't change where we're headed. We expect knockers, but just not from the serious motorcycle riders we encounter. It's a hot topic and many people will question the thought of Motorbike riders, of a range of ages on motorcycles in unification taking a stance against kiddies being assaulted in diverse ways in our communities. For eg: It took Braveheart ( a child abuse social organisation in Queensland) 4 long years to battle the QLD government to take on and fund their recommendations. Well recently the QLD Gov decided to fund all 110 recommendations, ..four years! In that time Braveheart was struggling to make an impact, but were in their own small way. BUACA is about helping those that need it. If I can organise a run with 200 or 3000 or 10,000 people in SA for eg and raise funds while we have our fun on the run, then hand that cheque over to a deserving struggling organisation that helps kids, then that's what we're going to do. The last MRA Toy Run at Xmas had over 26,000 motorcyclists turn up and donate for the kids of SA. Pretty good support for a single event. BUACA is intending to have more events during the year in the same light.
Our Governments are not placing priorities into the abused children in our country and our courts are letting people get away with abuse of kids.
If we change ONE child's life by our actions then we've made a difference.
Please,......re-evaluate your cynicism and wonder 'what if' you were a part of making a change,..as small as it may be. Heck, you only have to buy a BUACA Tshirt to show your support and you have acted.

Very Noble indeed. Volunteering to get involved is just that.

[Big Dog]

How about this support group for red necks
F athers
U nder
C ontrol of the
K lan.

:yeah:

[Big Dog]

Please,......re-evaluate your cynicism and wonder 'what if' you were a part of making a change,..as small as it may be. Heck, you only have to buy a BUACA Tshirt to show your support and you have acted.

Very Noble indeed. Volunteering to get involved is just that.
You can have my support as soon as that support is going to New Zealand children. I beleive that there is no good done in sending aid overseas while there are still problems here in NZ.

Child abuse is probably the most noble cause around (defending those who can't defend themselves). Here in Nz we face two main problems.
Poor education on the topic means very few people see the signs, and that shame prevents people from coming forward if they do see them.
Fear has lear to over zealousness from those who are doing something, which often results in a witchhunt at the mere suggestion. This was the only I never became a teacher.

Because child abuse is so little understood a teacher can no longer give a child a hug when they hurt themselves in case it is misconstrued.
I'm going to stop there before I get to worked up and end up preaching to the choir. What would be involved in starting a chapter here?

[Spook]

You can have my support as soon as that support is going to New Zealand children. I beleive that there is no good done in sending aid overseas while there are still problems here in NZ.

Child abuse is probably the most noble cause around (defending those who can't defend themselves). Here in Nz we face two main problems.
Poor education on the topic means very few people see the signs, and that shame prevents people from coming forward if they do see them.
Fear has lear to over zealousness from those who are doing something, which often results in a witchhunt at the mere suggestion. This was the only I never became a teacher.

Because child abuse is so little understood a teacher can no longer give a child a hug when they hurt themselves in case it is misconstrued.
I'm going to stop there before I get to worked up and end up preaching to the choir. What would be involved in starting a chapter here?

We hope to one day see every country have it's own Bikers United Against Child Abuse clubs and we invite our NZ Brothers to become involved
You just said what I wanted to hear BigDog...a New Zealand BUACA.
So you take ownership, organise, form, and do it for your kids. Maybe your acronym experts can get you started NZBUACA? Has a nice ring to it....

To start a Chapter we'll email you, and I gather you are interested in forming a Chapter for NZ. Email me and Ill have one of our founders give you the info required to establish yourselves as, well, you need to work out NZBUACA? Get some people together and discuss. Believe me, it will snowball with support, so be prepared for that.

So, email me SA_BUACA@hotmail.com, and we'll go from there if that's what you want.

cheers and Respects
Spook

[Big Dog]

BUACANZ can actually be said.

[Spook]

BUACANZ can actually be said.


Agreed.... Im speaking to people this afternoon, I'll reply to your email with a rundown of things that have to be covered and then you can decide.


nice one BigDog,...ya got my vote!

[Motu]

Today a guy who beat his stepdaughter to death because she didn't want to go to school that day was sentenced - it's the tip of an iceberg that no one wants to look at...I sure avoid seeing or reading about such things,angry is a mere word.If you can help wake people up,go for it.

[Hitcher]

While this is a good initiative and child abuse is a heinous crime, effective action comes down to individual responsibility and a belief in creating communities that care for themselves and for each other. You can't solve child abuse by buying a T-shirt, just like you can't solve world hunger by dialling an 0900 number, going to a "Live Aid" concert or giving $1 a day to some worthy cause. Taking responsibility means taking action and getting involved -- personally. You.

If riding around with a badge on makes you feel good, then do it by all means. But remember you are relying on somebody else to do the doing for you -- The "Hire a Hubby" (rent a conscience) approach to community service.

[Dismounts hobby horse]

[Big Dog]

If you can help wake people up,go for it.
Apathy is only half the problem, there is also finding homes for survivors, having places for mothers/fathers trying to escape (womans refuge do a very important job but wheres the mens refuge?), legal support for fathers who beleive their exes new man is abusing?

An organisation like this will never on their own stop the problem but it could make life easier / better for survivors.

The government does not do enough. At the moment a victim is offered 10 sessions of counselling to cure a lifetime of hurt. And sentences are way to short. Why is it that a recidivist child molester gets less time than manslaughter? Manslaughter was after all accidental, molestation was with intent. :angry2:

Take a deep breath, 1....2.....3 :sleep:
Got to stop the lecturing :o

[Big Dog]

While this is a good initiative and child abuse is a heinous crime, effective action comes down to individual responsibility and a belief in creating communities that care for themselves and for each other. You can't solve child abuse by buying a T-shirt, just like you can't solve world hunger by dialling an 0900 number, going to a "Live Aid" concert or giving $1 a day to some worthy cause. Taking responsibility means taking action and getting involved -- personally. You.


If riding around with a badge on makes you feel good, then do it by all means. But remember you are relying on somebody else to do the doing for you -- The "Hire a Hubby" (rent a conscience) approach to community service.

[Dismounts hobby horse]
Well said young man. But community spirit/ direct support etc do require funding and profile.

[Spook]

While this is a good initiative and child abuse is a heinous crime, effective action comes down to individual responsibility and a belief in creating communities that care for themselves and for each other. You can't solve child abuse by buying a T-shirt, just like you can't solve world hunger by dialling an 0900 number, going to a "Live Aid" concert or giving $1 a day to some worthy cause. Taking responsibility means taking action and getting involved -- personally. You.

If riding around with a badge on makes you feel good, then do it by all means. But remember you are relying on somebody else to do the doing for you -- The "Hire a Hubby" (rent a conscience) approach to community service.

[Dismounts hobby horse]

Hitcher, while I support your right to your opinion, you seem to overlook that work that is being done while riding around with my Patch on feeling good. FUNDS, money, donations, sponsorship, cuppled with communities being encouraged to come out behind closed doors to the organisations we Support.
Dont know about you but I reckon what Ill be doing is feeling REALLY REALLY good about it all. And buying a Supporter patch or a Tshirt is funds, and funds are what the Government aren't giving enough to for the front line organisations that need it to operate effectively.
And yes I'll rely on a lot of people, my Brothers in BUACA, and I feel Support will be overwhelming, I dont think Ill be sitting on my ass somewhere thinking about it, but out there and doing it, while feeling good. Big Events, Poker Runs, Concerts with bands dont just happen, after 25years working in RockNRoll, I have a myriad of talent that want to play to BUACA supporters and everyone at large concerts. The idea is to Raise money and awareness for frontline organisations! You cant tell me that a Social Worker who happens to be a BUACANZ Member isnt direct support??

But Hitcher, you'd support the BUACANZ when it forms over there ...right?

[Big Dog]

[Dismounts hobby horse]
Hobby horse of mine too my freind. I don't have a lot of money so I only donate to really worthy causes not to send epsom girls pony club to the ukraine. My time is more valuable and productive. Being as you want to do something proactive (not just send a cheque) can I count on your help? :niceone:

[Gutter]

hey all

Just a quick note to say g'day for Aus and if support there is anything like here then BUACA will do well in NZ.

BUACA is there to help when it can, it is NOT the cure but in certain instances it can stop the disease.

It is the responsibility of evryone to protect our Children and it doesn't matter if that child is black, white, yellow, red or rainbow at the end of the day a kids a kid.

Good luck and I hope that those of you who wish to go the BUACA NZ road all the best. Drop me a line if you want to talk at length about BUACA at buaca2003@yahoo.com.au

Cheers
Gutter
BUACA
FERAL Chapter
Australia
Co-founder

[Nouseforaname]

"Coral Burrows' killer has been sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum non parole period of 15 years.

The six-year-old's stepfather, Steven Williams, has been sentenced today in the High Court at Wellington.

His early guilty plea - within 10 days of the murder - has been taken into account. "


Well whoop de f$%kin doo.... a whole non parole of 15 years... thats sick, he confessed, he admitted he was wrong, so why cant we just kill him? i mean it would be cheaper than paying for him to stay in prison....... but hey, i better shut - up before i start a whole death penelty debate

Spook - great idea, who cares what arguments people put before you, you have got ya heart in the right place and you get my vote! Good Luck to you!

[Jackrat]

I will be happy to support an NZ version of BUACA.

[Hitcher]

But Hitcher, you'd support the BUACANZ when it forms over there ...right?

I'd have a good look at its objectives and work programme first. I'm an outcomes kinda guy!

[Spook]

I'd have a good look at its objectives and work programme first. I'm an outcomes kinda guy!

And so you should be Hitcher....there's a temp website address (on my profile) setup till we settle a dot com, links to the temp national Site..feel free to peruse... any further questions you can email us.
Remembering,... if you get involved in the BUACANZ as a Member you get a say in how the club is run, your Constitution has to be drawn up and voted on and agreed on,, your ByLaws etc....and balanced against your state and Fed laws how the club runs itself. You see, in the good Ol USA, BACA Members can attend court in their cases involving Abused Kids, In Australia we can't....etc...see, lots ta think about, and if yure as switched on as I think you are, you'd be an asset to the formation of the BUACANZ.
Not withstanding, having your members undergo a Police check, we all gotta do,...not worried about petty stuff, but charges involving kiddies puts you outa the running to be involved....

...and it will be thankless work.........but we don't mind

All the best
Spook

[Ms Piggy]

I will be happy to support an NZ version of BUACA.

Me too :cool:

[mangell6]

Child abuse is an emotive subject like any abuse wether it be physical or emotional, the accused is always guilty until proven innocent. I am not saying that what is being proposed is right or wrong, I like Hitcher will need to review the basis that the organisation is set up and who/how it is run.
I have seen to many 'good idea' organisations get taken over by the extremists and destroyed.

Mike

[James Deuce]

Child abuse is an emotive subject like any abuse wether it be physical or emotional, the accused is always guilty until proven innocent. I am not saying that what is being proposed is right or wrong, I like Hitcher will need to review the basis that the organisation is set up and who/how it is run.
I have seen to many 'good idea' organisations get taken over by the extremists and destroyed.

Mike


Hear Hear.

[Draco]

If this is indeed a reputable organisation that is well run and achieves its objectives (ie raising public awareness and raising funds for worthwhile organisations) then i'm definately interested. Hitcher i understand why your sceptical (life has a habit of making cynics out of us) this could be a crock and a bunch of vigilanties OR it could be worthwhile. I have served the Order of St John for 12 years, most of it as a volunteer, and the word "volunteer" seems to somehow make people assume your a bunch of do-gooders who want to "wear a patch and feel good about themselves". But let me assure you that i know the Order does so much for OUR community, some of it known and recognised and some of it not. And I will be proud for the rest of my life at my involvement and I KNOW i've made a difference in many peoples lives, the wonderful cards ive received and just the look on peoples faces tells me so. So if this BUACA is legit, I think it's worth supporting (in our own country) despite any bagging it may get.

[Hitcher]

If this is indeed a reputable organisation that is well run and achieves its objectives (ie raising public awareness and raising funds for worthwhile organisations) then i'm definately interested. Hitcher i understand why your sceptical (life has a habit of making cynics out of us) this could be a crock and a bunch of vigilanties OR it could be worthwhile. I have served the Order of St John for 12 years, most of it as a volunteer, and the word "volunteer" seems to somehow make people assume your a bunch of do-gooders who want to "wear a patch and feel good about themselves". But let me assure you that i know the Order does so much for OUR community, some of it known and recognised and some of it not. And I will be proud for the rest of my life at my involvement and I KNOW i've made a difference in many peoples lives, the wonderful cards ive received and just the look on peoples faces tells me so. So if this BUACA is legit, I think it's worth supporting (in our own country) despite any bagging it may get.

