Thinking of building an extension, don't know where to start [Archive]

Mike.Gayner

29th January 2018, 13:00

Can anyone here send me in the right direction? We live in a fairly small 3brm house (120sqm incl garage, built in 1990s), and we're considering building a small extension. The idea is to convert part of the lounge/dining spot into a bedroom/ensuite, and add 15sqm extension to recover some lounge area. This would also include a new kitchen (needed anyway) and a lot of new glazing.

Do I look around for a good builder and work with him? Or should I be getting in touch with an architect/designer? I'm completely hopeless with design, so I can't even visualise if my plan will work well.

Mike.Gayner

29th January 2018, 13:14

If it helps, this is my idea. The extension is the part that extends out bottom-right. Currently the entrance to our house is a sliding glass door directly into lounge, so we'd also be building an actual entrance way.

Current: https://imgur.com/a/CZoo3

Proposed: https://imgur.com/wN4KL7S

Akzle

29th January 2018, 13:31

.

Do I look around for a good builder and work with him? Or should I be getting in touch with an architect/designer? I'm completely hopeless with design, so I can't even visualise if my plan will work well.

you'll need both. and consent etc.

possibile things stopping you are height to boundary.
also you're removing a good section of load bearing (east wall in image) which will probably be an issue as i'm sensing hip trusses... either need to put in massive bearing lintel or re-truss. neither attractive or cheap options, bearer might not be possible if subfloor can't be bought up for point loads.

so yes. find some cunt who knows what the fuck they're about and go from there.

Akzle

29th January 2018, 13:33

also, practically, having an entrance either facing a bedroom door is weird, or a 90degree would make moving furniture and shit through difficult.

Mike.Gayner

29th January 2018, 13:49

you'll need both. and consent etc.

possibile things stopping you are height to boundary.
also you're removing a good section of load bearing (east wall in image) which will probably be an issue as i'm sensing hip trusses... either need to put in massive bearing lintel or re-truss. neither attractive or cheap options, bearer might not be possible if subfloor can't be bought up for point loads.

so yes. find some cunt who knows what the fuck they're about and go from there.

Cheers, good to know. Correct, hip roof, so there are definitely engineering considerations. Floor is concrete slab.

Regarding the section, that's the reason for this "sub optimal" extension design - there's nowhere else to go that will realistically work with the boundaries and section shape. Still plenty of section out that side (it's a huge deck presently, would be halved and it would still be large-ish).

also, practically, having an entrance either facing a bedroom door is weird, or a 90degree would make moving furniture and shit through difficult.

Yeah that's true. This house is already a strange design, so can't get any worse. The bedroom door would probably be on the south partition.

Good input, thanks.

Mike.Gayner

29th January 2018, 13:50

Do the room sizes make sense? I have difficulty visualising this stuff. We don't mind small rooms and a small house, but obviously everything has to make sense and be usable.

Mike.Gayner

29th January 2018, 13:53

This is standing on the deck, facing the wall that would be extended. You can see I've marked roughly where the extension would go.

https://imgur.com/a/Nfg9I

eldog

29th January 2018, 14:26

find some cunt who knows what the fuck they're about and go from there.

I am looking for that person.....

mike have you considered moving?

check the direction of sun relative to the building. I consider having the living areas on the north facing ish side a bonus.

Mike.Gayner

29th January 2018, 14:29

Yeah we've been watching the property market. That's what has led us to the idea of extending - Tauranga property is just so insanely expensive now.

I have NO IDEA what an extension like this would cost, but if you could do it for $100k (including extension, new bedroom, new ensuite, new kitchen) it would easily be worthwhile versus moving.

Akzle

29th January 2018, 17:03

I am looking for that person.....
you know me son... five bucks and a baggie =D

check the direction of sun relative to the building. I consider having the living areas on the north facing ish side a bonus.

there's a lot of designs which should be mandatory, that aren't.
passive solar (north is glass with long eave/ deciduous tree cover), thermal mass.. blahblah. look it up. hippy greenie shit.

Floor is concrete slab.
unless you got lucky and they did a 5" slab and/or a mossive footing (unlikely, at a guess) you could be shit out of luck for point loading it.

i'm going to suggest re-trussing that entire end of the house, then re-roofing and lining will fail the cost-benefit analysis. especially if you've got old wide stud spacings.

i'd be inclined to shitcan the garage and use that space.

