Sourcing electric bikes

[gaddman]

Anybody on here found a place that sells or can import an electric bike? Cycletreads in Auckland had the Zero a few years ago, which looks pretty sweet. There's also a nice Italian one - Energica. Keen to hear if anybody has tried bringing one in and how much it ends up costing.

[YellowDog]

Does anyone have a good thing to say about electric motorcycles?

I rode one, a couple of years back, and would not choose to ride one again.

My main issue was that there was no engine braking, around bends, and it relied upon coasting, before accelerating out of the bend. I consider to be dangerous.

Have they changed/improved?

[R650R]

Does anyone have a good thing to say about electric motorcycles?

I rode one, a couple of years back, and would not choose to ride one again.

My main issue was that there was no engine braking, around bends, and it relied upon coasting, before accelerating out of the bend. I consider to be dangerous.

Have they changed/improved?


Very interesting valid point, half your directional stability must come from the rotating mass of crank and transmission, so losing this or having a lot less due to electronic trickery making same torque with less revs creates some inetersting issues.....

[Michael Moore]

I was visited a week ago by a couple of Zero riders who like their bikes a lot (one of them also has owned several VStroms, I don't know what the other guy might have in his stable). I think some models do regenerative braking which gives some similar effect to ICE braking. Of course, if you go from a big 4T single to an RD350 you'll swear the latter not only has no engine braking but in fact speeds up when the throttle is shut going into a corner (that was my impression).

If you want to slow down, use the brakes, they are much more effective than engine braking.

Some of the racing e-motos are going pretty well these days, weight from carrying sufficient batteries to go fast the entire race seems the main handling issue.

[caspernz]

When it comes to electric bikes, most seasoned bikers would likely scoff at the notion...:rolleyes:

[jellywrestler]

have you tried a gay bar? bound to be some owners in one of those.

[swarfie]

I was racing in the States earlier this year at two AHRMA meetings and they run a class for E bikes. They were impressive and bloody fast and had a good field. It's only a matter of time. They're coming folks. But for me, yeah na. I'm not gay....yet :crazy:

[R650R]

have you tried a gay bar? bound to be some owners in one of those.

When I started reading this reply, I thought it would tie in with the comment a bit above along the lines of few guys in there like their rides too LMAO

[R650R]

I was racing in the States earlier this year at two AHRMA meetings and they run a class for E bikes. They were impressive and bloody fast and had a good field. It's only a matter of time. They're coming folks. But for me, yeah na. I'm not gay....yet :crazy:

Accidentally watched the car formula E stuff while channel swapping other day. Very boring even compared to other one make typeracing series. Seemed a lot of variance in battery life/performance too. Wouldn’t that suck, out for rude with mates and you have less reserve capacity. Whose gonna wait while you recharge?

[pritch]

It would seem some electric vehicles are getting quite quick?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrUl3uemb4

[YellowDog]

It would seem some electric vehicles are getting quite quick?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWrUl3uemb4

So that's clear. Get an eBike for drag racing only :yes:

[Scubbo]

think it's like the 2stroke >> 4 stroke thing --- give it a few years and all motox will be electric (have you seen the new honda erex series (http://latestmxvideos.com/index.php/2017/12/06/honda-announces-first-electric-motocross-bike-cre450/)? ) --- just enjoy the petrol bikes for as long as you can (not sure if kids born today will get to do the same)

if you look at battery tech bankrolled by James Dyson, should solve a lot of the current gripes with battery tech for vehicles too

[Navy Boy]

It's interesting how the market for bikes has evolved and continues to do so. 10-20 years ago very few manufacturers even mentioned fuel consumption figures for their machines, with the exception of BMW, and yet here we are seeing it banded about every time a new bike is launched.

I suspect that with Electric bikes we're still awaiting the point of critical mass from a general market acceptance point of view. Here in NZ I suspect that point will take longer to arrive than other countires due in no small part to the relative lack of infrastructure to support them. But arrive it will IMHO.

Harley's Livewire project has been kicking around for some years now but I suspect that their analysis of the E-bike market has shown that the technology isn't yet mature enough for them to take the plunge and put it into production. I'm looking forward to when it does come to fruition though and I'd love to ride it when it does finally start to arrive in dealerships. :shifty:

[Gremlin]

Wouldn’t that suck, out for rude with mates and you have less reserve capacity. Whose gonna wait while you recharge?
They're only popping down the road for a coffee, so I hardly think range will be an issue, but then there are charging stations. :msn-wink:

[Paul in NZ]

They're only popping down the road for a coffee, so I hardly think range will be an issue, but then there are charging stations. :msn-wink:

Yes and no....

A mates just traded in his Yamaha MT10 because it gets 170km on a tank of gas... A decent E bike might achieve that so the problem with E bikes is not so much the range but the speed at which you recharge and a lack of rapid charge points.

But remember that problem was also faced by petrol driven vehicles pre WW1. Petrol was sold in cans by the chemist or local grocery store.

So yes there are issues but they are rapidly becoming non issues. Times are changing...

[pritch]

Yes and no....

A mates just traded in his Yamaha MT10 because it gets 170km on a tank of gas... A decent E bike might achieve that so the problem with E bikes is not so much the range but the speed at which you recharge and a lack of rapid charge points.


Battery technology will change because there's a lot of clever buggers working hard to do exactly that. Most of my devices: phone, iPads, toothbrush, whatever, take a while to charge up. I have a pick up in a musical instrument though that charges to full in sixty seconds.

I note though that in the Formula E races, or whatever they're called, they change cars half way so as to have enough battery to get through the race.

There will also be added risks. In a recent Formula 1 race one of the drivers was informed by the pit crew that his car was "not safe". He was instructed to climb onto the bonnet then jump clear of the car to avoid being electrocuted. Fuck that!

[Gremlin]

Yes and no....

A mates just traded in his Yamaha MT10 because it gets 170km on a tank of gas...
Yep, tech will come on fast as there is more ROI.

Lekky bikes aren't much good until they can get 600km guaranteed matching the range of the GSA (and 750km at best), although filling 30+L does take a little longer than 17 :laugh:

[Graystone]

Very interesting valid point, half your directional stability must come from the rotating mass of crank and transmission, so losing this or having a lot less due to electronic trickery making same torque with less revs creates some inetersting issues.....

If that is your understanding of stability, perhaps it better yours comes from the wheels on the bus that go round and round...

[Michael Moore]

A mates just traded in his Yamaha MT10 because it gets 170km on a tank of gas

The latest Zero with the maximum battery option claims 166 km range @ 70 mph and 332 km @ city speeds. However, the MSRP on that is US$20K which seems a bit on the expensive side for many people's budgets.

[Racing Dave]

The latest Zero with the maximum battery option claims 166 km range @ 70 mph and 332 km @ city speeds. However, the MSRP on that is US$20K which seems a bit on the expensive side for many people's budgets.

The emphasis is on the word 'claims'. I'd take any bet going that in the real world neither of the two figures quoted would be even close.

[Swoop]

Accidentally watched the car formula E stuff while channel swapping other day. Very boring even compared to other one make typeracing series. Seemed a lot of variance in battery life/performance too. Wouldn’t that suck, out for rude with mates and you have less reserve capacity. Whose gonna wait while you recharge?
Duke had something with electric racing the other day. "Pit stops" were jumping out of one car and into another.
WTF?


Makes you wonder how safe a normal electric car would be in a crash. With powertools they build them with plastic bodies to prevent electrocution but this can not be done with electric cars.
Retard.

[Laava]

Makes you wonder how safe a normal electric car would be in a crash. With powertools they build them with plastic bodies to prevent electrocution but this can not be done with electric cars.

Wow are they racing powertools now?

[Graystone]

Makes you wonder how safe a normal electric car would be in a crash. With powertools they build them with plastic bodies to prevent electrocution but this can not be done with electric cars.

This perplexing opinion comes up time and time again, people will happily drive around with highly flammable liquids containing more than 3x the energy in an equivalent electric vehicle, yet somehow the Extra Low Voltage battery packs in electric vehicles strike them as unreasonably hazardous.


Duke had something with electric racing the other day. "Pit stops" were jumping out of one car and into another.
WTF?

Just electrify the ripple strips I reckon, charge on the fly.

[Graystone]

Wow are they racing powertools now?


https://youtu.be/c1p8qMv5_iU?t=1m38s

Been doing that for years mate...

[Graystone]

Just because electric vehicles operate on a lower voltage than the mains it does not mean the voltage is not hazardous. I think a hazardous voltage is any voltage over 50v which is what the regulations stated some years back and that you need a EWRB qualification to work on equipment operating at over 50v. Time will tell how many people die of electrocution when they crash I guess.

Actually that's pretty much what it does mean. ELV is sub 120VDC (batteries) 50V is for AC (not batteries).

Now if you want to try an experiment, get a light with no lampshade, shove the whole thing up your arse and turn it on.

[awayatc]

Now if you want to try an experiment, get a light with no lampshade, shove the whole thing up your arse and turn it on.


why no lampshade......?

[Paul in NZ]

Just because electric vehicles operate on a lower voltage than the mains it does not mean the voltage is not hazardous. I think a hazardous voltage is any voltage over 50v which is what the regulations stated some years back and that you need a EWRB qualification to work on equipment operating at over 50v. Time will tell how many people die of electrocution when they crash I guess.

Nope no Nope....

You are forgetting the difference between AC and DC

However having spent decades fucking about with 50V DC with HUGE batteries behind them I can assure you that shorting one out does produce an astonishing flash, bang and a LOT of heat. Pretty unlikely to kill you though unless you were sitting on it when it went boom...

Some batteries will develop an internal short / fault and can generate enough heat to catch fire but so can petrol... But petrol has had decades of development and improvement, electric cars will get there faster.

[Paul in NZ]

I saw an electric converted motorbike at a electric vehicle demo day and on the side of the battery pack there was a sign that said Danger High Voltage. So just because the voltage is DC it does not mean it is not dangerous.

Just because you saw a sign on a homemade vehicle does not make you right either... I mean I have a motorcycle that has Sprint written on the side of it - it doesn't...

You might die of flash burns in the ensuing fire but you are unlikely to be 'electrocuted'...

[Moi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AGHeJSygp8

Yeah, I know, it has nothing to do with electric bikes... but the arcs are good uns!

But not as good as the arcs at a hydro out station when things go wrong...

[Graystone]

I saw an electric converted motorbike at a electric vehicle demo day and on the side of the battery pack there was a sign that said Danger High Voltage. So just because the voltage is DC it does not mean it is not dangerous.

No, but DC High Voltage threshold is 1500V, the pack voltage was not over 1500V, no matter what was written on the side.

Though it does sometimes help identify things when used properly, do us all a favor and hop along to your local tattooist and get 'fuckwit' inked into your forehead.

[MarkH]

My car is electric and fun to drive. But my next bike will run on petrol. The next bike after that? Maybe.

I'd like an adventure tourer and I would want more than 300km at 100kph from a charge. I can't see that happening with current battery technology, but I guess in 10 years it could well be the case.

I've looked at the Zero motorcycles and the DSR looks OK, but if I loaded one up with camping gear and tried to do a South Island trip the number of charges I would need would be a real pain, stuff that. I'll keep an eye on things over the next few years and see how it develops.

[Big Dog]

Are we sure he wasn't just an AC/ DC fan?
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSPre38M8KvAQyJnd8T8xY-ZU-5SpsUEDSkYXRW_ui3eimBFzBttw

[Paul in NZ]

Are we sure he wasn't just an AC/ DC fan?


My guess is he just wanted to stop fuckwits sticking their fingers in there

[Graystone]

why no lampshade......?

Depending on the lampshade is could be too easy to confuse with some breeds of dog, and she has done enough to man's best friend already.

[Eddieb]

If you do facebook have a look here

https://www.facebook.com/groups/490290081150877/

[gaddman]

Turns out I hadn't set the auto-subscribe to my own posts, so didn't realise this had a few replies..

Thanks a lot @Eddieb for this:

If you do facebook have a look here

https://www.facebook.com/groups/490290081150877/

To the other replies:
I'm not too worried about range, most of the production bikes are around the ~100km range, and fast charging stations are on all main highways these days (see PlugShare (https://www.plugshare.com/)).
For those thinking electric bikes are lame, maybe take a look at Lightning (http://lightningmotorcycle.com/) and Energica (http://www.energicamotor.com/energica-ego-electric-motorcycle/). And @jellywrestler - how about expressing your view in a way that's not bigoted.
Electric vehicles are as safe or more so than conventional ones; even with a battery pack at 400VDC (Nissan Leaf) you'd have to try really hard to short something - these things are crash tested like any other car.

[Euro2018]

I was lucky enough to be taken for a test ride on an Italian built, fully electric Energica a few days ago.

I'm not a highly experienced bike rider and so possibly I'm easily impressed.

This bike's performance was amazing.

The bike was piloted by Brandon Nozaki Miller who races these bikes professionally.

On paper it's good for 0-100 kph in about 3 seconds.

On the street, I was having a hard time staying on the back of the bike. There were no grab handles for the pillion at the back and for good reason, they would be useless. Most of the time I was leaning forward with my hands on the tank. But if Brandon gave it some gas (figuratively) then I couldn't hold on this position so just clasped around his chest, holding on for dear lfe.

I also took a Zero for a ride and rapidly gained an appreciation for the price difference between an Energica and to Zero.

And off topic, yesterday I took a Triumph Trophy from Las Vegas to Phoenix and back (about 950km round trip)
What an amazing ride.

[speedpro]

I don't know at what voltage DC becomes dangerous to humans but I can testify that 300VDC hand-hand will sit you down. It wasn't a high current source like a battery. All precautions are taken with electric vehicles with safety links and isolators and all sorts making it nearly impossible to accidently get hooked up. The safety aspect is hardly an issue. Range and time to recharge certainly is. The fast charge will decrease battery life so is not ideal. New technology might help that. Maybe supercaps? You still need the infrastructure of course. The peak demands when charging could be mitigated with a local battery bank supplying the charging device. Better yet, standardise batteries and simply swap them out, though that would probably require a setup where you bought the car but leased batteries, sort of like owning a welder but leasing the gas bottles which you swap out for full ones as required.

[FJRider]

I don't know at what voltage DC becomes dangerous to humans but I can testify that 300VDC hand-hand will sit you down. It wasn't a high current source like a battery. All precautions are taken with electric vehicles with safety links and isolators and all sorts making it nearly impossible to accidently get hooked up. The safety aspect is hardly an issue. Range and time to recharge certainly is. The fast charge will decrease battery life so is not ideal. New technology might help that. Maybe supercaps? You still need the infrastructure of course. The peak demands when charging could be mitigated with a local battery bank supplying the charging device. Better yet, standardise batteries and simply swap them out, though that would probably require a setup where you bought the car but leased batteries, sort of like owning a welder but leasing the gas bottles which you swap out for full ones as required.

It's not the Volts that do the damage ... it's the Amps.

Compare the Voltage at the business end of a spark plug ... to the three pin outlet in your house ... ;)

[pritch]

It's not the Volts that do the damage ... it's the Amps.



It's the volts that jolt but the mils that kills - or something? If the cars are *that* safe I'm still curious as to why the Formula E driver was told his car was unsafe and he should climb on to the bonnet and jump.