Mate, I hope you haven't misunderstood what I was saying. People who put their bodies on the line for what they believe in -- St John zambucks included -- get the Big Tick from me. My point was more aimed at the people who think that making a $5 donation is all that it takes. I wasn't endeavouring to bag worthy causes or those who give up large chunks of their lives to advance these. I was having a go more at consumerism and where it it taking us all...

[Firefight]

I have served the Order of St John for 12 years, most of it as a volunteer, and the word "volunteer" seems to somehow make people assume your a bunch of do-gooders who want to "wear a patch and feel good about themselves". But let me assure you that i know the Order does so much for OUR community, some of it known and recognised and some of it not. And I will be proud for the rest of my life at my involvement and I KNOW i've made a difference in many peoples lives, the wonderful cards ive received and just the look on peoples faces tells me so.

From Firefight:: :Offtopic: , oh yep there it is.
I can't find the "off topic'' smiley, I am going to hyjack this thread, to take the opportunity to Commend you and the thousands of others like you Draco, who serve NZ as Volly fire/ambulance officers, It does not matter to the person whos hurt or house is on fire, if the person coming to help them is paid or doing it for free.All they want is someone to come.

You have every reason to Feel Proud of the work that you did for those 12 years,I remember when I became a professional fire fighter (paid) many years ago thinking how lucky I was to be able to have an exciting job, help people, and get paid, then as the years go bye you learn that NZ does not have the infrstructure to pay for that service for every area.

If it was not for the commitment and dedication of people like your self, who freely give of their time, and in the case of self employed people money lost by attending calls, NZ would not have the standard of emergancy medical care and Urgent fire related services that we have.

Well Done.

Firefight

[Indiana_Jones]

good on ya, but your not one of those people against spanking now are you?
As spanking is ok, not abuse though :mad:

-Indy

[bluninja]

good on ya, but your not one of those people against spanking now are you?
As spanking is ok, not abuse though :mad:

-Indy
Hmmmmm...debatable......probably just means a temporary loss of control...or the parent don't have a wide enough range of skills. Certainly don't think this should be illegal, or politicians should spend time looking at it. I think it's fair enough for organisations to show better alternatives and educate people so that they can choose the best parenting ways for themselves and their children that work.

[Ms Piggy]

My point was more aimed at the people who think that making a $5 donation is all that it takes. I wasn't endeavouring to bag worthy causes or those who give up large chunks of their lives to advance these. I was having a go more at consumerism and where it it taking us all...

Totally agree with you Hitcher - the people that are all talk and no action or as you've said that "give" a minimum and think they're done their bit peeve me off. And then as Draco pointed out you get good groups taken over by nut jobs.

You've gotta be very analytical and critcal before giving support aye. :yes:

[Hitcher]

good on ya, but your not one of those people against spanking now are you?
As spanking is ok, not abuse though :mad:

-Indy


Don't go there people, please...

[mangell6]

And why not?

[Spook]

I pleased to see a few people at least discussing BUACA, or BUACANZ with interest,. Careful consideration is given to Membership programs that,..'filter' those who wish to represent BUACA here in Australia and in fact anywhere in the world for eg: full Police record checking. We have a mixture of members, we have Police, Social people, Media people, cooks, .......and so on. The idea that we're to be 'hijacked' by extremists is apathetic socio-phobic misInformation. You havent taken the time to LOOK at the available info.

Let me feed this to you straight, it's volunteer, none of us make a single dime,..it's my money outa My pocket to pay for my fuel, my time, everything I will do for BUACA I will do because "I want to" without looking for thanks. Our Meetings will have members pay for attending, that's where we get social money set aside to help Members if need be.....

The American BACA is highly interested as we are to spread BACA, BUACA, worldwide. As we speak Canada BACA is forming. The club will be looking for switched on, caring people that give a shit about the continued Attack on our kids life,..we're tired of waiting for half our assed idiot Governments to yawn and do nothing....
And as for VIGILANTES, No one said we were ALL Angels, give me a break.......if that's what we were all about, then we wouldn't last three days on the street, and I wouldnt be here telling you about it on a public forum,... so please ease up on the bullshit and Keep It real.....

...If anyone thinks they're joining BACA, BUACA, BACA Can BUACA NZ, to be some kind of badass who rides around tracking down and beating up the bad guys, then you are in the wrong club and You will be expelled from associating with the club. Not a good position to be in considering the hard work people are putting in.

I expected the questions here, but not the apathy. And if you must be negative, give valid reasoning. It suprises me, really! We are about change to a kids life, and if you've got better things to do,..then go do them....Mind you, badmouthing BACA, or BUACA and or the BUACA NZ is simply being nieve,<<TYPO apathetic, & immature, and is no excuse for being flat out ignorant. Maybe Ive come to the wrong Forum to reach NZ like minded serious motorcycling individuals that care about helping the kids that are being beaten and raped in their community, MAYBE even next door to you? The social organisations out there that help these kids (cant believe Im repeating myself) need help.
Some of you continue wanting to see explantions for what it's all about, If you had READ previous emails there are plenty of offers and leads to get such info. It appears those questioning this have not yet even bothered to do their research. Cmon lads, it aint that hard.....!

I thank all of those NZ bods out there *(and there's been plenty) that have already contacted US for information. I see you smiling at me for spitting the proverbial dummy because YOU already know what is going on...thanks for taking the time to become informed.

We expect to shake up people who are 'not' against Child Abuse, We scare the pants off them and we will flush them out into the open without really doing much more than existing, its quite fascinating to see it happening. Children may be afraid, but attackers of children are even even more afraid that BUACA will expose them. ..................and we will.................one day.

that;s a wrap, my work here is done

thanks Folks..... stay upright ok




*(cant wait to see the replies I get to this one) :p

[James Deuce]

IP addresses in NZ are generally assigned via a "pool" of addresses, so you will be able to ID the ISP, but potentially not the user unless the ISP co-operates. Fixed IP addresses cost a significant amount of money over a standard plan, and are generally only purchased by companies in NZ. I'm sorry if the individual that behaved badly came from our community.

Unfortunately that latest rant of yours put me off completely. Knowingly entering into a post on BB with the purpose of gathering outraged responses is considered bad form in most parts of the world. It's called a troll. I'm referring to the postscript at the end of your last message.

Oh and "naive", not "neive".

So if I don't agree with your crusade I'm not against child abuse?

I'm most certainly against sweeping statements.

Here's my rant:

There are a vast array of causes and plights that "shakedown" genuine caring people for loose change, and I don't see your attitude as being any different. And yes I visited your site. I just don't think you represent your membership very well.

I will help someone directly. I will not do it through an agency. History and Human Nature should have taught you that when 3 or more people get together, group politics generally subverts the cause, and some dishonest bastard is stealing money for personal gain from the organisation.

You say on one hand that "...joining BACA, BUACA, BACA Can BUACA NZ, to be some kind of badass who rides around tracking down and beating up the bad guys, .." is not acceptable to your organisation, then manage to insert a veiled threat at the end of the post that IMHO subtly contradicts that sentiment; "Children may be afraid, but attackers of children are even even more afraid that BUACA will expose them. ..................and we will.................one day."

I don't like being threatened or pressured just because I ride a 'bike and you think I should belong to your organisation and I will be a lesser human being because I won't. Rightly or wrongly that is the message I am getting from your posts.

Your orginal approach was good, but you've done yourself a disservice as time has gone on.

I'd like to point out that this post is all mine. I don't claim to represent KiwiBiker or anyone who posts here. I am clear on one thing though. I don't like right-wing, "socially responsible" vigilante groups that use bullying tactics, either violent or non-violent.

Jim2

[Spook]

IP addresses in NZ are generally assigned via a "pool" of addresses, so you will be able to ID the ISP, but potentially not the user unless the ISP co-operates. Fixed IP addresses cost a significant amount of money over a standard plan, and are generally only purchased by companies in NZ. I'm sorry if the individual that behaved badly came from our community.

Unfortunately that latest rant of yours put me off completely. Knowingly entering into a post on BB with the purpose of gathering outraged responses is considered bad form in most parts of the world. It's called a troll. I'm referring to the postscript at the end of your last message.

Oh and "naive", not "neive".

So if I don't agree with your crusade I'm not against child abuse?

I'm most certainly against sweeping statements.

Here's my rant:

There are a vast array of causes and plights that "shakedown" genuine caring people for loose change, and I don't see your attitude as being any different. And yes I visited your site. I just don't think you represent your membership very well.

I will help someone directly. I will not do it through an agency. History and Human Nature should have taught you that when 3 or more people get together, group politics generally subverts the cause, and some dishonest bastard is stealing money for personal gain from the organisation.

You say on one hand that "...joining BACA, BUACA, BACA Can BUACA NZ, to be some kind of badass who rides around tracking down and beating up the bad guys, .." is not acceptable to your organisation, then manage to insert a veiled threat at the end of the post that IMHO subtly contradicts that sentiment; "Children may be afraid, but attackers of children are even even more afraid that BUACA will expose them. ..................and we will.................one day."

I don't like being threatened or pressured just because I ride a 'bike and you think I should belong to your organisation and I will be a lesser human being because I won't. Rightly or wrongly that is the message I am getting from your posts.

Your orginal approach was good, but you've done yourself a disservice as time has gone on.

I'd like to point out that this post is all mine. I don't claim to represent KiwiBiker or anyone who posts here. I am clear on one thing though. I don't like right-wing, "socially responsible" vigilante groups that use bullying tactics, either violent or non-violent.

Jim2


but potentially not the user unless the ISP co-operates.
*sigh, gee thanks.

ok..

See, causing even negative replies is great. We can sit here and outwit each other for days. AM I being blamed for not be an Academic? Sounds like it. Not putting across my points, in YOUR view correctly as an educated man? Appears so. I think people will understand where its coming from rather than expect every sentence to be politically correct and written by a scientist.

But I have more important things to say than surgically detail a reply here, nor incite "innuendo" as you have. But you've slid neatly over the point. And that's fine, this isnt for everyone. No one said it was. This is hard stuff to deal with and I understand your negative analysis, apart from pointing out my TYPOS. You have done nothing, very well . But it appears it's not anything you are likely to be involved in, in the future. I dont think many people with your train of thought WILL become involved. This is not an ordinary ask. We expect extra ordinary people, please dont be angry at ME for your failings to understand HOW Ive explained all this. In fact it goes beyond that, and I understand you not being able to deal with it, but please..leave my TYPOS alone that's not going to win you points for picking on my grammatical skills *(is that how you spell it?)./....................I try

Your opinions are noted. Not taken on board at all, but noted. I do worry about many things, just not any of your points to which you manage to 'spin'. NOTE*
This is the first person to suggest 'right wing' social comments, anything else, .....Nazis?. So far three of us have bald heads. Are you going to stereotype not only my typing abilities but appearance as well?? Re-read your DIKSHUNARY and determine why you want to play with RW comments. Not necessary really...the war is over. The war for the kids has just begun, and no one has asked you specifically to get involved.

You sir, do not understand what's happening out there with the kids, I noticed you glossed over the main points yet felt it better to attack me personally, and that's ok, I expect it and dont care if you whine against the BUACA.

And finally I dont think having certain people fall into focus through the email I received who claims to be from this site, was, as you term a veiled threat,.... is anything to be concerned over. Receiving threats via email IS against the Law, read it closer.

People will stuff it up all by themselves.Whilst... We'll be there to help the kids. You can knock me down here, but another will get up in my place, and so on, because we care about our kids.

onya
Spook

......typos?

[bluninja]

You started well, but you seem to be taking the wheels off all on your own. Your last post makes an implication that bikers on this forum who wouldn't want to join or contribute to BUACA are somehow diminished because of your just cause.

I applaud your efforts to raise funds and awareness to support those people at the sharp end of child welfare and safety. However yours is not the only way, nor is it IMHO the best way; but it is part of an overall process.

It is sad that an individual has taken it upon themselves to misbehave on your sites; but come on, your a grown up.....you should be able to deal with this. Surely YOU are not naieve as to think there aren't people out there that will do almost anything for attention including vandalising, hijacking, ot trolling on sites.

[Spook]

You started well, but you seem to be taking the wheels off all on your own. Your last post makes an implication that bikers on this forum who wouldn't want to join or contribute to BUACA are somehow diminished because of your just cause.