Akzle

29th January 2018, 17:11

actually... if the roof plane is as i expect then you could feasibly continue the W-E plane and end up with two valleys for the N protrusion. will need to pour more concrete and tie it to the main slab.

Mike.Gayner

29th January 2018, 17:20

Thanks for the input. Who should I consult about this stuff? A builder? Engineer? Architect?

Akzle

29th January 2018, 17:45

Thanks for the input. Who should I consult about this stuff? A builder? Engineer? Architect?

the word "architect" immediately trebles the cost. i avoid them like the plague unless they started life as a building apprentice.

builder, would be my first choice. a good one will know what's needed, and who's who. if you can get a local recommendation from friends//family that's best.

you'll need an LBP to do the work - able to sign off CCC on slabs, framing, roofing and cladding (at least three different quals) - which could end up being three different guys, or not.

and you'll need consent plans for council - some LBP can/will provide this. otherwise find a draughtsman, and the builder will then work to their plans.

your local council will probably have downloadable consent applications, which will detail everything you/your LBP needs to provide.

otherwise just go for bust, do the work, fill out a CoA application (need roughly the same info, but saves the cost/hassle of pre-approval) and only bother submitting it if some officious twat comes knocking, or you sell the place.

take photos. lots of photos.

YellowDog

29th January 2018, 18:08

Mike buddy, it is always best to talk to a builder who knows what's what. He'll tell you how it needs to look, so it's a straightforward job and then get a draughtsman to put it on paper to present to the council. Architects are subjective creatures and will take great pleasure in costing you 3x what you need to spend, based upon your desires and their engineering expertise. And if they are really good, the roof will leak and it will all be the builder's fault and not their impractical design :yawn:

eldog

29th January 2018, 19:26

you know me son... five bucks and a baggie =D

Can do, didn’t know you have moved into the Auckland building business.:yes:

Akzle

29th January 2018, 19:33

Can do, didn’t know you have moved into the Auckland building business.:yes:

anything for a price...

auckland incurs the "fuck you aucklander" tax though. about 9000%

russd7

29th January 2018, 19:36

what about converting the garage in to a livable space and chucking on a new garage.

WNJ

29th January 2018, 19:39

We recently looked into adding another room and bathroom onto our house, we asked a builder to come and give us some advise and they told us they couldn’t even give us minor advice on what to do without plans being drawn up, apparently new laws stopping them even measuring outlines for spaces ???? BS Or not ??? Haven’t looked into it more yet as not sure we should spent the 2grand or more on plans if not going to build or move, might be almost cheaper in our case to buy a new house with more space ,

sidecar bob

29th January 2018, 19:51

I'm aware you are in Welcome Bay. If you can turn up Russell Braithwaite for that job you should be fairly happy. Old school legend builder.

russd7

29th January 2018, 19:59

I'm aware you are in Welcome Bay. If you can turn up Russell Braithwaite for that job you should be fairly happy. Old school legend builder.

John Garrett for site work, he in welcome bay and would also be able to point you in direction of good builder and who not to use.

Swoop

29th January 2018, 20:01

90's building? Monolithic cladding too...

Put some money aside for "leaky-building" shit that gets discovered.

BMWST?

29th January 2018, 20:10

there is no problem putting trusses on for that extension, the new girder truss would support the existing trusses or rafters and only load the exterior footings.You need to get a draughstman .

Honest Andy

29th January 2018, 20:21

I vote Azxil on everything he's said about your job...

It's good that you've got an idea of what you want, or at least, what you want to achieve. Take those ideas to a draughtsman and they should be able to turn it into something practical. Be prepared to change some stuff to make it easier or cheaper. Make sure your draughtsman knows that you don't mind changes to make the job cheaper and that they have the imagination to do it. If you talk to a builder first they will put you in touch with a draghtsman that they prefer, they will have their reasons for preference...

Oh and one other small thing. Actually it's a really fucken big-arse thing: on the photo your house looks like a plaster disaster. If that's the case, in our neck of the woods an extension like this would probably incur the need for a total reclad with a cavity system. That'll blow your 100k budget out of the window. The windows that you'll probably need to replace with double glazed...
Check with your council though, I've been wrong before :niceone:

BMWST?

29th January 2018, 20:26

what about converting the garage in to a livable space and chucking on a new garage.

the garage probably isnt insulated ..not insurmountable but.....

