Is it illegal to ZING on your bike?

[MD]

I posted this in the Paikok Hill thread but since I've been accused of a new crime I wasn't aware of I will give it it's own thread! Be warned all that if you ride in a zing manner or even lurk at the roadside with the look that you intend to do some zinging you will get booked.

Quote

Mr Plod gave me a long lecture at the side of the Piecock hill road today. He told me he was out to get 'my type' Not sure what type I am? But he was a grumpy unsociable shit. I'm always polite to the Police and give them full respect for doing the toughest job in NZ but this guy needed some serious customer service training on how to speak to the public, especially someone doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG.
Let me explain I was out to scrub in new tyres and in no hurry fully aware the limit had been lowered and HP would be all over that road. Soon as I reached Patahunui I passed a Cop car going the other way, no prob I was daudling along and at the same time I see a cop car ahead of me- going in the same direction. Still, no prob I'll just cruise along behind him and enjoy the tight bends to scrub the tyres. Constantly checked my speed. He was doing 82-86kph on my speedo and I was behind him for 10 minutes atleast.
I slowed for about 30 secs twice so I could enjoy some of the bends he had to really slow for, BUT I made sure I kept my speed under 85kph expecting him to slow to keep an eye on me or turn back. Finally I stopped to stretch my legs and let him go on ahead. He comes back and pulls over. Feeling 100% guilt free I smiled and said hello in my friendly voice. Then he starts with his rant about how I know your type you were slowing so you could speed well guess what we're patrolling this road and your type speeding and crossing the centreline are what we are after. I tried to thank him about the centreline as the real problem but every time I opened my mouth he told me to shut up and listen or I would be in trouble. Told me to 'shut up' about 7 times.
I tried to tell him I never cross the centre- but he cut me off with ''shut up I don't want to hear your excuses... When I finally got a word in that I wasn't speeding he went ape shit that he clocked my top speed at 88kph [in the 80kph zone that was 100 a week before] but I wont give you a ticket for that today. He added another warning that IF I go over by 11kph he 'll have me- no warnings. But I didn't I tried to squeeze in- no but if you do! (What? I thought to myself I might rape and butcher 50 people one day and this guy wants to lock me up now just in case).
but the best bit was he said he could see me zinging around the bends [on my side of the road by the way] Three times he used the word zinging. now I'm not sure of the legal definition and penalties for zinging within the speed limit or lurking with possible intent to zing but apparently I had that look. I was tempted to ask him to give me a ticket for zinging just so I could test it in court but he was in too foul a mood for humour. Finally he said you got anyything to say now. I replied, No I'm far to scared to speak to you or dare open my mouth and I never cross the centreline.
I went over the hill and came back to pass him booking a car.
I'd have to say this is the first time I've meet a Policeman I didn't like. Shame.

[HDTboy]

Does one need to be below the speed limit to be booked for Zinging?
What is the penalty if one Zings out of tune?
If you get 5 tickets for Zinging, do you get a free Zinger burger at KFC?
Is it only sprotsbike riders who Zing? Or can those on cruisers Zing too?
Can car drivers be booked for Zinging?
If one Zings on a Two stroke, does it go "Zinga ding ding Zing baaap"?
Do you have a valid defence if you have to Zing for your supper?

[James Deuce]

Sounds like the prat that had a go at me at the top of the Rimutakas, Christmas day 2003.

You do realise you can complain about this dude?

[Brett]

:banana: zinging..baaahahahahahah

That is BS. Typical local yobbo's i think. Met a fare few of them in my time on the roads...met some good blokes too. Some who could have clocked me for big things but didn't. Shame one of them is anal.

[John]

be warey of the zinging two stroke twins zinging at lights make haste to move out of their way...

Maybe he like forgot his meds man, thats a sad sad story - feel you pain.

[Hitcher]

Is zinging legal? I don't zing zo.

[MD]

Sounds like the prat that had a go at me at the top of the Rimutakas, Christmas day 2003.

You do realise you can complain about this dude?
Yeah I thought about it at the time because he was well out of order but the Police get far too much flak thrown at them already.
Considering the violent, abusive arseholes real police have to deal with I was at the opposite end of the sprectrum and didn't deserve the atitude he gave me for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

[SPORK]

Sounds like you found a distant cousin to Bill O'Reilly!

Bad luck.

[Patrick]

Sounds like the prat that had a go at me at the top of the Rimutakas, Christmas day 2003.

You do realise you can complain about this dude?

You should!!! What a tosser...let his bosses know and they can give him some crap. Must have been waiting for the donut/coffee special and was hanging out. Gives the others a bad name I say...

[ZorsT]

I asked a police officer about riding speed below the posted limit, on very twisty roads.

He said that they can't do anything until you "stuff up" (crash)

then they can get you for careless/dangerous riding...

[Storm]

Complain mate, if he is being a dick, his boss needs to know. S'like voting- if you do it, then you have full whinging rights, no mattter what the outcome







And I wish my bike could Zing like yours sometimes

[Skyryder]

Well if this guy is as bad as you say and 'the hill' seems to be 'his' patch. Get ya selves a nice little hand held tape. One of those cassette types. Next time he starts up pull out the tape. Turn it on give time date and those present. You watch the attitude change. Take control. Ask for his name, and here's the catch that realy pisses them the name of his superior officer. What some of these fuckwits forget is that they are our servants. We are not theirs.

Skyryder

[Jackrat]

Yeah I thought about it at the time because he was well out of order but the Police get far too much flak thrown at them already.
Considering the violent, abusive arseholes real police have to deal with I was at the opposite end of the sprectrum and didn't deserve the atitude he gave me for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

Yeah well you zingers deserve everything you get.
Buy your self a twin an learn how to zap like us respectable types.
Us zappers don't get that type of treatment from the forces of law an order,cause we's respectable we is.



Make a formal complaint on the arsehole,I bet you won't be the first.
He had no cause to even pull you over, let alone lay that crap on ya'.
Happy zingin'. :ride:

[James Deuce]

(snip)


Make a formal complaint on the arsehole,I bet you won't be the first.
He had no cause to even pull you over, let alone lay that crap on ya'.
Happy zingin'. :ride:

That's the thing though. He didn't pull him over. He invaded personal time and space with no reason at all. MD was parked, legally, and minding his own business when the prat stuck his oar in. If MD had quietly put his helmet on and ridden off (legally) what would he have charged him with? Ignoring a Police Officer?

The guy needs a break at best, or some attitude revision at worst.

[N4CR]

HI I ENJOY THE ZING FEELING. GREAT FEELING ZING AROUND ON THE SPORTSBIKE. WHEN IN GROUPS BEWARE OF EXCESS ZING AS MAY CAUSE ATTENTION TO ONESELF.
ZING APPLY TO GOOD TWISTY ROADS WITH NO POLICE MAN AROUND THE CORNER.


PASTE THESE RULES PROFITABLY INTO YOUR HATS:

1. DON'T GET ZING-SLAPPING OR YOU MAY COME OFF THE STEED (BEWARE OF THE FAST ZING).
2. BEWARE OF THE SLIP DEMON WHEN ZING, CAN CAUSE A PANICS.
3. ZING MAY BE CAUSES THE ACCIDENTAL CRASH DUE TO OVERZING.
4. POLICEMAN HAS NO APPROVAL WHILE PLAYING THE ZING, BEWARE OF GRUMPY.
5. USE THE COUNTERSTEER WHILE ZING.
6. BEWARE OF THE PLAYFUL PUKEKO MAKING SPORT IN THE ZING-WAY, AVOID ENTANGLEMENT WITH RAM AIR.
7. TOOTLE THE HORN TRUMPET MELODIOUSLY OR SHOUT HI, HI, TO MAKE ZING PASSAGE KNOWN AROUND THE CORNER, OR ZING WILL INCREASE UNKNOWN TO YOURSELF.
8. BE NO CAUSE WARNING TO PASSENGERS OF THE FOOT AND HORSES, DO NOT CAUSE ALARM TO THEM BY EXPLODING THE ZING-BOX.
9. KEEP ALL WHEEL ON THE ROADWAYS WHILE PERFORM THE ZING. ONE WHEEL MAY RESULT IN DANGEROUS TRAVELS.
10. ENSURE SPROTSBIKE IN COMPLETE ENGINE COMFORT BEFORE CREATE THE ZINGS.

ZING MOTORCYCLE, JAPAN, 1962.

[sels1]

Like everything, you get good cops and not-so-good cops. Mr good cop waved me in today to point out I was doing around 60 odd in a 50 and gave me a tut tut warning and sent me on my way. Nice chap, I thanked him very much.
You obviously got the other one!

Maybe some feedback to his superiors would be good - not so much a complaint, more "some PR training required" ?????

[k14]

That's the thing though. He didn't pull him over. He invaded personal time and space with no reason at all. MD was parked, legally, and minding his own business when the prat stuck his oar in. If MD had quietly put his helmet on and ridden off (legally) what would he have charged him with? Ignoring a Police Officer?
Yeah exactly what i was thinking. I'd get out a pen and paper, write down his badge number then politely say "I dont deserve to listen to this, if you aren't going to ticket or arrest me have a good day, good bye", and ride off. Being very careful to do nothing to warrant him ticketing me. He has no right to barge in like that, if he thought you were dangerous or doing something illegal he should have pulled you over when you were moving.

Dickheads like this that gets the public perception of the police so bad. Makes the admiration for good cops (like the guys on here) that much higher. They get tagged with the same stereotypes as these guys.

[Hitcher]

There's little point in being sarcastic around an officer of the law, no matter how much in the "right" you may think you are. They do have powers of arrest, handcuffs, pepper spray, batons of varying lengths and a Glock 9mm. I'm not saying don't complain, but never upset a Wookie.

[speights_bud]

Well if this guy is as bad as you say and 'the hill' seems to be 'his' patch. Get ya selves a nice little hand held tape. One of those cassette types. Next time he starts up pull out the tape. Turn it on give time date and those present. You watch the attitude change. Take control. Ask for his name, and here's the catch that realy pisses them the name of his superior officer. What some of these fuckwits forget is that they are our servants. We are not theirs.

Skyryder
Or.... mount the hand held in the front of the bike, and when pulled over meet him infront of the bike, let him go ranting on and on, THEN remove the tape and show him it. Now that would be of use for many rides to come... :bleh:

[speedpro]

It wasn't raining was it? You don't want to be caught zinging in the rain.

[oldrider]

HI I ENJOY THE ZING FEELING. GREAT FEELING ZING AROUND ON THE SPORTSBIKE. WHEN IN GROUPS BEWARE OF EXCESS ZING AS MAY CAUSE ATTENTION TO ONESELF.
ZING APPLY TO GOOD TWISTY ROADS WITH NO POLICE MAN AROUND THE CORNER.


PASTE THESE RULES PROFITABLY INTO YOUR HATS:

1. DON'T GET ZING-SLAPPING OR YOU MAY COME OFF THE STEED (BEWARE OF THE FAST ZING).
2. BEWARE OF THE SLIP DEMON WHEN ZING, CAN CAUSE A PANICS.
3. ZING MAY BE CAUSES THE ACCIDENTAL CRASH DUE TO OVERZING.
4. POLICEMAN HAS NO APPROVAL WHILE PLAYING THE ZING, BEWARE OF GRUMPY.
5. USE THE COUNTERSTEER WHILE ZING.
6. BEWARE OF THE PLAYFUL PUKEKO MAKING SPORT IN THE ZING-WAY, AVOID ENTANGLEMENT WITH RAM AIR.
7. TOOTLE THE HORN TRUMPET MELODIOUSLY OR SHOUT HI, HI, TO MAKE ZING PASSAGE KNOWN AROUND THE CORNER, OR ZING WILL INCREASE UNKNOWN TO YOURSELF.
8. BE NO CAUSE WARNING TO PASSENGERS OF THE FOOT AND HORSES, DO NOT CAUSE ALARM TO THEM BY EXPLODING THE ZING-BOX.
9. KEEP ALL WHEEL ON THE ROADWAYS WHILE PERFORM THE ZING. ONE WHEEL MAY RESULT IN DANGEROUS TRAVELS.
10. ENSURE SPROTSBIKE IN COMPLETE ENGINE COMFORT BEFORE CREATE THE ZINGS.

ZING MOTORCYCLE, JAPAN, 1962.
Are you WINJA in disguise. Haven't noticed any posts from him lately are you sure you are tristank?

[John]

Are you WINJA in disguise. Haven't noticed any posts from him lately are you sure you are tristank?
OI YOU! YOUR THE RINGINGLEADER GET IN THE FRIDGE.....

[MD]

There's little point in being sarcastic around an officer of the law, no matter how much in the "right" you may think you are. They do have powers of arrest, handcuffs, pepper spray, batons of varying lengths and a Glock 9mm. I'm not saying don't complain, but never upset a Wookie.
You aren't getting horny over this are you Hitcher? all that talk of handcuffs, batons of varying length ! but only a 9mm ... oh glock sorry mis-read that.

Thanks for the support there crew. I'm not sure what type he thought I was but I'm not interested in complaining about the young lad. Might have been his first day on the job and he had to speak to an undesirable motorcycle type. You know what motorcyclists are like. They are all scum of the earth.
Thinking about it now though I should have told him I was disappointed in his atitude and roadside manner towards someone he himself admitted had not exceeded the speed limit or done anything wrong. The thing is on another day he could have stitched me up big time and it would have been my doing so this was just not meant to be his happy day

[N4CR]

Are you WINJA in disguise. Haven't noticed any posts from him lately are you sure you are tristank?

I HAVE MORE THAN ONE LOGON AND I HATE PIGS.

No I'm not winja ;)

[cowpoos]

Sounds like the prat that had a go at me at the top of the Rimutakas, Christmas day 2003.

You do realise you can complain about this dude?

I had a cop try to pull me over on the taka's too.....



He He.....I said try.....bye bye :devil2:

[FROSTY]

Guys Just a point to concider here. The guy did sound like a prick dont get me wrong. BUT--what if he was the poor sod that had to go tell Flying's parents about their son. Or mop up the remains of some dumb fuck cager that shot off the side of "the hill"

[MrMelon]

That's a fair point, but that doesn't give anyone the authority to treat everyone they come across with the contempt that MD received. Especially someone who isn't breaking the law.

[Zapf]

I asked a police officer about riding speed below the posted limit, on very twisty roads.

He said that they can't do anything until you "stuff up" (crash)

then they can get you for careless/dangerous riding...

dangerous? na... not until that bird crossed the road in front of me sir. Can you book that bird for careless crossing please...

[Zapf]

Zingging? must be a Kawa thing... my bike don't Zing.... does urs?

[N4CR]

Zingging? must be a Kawa thing... my bike don't Zing.... does urs?