I applaud your efforts to raise funds and awareness to support those people at the sharp end of child welfare and safety. However yours is not the only way, nor is it IMHO the best way; but it is part of an overall process.

It is sad that an individual has taken it upon themselves to misbehave on your sites; but come on, your a grown up.....you should be able to deal with this. Surely YOU are not naieve as to think there aren't people out there that will do almost anything for attention including vandalising, hijacking, ot trolling on sites.

wheels off? ...you crack me up :)

These kind of replies are to be expected. But I expected more since this started. Only three really negative replies so far and all highly ambiguous? When we get to a couple of thousand, maybe, we'd have a point of view that represents NZ Bikers. and,..Im in no hurry...
I mean look at the facts.....nearly 400 views on this thread and only 38 replies...

Cmon people get in here and have an opinion!!

"child abuse ignored is child abuse"



Spook
SA BUACA
AUSTRALIA

[Motu]

Rereading this thread I see no mugu or magu has posted - I hope this is not another of your typos.This is my second post on this thread - I hope no one thinks I am who you are trying to mention,spelling can be important sometimes.

[Spook]

Rereading this thread I see no **** or ***** has posted - I hope this is not another of your typos.This is my second post on this thread - I hope no one thinks I am who you are trying to mention,spelling can be important sometimes.

Sorry Motu....it was referred to as an email I received personally, and I guess there's a few Nutters out there we'll have to contend with.....

And due to your comments Ill blank the comments used.....and my typos aint that bad.....are they?

cheers
Spook

[Spook]

IP addresses in NZ are generally assigned via a "pool" of addresses, so you will be able to ID the ISP, but potentially not the user unless the ISP co-operates.

That's ok, we know that

Unfortunately that latest rant ??? rant?? of yours put me off completely. Knowingly entering into a post on BB with the purpose of gathering outraged responses is considered bad form in most parts of the world. It's called a troll. I'm referring to the postscript at the end of your last message.

Oh and "naive", not "neive".<<<My typos :stupid:

So if I don't agree with your crusade *(??) I'm not against child abuse?
Hey Jimmy, CHild Abuse ignored IS child abuse mate

I'm most certainly against sweeping *(??) statements.

Here's my rant:

There are a vast array of causes and plights that "shakedown" genuine caring people for loose change, and I don't see your attitude as being any different.
*shakedown? And yes I visited your site. I just don't think you represent your membership very well. *Why, you dont say why or how?

I will help someone directly. I will not do it through an agency. History and Human Nature should have taught you that when 3 or more people get together, group politics generally subverts the cause, and some dishonest bastard is stealing money for personal gain from the organisation.
*Give an example of this Jim, yure not backing up your statements.....umm, this is an over 18 Forum right? .

You say on one hand that "...joining BACA, BUACA, BACA Can BUACA NZ, to be some kind of badass who rides around tracking down and beating up the bad guys, .." is not acceptable to your organisation, then manage to insert a veiled threat at the end of the post that IMHO subtly contradicts that sentiment; "Children may be afraid, but attackers of children are even even more afraid that BUACA will expose them. ..................and we will.................one day." *Jim, that's isnt a threat, ...it's a Promise

I don't like being threatened *aren't we having fun yet? or pressured just because I ride a 'bike and you think I should belong to your organisation and I will be a lesser human being because I won't. Rightly or wrongly that is the message I am getting from your posts. *Sorry Jim, I dont remembering telling you to do anything

I'd like to point out that this post is all mine. *Im impressed I don't claim to represent KiwiBiker or anyone who posts here. I am clear on one thing though. I don't like right-wing, "socially responsible" vigilante groups that use bullying tactics, either violent or non-violent.

Jim2

gotta agree with you there on the last point,..but that's the only one.... it's all a little ambiguous.....Jim.....however,...can you name one group that represents that.

You've made plenty of statements with simply NO information to back your claims.....please reiterate (is that how you spell it?)


Im sorry if I appear a little,......................harsh,
Spook

[wkid_one]

Jim - I hope you have 10 pound line and a good reel on....this ones a fighter

[wkid_one]

IP addresses in NZ are generally assigned via a "pool" of addresses, so you will be able to ID the ISP, but potentially not the user unless the ISP co-operates. Fixed IP addresses cost a significant amount of money over a standard plan, and are generally only purchased by companies in NZ.
IP addresses are only granted as fixed on broadbank internet services - not dialup.

[bluninja]

wheels off? ...you crack me up :)

These kind of replies are to be expected. But I expected more since this started. Only three really negative replies so far? When we get to a couple of thousand, maybe, we'd have a point of view that represents NZ Bikers. and,..Im in no hurry...
I mean look at the facts.....nearly 400 views on this thread and only 38 replies...

Cmon people get in here and have an opinion!!

"child abuse ignored is child abuse"



Spook
SA BUACA
AUSTRALIA
Spook, glad I am cracking you up :innocent: Yes 400 views but only 38 replies. The question may be what prevents these watchers from posting their opinion? Or is it the same sad person viewing over and over (we had another troll who claimed there were only 15 people that posted on this whole site).

I certainly don't ignore child abuse and I have had to deal with the results of serious neglect and child abuse by others to others. So please don't even go there.


We expect to shake up people who are 'not' against Child Abuse, We scare the pants off them and we flush them out into the open without really doing much more than existing, its quite fascinating. Children may be afraid, but attackers of children are even even more afraid that BUACA will expose them
So who are these people 'not' against child abuse?(apart from paedophiles)

Do you know that most child abuse starts with a parent trying to teach a child a lesson, perhaps put a little fear into them? What lesson do you think your ''scare the pants off them" approach will give? it's the same lesson an abused child gets....if you are bigger and stronger you can instill fear because of the power you wield, and what you can(do?) do. I notice that this isn't even directed at child abusers. This is not the way to protect children or make a significant change long term.

PS interesting that you edited your first reply...you certainly aren't a poet:finger:

[James Deuce]

Jim - I hope you have 10 pound line and a good reel on....this ones a fighter

Dude!! - I'm gonna need the REALLY BIG pliers to get the hook out! The Leatherman just won't cut it.

[wkid_one]

My thoughts for those that give a fuck.

Great idea - but - why Child Abuse?? We could end up with Bikers Against Child Abuse, Bikers Against Drunk Driving??

I think any fight against Child Abuse is a great idea - I just question 'why bikers?'. This makes limited sense to me.

I think you would struggle to find many people who were FOR child abuse, mental, emotional or physical. I just can't tie a link from Biking to Child Abuse? Maybe there doesn't need to be a link - I don't know?

Also - what does this achieve - what are the outcomes? Is the effort worth the reward (some would argue any return is better than none)? Is the 'biking voice' a big enuf voice to make any ripples on the pond.

[Spook]

Spook, glad I am cracking you up :innocent: Yes 400 views but only 38 replies. The question may be what prevents these watchers from posting their opinion? Or is it the same sad person viewing over and over (we had another troll who claimed there were only 15 people that posted on this whole site).

I certainly don't ignore child abuse and I have had to deal with the results of serious neglect and child abuse by others to others. So please don't even go there.


So who are these people 'not' against child abuse?(apart from paedophiles)

Do you know that most child abuse starts with a parent trying to teach a child a lesson, perhaps put a little fear into them? What lesson do you think your ''scare the pants off them" approach will give? it's the same lesson an abused child gets....if you are bigger and stronger you can instill fear because of the power you wield, and what you can(do?) do. I notice that this isn't even directed at child abusers. This is not the way to protect children or make a significant change long term.

PS interesting that you edited your first reply...you certainly aren't a poet:finger:
Were you sitting there waiting for me? :p

well okay Ill concede the Poet side, but that's it.
Now Jim...

Look, perception as to how you see MY writing and how, or if leads to a specific Paradigm of Child Abuse??? That's a 'bit' specific, lets try and look at the BIGGER picture ok,..for a second, I know you dont like to but hang on fer a sec ,,,,
, let me see, you expect it to point at Paedophiles *(not Pedo :) ). But, Anything that exists that works towards Child Abuse has it's imperceptible positive reactions within some socio-economic areas. It also has very deep ramifications within some communities. But you're dragging me off into Social topics, and I cant claim to give an expert opinion on that,..but I will get an expert opinion, IF you email all your concerns, Ill send them on to a person close to BUACA and have an answer in that area for you. How's that....at least Im fair, and know when you're asking something of me that needs expert opinion...we're growing too, we take on board all interesting points of view...

Now to deal with people not responding, as I said.....before....this isnt going to raise everyones eyebrow and have them come into this with an opinion,..the reason Im interested in YOU is because you HAVE. Simple. Im not here to 'shake' you down for your money, Im not even asking you PERSONALLY to become part of any organisation OR club...right....but when you come up with points you dont substantiate, I have to question why...tell me why the website is non representative for a start..if you give VALID comments, I guarantee you we will be interested.

ok..I need a smoke and a rest,...and I havent checked my typos yet so...bear with me..

Spook

[James Deuce]

gotta agree with you there on the last point,..but that's the only one.... it's all a little ambiguous.....Jim.....however,...can you name one group that represents that.

You've made plenty of statements with simply NO information to back your claims.....please reiterate (is that how you spell it?)


Im sorry if I appear a little,......................harsh,
Spook

It's not harsh - it's precisely the kind of reply I expected. I never suggested that child abuse is not a social problem of a huge magnitude. I just don't like your approach.

Don't call me Jimmy.

[bluninja]

My thoughts for those that give a fuck.

Great idea - but - why Child Abuse?? We could end up with Bikers Against Child Abuse, Bikers Against Drunk Driving??

I think any fight against Child Abuse is a great idea - I just question 'why bikers?'. This makes limited sense to me.

I think you would struggle to find many people who were FOR child abuse, mental, emotional or physical. I just can't tie a link from Biking to Child Abuse? Maybe there doesn't need to be a link - I don't know?

Also - what does this achieve - what are the outcomes? Is the effort worth the reward (some would argue any return is better than none)? Is the 'biking voice' a big enuf voice to make any ripples on the pond.
Don't forget Bikers Against Abortion....people would flock to that one:yeah:

WKID FWIW I think even special interest voices will make enough ripples when added up together. There will be thousands out this weekend on the Westpac run...and that's a big ripple through Auckland.

[Spook]

Don't forget Bikers Against Abortion....people would flock to that one:yeah:

WKID FWIW I think even special interest voices will make enough ripples when added up together. There will be thousands out this weekend on the Westpac run...and that's a big ripple through Auckland.

Yes, Bikers across this planet IS a big enough voice to make a difference

[Spook]

It's not harsh - it's precisely the kind of reply I expected. I never suggested that child abuse is not a social problem of a huge magnitude. I just don't like your approach.

Don't call me Jimmy.

Ok JIM, I reiterate...NOONE is asking you PERSONALLY to do anything. You make it sound like I got ya hogtied and signed up....Noone said 'we' were little sobby Angels and do-gooders, ..we're Bikers,...I thought the title would have given you that hint? No one is asking you to like the approach, doesnt feel harsh to me...and when you DO say no and turn your back on this,..50, 60, 100 more Will step up and take your place.. and Ill smile everytime I meet a new member.....

it's simple logic...

I hate Child Abuse SO much, that Im willing to make a stand, no matter what it takes to voice it, until Governments give up hiding facts,.....until we make a change in attitudes, until those that harm kids, go to jail and stay there.....and if that pisses you OFF, then welcome to the real world
All I gotta hear is,..This aint for you....right...just say it, and let it go.....no matter what YOU think.....it doesnt change the fact that Bikers United Against CHild Abuse are going to make a difference........in a big way! That's a Promise.

You know,..we're only JUST getting started in this debate, Im not leaving here until we have hundreds of opinions, ...hundreds.... stick around and see what comes of it....

[bluninja]

Spook, sorry...what points didn't I substantiate? Please be more specific and I can respond in a way that helps you.

I have been to the BUACA site. I too am passionate about the welfare and safety of children....and I whilst I support your right to do your part the way you believe is best, I will put across my position if I think you are weakening the fight against child abuse.....this is just a variation of your "ignoring child abuse is child abuse"

Two specifics. Your logo/patch. What were you (or whoever designed it) thinking using a 'clenched fist punching through' for your logo/patch? Think about what that symbol represents to an abused child. It is a symbol of force and violence. The abused child has probably seen a clenched fist for real far too many times.

Why do the bikers have to ride 750cc and above to be a member? What does that have to do with promoting the protection of children? So a biker, say on a 400cc bike, can't combine his/her passion for riding with a desire to help children.

In my post I made an assumption that paedophiles are automatically child abusers....I asked who are the others 'not' against child abuse? As in...I was asking for specifics, and substantiation.

