And so it begins...

[TheDemonLord]

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/personalfinance/coffee-prices-go-up-as-minimum-wage-rises/ar-AAvDjar?li=BBqdk7Q&ocid=iehp

As much as I loathe quoting MSN as a source, It's only taken 7 days for the knock on æffect of a minimum wage rise to start impacting the costs of goods and services. Which is namely one of the reasons why I'm generally against such a rise - everything ends up more expensive, and those on minimum wage end up right were they started.

So here's the question - is there another way that might actually work?

[jasonu]

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/personalfinance/coffee-prices-go-up-as-minimum-wage-rises/ar-AAvDjar?li=BBqdk7Q&ocid=iehp

As much as I loathe quoting MSN as a source, It's only taken 7 days for the knock on æffect of a minimum wage rise to start impacting the costs of goods and services. Which is namely one of the reasons why I'm generally against such a rise - everything ends up more expensive, and those on minimum wage end up right were they started.

So here's the question - is there another way that might actually work?

Expect another price rise if/when the 5 week a year holidays gets in.

[RDJ]

Most of us worked at some time or another for below minimum wage. We learned to turn up, take orders, learn by seeing-then-doing, learned to get along with co-workers, learned discipline beyond that taught at home and school, and finally - sooner or later - learned (after a while) to add a value greater than what we cost our employer, t the goods we helped make or the services we helped provide. That's why a starting wage is a good idea. A minimum wage, not so much.

There is no way a minimum wage can add permanent jobs because paying people more than they are worth in terms of their labour is a good way to go broke. People can and do move up off the minimum wage.

But lefties and Labour and Greenies - but I repeat myself - never learn. They are always 'surprised' that their historically idiotic ideas fail again, and cause others problems. Who'd have thunk.

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/06/26/study-seattle-minimum-wage-costs-jobs/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelsaltsman/2017/12/15/why-the-15-minimum-wage-will-cost-california-400000-jobs/#7e9f05ed43b9

[oldrider]

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/personalfinance/coffee-prices-go-up-as-minimum-wage-rises/ar-AAvDjar?li=BBqdk7Q&ocid=iehp

As much as I loathe quoting MSN as a source, It's only taken 7 days for the knock on æffect of a minimum wage rise to start impacting the costs of goods and services. Which is namely one of the reasons why I'm generally against such a rise - everything ends up more expensive, and those on minimum wage end up right were they started.

So here's the question - is there another way that might actually work?

Answer to your question - Yes there is! :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

Most of us worked at some time or another for below minimum wage. We learned to turn up, take orders, learn by seeing-then-doing, learned to get along with co-workers, learned discipline beyond that taught at home and school, and finally - sooner or later - learned (after a while) to add a value greater than what we cost our employer, t the goods we helped make or the services we helped provide. That's why a starting wage is a good idea. A minimum wage, not so much.

There is no way a minimum wage can add permanent jobs because paying people more than they are worth in terms of their labour is a good way to go broke. People can and do move up off the minimum wage.

But lefties and Labour and Greenies - but I repeat myself - never learn. They are always 'surprised' that their historically idiotic ideas fail again, and cause others problems. Who'd have thunk.

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/06/26/study-seattle-minimum-wage-costs-jobs/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelsaltsman/2017/12/15/why-the-15-minimum-wage-will-cost-california-400000-jobs/#7e9f05ed43b9

Hang on a sec though - the Left types DO have a point - It's bad for society if people end up with nothing, and no way to get out of it - this is a major driver for Crime and in it's worst case, you get revolution (a la French) - which never ends well.

It is something to be concerned with, but the Minimum wage seems more about opiating the masses than fixing the problem. The issue is - How DO you fix the problem?

[TheDemonLord]

Answer to your question - Yes there is! :yes:

I know where you are going with that, I don't want to derail this thread - I'll simply state - we've never seen that solution work in anything outside of a hunter-gatherer existence.

[MarkH]

It kinda makes sense to have a minimum wage so that even the low paid jobs are better paying than the dole.
But cranking up that minimum wage to $20/hr? When I heard that idea my thought was "gee, that's going to fuel inflation".