ONLY FAST BIKES ZING, HENCE ONLY BEING KAWASAKI.

[John]

zx14 does zing fastest production bike to date, ohhh poor you guys 200hp.

KAWASAKIS BACK (black) BITCHES.

[Velox]

Guys Just a point to concider here. The guy did sound like a prick dont get me wrong. BUT--what if he was the poor sod that had to go tell Flying's parents about their son. Or mop up the remains of some dumb fuck cager that shot off the side of "the hill"
No way! That's ridiculous. Even if that was the case, it doesn't mean he should stop and "educate" every random motorist that goes over the hill!!! (Sorry Frosty) AND, there is an element of being professional in a job like the police - if he's absolutely thrown by some 'lunatic' daring to go 88 in a 80k zone, perhaps he should be in some type of therapy rather than trying to 'look after' society.

The main worry on that hill is going to be the ticket booths at the bottom, not the horses, cyclists, pajeros and moss on the twisties.

[Bob]

A brief high-pitched buzzing or humming sound; "the zing of the passing bullet"
dynamism: the activeness of an energetic personality
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

ZING is a standard for information retrieval supported by the United States Library of Congress.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZING

So he was booking you for making a high pitched buzzing noise... or for getting some information back?

Somehow I don't think it will stand up in court...

[What?]

I only efer zing in ze wain.

[erik]

Yeah I thought about it at the time because he was well out of order but the Police get far too much flak thrown at them already.
In cases like this, it seems the flak is deserved.
By complaining about this guy, with a bit of luck he'll get told to be more polite and hence the next person he comes across won't be lectured like you were.
If you don't complain and he continues with his attitude, he will continue to contribute to the negative opinion that people have towards the cops.

[Lou Girardin]

Yeah I thought about it at the time because he was well out of order but the Police get far too much flak thrown at them already.


He's one of the reasons.

[jimbo600]

Interesting little episode this one MD. The cops have a high selection standard and a tough course. Buttwipes like the one you encountered should not have graduated. Good communication is the holy grail to cops. If this happens again ask the following:

"under what legislative authority are you detaining me here for?" and remind them that if they are not arresting you then they are detaining you illegally. They do not have authority to hold you up and give you lectures. Walk away get on your bike and zing away.

Fuckin traffic cops. They watch far too many mad max movies.

[Lou Girardin]

Guys Just a point to concider here. The guy did sound like a prick dont get me wrong. BUT--what if he was the poor sod that had to go tell Flying's parents about their son. Or mop up the remains of some dumb fuck cager that shot off the side of "the hill"

Makes no difference Frosty, if he can't handle the job he should get out. (or be got out)

While he was tied up bullshitting MD, how many cagers were cutting corners on that road?

[Sparky Bills]

No way! That's ridiculous. Even if that was the case, it doesn't mean he should stop and "educate" every random motorist that goes over the hill!!! (Sorry Frosty) AND, there is an element of being professional in a job like the police - if he's absolutely thrown by some 'lunatic' daring to go 88 in a 80k zone, perhaps he should be in some type of therapy rather than trying to 'look after' society.

The main worry on that hill is going to be the ticket booths at the bottom, not the horses, cyclists, pajeros and moss on the twisties.

Fully agree there.

Sounds like "Gunner" to me.
Anyone know of him?


Since the speed has come down, I have seen an average of 2cops on the hill a day. (thats morning and night)
This guy sounds like he's on a massive power trip, and needs to be put in line.

Mark.. you say cops get too much flack, Its because of asshole cops like the one you played with. People have lost respect for them. (or most of them anyway)

[Lou Girardin]

zx14 does zing fastest production bike to date, ohhh poor you guys 200hp.

KAWASAKIS BACK (black) BITCHES.

The piece of crap won't be very fast while it's in the workshop having the engine dropped to adjust the valve shims though.

[Sparky Bills]

ZINGING IS THE BEST PART OF MY DAY!! :whistle: :devil2:

[Lou Girardin]

Interesting little episode this one MD. The cops have a high selection standard and a tough course. Buttwipes like the one you encountered should not have graduated. Good communication is the holy grail to cops. If this happens again ask the following:

"under what legislative authority are you detaining me here for?" and remind them that if they are not arresting you then they are detaining you illegally. They do not have authority to hold you up and give you lectures. Walk away get on your bike and zing away.

Fuckin traffic cops. They watch far too many mad max movies.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
They can stop anyone on any road and require name, address, date of birth.

[spudchucka]

That cop needs a holiday or a tune up from his boss. What he did was pretty unprofessional and more or less totally uncalled for.

[spudchucka]

Interesting little episode this one MD. The cops have a high selection standard and a tough course. Buttwipes like the one you encountered should not have graduated. Good communication is the holy grail to cops. If this happens again ask the following:

"under what legislative authority are you detaining me here for?" and remind them that if they are not arresting you then they are detaining you illegally. They do not have authority to hold you up and give you lectures. Walk away get on your bike and zing away.

Fuckin traffic cops. They watch far too many mad max movies.
Thats good advice for someone that WANTS to get arrested.

[jimbo600]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.
They can stop anyone on any road and require name, address, date of birth.

Correct but they can't delay you more than whats required to get those details and issue a ION if required. After you have given the required details they cannot detain you any further.

[Sniper]

After you zing lots, are you all zung out?

[jimbo600]

Thats good advice for someone that WANTS to get arrested.

Arrested? For what exactly? I do not want to, and do not have to sit and listed to some over zealous asshole preach. (And by that I mean preach not warn). I like you guys I really do but there's a few who do you a disservice. Like the HP who pulled over an ambulance while it was responding to a catagory one emergency (turned out to be a cat 3 but they didn't know that).

[Racey Rider]

I HAVE MORE THAN ONE LOGON AND I HATE PIGS.

No I'm not winja ;)


So thats how you get 10 green rep boxes with only 681 posts! <_<

[Sniper]

So thats how you get 10 green rep boxes with only 681 posts! <_<

You are right. I always suspected that there are a few people on here with scitzophrenia.

[Beemer]

Told off for zinging? Sounds like he went to the weather presenter's school of talking - "this evening we will have spitty rain and puffy clouds will zing across the sky" - what a tosser!

I'm not that experienced on the Paekak hill and dread coming across someone like him - he'll probably come up behind me and then pull me over for impeding the flow of traffic or deliberately going slow to bait HIM!

I've been pulled over by guys like this who really do seem to have a chip on their shoulder. Unfortunately, the best thing to do is just speak when spoken to, give them any information required and then leave when you can. Chances are they will forget all about you as soon as they pull over their next victim, but if you give them anything they perceive as 'attitude', they will remember you for life and make it their job to make your life a misery!

[ManDownUnder]

Sounds like an organised ride is in order...

1) Make sure you're all able to handle those corners... don;t want any carnage
2) Stay on/under the speed limit at all time
3) Zing away!

oh yeah... complain about the prat too. Your voice alone will have little impact (probably) but if it's one of many... then it starts to look bad for the other guy.

MDU

[N4CR]

You are right. I always suspected that there are a few people on here with scitzophrenia.

Nah I only have one logon... and I'm not kidding. People just love me, thats all. It's Funny how no one has really ever met WINJA though eh... mabey its just mighty Spankme with an alternative login - he don't post too much :lol:

I think this guy needs someone with an attitude that hasn't been zinging (but is pulled up anyway) to deal with him, say some spiteful but legal things outlining how much of a bastard he is being to people and not letting him just talk over the top of you - eg get WINJA down there or something.

This guy, as other people have said is probably just on a power trip from hell and should slow down a little one of these years or get someone to put him in his place.

[ManDownUnder]

"under what legislative authority are you detaining me here for?" and remind them that if they are not arresting you then they are detaining you illegally. They do not have authority to hold you up and give you lectures. Walk away get on your bike and zing away.

Fuckin traffic cops. They watch far too many mad max movies.

uh huh...

Always a good move to further annoy someone that's 1) in power and 2) already pissed off at you.

Use the system. Follow it up and escalate it when necessary, but don't give the guy any reason to follow it up with something else right there on the spot.

[jimbo600]

uh huh...

Always a good move to further annoy someone that's 1) in power and 2) already pissed off at you.

Use the system. Follow it up and escalate it when necessary, but don't give the guy any reason to follow it up with something else right there on the spot.

That's good advice too. But you just can't beat riding away knowing that you have stood up for yourself. If your bikes legal and you were riding legally then they have nowt to go on. End of story. Typically I will be happy to have a chinwag with a cop if he stops me. Like a few months back when I got pulled and warned about following to close. He gave some good advice and I took it. However that attitiude thing goes both ways. Quite simply they probably don't deserve it and we don't have to put up with it.

[Omega1]

Wonder, if he pulls over the local 1%ers and gives them speeches?......

[jimbo600]

Wonder, if he pulls over the local 1%ers and gives them speeches?......

I would imagine so. Especially as the 1%er will probably be driving while disqualified and will get the "you aint going no further" speech. Or the "I'm placing you under arrest" speech as the gangie will most likely have a few point bags on him.

[Lou Girardin]

Correct but they can't delay you more than whats required to get those details and issue a ION if required. After you have given the required details they cannot detain you any further.

They are allowed reasonable time to ascertain those details are correct though. Not to give lectures. It's one benefit of being aged, you can say to upstart young cops that you've been driving longer than they've been alive.

[roogazza]

[QUOTE=jimbo600]Interesting little episode this one MD. The cops have a high selection standard and a tough course. Buttwipes like the one you encountered should not have graduated

sorry Jimbo, fact is, standards ain't what they used to be and as for the course, if they don't measure up they do a course to pass the course. What happened to sorry you failed ???
It's always been possible to keep your nose clean, do the six months and graduate ! then they have to fall down on the job to be found out, which they usually do, but it takes time.

[Ixion]

There's little point in being sarcastic around an officer of the law, no matter how much in the "right" you may think you are. They do have powers of arrest, handcuffs, pepper spray, batons of varying lengths and a Glock 9mm. I'm not saying don't complain, but never upset a Wookie.


Complain to who?

The Police Complaints Authority is just a whitewash machine, you're wasting your time there. His boss isn't going to give a toss about a complaint from a biker.

It's a sad fact, but there are some cops that abuse their power. And a sadder fact that there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

If you have the misfortune to run into one of the little Hitlers all you can do is suck it up, treat it like diesel on the road, part of the hazards of riding on two wheels. Or if you can identify him before you stop , do a runner (don't usually condone that trick , but there are some times it may be justified I guess)

[Brett]

As most people here who have been in the situation will ascertain (especially if they are in the younger demograph) when a cop gives you a fine, thats it. I have tried listening and being polite. Wasnt doing anything at all, still got a $650 fine. Went to court thinking that justice would prevail. It did not. They said that i was lying. I wasn't. I paid it.
Now, if i have a decent chance of getting away, i try. I have got away so far about 9 times out of 10.
I have grown out of that stage now, and it is much easier to just obey laws...except the odd empty motorway etc at 2am...
I still have not yet been done for speeding...and i dont plan too.

I would just try and bite my tongue, because unless you have evidence otherwise, if he gives you a fine, there is a good chance you have to pay it. SUCKS. :2guns:

[avgas]

Wotta Jerk....sounds like he is zinged.
Get his name/number? You can do him for harrasment.
Im sure the police dont need him

[spudchucka]

Arrested? For what exactly? I do not want to, and do not have to sit and listed to some over zealous asshole preach. (And by that I mean preach not warn). I like you guys I really do but there's a few who do you a disservice. Like the HP who pulled over an ambulance while it was responding to a catagory one emergency (turned out to be a cat 3 but they didn't know that).Its simple really, you can figure it out for yourself.

114.Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc—




(1)An enforcement officer who is in uniform, or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, may signal or request the driver of a vehicle to stop the vehicle as soon as is practicable.


(2)An enforcement officer in a vehicle following another vehicle may, by displaying flashing blue, or blue and red, lights or sounding a siren, require the driver of the other vehicle to stop.


[(2A)Subject to subsections (4) and (5), the driver of a vehicle that is stopped by an enforcement officer under this Act must remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for the enforcement officer to complete the exercise of any powers conferred, or duties imposed, on an enforcement officer by this Act.]


(3)An enforcement officer may require the driver of a vehicle that is stopped under this Act to—


(a)Remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for an enforcement officer to obtain the particulars referred to in paragraph (b), or to complete the exercise of any other power conferred on an enforcement officer by this Act; and


(b)On demand by an enforcement officer,—


(i)Give his or her name and address and date of birth, or such of those particulars as the enforcement officer may specify; and


(ii)State whether or not he or she is the owner of the vehicle; and


(iii)If the driver is not the owner of the vehicle, give the name and address of the owner or such particulars within the driver's knowledge as may lead to the identification of the owner.


(4)The driver of a vehicle that is stopped under subsection (2) is not obliged to remain stopped if the vehicle with flashing lights and siren does not itself stop in the near vicinity of the place where the driver has stopped.


(5)An enforcement officer may require a driver to remain stopped on a road for as long as is reasonably necessary to enable the officer to establish the identity of the driver, but not for longer than 15 minutes if the requirement to remain stopped is made under this subsection only.


(6)An enforcement officer may arrest a person without warrant if the officer has good cause to suspect the person of having—


(a)Failed to comply with this section or a signal or request or requirement under this section; or


(b)Given false or misleading information under this section.


Cf 1962 No 135 s 66




113.Enforcement officers may enforce transport legislation—





(1)An enforcement officer in uniform or in possession of a warrant or other evidence of his or her authority as an enforcement officer may enforce the provisions of—


(a)The Transport Act 1962, the Local Government Act 1974, [the Local Government Act 2002,] the Road User Charges Act 1977, the Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986, the Transport Services Licensing Act 1989, the Transit New Zealand Act 1989, the [Railways Act 2005], [the Land Transport Management Act 2003,] and this Act:


(b)Regulations and rules and bylaws in force under any Acts mentioned in paragraph (a).