[Spook]

Spook, sorry...what points didn't I substantiate? Please be more specific and I can respond in a way that helps you.

I have been to the BUACA site. I too am passionate about the welfare and safety of children....and I whilst I support your right to do your part the way you believe is best, I will put across my position if I think you are weakening the fight against child abuse.....this is just a variation of your "ignoring child abuse is child abuse"

Two specifics. Your logo/patch. What were you (or whoever designed it) thinking using a 'clenched fist punching through' for your logo/patch? Think about what that symbol represents to an abused child. It is a symbol of force and violence. The abused child has probably seen a clenched fist for real far too many times.

Why do the bikers have to ride 750cc and above to be a member? What does that have to do with promoting the protection of children? So a biker, say on a 400cc bike, can't combine his/her passion for riding with a desire to help children.

In my post I made an assumption that paedophiles are automatically child abusers....I asked who are the others 'not' against child abuse? As in...I was asking for specifics, and substantiation.

Lets start at the beginning, have you gone and looked at the first website I offered for info? ....half of these questions would have been answered. Please GO there then come back with the questions left over after you've gathered the info you seek.... I HATE TYPING when info is available... and not even you are going to get me to type it all out here...sorry...youve seen how good my typos are and you want me to......NM

As for the Logo, there are reason you'll see on the site.....and point taken BUT...........
As for further membership details, you are right about a few points, and this Feb, in SA they will be relaxed as you so rightly pointed out, but we needed to start somewhere, the consitiution was the toughest,..and still up for discussion...but that is dependant on where you live and your laws. Do you see someone on a Moped coming with us 4,500kms on the National run? There's reasons for something that we just have to have....

....ok

and for any future comments, please feel free to go to our websites for information.....if you arent happy with that,..email us!

[bluninja]

Lets start at the beginning, have you gone and looked at the first website I offered for info? ....no because if you did half of these questions wouldnt have been raised. GO there then come back with the questions left over after you've gathered the info you seek.... I HATE TYPING when info is available... and not even you are going to get me to type it all out here...



....ok
Ok been to the US site. They don't specify 750cc just have a bike or regular access.

As for the rest; wished I read this first. I can't support your intiative at all. I would urge others to have a look at your site and decide for themselves. BACA's modus operandi and the way it works are directed at threats external to the family. Like it or not most child abuse is perpetrated within the family/friend circle, where your interventions couldn't succeed.

This IS a vigilante organisation. An implied threat is still a threat. "I am not alone, and you don't want to mess with my family". The intervention takes place whilst the 'official' process is going through.

As far as the patch goes...it's still a symbol of violence....it has no place in any organisation working towards removing any form of abuse.

[Spook]

Ok been to the US site. They don't specify 750cc just have a bike or regular access.

As for the rest; wished I read this first. I can't support your intiative at all. I would urge others to have a look at your site and decide for themselves. BACA's modus operandi and the way it works are directed at threats external to the family. Like it or not most child abuse is perpetrated within the family/friend circle, where your interventions couldn't succeed.

This IS a vigilante organisation. An implied threat is still a threat. "I am not alone, and you don't want to mess with my family". The intervention takes place whilst the 'official' process is going through.

As far as the patch goes...it's still a symbol of violence....it has no place in any organisation working towards removing any form of abuse.

Christ, Im surrounded by people not paying attention. The BACA site you looked at is based on AMERICAN LAW! not Australia, we haven't even finished the AUSTRALIAN rules set against Australian Law and Bylaws... you're really not paying attention are you. Told you, they need switched on people, not someone who reads the surface and makes idiot judgement.

And again, thankyou for your interest,...next..

[bluninja]

Christ, Im surrounded by people not paying attention. The BACA site you looked at is based on AMERICAN LAW! not Australia, we haven't even finished the AUSTRALIAN rules set against Australian Law and Bylaws... you're really not paying attention are you. Told you, they need switched on people, not someone who reads the surface and makes idiot judgement.

And again, thankyou for your interest,...next..
Come back when (if?) you've got your shit fully together....probably never.

What is the point of referring someone to a site that is not reflective of what you are doing?....err plan to do?....hold on you've just got a website.....whoops 2 websites...and they're not complete......you're making it up as you go along. You're seem as much a cowboy as the americans you are aping....except they allow all bikes....not just ones over 750 cc.

These are rhetorical questions ....you don't have to answer....but I forgot you are all about rhetoric:moon:

[wkid_one]

I agree with Blue.

I am going to start Bikers Against Bikes......my website is www.bikersAbikers.co.nz.....go there

[wkid_one]

Christ, Im surrounded by people not paying attention. The BACA site you looked at is based on AMERICAN LAW! not Australia, we haven't even finished the AUSTRALIAN rules set against Australian Law and Bylaws... you're really not paying attention are you. Told you, they need switched on people, not someone who reads the surface and makes idiot judgement.

And again, thankyou for your interest,...next..
Um - shouldn't you come back ONCE you have your Bylaws sorted??? Really, this is like asking someone to vote for something without all the information - like MMP - and look how successful that was. Everyone said yes, and it was an unmitigated disaster......Maybe I should start Bikers Against MMP?

[Big Dog]

Um - shouldn't you come back ONCE you have your Bylaws sorted??? Really, this is like asking someone to vote for something without all the information - like MMP - and look how successful that was. Everyone said yes, and it was an unmitigated disaster......Maybe I should start Bikers Against MMP?
WTF?????????
Last I heard all he was looking for was an expression of interest.

I for one want to see how things shape up.

How did this get from a request for expressions of interest to the public lynching above?

Clearly spook is not the most eloquant of spokesman, this does not make his cause trivial.

I voted against MMP. Nobody listened to me then either.

The one down side to the Dis/Reputrable memebers list is that certain members are doing there best to spark controversy just to get one of the now coveted three spots.

Surely if you are not interested in contributing in a positive manner the least you could do is say "Not my cup of tea!" and unsubscribe this thread.

[bluninja]

WTF?????????
Last I heard all he was looking for was an expression of interest.

I for one want to see how things shape up.

How did this get from a request for expressions of interest to the public lynching above?

Clearly spook is not the most eloquant of spokesman, this does not make his cause trivial.

I voted against MMP. Nobody listened to me then either.

The one down side to the Dis/Reputrable memebers list is that certain members are doing there best to spark controversy just to get one of the now coveted three spots.

Surely if you are not interested in contributing in a positive manner the least you could do is say "Not my cup of tea!" and unsubscribe this thread.
Thing is BD I am really, really interested in child welfare.

In order to express an interest I need to know what they are about...and to this end I've been trying to find out. When this muppet (not most eloquent doesn't cut it) repeats specious comments about posters not backing things up and then refers you to specific sites...and then says I'm jumping to idiotic concusions when I do go, cos that's not what they are doing :mad: they aren't sorted yet....what would you expect? So far he hasn't answered any specific questions put to him in this thread.

On the information I've been able to glean, despite speciifc questions on this thread, I believe that this organisation could actually be a threat to moving things forward on child abuse. Regardless of my perceived view of them as a vigilante group, the public perception would be focused on external abusers, and the appearance that something is done. I haven't even gone down the route of how they set up initially (since the core members can't be vetted for 12 months) because that is an operational issue.

Muppet is the strongest word I've used to describe Spook, and I haven't said "Don't do it". I have urged people to look and make up their own minds.

[Big Dog]

Thing is BD I am really, really interested in child welfare.
My above Blah is not targetted at those asking serious questiuons or at those expecting serious answers but at those who are baiting for the sake of baiting..... You know who you are!

This is an issue that is very important to me. I feel that something of this nature would gain some success as a lobby group, and could provide a fundraising and support network. I'm not asking that those who are critical don't post merely that any criticism be accompanied by the word constructive. :crazy:

[wkid_one]

Read my other post - where I fully support the issue at hand....it just doesn't appear to be overly thought thru or well constructed in its delivery, management, organisation or structure.

I am all for reducing Child Abuse and any form of exploitation of those whose rights are easily trampled on. However - this appears to be a half arsed effort.

Of course if you ask for expressions of interest to support this cause you are going to get a resounding YES - therefore it is stupid to ask the question unless the ball is already rolling and there is something similar to action that can be attained.

To me I see little point in this thread - other than everyone going - yes this is a great idea (it would honestly surprise me if someone said no it isn't) - however this is as far as it goes???? What then is the point in asking a question - when the answer is a given - and there is no framework, structure, body, forum, action out the back of it at the moment.

It is like me saying - who would support the following groups
- Bikers against Rape
- Bikers against Animal Abuse (this would of course exclude Motu after the Horse Thread :crazy::crazy:)
- Bikers against Spouse Abuse

The vast majority would all say yes - however if there was no immediate follow through to this consensus - what is the point in me asking the question??

By all means ask it - but do it when the body establishing the group is up and running and there can be some action out the back of it....

Has the larger already established OS group(s) got the endorsement/recognition of the Government bodies that also address Child Abuse (eqv to CYPS)??? Or are they just extremists?

What have they actually done to better the cause overseas?
What have the outcomes of their rally's been ($ earned for the cause, changes in legislation)?

It sounds to me that the group is just a bunch of people (upset by the likes of Bert Potter's around the world) who ride together and bitch about the inadequacies of the goverment system?

Yes - I support the idea - however it seems to have a few holes for my liking

The Mission Statement:
Bikers United Against Child Abuse (B.U.A.C.A) exists with the intent to create a safer environment for abused children. We exist as a body of Bikers to empower children to not feel afraid of the world in which they live. We are ready to lend support to our children by involving them with an established, united organization. We desire to send a clear message to all involved with the abused child that this child is part of our organization, and that we are prepared to lend our support to them by affiliation, and our physical presence. We stand at the ready to shield these children from further abuse.

This is very reactionary - doesn't really do much to prevent it from happening?

[Big Dog]

Read my other post - where I fully support the issue at hand....it just doesn't appear to be overly thought thru or well constructed in its delivery, management, organisation or structure.

I am all for reducing Child Abuse and any form of exploitation of those whose rights are easily trampled on. However - this appears to be a half arsed effort.

Of course if you ask for expressions of interest to support this cause you are going to get a resounding YES - therefore it is stupid to ask the question unless the ball is already rolling and there is something similar to action that can be attained.

To me I see little point in this thread - other than everyone going - yes this is a great idea (it would honestly surprise me if someone said no it isn't) - however this is as far as it goes???? What then is the point in asking a question - when the answer is a given - and there is no framework, structure, body, forum, action out the back of it at the moment.

It is like me saying - who would support the following groups
- Bikers against Rape
- Bikers against Animal Abuse (this would of course exclude Motu after the Horse Thread :crazy::crazy:)
- Bikers against Spouse Abuse

The vast majority would all say yes - however if there was no immediate follow through to this consensus - what is the point in me asking the question??

By all means ask it - but do it when the body establishing the group is up and running and there can be some action out the back of it....

Has the larger already established OS group(s) got the endorsement/recognition of the Government bodies that also address Child Abuse (eqv to CYPS)??? Or are they just extremists?

What have they actually done to better the cause overseas?
What have the outcomes of their rally's been ($ earned for the cause, changes in legislation)?

It sounds to me that the group is just a bunch of people (upset by the likes of Bert Potter's around the world) who ride together and bitch about the inadequacies of the goverment system?

Yes - I support the idea - however it seems to have a few holes for my liking
And there it is the point! The problem is not the cause but the absolute lack of structure!
And now we have those issues bluntly raised, I now suggest spook takes his time and responds to these points AFTER seeking confirmation from those who he is speaking for, exactly rather than shooting from the hip and doing his own cause more harm than good.

A mission statement from the current governing body would not hurt either as this would clarify the aims without needing to know exactly how it will be when set up but how it is now.

This would facilitate us being able to offer productive input, you never know who your next bright idea will come from.

This kind of communication can only make the world a better place :hug:

[Big Dog]

The Mission Statement:
Bikers United Against Child Abuse (B.U.A.C.A) exists with the intent to create a safer environment for abused children. We exist as a body of Bikers to empower children to not feel afraid of the world in which they live. We are ready to lend support to our children by involving them with an established, united organization. We desire to send a clear message to all involved with the abused child that this child is part of our organization, and that we are prepared to lend our support to them by affiliation, and our physical presence. We stand at the ready to shield these children from further abuse.

This is very reactionary - doesn't really do much to prevent it from happening?




Yes it is and always will be unless they get around to sussing something simmilar to "The minority report".

