Interesting article

[Navy Boy]

Hi All

Just spotted this on the web this morning.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11962954

The reasons cited for the decreasing numbers are interesting. Fewer (Not 'Less as the video says...) m/cycles on the roads are cited as being one of the reasons for the falling fatality rate (Until this year that is). So - Just who is to blame this year then? It can't be bikers's fault surely? Not according that that logic at any rate...

[rastuscat]

More bike registrations on hold gives the appearance of less bikes.

Just a theory.

[Murray]

but there talking about license numbers aren't they. Not registrations

[FJRider]

but there talking about license numbers aren't they. Not registrations

Darwin's theory might actually be working .... the idiots might be thinning themselves out .... ;)

Cassina's turn is soon .. maybe .. :calm:

[rastuscat]

License numbers are dodgy. Most Class 6 licence holders don't ride. And as they now expire 6Ls, there's a lot of Class 6 licence disappearing.

[FJRider]

License numbers are dodgy. Most Class 6 licence holders don't ride. And as they now expire 6Ls, there's a lot of Class 6 licence disappearing.

Don't forget about the born again riders ... that get old and die ... <_<

Newly licensed rider numbers ... cant keep up with the death rate.

Although ... self attrition ... er .. helps .. ?? :shifty:

[Voltaire]

As long a people have been driving/riding they have been crashing.

After doing 3500kms around NZ in the last three weeks in a combination of van and bike I can say 100 kmph is too fast

for a lot of the third world roads we have, and a moments distraction with an approach speed of 200 kmph separated by 100

mm of white line will end badly.

The amount of Darwin apprentices who think you can leave overtaking in the overtaking lane to after the ending in 200

metres in beggars belief. I came around one corner between Nelson and Havelock to

find an empty logging truck on my side of the road overtaking a camper van doing over 100. Trucks I felt were pushing

the envelope around the West Coast going around corners.

The Herald...a shadow of its former self.

[Navy Boy]

Yep - I find myself disappointed with the article and the overly simplistic argument it's putting forward. This also accompanied by the lowering of a few more speed limits up near Helensville which will make us all a lot safer...

It makes you wonder what they'll blame the increase in fatalities this year on???

Ref the trucks on the South Island - Yep, some of them take the proverbial but I've noticed the standard of driving in general has gone down in the past week or two. Nothing particularly complicated about any of it either. Just people trying to do more than one thing whilst behind the wheel and not paying attention to what is the most important thing in their life at that point - Driving the flaming car they are in.

Oh and some dodgy riding too - Motorcyclists are not helping themselves. Dodgy overatkes seem to be the most obvious thing judging by the VStrom rider I followed off the ferry last weekend...

Take care out there people. :yes:

[EJK]

I came around one corner between Nelson and Havelock to

find an empty logging truck on my side of the road overtaking a camper van doing over 100. Trucks I felt were pushing

the envelope around the West Coast going around corners.

You know, that wouldn't be a problem if the truckie wasn't driving under pressure...

[Woodman]

Maybe the could offer an alternative punishment for car drivers at fault by taking their car licenses off them and making them get bike licenses. Nothing will change as despite all the rubbishing I have had to my solution of higher ACC premiums for those at fault on here no one else has come up with anything better either other than call me a fuckwitt or similar coment to make them feel big in the absence of coming up with a brighter idea.

But you are a fuckwit.

[EJK]

Another thing is that the power steering in modern cars is far too light as I am looking at updating my car after 15 years and while light powersteering might be a plus putting around town its dangerous in my opinion on the open road. I own 2 bikes with one having heavier steering than the other and the one with the heavier steering does feel better on the open road unless i am doing a windy hilly road. On some vehicles I have read it is possible to select heavier steering on the open road but I dont think you can do that with any vehicle costing under $70k.

Here we go, blaming technology/ 3rd party. Again.

How hard is it to control a fucking steering wheel.

[Jeff Sichoe]

more people on roads, more crashes, it really is as simple as that.

I vote to keep 100kph limits on open roads, even shitty ones, because i'm selfish, and they're often the most fun!