(2)Without limiting any other powers conferred on an enforcement officer, an enforcement officer, in enforcing any provisions referred to in subsection (1), may at any time—


(a)Direct a person on a road (whether or not in charge of a vehicle) to give the person's name and address and date of birth, or such of those particulars as the enforcement officer may specify, and give any other particulars required as to the person's identity, and (unless the person is for the time being detained or under arrest under any enactment) give such information as is within the person's knowledge and as may lead to the identification of the driver or person in charge of a vehicle:


(b)Inspect, test, and examine—


(i)The brakes or any other part of a vehicle on a road or any associated equipment; or


(ii)A land transport document, or a document resembling a land transport document, displayed or carried on the vehicle:


(c)If the enforcement officer believes on reasonable grounds that a vehicle on a road causes an obstruction in the road or to a vehicle entrance to any property or that the removal of the vehicle is desirable in the interests of road safety or for the convenience or in the interests of the public,—


(i)Enter, or authorise another person to enter, the vehicle for the purpose of moving it or preparing it for movement; and


(ii)Move, or authorise another person to move, the vehicle to a place where it does not constitute a traffic hazard:


(d)Direct the driver or person in charge of a vehicle on a road to remove the vehicle from the road or a specified part of a road, if the officer believes on reasonable grounds that it causes an obstruction in the road or to a vehicle entrance to any property or its removal is desirable in the interests of road safety or for the convenience or in the interests of the public:


(e)Forbid an unlicensed driver to drive a motor vehicle.


[(f)]

[Krayy]

Paraphrased to hell, but the first thing that came to my mind was.....

Narrator: In A.D. 2005, MD was riding.

MD: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody changed the speed limit on Paikok Hill and set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
MD: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
MD: It's you !!
Cop: How are you Zinging gentlemen !! :angry:
Cop: All your Piekoks are belong to us. :ar15:
Cop: You are on the way to destruction.
MD: What you say !! :tugger:
Cop: You have no chance to ride across the centre lines! Make your time.
Cop: Ha Ha Ha Ha ....
Operator: Captain !! *
Cop: Take off every 'Zing'!!
MD: You know what you doing, dickhead?? :weird:
Cop: Move 'Zing'
MD: Give to me name of Supervisor, for great justice!! :shake:

[Deano]

Somone has already mentioned the rule about being able to stop within the visible distance on a laned road (or something like that).

So could this be Zinging ? Riding around a corner too fast to be able to stop within visible distance ?

Is it enforceable, or as another KBer mentioned, not enforceable until you crash, then you get done for careless or dangerous ???

Also Spud - I think you and Jimbo may be at crossed purposes. MD was not riding at the time, he was on the side of the road (already stopped), so do the same rules apply ?

[madboy]

Haven't had time to read this post fully, but I did want to add the following:

1) Having the power to do something doesn't mean to say that you should use that power. The 5-0 have the power to do plenty of things, but it is the appropriate and mature use of that power that separates the good from the bad. A fact that has not filtered down to many in the HP yet it appears.

2) MD - you the man. I couldn't have engaged brain long enough to put up with that. I woulda reverted to the teenage years... "So what you're saying officer, is that you can't do me for f*** all? Great, thanks for your time, now go zing yourself." Before I rode off - proceeding to zing ALL the way home.

3) Most HP I hear about don't do anything to further the name of the police... except the one last night who decided not to try busting me for doubling the speed limit. A try was all he was ever going to get.

[sels1]

Sounds like "Gunner" to me.
Anyone know of him?


Dont think it would be him. For one he's older than described and two he is too experenced a cop to behave like that. He used to be a bike cop back in the day (MoT) and was generally helpful to bikers.

[Lou Girardin]

Also Spud - I think you and Jimbo may be at crossed purposes. MD was not riding at the time, he was on the side of the road (already stopped), so do the same rules apply ?

Yes. He was on a road.

BTW I love the demonisation of HP cops here. Who said the cop was HP?
He might have just been just another GD tosser, Cops with traffic experience generally don't make dicks of themselves like this guy.

[spudchucka]

Also Spud - I think you and Jimbo may be at crossed purposes. MD was not riding at the time, he was on the side of the road (already stopped), so do the same rules apply ?The side of the road is still a road under the act.

``Road'' includes—


(a)A street; and


(b)A motorway; and


(c)A beach; and


(d)A place to which the public have access, whether as of right or not; and


(e)All bridges, culverts, ferries, and fords forming part of a road or street or motorway, or a place referred to in paragraph (d):


(f)All sites at which vehicles may be weighed for the purposes of this Act or any other enactment:
I'm not looking for an arguement with Jimbo but his advice to just bugger off is bad advice.

[spudchucka]

Yes. He was on a road.

BTW I love the demonisation of HP cops here. Who said the cop was HP?
He might have just been just another GD tosser, Cops with traffic experience generally don't make dicks of themselves like this guy.
Right, so now the GDB cops are tossers and the traffic cops are the ones that are propping up the public image by not being dicks.

You've got traffic experience, so whats your excuse for being a dick?

[Lou Girardin]

Right, so now the GDB cops are tossers and the traffic cops are the ones that are propping up the public image by not being dicks.

You've got traffic experience, so whats your excuse for being a dick?

My excuse is age. Yours is personality.
Read the post Spud. MD never said he was HP.

[jimbo600]

Its simple really, you can figure it out for yourself.

All very good spud but I didn't read the part about the bit where it says reasonably necessary to detail a driver for a lecture. As previously mentioned he has powers to detain a driver to ask and ascertain legitimacy of ID documents and test the vehicle, but he is NOT allowed to detain the driver for the sole purpose of giving an undue lectue. This is in fact unreasonable detention. This is especially pertinent for a unwarranted lecture as is the case with MD.

[jimbo600]

The side of the road is still a road under the act.

I'm not looking for an arguement with Jimbo but his advice to just bugger off is bad advice.

Argue away spud. Sometimes I get it wrong and don't realise it. It's the whole point of a forum is it not?

[spudchucka]

All very good spud but I didn't read the part about the bit where it says reasonably necessary to detail a driver for a lecture. As previously mentioned he has powers to detain a driver to ask and ascertain legitimacy of ID documents and test the vehicle, but he is NOT allowed to detain the driver for the sole purpose of giving an undue lectue. This is in fact unreasonable detention. This is especially pertinent for a unwarranted lecture as is the case with MD.
The lecture may be simply what comes out of his mouth while he is inspecting the vehicle and checking identity and licence details. I'm not condoning the lecture bit, it pisses me off too, I'm simply highlighting the foolishness of the approach your proposed.

EG: Cop pulls you over pusuant to section 114 and also wants to check the vehicle etc etc. While doing so he gives you a verbal lecture, which you take exception to and then elect fuck off into the distance because you can't be bothered listening to it. You have just failed to remain stopped for an enforcement officer and are now likely to be arrested and charged.

You then defend the charge in court and explain to the judge that you took off because you couldn't be bothered listening to the lecture being dished out by the cop. The cop stands up and says he stopped the vehicle pursuant to section blah blah blah for the purpose of blah blah blah and before he could carry out his duties pursuant to those sections the defendant done a bunk your honour!

Even if the cop is made out to be a right plonker for lecturing you, you will have fuck all chance of getting off the charge.

Its your choice though and if others want to run with your advice then let them, some will get away with it, others won't.

[spudchucka]

My excuse is age. Yours is personality.
Read the post Spud. MD never said he was HP.
Did I in some way suggest that it was an HP cop?

[James Deuce]

He didn't pull him over though Spud.

[Lou Girardin]

Did I in some way suggest that it was an HP cop?
Let me explain without big words.
MD didn't mention the cop being HP. Other posters started going on about HP cops.
I pointed out that no-one said it was an HP cop.

Not all the inadequates in the Police belong to the HP.

[jimbo600]

The lecture may be simply what comes out of his mouth while he is inspecting the vehicle and checking identity and licence details. I'm not condoning the lecture bit, it pisses me off too, I'm simply highlighting the foolishness of the approach your proposed.

EG: Cop pulls you over pusuant to section 114 and also wants to check the vehicle etc etc. While doing so he gives you a verbal lecture, which you take exception to and then elect fuck off into the distance because you can't be bothered listening to it. You have just failed to remain stopped for an enforcement officer and are now likely to be arrested and charged.

You then defend the charge in court and explain to the judge that you took off because you couldn't be bothered listening to the lecture being dished out by the cop. The cop stands up and says he stopped the vehicle pursuant to section blah blah blah for the purpose of blah blah blah and before he could carry out his duties pursuant to those sections the defendant done a bunk your honour!

Even if the cop is made out to be a right plonker for lecturing you, you will have fuck all chance of getting off the charge.

Its your choice though and if others want to run with your advice then let them, some will get away with it, others won't.

Fair point. Every situation is different I suppose. Down to how you perceive the situation. Personally if the officer was busy with getting details etc then of course it wait it out time, but if he's just being a pain, well then it's goneburger time. A mate in a GTP falcon was pulled on SH2. The cop made him wait until a member of the public who made a *555 call stopped by. This took 15 minutes. I would have been long gone by then.

Anyway as usual it's the bad apples getting all the attention. Nice work in the manawatu getting Wallace.

[Dafe]

I just wanna go for a ride there now...... Hopefully meet this guy!
I must wear a badge saying "Worlds Number 1 Zinger!"
This guy sounds like a farkin arsemonkey!
I'd just love to wind this guy up, "Centreline? What centreline?", "My Type? Keep you in a job mate!", "Speed limit reduced? What Speed Limit?"

[heavenly.talker]

Okay...can someone explain to the newbie what zinging is please...I read all the posts and still aren't sure!

Cheers and thanks

[Gremlin]

Okay...can someone explain to the newbie what zinging is please...I read all the posts and still aren't sure!

Cheers and thanks
We're not exactly sure either... you certainly can't be fined for "zinging"

I think the cop was basically on about MD slowing down behind the cop to be able to go a little faster through corners, yet MD wasn't even speeding... :tugger:

[heavenly.talker]

Ohhhh...lots of noodles...
Thanks Gremlin

[MD]

Well this thread has taken off more than expected.
Just to be clear. He was a young officer in a marked patrol car, you know the ones in white with yellow and blue patches all over them and those cool lights on the roof. Don't ask me to pick the difference between highway patrol/traffic and general police.
I pulled over into a large driveway entrance to a farm. He did a u-turn and came back to find me. I genuinely thought he was just stopping for a 'friendly' chat.
It was really only his lack of manners that got to me. Another example.
He looked at the bike and said Í suppose you have the correct licence for this' to which I said 'sure, here it is' and I reached to get my wallet. His reply could have been 'that's Ok or no need or no thanks or .. but no he snapped back with 'Ï didn't ask to see it did I' It's all in the delivery isn't it.

[Gremlin]

Another example.
He looked at the bike and said Í suppose you have the correct licence for this' to which I said 'sure, here it is' and I reached to get my wallet. His reply could have been 'that's Ok or no need or no thanks or .. but no he snapped back with 'Ï didn't ask to see it did I' It's all in the delivery isn't it.
well, those colours I think dictate highway patrol

jeez, I don't have much experience with police myself, but that's just downright rude...

pity you aren't sensitive and he has caused you emotional scarring :lol:

I don't randomly bash police, but I really reckon you should complain. He is simply out of line with an attitude like that. Just make sure if you do, that you explain everything reasonably and calmly (ie don't come off like a wackjob)

[heavenly.talker]

don't come off like a wackjob)

Would that be slow, slow, slow, fast, fast, slow

or would that be

fast, fast, faster, faster, faster, oh yeah don't stop, fast?
:not: :laugh: :laugh: :banana: :bleh:

[Gremlin]

umm... I was trying to help MD and meant that innocently. You twisted my nice innocent words.

And I'm not saying... either way :devil2:

[SPman]

It's Funny how no one has really ever met WINJA though eh... mabey its just mighty Spankme with an alternative login - he don't post too much :lol:

Ask Frosty - WINJA is real, right enough.

[Zed]

Told me to 'shut up' about 7 times.

...Finally he said you got anyything to say now. I replied, No I'm far to scared to speak to you or dare open my mouth and I never cross the centreline.I believe your account Mark and think you did the right thing! Would've been hard to humble yourself feeling so hard done by, but you recognised the situation for what it was - a persistent policeman either in a foul mood or always like that, believing that he had the right to speak to you so rudely and accuse you of breaking the law and labelling you as such. You were careful and walked away without escalating the circumstances to where you may have been ticketed or even arrested (some would have probably assulted him for that dressing down)!! And all because you like to zing?

Just shows you never know what a cop is going to do or say alot of times!

If I was you I'd put it behind me and get on with my riding. Don't let it disturb your life and take away your peace even more than it already has! If it happens again however...:bash:

[Skyryder]

Guys Just a point to concider here. The guy did sound like a prick dont get me wrong. BUT--what if he was the poor sod that had to go tell Flying's parents about their son. Or mop up the remains of some dumb fuck cager that shot off the side of "the hill"

No excuse. If you can not handle the job get another.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

HI I ENJOY THE ZING FEELING. GREAT FEELING ZING AROUND ON THE SPORTSBIKE. WHEN IN GROUPS BEWARE OF EXCESS ZING AS MAY CAUSE ATTENTION TO ONESELF.
ZING APPLY TO GOOD TWISTY ROADS WITH NO POLICE MAN AROUND THE CORNER.


PASTE THESE RULES PROFITABLY INTO YOUR HATS:

1. DON'T GET ZING-SLAPPING OR YOU MAY COME OFF THE STEED (BEWARE OF THE FAST ZING).
2. BEWARE OF THE SLIP DEMON WHEN ZING, CAN CAUSE A PANICS.
3. ZING MAY BE CAUSES THE ACCIDENTAL CRASH DUE TO OVERZING.
4. POLICEMAN HAS NO APPROVAL WHILE PLAYING THE ZING, BEWARE OF GRUMPY.
5. USE THE COUNTERSTEER WHILE ZING.
6. BEWARE OF THE PLAYFUL PUKEKO MAKING SPORT IN THE ZING-WAY, AVOID ENTANGLEMENT WITH RAM AIR.
7. TOOTLE THE HORN TRUMPET MELODIOUSLY OR SHOUT HI, HI, TO MAKE ZING PASSAGE KNOWN AROUND THE CORNER, OR ZING WILL INCREASE UNKNOWN TO YOURSELF.
8. BE NO CAUSE WARNING TO PASSENGERS OF THE FOOT AND HORSES, DO NOT CAUSE ALARM TO THEM BY EXPLODING THE ZING-BOX.
9. KEEP ALL WHEEL ON THE ROADWAYS WHILE PERFORM THE ZING. ONE WHEEL MAY RESULT IN DANGEROUS TRAVELS.
10. ENSURE SPROTSBIKE IN COMPLETE ENGINE COMFORT BEFORE CREATE THE ZINGS.

ZING MOTORCYCLE, JAPAN, 1962.

Try and be original. There's only one Winj.


Skyryder

[heavenly.talker]

If I practise the 'missionary position' will I go to Heaven?


Skyryder


It depends...on whether you are practising with someone or with yourself

:apumpin: :laugh: :spudbooge :nono: :doh:

[Fatjim]

...Finally he said you got anyything to say now. I replied, No I'm far to scared to speak to you or dare open my mouth and I never cross the centreline.:

Yeah, you should have, "What did you say? I've got earplugs in"

[Patrick]

In cases like this, it seems the flak is deserved.
By complaining about this guy, with a bit of luck he'll get told to be more polite and hence the next person he comes across won't be lectured like you were.
If you don't complain and he continues with his attitude, he will continue to contribute to the negative opinion that people have towards the cops.