The only other proactive things to do would be to lock up all people who fit the profile (inhumane) and education of children in how to help themselves and offenders in how to avoid temptation.

Unfortunately the human condition is flawed by its very nature.

[Jackrat]

Well I have been following This in the Oz site,Read every post on the subject.
The same things were said there as in here,Just in a funny accsent is all.
Yes there is going to be bulk shit to work out,Yes Their will be plenty of knockers,For all sorts of reasons.Like no way will I wear a fist or any other type of patch for any reason.But Thats small shit,These things even out. I give money now for Surf clubs,The west pac,Toy runs.Giving money and moral support to abused kids is just an extention of the same thing to me,As long as kids are seen to benifit from this I couldn't care less who or how it is done,But it would be more fun to do it with other Bikers I reckon.The Triumph owners club put on a run for Surf rescue, I support it even though I am not a member,Ulysses do the west pac,I support that Even though I am not a member,The same goes for BRONZ toy runs,So now somebody wants to bring us alltogeather for abused kids.Cool.From What I gather this is not and was never intended to be a front line Thing,More a supporting role from Those of us that will have a go.
:done:

[BaldyPete]

Thanks guys for the link here as what Ive read is typical with those that oppose the lifestyle as we know it...There are a few here who can understand Real child abuse but as you can see there are some that cant and they are the silver spooners who have never known what its like to be abused or have they cared, Many hard Core bikers have joined their respective clubs as they have never known family, Many have died from abuse or suicide and I guess thats a joke too, i have seen what some in this forum have said about gangs, Musnt be about Australia coz we got Bike clubs, its only the government and the cops who name them Gangs... In every club is a father and that father wants to protect his kids and and he can through the BUACA with his support we will grow to be a force for all them low life pedophiles that are released by Gay judges every day, The BUACA is lucky enough to have the support of real bikers and real bikers dont shit on their mates as some have done to this thread, Those that have shit on the BUACA and all that it stands for would have a problem dont you think, what are they so afraid off, I would be more inclined to support what most men would, I mean everyone has their own opinion but its just plain stupid to disrespect humanity....I urge all REAL bikers and their families support the BUACA or the BACA and all it stands for, We bikers are the last real hope for what others would have you forget, My brothers will fight for their rights and they will succeed in making child abuse a dirty word once more.................Real bikers know what its like to not have family values or know what its like to not play sport coz mum and dad were too wasted to worry about it, These kids are labeled as rejects and they carry that with them as adults, We will orginise runs and rallies where we can include these kids and their families as well as supply these kids with presents at xmas birthdays etc...Just cos mum and dad cant doesnt mean they have to be forgotten, We aim to help kids who are at risk of being abused as well as those that just want to belong, I am proud of the patch coz I designed it and I designed it to show that if you wanna fuck with kids then we are gonna fuck with you, That doesnt mean we are gonna take the law into our own hands but more of insist the law does its stuff to protect these kids as well as telling the abuser that 1000snds are now watching, now Ive heard a few here stand up and say they want to know more and its being discussed here in Australia as well as in the United states that New Zealand is going to have their own chapters and I guess that means those that oppose have to return to their little hovells or they are going to be eating their own words.... I only live 4 hours from you guys and I respect all my kiwi mates and there are hoards of them, None of them would ever knock what Im and my mates are doing and I would hope that none here would ever think of knocking what is just plain humanity doin what they do best...........please support us and allow those that want to help post words of wisdom and be REAL coz It aint cool to be a asshole.......... :Playnice: BaldyPete BUACA Queensland

[matthewt]

To Spook or BaldyPete,

After looking at your www site I noticed that to be a member or associate member you must have access to a bike of 750cc or greater.

Why the cc limit ??

And who does the "background checks" ??

[matthewt]

all them low life pedophiles that are released by Gay judges every day

I'm sure all the gay bikers/non-bikers out there will be impressed with this statement. To imply that gays are directly related to pedophiles is rather naive to say the least.

[PeteThePom]

Hmmmmm...debatable......probably just means a temporary loss of control...or the parent don't have a wide enough range of skills. Certainly don't think this should be illegal, or politicians should spend time looking at it. I think it's fair enough for organisations to show better alternatives and educate people so that they can choose the best parenting ways for themselves and their children that work.



I have to take you to task on this one bluninja for a variety of reasons!

The foremost is that I'm a parent myself I don't know if you are so I wont make any assumptions. The comment that particularly got my goat is "probably just means a temporary loss of control...or the parent don't have a wide enough range of skills"



Allow me to address the first point, loss of control. Yes this can happen, everyone has their breaking point and SOME parents can lose it altogether and do more than just smack their kids, in the worst cases ultimately beating them to death. However for a 'normal' parent to smack their child as a last resort to instil discipline into them I cannot and will not view as a loss of control. Your message undermines the majority of excellent parents out there who none the less occasionally have to resort to a well placed smack to discipline their child, being a parent is a tough enough job without having do gooders making blanket statements that can further undermine the confidence of decent parents(especially first timers) I continually question my approach to my daughter, always asking if I could have done better or done something differently and I haven't felt the need to use a 'smack' to make my point. However, if at some stage, as may well happen I feel the only way to correct bad behaviour is by a smack then I reserve the right to do so and if you think that displays a loss of control or not enough skills then your welcome to your life in la la land.



As a child at school I occasionally was given the slipper (albeit for major transgressions) and my father, would on rare occasions smack my arse if I was being a real little brat (deliberately putting my foot through the bathroom door being a fair example)



I did not grow up to feel victimised or traumatised by these events, indeed it was acknowledged in my generation that if you were really out of order then you'd get your backside smacked and do you know something, it worked because I grew up with a respect for those around me and with the realisation that if I did something wrong I could expect to be punished and I would accept that punishment and this expanded out to dealings with the law, if the local bobby caught us up to mischief, we'd either get a clip round the ear or the he'd have a quiet word with our parents and THAT WAS A DAMN SITE MORE EFFECTIVE THAN TAKING US TO THE POLICE STATION.



For a long time now, people have been saying, oh no we mustn't punish the poor children and we are now faced with an escalating problem of juvenile crime (a 7yr old shooting another is a recent example) and we wonder why??



Because like most 'politically correct bullshit' the pendulum has swung too far the other way and we have a generation of parents too bloody scared to punish their children in case they be accused of abuse or their children take them to court!! For fucks sake will people get real here? Children look to their parents and those around them for guidance as to what is and is not acceptable behaviour if the parents have their ultimate deterrent removed from them then what chance do they have? I used to get real upset when I was told off but nothing drove the point home quite as well as the occasional 'reminder' via a smacked arse, yes it hurt, for about 10 minutes and that was it, no fuss, no story, just you did wrong and this is the punishment, if you want to avoid it in the future then behave in an acceptable manner, period!



As for 'not having a wide enough range of skills' I'd argue that having that deterrent and using it appropriately and consistently is a skill, it's not a skill if you just regularly whack your kids to keep them on their toes. I guess you could liken it to the cold war, both sides had ballistic nuclear missiles but NEITHER side used them and why is that? Because both sides knew what would happen if they stepped over the line and physical chastisement should be viewed in the same way, it's there and it will be used if you step over the line, that’s not abuse, that’s discipline and discipline is what turns kids into well balanced adults (amongst other things) And don't be saying, oh kids shouldn't have to live with that threat hanging over them, life is all about threats. What will happen if u don’t get good grades, what will happen if you run across the road without looking, what will happen if you have unprotected sex etc etc. We use those perceived threats to guide us through life, riding a m/c is a threat and many of us do it because it's a threat we are willing to face and a risk we are willing to take.



Kids grow up very quickly these days thanks to the media and marketing vultures who realised what an untapped source of revenue kids represented and now it seems that parents are to be made powerless to guide and nurture their children as they see fit (yes discipline is part of nurturing your child, if you don’t agree go look it up in a dictionary)



This seems to have become a bit of a :angry2: but one of my pet peeves is government or others interfering in my right to live my life as I see fit, the nanny state has taken enough power and responsibility away from the man in the street as it is and NO legislation in the world is going to stop the people who are inclined to abuse their kids from doing so, lets face it, the kind of people that think it's cool to frequently beat up on their kids, do you really think they're going to give a rats arse that it's now illegal to hit your kids at all?



I'll add that I'm not in anyway attacking the good work that the NSPCC and others organisations do, they do a tough job in a tough arena but to all you sandal wearing, bearded, Tibetan satchel carrying do gooder leftie veggie interfering fuckwits, GO AND DO SOMETHING BLOODY USEFUL FOR A FUKKEN CHANGE!



BTW Spook, I like the idea but not the execution, you can't meet violence with violence and expect children exposed to that kind of environment to develop into well balanced individuals, instead they will repeat the sins of their fathers as so often happens.

[Jackrat]

Spook and Co' Some thing you might keep in mind when conversing on this site,Is the size of the bike seen in NZ,Add that to the fact that the whole seen here is a lot more splintered than that in OZ.Like imagine if you had a base of half the population of Sydney,How many positive comments are you going to get??.The other thing is that this is mainly a Jap sports bike site With a high percentage of young Folks,Who as we know tend to care about nobody but themselfs anyway.Then another thing, When so much of the hard drugs in NZ are produced and sold by the 1% clubs and these are the very drugs that are fucking up our kids we don't try to bullshit our selfs it is other wise.You guys are seen as being supporters of these clubs so that will always be a stumbling block to you by itself.You can try to convince yourself this is not true and the clubs are some type of rebels with out a cause and have anybody but their own interests in mind, But I have family members in two OZ Clubs and one in NZ.So you see I have seen for myself how they operate.The last time I spoke to one of my brothers he was buzy doing time on behalf of Ugly,As he got busted delivering two Oz of coke and 50k to south Oz.So you see even though I agree with the aims of BUACA,there is a real double standard going on as soon as you bring 1%ers into it.
Frankly I feel anybody trying to tell me the clubs are the good guys are in fact Taking the piss or think I'm a fucking blind fool.
See what I mean a major stumbling block.I still have to laugh when I think of the JGMC knocking the slope heads at Cabra' for moving H when they themselfs move Coke,Speed,Smoko,ect Interstate.Gangs???Shit tell it to someone that hasn't been there.You know After reading my own words,I now reckon you guys are pissing in the wind.

[BaldyPete]

The idea of 750cc or greater is one that is none of my doing but as with most ideas may be questioned when its brought up at a club meeting, Oh and to MathewT Being naive is my fucking right and its my right to be upset that some judges do protect scum bags that do want to stick their penises into little boys asses just coz they want to Or maybe they forgot their medication or they were drunk....Sorry if I offended a few fags but I as sure as hell dont care ....Never will ...I have a right to protect kids from the likes of some men and women and If that means telling you the truth I will.......Is that the most constructive thing you can come up with...All members who are to be working with the children will be real men you know men who check out as men and women who check out as women, I guess the police will check out members and if you want to know anything else I suggest you apply for membership or you find out through our mission statement... :doh:
C'mon bring it on coz the more you criticise real men for doing what is needed in our communities then more you will never feel good about doin your bit to help our kids..When was the last time you heard about a scum bag that was interfiering with children being allowed to walk coz the judge took into account the fact the pedophile was of good character....MMMMM sounds like "why do we need Bikers helping abused Kids" :ar15: I do have one last request from someone who does give a fuck Be Real and be honest about what you post as I am and always have...I dont want to help kids coz I want some glory in my life ..I wanna help kids coz Its a human thing to do...Some of us wanna ride bikes and some wanna just forget what abuse really is But then some of us want to make a change and make the world see that it took REAL bikers to show that you wanna fuck with kids then we are gonna fuck with you....By all accounts if you wanna take that the wrong way then you are the very reason for our being..................................BaldyPete BUACA
Ps My nephew is Gay My Wifes Best freind is Gay, Big Deal..............Next...

[bluninja]

I have to take you to task on this one bluninja for a variety of reasons!

The foremost is that I'm a parent myself I don't know if you are so I wont make any assumptions. The comment that particularly got my goat is "probably just means a temporary loss of control...or the parent don't have a wide enough range of skills"
Pete, fine, if you want the right to physically chastise your child, up to you. Read the last part of my post. There are better and more effective ways of educating a child. I will support organisations that provide this information in a non preachy way so that parents have the opportunity to learn perhaps new skills; and are able to make their own choices on what works for them. I would be against any government move to outlaw spanking, I'm not anti spanking, I'm just pro non spanking. By the way the word to really pick out is PROBABLY

My statements are sweeping and general, yes. But they reflect my beliefs, studies, and anecdotal evidence. I think it's great that you look to see if you are doing your best for your daughter; many people don't. Many people don't know about any other way to bring up children other than they way they were brought up. If you turned out right and you were spanked then it must work cos you turned out ok? (by the way you is not specifically YOU)

There's a lot of good research around explaining childhood brain developement, and why smacking is ineffective. I am no perfect parent (I have 3) but I am choosing not to use physical punishment; that doesn't mean I don't have really tough rules for my kids and they don't follow them. It also doesn't mean that I look down on other people who choose to have spanking in their armoury, nor do I lecture them (yeah yeah, I know this is what I did in my post...but this is a discussion forum).

Hope your vent got something out of your system.

[bluninja]

The idea of 750cc or greater is one that is none of my doing but as with most ideas may be questioned when its brought up at a club meeting, Oh and to MathewT Being naive is my fucking right and its my right to be upset that some judges do protect scum bags that do want to stick their penises into little boys asses just coz they want to Or maybe they forgot their medication or they were drunk....Sorry if I offended a few fags but I as sure as hell dont care ....Never will ...I have a right to protect kids from the likes of some men and women and If that means telling you the truth I will.......Is that the most constructive thing you can come up with...All members who are to be working with the children will be real men you know men who check out as men and women who check out as women, I guess the police will check out members and if you want to know anything else I suggest you apply for membership or you find out through our mission statement... :doh:
C'mon bring it on coz the more you criticise real men for doing what is needed in our communities then more you will never feel good about doin your bit to help our kids..When was the last time you heard about a scum bag that was interfiering with children being allowed to walk coz the judge took into account the fact the pedophile was of good character....MMMMM sounds like "why do we need Bikers helping abused Kids" :ar15: I do have one last request from someone who does give a fuck Be Real and be honest about what you post as I am and always have...I dont want to help kids coz I want some glory in my life ..I wanna help kids coz Its a human thing to do...Some of us wanna ride bikes and some wanna just forget what abuse really is But then some of us want to make a change and make the world see that it took REAL bikers to show that you wanna fuck with kids then we are gonna fuck with you....By all accounts if you wanna take that the wrong way then you are the very reason for our being..................................BaldyPete BUACA
Ps My nephew is Gay My Wifes Best freind is Gay, Big Deal..............Next...
Geez it's hard to be constructive with assinine postings like this. Maybe BaldyPete and Spook should be locked in a room with all these abusers so they can talk some sense into them:2thumbsup Though what comes out now appears that the focus of the group is protecting male children from homosexual paedophiles. Not sure how an abused girl would receive a group of men on bikes....but if you had female members....

Well this is an exclusive club! You have to be a REAL man (whatever that is), so presumably women (of either orientation) and gay men would be excluded.

Silver spooners? Don't know about real abuse? You don't me...you never will. I see you lot (BUACA) more in the role of abusers than anybody I've met on KB.

[Jackrat]

Spook and Co' Some thing you might keep in mind when conversing on this site,Is the size of the bike seen in NZ,Add that to the fact that the whole seen here is a lot more splintered than that in OZ.Like imagine if you had a base of half the population of Sydney,How many positive comments are you going to get??.The other thing is that this is mainly a Jap sports bike site With a high percentage of young Folks,Who as we know tend to care about nobody but themselfs anyway.Then another thing, When so much of the hard drugs in NZ are produced and sold by the 1% clubs and these are the very drugs that are fucking up our kids we don't try to bullshit our selfs it is other wise.You guys are seen as being supporters of these clubs so that will always be a stumbling block to you by itself.You can try to convince yourself this is not true and the clubs are some type of rebels with out a cause and have anybody but their own interests in mind, But I have family members in two OZ Clubs and one in NZ.So you see I have seen for myself how they operate.The last time I spoke to one of my brothers he was buzy doing time on behalf of Ugly,As he got busted delivering two Oz of coke and 50k to south Oz.So you see even though I agree with the aims of BUACA,there is a real double standard going on as soon as you bring 1%ers into it.
Frankly I feel anybody trying to tell me the clubs are the good guys are in fact Taking the piss or think I'm a fucking blind fool.
See what I mean a major stumbling block.I still have to laugh when I think of the JGMC knocking the slope heads at Cabra' for moving H when they themselfs move Coke,Speed,Smoko,ect Interstate.Gangs???Shit tell it to someone that hasn't been there.You know After reading my own words,I now reckon you guys are pissing in the wind.

Waiting waiting,,,,Or does this go in the, too hard bin.
You are going to HAVE to face the truth of this matter and be seen to do something,,See it's a bit hard to be standing in shit and preaching purity,It just don,t swing.Fuck talk about having a foot in both camps. :no:
I guess your a real popular fell'a huh,,willing to bend both ways.

[Spook]

Geez it's hard to be constructive with assinine postings like this. Maybe BaldyPete and Spook should be locked in a room with all these abusers so they can talk some sense into them:2thumbsup Though what comes out now appears that the focus of the group is protecting male children from homosexual paedophiles. Not sure how an abused girl would receive a group of men on bikes....but if you had female members....

Well this is an exclusive club! You have to be a REAL man (whatever that is), so presumably women (of either orientation) and gay men would be excluded.

Silver spooners? Don't know about real abuse? You don't me...you never will. I see you lot (BUACA) more in the role of abusers than anybody I've met on KB.

Well this is an exclusive club! You have to be a REAL man (whatever that is), so presumably women (of either orientation) and gay men would be excluded.
This shows how you are NOT paying attention Bluninja person, while jumping up and down stomping ya little foot.

And the discussion continues, some taking lead to back out, some taking the lead to do all they can to discredit themselves and their own name. Wonder what your mates think of you now. But with people like yourself that aren't able to take on something this large, Thats; ok, you can wander off and do your own thing. Leave it to those that have the strength. Making things up about the club wont keep us from ending up doing what we do and those slamming the 1% clubs are simply narrowminded.

I ask again, is this an over 18 forum, but it sure as hell dont feel like it! I feel like Im talking to a bunch of spoilt kids that have no interest in anything outside their own realm.

You didnt happen to notice that BUACA invites women, and if you are Gay Bluninja, noone is going to know nor discriminate against you,..but you missed that point because you were too busy blowing your own horn and inventing your own rules for us without making intelligent considerations, ......................and that again is sad.

............. *sigh

I feel sorry for you that you cant and wont stand up with the rest of those that will. However,...Freedom of choice is inevitable.
Watch the streets, the club 'will' appear all around you. Not IF,..but WHEN.

And it's disappointing to see others wimping out. I expected more initially, I admit that some people here are more interested in jumping on a negative band wagon full of clowns and more into themselves than the welfare of others. Selfish bastards. My, what a wonderful life you've had. What about those that havent had that life....or are having their life TAKEN from them? What have you ever done to help anyone?

We see it will take time, but time is something 'we' have plenty of. Backing away from something you feel you cant deal with is not the way to live your life. You'll spend the rest of life backing away from your own soul.
Sad.....


make a stand


Spook

[Jackrat]

Slaming the 1% clubs???
It,s the truth and we both know it.
And this is just why you will not be taken seriously here.
But as the old saying goes,,,never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn huh.No that would reqiure a bit of personal honesty and soul searching.
There is no way in hell I will support an organisation that has at it's core supporters of the 1% clubs that I KNOW from personal experience are producing the family destroying drugs that lead directly to child abuse of varying types that you profess to be against.
You sir are a fucking liar,two faced oppertunist,preying on the emotions and fears of REAL people.Keep your crap we already have better people on the job.

[Spook]

Slaming the 1% clubs???
It,s the truth and we both know it.
And this is just why you will not be taken seriously here.
But as the old saying goes,,,never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn huh.No that would reqiure a bit of personal honesty and soul searching.
There is no way in hell I will support an organisation that has at it's core supporters of the 1% clubs that I KNOW from personal experience are producing the family destroying drugs that lead directly to child abuse of varying types that you profess to be against.
You sir are a fucking liar,two faced oppertunist,preying on the emotions and fears of REAL people.Keep your crap we already have better people on the job.


Would you like some cheese with that Whine?

And please JR, this aint the place to badmouth the 1%ers, callin 'em drug dealers and such. That's jest downright rude mate.
And the club will appear on your street one day...... doing it for the kids. It's just a fact of life, get over it.


and opportunist? yes I am,..you spelt 'Opportunist' wrong mate......

[jrandom]

Fuxache but this is ugly.

How hard would it be to politely detail funds raised, social-work type organisations supported, publicity campaigns mounted, etc? Or any other presumably useful action taken. Assuming these BU-whatever people actually do any of the above, as opposed to riding around pretending to be Hells Angels.

The literacy (or lack thereof) and (presumably) associated intelligence of the spokespeople for the club in this thread gives me a very uneasy feeling about the likelihood of them doing any real good. I dislike stereotyping, but it sure sounds like most of them are likely to have crawled out from under a wet rock in the demographic that causes most of the 'violence against children' problem in the first place.

I stay with my original comment. This whole rigmarole smells like nothing more than a bunch of rednecks getting excited about a badly-thought-out justification to behave like badasses.

[Spook]

Fuxache but this is ugly.

How hard would it be to politely detail funds raised, social-work type organisations supported, publicity campaigns mounted, etc? Or any other presumably useful action taken. Assuming these BU-whatever people actually do any of the above, as opposed to riding around pretending to be Hells Angels.

The literacy (or lack thereof) and (presumably) associated intelligence of the spokespeople for the club in this thread gives me a very uneasy feeling about the likelihood of them doing any real good. I dislike stereotyping, but it sure sounds like most of them are likely to have crawled out from under a wet rock in the demographic that causes most of the 'violence against children' problem in the first place.

I stay with my original comment. This whole rigmarole smells like nothing more than a bunch of rednecks getting excited about a badly-thought-out justification to behave like badasses.


Another sterotypical comment. Is this all you've got to say? You bleat on like ya little mate above.

And.....Pretending to be HA? Ooh dear, another slap at the 1%ers...Leave the lads alone, take as many swipes at us as you like, but lets leave the HA outa this conversation, that's simply not nice. Is it...

and I dont think you've noticed but you and your comments are deeply embedded in the minority here. But please, dont get me wrong, I respect your right to be a dick.

[jrandom]

You bleat on ... I dont think you've noticed but you and your comments are deeply embedded in the minority here

Embedded in the minority? That happens to be something I've been proud of all my life. In this case it seems to be the same minority I usually find myself in, ie, one comprised of people who think for themselves.

Along related lines, Spook, you might like to try googling for 'logical fallacies'. The results will hopefully enlighten you as to why your comments have put me off the idea of your club.

[midway]

I think that after following the developments and discussions on this board that I will wade in the deep end here with a couple of comments of my
own.
I personally know the potential members who are trying very hard to establish buaca in Australia. None are members of outlaw clubs,but a group of well respected like minded people who happen to ride bikes for the pleasure of it, and perhaps as a formed group they can make a difference to
some childs life to make it that more enjoyable while they are still a child.
That may be through raising awareness of abused childrens plight in the public arena,financially assisting the community and government bodies that are struggling to cope with monetary cuts, or just giving some child a run around the roads on a bike.Who cares how, but as a group of like minded people enjoying their bikes what could be more worthwhile.
I am a female and I sit on the passengers seat of a bike, but I will do what I can to help a worthy cause.I am not a outlaw member.In fact I have worked for a conservative political party in this country and am now a student.I know spook well and know that he holds a very good position in a media group
Just because people from different walks of life are trying to come together to make a difference is great.All they are doing is attempting to do is to plant the seed to you guys.So expand your minds and your lives a little and perhaps someone else will benefit.

[jrandom]

I personally know the potential members who are trying very hard to establish buaca in Australia. None are members of outlaw clubs,but a group of well respected like minded people who happen to ride bikes for the pleasure of it ...

Ooooh. Happen to ride HDs for the pleasure of it, you mean. As opposed to those of us who, say, ride bikes 30 miles to work every day, rain or shine, because we believe they are a better and more worthy form of transport in our smog-choked, gridlocked cities.

The worthiness of 'doing something for the children' is beyond a truism. So far beyond, in fact, that in another motorcycling forum I frequent, "think of the children" is a well-trotted-out line when sarcasm is called for.

Choosing more eloquent and politic spokespeople might be a good idea for the club. Making a good case for any real effect it could have would be another excellent idea, too.

History is littered with the well-meant corpses of ideas along the lines of 'trying to come together to make a difference'. My personal suspicion is that the BUACA members are in love with the glory of their chrome tractors and have a deep desire to share that love. 'Thinking of the children' adds a lovely tinge of shallow do-gooderism to the mix, and hey presto... you have middle-aged accountants riding around on Harleys, failing to make a difference but feeling their testicles grow perceptibly with every mile, in their minds' eyes at least.