[FJRider]

Also the high cost of registration would be responsible for a lot of license holders no longer riding unless they get a midlife crisis maybe then riding becomes an affordable way to cope with the MLC.

NOPE ... High costs just stop some riding. It costs nothing to keep your motorcycle license (apart from renewal costs) when you renew your drivers license. Few would cancel just their motorcycle license.

[EJK]

Lots of people do have a problem with steering wheel control otherwise there would be no "run off the road" or "over the centre line crashes" now would there? Another modern thing about cars that is dangerous is the distracting LCD screen they are fitted with. I remember years ago it was illegal to have a screen in a car that was visible by the driver. I wonder when that law went out? Modern technology is not all for the better despite the image appeal that perhaps it has for you.

Sounds like steering wheels are frikking dangerous thing!

[caspernz]

License numbers are dodgy. Most Class 6 licence holders don't ride. And as they now expire 6Ls, there's a lot of Class 6 licence disappearing.

The same can be said about some of the other classes. Plenty of folks have a class 5 licence, but can't safely operate a big rig. It's all about keeping skills up to date.

Looking at the ACC or NZTA stats that were floated a while back, it would seem a fair number of bikers do quite well crashing without another vehicle involved. From what I see day to day in urban and open road environments, the stats are on target. Personal responsibility is weak in many folks. Education combined with meaningful enforcement has to be part of the answer.

The article posted by OP is annoying to me, for it floats (using poor grammar to boot) partial stats to grab headlines.

Where I get a giggle is when folks spout about standards being low. The common theme is they want someone else to improve, just not themselves...:innocent:

[Taxythingy]

Where I get a giggle is when folks spout about standards being low. The common theme is they want someone else to improve, just not themselves...:innocent:

Hard to improve when you're fuckin' brilliant. Better off getting the low hanging fruit, since there are bigger gains to be made. Or something.

[caspernz]

Hard to improve when you're fuckin' brilliant. Better off getting the low hanging fruit, since there are bigger gains to be made. Or something.

We're all learning, all the time. The problem comes about when folks think they're brilliant (when they're not) and don't want to learn anything. As heard from several Rideforever coaches...:innocent::facepalm:

[pritch]

We're all learning, all the time.

Some are, but sadly most are not. I had to drive across town today and, not unexpectedly, there were people pulling out into the stream of traffic into non-existent gaps, and other people trying to cross multiple lanes. Sheer idiocy. These fuckwits no doubt secure in the beief that they are "good" drivers when in fact they shouldn't even be on the road.

I made it home and I'm going nowhere in the car now until the madness ends.

[WALRUS]

Sounds like steering wheels are frikking dangerous thing!

Oh they are, mate. They sometimes let you turn left when you should turn right.. And they have little bombs in them!!

[onearmedbandit]

Another thing is that the power steering in modern cars is far too light as I am looking at updating my car after 15 years and while light powersteering might be a plus putting around town its dangerous in my opinion on the open road. I own 2 bikes with one having heavier steering than the other and the one with the heavier steering does feel better on the open road unless i am doing a windy hilly road. On some vehicles I have read it is possible to select heavier steering on the open road but I dont think you can do that with any vehicle costing under $70k.

Heard of speed sensitive power steering? Been fitted to cars under $70k since ages ago.

[Woodman]

Heard of speed sensitive power steering? Been fitted to cars under $70k since ages ago.

Don't start it on the power steering again please. Last time it posted up a link to prove it was right but the article actually proved it wrong. Made no difference to the morons opinion though.

[onearmedbandit]

Don't start it on the power steering again please. Last time it posted up a link to prove it was right but the article actually proved it wrong. Made no difference to the morons opinion though.

Damn I missed that.

[Murray]

Another 2 trucks rolled today - one in Dunedin, one in Hanmer - lucky no one coming the other way. How and why to trucks keep flipping??? Truck killed a pedestrian on a crossing in Hamilton yesterday.

Have a look, a truck is crashing virtually everyday somewhere in New Zealand.

Doesnt anyone notice these things??

[FJRider]

Another 2 trucks rolled today - one in Dunedin, one in Hanmer - lucky no one coming the other way. How and why to trucks keep flipping??? Truck killed a pedestrian on a crossing in Hamilton yesterday.

Have a look, a truck is crashing virtually everyday somewhere in New Zealand.

Doesnt anyone notice these things??

People step onto pedestrian crossings because the law says you have to give way to them ... logging trucks need a little notice to stop in time.

Most truck accidents are the result of the truckies trying to avoid motorists that overtake them into small gaps ahead of them ... then braking hard to not hit the vehicle in front of them.

Everybody wants to be in front ... especially in front of trucks.

[Murray]

People step onto pedestrian crossings because the law says you have to give way to them ... logging trucks need a little notice to stop in time.

Most truck accidents are the result of the truckies trying to avoid motorists that overtake them into small gaps ahead of them ... then braking hard to not hit the vehicle in front of them.

Everybody wants to be in front ... especially in front of trucks.

But it was controlled by lights! Not just the standard zebra crossing

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/100122676/hamilton-pedestrian-hit-by-truck-named-as-margaret-elizabeth-stewart

Interesting and unfortunate one

And the 2 trucks that rolled today were caused by cars cutting in front?

[Berries]

Another 2 trucks rolled today - one in Dunedin
Two words. Kilmog.

It used to be a regular occurrence having trucks come off the Kilmog hill then find they had no brakes when they hit Dunedin. Brakes are better these days but it still happens. Lucky so far that none of them have bowled a pedestrian. They tend to overheat their brakes coming down a big hill in to town, get a little respite on an uphill then hit another nadgery downhill bit when they get to town which has a sharp corner at the bottom. You can't get round that corner with no brakes.

Made a bit of a mess. (https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/truck-crash-still-backing-traffic)

[eldog]

People step onto pedestrian crossings because the law says you have to give way to them ... logging trucks need a little notice to stop in time.

Everybody wants to be in front ... especially in front of trucks.

Logging trucks, they be different to other trucks?

Notice usually triplicate?

[Berries]

Logging trucks, they be different to other trucks?
I wooden think so.

[eldog]

Some are, but sadly most are not. I had to drive across town today and, not unexpectedly, there were people pulling out into the stream of traffic into non-existent gaps, and other people trying to cross multiple lanes. Sheer idiocy. These fuckwits no doubt secure in the beief that they are "good" drivers when in fact they shouldn't even be on the road.

I made it home and I'm going nowhere in the car now until the madness ends.

Frustation, often leads to taking chances.
and things happening at a faster rate as people get desparate. Sometimes you can’t see the next lane as you cross it as a gap appears......:whistle:
and the std attitude, ‘I am better than you’

[FJRider]

But it was controlled by lights! Not just the standard zebra crossing

And the 2 trucks that rolled today were caused by cars cutting in front?

Were the lights green when the truck entered the crossing .. ?? A slow walker might not make it in time.

No mention of charges laid.

[eldog]

Were the lights green when the truck entered the crossing .. ?? A slow walker might not make it in time.

No mention of charges laid.

Slow walkers laying charges cause explosive event.

[pritch]

Have a look, a truck is crashing virtually everyday somewhere in New Zealand.

Doesnt anyone notice these things??

Nah. All effort is focussed on ensuring nobody exceeds the limit by 5kph. Priorities?

[toycollector10]

In December 1974 I rode through Levin and there was a huge sign with the road toll. Seven hundred and something...I've just read a recent AA magazine. It stated that of the current 300 plus dead, one hundred weren't wearing seat belts. Stupid people will sometimes die young. Buckle up people, make it click etc....

[husaberg]

Logging trucks, they be different to other trucks?

Notice usually triplicate?

Yes they have higher centers of gavity and they have loads that are hard to secure ie that can shift its also why they tend to roll over more (also applies to tankers and concrete trucks)

[caspernz]

Yes they have higher centers of gavity and they have loads that are hard to secure ie that can shift its also why they tend to roll over more (also aplies to tankers and concrete trucks)

Partly agree, the common factor in truck rollovers would be the "enthusiasm" with which the truck is operated though...:brick:

[robajs]

well.... I am a concrete truck driver and yes a higher center of gravity and what is considered to be a live load
makes for an interesting drive sometimes. and the end of year rush saw us working long days with an focus on getting everything done from management. but we still have to work within the law so there was zero pissing around!!! truck drivers in general are getting pushed to get more and more done so tiredness and inattention play a major part in truck accidents. this is no excuse but simply a fact of modern life.
I regularly see people paying more attention to drinking their coffee than to driving, and of course cell phones.
most drivers these days seem unaware of consequences of a crash , how much it can hurt/ maim them etc.
it happens to other people dosn't it ?
as motorcyclists we are vey aware how much a small lapse in judgement can hurt!

[caspernz]

well.... I am a concrete truck driver and yes a higher center of gravity and what is considered to be a live load
makes for an interesting drive sometimes. and the end of year rush saw us working long days with an focus on getting everything done from management. but we still have to work within the law so there was zero pissing around!!! truck drivers in general are getting pushed to get more and more done so tiredness and inattention play a major part in truck accidents. this is no excuse but simply a fact of modern life.
I regularly see people paying more attention to drinking their coffee than to driving, and of course cell phones.
most drivers these days seem unaware of consequences of a crash , how much it can hurt/ maim them etc.
it happens to other people dosn't it ?
as motorcyclists we are vey aware how much a small lapse in judgement can hurt!

All valid points. In some parts of the transport industry the focus goes on doing things right, rather than quickly. Needless to say that's where I've spent the past two decades, DG tankers. Not always perfect either I'll admit, but a damn sight better than some sections of the road transport game.

Personal responsibility comes into it as well. So when I've seen a certain truck being operated with "enthusiasm" repeatedly, then one morning find same truck rolled over into a paddock, with nobody but the steering wheel attendant to blame...:shutup::facepalm:...and then having experienced this scenario repeatedly, what can I say? We all make mistakes, but when the margin for error is shaved wafer thin, one small hiccup and it's game over.

Generally a good motorcyclist tends to make a good truck driver, must be that situational awareness thing aye?

[GazzaH]

I've never made a good truck driver. What parts do I need?

[caspernz]

I've never made a good truck driver. What parts do I need?

A flexible imagination and negotiable morals are a good start :devil2:

[WALRUS]

I wooden think so.

https://i.giphy.com/media/5gw0VWGbgNm8w/giphy.webp

[pritch]

most drivers these days seem unaware of consequences of a crash , how much it can hurt/ maim them etc.


In his book "The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle" Bernt Spiegel discusses this. Motorised travel is a very recent development in the history of human beings and evolution has done nothing to prepare us for it.
Through evolution we have developed defences such as a fear of heights and an awareness that a fall is going to be painful. Nothing has prepared us for modern traffic, and many just do not associate their behaviour with risk.

The book is well worth a read if you're into reading.

[caspernz]

In his book "The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle" Bernt Spiegel discusses this.

Great book, bit heavy duty or brainy in parts, so not all bikers will be keen to read it...even if it's basically evolution (or lack thereof) explained in relation to moving at speed.

[rastuscat]

Motorised travel is a very recent development in the history of human beings and evolution has done nothing to prepare us for it..

I'm not so sure.

Evolution caused us to walk upright. Lucky, or handle bar reach would be tricky.

[Grumph]

About 100 years ago Fred Lanchester reckoned that the driver's eyeline should be the same height as if he was on foot so made his cars like that.

Obviously he'd never thought of SUV's or concrete trucks...But he had anticipated SUV drivers as he was effectively the father of the Automatic transmission.

Humans have evolved in that century - we're accustomed to looking down on others now from our vehicles - and using both feet to drive, even if we shouldn't.

I saw a sideline to that evolution today on the West Coast road - a rider using the highest apehangers I've seen since the '70's. Luckily that branch of evolution is self limiting...

[granstar]

I just love my barbacks...and edges of gutters.