You should let his bosses know, so they can have a word, not an "official" complaint, you know what I mean. Otherwise, he will continue with his attitude and will get a big smack in the head. Perhaps he is a newbie and thinks he is all that...wait til he waves at the kiddies and one 3 year old flips him the bird!

I take it he was a young one? Fresh out of the nest? Needs slight adjustment to be a good bugger instead of being a prick. If he doesn't know he's cruising for a hiding one day, save him some future pain and suffering....let his boss know what happened out there.

[Pixie]

Told off for zinging? Sounds like he went to the weather presenter's school of talking - "this evening we will have spitty rain and puffy clouds will zing across the sky" - what a tosser!

At least he wasn't riding Lickity Split

[Patrick]

Complain to who?

The Police Complaints Authority is just a whitewash machine, you're wasting your time there. His boss isn't going to give a toss about a complaint from a biker.

Its only a name...people think because it says "Police" that its part of the station you're complaining at. WRONG. Led by a judge (ex lawyer/ the opposition!!) and investigators, many of whom are not in the Police anyhow. Everything is looked into, you should see the paperwork involved. White wash machine my arse!

[Dafe]

Maybe the regulars on that road should take a voice recorder ready for action. Record this pricks behaviour and then pass it on to the Police Complaints Authority in Wellington.

[Pixie]

The lecture may be simply what comes out of his mouth while he is inspecting the vehicle and checking identity and licence details. I'm not condoning the lecture bit, it pisses me off too, I'm simply highlighting the foolishness of the approach your proposed.

EG: Cop pulls you over pusuant to section 114 and also wants to check the vehicle etc etc. While doing so he gives you a verbal lecture, which you take exception to and then elect fuck off into the distance because you can't be bothered listening to it. You have just failed to remain stopped for an enforcement officer and are now likely to be arrested and charged.

You then defend the charge in court and explain to the judge that you took off because you couldn't be bothered listening to the lecture being dished out by the cop. The cop stands up and says he stopped the vehicle pursuant to section blah blah blah for the purpose of blah blah blah and before he could carry out his duties pursuant to those sections the defendant done a bunk your honour!

Even if the cop is made out to be a right plonker for lecturing you, you will have fuck all chance of getting off the charge.

Its your choice though and if others want to run with your advice then let them, some will get away with it, others won't.
A cop's job is to enforce the law,not to lecture or educate.Where in the training course is lecturing covered?
It is unprofessional.
Do you expect a nutritional lecture when you buy KFC?

[Patrick]

Let me explain without big words.

....inadequates ....

NO FAIR...YOU CHEATED...YOU SAID NO BIG WORDS...

[spudchucka]

He didn't pull him over though Spud.
Doesn't matter. The guy was in charge of a motor vehicle on a road, the cop doesn't need to put the flashers on a moving vehicle and pull them over before he can speak to a driver.

[spudchucka]

Let me explain without big words.
MD didn't mention the cop being HP. Other posters started going on about HP cops.
I pointed out that no-one said it was an HP cop.

Not all the inadequates in the Police belong to the HP.
In the context of this thread, how did you find an opportunity to to branch into calling general duties cops tossers?

You're nothing more than a WINJA with a few more years under your belt and somewhat better dialect.

[Pixie]

He was a young officer in a marked patrol car, you know the ones in white with yellow and blue patches all over them
The Poms call their cop cars "jam sandwiches"because of the pink stripe down the sides.
We should refer to ours as "Pus sandwiches"

[spudchucka]

Fair point. Every situation is different I suppose. Down to how you perceive the situation. Personally if the officer was busy with getting details etc then of course it wait it out time, but if he's just being a pain, well then it's goneburger time. A mate in a GTP falcon was pulled on SH2. The cop made him wait until a member of the public who made a *555 call stopped by. This took 15 minutes. I would have been long gone by then.

Anyway as usual it's the bad apples getting all the attention. Nice work in the manawatu getting Wallace.
Take off at your own peril is all I'm saying. Is it worth getting locked up and charged over?

[spudchucka]

Well this thread has taken off more than expected.
Just to be clear. He was a young officer in a marked patrol car, you know the ones in white with yellow and blue patches all over them and those cool lights on the roof. Don't ask me to pick the difference between highway patrol/traffic and general police.
I pulled over into a large driveway entrance to a farm. He did a u-turn and came back to find me. I genuinely thought he was just stopping for a 'friendly' chat.
It was really only his lack of manners that got to me. Another example.
He looked at the bike and said Í suppose you have the correct licence for this' to which I said 'sure, here it is' and I reached to get my wallet. His reply could have been 'that's Ok or no need or no thanks or .. but no he snapped back with 'Ï didn't ask to see it did I' It's all in the delivery isn't it.
He sounds like a total dick!

Traffic (STU) and Highway Patrol cars are marked in the yellow and blue colours. General duties cars are orange and blue, have more dents and higher K's.

There ya go Lou he was a HP tosser, not a GDB tosser. :finger:

[Ixion]

Take off at your own peril is all I'm saying. Is it worth getting locked up and charged over?

I think there is case law on this. Didn't Sir Robert Jones take the police to court over this? Some bimbette cop pulled him up in his Jag, then decided to show her authority with the "I'm going to muck about for half an hour or so and make you wait until I decide you can go just to show you who's boss " trick (maybe with a side order of feminazi - and I think he missed a plane flight or somehting , and she knew that). He sued the police, won in the NZ courts. Courts said the police did NOT have a carte blanche right to detain motorists as long as they chose. I think the police took it all the way to the Privy Council, not sure what happened there. Must check.

EDIT: Found it. I was not quite right. In fact it was more relevant. Sir Robert actually did exactly what was talked of, and drove off. The bimbette chased him, he sued, NZ Court of Appeal said he had no case, he went to the Privy council , who said he did . Interesting quote (judgement is attached). Note that he was NOT arrested (would have been much fireworks if he had been methinks). Case is almost exactly like OPs



12. It is with genuine reluctance that the Board disturbs a unanimous decision of the Court of Appeal on a matter which it would ordinarily regard as very much within the province of that court. But the appellant has exercised a right of appeal which the law gives him. While this incident was on one view minor and mundane, no abuse of police power (if such occurred) is ever trivial. And there are cases, whether or not this turns out to be one of them, where a challenge made by a private individual promotes the interests of the wider community. The Board concludes that it should give effect to its own clear opinion.

13. The Board will humbly advise Her Majesty that the appeal be allowed with costs before the Board and in the Court of Appeal, and that the order of the Court of Appeal be set aside.

[spudchucka]

A cop's job is to enforce the law,not to lecture or educate.Where in the training course is lecturing covered?
It is unprofessional.
Do you expect a nutritional lecture when you buy KFC?
Some people do need a lecture and part of the job, (in terms of traffic) is to set an example and to educate people. However, if you can be bothered reading the whole thread you will see on several posts I have said that I did not condone this particular lecture and have concurred that this cops actions were unprofessional.

If you are trying to make a point with me please make sure that I haven't already made that point myself. Otherwise I'll assume you are trolling.

[Patrick]

He sounds like a total dick!

Traffic (STU) and Highway Patrol cars are marked in the yellow and blue colours. General duties cars are orange and blue, have more dents and higher K's.

There ya go Lou he was a HP tosser, not a GDB tosser. :finger:

The Bananas in pyjamas also have radar detectors in them, hardly any in the Jaffa/Orange ones.

[limbimtimwim]

Paraphrased to hell, but the first thing that came to my mind was.....
Narrator: In A.D. 2005, MD was riding.
[...]
Cop: Move 'Zing'
MD: Give to me name of Supervisor, for great justice!! :shake:LOL

Well said sir..

[spudchucka]

I think there is case law on this. Didn't Sir Robert Jones take the police to court over this? Some bimbette cop pulled him up in his Jag, then decided to show her authority with the "I'm going to muck about for half an hour or so and make you wait until I decide you can go just to show you who's boss " trick (maybe with a side order of feminazi - and I think he missed a plane flight or somehting , and she knew that). He sued the police, won in the NZ courts. Courts said the police did NOT have a carte blanche right to detain motorists as long as they chose. I think the police took it all the way to the Privy Council, not sure what happened there. Must check.
I can't remember the details of the Bob Jones case so won't comment.

In the context of this thread the length of time detained hasn't really been raised until now. Jimbo suggested just taking off as soon as you think you are being detained solely for the purpose of the cop lecturing you. I'm suggesting that is foolish because the cop may well have other lawful reasons for detaining you and buggering off may lead to your arrest.

The legislation says cops can detain you for as long as reasonably necessary to establish identity but not longer than 15 minutes if required to remain stopped under this subsection only. The point is that there are many other reasons to detain a driver other than establishing identity so bugger off at your own peril.

I'm not in favour of or condoning unnecessary lecturing of motorists. All I'm trying to get across here is that Jimbo's idea is not really a good one.

[spudchucka]

After reading the whole thing it sounds like a decision based on the lawfulness or unlawfulness of the first stop. The decision appears to have been made on the basis that an abuse of police powers MAY have occurred, not that it did.


While this incident was on one view minor and mundane, no abuse of police power (if such occurred) is ever trivial.


The appellant may, or may not, succeed in establishing his version of events at trial. It cannot, however, be said at this stage that he cannot do so, and if the outcome of the action is potentially dependent on the facts found it is inappropriate to give summary judgment for the defendant.


If your name starts with Sir and you have Bob's budget then perhaps you might be so lucky as well.


6. It is common ground between the appellant and the constable that when she approached his car after stopping him on the first occasion he was indignant at being stopped and demanded to know why she had stopped him. Then their respective accounts diverge. According to the appellant's pleaded case (paragraph 16), the constable's first answer was that "she had noticed that he had moved slightly to the right on two occasions, and she had wondered why". The pleading continues (paragraph 22):
"After some time, Constable Dankl asserted that the plaintiff's car had crossed two white centre lines."
The appellant (paragraph 23) told the constable that there were no white lines and that he had not crossed any. In an affidavit sworn in these proceedings on 22 August 2000 the appellant deposed (paragraph 3):
"... Several hundred metres off the bridge, and while travelling at approximately 15 to 20 kms per hour, my vehicle moved slightly to the right of the truck it was following so that I could ascertain the reason for the traffic slowing. At the point on the road at which this occurred there is no white line, and no oncoming traffic. There is a concrete median barrier of some width."

The appellant deposed (paragraph 5) that the constable's reference to his crossing the white centre line occurred later in his first conversation with her. In his opinion it was a deliberate falsehood, fabricated in an attempt to justify an arbitrary and frivolous stopping.

7. In the defence it is pleaded (paragraph 10) that the constable twice observed the right-hand wheels of the appellant's car cross the centre line in the face of oncoming traffic, and (paragraphs 16 and 22) she told the appellant that he had twice crossed the centre line when she first spoke to him. In an affidavit sworn in these proceedings on 19 June 2000 the constable expanded the pleaded account. She deposed (paragraph 9) that when the appellant's car was approximately three quarters of the way across the bridge its right hand wheels partially crossed the centre white line into the oncoming lane before returning to its own lane, and (paragraph 10) that as it reached the end of the bridge the wheels of the appellant's car crossed fully into the oncoming lane, although only by a few inches. When she first spoke to him (paragraph 15) she explained that he had twice crossed the centre line and she was curious why he had done so. She stopped the appellant's car (paragraph 34) because he had twice crossed the centre line in the face of heavy traffic. In her notebook she recorded:
"I stopped him as I saw him edging across the centre line on the bridge (Wainone St o/bridge). At the end of the bridge."

8. It is plain from these conflicting accounts that although the appellant acknowledged a slight movement to the right after the bridge, where there was a concrete barrier between the carriageways but no white line, he was certainly not admitting to the incident which the constable described, involving as it did a double crossing of the central white line towards the end of the bridge. It was because the appellant so strongly challenged the description of the incident given by the constable that he stigmatised her account as dishonest and her stopping of his car as capricious, arbitrary and an unlawful abuse of the power conferred by section 114 of the 1998 Act.

9. In addressing this part of the case the Court of Appeal said (in paragraph 20 of its judgment):
"... Constable Dankl's uncontradicted evidence is that she did have a traffic purpose for stopping the car: she had observed it moving to the right (a matter not in dispute), a movement which might indicate drink driving, something wrong with the car or with the truck in front, or impatience. Whether she inaccurately later elaborated those reasons (a matter on which we need not and could not make a ruling) cannot affect the initial lawfulness of the stopping ..."

Earlier, in paragraph 7, the court had recorded the appellant as accepting that he had moved to the right on two occasions, which he had not. Mr Reed directed his primary criticism to these paragraphs. To describe the constable's evidence as "uncontradicted" was, he submitted, wrong, since the only episode she described was a double crossing of the white line on the bridge, which the appellant adamantly denied. The later elaboration relied on by the appellant could not, it was submitted, be disregarded, since she contended that she had given this explanation from the beginning and he relied on her alleged lateness in giving it as evidence of invention. It seems that the court erroneously understood the appellant to admit two movements to the right, when in truth he only admitted one slight movement.

10. If this case were to be fully tried, and depending of course on the evidence given, any one of several findings might be open to the tribunal of fact, whether judge or jury. It might be found that the appellant had crossed the white line on the bridge (once or twice, wittingly or unwittingly) and the constable had seen him do so, or that the appellant had not crossed the white line on the bridge but the constable honestly but mistakenly thought he had. In either of these events the appellant's claim would inevitably fail. There would, however, be a third theoretical possibility: that the appellant had not crossed the white line on the bridge and the constable did not think he had, but chose to assert that he had when, having stopped him for no road traffic reason, she was challenged to justify her action. Even if this finding were made it would not follow that all or any of the appellant's claims as currently pleaded would necessarily succeed. But it is clear, applying the guidance given by the Court of Appeal in Westpac, that summary judgment should not be given for the defendant unless he shows on the balance of probabilities that none of the plaintiff's claims can succeed. That is an exacting test, and rightly so since it is a serious thing to stop a plaintiff bringing his claim to trial unless it is quite clearly hopeless.

11. In the opinion of the Board, this exacting test is not satisfied in this case. The appellant may, or may not, succeed in establishing his version of events at trial. It cannot, however, be said at this stage that he cannot do so, and if the outcome of the action is potentially dependent on the facts found it is inappropriate to give summary judgment for the defendant. The Board is persuaded that the Court of Appeal, in reaching a contrary view, gave less than proper weight to the conflict of evidence between the appellant and the constable, treating as uncontradicted evidence which was in truth very strongly contradicted, and attributing to the appellant an admission which he did not make. It is unnecessary to explore a number of other questions which were the subject of detailed consideration in the courts below.