Hence my skepticism.

[Spook]

-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Spook]

-----------------------

[midway]

you have middle-aged accountants riding around on Harleys,

To quote you!!

Main bkie FXR150
I spend all my workdays at my desk in front of my 'puter and get bored occasionally. How's that for an answer?
Sounds like a public servant with a bike

[Spook]

you have middle-aged accountants riding around on Harleys,

To quote you!!

Main bkie FXR150
I spend all my workdays at my desk in front of my 'puter and get bored occasionally. How's that for an answer?
Sounds like a public servant with a bike

Actually we're looking fer a good bean counter right now,...gotta keep them pennies in order :bleh:

[jrandom]

Nobody wouldnt let a dick like you get involved. It's for the strong only, and YOu are a weak bastard.

Eh, bro, you've got an extraneous 'nt' after the 'would' there that rather detracts from the impact. Double negatives, and all that. I grasp your general idea, though, but my involvement isn't really the point, is it? It's more the entire BUACA idea.

You might also do better in any debate to avoid tinges of "I hate you, so there, and you can't play in *my* treehouse" if you want a group membership that really does fit your cross-societal ideals. What's the goal of your comment? Do you really wish to persuade me?



The kids are better off without you an your Apathetic bullshit.

And they're better off *with* you and your... what? Large shiny bike? Persuasive political activism that might change the way your country polices such social menaces? You have one, but as far as I can tell, you lack the other.

[Spook]

-----------------------------------------------------
*(I hope this Jrindom guy aint suffering from CC envy, I mean 150cc?? they still make them things? sorry I know it's low but.....150cc? my lawn mower's got more grunt than that)

...and I aint ya Bro, ya gotta earn that right


ok nuff said I think we know who's not getting icecream tonight.....

Anyone who wants to get in contact do so from the Websites.



Spook
SA BUACA
"Because no child should live in fear"

[jrandom]

Main bkie FXR150
I spend all my workdays at my desk in front of my 'puter and get bored occasionally. How's that for an answer?
Sounds like a public servant with a bike

Heh, I'm not working in the gummint or public sector by any stretch of the imagination... but doesn't your attempting to *insult* me with the term 'public servant' have interesting undertones in this discussion?

[matthewt]

I wonder what effects having a WHOLE 150cc under ya ass has on ya brain and outlook on life,...sssssssssslow I reckon :0 explains everything...

If you going to have a go at someone you should at least make sure you don't fall into the same square box you put them in. A Harley rider calling anyone else slow has the be one of the most amusing things I've ever heard on this thread. If 150cc and a slow bike makes JRandom slow in life what does 1340cc, under 50hp and dry weight of 284kg's make you ?? I mean that's the worst power/weight ratio I've ever heard of. I know a Harley is not a sports bike so can't really compare but so little power out of such a bike motor ?? That's the pot calling the kettle black !!

[matthewt]

Spook,

I notice you keep editing (and removing) your posts.

What is it a big case of speaking before thinking ??

[matthewt]

What is it a big case of speaking before thinking ??

It must be. You removed your calling JRandom SLOW, did ya just remember what you ride ??

[Spook]

It must be. You removed your calling JRandom SLOW, did ya just remember what you ride ??

---------------------------------------------------

[Spook]

If you going to have a go at someone you should at least make sure you don't fall into the same square box you put them in. A Harley rider calling anyone else slow has the be one of the most amusing things I've ever heard on this thread. If 150cc and a slow bike makes JRandom slow in life what does 1340cc, under 50hp and dry weight of 284kg's make you ?? I mean that's the worst power/weight ratio I've ever heard of. I know a Harley is not a sports bike so can't really compare but so little power out of such a bike motor ?? That's the pot calling the kettle black !!

err thankyou Captain Obvious

[Spook]

Spook,

I notice you keep editing (and removing) your posts.

What is it a big case of speaking before thinking ??

uh, decided that responding to idiots is wasteful space..Ill remove this response shortly

[matthewt]

err thankyou Captain Obvious

OK, so you comment how JRandom must be SLOW in life because the bike he rides isn't very powerful and then you agree that your Harley fits into that description as well.

I rest my case :laugh:

[matthewt]

uh, decided that responding to idiots is wasteful space..Ill remove this response shortly

Great, so why bother saying anything at all :no:

In fact if you aren't going to add anything useful then feel free to leave, if we want to join your little club then we know how to find it.

[jrandom]

Shame really. I thought I might get a reasonably entertaining exchange going there. It doesn't help when Spook goes off deleting his posts, though. Almost like he doesn't *want* any discussion.

If one isn't prepared to defend one's ideas and ideals, one should shut the hell up. I'd welcome a rebuff to any points I've made, but I suppose I shouldn't expect anything different to the usual online cesspit of ignorance.

Spook? Any further points you want to make here, or are you officially declaring your tail between your legs and scampering off?

[Spook]

Shame really. I thought I might get a reasonably entertaining exchange going there. It doesn't help when Spook goes off deleting his posts, though. Almost like he doesn't *want* any discussion.

If one isn't prepared to defend one's ideas and ideals, one should shut the hell up. I'd welcome a rebuff to any points I've made, but I suppose I shouldn't expect anything different to the usual online cesspit of ignorance.

Spook? Any further points you want to make here, or are you officially declaring your tail between your legs and scampering off?

oh ..........this aint over,...it's just begun.

[jrandom]

oh ..........this aint over,...it's just begun.

Was that the point you wanted to make pre-scamper? Really, if you have something else to say, go on, I'm not going to bite you. Just nix with the silly insults, OK?

[duckman]

oh ..........this aint over,...it's just begun.

Wasn't that a carpenters track ?? :Pokey:

Oh come on guys - We've all got better things to dicuss.... Lets move on.

[Jackrat]

Would you like some cheese with that Whine?

And please JR, this aint the place to badmouth the 1%ers, callin 'em drug dealers and such. That's jest downright rude mate.
And the club will appear on your street one day...... doing it for the kids. It's just a fact of life, get over it.


and opportunist? yes I am,..you spelt 'Opportunist' wrong mate......

How can calling em' for what they are be bad mouthing them??
My spelling I couldn't give a rats arse about,And yeah what type of cheese are ya' giving away.
But on another thing anyway,I have noticed you have turned to kiwi bashing on your own site,Bit silly that.You seem to take issue with our view of your fist patch,Ok for strines to do, but not Kiwis??.
I am suprised your kiwi mates have not told you why this is.
Maybe they have a crook sence of humor and are waiting for you to vist NZ
wearing the thing.Well don,t call me mate,mate, you have to earn the right to do that, but if you do come here for what ever reason,don,t wear the thing unless you have a paid up medical insurance policy or you are VERY carefull were you walk.The clenched fist is the patch of the Black power gang,Now I don,t really mind if you wear it, but you would be lucky if the Blacks didn,t kill you for it.And by the way when are you going to give a reasoned and real reply to my concerns over The 1% question,surly you realise it will not go away however long you ignore it.
I don,t care what you think is nice or not,but your continuing refusal to disscuss it is interesting,and I dear say will come back to bite you in the future.Just a little more back ground,As I have already told you I have brothers in a club in Oz,You probably know them both if you spend any time around the Jokers.I stopped having anything to do with them around four years ago due to the obvious double standards they practice.I know most of these guys so for you to say I am not being nice casts a definate shadow on anything else you have to say.
I,m sure you know the one about steping in shit without geting smelly feet.
It can't be done,but you seem to be trying.I,m sorry but it seems like a good way to destroy a good cause.Man I have seen for myself way to many club members kids living in terror of what dad or his mates are going to do next,Wives to frightened of their old men to do anything but continue to suffer.Kids who get no christmas because dad is buzy pissing the family future
away on the xmas run.Kids who live with the threat of the pigs crashing into their homes,because dad has been busted again.Fucken Clubs being given preference over family,,,,Don,t bullshit me Fella I have lived it and still carry the scars.And now I have one of their supporters on my door step acting all concerned.Hell what do you think I would say.

[PeteThePom]

There's a lot of good research around explaining childhood brain developement, and why smacking is ineffective. I am no perfect parent (I have 3) but I am choosing not to use physical punishment; that doesn't mean I don't have really tough rules for my kids and they don't follow them. It also doesn't mean that I look down on other people who choose to have spanking in their armoury, nor do I lecture them (yeah yeah, I know this is what I did in my post...but this is a discussion forum).

Hope your vent got something out of your system.
Yes thanks it did!!
I'll plead guilty to reacting to your generalisational and preachy statements, thats the problem with bb's you can never cover all your points without writing a small book! My comments weren't aimed at you personally(at least that wasn't the intention) My rant was fuelled as much by dozey bleeders in UK who are talking about making it illegal to smack your kid full stop which is just toooo much interference and then I read your post..........u know the rest :Oops:

[marty]

after reading all the crap that's been posted here the question still remains.......how is being a member of an organisiation going to stop ANY kid from being abused? it may make one feel better by punsishing the perpetrator, but it doesn't help the kid at 2am in their own bedroom.

charity begins at home spook dude, and there are probably people on your not-less-than-750cc bike 'club' who need to take a good long hard look at themselves, and their behaviour to their children. a police check isn't worth the paper it's written on.

do you even have a definition of what child abuse is?

[SPman]

*..As our bike pulls away from the kerb...and the cause sinks slowly in the West................"

Shit, this thread's like a verbal equivalent of the gunfight at the OK Corral !!

[Goddess of Goof]

Cmon people get in here and have an opinion!!
"child abuse ignored is child abuse"Hey Spook,
I've followed this thread right through, and I'm sorry your original post has been chewed up and misconstrued. Don't let the cynics and loners (who are not "joining up" types anyway) get you down.

Here in NZ, every five weeks, a child dies from abuse of one kind or another.

This disgraceful statistic is shocking beyond belief to someone of my vintage and experience in life.
For God's sake, what has gone wrong? When my babies were born, I believed that bringing up the kids properly was a sacred duty laid on the man and woman who brought them into the world. Doesn't that sound quaint when you put it out there today ?? hahaha...

Our parenting skills, knowledge of child development, ideas of what marriage or partnership involve, our attitudes to authority, and tolerance of violence........ all skewed.
Some people cannot differentiate between respect and fear.

I have given countless hours of volunteer time to all sorts of community organisations, including being area rep for a women's motorcycling club. We support the Women's Refuge with a charity run in July every year.

I would support an organisation like yours in NZ, and go on the rides and to the events, I just don't want to get involved in committees and so on anymore. Done my dash.
But we have an urgent need in NZ for anything and everything that might raise the issues, improve awareness, generate some cash and even make a difference. Good on you all....

BTW, someone was asking if there are men's refuges in NZ ? There are refuges for men, (safe houses) increasingly so as gay marriages between men occur. Access to them is fairly guarded - lawyers can put men in touch with them if needed, and the Women's Refuge may know of a contact.
Ciao Spook,
and here's "strength to yer arm" for the fight ahead !

:hug:

[Gutter]

You know child abuse is an issue that cannot be put in the closet, but many here seem to be more interested in slagging the idea rather than saying anything constructive. if you think BUACA NZ is a bad idea then go away and play with your blocks elsewhere but ask sensible questions please.

Do Outlaw Clubs deal in drugs? the "LEGAL" answer is NO, that is why they are NOT classified as criminal organisations. Are there members of these Clubs that conduct illegal activities such as manufacture and sale of drugs YES Are there members of the Police Force, Fire Brigade, Ambos, Doctors Nurses, Lawyers, Judges, Priests and teachers who conduct themselves in a criminal fashion in exactly the same way the answer again is YES.

Can "Patch wearers" be members of BUACA? NO and that includes any kind of Back Patch such as the Vietnam Veterans MC and Clubs of that ilk.

Who does the security vetting for BUACA? The Australian Federal Police.

Do we have members who are serving and ex-serving members of the Police force? YES

We do not hunt people down!

WE ARE NOT VIGILANTES

I hear many of you say "Lets see what happens" "Lets see if they are for real" one of you even made a comment regarding members stealing Club funds for their own gain to you people I can only say I feel sorry for you.

BUACA is an organisation to empower children after the abuse has been reported so of course we are re-active. What we can and have already achieved however is ensuring that those children that come to our attention are made aware that people do care about them and are prepared to give up their own time to make them feel wanted and safe.

I don't care if you small minded people rag on the idea you are of no consequence and are the same type of people who sit back and say hey if it dosn't affect me them I'm alright Jack.

