Target fixation

[Back Fire]

Is there any kind of exercises, games etc that I can do to help with target fixation problems while riding???

[WRT]

Is there any kind of exercises, games etc that I can do to help with target fixation problems while riding???

I spy?

(something begining with "o" . . . obsticle? obstruction? orgasm! Wa-hey hey - *crunch* . . . )

You could try clocking up some time on MotoGP, that way if you crash practicing it dont hurt so much!

I did read in the twist of the wrist series some exercises to help improve your periphial vision, to do with sitting down and focusing on a spot on the wall and then trying to identify items around it. Anyone know the exact method they recommend?

[onearmedbandit]

Mental alertness works for me. Don't daydream (easy to do) while riding, just actively search where you want to be as far as position exiting the corner.

[Motu]

Off road riding.

Full lock low speed turns,like a trials bike.Check out ''Total control'' He has guys doing full lock trials type turns on everything - it's stand on the outside peg and full lock on the bars,and full lock on the neck.You can only turn that tight by looking really well into the turn,and with a full lock turn that means looking almost backwards.

[The Stranger]

Is there any kind of exercises, games etc that I can do to help with target fixation problems while riding???

ALLWAYS focus on your vanishing point wherever that may be, the crest of a hill, the end of a strait, the point where the 2 road edges meet on a curve.

You will still be only too aware of the road right in front of you, only moments ago is was the subject of your focus and is now in your periferal vision.

[enigma51]

Did anyone watch the second wsbk race where chris vermuelen slides sideways into the corner before tipping it in and not sideways as in the back is coming past him more like the bike is pointing straight and moving to the right. They were talking about how its a normal reaction to go as close to the apex as possible even though its not the best line (If you ask me chris was leading so it could not have been to bad align). So dont be to hung up about it as the top guys must suffer from it as well. Its all about confidence and that takes time to build up

[TwoSeven]

Did anyone watch the second wsbk race where chris vermuelen slides sideways into the corner before tipping it in and not sideways as in the back is coming past him more like the bike is pointing straight and moving to the right. They were talking about how its a normal reaction to go as close to the apex as possible even though its not the best line (If you ask me chris was leading so it could not have been to bad align). So dont be to hung up about it as the top guys must suffer from it as well. Its all about confidence and that takes time to build up

Yeah, was watching that. is a pretty easy thing to do, just thought it was odd he was doing it there. Its a rather odd defensive technique .


Anyhow, as far as am aware, you're not supposed to look at anything for too long. If you are target fixing it means you dont have a visualisation pattern working.

[Back Fire]

sweet as, thanks you guys :rockon: I try my best!!

[SlowHand]

ha! Ive just been concentrating on this today, along with all the other stuff. Altho being a kid to all this, to do it properly requires me to ride a lot slower.

Anyone recommend fixating the eyes to the vanishing point/corner exit etc? Or scan the road furiously and then fix eyes, while extending the attention vision?

[cowpoos]

turn your head...not your eyes

your eyes will want to instictivly keep centering...

[Back Fire]

you people are legends!! can't get this kind of help anywhere else :rockon:

[sAsLEX]

you people are legends!! can't get this kind of help anywhere else :rockon:

go up the motor way when its quite and change lanes lots and start looking at the gaps in the cats eyes to hit the gaps then try not looking at the cats eyes eventually you can miss them either way

[babyB]

this may help

It is insufficient to simply post the advise that you should avoid target fixation. Saying "don't fixate" is all very well, but once it starts, you need a positive technique to get yourself out in one piece. So once you are in trouble, use target fixation to save your skin.

Don't look at the oncoming truck/tree/pothole; figure out where you would rather be and fixate on that instead. In fact, "target fixation" is an excellent way to control skids - fixate on a point dead ahead on the horizon, and you'll be well on the way towards automatically correcting most skids.

===========================================
The idea that your motorcycle will go where you're looking is merely a shorthand way of thinking about a phenomenon that virtually all drivers (of any kind of vehicle) have experienced before: that if you turn your head you tend to STEER in the direction you're looking. In fact, it might be clearer to simply acknowledge that it is HARD to steer in any direction other than the one you are looking at. ALL of your prior experience has taught you how to steer your vehicle where you want it to go. So, if you look where you want to go, you kick in all that prior experience and AUTOMATICALLY steer in that direction.

There is no magic here nor is there a hidden law of physics involved. Your bike (or automobile) TENDS to go in the direction you are looking because, via experience, you have taught yourself to steer, more or less subconsciously.

To take advantage of that phenomenon you merely need to actively look in the direction you want to go - away from danger. The rest is virtually subconscious reaction. Of course it takes more than a turn of your eyes or even your head. You still need to steer away from danger. Since it is HARD to steer away from what you're looking at, and easy (almost automatic) to steer in the direction you are looking, surely it makes sense to look where you want to go.

But, you say, there are many times when you look in directions other than the one you want to go. After all, one of the most important safety practices you engage in is to actively scan all around you looking out for hazards. Why is it that your motorcycle does not wander all over the road while you are scanning if it's true that it tends to go where you're looking? (More often than not, it does!)

The answer to that question is that when you are scanning or looking in a direction other than the one you want to go in you tell yourself to keep going in the direction you want - you turn OFF your 'autopilot'. If you don't believe me, next time you're out on the road and it is safe to do so, point your bike in the direction you want to go and look in any other direction. Notice how a part of your mind is CONSTANTLY VERIFYING that you are still on course. You do not normally have to do that - that's what your autopilot does for you.

[Keeping to the airplane analogy, we have been talking about how your eyes tend to control your ailerons (roll or lateral controls). A moving motorcycle does not have the equivalent of rudder or elevator controls.]

But we have also been well advised to keep our head and eyes 'up' and pointed at the horizon. Surely looking down will not cause a motorcycle to go down, or will it?

Well, not directly. If you are in a skid, however, and look down the odds are overwhelming that you will go down. That, because you will have failed to actively steer the bike in such a way as to try to keep it upright. But that's only one reason why you should keep your head up and eyes looking at the horizon. The other is that only by doing so can you actively scan for hazards or know, for sure, if your bike is vertical.

this came from MSF. the Motorcycle Safty Foundation is the internationaly recognized developer of the comprehensive, research based, Rider Education and Training System

[The Stranger]

How would you define horizon please?

[Hoon]

Look where you want to go! Its easier said than done, piece of piss practicing it while you are coasting down the motorway but when you are running wide towards a lamppost or coming around a blind turn on a race track and seeing bike parts/riders tumbling everywhere its a different story and takes some practice.

Unfortunately its these times of panic that provide the most effective training so next time that puddle of water freaks you out, or a cat runs across the road, or that crash barrier starts getting mighty close....get a grip and force yourself look where you want to go and use your peripheral vision to watch the area of concern.

When I'm riding on the road or track and get into trouble I often have to go "MUST...NOT...LOOK!!!!!..........MUST....NOT....LOO K!!!!!" and believe me sometimes it takes every ounce of willpower but it ends up turning a potential disaster into a non-event.

[The Stranger]

Yeah ok, I see a lot of people say to watch the horizon, I say vanishing point and define it.

I always consider the horizon to be the point where earth meets sky, which in many cases is a long way from the road.

Not trying to be pedantic, just wanting to get a handle on how people do things.

[cowpoos]

what i do is....as I'm aproching a corner...I'm looking at my turn in point...once I've decided it...I'm looking from there to the apex [or choosen apex] to the exit in one motion...[that usually happens alittle before turn in] and before I'm at the apex I'm looking as far down the road as I can...
I'm looking by turning my head...keeping my eyes straight...

[TwoSeven]

I dont watch the horizon, vanishing point, turn point or anything. Quite often I dont even look in the direction i'm traveling (eg. hot summer day on columbo st).

Why ?

I have a weired view on it.

Because i've long since learned how the bodies balance system works and use my body positions on the bike to make it do what I want. I figure It is this system that causes the 'look where you go' not the target fixation. I think the two are slightly related but its more of one of those cause/effect misnomers.

Target fixation simply means to me that the 'concious' part of the brain is dedicated to processing information it is receiving via the eyes. Steering is done using the balance system, which is a subconcious action.

If I set my body and head into the correct positions/angles then I find I will keep going in that direction until I change either of them - no matter what my eyes are looking at.

The misnomer that target fixation causes me to go where I look is simply because sight forms part of the balance system as I figure it, so everytime I move my head to look at something, my subconcious adjusts my body using the nerves in the head,neck, shoulders etc to go there (in order to maintain balance). I've found I can fool this system into working a different way by deliberately using different body postures. This is why I set up the body before I make the maneuver I want to make.

When I learned to snow-board I was always told, point your chest where you want to go, and look up hill when you want to turn (beginners stuff), but to me it just seems these are techniques for setting your body poistion to the correct balance points. I've found that the underside/tip of the chin actually controlls the direction the chest points, so I use this as a guide. If you point your chin where you want to go, the balance system seems to work.

Following on with this, i've noticed that racers look at the horizon or up the track or where ever because it puts the body in the most neutral position balance wise and gives optimum stability and feedback (kind of works with my chin theory).

I've found the really good athletes use a visualisation system on top of that where they imagine the perfect move using the 'minds eye'. When I learned it I was told that it forces the body to adopt the correct style via the subconcious (by overriding the physical sight). From what I can figure in psychology the Minds Eye, and Minds Voice are actually part of the optic/voice systems, just the voice box/optic nerve is partially disabled (not used) hence you see/hear in your mind.

As far as I know Visualisation removes target fixation simply by discarding the sight information being produced by the eyes and replacing it with 'hopefully' something better. Note: I have found if I visualise a crap line, I will take it - hence its wise not to panic on a corner. Visualisation works on the theory of pavlovian conditioning. This is the 'Motivation to respond' (C->R) and also Operant conditioning. This is creating the 'learned response' once the motivation has occured the S->R (its in the code books).

I have noticed that racers before a race on tv are all sitting staring into nothingness - I figure they are all visualising. They even visualise starts from what I can see. As an experiment your fingers on the keyboard and type with your eyes shut - odds on you will visualise where the keys are - you might not get them because of lack of repitition which I figure is what touch typing is, but in theory I figure you should be trying to visualise them.

I think its important to be able to switch it [visualisation] on and off. I think some riders get so stressed at race starts or faff about doing silly stuff they swamp themselves with negative info and dont snap out til half way round the circuit after they find they have gone backwards. I found that when I entered in competitions - sometimes I can swear i've been dreaming or something when I think about it afterwards. I've found doing the 'happy silly dance' shortly before the start works (its an old management technique) - since it changes my frame of mind to a positive one. I've found the happy dance triggers the CR (motivation) I mentioned above.

Anyway, I generally dont think about corners at all, or anything else. I just spend my time looking for hazards real or imaginary, then I visualise escape/evasion/hot chick scenarios. The bike riding seems to do itself. I find its only when I think about the corners that I tend to bugger them up or go excessively slow thru them since with road riding I have to do that because I need to scan them for pot-holes, sticks, cars etc.

Thats just my silly old view.

[Rhino]

Look where you want to go!

Unfortunately its these times of panic that provide the most effective training so next time that puddle of water freaks you out, or a cat runs across the road, or that crash barrier starts getting mighty close....get a grip and force yourself look where you want to go and use your peripheral vision to watch the area of concern.

Very good advice. When I was doing a Pilots License many years ago, one of the first things my Instructors taught me was "you will fly where you are looking. Always look where you want to go and you will be fine."

The same applies on a bike (or in a cage for that matter.) As Hoon has said, it takes practice, and lots of concentration when everything is turning to custard around you, but it will pay off big time.

[The Stranger]

I dont watch the horizon, vanishing point, turn point or anything. Quite often I dont even look in the direction i'm traveling (eg. hot summer day on columbo st).

EDIT:

I've found the really good athletes use a visualisation system on top of that where they imagine the perfect move using the 'minds eye'. Anyway, I generally dont think about corners at all, or anything else. I just spend my time looking for hazards real or imaginary, then I visualise escape/evasion/hot chick scenarios.

Isn't this a contradiction?

Sure visualisation is a great tool. Most athletes use it as do most professionals. The mind can't distinguish reality from that vividly imagined. By way of example I am sure we have all awoken form a vivid dream at some stage and thought what we had just experienced was real.

However no matter how you visualise say a corner, should there be a cow on the other side the possible permutations would overload the mind.

The safest (practical) way would be to follow the vanishing point with your eye.

Yes use visualisation, see yourself selecting the turn in point, slowing for the corner on the front brake, setting your body position just right, trailing the bear brake in, countersteering to tip the bike in, gently applying the throttle whilst releasing the rear brake etc etc, but don't loose sight of the vanishing point cause you are about to go there and you really do want to know what is there before you get there.

[Zapf]

my head draws vertical virtual walls on parts of the road where I don't want to be.

So I just look pass all those places and look at where I want to be, and then draw a virtual line along my path of travel... and look at if anything intersects that line or has a chance of intersecting that line...

if not then I start again with my virtual walls...

[pritch]

If you are in a skid, however, and look down the odds are overwhelming that you will go down.

True. The horizon is an important part of the body's balance mechanism.
Look at pictures of the GP riders cornering, the bike and body are leaning way over but generally the head is at or very near vertical. (OK I know Schwantz was something of an exception..)

If anyone needs convincing of this just stand on one foot, put your hands in your pockets, now close your eyes...

[TwoSeven]

True. The horizon is an important part of the body's balance mechanism.
Look at pictures of the GP riders cornering, the bike and body are leaning way over but generally the head is at or very near vertical. (OK I know Schwantz was something of an exception..)

If anyone needs convincing of this just stand on one foot, put your hands in your pockets, now close your eyes...

See my post above. However, I think that the horizon is not quite the correct orientation point (I dont have that special device thingy you use to measure it) - I think perhaps you'll still be looking down about 5 degrees if you just plain look at it (I suspect many people from the northern hemisphere look down anyway because NZ has excessive glare, I do - so will people that dont have much self confidence). Thats why I suggested the technique of using the underside of the chin (the horizontal line), and learn to keep that parallel with the ground, rather than being misled by your eyes.

There are certain balance techniques where you actually need to change your balance system using your head position - mid-corner and corner exit is one of the best known.

[Ixion]

..

If anyone needs convincing of this just stand on one foot, put your hands in your pockets, now close your eyes...

Uh - I just tried this. What is supposed to happen? (Other than getting an aching foot)

[TwoSeven]

Your balance will be messed up. Normally you'll chake a bit as your body rapidly tries to counter not having a visual orientation. After a while you'll relax and become more neutral. It proves the eyes are part of the balance system.

As an extension to the exercise with your eyes closed, turn your head quickly left to right. It will mess up the balance system in your ears (its similar to the spin-around-test). :)