250cc GP Mono , mnz rules [Archive]

mr bucketracer

30th December 2017, 18:13

under mnz the 125 2 stroke / 250cc GP Mono , i can only see this as 250 engines have to be mx engine ? this year a nsf 250 is racing .. is this legal ?

Grumph

30th December 2017, 19:15

mr bucketracer

30th December 2017, 19:19

Seems to be...No requirement for the engines to come from a road - or any- production bike. No homologation needed either,
It's just as legal as an RS125.

Approach the local Mahindra agents for an engine and slot it into one of your frames....when i type in the net the first thing that comes up is a gp125 frame with a mx engine , the rest is just mx engine powered road race bikes , thought seen its a week out maybe a floor in the rules

Grumph

30th December 2017, 20:42

No idea what other countries are doing. GP frame with MX engine is a starting point certainly. It would be legal here too.
Our rules for this class are more open than the bucket rules at least...and I like that.

Bert

1st January 2018, 11:05

MNZ class rules are here.
https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/rules/appendix-g---125-gp-250-mono5f2a00466e51694ab575ff0000938921.pdf?sfvrsn=2

NSF is all good under the current championship rules.
As Grump said nice and loose, which enables people to be creative again.
You could even work up a KTM RC200 or a XR250 engine and put it into a GPR frame.

Machine Specifications:
a) 125cc GP Machines must be up to 125cc single cylinder 2 stroke
with a maximum of a 6 speed gearbox. Or:
b) 250cc GP Mono machines be fitted with a single cylinder four stroke
engine with a maximum of a 6 speed gearbox, with a capacity no less than 200cc and no greater than 250cc

Grumph

1st January 2018, 11:34

If it was open fuel for aircooled engines, I'd love to have a go at a GN250 engine - just for shits and giggles.

mr bucketracer

1st January 2018, 12:47

ktm duke 200 bored to a 250 would be a good engine to use

jellywrestler

1st January 2018, 12:53

under mnz the 125 2 stroke / 250cc GP Mono , i can only see this as 250 engines have to be mx engine ? this year a nsf 250 is racing .. is this legal ?

why do so many people not even know where to the find the rules, not just you but so many, do they just not care or can't use the internaughty properly?

mr bucketracer

1st January 2018, 15:33

why do so many people not even know where to the find the rules, not just you but so many, do they just not care or can't use the internaughty properly?what the hell are you on about? i did and its not fucking clear , if mnz put moto3 bikes gp125 and super what ever the fuck i would not have to ask ? i know there are differnt wording and just want to clear that up ?is that a sin? lol

jasonu

1st January 2018, 17:00

what the hell are you on about? i did and its not fucking clear , if mnz put moto3 bikes gp125 and super what ever the fuck i would not have to ask ? i know there are differnt wording and just want to clear that up ?is that a sin? lol

Yep they write rules that are unclear, incomplete, ambiguous, open to interpretation, split them up into several different sections which you are supposed to be able to figure out then when it all turns to shit blame the competitor because he didn't read the rules. It has always been this way.

jellywrestler

1st January 2018, 17:45

what the hell are you on about? i did and its not fucking clear , if mnz put moto3 bikes gp125 and super what ever the fuck i would not have to ask ? i know there are differnt wording and just want to clear that up ?is that a sin? lol

this is the rule on the mnz website, doesn't say anything about mx engines ????? is this what you saw?
1 Machine Specifications:
a) 125cc GP Machines must be up to 125cc single cylinder 2 stroke
with a maximum of a 6 speed gearbox. Or:
b) 250cc GP Mono machines be fitted with a single cylinder four stroke
engine with a maximum of a 6 speed gearbox, with a capacity no less
than 200cc and no greater than 250cc

mr bucketracer

1st January 2018, 18:44

this is the rule on the mnz website, doesn't say anything about mx engines ????? is this what you saw?
1 Machine Specifications:
a) 125cc GP Machines must be up to 125cc single cylinder 2 stroke
with a maximum of a 6 speed gearbox. Or:
b) 250cc GP Mono machines be fitted with a single cylinder four stroke
engine with a maximum of a 6 speed gearbox, with a capacity no less
than 200cc and no greater than 250cci know is does not but steve's imd250 said the name of his bike is knowen as some other name other then moto3 . diffients been the mx engine ? i cant remember , just bloody asking ok

ellipsis

1st January 2018, 19:27

...great place to pose this question, on a very informative and balanced forum...I'm sure there will be a clear cut consensus, within minutes...love this forum, I will tell all my friends about it...will be keen to visit again soon...

Grumph

1st January 2018, 19:30

The real Moto3 class bikes have engines from approved suppliers - who must agree to supply a minimum number of engines for the class.

I'd imagine that like NZ, other countries running 250 4T singles don't want to get locked into engine supply contracts so run a variation on the Moto3 rules...
I think Spain is the exception, they're going down the full limited engine path.

I like the ability to take any 250 single from anywhere and use it. But looking at what is about vs the better RS125's, I would like to see open fuel for the 4T's.
Maybe injection with avgas - carbs with Methanol....

jellywrestler

1st January 2018, 19:59

i know is does not but steve's imd250 said the name of his bike is knowen as some other name other then moto3 . diffients been the mx engine ? i cant remember , just bloody asking ok

ok, but i went straight to the rules on the mnz web site and it was pretty clear, so i was just bloody telling, ok

Bert

1st January 2018, 22:02

i know is does not but steve's imd250 said the name of his bike is knowen as some other name other then moto3 . diffients been the mx engine ? i cant remember , just bloody asking ok

Steve was pushing for GPmono - to keep things semi level (not Moto3 level rules).
This never was put forward or accepted by MNZ.

Some clubs do make things a little more confusing the way they word their supplementary rules for their own classes or mix classes.

BMWST?

1st January 2018, 22:47

Grumph

2nd January 2018, 05:47

is the fuel regulated anywhere for gp monos???

Here in NZ they're the same as all other Championship toad race classes - 100 octane or equivalent.

From an engine builders point of view, getting a 250 4T competitive with RS125's is a much more attractive proposition if you can use Methanol.
It offsets an awful lot of weight penalty 4T vs 2T. The engines would last longer too, cooler running.

Edit - It'd be nice if MNZ would allow E85 for the 250 4T's - as an incentive to get more built.

koba

2nd January 2018, 14:35

If it was open fuel for aircooled engines, I'd love to have a go at a GN250 engine - just for shits and giggles.

This would be hilarious.
I think one could be run on Methanol as a post-classic but wouldn't really have anything to race against.

Grumph

2nd January 2018, 16:12

This would be hilarious.
I think one could be run on Methanol as a post-classic but wouldn't really have anything to race against.

In the SI, CB250RS's are a popular pre 82 Junior bike. Shorter circuits and dedicated class races give us big fields...
CAMS run a 150 2T/250 4T class but as I read the rules, no meth allowed there.

S'pose I could fit a second oil pump and call it a GSXR....

scott411

2nd January 2018, 17:49

Here in NZ they're the same as all other Championship toad race classes - 100 octane or equivalent.

From an engine builders point of view, getting a 250 4T competitive with RS125's is a much more attractive proposition if you can use Methanol.
It offsets an awful lot of weight penalty 4T vs 2T. The engines would last longer too, cooler running.

Edit - It'd be nice if MNZ would allow E85 for the 250 4T's - as an incentive to get more built.

i thought E85 was legal for road racing in NZ

(and the fuel rules are complacted, so i can not tell)

https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/rules/appendix-d---fuel-specifications-(road)f32900466e51694ab575ff0000938921.pdf?sfvrsn= 2

Grumph

2nd January 2018, 18:23

i thought E85 was legal for road racing in NZ

(and the fuel rules are complacted, so i can not tell)

https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/rules/appendix-d---fuel-specifications-(road)f32900466e51694ab575ff0000938921.pdf?sfvrsn= 2

From memory - cos that link don't open for me - pump fuel with up to 15% Ethanol is legal in those classes which must use pump fuel...Gull users, confined to the North Island....

E85 isn't even legal for the classic and post classic classes because it doesn't match the specs for either 100 octane equivalent or the legal methanol.
But the last time I bought drum methanol, it didn't match what was in the book either - most 20L drum sales are actually a coloured Methanol. The book says only clear is legal...You can't even do what was popular in period and run a petrol/meth mix as that's illegal currently.

ellipsis

2nd January 2018, 19:01

...let's bring back a class for old meth-heads...

Grumph

2nd January 2018, 19:43

...let's bring back a class for old meth-heads...

The real fun of the open fuel era was turning up with something no-one had considered as a race bike, running evil smelling fuel - and winning....

koba

3rd January 2018, 04:31

The real fun of the open fuel era was turning up with something no-one had considered as a race bike, running evil smelling fuel - and winning....

This makes me think of an XR500 that was uncannily quick...

mr bucketracer

3rd January 2018, 10:26

This makes me think of an XR500 that was uncannily quick...Lee Richardson has a nice xr500ish injected bike in a nsr250 frame , was another one built by dave ? forgot second name , raced dukes

jellywrestler

3rd January 2018, 16:40

...let's bring back a class for old meth-heads...

there already is, it's called bears...

jellywrestler

3rd January 2018, 16:40

Lee Richardson has a nice xr500ish injected bike in a nsr250 frame , was another one built by dave ? forgot second name , raced dukes

dave cole?

mr bucketracer

3rd January 2018, 17:50

dave cole?yip thats him

Grumph

3rd January 2018, 18:29

there already is, it's called bears...

Tell me on friday what you're going to say if they ask you to commentate the Sound of Thunder.....

In actual fact, even though it's legal in BEARS, the average member is too lazy to be bothered.

jellywrestler

3rd January 2018, 18:39

Tell me on friday what you're going to say if they ask you to commentate the Sound of Thunder.....

In actual fact, even though it's legal in BEARS, the average member is too lazy to be bothered.

last time i they did i asked for a hundred dollars, they told me they didn't realise i expected to be paid for doing it, wondering who can travel from the north island for a three day weekend for $100 and actually think they can pocket some of that money...

jellywrestler

3rd January 2018, 18:40

Tell me on friday what you're going to say if they ask you to commentate the Sound of Thunder.....

you too tight to pay to get in over the weekend?

Grumph

3rd January 2018, 20:38

you too tight to pay to get in over the weekend?

That and I only go to catch up with people I haven't seen for a while. Much easier on practise day as everyone is more relaxed.

I stopped thinking the results mattered many years ago....

Kickaha

4th January 2018, 20:11

the average member is too lazy to be bothered.
Which is why their sign in doesn't start until midday

jellywrestler

4th January 2018, 22:32

That and I only go to catch up with people I haven't seen for a while. Much easier on practise day as everyone is more relaxed.

I stopped thinking the results mattered many years ago....

good point greg, i'll miss seeing ya as i'm going down saturday

Grumph

5th January 2018, 05:59

good point greg, i'll miss seeing ya as i'm going down saturday

Well, if there's a rainoff on Sat - which looks at least possible - you know where I am.

jellywrestler

5th January 2018, 06:54

Well, if there's a rainoff on Sat - which looks at least possible - you know where I am.

it's motorcycle racing, not cricket, i went to greymouth, wanganui and nelson and neither street circuit was dry nor called off in the morning.

Grumph

5th January 2018, 07:31

it's motorcycle racing, not cricket, i went to greymouth, wanganui and nelson and neither street circuit was dry nor called off in the morning.

I don't say it's likely - but Ruapuna doesn't drain as well as a street circuit. I've been there when racing was called off due to standing water on several corners.

jellywrestler

5th January 2018, 07:51

I don't say it's likely - but Ruapuna doesn't drain as well as a street circuit. I've been there when racing was called off due to standing water on several corners.

local knowledge always shoots a smart arse down.

Kickaha

5th January 2018, 12:47

I don't say it's likely - but Ruapuna doesn't drain as well as a street circuit. I've been there when racing was called off due to standing water on several corners.

So have I and Friday practice has been called off

Grumph

5th January 2018, 12:58

So have I and Friday practice has been called off

Yes - and half the people I wanted to see have gone to try the indoor go karts.....

To return to the original reason for this thread - I've now seen the Moto3 Honda and it's nice.
Steve Ward tells me it should walk the class as it was straight into the 1min 40's even though the rider has never been here before....

Kickaha

6th January 2018, 19:47

it's motorcycle racing, not cricket, i went to greymouth, wanganui and nelson and neither street circuit was dry nor called off in the morning.

You were probably at Pukekohe and HD Nationals when days were canned due to rain and then thay ran extra races the next day, Teretonga is the only one I've been to when the meeting was run regardless of the torrential pissing freezing rain

Grumph

7th January 2018, 05:37

You were probably at Pukekohe and HD Nationals when days were canned due to rain and then thay ran extra races the next day, Teretonga is the only one I've been to when the meeting was run regardless of the torrential pissing freezing rain

I've been at Teretonga when the meeting was only canned when the snow got too thick for visibility....

mr bucketracer

8th January 2018, 06:20

Never seen so meany riders done for jump starts

jellywrestler

8th January 2018, 10:36

You were probably at Pukekohe and HD Nationals when days were canned due to rain and then thay ran extra races the next day, Teretonga is the only one I've been to when the meeting was run regardless of the torrential pissing freezing rain

2011 teretonga afternoon cancelled due to heavy rain

ajturbo

8th January 2018, 13:14

Never seen so meany riders done for jump starts

every jump start was reviewed by video..

Crasherfromwayback

8th January 2018, 15:01

I don't say it's likely - but Ruapuna doesn't drain as well as a street circuit. I've been there when racing was called off due to standing water on several corners.

One SOT Meeting on my 883, there was a puddle on inside of the sweeper a 1/2 foot deep. Made things interesting.

Grumph

8th January 2018, 15:07

One SOT Meeting on my 883, there was a puddle on inside of the sweeper a 1/2 foot deep. Made things interesting.

That's lake Crawley...from when the sweeper was DC Auto spares corner, LOL. It was back with some friends on friday...