So for those of you who actually want to make a difference NO MATTER HOW SMALL I commend you, for those of you who just moan on and on I PITY YOU.

Oh and as for why have a CC limit, thats to ensure that all members whether they be Black, White, Male, Female or in your case "BLUNINJA" Gay can ride together as a Club should. I do not wish to ride with someone who rides at the speed of sound nor do I wish to ride with mopeds. All Clubs must have Rules and that is just one of them and believe me there are many. We are Bikers first hence the "B" in the front of BUACA and by Bikers I do not mean Harley riding evil-doers but Bikers on Hondas, Harleys and Yammies in fact ANY bike over 750cc.

Those of you who are actually serious drop us a line a buaca2003@yahoo.com.au now please do not bother to send abusive emails as they will get laughed at and binned.

One last thing the fist represents breaking down the barriers and walls put up by individuals with questionable agendas such as some of the posters in this thread.

Ride safe and free and do as you please but don't knock an idea just because you think........no scratch that!! just because you DON'T think.

Gutter
Co-Founder
BUACA Australia :done:

[SPman]

Man I have seen for myself way to many club members kids living in terror of what dad or his mates are going to do next,Wives to frightened of their old men to do anything but continue to suffer.Kids who get no christmas because dad is buzy pissing the family future
away on the xmas run.Kids who live with the threat of the pigs crashing into their homes,because dad has been busted Yeah - Ive seen what happens to Kids brought up in that sort of environment - not good!
There's also more than just physical abuse - theres mental and situational abuse which is as destructive as straight physical abuse - although the two often go hand in hand!

The BUACA message is good, but we seem to be in "shoot the messenger mode" here!

Interesting.......

[Jackrat]

Gutter,you have addressed the 1% back patch wearing question,and that is all I was worried about.
Thanks.

[bluninja]

Yes thanks it did!!
I'll plead guilty to reacting to your generalisational and preachy statements, thats the problem with bb's you can never cover all your points without writing a small book! My comments weren't aimed at you personally(at least that wasn't the intention) My rant was fuelled as much by dozey bleeders in UK who are talking about making it illegal to smack your kid full stop which is just toooo much interference and then I read your post..........u know the rest :Oops:
errr..... there's people over in NZ trying to do the same...thanks for your response...a breath of fresh air in this thread :rolleyes:

[jrandom]

Gutter, ta, I appreciate the response. I for one am not *against* the BUACA (/NZ) idea. I just have reservations about its effectiveness.

As far as I'm concerned, more power to anyone who wants to do anything about the problem, and I'd certainly support any useful effort against child abuse.

What it comes down to, though, is... if you pop up on a forum, advertise something, then respond to genuine questions and concerns with insults as Spook did, you're liable to get yo ass flamed and lose all credibility.

[matthewt]

Gutter,

Your response has probably cleared up a lot of the information about BUACA in people's minds. Thank you. I would suggest in the future you ask Spook and BaldyPete to try and respond in a more friendly nature when trying to promote your cause. The way in which those two responded just got people's backs up and raised doubt into the way your group conducts itself.

Good luck with the club and your work on Oz.

[bluninja]

Oh and as for why have a CC limit, thats to ensure that all members whether they be Black, White, Male, Female or in your case "BLUNINJA" Gay can ride together as a Club should. I do not wish to ride with someone who rides at the speed of sound nor do I wish to ride with mopeds. All Clubs must have Rules and that is just one of them and believe me there are many. We are Bikers first hence the "B" in the front of BUACA and by Bikers I do not mean Harley riding evil-doers but Bikers on Hondas, Harleys and Yammies in fact ANY bike over 750cc.

Thanks for your response Gutter...answered several of my questions. Just as a matter of record I'm not gay...that was a slur by Spook (I guess it was a slur) merely because I questioned (based on Baldy Pete's response regarding real men) whether the club was excluding anyone not male and heterosexual. Thanks for clearing that matter.

I still wouldn't actively support your group, I think there are better ways, and I put my effort in there. Still given your spokespersons generally dismissive attitude to anybody that doesn't belive as you do I don't think it will give you pause for thought....strike that ....pause for non thought.

[James Deuce]

Fsssssssssst (the sound of the flames going out)

[Gutter]

I am glad that I have been able to deal with some of the many issues raised here regarding BUACA. This topic is, as you can understand extremely emotive and therefore people tend to get fired up when they believe someone has questioned their motives.

BUACA has received enormous support from BACA in the States and I hope given time that BUACA can grow and become a legitimate and well respected club both within the Biker community and the larger community in general.

One of the posts here made a comment regarding the use of the fist and the fact that Black Power already uses a fist in their Patch and this could cause a problem to that i say you wont know until you try, try asking them I think you may be surprised as I am sure that they have kids too. And if they say you cannot wear the fist then don't use it, it's that simple.

Nobody is asking anyone in NZ to become member's of BUACA because quite frankly it's not that simple I believe that Spook came to your site to voice an idea, the same idea that I myself voiced on a similar Aus forum in November last year and that idea met with strong support right across the broad spectrum of the Biker community here in Aus and I guess he thought that same support would be shown for a NZ Club in the same vain and he was dissapointed to see so many nay-sayers.

I hope that given time some members of this forum will see merit in a Club who's main aim is the establishment of a support base for kids, lets face when kids see people on bikes what do they do? well usually they smile then they wave and they only stop smiling and waving because mum or dad tells them to stop waving to the filthy bikies. ya see kids like bikes and they the people who ride them, why? I dunno maybe kids see us as modern day cowboys or something so if I can use that image to help someone who otherwise feels alone and helpless then that is what i will do.

I am a Biker not a commuter who bought his/her bike cos its cheap to run or I can get to work quicker and get free parking "although that's nice" I am a Biker because I love bikes and I generally find Bikers to be more honest and giving than the average joe thats why we have Toy Runs and Blanket Runs and runs to support the Red Cross and many others so i guess its now up to you guys.

Ride Safe and keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down

Regards and respect
Gutter
Co-Founder
BUACA
Australia

[wkid_one]

Obviously this 'Group' prides itself on conviction and lacks a lot on delivery.

It sounds a little like a lynching party to me...yes siree, hang em high....

Yet when asked the hard question you seem to come out with ummms, ahhhss and ohhhhhhhhhsss.....and personal attacks.....this doesn't come across as a particularly well thought out group in its direction, framework, communication or personality.....

You have done very little to inspire people to support let alone join your cause...and in my mind, if this is the mentality of the members, you have done more to harm it.

Child Abuse is a very very very sensitive subject, not unlike Spousal Abuse...yet you seem to be approaching it will a sledgehammer like mentality......hardly actions befitting the cause.

I would recommend the following:


Sit down and map out your direction thoroughly - you mission, your goals and your objectives (business planning stuff)
Organise your thoughts and agree to a common and agree communiction plan
Invest in a properly constructed and designed web page (not the one that looks like my nephew made on Frontpage)
Develop an Objections strategy to CONVINCE people why it is a good cause (not batter them if they don't believe/agree)
Determine what other bodies already exist in the country and work in UNISON with them
Ensure at all times you aren't acting in contravention to your goals/intentions (which you are now)
This would be time well invested rather than the misguided and worthless slanging match you are entering in to here.

[BaldyPete]

Dont matter how much you dont agree with what we are doing we are going to do it no matter what and if you disagree then so be it.....I dont want to fight with you Wkid 1 coz Y'now its stupid to blue via the internet and Im sure as hell wont stoop as low as belittle your attempted sabotaging of Spooks original post....Since you guys have brought the Mungel mob and black power into this trashing of the BUACA I will endouver to contact them to allow them to respond to some of your criticism of their bad behaviour and their fist being used for our patch, Then maybe you can also attack everyone in this world that uses a fist in their club.... :puke: you have picked our posts to bits like the vulture has picked the brains of the lamb and surely you go you sleep at night wondering how many good people you have pissed off today...Your advice suks and your respect for your fellow bikers is absolute zilch.... :finger: Respectfully I ask all bikers to disregard my anger and stay tuned to see how we progress from a bunch of Fathers and Mothers who care about the forgotten children of abuse and see what we can do as bikers who care............Wkid 1 are you related to The Ranns..........?????

[jrandom]

you have picked our posts to bits like the vulture has picked the brains of the lamb and surely you go you sleep at night wondering how many good people you have pissed off today...Your advice suks and your respect for your fellow bikers is absolute zilch

Gawd, BP, you just don't get it, do you? wkid was remarkably restrained and polite in the post you're responding to, and his points were well-founded. His advice certainly didn't suk (sic).

Gutter managed to respond in a way that didn't get anybody's hackles up; if you want membership for your organisation, how about presenting yourself in a manner that doesn't make you sound like a halfwitted redneck? Note that I'm not stating that you *are* one; I've never met you. My point is that you don't make a good impression with your childish posts.

[James Deuce]

WHOOOMPH - who poured the petrol on??

[Hitcher]

Light blue touchpaper, stand well clear... (Fingers in ears)

[BaldyPete]

I found Wkid posts insulting degrading :argh: Spose thats an insult too..........

[jrandom]

...

<tumbleweed>

...

[moko]

Bit of a coincidence here as I havn`t used the site for months and just before I started again recently I saw a t.v. documentary about BACA in Texas and had looked at their site to learn more.The bit I saw they went to the home of these 2 kids who`d been abused by a relative mob-handed and basically made these kids members and let them know they`d done nothing wrong and now had loads of buddies on their side.Also,although they`re not vigilantes it sends out a message to abusers,who basically are the very worst kind of bulies and therefore cowards,that they`re taking on a bunch of adults too,which is the biggest problem nonces have,relating to other adult human beings.I`m not knocking what they do,it`s well-intentioned,but know for a fact in the U.K. it`d lead to vigilantism with similar groups springing up.Before the wilder ones of you say "well great",this is the country where a woman was burned out of her home because the local Einsteins knew she was a paedeatrician(Doh),yep,that`s exactly what she was,and that`s the kind of imbecile that latches onto these things.
There`s a story on their web-site about an incident on a plane when a bunch of them were thrown off over some altercation with someone smacking their kid.Seemed to me like they were mainly "H.O.G." types and I really dont understand the 750 limit,if "keeping up" is the reason surely the best thing to do is ban Harleys,think you`ll find most bikes 125 and upwards are capable of being ridden at the legal limits of America,Australia and New Zealand.I thought the idea was to help kids not to pose.
As for "discussing the fist" with Black Power,well GUTTER if you do just that then there are a lot of people here that will be mightily impressed,and no doubt bring you grapes at visiting hour as well.Like I said I`m not being critical here(any more than usual anyway),just hopefully pointing out a few things.I was thinking of asking the American guys for an interview for a bike mag here,maybe you`d like to do it instead,only thing is I`d have to contact the editor first to see if he`s interested,if so how about it?Wouldn`t be just yet but you`d get your say,your words,non-judgemental and not tampered with,a couple of pics would be good too.PM me if you`re interested.

[inlinefour]

That some people here have missed the point completely and I have been left wondering if baldypete or more to the point spook have a secret agenda. At the end of the day reducing child abuse is allways going to be a good thing. But to make a patched gang that limits who can join bepending on what they ride and if they agree with you? Thats crap, if its for the cause then who gives a toss? I am a firm believer that actions speak much much louder that words and some of the words left by the author of this thread are pretty pathetic. I am a nurse who gets to see the long term results of child abuse and how you think that this sort of carry on is going to help children is beyond me.

[James Deuce]

That some people here have missed the point completely and I have been left wondering if baldypete or more to the point spook have a secret agenda. At the end of the day reducing child abuse is allways going to be a good thing. But to make a patched gang that limits who can join bepending on what they ride and if they agree with you? Thats crap, if its for the cause then who gives a toss? I am a firm believer that actions speak much much louder that words and some of the words left by the author of this thread are pretty pathetic. I am a nurse who gets to see the long term results of child abuse and how you think that this sort of carry on is going to help children is beyond me.

Did you read the whole thread? Have you seen baldypete's other post?

[Blakamin]

hmmm, year old shit getting dragged up again.... well done honda!
I think we coulda left this one dead and just kept posting in the other one.....

[Hitcher]

One goes away for two weeks and old chestnuts like this get dug up! Some people shouldn't be allowed out unchaperoned -- me included...

[magnum]

good on yas,not sure about the fist on your logo but :spudwave:

[inlinefour]

hmmm, year old shit getting dragged up again.... well done honda!
I think we coulda left this one dead and just kept posting in the other one.....

:msn-wink: :cool: :niceone: