What could I have done..?

[KezzaCFC]

Hey
So I’m thinking about a minor spill I had on my bike a couple of years ago.
I was heading to work down Newton rd one wet morning, I was splitting between the cars while going over the motorway bridge. Some lady ran out from behind of the cars in traffic and popped up about 1 or 2m directly in front of me. Worried I was gonna bowl her, I grabbed a fist full of brake
and locked up the front tyre which slid on the white lines. It was either her or me. She looks at me as she continues to walk away, apologises while I’m on my arse, I shake my head at her. Luckily I could ride the rest of the way to work and only had a bump on my knee.

What could I have done differently? Who was at fault? What would happen if insurance had to get involved?

Cheers

[ellipsis]

...Oh no...what have you done...please don't mention, 'not at fault'...ooops, too late...:innocent:

[pritch]

There's several thoughts spring to mind but there's not a lot you can do in a couple of meters. There was a guy here who thought he could stop from 60kph in two meters or something similar, but in the real world? :whistle:

[onearmedbandit]

I've removed three posts from this thread that were in my opinion going to take this thread off topic.

[MarkW]

There’s a heap of things that could be suggested, here are a couple:
When splitting through stationary traffic [it must have been unless the lady was dodging moving traffic as she scampered across the road] reduce your speed to something lower than you were doing. Even at 10kph you are doing 2.7 metres per second so you will still be passing a car every couple of seconds.
When splitting don’t position your motorcycle so that your tyres are on the white paint or the lane defining markers. None of these make for a good braking surface. So stay on the black stuff.
Scan ahead better – most people are taller than a car and so at least part of their body will be above the vehicles. And the bit you should be able to see will be travelling at right angles to you and the other traffic. Obviously if there is a tall vehicle between you and the pedestrian the pedestrian will not be visible.
Don’t “grab” [your word] the front brake. Braking is a progressive action and if the tyre and suspension are not preloaded with the start of the weight transfer that happens when a front brake is applied loss of adhesion of the front wheel is far more likely.
If the front wheel does lock [obviously no ABS was fitted to the motorcycle] then release enough pressure to allow the front wheel to turn again. Traction will then be restored.
I’m not going to get into fault here at all. Or insurance companies.

[KezzaCFC]

There’s a heap of things that could be suggested, here are a couple:
When splitting through stationary traffic [it must have been unless the lady was dodging moving traffic as she scampered across the road] reduce your speed to something lower than you were doing. Even at 10kph you are doing 2.7 metres per second so you will still be passing a car every couple of seconds.
When splitting don’t position your motorcycle so that your tyres are on the white paint or the lane defining markers. None of these make for a good braking surface. So stay on the black stuff.
Scan ahead better – most people are taller than a car and so at least part of their body will be above the vehicles. And the bit you should be able to see will be travelling at right angles to you and the other traffic. Obviously if there is a tall vehicle between you and the pedestrian the pedestrian will not be visible.
Don’t “grab” [your word] the front brake. Braking is a progressive action and if the tyre and suspension are not preloaded with the start of the weight transfer that happens when a front brake is applied loss of adhesion of the front wheel is far more likely.
If the front wheel does lock [obviously no ABS was fitted to the motorcycle] then release enough pressure to allow the front wheel to turn again. Traction will then be restored.
I’m not going to get into fault here at all. Or insurance companies.

Thanks for that, feedback I was looking for. Since then I like to think I've become more aware and if the situation happened again it'd have a different outcome.
RE Fault: Yeah I understand I can't blame anyone but myself.

[pritch]

Don’t “grab” [your word] the front brake. Braking is a progressive action and if the tyre and suspension are not preloaded with the start of the weight transfer that happens when a front brake is applied loss of adhesion of the front wheel is far more likely.
If the front wheel does lock [obviously no ABS was fitted to the motorcycle] then release enough pressure to allow the front wheel to turn again. Traction will then be restored.


That was pretty much my first thought, but 2m (or even five?) is pretty much going to be a panic reflex grab so I didn't mention it. If you are stuck between two columns of traffic you have no room to take evasive manoeuvres so your options are exceedingly limited. It might be better to consider not even putting yourself in that position. If I don't think I can get to the head of a queue of traffic at the lights before they change I don't even try. So the trip might take thirty seconds longer?

[HEsch]

I overlook this bridge and ride over it to work every morning. I wouldn't bother splitting there, too much potential carnage from all the turning traffic (from both directions onto SH16 West, and heading east onto Piwakawaka St at the lights). I constantly see car vs car at those intersections.

Plenty of opportunity to creep up either more slowly or further up the street (towards Symonds St, I'm assuming). If you mean the other way, towards Ponsonby, then I'd definitely avoid splitting, none of the cars know where they're going in all of those lanes - risky.

[nerrrd]

I remember sitting in the queue on Greenlane outside Alexandra Park in Auckland, two stopped lanes of traffic, woman walked out from the left while still talking to her friends who stayed behind, crossed both lanes of stationery traffic only to walk straight into the side of a van heading up the median strip to turn right at the lights - she bounced off, went down, got straight back up and kept going; a split second earlier she would have been dead, a split second later she would have missed the van altogether. She didn't think to check the flush median, just assumed it would be empty.

Really hard to cover all the possibilities when multiple lanes, pedestrians and Auckland traffic are concerned – I'd venture to say that not one single pedestrian in all of Auckland looks out for splitting bikes when they're crossing the road, we have to do it for them.

[george formby]

Can I add to MarkW's worthy advice. You can look through vehicles unless they're tinted. It requires a conscious effort but glass is glass.

In similar situations I've realised that I'm overwhelmed with whats going on.

When I go to the big city on the bike, when it rains, my wee head melts. I have no clue where I'm going. The place is seething.

My normal riding is in Northland.

As soon as I feel the onset of whip lash due to looking at everything around me, trying, I just go with the flow. I worry about the vehicles around me and keep space from them.

Thing is. You picked the bike up and rode to work. Effectively that's a win.

Greater caution and better skills may have saved the day. Maybe not.

Go and do pro rider course, silver or gold I guess. Tell the instructor you want to learn about controlled braking maybe evasion handling.

It's cheap, fun and keeps you honest. A day on the bike under a professional eye can be very surprising.

[FJRider]

... What could I have done differently? Who was at fault? What would happen if insurance had to get involved?

Cheers

It's not what we think you should have done ... it's more what you would do differently. But different days often mean different factors ... and thus a different chain of events ... and thus ... a different end result.

Just look at the factors you were influenced by ... wet road, lane splitting, pedestrians on the road (better than stock on the road) and severe braking on the white lines. Accidents are seldom caused by just one causing factor.

Wet roads are not a big issues in itself ... but it should raise a few red flags in your head to look out for (like white lines, they are usually slippery when wet)).

As you found ... even motorways are not free of wandering things ... on or near it.

Before splitting next time ... scan the road ahead a bit further (and to the sides a bit more too) ahead and look for possible issues.

The legality of splitting depends entirely how you overtake. Overtaking a vehicle in the same lane (on it's left) ... is illegal. Overtaking to the right of a vehicle in the same lane ... is permitted ... if done safely (not necessarily what you deem to be safe).

[SaferRides]

I've removed three posts from this thread that were in my opinion going to take this thread off topic.Thank you.

[MarkH]

What could I have done differently?

You should have been aware of the possibility of pedestrians walking between cars and looked out for them doing that. I'd say that sitting in traffic and not splitting is painful, I'd rather split and make progress. But in places you really do need to move slowly because splitting at speed is likely to lead to problems, I'd recommend keeping it under 10kph on that particular stretch of road.

[eldog]

Newton road, nasty area no matter what type of vehicle you are using.
requires extra care.

2 hills leading to mway on ramp and a major connection between 2 busy areas of cbd.

and full of aucklanders going for their coffee fix.

when I go there, just chill no matter what’s happening.

lane splitting there is always a time and place.

dont worry about fault, think about what you learnt and what you can do to improve.

[Honest Andy]

Yep, cheap lesson. For both parties. She should've seen you and you should've seen her, but obviously you know that.
Glad there were no injuries.
Personally I blame the pedestrian.

I've been caught out by pedestrians too, because I didn't expect them. No good. Bit like car drivers saying they didn't expect a motorbike to be lane splitting...

[KezzaCFC]

Cheers for the feedback all, appreciated.
Have come away with taking a moment to think if what I'm going to do with respect to my surroundings and situations and expect everything! Also ABS.

[caspernz]

I've learned that operating any motor vehicle is 90% mental and 10% physical.

So you'll get serious improvements in your riding if you can change the way you look at things, starting by applying a "scan as far ahead as practicable" approach. Ask yourself "what if" whenever you see things moving towards your path, and avoid tunnel vision.

This doesn't discount the physical actions, as braking requires proper practice, just to use one example.

If you've not done a Rideforever course yet, you'll learn a bit about both of the above there, it's cheap and fun even.

[Akzle]

So you'll get serious improvements in your riding if you can change the way you look at things, starting by applying a "scan as far ahead as practicable" approach. .

I'm not sure where i picked it up, but "12 seconds"


you "should" be able to close your eyes for 12 seconds and continue to operate your vehicle and end up in aproximately the right place. you should have percieved, and accounted for, everything that's going to happen, that far ahead of you. corners and all.

this equates to "slow down in the twisties" which i don't agree with at all. but it's one of the things i have ticking over in my mind when sharing space with (potential or actual) fuckwits.

funny thing, when most people close their eyes (on a private road of course <_< ) the first thing to happen is the speed drops.

[onearmedbandit]

I'm not sure where i picked it up, but "12 seconds"


.

The 12s thing was taught to us at the Defensive Driving course my father made me do to fast track my full license back when I was 15. Still remember a fair bit of it now and employ those lessons every time I'm on the road.

[rastuscat]

The 12s thing was taught to us at the Defensive Driving course my father made me do to fast track my full license back when I was 15. Still remember a fair bit of it now and employ those lessons every time I'm on the road.

It's still taught. Or at least it was when I got qualified 3 years ago. Sage advice too.

Scan as far ahead as the place you are going to be in 12 seconds. Know everything that is happening between where you are now and where you will be in 12 seconds.

Basically, aim to see things that have resolved themselves before you have got there. E.g., see that car coming toward you with his right indicator on. See him so damn early that he's turned right well before you meet the potential conflict point. That's what tells you that you are looking far enough ahead.

[Akzle]

The 12s thing was taught to us at the Defensive Driving course my father made me do to fast track my full license back when I was 15. Still remember a fair bit of it now and employ those lessons every time I'm on the road.
missed this when you first posted.

yes could well have been defensive driving... but it's been many many years since i did it.

...probably not quite as many as you, though :bleh:

It's still taught. Or at least it was when I got qualified 3 years ago. Sage advice too.

Scan as far ahead as the place you are going to be in 12 seconds. Know everything that is happening between where you are now and where you will be in 12 seconds.

Basically, aim to see things that have resolved themselves before you have got there. E.g., see that car coming toward you with his right indicator on. See him so damn early that he's turned right well before you meet the potential conflict point. That's what tells you that you are looking far enough ahead.

aw shucks. you mean it's not down to luck and blaming other people's screw-ups? how ever will we get by?

i guess the method has stood the test of time... a wonder it's not part of the school curriculum, or, like, driver licensing.

vote akzle.

[onearmedbandit]

...probably not quite as many as you, though :bleh:




No idea what you mean there, but in the meantime get off my fucking lawn you little shit.

[rastuscat]

aw shucks. you mean it's not down to luck and blaming other people's screw-ups? how ever will we get by


Smiled when I read this. It's the KB way.

[caspernz]

I'm not sure where i picked it up, but "12 seconds"


you "should" be able to close your eyes for 12 seconds and continue to operate your vehicle and end up in aproximately the right place. you should have percieved, and accounted for, everything that's going to happen, that far ahead of you. corners and all.

this equates to "slow down in the twisties" which i don't agree with at all. but it's one of the things i have ticking over in my mind when sharing space with (potential or actual) fuckwits.

funny thing, when most people close their eyes (on a private road of course <_< ) the first thing to happen is the speed drops.

Yes the 12 second scan is what's advocated officially. Better to look further ahead if possible though, remember my day job involves DG trucking.

Slowing down in the twisties, talking bikes here, this 12 second approach doesn't work. I'm fine with keeping the vanishing point further away than the point by which you can stop, so it needn't be a huge impediment to forward progress.

[ellipsis]

...I just scored a heap of feijoas...I don't have any pork chops...how do you reckon this would go with spaghetti...I have a couple of tins of that...or should I just pass?...


http://www.newworld.co.nz/recipes/pork/pork-chops-feijoa/?utm_source=new%20world%20clubcard%20list&utm_campaign=LMS-MNW-2018-18-01-2018-04-13%20SI%20CC%20Weekly%20eDM&utm_medium=email