Now, why did I think that increasing wages would cause inflationary pressure? Well, how could it not? If it costs more to the supermarket for the pay to the staff then where will that extra money come from? Their only source of income is the margin on the goods they sell, so those extra costs have to come out of that - which means that they need to increase the margin to increase the income to pay the higher wages.

Do companies have any other options? Well, they could turn to automation and reduce staff numbers. In fact I have seen this in action, minimum wage staff being replaced by technology, as well as higher paid staff of course. Go in to almost any McDonalds and you will see less staff taking orders than there used to be a couple of years back, there are touch screen computers doing a lot of order taking - they cost a LOT less than a person.

So yeah, good one Labour. Put up the minimum wage. It's not like that will increase inflation and unemployment . . . wait . . . oh, shit - that's exactly what it will do.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hang on a sec though - the Left types DO have a point - It's bad for society if people end up with nothing, and no way to get out of it - this is a major driver for Crime and in it's worst case, you get revolution (a la French) - which never ends well.

It is something to be concerned with, but the Minimum wage seems more about opiating the masses than fixing the problem. The issue is - How DO you fix the problem?

In Nu Zillin?

a flat tax for everyone (individuals, trusts, corporations) kicking it say $25k/yr. Call it 20%. Tax companies that make money here but repatriate the profits offshore (Google, Farcebook et al)

Universal basic income. Thats a win win because it allows you to dismantle massive government departments full of fuckwits/cost

All those people on unemployment and liberated from the gubblemunt departments I have just obliterated? Get them to work building houses. Yes, making another govt department. I am ok with that.

invest MASSIVELY in public transport

hugely increase environmental regulation. If it involves strangling fucking Font error - so be it.

[TheDemonLord]

In Nu Zillin?

Doesn't have to be - but let's entertain it


a flat tax for everyone (individuals, trusts, corporations) kicking it say $25k/yr. Call it 20%.

I'm down with that.


Tax companies that make money here but repatriate the profits offshore (Google, Farcebook et al)

Not a fan of Taxing the Internet tbh, once you start taxing something, you can claim ownership over it, once you claim ownership over it, you can start legislating on it.

I'm a bit of an Internet Anarchist.


Universal basic income. Thats a win win because it allows you to dismantle massive government departments full of fuckwits/cost

I've read a little on the UBI, I'll be honest - I'm really not convinced, partly for the same reason I think a Minimum wage rise is pointless, and partly because I haven't seen a set of hypothetical figures for a Country Wide scheme that would work - but if you got something like that, I'd love to have a look.

I'd also ask how the UBI would differ in terms of real-world effect, when compared to say a Pension (where an individual gets a set amount, with no relation to any work done, on the premise that it will allow them to live)


All those people on unemployment and liberated from the gubblemunt departments I have just obliterated? Get them to work building houses. Yes, making another govt department. I am ok with that.

Good idea - Will these be Houses dictated by a Government department or houses dictated by the Free Market?


invest MASSIVELY in transport

Agree ;)


hugely increase environmental regulation. If it involves strangling fucking Font error - so be it.

In what way? In order to pay for something like the UBI, Business has got to be able to do business - adding extra compliance costs is likely to kill your economy dead, especially with a burden like the UBI.

Would you be looking to offset the regulations in this area with revoking additional regulation elsewhere? To promote innovation and growth?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Most of us worked at some time or another for below minimum wage. We learned to turn up, take orders, learn by seeing-then-doing, learned to get along with co-workers, learned discipline beyond that taught at home and school, and finally - sooner or later - learned (after a while) to add a value greater than what we cost our employer, t the goods we helped make or the services we helped provide. That's why a starting wage is a good idea. A minimum wage, not so much.

There is no way a minimum wage can add permanent jobs because paying people more than they are worth in terms of their labour is a good way to go broke. People can and do move up off the minimum wage.

But lefties and Labour and Greenies - but I repeat myself - never learn. They are always 'surprised' that their historically idiotic ideas fail again, and cause others problems. Who'd have thunk.

l]

Yeah, but that's because you're such a clever cunt. People less fortunate than your smart self, mentally, may never climb the dizzying heights you have, so will forever be stuck at the bottom of the wage pool. God forbid we pay them a decent wage, so that after being poor mentally, they don't have to be financially fucked too! And oh my fucking GOD!!!!! Your Latte will cost more! Just as well you can afford it as you're so fucking smart! Self centered cunt.

[jasonu]

Yeah, but that's because you're such a clever cunt. People less fortunate than your smart self, mentally, may never climb the dizzying heights you have, so will forever be stuck at the bottom of the wage pool. God forbid we pay them a decent wage, so that after being poor mentally, they don't have to be financially fucked too! And oh my fucking GOD!!!!! Your Latte will cost more! Just as well you can afford it as you're so fucking smart! Self centered cunt.

Not just your latte. Milk, bread, butter, veges, petrol, beer, faggs, all the every day stuff that adds to the already very high NZ cost of living.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not just your latte. Milk, bread, butter, veges, petrol, beer, faggs, all the every day stuff that adds to the already very high NZ cost of living.

Well, if that's what I've gotta do to make shit better for people less fortunate than myself, so be it. I'll still live here. I actually don't mind helping people out you see.

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah, but that's because you're such a clever cunt. People less fortunate than your smart self, mentally, may never climb the dizzying heights you have, so will forever be stuck at the bottom of the wage pool. God forbid we pay them a decent wage, so that after being poor mentally, they don't have to be financially fucked too! And oh my fucking GOD!!!!! Your Latte will cost more! Just as well you can afford it as you're so fucking smart! Self centered cunt.

TBH - if it was just Luxury goods that went up in price, I wouldn't be that irritated by it - because in theory it would go some way to fixing the problem: The poor would have more money to spend and necessity goods would be more affordable for them.

Trouble is, that isn't what happens.

Hence the point of this thread.

[Crasherfromwayback]

TBH - if it was just Luxury goods that went up in price, I wouldn't be that irritated by it - because in theory it would go some way to fixing the problem: The poor would have more money to spend and necessity goods would be more affordable for them.

Trouble is, that isn't what happens.

Hence the point of this thread.

No, you're just feeling sorry for yourself because your trimsoylatte is 5 cents more expensive, and because you prob have 30 a day, it's gonna get hard to hide your addiction from your mrs.

[TheDemonLord]

No, you're just feeling sorry for yourself because your trimsoylatte is 5 cents more expensive, and because you prob have 30 a day, it's gonna get hard to hide your addiction from your mrs.

The hilarious thing about that statement is:

I don't drink coffee at all - can't stand the shit.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The hilarious thing about that statement is:

I don't drink coffee at all - can't stand the shit.

Well there ya go. Something we have in common.

[jasonu]

Well, if that's what I've gotta do to make shit better for people less fortunate than myself, so be it. I'll still live here. I actually don't mind helping people out you see.

But all those day to day things will be more expensive for those less fortunates too. Percentage wise it will hurt them more.

[Crasherfromwayback]

But all those day to day things will be more expensive for those less fortunates too. Percentage wise it will hurt them more.

Well, maybe, just maybe, if they save some money by not buying items they don't really need, they might be able to get ahead eh! Something you can't do, when you're earning shit. But don't let that get in the way of you stomping all over the down trodden mate.

[Akzle]

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/money/personalfinance/coffee-prices-go-up-as-minimum-wage-rises/ar-AAvDjar?li=BBqdk7Q&ocid=iehp

As much as I loathe quoting MSN as a source, It's only taken 7 days for the knock on æffect of a minimum wage rise to start impacting the costs of goods and services. Which is namely one of the reasons why I'm generally against such a rise - everything ends up more expensive, and those on minimum wage end up right were they started.

So here's the question - is there another way that might actually work?

i have a few theories. one involves hanging bankers.
metal prices are going up and up but scrap prices aren't. thanks china.

[jasonu]

Well, maybe, just maybe, if they save some money by not buying items they don't really need, they might be able to get ahead eh! Something you can't do, when you're earning shit. But don't let that get in the way of you stomping all over the down trodden mate.

My take on it is raising mw won't do much to help the down trodden, if anything it may make it worse.

[TheDemonLord]

Well, maybe, just maybe, if they save some money by not buying items they don't really need, they might be able to get ahead eh! Something you can't do, when you're earning shit. But don't let that get in the way of you stomping all over the down trodden mate.

There's a fair amount of data suggesting that of those who inhabit the lower-socioeconomic strata, some are there because they don't do precisely that. If memory serves, it correlates with poor impulse control - meaning they tend to buy something now, to satisfy a short-term gain, forgoing a long-term gain.

[Crasherfromwayback]

My take on it is raising mw won't do much to help the down trodden, if anything it may make it worse.


There's a fair amount of data suggesting that of those who inhabit the lower-socioeconomic strata are there because they don't do precisely that. If memory serves, it correlates with poor impulse control - meaning they tend to buy something now, to satisfy a short-term gain, forgoing a long-term gain.

I think you're talking fucking shit.

[Grumph]

There's a fair amount of data suggesting that of those who inhabit the lower-socioeconomic strata are there because they don't do precisely that. If memory serves, it correlates with poor impulse control - meaning they tend to buy something now, to satisfy a short-term gain, forgoing a long-term gain.

Haven't you just described most impulse/craving driven coffee buyers ? Which is odd as they seem to have money.

I'm another one who don't drink coffee - and don't patronise fast food outlets either where the minimum wage rise might show up next.

[Akzle]

Most of us worked at some time or another for below minimum wage. We learned to turn up, take orders, learn by seeing-then-doing, learned to get along with co-workers, learned discipline beyond that taught at home and school, and finally - sooner or later - learned (after a while) to add a value greater than what we cost our employer, t the goods we helped make or the services we helped provide. That's why a starting wage is a good idea. A minimum wage, not so much.

There is no way a minimum wage can add permanent jobs because paying people more than they are worth in terms of their labour is a good way to go broke. People can and do move up off the minimum wage.

But lefties and Labour and Greenies - but I repeat myself - never learn. They are always 'surprised' that their historically idiotic ideas fail again, and cause others problems. Who'd have thunk.

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/06/26/study-seattle-minimum-wage-costs-jobs/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelsaltsman/2017/12/15/why-the-15-minimum-wage-will-cost-california-400000-jobs/#7e9f05ed43b9

whilst i disagree with the conclusion, the premise is sound.
rbcifgip

[TheDemonLord]

I think you're talking fucking shit.

Nope:

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/7/2693

[Swoop]

So yeah, good one Labour. Put up the minimum wage. It's not like that will increase inflation and unemployment . . . wait . . . oh, shit - that's exactly what it will do.

Couple that onto the fuel tax increases (diesel for delivery / transport vehicles) and inflation will start to head upwards at a concerning rate.

[Voltaire]

Savings tip for Monday:

Whilst I like a nice large ( but not a wanky bowl) cappuccino with cinnamon with a $5 carrot cake with little icing carrots at Fonterra in the

Viaduct, when at ET a $6 packet of plunger coffee lasts a couple of weeks.

Also Tuesdays at Subway the sub of the day is ham for only $4.50, although bringing Vegemite and cheese sammies is less.

Also in ET there is Why Knot where you can by close to expiry stuff like Kapiti cheese and ice cream.

Armed with that you should have your mortgage paid off weeks earlier than the 30 years.

[mashman]

Seattle’s higher minimum wage is actually working just fine (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/06/27/seattles-higher-minimum-wage-is-actually-working-just-fine/?utm_term=.109aa8280eb7)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nope:

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/7/2693

What the fuck has some American study got to do with us mate? Try asking my partner about what happens here in NZ for the people from lower social economic places when given a lil bit of breathing room financially.

[TheDemonLord]

What the fuck has some American study got to do with us mate? Try asking my partner about what happens here in NZ for the people from lower social economic places when given a lil bit of breathing room financially.

I don't know your partner - I'm sure He/She is lovely.

I probably should have pointed out too - I missed a word in my original post, which does rather change the meaning.

I didn't mean all of them - but there is a portion of them that are poor mainly due to poor impulse control. I think I've mentioned before - but there's an interesting Statistic to do with Lottery winners - something like 70% of them end up bankrupt or in a worse financial position than before they won.

Then there are some that are poor due to Mental Illness, some due to low IQ, some due to unforseen circumstance, some due to bone-idle laziness etc. etc.

[rambaldi]

I didn't mean all of them - but there is a portion of them that are poor mainly due to poor impulse control.

Being poor long term can also leads to weak impulse control. Never being able to think about tomorrow financially means if you start stepping out of that space you continue to not think about tomorrow. That is fine until there is a hiccup and you are back to square one.

And it has generational effects. If your parents didn't have a savings account then in general you won't have one.

Fuckin about with the minimum wage can't help with the above but it isn't intended to.

[TheDemonLord]

Being poor long term can also leads to weak impulse control. Never being able to think about tomorrow financially means if you start stepping out of that space you continue to not think about tomorrow. That is fine until there is a hiccup and you are back to square one.

And it has generational effects. If your parents didn't have a savings account then in general you won't have one.

Fuckin about with the minimum wage can't help with the above but it isn't intended to.

That's an interesting line of logic - I'm not sure if the study controlled for that - might be interesting to see how much is nature and how much is nurture.

[AllanB]

I don't mind paying 10c more for a cup of coffee so the person making it can afford the 10c increase in a single liter of fuel our government is taxing.

I only buy one cup a day though so I don't think I'll be helping much.

[husaberg]

Savings tip for Monday:

Whilst I like a nice large ( but not a wanky bowl) cappuccino with cinnamon with a $5 carrot cake with little icing carrots at Fonterra in the

Viaduct, when at ET a $6 packet of plunger coffee lasts a couple of weeks.

Also Tuesdays at Subway the sub of the day is ham for only $4.50, although bringing Vegemite and cheese sammies is less.

Also in ET there is Why Knot where you can by close to expiry stuff like Kapiti cheese and ice cream.

Armed with that you should have your mortgage paid off weeks earlier than the 30 years.
$30 a week will knock two years of a $900,000 mortgage.

[Ocean1]

What the fuck has some American study got to do with us mate? Try asking my partner about what happens here in NZ for the people from lower social economic places when given a lil bit of breathing room financially.

Um, it's based on data from Dunedin?

[Akzle]

might be interesting to see how much is nature and how much is nurture.
...and how much of it is money grubbing jew cunts fucking the docile poulace for a more or less unimpeeded economic takeover of the global jewgolds.

[Akzle]

Um, it's based on data from Dunedin?

serious question.
were your parents carnies?

[BMWST?]

its idealogical.
Why should people who work a normal working week not be able to afford to have a reasonably comfortable existence,when ,by accident of birth someone else can earn millions of dollars.Its just not equitable.And one way or the other it will end.
The most concerning part of this is when the "middle class" cant gain a foothold in "normal" society.The inequality cannot continue.
I dont know what the mechanisnm will be but we have to find a way ,because with so many jobs being lost ,jobs being casualised etc its going to get worseIt will get to the point where an even smaller percentage of people own everything, and the vast majority of people wont have the money to buy the stuff these people need to sell.

[TheDemonLord]

...and how much of it is money grubbing jew cunts fucking the docile poulace for a more or less unimpeeded economic takeover of the global jewgolds.

I wub you too Akzle.

[TheDemonLord]

its idealogical.
Why should people who work a normal working week not be able to afford to have a reasonably comfortable existence,when ,by accident of birth someone else can earn millions of dollars.Its just not equitable.And one way or the other it will end.

I agree it's ideological, however let me first ask a question: How do you make everyone Equal? Well, the historical precedents on this are clear - People are only equal when they are dead.

Then, what do you define as reasonably comfortable and how do you define it? Consider that what we think as reasonable comfort today was the height of excess 30-40 years ago.

Then you have to consider the value of work done - Bill Gates pretty much single handedly changed our lives forever - is his work more or less valuable to the whole of humanity compared to the fast food worker?

And regardless of whether you like it, there is a reality that only a select few have the right combination of innate skills and abilities to be a Bill Gates.


The most concerning part of this is when the "middle class" cant gain a foothold in "normal" society.The inequality cannot continue.
I dont know what the mechanisnm will be but we have to find a way ,because with so many jobs being lost ,jobs being casualised etc its going to get worseIt will get to the point where an even smaller percentage of people own everything, and the vast majority of people wont have the money to buy the stuff these people need to sell.

Definitely it is a concern - hence the thread.

[Woodman]

From the article

"The government calculates the increase will add $129 million a year to the country's wage bill."

Not to mention more tax.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Um, it's based on data from Dunedin?

I rest my case!

[jasonu]

What the fuck has some American study got to do with us mate? Try asking my partner about what happens here in NZ for the people from lower social economic places when given a lil bit of breathing room financially.

A lot of them spend more on lotto, faggs and booze, same as here.

[Akzle]

I wub you too Akzle.

woah woah woah. dinner and a movie first eh

[Akzle]

Then you have to consider the value of work done - Bill Gates pretty much single handedly changed our lives forever - is his work more or less valuable to the whole of humanity compared to the fast food worker?

And regardless of whether you like it, there is a reality that only a select few have the right combination of innate skills and abilities to be a Bill Gates.



Definitely it is a concern - hence the thread.

bil gates is an fucking cunt and micrsosft is 100% shit.
jews. is the reason that happened. the whys and wherefore's are lost on me. (doh! jewgold, that's why!)
which also let morons use computers.

since i don't eat McShit and don't think they should exist it's a hard one to answer. but yes, i would rather check out the checkout chick than have a bill gates on the planet.

[Ocean1]

its idealogical.
Why should people who work a normal working week not be able to afford to have a reasonably comfortable existence,when ,by accident of birth someone else can earn millions of dollars.Its just not equitable.And one way or the other it will end.
The most concerning part of this is when the "middle class" cant gain a foothold in "normal" society.The inequality cannot continue.
I dont know what the mechanisnm will be but we have to find a way ,because with so many jobs being lost ,jobs being casualised etc its going to get worseIt will get to the point where an even smaller percentage of people own everything, and the vast majority of people wont have the money to buy the stuff these people need to sell.

The gini coefficient for NZ has barely budged in decades, the "middle class" have never had it so good.

I know you don't believe that, and therein lies the core of the problem: the perception that it's all turning to shite, when the facts show completely the opposite.

[Voltaire]

$30 a week will knock two years of a $900,000 mortgage.

The banks must be laughing all the way to the bank with the prices of houses here.

Fortunately as a Baby Boomer who got the whole world handed to me on a plate with free everything* I'm ok.


*perceived view of avocado toast, flat white, phone twiddling millennials**:lol:



** possibly a stereotype?

[Ocean1]

The banks must be laughing all the way to the bank with the prices of houses here.

Fortunately as a Baby Boomer who got the whole world handed to me on a plate with free everything* I'm ok.


*perceived view of avocado toast, flat white, phone twiddling millennials**:lol:



** possibly a stereotype?

It's OK, mate, it trickles down to the millennials y'know. :laugh:

[Swoop]

... and micrsosft is 100% shit.

Presumably it's so bad that the world tends to use the products in business / education, out of pity?

Nice rant, but poorly thought out.
1:10. Must try harder.

[Akzle]

Presumably it's so bad that the world tends to use the products in business / education, out of pity?

Nice rant, but poorly thought out.
1:10. Must try harder.

i could never work it out.
you pay.... for shit.

i would hazard that >60% of businesses have a *nix backend. and 99% of shit-that-needs-to-get-done-and-not-fuck-up. like. every supercomputer and all of the internet, too.

like, can you just imagine a BSOD on the LHC?

many educators use linux, cos it's free.
and obvs now going to android (linux kernel) because it's cheap, ubiquitous, and they don't know any better.

[Luckylegs]

woah woah woah. dinner and a movie first eh

lol - Ive seen the movie review thread, You've seen em all

...Perhaps bowling where you can both warm up "fingering dirty holes"

[Crasherfromwayback]

...Perhaps bowling where you can both warm up "fingering dirty holes"

Which reminds me. What's the difference between a bowling ball, and Paula Bennett's vag?







If you really had to, you can eat a bowling ball.

[Berries]

Which reminds me. What's the difference between a bowling ball, and Paula Bennett's vag?
Is it that you can rent one by the hour?

[TheDemonLord]

Which reminds me. What's the difference between a bowling ball, and Paula Bennett's vag?


If you really had to, you can eat a bowling ball.

I dunno, Blow the cobwebs out, scrape the layer of corruption off, remove the Teeth, placate the Demon that resides inside, don your NBC suit.

I'm sure it's possible.





















It would just require a braver man than I

[jasonu]

Which reminds me. What's the difference between a bowling ball, and Paula Bennett's vag?







If you really had to, you can eat a bowling ball.

When I first heard that joke it had summat to do with an aboriginal woman and a cricket ball

[Swoop]

many educators use linux, cos it's free.

Possibly they use it on a personal basis, but mainstream they are using a shedload of standard "office".
Strangely so do a lot of iFelch users.

[Akzle]

Possibly they use it on a personal basis, but mainstream they are using a shedload of standard "office".
Strangely so do a lot of iFelch users.

no, this was institutional. basically WISE clients on an ubuntu/debian/centos server. (3 different implementations)

microshit ported office to Mac. linux purists refuse to h4X0r that shit (mac= nix)
and for why? lotus, open/libre officehas been shitting all over microsoft since the fucken 80s

[Swoop]

...basically WISE clients...
Basically the default setting is an MS product. Others vary but for compatibility reasons the majority still use the "old shit".

[Akzle]

Basically the default setting is an MS product. Others vary but for compatibility reasons the majority still use the "old shit".
i'm not even sure what your point is anymore.
on a semi-related note, UAC on MS is poos. GPedit anyone? i mean what the fuck.
when your underlying file system doesn't support file permissions you're basically shitting in your hands and giving yourself a round of applause. or rather, bill shits in your hands and you pat yourself on the back for not killing any interns today because it's so fucking stupid from the outset.

[EJK]

Minimum wage goes up by almost a dollar, no one bats an eye. Coffee prices goes up by 10 cents and everybody loses their mind. Logic..!!

10 bloody cents!!!

[Swoop]

So, the eco-mentalists' are stopping exploration.

The lunatics are running the asylum.

[Katman]

So, the eco-mentalists' are stopping exploration.

Great move.

The days of fossil fuels are drawing to a close.

[Swoop]

Great move.

The days of fossil fuels are drawing to a close.

So you can accept a world without the other uses of oil and petroleum products?

As for vehicles using alternative fuels, we have a long way to go yet.
Some fools think self-driving cars are "here and now", but we also have a LOT of progress to be made in that department too.

[jasonu]

Great move.

The days of fossil fuels are drawing to a close.

Tell that to your Kraptanna.

[Katman]

So you can accept a world without the other uses of oil and petroleum products?

Have you ever looked into what is able to be produced using hemp?

[Swoop]

Have you ever looked into what is able to be produced using hemp?

There is one, outstanding, sensible reason to avoid the stuff. "Axle".;)

[Akzle]

Electric vehicles make up a tiny percentage of the total number of vehicles in NZ due to their cost and limited run time plus new battery cost. When they make up over 50% of the vehicles in NZ only then will your thinking be correct.

you're a fuckwit

[Voltaire]

Do we have enough Hydro to run the fleet or will my roof become covered in solar panels?

[TheDemonLord]

The funny thing is - I'd love an Electric car: Constant Torque all through the Rev range - sign me up.

Problem is that the technology is not capable of beating a Petrol car in terms of distance or speed of recharge/refuel. Me personally - if Car manufacturers standardized the form factor for Battery Packs and made them accessible - one way to solve both of the above issues is to have it so that when you visit a recharge station, instead of the traditional method of recharging your battery, you simply swap out the empty one for a full one - like you do with the LPG Gas Bottle swap.

Would require a fair amount of co-operation, but concievable would deal to the short coming.

[MarkH]

The funny thing is - I'd love an Electric car: Constant Torque all through the Rev range - sign me up.

Problem is that the technology is not capable of beating a Petrol car in terms of distance or speed of recharge/refuel. Me personally - if Car manufacturers standardized the form factor for Battery Packs and made them accessible - one way to solve both of the above issues is to have it so that when you visit a recharge station, instead of the traditional method of recharging your battery, you simply swap out the empty one for a full one - like you do with the LPG Gas Bottle swap.

Would require a fair amount of co-operation, but concievable would deal to the short coming.

It's been tried and fizzled. It is totally unnecessary anyway, we just need the batteries coming out over the next few years that will give plenty of range. Hell, Tesla have announced a car with 1,000km range - sure it's fucking stupid expensive money, but if cheaper cars can have half that in a few years then we will be able to do pretty much everything we want with electric cars.

There are also technical issues with swapping battery packs that weigh from quarter of a tonne to well over half a tonne.

[Ocean1]

The funny thing is - I'd love an Electric car: Constant Torque all through the Rev range - sign me up.

Problem is that the technology is not capable of beating a Petrol car in terms of distance or speed of recharge/refuel. Me personally - if Car manufacturers standardized the form factor for Battery Packs and made them accessible - one way to solve both of the above issues is to have it so that when you visit a recharge station, instead of the traditional method of recharging your battery, you simply swap out the empty one for a full one - like you do with the LPG Gas Bottle swap.

Would require a fair amount of co-operation, but concievable would deal to the short coming.

And contrary to most green fuckwit's imagination they don't, in fact run on unicorn farts either.

All that nice clean electricity you pour into 'em when you get home from work is far more likely to be oil/gas/coal generated than hydro.

I could respect a regulated or tax driven reduction of transport fuel use. Would hammer living standards across the board, but it's the correct response to over-consumption. Placating fuckwits by promising not to dig up any more in NZ and simply importing the balance in future is purely political capital trading.

[husaberg]

Have you ever looked into what is able to be produced using hemp?

Katman levels of paranoia......

[Graystone]

It's been tried and fizzled. It is totally unnecessary anyway, we just need the batteries coming out over the next few years that will give plenty of range. Hell, Tesla have announced a car with 1,000km range - sure it's fucking stupid expensive money, but if cheaper cars can have half that in a few years then we will be able to do pretty much everything we want with electric cars.

There are also technical issues with swapping battery packs that weigh from quarter of a tonne to well over half a tonne.

Tesla had a drive-on, drive-off demo of a battery swapping station at a trade show a while back. Seems like the real world must have got in the way of that becoming mainstream.

I think they are taking the right approach with regards to pushing the tech forward, but still delivering very useful products. As you say, heavy investment in strange recharging infrastructure will only be superseded in a few years anyway.

[Graystone]

And contrary to most green fuckwit's imagination they don't, in fact run on unicorn farts either.

All that nice clean electricity you pour into 'em when you get home from work is far more likely to be oil/gas/coal generated than hydro.

I could respect a regulated or tax driven reduction of transport fuel use. Would hammer living standards across the board, but it's the correct response to over-consumption. Placating fuckwits by promising not to dig up any more in NZ and simply importing the balance in future is purely political capital trading.

It'd be interesting to see some lifetime efficiencies compared, obviously your fixed power plant makes better use of the fossil fuel, but then you've got transformer and line losses getting it stored in the vehicle, plus the losses getting it out of the battery to the wheels again.
Service/production cost would be another interesting one, very low maintenance for electrics, but a high cost in service items when the batter comes due.

I think in NZ we might be ok on grid percentages, but it's where the extra comes from that will be real resource usage, takes a lot longer to bolster production using renewable energy as electric vehicles drain the grid than it does to throw some more coal into the furnace!

[Akzle]

... to throw some more coal into the furnace!

www.driveonwood.com/

[skippa1]

lol - Ive seen the movie review thread, You've seen em all

...Perhaps bowling where you can both warm up "fingering dirty holes"

Stop it ....youre giving me a semi

[Swoop]

Tesla had a drive-on, drive-off demo of a battery swapping station at a trade show a while back.

Perhaps that would be a better option for "E-racing"?

Instead of refueling they have to get into another complete car. How fucked up is that?

[Graystone]

Perhaps that would be a better option for "E-racing"?

Instead of refueling they have to get into another complete car. How fucked up is that?

To be fair, that's a bit like motogp and tyres.

Or those queer cunts who get out of the car and let some other dude drive it for a while...