12. It is with genuine reluctance that the Board disturbs a unanimous decision of the Court of Appeal on a matter which it would ordinarily regard as very much within the province of that court. But the appellant has exercised a right of appeal which the law gives him. While this incident was on one view minor and mundane, no abuse of police power (if such occurred) is ever trivial. And there are cases, whether or not this turns out to be one of them, where a challenge made by a private individual promotes the interests of the wider community. The Board concludes that it should give effect to its own clear opinion.

13. The Board will humbly advise Her Majesty that the appeal be allowed with costs before the Board and in the Court of Appeal, and that the order of the Court of Appeal be set aside.

[limbimtimwim]

If I were Bob Jones, I'd consider driving off if I felt like I was being stuffed around. He's a bit of a brawler, but he is good to have around sometimes. If I were regular Joe without the fanatical tenacity and deep pockets of RJ, stay put and take the lecture.

Driving off would be total waste of time and money. The cop could drag you over the coals for your modified muffler, your non-factory brake pads, your micro indicators, going 78 in a 70 zone, 'failure to keep left', not indicating for at least 3 seconds at an intersection 5km back..

Then make your complaint, nothing too formal, just try and write a simple letter to said officer's boss.

Every dealing I have had with the police has been entirely reasonable, people like him screw it up for the vast majority of honest cops out there. Like the ones outside my house catching these guys yesterday http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/dominionpost/0,2106,3441695a6479,00.html Good work!

Not clever, wearing their prison gear, near the Premier House which often has police coming and going..

[jimbo600]

Well would you bloody well credit it. Rode home from TRTNR tonight and came accross guess who? That's right officer Helmut Visor on Paekakariki Hill rd, obviously fresh from invading poland. Stopped me for Zinging and true to my word while he was faffing around bleating on I simply rode off.

I'm now sharing a cell with bubba.

Of course non of this is true but I felt like a little bit of humour would go down well.

What I did notice on paekak hill though was now we get SUV's and 4WD fuckheads crossing the center line at 70Kms as opposed to 100kms. The speed reductions has not made a bit of difference to butthole cagers.

[Macktheknife]

GOOD GOD you were zinging in a public place!!!!!!
Are you mad??? You are lucky he didnt shoot you on the spot!
The dreaded zing is often fatal to innocent bystanders too...
You should be reprimanded in the strongest possible terms....
go to your room and give yourself a good talking to!
When you've learned your lesson you can come out again, and show us your zinging skills!

[Ixion]

After reading the whole thing it sounds like a decision based on the lawfulness or unlawfulness of the first stop. The decision appears to have been made on the basis that an abuse of police powers MAY have occurred, not that it did.

...

If your name starts with Sir and you have Bob's budget then perhaps you might be so lucky as well.

There was a good deal of discussion about S114. It seemed pertinent to the OPs situation (he objected to the fact that he was harangued, having committed no offence). I think it is probably stretching things to call it "abuse of police power" - it was the attitude that was complained of in both cases.

It occurs to me that there may be another relevant point . The OP says


I pulled over into a large driveway entrance to a farm. He did a u-turn and came back to find me.


If it was actually in the driveway, then it was not on the road. It was on private property (probably). That distinction will not save you if you have committed some offense. But if (as in this case) no offense has been committed, police powers to detain, or lecture people on private property are somewhat limited.



If your name starts with Sir and you have Bob's budget t


Therein lies the nub. Few of us can afford to spend the time and megasquidillion dollars to prove our point.

It is still annoying though that the occasional prattish cop can behave in this sort of way (remember , even the cop had to admit that no offence had been committed - he just objected to the bike, per se), and the public have no redress. Unless you are a millionaire with hot and cold running Queen's Counsel on tap, you must just suck it up and accept the abuse.

I would strongly advise against complaints to the "boss".A very good way, methinks, to become a "marked man" permanently.

I must say also that , with one exception many years ago , my own (infrequent, thank goodness) dealings with the police have been notably for the politeness of the officers. (Though that one exception still rankles after more than quarter of a century)

[Velox]

The legislation says cops can detain you for as long as reasonably necessary to establish identity but not longer than 15 minutes if required to remain stopped under this subsection only. The point is that there are many other reasons to detain a driver other than establishing identity so bugger off at your own peril.
Just out of curiosity SC, when you say "at your own peril" can we be had up for not hanging around "long enough"? Obviously we have to stop and show the licence and hear if we're being pinged for something, but is it legally fine (even if not advisable) to ride off after that? Or are there some sorts of fines involved?

[Zapf]

I think there is case law on this. Didn't Sir Robert Jones take the police to court over this? Some bimbette cop pulled him up in his Jag, then decided to show her authority with the "I'm going to muck about for half an hour or so and make you wait until I decide you can go just to show you who's boss " trick (maybe with a side order of feminazi - and I think he missed a plane flight or somehting , and she knew that). He sued the police, won in the NZ courts. Courts said the police did NOT have a carte blanche right to detain motorists as long as they chose. I think the police took it all the way to the Privy Council, not sure what happened there. Must check.

EDIT: Found it. I was not quite right. In fact it was more relevant. Sir Robert actually did exactly what was talked of, and drove off. The bimbette chased him, he sued, NZ Court of Appeal said he had no case, he went to the Privy council , who said he did . Interesting quote (judgement is attached). Note that he was NOT arrested (would have been much fireworks if he had been methinks). Case is almost exactly like OPs

damm I hate lawyers.... after trying to read that attachment...

[spudchucka]

If it was actually in the driveway, then it was not on the road. It was on private property (probably). That distinction will not save you if you have committed some offense. But if (as in this case) no offense has been committed, police powers to detain, or lecture people on private property are somewhat limited.


``Road'' includes—


(a)A street; and


(b)A motorway; and


(c)A beach; and


(d)A place to which the public have access, whether as of right or not; and


(e)All bridges, culverts, ferries, and fords forming part of a road or street or motorway, or a place referred to in paragraph (d):


(f)All sites at which vehicles may be weighed for the purposes of this Act or any other enactment:(d) A place to which the public have access, whether of right or not.

The driveway is still a road. Particularly if the OP had simply pulled over into the entrance to the driveway, (as I suspect), as it could just as easily be classified as the road shoulder.

[spudchucka]

Just out of curiosity SC, when you say "at your own peril" can we be had up for not hanging around "long enough"? Obviously we have to stop and show the licence and hear if we're being pinged for something, but is it legally fine (even if not advisable) to ride off after that? Or are there some sorts of fines involved?
If you think the cop has done all he / she needs to do with you and you want to leave, just ask, "have you finished because I really want to get on my way"?

If you just bugger off as soon as you want to without being "released" by the officer you may be liable as follows;


52.Contravening notices, requirements, etc, given or imposed by enforcement officers—




(1)A person commits an offence if the person—


[(aa)is the driver of a vehicle that is stopped and fails to remain stopped in accordance with section 114(2A); or]


(a)Removes, obscures, or renders indistinguishable a notice affixed to a vehicle under section 115, unless new evidence of vehicle inspection has been obtained for the vehicle [or (if the notice was given under section 96(1B)) the direction requiring the vehicle not to be driven on a road has been cancelled under section 102(3)(b) or section 110(3)(a)(ii)]; or





(b)Drives a vehicle to which a notice under section 115 applies (other than when driving in compliance with a condition imposed under subsection (4) or subsection (5) of that section [or under section 96(1D)]) before new evidence of vehicle inspection has been obtained for, and is displayed on, the vehicle; or


(c)Fails or refuses to comply with any lawful requirement, direction, notice, request, or prohibition given to or imposed on him or her under this Act by an enforcement officer or a dangerous goods enforcement officer; or


(d)Whether or not he or she is the person to whom the direction was given, knowingly drives a heavy motor vehicle on a road in breach of a direction given by an enforcement officer under section 128.


(2)The maximum penalty on conviction for an offence against subsection (1) is a fine not exceeding $10,000.

There may be times where the cop is happy for you to just ride away, in other cases you will find yourself liable as above. My advice is simply to check with the cop before you bugger off into the distance.

[Deano]

If you think the cop has done all he / she needs to do with you and you want to leave, just ask, "have you finished because I really want to get on my way"?



Which would be about as effective as telling the school bully you need your lunch money to buy food.

In my experience cops will not tolerate any request to leave like that. More likely to wind them up even more.

[Lou Girardin]

Its only a name...people think because it says "Police" that its part of the station you're complaining at. WRONG. Led by a judge (ex lawyer/ the opposition!!) and investigators, many of whom are not in the Police anyhow. Everything is looked into, you should see the paperwork involved. White wash machine my arse!

Most of their decisions have been very pale though. Even contrary to what courts have said.
Still, what can you expect when their investigators are serving Police Officers.
The ex-Judge gets fed the info they want him to have. The only penalty for cops is the paperwork they have to do.

[Lou Girardin]

In the context of this thread, how did you find an opportunity to to branch into calling general duties cops tossers?

You're nothing more than a WINJA with a few more years under your belt and somewhat better dialect.

Vocabulary. My dialect is Jaffa.

[Lou Girardin]

He sounds like a total dick!

Traffic (STU) and Highway Patrol cars are marked in the yellow and blue colours. General duties cars are orange and blue, have more dents and higher K's.

There ya go Lou he was a HP tosser, not a GDB tosser. :finger:

Or an STU tosser. As long as you're not like him Spud.

No-one has yet suggested asking the cop why you are being detained. If it's not for a lawful reason, and "shut the fuck up", will not stand in court, then say I wish to leave, post the ticket to my address. If you are not allowed the leave it then becomes unlawful detention.
It'll all come down to how much fun you want to have with Officer Dickus, but I have to say that this tactic works better if you're of a more mature age.

[Ixion]

(d) A place to which the public have access, whether of right or not.

The driveway is still a road. Particularly if the OP had simply pulled over into the entrance to the driveway, (as I suspect), as it could just as easily be classified as the road shoulder.

If just in the entrance I agree, which was why I said probably originally. But if he was actually down the drive way, that is different. In the driveway of my home, I may ride my unregistered, unwarranted bike, without a licence, I may exceed the speed limit (if the drive is long enough) and do all other manner of things most illegal on the public road. And if the police come a calling I may tell them to piss off , it is private property.

[limbimtimwim]

damm I hate lawyers.... after trying to read that attachment...Actually, I was impressed by by how lucid and easy to read that was. I was very impressed with Lord Witherbottom of Stinky Oaks or whatever his name was. I've seen worse.

[Sniper]

If just in the entrance I agree, which was why I said probably originally. But if he was actually down the drive way, that is different. In the driveway of my home, I may ride my unregistered, unwarranted bike, without a licence, I may exceed the speed limit (if the drive is long enough) and do all other manner of things most illegal on the public road. And if the police come a calling I may tell them to piss off , it is private property.

That is the impression that I got.

[Ixion]

That is the impression that I got.

Mind you, there is a flaw there. Since it wasn't HIS driveway, he really had no business to be there. Bit difficult getting on your high horse with a copper when you're parked in someone elses drivway!

It's all academic, in the real world you can't do anything without making a rod for your own back. He was a copper who had a hate thing about bikes and likes to throw his weight around. Probably gave him his jollies for the day. Shit happens, just write him off as a power mad creep, and ride on. If he tries to charge you with anything , that's another matter.

[spudchucka]

Which would be about as effective as telling the school bully you need your lunch money to buy food.

In my experience cops will not tolerate any request to leave like that. More likely to wind them up even more.
In that case just fuck off when you feel like it and see what happens.

[spudchucka]

If just in the entrance I agree, which was why I said probably originally. But if he was actually down the drive way, that is different. In the driveway of my home, I may ride my unregistered, unwarranted bike, without a licence, I may exceed the speed limit (if the drive is long enough) and do all other manner of things most illegal on the public road. And if the police come a calling I may tell them to piss off , it is private property.
Unless you were pursued onto the property from the road and the cop had signalled for you to stop prior to going up the driveway. Plenty of people think ducking up the nearest driveway and pretending its their place is a good way of avoiding the plod. It gets embarasing for them when the property owner comes out and wants to know who they stranger is up their driveway and why the police are talking to them.

[Lou Girardin]

It gets embarasing for them when the property owner comes out and wants to know who they stranger is up their driveway and why the police are talking to them.

Now ain't that a fact. Guaranteed to brighten a coppers day.

[aff-man]

Hmmmm been "detained" by a real wanker of an HP once as well. Stood there reading me the riot act was all yes sir no sir three bags full sir. And when i asked him where exactley he had trapped me, very politley of course, he not only gave me a speeding ticket but a ticket for having no L plate one when i had a restricted licence. His reason being that he had checked with his senior seargent and that seeing as i was not on a full licence i required one.....

(he also lied about his position and stuff and if things had occured as he said he would have needed to have reached about mach2 in his car for it to be possible)

Needless to say After a year of them fucking me around i got off that ticket.


There are a lot of good cops out there but an experience like that does sort of shape an opinion (didn't help that it was the first time i had been pulled over) And he kept me for so long i almost missed the 10pm curfeew....

Formal complaint got no-where.......

So SPud out of a matter of interest what constitutes as harassment / verbal abuse etc etc etc. I mean you probably don't have a snowballs chance in hell at it getting anywhere but it might be more effective than a complaint??

[Jantar]

(d) A place to which the public have access, whether of right or not....


So my irrigation pond has just become a road? As has my walnut grove? and our horse paddock?

[Deano]

In that case just fuck off when you feel like it and see what happens.

Don't get me wrong - I'm dead keen to try your suggestion but just not very hopeful of a positive response. And when it's my word against a cops, anything could happen.


So my irrigation pond has just become a road? As has my walnut grove? and our horse paddock?

As far as I am aware it must be in keeping with the other examples given in the list of what defines a road, so no, although a track through your walnut grove or horse paddock might qualify.

[Ixion]

..

Formal complaint got no-where.......

So SPud out of a matter of interest what constitutes as harassment / verbal abuse etc etc etc. I mean you probably don't have a snowballs chance in hell at it getting anywhere but it might be more effective than a complaint??

Yes. At the risk of returning to the original topic - which was the attitude of the copper.

Even if one HAS committed some offence , of the minor motoring variety (I'm not talking kiddie rape here), the copper should still be polite (as all those I've encountered - with one exception - have been).

All the more so when there is no offence committed.

The copper may actively dislike, even detest, motorcyclists. But that is no excuse for unprofessional attitude.

So if confronted by such a situation - an abusive bullying police officer - one can only suck it up at the time. But what then? Should the public simply accept that police officers are entitled to behave thus - bullying, truculent, shutting "shut up" etc ? Or, if that construct be rejected, what can the law abiding and respectable citizen (and until they break the law, motorcyclists are entitled to be regarded as such) do ?

Complaining to the Police Complaints Authority is a waste of time - even if they had any balls, in this case the officer has not actually committed any offence. He has just been rude and unprofessional.

Complaining to his boss I would think much too risky - the copper has mates , and dobbing him in will make it certain that they will be after the dobbers hide.

So what is the answer ? Has it come to this that Her Majesty's subjects can no longer expect respectful treatment from her constables ?

(I must emphasise again, that , with that one exception, my own experience has been that the police are both polite and professional. But obviously, there are exceptions. With 7000 or so officers even a small percentage of "duds" adds up)

[limbimtimwim]

Complaining to his boss I would think much too risky - the copper has mates , and dobbing him in will make it certain that they will be after the dobbers hide.Nahh, the superior officer is the superior officer because they (We hope) an honest, smart, experienced cop. They should handle the problem in a manner which leaves you in the clear. The response may be as simple as making a mental note to keep an eye on nasty subordinate, which is is what I would like if I were in that situation. As you (and I) have experienced, the vast majority of the police are good.

[N4CR]

Try and be original. Skyryder

Since when have pisstakes been totally original?

[Lou Girardin]

Complaining to his boss I would think much too risky - the copper has mates , and dobbing him in will make it certain that they will be after the dobbers hide.



No necessarily. Many years ago, a Rotorua cop developed a serious personal problem with me and I was getting stopped at all sorts of times and places by his mates. Never any tickets though, just breath tests and licence checks. A quick letter to the Area Commander and there were no more bullshit stops.
These guys were rank amateurs though, they made it obvious they were looking out for my car which was a little uncommon back then.

[vifferman]

Even if one HAS committed some offence , of the minor motoring variety (I'm not talking kiddie rape here), the copper should still be polite (as all those I've encountered - with one exception - have been).

All the more so when there is no offence committed.
Indeed; quite correct, Sir.

I too have had only one 'dud', as you term it, and his stream of invective and frothing at the mouth was entirely wasted on me, because I had no idea what he was getting so worked up about. He may as well have saved his breath, remained calm, and ignored me, then both of us would have had better days.

I was on my way to work, and I (and two other bikers) quietly filtered to the front of the traffic at the lights. Mr Biker-Plod was lurking in the traffic, and manouevred his Patrol Piece alongside each of us (apart from Mr "Suzukis and Buffalo Girls Go Round the Outside", who was out of reach of Mr Biker-plod's phlegmatic phlegm.)
[Insanely outraged yelling mode on] (Not me - Mr Biker-Plod)
"If you rode like a proper motorcyclist instead of a bloody idiot, you'd stop making the rest of us look bad!!"

That stuffed up my day, because I spent most of it puzzling over this strange missive...

[froggyfrenchman]

i just got a warning for weaving within my lane while under speed limit! was warming tires for planned "zinging" but was doing nothing wrong as far as i could tell... theyre out to spoil my fun!

[Deano]

So what is the answer ?

Video footage and audio recording of the arseholes attitude.

Little brother can watch too you know.

How many instances can you recall where cops have been caught on tape ?

:spudwave: :dodge:

[Deano]

i just got a warning for weaving within my lane while under speed limit! was warming tires for planned "zinging" but was doing nothing wrong as far as i could tell... theyre out to spoil my fun!

I've been 'accosted' for that before. Apparently weaving is not necessary to warm up your tyres said the all knowing officer.

I didn't really think it was worth pulling me over for, especially when I wasn't trying to warm up the tyres, I was scrubbing off the fuel/oil I had ridden through at the gas station.

It's a shame that the actions of a few power hungry arseholes spoil the good work that others do.

[Velox]

If you think the cop has done all he / she needs to do with you and you want to leave, just ask, "have you finished because I really want to get on my way"?

If you just bugger off as soon as you want to without being "released" by the officer you may be liable as follows;

[/B]

There may be times where the cop is happy for you to just ride away, in other cases you will find yourself liable as above. My advice is simply to check with the cop before you bugger off into the distance.

Cheers SC! Hits the nail on the head, except it begs the question (sorry if you've already posted it though) - what is section 114(2A)?
However as Deano said - it doesn't seem hugely likely that they'd look down at their toes and quietly admit that actually they are finished and we can go. Unless they're one of the better sorts. But for dealing with one like MD's mate, does this mean that there's nothing we can do except sit there and take it? Argh.

[Pixie]

Some people do need a lecture and part of the job, (in terms of traffic) is to set an example and to educate people. However, if you can be bothered reading the whole thread you will see on several posts I have said that I did not condone this particular lecture and have concurred that this cops actions were unprofessional.

If you are trying to make a point with me please make sure that I haven't already made that point myself. Otherwise I'll assume you are trolling.
Did I make any comment on your opinions?
I can give you a number for a good psychiatrist,one who speciallises in paranoia

[zeRax]

THIS THREAD IS POPULAR
probably because we all get to bash the coppers which is always a good thing, pity we as a nation dont bash them more for being relatively unreliable when we need real police work, doesnt help that theres sweet fuck all "justice" in the courts, revenue it up boysinblue

hehe :D got my own jab in hooooarrrrr

[number33]

I'm picking it's the same cop I followed in a cage from Pukerua Bay to Wellington. Bloke on a bandit cruises thru from behind - all cages are travelling at 70 - 80k and are all nicely pulling to the left to let the biker past. Biker's flicking his hand and nodding thanks. Gets to the cop car and good ole shithead cop stays waaay to the right and makes no attempt to let the bike thru for the next 10k's. What a wanker.

[Pixie]

pity we as a nation dont bash them more for being relatively unreliable when we need real police work, doesnt help that theres sweet fuck all "justice" in the courts, revenue it up boysinblue

hehe :D got my own jab in hooooarrrrr
That's not true.
According to Mr Spudchucka it's all a media beat up :crybaby:

[Ixion]

Gentlemen, gentlemen - :calm:

EDIT: WTF . What just happened. A minute ago there was a nice little flame war going on here.Now it's disappeared as if it never was!. What's with the censorship?


Now, if we may return generally to the topic .

I would like to observe that this problem (cops with attitude) is not restricted to motorcyclists. And it does have repercussions, indirectly , for the police.

Little story. Chap I know distantly, very respectable, pillar of community fellow, in his 60's, got a taxi into town one evening, with his wife. They were going to go to a show at the Aotea Centre, then dinner. First, he stopped off and bought a present for a friend. A VERY expensive ($100+) bottle of fancy whisky. In a nice box etc, the shop popped it in one of their plastic bags, with "Blogs Liquor" or whatever written al over it.

So off they go , ambling along to Aotea Square, him carrying the bag. Up comes a copper. " Stop. What's in that bag ?". He of course saw no reason not to tell the truth "Oh, it's a bottle of whisky".

"Right", says Mr Plod. "You can't have that here. Either give it to me and I will tip it out or leave the area immediately". "But, but--". Explanations fell on deaf ears,and Mr Plod becomes very nasty indeed, ranting and raving and threatening to arrest etc.

Long and short of it , they went home, missed their show, pleasant evening completely spoiled. In his opinion very bad attitude of the copper, and his unnecessarily truculent behaviour,were completely unwarranted and unjustified. And a chap who once supported the police thick and thin now has a much more caustic opinion of them.

Any way, point of this ramble. A bit later, the Council, and the Police, wanted to introduce a similar ban in our area. He contacted me, and we, with a few others, were successful in having the proposal overthrown.

The Police were very unhappy about that, and complained to me (for my sins I am Chaiman of the local Residents' Assn) about the community not supporting them, and "making their job harder". I had to tell them that we were not confident that the police powers in the proposal would not be abused , as in this story,and other anecdotal reports that we were told.


So bad public relations by the police can have wider ramifications.

And I still haven't seen any good suggestions about what anyone can do in such cases.

[spudchucka]

So my irrigation pond has just become a road? As has my walnut grove? and our horse paddock?
If you can drive a motor vehicle on your shit pond then it must be a road, just let me know well in advance when you plan to do it so I can come along with a video camera.

[Jantar]

(d) A place to which the public have access, whether of right or not..

Sorry SC, but there is no mention that it must be possible to drive a vehicle for it to be a road, just that the public have access.

[Ixion]

If you can drive a motor vehicle on your shit pond then it must be a road, just let me know well in advance when you plan to do it so I can come along with a video camera.

No problem. He justs needs either one of these cars, or to borrow Ms Fish's renowned Spragthorpe Wheezehound Continental.

[spudchucka]

Cheers SC! Hits the nail on the head, except it begs the question (sorry if you've already posted it though) - what is section 114(2A)?
However as Deano said - it doesn't seem hugely likely that they'd look down at their toes and quietly admit that actually they are finished and we can go. Unless they're one of the better sorts. But for dealing with one like MD's mate, does this mean that there's nothing we can do except sit there and take it? Argh.
Contrary to popular opinion and the assumption of so many in this thread, cops don't generaly pull people over simply to screw with them and muck them around. There may be some that do but I'm confident in saying that the majority don't. Therefore if you think they have finished doing whatever it was they were doing and you want to get on your way, just politely ask if there is any other reason that they may require you to remain stopped, if not, you are free to go.

Section 52 sets out the offence for not complying with the requirements under section 114.


52.Contravening notices, requirements, etc, given or imposed by enforcement officers—

(1)A person commits an offence if the person—

[(aa)is the driver of a vehicle that is stopped and fails to remain stopped in accordance with section 114(2A); or]

It refers to section 114(2A) because as highligted below it states the driver must remained stopped while the officer completes the exercise of any powers or duties prescribed by the Act. In other words, not simply to supply name, address, drivers licence details but also to carry out inspection of the vehicle etc etc. For example see section 113 also posted below.


(2A)Subject to subsections (4) and (5), the driver of a vehicle that is stopped by an enforcement officer under this Act must remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for the enforcement officer to complete the exercise of any powers conferred, or duties imposed, on an enforcement officer by this Act.]


113.Enforcement officers may enforce transport legislation—

(1)An enforcement officer in uniform or in possession of a warrant or other evidence of his or her authority as an enforcement officer may enforce the provisions of—

(a)The Transport Act 1962, the Local Government Act 1974, [the Local Government Act 2002,] the Road User Charges Act 1977, the Transport (Vehicle and Driver Registration and Licensing) Act 1986, the Transport Services Licensing Act 1989, the Transit New Zealand Act 1989, the [Railways Act 2005], [the Land Transport Management Act 2003,] and this Act:

(b)Regulations and rules and bylaws in force under any Acts mentioned in paragraph (a).

(2)Without limiting any other powers conferred on an enforcement officer, an enforcement officer, in enforcing any provisions referred to in subsection (1), may at any time—

(a)Direct a person on a road (whether or not in charge of a vehicle) to give the person's name and address and date of birth, or such of those particulars as the enforcement officer may specify, and give any other particulars required as to the person's identity, and (unless the person is for the time being detained or under arrest under any enactment) give such information as is within the person's knowledge and as may lead to the identification of the driver or person in charge of a vehicle:

(b)Inspect, test, and examine—

(i)The brakes or any other part of a vehicle on a road or any associated equipment; or

(ii)A land transport document, or a document resembling a land transport document, displayed or carried on the vehicle:

(c)If the enforcement officer believes on reasonable grounds that a vehicle on a road causes an obstruction in the road or to a vehicle entrance to any property or that the removal of the vehicle is desirable in the interests of road safety or for the convenience or in the interests of the public,—

(i)Enter, or authorise another person to enter, the vehicle for the purpose of moving it or preparing it for movement; and

(ii)Move, or authorise another person to move, the vehicle to a place where it does not constitute a traffic hazard:

(d)Direct the driver or person in charge of a vehicle on a road to remove the vehicle from the road or a specified part of a road, if the officer believes on reasonable grounds that it causes an obstruction in the road or to a vehicle entrance to any property or its removal is desirable in the interests of road safety or for the convenience or in the interests of the public:

(e)Forbid an unlicensed driver to drive a motor vehicle.

[(f)]

(3)An enforcement officer in uniform or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, who is for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic on a road, may—

(a)Direct a person using a vehicle or riding or driving an animal on the road to stop the vehicle or animal, as the case may be, or to cause it to proceed in or keep to a particular line of traffic or direction:

(b)Direct a pedestrian not to proceed across the road in contravention of a direction to stop given by the enforcement officer (whether given to pedestrians or to pedestrians and other traffic).

(4)In paragraphs (c) and (d) of subsection (2), ``road'' includes any land vested in or under the control of the Crown or any local authority.

[spudchucka]

That's not true.
According to Mr Spudchucka it's all a media beat up :crybaby:
You're the master of the missquote. I haven't mentioned the media once!

You're either talking shit again or replying to the wrong thread.

[spudchucka]

Sorry SC, but there is no mention that it must be possible to drive a vehicle for it to be a road, just that the public have access.
In the context of the Land Transport Act 1998 I think it is reasonable to assume that the term road would in some way involve the use of motor vehicles.

[Deano]

"Right", says Mr Plod. "You can't have that here. Either give it to me and I will tip it out or leave the area immediately". "But, but--". Explanations fell on deaf ears,and Mr Plod becomes very nasty indeed, ranting and raving and threatening to arrest etc.


Most liquor ban bylaws allow the transportation of liquor and the above case would I believe qualify. (How else are you meant to get liquor home from a bottle store in the CBD ?)

Given the circumstances you describe and the fact that the intent of the bylaw is to prevent public disorder, I would say this was very poor policing.

[crazylittleshit]

(3)An enforcement officer in uniform or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, who is for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic on a road, may—

If the cops not wearing the hat in the car I don't need to stop see..... :whistle:

[Velox]

Thanks SC - useful stuff. :niceone:

To sum it up it seems the only reason you can leave is if they actually say so, otherwise they could say they wanted to check your brakes or something and ping you for it. Oh well.

[Ixion]

Contrary to popular opinion and the assumption of so many in this thread, cops don't generaly pull people over simply to screw with them and muck them around. There may be some that do but I'm confident in saying that the majority don't. Therefore if you think they have finished doing whatever it was they were doing and you want to get on your way, just politely ask if there is any other reason that they may require you to remain stopped, if not, you are free to go.
..


Well, I don't think anyone has argued that the attitudes under discussion are those of the majority of cops. In fact several posters have specifically made the point that the majority are fine. It's the minority (and a small minority, I think) that we are talking about.

And unfortunately , with that small minority, the public seem to have no effective course of action, or redress.

[rudolph]

I have been pulled over for the most stuped resons mostly coz i was on a bike

[mikey]

half of my posts get deleted to! an some times i know im just not buzzing out because someone will have given me rep for it an then when i go back an look for it its gone!

[jimbo600]

Thanks SC - useful stuff. :niceone:

To sum it up it seems the only reason you can leave is if they actually say so, otherwise they could say they wanted to check your brakes or something and ping you for it. Oh well.

Well I tell y'all if I get pulled for a ticket no worries, but if I get pulled and harassed (prob unlikely) and I feel that I'm being detained for this reason I'm going. End of argument. I am willing to go to court over this if necessary.

[spudchucka]

(3)An enforcement officer in uniform or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, who is for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic on a road, may—

If the cops not wearing the hat in the car I don't need to stop see..... :whistle:
The key word there is "or".

[spudchucka]

Most liquor ban bylaws allow the transportation of liquor and the above case would I believe qualify. (How else are you meant to get liquor home from a bottle store in the CBD ?)

Given the circumstances you describe and the fact that the intent of the bylaw is to prevent public disorder, I would say this was very poor policing.
Liquor bans relate to open vessels only, not a six pack under your arm as you walk on home.

Edit: I went back and read Ixion's post about the bottle of whiskey. That cop got it wrong, unless they have a bylaw in that area completely different to other areas.

And BTW complaining to a cops boss does work. They (the bosses) get sick of dealing with public complaints and cops that attract large amounts of complaints will get reamed out.

[Ixion]

Liquor bans relate to open vessels only, not a six pack under your arm as you walk on home.

This is a Dorkland thing, city council Bylaw. Prohibits ALL alcohol in an area, except in arestaurant, private home, or being transported through or out of , the area (or into it if being deoivered to a shop, pub etc) . His problem was he could take the whisky home, but he couldn't keep it with him in the area.

[spudchucka]

This is a Dorkland thing, city council Bylaw. Prohibits ALL alcohol in an area, except in arestaurant, private home, or being transported through or out of , the area (or into it if being deoivered to a shop, pub etc) . His problem was he could take the whisky home, but he couldn't keep it with him in the area.
First time I've heard of a ban on all alcohol in an area. I bet the BYO restaraunts in the area are pissed off about that! The other point is that bans are intended to help reduce public disorder and the enforcement of the bans should be targeted at those who are likely to contribute to disorder. This generally wouldn't include a person of your friends age on his way to a show.

Banning all alcohol from an area is crazy as anybody that happens to drive through a ban area with alcohol in their possession but not currently open or being consumed may then be committing an offence. Thats just stupid!

[Hailwood]

Having followed this thread since inception (apart from the rantings of offtopic stuff) it seems to me that the info from the boysinblue here is simple.(thanks for it too sc).......stay unless you ask to leave, if you are not happy take the details and report it to the officer's superior officer (as you will have got his name)....and, as one who has ridden over said paekak hill, be warned that the antizinger is there as well as the cages...enough reason now with new reduced speed limit to avoid said hill as much as possible..shame cos it used to be fun road...now waiting for speed cameras etc to be set up on ïmproved'? Kaitoke road......

[VasalineWarrior]

half of my posts get deleted to! an some times i know im just not buzzing out because someone will have given me rep for it an then when i go back an look for it its gone!
Thats cause of all that acid you drop mikey

[Ixion]

First time I've heard of a ban on all alcohol in an area. I bet the BYO restaraunts in the area are pissed off about that! The other point is that bans are intended to help reduce public disorder and the enforcement of the bans should be targeted at those who are likely to contribute to disorder. This generally wouldn't include a person of your friends age on his way to a show.

Banning all alcohol from an area is crazy as anybody that happens to drive through a ban area with alcohol in their possession but not currently open or being consumed may then be committing an offence. Thats just stupid!

Auckland city council info on alcohol bans (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/documents/liquorban/default.asp)

Does not apply to private homes, any premises with a liquor license, or transport out of or through.

[ducatilover]

cops can't be that bad....i passed one yestaday doing 120 [yes, on a gn :shake: ] when i saw him it was a bit late to slow down so i waved at him and kept the throttle wide open trying to do 130. he didnt even turn around. :2thumbsup . i attempted to race a hayabusa over the pahiatua track yesterday also, that was very short lived, i'm sure the cunt was laughing at me. i was scraping my pegs very hard attempting too out hairpin him :shutup: he stayed behind me the whole time :2guns: dont get me wrong but i can out corner any cage over there easy [smoked a mitsi evo/ boy racer in the same hairpins] and this fricken busa just stayed there and overtook me at near light speed on a straight....... :tugger: just let him wait till i'm asleep then i'll be a good rider on an even better bike for corners, eg gsxr750k5 :woohoo:

[Dafe]

In that case just fuck off when you feel like it and see what happens.

Somehow I don't think Deano was saying that asking to leave is pointless, therefore leaving the only alternative you could think up, being: fucking off when you feel like it!

I agree with Deano completely, asking to leave IS pointless. An arrogant asshole like this cop will take as long as he wants to say the shit he has to say!

At the end of the day...... I'd possibly listen and hear him out, all the time feeling sorry for him. Thinking about how his arrogant attitude has depleted any social life skills he may have had (there goes the relationship!). Thinking how I don't have to put up with the worst shit life has to offer, because he does it for us and worst of all, what a sucker for doing it for peanuts!
And he gets up every day to do a job I wouldn't send my dog out to do!
Thanks Tossifer! :woohoo:

[Dafe]

I've had some previous affiliations to the Police Complaints Authority. Let me tell you, If a cop has really stepped out of his rightful place. Then you should raise a complaint against the Officer, as all complaints are dealt with, regardless of the severity of the complaints. Too many arrogance complaints will soon have an officer under investigation and may result in their dismissal from public duty.

[riffer]

Well, for what's its worth, I had to work in Paraparaumu today so took the opportunity of checking out Paekakariki Hill twice, once between 7.45 and 8.15-ish, and again between 3.00 and 3.30-ish.

Never at any time did I see any policemen or any type of anti-zinging device, which was most disappointing because, just for a laugh, I tried to keep under the speed limits, which basically meant I was doing 70km/hr in the 70km/hr sections and 80km/hr in the 80km/hr sections. This was an example of how to either bore oneself silly, or an exercise in trying to avoid all use of the brakes and practice modulating speed purely by the throttle.

This I achieved with the exception of the 25km/hr corner, for which I changed down from second to first, just for a giggle.

End result - a pretty boring ride. The only entertainment I got was from a Hilux, Evo4, Galant, and some piece of crap Van who all forgot which side of the road they should be driving on.

To add insult to injury, I only spotted one bike the whole ride, and the rotter was going at a much more appropriate speed for the conditions today. No names - but you know who you are - you naughty black R6 rider you :devil2: - hope you had a better ride over the hill.

I think after 25 October I may have to reconsider whether I want to stay at 70km/hr through Battle Hill - but until then - I'll be good.

Only 10 more days at 95 demerits... :dodge:

[Patrick]

Most liquor ban bylaws allow the transportation of liquor and the above case would I believe qualify. (How else are you meant to get liquor home from a bottle store in the CBD ?)

Given the circumstances you describe and the fact that the intent of the bylaw is to prevent public disorder, I would say this was very poor policing.

Spot on...that cop overstepped his authority. Liquor bans here are the same. If carrying it to consume it, take it from the area (not seize and destroy on the spot!). If carrying it as a gift, well...surely common sense would normally prevail? If consuming? Good luck../ bust his arse!

[Patrick]

(3)An enforcement officer in uniform or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, who is for the time being engaged in the regulation of traffic on a road, may—

If the cops not wearing the hat in the car I don't need to stop see..... :whistle:

Sorry, wrong...distictive badge also includes the badge on their shirt shoulders...

[NordieBoy]

half of my posts get deleted to! an some times i know im just not buzzing out because someone will have given me rep for it an then when i go back an look for it its gone!

Maybe you're on your ignore list?

[spudchucka]

Auckland city council info on alcohol bans (http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/documents/liquorban/default.asp)

Does not apply to private homes, any premises with a liquor license, or transport out of or through.If you spoke to the Auckland police and asked them about how the alcohol bans are pratically applied I think you would find that they only target people with open vessels and people actively consuming. This is usually the case with some exceptions such as the Mount, Taupo and a few other places on news years eve.

http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/council/documents/liquorban/police.asp

Powers of the police

* it is an offence to knowingly disobey the liquor ban. The police can arrest you if you commit an offence against the alcohol ban, or if they have reasonable cause to suspect that you have done so
* if you are carrying or drinking alcohol in a public place within the ban area, the police will give you the opportunity to leave the area or tip it out before searching you or your car
* the police will only arrest people who refuse to comply with a request to leave the area or tip their alcohol out
* the police will not target people carrying alcohol to a BYO restaurant to have it with a meal
* the police can confiscate alcohol as evidence if an arrest is made
* the legislation allows the police to impose a maximum penalty of $500.

[Ixion]

It was not long after the legislation came out. They were perhaps a bit more eager beaver. I have heard of a number of cases of people carrying unopened contianers who have been required to tip them out or leave the area. Silly thing is, if the gentleman in question had told a fib and said he was going to drink it over dinner in a BYO, he'd probably have been believed. He's the sort of guy who always tells the truth, but.

Real point though, coming back to the original post, is not the law, but the attitude of the cop, which was really bad. In your face, arrogant, cocky. And,as previous disclaimer, its the small 1 or 2 % minority of officers that are the issue here. Most police handle interaction with the public (even the "difficult" ones) politely and professionally. Unfortunately, there's that small percentage who don't (inevitable, but with 7000 cops even a few percent is still quite a number). And when people run up against one of these, they really remember it for a long time, and also feel pissed off that there's nothing they can do about what is perceived as unacceptable behaviour.

[Drunken Monkey]

...dont get me wrong but i can out corner any cage over there easy [smoked a mitsi evo/ boy racer in the same hairpins] ...

Whatever. Smoked a mitsi sigma running on 3 cylinders maybe. I can ride my mountain bike faster than those gn250s go. 'Smoke' an Evo? In your farken dreams.

[inlinefour]

Not sure what that is, will have to ask if or when I next get pulled over by a HP car. Not even sure if my new bike is capable of zinging, or for that matter if I am also. Don't get on Spud's back people, he is after all just trying to offer some good legal advice from the Police side of the fence. I doubt if there are many ploddoes that would actually do that, cheers Spud. We allways have to put up from attitude from people at some stage in our lives, its how we respond to it that really only counts. Who cares if the HP in question was having a bad day or if he should have done this or that? I view the Police much like what the ref says on a rugby field. Be polite, do what he/she says and then get away from them and wait until they are not looking if your doing something dodgey. Either that or stop the dodgey behaviour as they are making some good points. At the end of the day the HP is doing their job. Local one pulled up beside me on my first ride on the new pit bike. Gave me the thumbs up, stated nice bike and be carefull on it. Maybe its the cager pillicks that have him so annoyed and its their "zinging" that has him so wound up. Could be that he has seen a few fatal bike crashes and does not what to see you do it next. Might have an attitude, but we could speculate as to why and still be no closer to the truth. All I reckon is that if we do zing, do so safely and keep the rubber side down and watch out for cager wannabes who think its their right to zing also. :niceone:

[Monsterbishi]

Main Entry: zing
Pronunciation: 'zi[ng]
Function: noun
Etymology: imitative
1 : a shrill humming noise
2 a : an enjoyably exciting or stimulating quality : ZEST <really put some zing into this industry -- Erwin Fine> b : a sharply piquant flavor <barbecue sauce with zing>

So were you being shrill, or zesty? From memory, they can ticket you for shrill, but not zesty :-)

Source: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=zing

[spudchucka]

It was not long after the legislation came out. They were perhaps a bit more eager beaver. I have heard of a number of cases of people carrying unopened contianers who have been required to tip them out or leave the area. Silly thing is, if the gentleman in question had told a fib and said he was going to drink it over dinner in a BYO, he'd probably have been believed. He's the sort of guy who always tells the truth, but.There have been a number of cases where the police have got it wrong, particularly in the early days of alcohol bans and I believe that the legislation was ammended to remove the ambiguity that had been responsible. Thats as I recall it anyway, I could be wrong.

The areas that I have worked in with alcohol bans have taken the approach of targeting known trouble makers with zero tolerance to open vessels and active consumption. There are signs throughout the CBD and when the ban was introduced in one town I worked in the cops spent the first couple of months warning people to educate them. The good people of the town who simply make a mistake through ignorance are not targeted for apprehension, however they will be asked to comply with the regulations if they have open vessels. As far as I'm aware this is the approach taken throughout NZ.



Real point though, coming back to the original post, is not the law, but the attitude of the cop, which was really bad. In your face, arrogant, cocky. And,as previous disclaimer, its the small 1 or 2 % minority of officers that are the issue here. Most police handle interaction with the public (even the "difficult" ones) politely and professionally. Unfortunately, there's that small percentage who don't (inevitable, but with 7000 cops even a few percent is still quite a number). And when people run up against one of these, they really remember it for a long time, and also feel pissed off that there's nothing they can do about what is perceived as unacceptable behaviour.I'm not disputing any of that other than to say that repeated complaints against an individual cop are certainly noted by supervisors. If a cop attracts repeated complaints, even of a minor nature it will become a performance issue that he / she will have to improve.

[Lou Girardin]

In the context of the Land Transport Act 1998 I think it is reasonable to assume that the term road would in some way involve the use of motor vehicles.

I'm surprised at you Spudlet, you do not assume unless there is case law to support it.
You should well know that you can require details from pedestrians and cyclists "on a road".

[Lou Girardin]

Sorry, wrong...distictive badge also includes the badge on their shirt shoulders...

Sorry, you're wrong. Read the legislation. Cap, hat or helmet WITH a distinctive badge AFFIXED to it.
Shoulder flashes do not comply.

[spudchucka]

I'm surprised at you Spudlet, you do not assume unless there is case law to support it.
You should well know that you can require details from pedestrians and cyclists "on a road".
Do you need case law to confirm that the Land Transport Act, which is being discussed, is in fact legislation concerning roads and road users?

Or are you so thick that you think its all about Jantar's shit pond? Just give me plenty of notice when you are going to ride the bandit across the poo lake so I can come along for a laugh.

[spudchucka]

Sorry, you're wrong. Read the legislation. Cap, hat or helmet WITH a distinctive badge AFFIXED to it.
Shoulder flashes do not comply.
Geez Louie, didn't you read the whole subsection? If a cop is wearing a shirt with badges on the shoulders / sleeves, he must surely be "in uniform"!


114.Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc—

(1)An enforcement officer who is in uniform, or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, may signal or request the driver of a vehicle to stop the vehicle as soon as is practicable.

[Slingshot]

you naughty black R6 rider you :devil2: - hope you had a better ride over the hill.

It wasn't me...no honest it wasn't.






No no, really, it wasn't me!!!

[Lou Girardin]

Geez Louie, didn't you read the whole subsection? If a cop is wearing a shirt with badges on the shoulders / sleeves, he must surely be "in uniform"!

Geez Spudlet, Patrick was referring to shoulder flashes as a distinctive badge. The badge referred to is a cap badge.

[Lou Girardin]

Do you need case law to confirm that the Land Transport Act, which is being discussed, is in fact legislation concerning roads and road users?

Or are you so thick that you think its all about Jantar's shit pond? Just give me plenty of notice when you are going to ride the bandit across the poo lake so I can come along for a laugh.

You're obscuring the issue again Spud. You assumed the definition of 'road'
referred to areas usable by motor vehicles.

[spudchucka]

Geez Spudlet, Patrick was referring to shoulder flashes as a distinctive badge. The badge referred to is a cap badge.
My shirts have badges. I don't know what a shoulder flash is. Something to do with being a MOT snake I guess.

[spudchucka]

You're obscuring the issue again Spud. You assumed the definition of 'road'
referred to areas usable by motor vehicles.
How many fuckwit pills did you take this morning? The only assumption I made about the definition of road was that it doesn't include Jantar's shit pond!

[Jantar]

You make that assumption SC, yet the legal definition of a road that you supplied clearly DOES include my irrigation pond. My shit pond is not accessible by the public, and so does not meet your definition of a road.

I was merely using my pond, walnut grove and horse paddock as examples in pointing out how rediculous your intereptation of the definition of a road really is.

[WINJA]

How many fuckwit pills did you take this morning? The only assumption I made about the definition of road was that it doesn't include Jantar's shit pond!
WHY DONT YOU FUCK OFF AND GET A BIKE , THEN PERHAPS YOULL HAVE SOMETHING INTERESTING TO TALK ABOUT

[ducatilover]

Whatever. Smoked a mitsi sigma running on 3 cylinders maybe. I can ride my mountain bike faster than those gn250s go. 'Smoke' an Evo? In your farken dreams.
well..........obviously you cant ride a gn very well at all. if you hadn't guessed this boyracer was obviously NOT a good driver he wasnt even taking a line of any sort [apart from 'fuck corner swerve] and i was leaning so hard my pegs were folding up. :devil2:


i did exagerate with the smoked part. he was pissing me off enough for me to be a complete spazz and nearly run myself off the road........

are misti sigma's quite fast running on three cylinders?

and i'm keen to challenge you and your push bike over the pahiatua track, i'll even give you a 20 min head start :devil2:

[Drunken Monkey]

...and i was leaning so hard my pegs were folding up. :devil2:

oohhh you must be sooo fast, probably give Rossi 'the learn', eh?


and i'm keen to challenge you and your push bike over the pahiatua track, i'll even give you a 20 min head start :devil2:

You'll be needing the 20 min head start.

[ducatilover]

oohhh you must be sooo fast, probably give Rossi 'the learn', eh?



You'll be needing the 20 min head start.
well i dont think i could give rossi the learn. and what the fuck is your problem?? surely you know that if a rider knows a road well enough or better than some boyracer bitch he is almost destined to win. especially on a road such as the pahiatua track. he eventually over took me but it took quite a while for him to do so as i pulled away so far in these certain HARPINS. and an evo obviosly has an advatage when finnaly hitting the straights..... :crybaby:


also thank you for the sooo fast comment, but i am not really a very fast rider. sorry to burst your bubble. :whistle:

[spudchucka]

You make that assumption SC, yet the legal definition of a road that you supplied clearly DOES include my irrigation pond. My shit pond is not accessible by the public, and so does not meet your definition of a road.

I was merely using my pond, walnut grove and horse paddock as examples in pointing out how rediculous your intereptation of the definition of a road really is.
The definition was cut and paste directly from the legislation so don't label it as "mine".

The original context of the discussion was about a driveway, in particular, the entrance to a driveway in which a motorist had stopped. If you want to twist it around to moronic discussions about shit ponds and walnut groves then this discussion isn't worth pursuing.

[Deano]

surely you know that if a rider knows a road well enough or better than some boyracer bitch he is almost destined to win.

Almost destined, true.


as i pulled away so far in these certain HARPINS.

From an Evo....on a GN250...in fact on any bike ??? Boy racer must have been a severe softcock.

[Drunken Monkey]

... as i pulled away so far in these certain HARPINS.

Pfffft! Ever stop to think he had to back off for fear of ramming you off the road?


... and an evo obviosly has an advatage when finnaly hitting the straights.....

...and corners, and in the wet, uphill, downhill, with the handbrake still on...

[ducatilover]

Almost destined, true.



From an Evo....on a GN250...in fact on any bike ??? Boy racer must have been a severe softcock.
the point that he was or is a soft cock doesnt change anything. i still out cornered him.

people like drunken monkey seem to automatically assume that, being a boy racer in a relatively fast car the boy racer is suddenly a good driver, or.....did drunken monkey recently get humbled by an evo?? either way i still managed to out corner an evo [even if it was poorly driven, with all that shit DM said wrong with it] and if the road was wet he would have won by a huge margin, as i hare riding faster than normal in the wet. oh by the way i had trouble keeping up with a mazda eunos 600 today, i was riding quite hard and i was only pulling a little bit more in/mid corner speed. i need to work on my lines....



on a different note, I was overtaken by a new model gsxr today, of course over the pahiatua track, was that any body here?? if it was i am impresed by how much acceleration those bikes have, frikin good rider too. i only saw him for a little while. i was following a truck a car and a ute up a hill and i check my mirror and hello gixxa i then look in front and goodbye gixxa :niceone: whoever it was good onya i am humbled........[from that mazda, theres no way i could beat a gixxa, even if it was a bad rider, i mean reeeeeeeeeaaal bad rider who has to ask 'is it manual or auto?'] :argh:

[NordieBoy]

WHY DONT YOU FUCK OFF AND GET A BIKE , THEN PERHAPS YOULL HAVE SOMETHING INTERESTING TO TALK ABOUT

Jeeze you spout a lot of...................





Sorry, just got distracted by your avatar therrre for a few minutes.
Where was I......
Oh yes, carry on...

[Drunken Monkey]

...people like drunken monkey seem to automatically assume that, being a boy racer in a relatively fast car the boy racer is suddenly a good driver, or.....did drunken monkey recently get humbled by an evo?? ...

No, people like you always assume if someone is driving faster than a sedate pace in an even remotely sporty car anywhere in your vicinity that they're racing you. You can't 'smoke' someone who doesn't give a rats arse whether you're in front of him or not. Hey, my station wagon beat a Porsche off the line at the lights - yeah, I 'totally smoked a Porsche' - NOT. Wkid1 can give you a lecture about mechanical grip and why, all things being equal, your GN will never out handle an evo, corners or straight.

I have been 'humbled' by slower cars than evos. I've been 'humbled' by smaller capacity bikes than a GN250 as well (probably not as farking slow despite the smaller motor though) (that's right 2Smoker, your ears are getting hot) - edit - actually I haven't been 'humbled' because I didn't have an ego to bruise in the first place. I've never thought of myself as a genuine fast rider.

You've certainly brought down your original boastful post to a more beleivable level. My job here is done. No hard feelings I hope.

[ducatilover]

i give up, i was the more sportily inclined person at the time of these events.

no hard feelings. my brother can outrace me in his mazda 323 1300, except that i can pull more speed into and in the middle of a corner, then he pulls away again.

dont worry i will one day challenge a person on a bike similar or smaller to mine and i will definately get my arse whipped. its just that i seem to be able to out corner anyone that has tried to keep up with me, if they're in a cage......sometimes......on really slow [eg 25k/35k] corners..... :crybaby:

it still felt good :devil2:

[madboy]

Are we still bashing naughty pigs or are we just settling for each other now?

It's taken me bloody days to wade through the crap spouted in this thread... but at least I understand what ZING means now. I gather it means whatever the cop wants it to, end of story.

And as for those who believe complaining to the PCA will help, things must have really changed since I last complained to them. Cos back then it was investigated by a senior sergeant from the same station as the officers I complained about. And he thought the officers versions of events (even though there were five very different versions from six officers) were perfectly acceptable. And flat out accused my parents, nice fine upstanding middle class white folk with clean records, who had witnessed the whole event, of lying.

Then Dad brought out the photos.

It was nice of the PCA to buy me a new windscreen. In case you guys feel like having a wee play with the cops, it is not necessary to break the offenders windscreen with your baton while the offender is handcuffed on the ground with a cop on top of him, but it is necessary to apply handcuffs so firmly that marks are evident a week later, particularly when someone is NOT resisting. Straight from the PCA.

C***smokers wonder why I don't like them... Might be actions of a few and all that, but since they don't wear signs, I assume they're all smokers until proven otherwise.

[Kittyhawk]

What if you aren't zinging what if youre being zippy around the city or what if you're unzinging do you get a reward?
I would have told that tosser where to go and go nag the real idiots on the road. I mean its not like you had a stolen bike no licence and belonged to a dodegy gang! (hope you dont )
He obviously has nothing better to do that be an arsehole and provoke the public.
Complain bitch or piss him off and do a runner (if your bike is fast enoough hehe)

[Lias]

Contrary to popular opinion and the assumption of so many in this thread, cops don't generaly pull people over simply to screw with them and muck them around. There may be some that do but I'm confident in saying that the majority don't. Therefore if you think they have finished doing whatever it was they were doing and you want to get on your way, just politely ask if there is any other reason that they may require you to remain stopped, if not, you are free to go.


I'll have to agree to disagree with you on that one. Alot of my antipathy towards coppers comes from regularly being pulled over in my youth for no good reason at all. Simply for being a car full of guys with shaved heads in a hq/cortina/commodore etc. Hell even if me and my mates went to town, coppers would often stop and give us grief just walking around.

As far as i'm aware its never been illegal to wear black jeans, steelcapped boots, and drive around in fords and holdens, but mate I'd swear a few hundred cops have thought it was over the years.

[Patrick]

Sorry, you're wrong. Read the legislation. Cap, hat or helmet WITH a distinctive badge AFFIXED to it.
Shoulder flashes do not comply.

WRONG! Comes under the "uniform" part...the badge on the shoulder is the badge of your "authority..." (I.e: the oath of office, uphold the laws of the land, etc, etc, etc) and as for shoulder flashes??? Say what?

Don't need to be wearing a hat if in uniform...

[Ixion]

WRONG! Comes under the "uniform" part...the badge on the shoulder is the badge of your "authority..." (I.e: the oath of office, uphold the laws of the land, etc, etc, etc) and as for shoulder flashes??? Say what?

Don't need to be wearing a hat if in uniform...

Bit difficult to wear at hat if you're a bikey cop ? Unles sthe skid lid counts

[MD]

Apart from a bit of sidetracking this thread has gone along great. I think my original intention was to warn you scumbag pricks to be wary of Mr Plod on that bit of road.
Still some ask what is zinging. It's obvious. Riding with zest or in a zippy manner or with zoom or zap in your stride or zealous cornering or zzzzz :whocares:

[gamgee]

i can hear someone zinging around down in the valley right now, shit they sound like they're canning it, sounds like a bloody F1 car, going to the redline in three gears then easing off obviously don't want to get up to licence losing speeds :niceone:

[N4CR]

i can hear someone zinging around down in the valley right now, shit they sound like they're canning it, sounds like a bloody F1 car, going to the redline in three gears then easing off obviously don't want to get up to licence losing speeds :niceone:

1st three gears to redline in most sportsbikes is over liscence loosing speed mate ;) (even some 250's)

It excites me when I hear that, someone is having fun heheheh. Best one is when you hear a bike taking it to a civic or something way up on eastridge (a while away)... BIKE = WINNNN :devil2:

[spudchucka]

I'll have to agree to disagree with you on that one. Alot of my antipathy towards coppers comes from regularly being pulled over in my youth for no good reason at all. Simply for being a car full of guys with shaved heads in a hq/cortina/commodore etc. Hell even if me and my mates went to town, coppers would often stop and give us grief just walking around.

As far as i'm aware its never been illegal to wear black jeans, steelcapped boots, and drive around in fords and holdens, but mate I'd swear a few hundred cops have thought it was over the years.
Car loads of young guys, (with skin heads) cruising around town??????????????

Sort of fits a certain demographic of regular trouble makers.

Think about it real hard and see if you can figure out why the cops regularly pull over people fitting the description you have given of yourself.

[spudchucka]

WRONG! Comes under the "uniform" part...the badge on the shoulder is the badge of your "authority..." (I.e: the oath of office, uphold the laws of the land, etc, etc, etc) and as for shoulder flashes??? Say what?

Don't need to be wearing a hat if in uniform...
He must be talking about epaulettes.

[gamgee]

1st three gears to redline in most sportsbikes is over liscence loosing speed mate ;) (even some 250's)

It excites me when I hear that, someone is having fun heheheh. Best one is when you hear a bike taking it to a civic or something way up on eastridge (a while away)... BIKE = WINNNN :devil2:
yeah i know, that's why i'm hoping it's a 250, shit i can probably do about 120 in 3rd on the vt, i've done 65 in first, and that wasn't quite at the redline

[Lou Girardin]

WRONG! Comes under the "uniform" part...the badge on the shoulder is the badge of your "authority..." (I.e: the oath of office, uphold the laws of the land, etc, etc, etc) and as for shoulder flashes??? Say what?

Don't need to be wearing a hat if in uniform...

You are mixing two parts of the section. He must have a hat etc with a badge affixed OR be in uniform with or without cap. You can't just stick a badge on a blue shirt.

[spudchucka]

You are mixing two parts of the section. He must have a hat etc with a badge affixed OR be in uniform with or without cap. You can't just stick a badge on a blue shirt.
Can a detective in plain clothes stop a vehicle pursuant to section 114?

[Patrick]

You are mixing two parts of the section. He must have a hat etc with a badge affixed OR be in uniform with or without cap. You can't just stick a badge on a blue shirt.

We didn't... the gummint did tho, it has the crest, a maori chick and a blondie shiela and other bits and pieces all legal like, and politically correct too I might add...the old epaulettes and shirts had nothing, which is why the hat and badge thingee came to the fore.

[Patrick]

Can a detective in plain clothes stop a vehicle pursuant to section 114?

Ooooh, oooh I know this one... :Offtopic:

[Deano]

Can a detective in plain clothes stop a vehicle pursuant to section 114?

Only if he can catch it...... :blip: