So a Powercycle is now a motorcycle for accident stats

[cheshirecat]

Min of transport and now Min of dubious stats
'1 Motorcycles as used here includes powercycles and mopeds'

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/crashfacts/motorcyclecrashfacts/

[Akzle]

so ...

[AllanB]

Be adding E-bikes next.

[Berries]

Min of transport and now Min of dubious stats
'1 Motorcycles as used here includes powercycles and mopeds'

http://www.transport.govt.nz/research/crashfacts/motorcyclecrashfacts/
The Land Transport Rule defines a bicycle as

Cycle—
(a) means a vehicle that has at least 2 wheels and that is designed primarily to be propelled by the muscular energy of the rider; and
(b) includes a power-assisted cycle

So if you are getting your knickers in a twist about all these electric assisted bikes there is no need. Read this as well. (https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2013-au4618)

Don't quote me, but I suspect that their definition of a powercycle is a bicycle with a petrol engine connected to it. Have seen one of these jobbies on the road around here once but they are so rare as to be insignificant in any stats. If you are really concerned about motorbike crash stats being skewed then you should have a look at twats on MX bikes.

[rastuscat]

so ...

Exactly.

In other news, I had muesli for breakfast.

[Akzle]

Exactly.

In other news, I had muesli for breakfast.

that'll keep ya regular

[eelracing]

[QUOTE=Berries;1131088157If you are really concerned about motorbike crash stats being skewed then you should have a look at twats on MX bikes.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but would you care to elaborate on that statement.Cos I get the distinct impression that you mite be a car driver who only rides to the local cafe on sunny Sundays.

[cheshirecat]

And the response within 12 hours is.

"You are correct, powercycles are not e-bikes.
In the published crash data powercycles/mopeds and motorcycles are often included under the one heading of "Motorcycles". For the purposes of registration and licensing a powercycle/moped has a power output of 2kw or under and a maximum design speed of 50km/h or under. These are often step through ‘scooter’ style motorbikes.

At this stage e-bikes are included with bicycles, but NZTA are redeveloping their crash data base and may have plans to include these as a separate category in the future. To find out what they plan to do you could contact them directly at: cas.administrator@nzta.govt.nz"

On another motorcycle accidents are quoted by the millions of miles which greatly distorts the accident rate.

On a wider note, this is part of the wider concern about motorcycle accidents and representation by regional councils who are able to spend inordinate monies on cycling and discriminating - there is no better word - against us when motorcycles can be part of the solution. ie in Wellington there are three times as many cycle accidents as motorcycles and our city accident numbers (not rates) are lower than cycling and pedestrians. Recent submissions to WCC got us an extra 4 parking places but no recognition in their transport plan. What would have been the case if a few more motorcyclists submitted concerns.

Go lobby.

[Moi]

... If you are really concerned about motorbike crash stats being skewed then you should have a look at twats on MX bikes.

Also consider that farmbikes / quads used only on a farm are included with motorbike crash stats... even if the crash occurs on the farm... ACC is also involved with this issue...

Stats should reflect where the crash occurred - public road, public area [forestry area accessible by motocross etc] and private land [farms etc]...

[neil.]

I'm sorry but would you care to elaborate on that statement.Cos I get the distinct impression that you mite be a car driver who only rides to the local cafe on sunny Sundays.


The impression i get is that "motorcycle deaths/accidents" does not only mean "motorcycle deaths /accidents on the road", but includes all deaths/accidents including farm bikes, trail rides etc.

at least that's what i think the poster is alluding to?

[Berries]

I'm sorry but would you care to elaborate on that statement.Cos I get the distinct impression that you mite be a car driver who only rides to the local cafe on sunny Sundays.
Sure. I commute every day on my bike and have been riding all weathers for over 20 years. Sadly I don't get to do lots of miles at the weekends since the kids arrived. So oddly it is the reverse of what you said, I am stuck in car at the weekends watching all the sunny Sunday riders. I have also carried out quite a few analyses of the national crash database specific to motorcycling. Have posted some of that on KB in ACC threads if you want to search for it.

I often look deeper at the data to find out about make and model, you know, are sports bikes worse than cruisers etc etc. Every time I look at the motorbike data I see unregistered MX bikes ridden by people on the road falling off for a multitude of reasons. When you see any motorcycle crash stats they are included. I personally don't think that unregistered off road bikes being ridden by twats on the road should be used to influence the public about motorbike safety. Jeez, the data even has quad bikes in it. I resent being forced in to paying a levy not only because of these people but all the sunny Sunday riders you tried to link me with.

Apologies if you thought I was slagging off all MX riders.

[Berries]

Also consider that farmbikes / quads used only on a farm are included with motorbike crash stats... even if the crash occurs on the farm... ACC is also involved with this issue...

Stats should reflect where the crash occurred - public road, public area [forestry area accessible by motocross etc] and private land [farms etc]...
Just to confirm, I was only talking about the on road crashes that NZTA/MOT report on, not the different data sets that ACC use. You could argue that an unregistered farm bike crossing the road between paddocks that gets taken out by a stock truck should be included in the crash data, and it would be, but if a quad rolled on a farm it would not be.

No problem with this approach, my issue is that someone riding his CR450 or whatever at night on the road in the wet with clearly unsuitable tyres and a little bit pissed should be excluded. The general non-public would likely disagree.

[Akzle]

.

Go lobby.

why.
whingeing on the internet is easier and about as effective

[cheshirecat]

why.
whingeing on the internet is easier and about as effective

Especially when you're good at it.

[Moi]

Just to confirm, I was only talking about the on road crashes that NZTA/MOT report on, not the different data sets that ACC use. You could argue that an unregistered farm bike crossing the road between paddocks that gets taken out by a stock truck should be included in the crash data, and it would be, but if a quad rolled on a farm it would not be.

No problem with this approach, my issue is that someone riding his CR450 or whatever at night on the road in the wet with clearly unsuitable tyres and a little bit pissed should be excluded. The general non-public would likely disagree.

Sorry, I was under the impression that ALL crashes were recorded and included by NZTA/MoT as opposed to the data sets used by ACC - that's a different can of worms!

If all crashes on a public road are included, then perhaps those that are not registered should be flagged in some way so they are then excluded from the data when discussing PTW [powered two wheeler] crashes on public roads - only those PTWs that are legally permitted to use a public road.

[rastuscat]

A large part of the problem is the way CAS data is gathered. A lot of it comes from Police Traffic Crash Reports, filled in by people who don't bother checking the accuracy of the data they are gathering.

TCRs have several purposes. They inform insurance companies, they generate information through CAS, they are a court document in the case of prosecution, they are disclosed as Official Information as required. A lot of which leads to inaccuracy.

In particular, a lot of data gatherers don't know the difference between a cycle, a power assisted pedal cycle, a moped, and a motorcycle.

The other issue is that the data gatherer often has 10 other jobs to do, so jjust fills in what has to be done to get it past his/her supervisor, so they can go and do the other 10 jobs. Haste diminishes accuracy.

Just sayin. Garbage in equals garbage out.

[Akzle]

Especially when you're good at it.

not to diss, bro.

you do you.
Maybe they'll giver you another 4 parking spaces next election-brIbe then you'll have 8!!!!11011!!

[ExSp33db1rd]

At age 16 ( now 84 ) growing up in England, I exchanged my school bike rear wheel for one containing a 25cc 2-stroke petrol engine built into it. ( A Cyclemaster) This then legally turned my bike into a motor-bike, and I had to pay to register it as such, attach license plates, and - Shock! Horror! - undergo a full motor cycle road test. ( no written theory exams in UK in those days ).

The Examiner indicated a route to follow in the town centre, which he could observe from his standpoint, and note my actions and hand signals at junctions, Halt signs, a pedestrian crossing etc. Returning to my starting point he then leapt into the road with hand outstretched and yelled HALT ! My bike only had the original bike brakes of course, but I managed to avoid hitting him and he gave me a licence. I have never undergone another motorcycle licence test in any of the various International jurisdictions that I have had the pleasure of visiting and finding a motor bike to ride, and never will now.

Having gained my licence on a modified push bike that day 68 years ago, I could then have gone out and bought a 1,000 cc Vincent Black Shadow of the era - 'cept I didn't have the money, tho' I did ultimately upgrade the bike to a 125cc Beeza Bantam ! My current steed is kaput awaiting the sourcing of a replacement starter motor - see other thread, and Summer is acumin in. Murphy is always with us.