Akzle

29th January 2018, 20:39

there is no problem putting trusses on for that extension, the new girder truss would support the existing trusses or rafters and only load the exterior footings.You need to get a draughstman .

footings aren't designed for point loads like that. that's a 6m span.
and even an lvl truss is going to be 150x500 or more. a possibility i hadn't really considered, not sure it'd fit in the cavity.

and then what roof would you put on the extension?

BMWST?

29th January 2018, 22:13

footings aren't designed for point loads like that. that's a 6m span.
and even an lvl truss is going to be 150x500 or more. a possibility i hadn't really considered, not sure it'd fit in the cavity.

and then what roof would you put on the extension?
a girder truss is a truss just like the trusses that will span over the new extension (5.6 m span?),but is designed to carry other trusses The chords may be bigger and the nail plates will be bigger.A concrete slab edge will easily take that point load.There will be girder trusses taking loads like that already in that house.I am a frame and truss detailer with 20 yrs experience. Do you want a truss layout tomoorow night?

Akzle

30th January 2018, 04:40

a girder truss is a truss just like the trusses that will span over the new extension (5.6 m span?),but is designed to carry other trusses The chords may be bigger and the nail plates will be bigger.A concrete slab edge will easily take that point load.
ryt. like the thing i said in #11. i was thinking you meant a different thing. my bad.

There will be girder trusses taking loads like that already in that house.I am a frame and truss detailer with 20 yrs experience. Do you want a truss layout tomoorow night?

no but this guy does. so, sharpish eh.

BMWST?

30th January 2018, 06:08

ryt. like the thing i said in #11. i was thinking you meant a different thing. my bad.

no but this guy does. so, sharpish eh.

righto for illustrative purposes only

Akzle

30th January 2018, 06:57

i was thinking you meant a different thing

this thing
http://files.servicemagic.com/files/editorial/images/0406otj-truss-01.jpg

Akzle

30th January 2018, 06:59

righto for illustrative purposes only

nah spec it out and email it to him for free.
i think i know what you mean.

Mike.Gayner

30th January 2018, 07:14

Lots of good input in this thread, will get in touch with a builder soon.

I'm aware you are in Welcome Bay. If you can turn up Russell Braithwaite for that job you should be fairly happy. Old school legend builder.

John Garrett for site work, he in welcome bay and would also be able to point you in direction of good builder and who not to use.

Do you have contact numbers handy for these guys?

90's building? Monolithic cladding too...

Put some money aside for "leaky-building" shit that gets discovered.

Yeah well aware of this, thanks.

on the photo your house looks like a plaster disaster. If that's the case, in our neck of the woods an extension like this would probably incur the need for a total reclad with a cavity system.

You are correct, shitty cement-board-nailed-to-frame job. But why would this require a total reclad? Are council interested in parts of the building that we're not even touching? We would be recladding the section of the house including the lounge/kitchen/new extension, but ideally wouldn't be touching the cladding from the hallway back.

For those recommending turning the garage into living space, this doesn't really work. Having a garage is non-negotiable for me, and there's nowhere else to stick one.

sidecar bob

30th January 2018, 09:07

http://www.metrapanel.co.nz/installers/windemere-developments/
One of a few companies he is involved with.
Has the same number as in '99, that's usually an encouraging sign.

Laava

30th January 2018, 11:29

If you dont know where to start Mike, try having a play with plans machine. https://plansmachine.co.nz
It is free and easy to use and will give you an exact idea of what you can get in regard to floor plan at least and roof plan elevations as well if you get the hang of using it.
You can just dimension out your existing house and then add what and where you want until you are happy. Having this basic concept plan, for free, can save you a lot of time and grief. I recommended it to a friend of mine building in Waipawa and she just turned up at a draughtsman with the concept plans and had a permit for exactly what she wanted in a month...
Worth a look...

Mike.Gayner

30th January 2018, 11:32

TheDemonLord

30th January 2018, 11:43

I always use this guy - he seems to always be able to fix it:

Link to site. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO_PL3V1c4Y)

Honest Andy

30th January 2018, 13:44

You are correct, shitty cement-board-nailed-to-frame job. But why would this require a total reclad? Are council interested in parts of the building that we're not even touching?

Yeah not entirely sure, I'm just a subtrade. Seen customers surprised by it though. Something to do with having to ensure that the rest of the house is up to code before allowing work on an alteration. Could be wrong though ;) Check with your council to be certain, it's just a phone call to one of their inspectors, or ask the draughtsman/builder/project manager when you get one.

Or just enclose the deck and call it a sunroom... don't need a permit for that :woohoo: