House Builders (investment)

[Graystone]

Hello kiwibikers, I could use some advice on building a house. I'm wanting a cheaper build that will appreciate nicely in the short/mid term. Apart from location, do you guys and gals have advice on building companies, design traps to avoid, features that bode well for resale value, etc...

I'm thinking 300-350k on house as turnkey, but sourcing the section myself. Given the turnkey nature of it, some advice on which building companies are worth a go would be much appreciated. Location is Bay of Plenty, I'll probably live in it myself.

[Laava]

Don't use a housing company. The money you save will buy you a brand new bike. The location and subsequent resale value has nothing to do with the cost of building...you will have to do research and make your own decision. I just finished building a 280 m2 house and the people priced with Signature but the extra stuff they wanted to add pushed SH,s price beyond their budget. Not SH's fault either, just to clarify, but they employed me on hourly rate and saved $50k. And got all their cherished extras...

[mashman]

Relocate and renovate?

[Graystone]

Don't use a housing company. The money you save will buy you a brand new bike. The location and subsequent resale value has nothing to do with the cost of building...you will have to do research and make your own decision. I just finished building a 280 m2 house and the people priced with Signature but the extra stuff they wanted to add pushed SH,s price beyond their budget. Not SH's fault either, just to clarify, but they employed me on hourly rate and saved $50k. And got all their cherished extras...

Thanks for your input. Project managing the build is more than I want to take on, and just mitigating that risk through a turnkey contract adds a lot of value to me. I've been told (by buyers) that franchised brands such as Signature, Classic Builders, GJ, etc are things they look for as well.

[GazzaH]

House buyers buy on location, bedrooms, price and stuff, not builder brands. Who told you that? Let me guess:
branded builders.

And franchisees range widely in quality: the franchise is all about marketing not build quality.

I'm not usually this cynical on a Friday night. Been a tough week.

[sidecar bob]

Flat square ish site, no steep banks, no retaining.
Buy existing & if it's just for investment purposes then don't get hung up on buying in the city or town you live in just because it's convenient.
You can only change the house you buy, not the entire neighbourhood. Think about that one hard.
If you decide to buy in another town, you seriously need to understand the lay of the land & the borders between the suburbs & their reputations.

[TheDemonLord]

some bits of advice from multiple people who have built their own:

It will take twice as long as you expect it and it will cost twice as much.

Do your homework on your builder - as others have said - a franchise company is only as good as the franchisee you are dealing with. References and Credit Checks are strongly advised.

The council (who will issue the required consents) is run by incompetent muppets who are paid less than their private sector counterpart and they have an absolute monopoly - so they have zero incentive for helping you get things done quickly.

That said - you can help yourself if you go with a fairly vanilla type build - apparently when there are more rooms than they can count to on one hand - they get confused...

[Laava]

some bits of advice from multiple people who have built their own:
It will take twice as long as you expect it and it will cost twice as much....

It takes 5 months to build a typical size house from spade in the ground to move in day. Barring unforeseen holdups. $2000 m2 will build you an awesome house and that will usually include water tanks and septic systems.

[sidecar bob]

some bits of advice from multiple people who have built their own:

It will take twice as long as you expect it and it will cost twice as much..

That's why I said to buy existing. It's a Fixed price & it's tenanted within three weeks of investing. spend a week or two tidying up the property, chuck some paint around & some new carpet. Find a fantastic tenant, (that's the most important part) & walk away.

[jasonu]

Flat square ish site, no steep banks, no retaining.
Buy existing & if it's just for investment purposes then don't get hung up on buying in the city or town you live in just because it's convenient.
You can only change the house you buy, not the entire neighbourhood. Think about that one hard.
If you decide to buy in another town, you seriously need to understand the lay of the land & the borders between the suburbs & their reputations.

As above. Plus buy the shittyist house on the best street, not the best house on the shittyist street.

[Laava]

That's why I said to buy existing. It's a Fixed price & it's tenanted within three weeks of investing. spend a week or two tidying up the property, chuck some paint around & some new carpet. Find a fantastic tenant, (that's the most important part) & walk away.

Yep, this young lady is looking for a rental apparently?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12036269

[sidecar bob]

Yep, this young lady is looking for a rental apparently?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12036269

Meth much?
Always Facebook prospective tenants, because they always send their best nigger as the advance party.
It's amazing what you will discover.

[Honest Andy]

Since you said you're probably going to live in it yourself, then a new one is a good option. Modern insulation, double glazing, rooms the size you want, pointing towards the sun...
Although there's a few extras you don't get automatically, like clothesline, paths, shed, driveway.
And I'd agree with laava about choice of builders, big franchise companies aren't as good as their advertising suggests, and can be a whole lot worse when they start cutting corners.
Oh and sometimes it's best to use the builder who can't start for 6 months, instead of the one who can start tomorrow...

[HenryDorsetCase]

The single worst experience I or my clients have ever had with a building project has been with a franchised "master" builder. Like dangerously incompetent, weathertightness, north of $100k in litigation costs, most probably a bribe paid to council awful fuckery. Guy flitted to Brisbane (where else?) and the master franchisor (a nationally recognised chain with nauseating TV ads) did not want to know and threatened litigation instead of helping.

Get a local builder. If he/she is any good be prepared to wait. Thats OK, it'll be worth it. Look at a bunch of showhomes. Find a site. Think about access and sun and wind and stuff. Then invest in some A2 or A3 graph paper and sketch that shit yourself. Start from the inside out: where do you spend your time in a house? what do you need? Take it to a competent architectural draughtsperson. Listen to their feedback. Appoint a builder and sit back.

I have vacillated but on balance I think a Certified Builder warranty (or Master Builder) can be worthwhile - if only for resale.

[Graystone]

Thanks for the advice all, certainly some things to think about.

[Laava]

I have posted this before but will post again as it is an awesome tool, even for numpties!
https://plansmachine.co.nz

[Swoop]

Ex-workmate used GJ to build in Pukekohe.
On-time and on-budget. He raved about the quality (in the trade and certainly knows).
However franchise will hugely vary between locations. Talk to previous customers who used a franchise in your area to get a better idea.

Another had a good experience with Sunline homes in Hamilton.
They were very happy to modify plans as well. Mate printed out one of their plans and cut it up with scissors, then "modifed" their design to suit his needs. They were impressed and incorporated the design ideas without issue.

Ask around.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The thing with a franchise builder is that it always comes down to the guy swinging the hammer, running the site and organising everyone. My rule of thumb is simply this: do a site visit. If the site is an untidy shithole, find another builder. If the site is tidy, generally there arent any issues. I have a 100% success rate in gauging this over the years. Interestingly I was talking socially to a council building inspector recently, and he said that it is one of the cues he uses as well.

[Graystone]

I have posted this before but will post again as it is an awesome tool, even for numpties!
https://plansmachine.co.nz

That seems fucking awesome, what's the catch?

[sidecar bob]

Something to think about is having investment property in a different shire to your own home or other properties.
For example, if there is a localised recession, or the government screws your village over, like they have with New Plymouth recently, or like when the Toyota plant shut down in Thames, you haven't got all your eggs in one basket & at least only half your shit is in one sock.

[HEsch]

Something to think about is having investment property in a different shire to your own home or other properties.
For example, if there is a localised recession, or the government screws your village over, like they have with New Plymouth recently, or like when the Toyota plant shut down in Thames, you haven't got all your eggs in one basket & at least only half your shit is in one sock.

Good suggestion. If the market tanks in one location - hopefully it doesn't also tank in the other. Or, your job isn't in jeopardy at the same time so you can ride it out.

[sidecar bob]

Good suggestion. If the market tanks in one location - hopefully it doesn't also tank in the other. Or, your job isn't in jeopardy at the same time so you can ride it out.

It also opens up your life to shifting towns without any real sort of long term commitment other that re arranging a few tenants.
It gives you a few more choices regarding lifestyle & employment opportunities.
Some experts say, "never buy a rental house you would want to live in" I'm no expert, but I believe in the dead opposite.

[JimO]

i try to avoid working for franchise home building companies mainly because they (a) are about to fall over owing you money, (b) see A...but one of the builders i have worked for for around 20 years became a franchisee so i stayed doing his work, over a couple of years all the regular subbies that had been with him from day 1 were replaced with cheaper guys, i was the last to get the chop. He uses new young builders, promises them x number of houses...great they think until they are about 3 houses in and realise there is no money in it for them. Get a proper stand alone builder that way you are paying the guy thats building your house to build your house.........the guy i mentioned before has 3 salespeople and 2 office girls, who do you think is paying for them?

[HenryDorsetCase]

i try to avoid working for franchise home building companies mainly because they (a) are about to fall over owing you money, (b) see A...but one of the builders i have worked for for around 20 years became a franchisee so i stayed doing his work, over a couple of years all the regular subbies that had been with him from day 1 were replaced with cheaper guys, i was the last to get the chop. He uses new young builders, promises them x number of houses...great they think until they are about 3 houses in and realise there is no money in it for them. Get a proper stand alone builder that way you are paying the guy thats building your house to build your house.........the guy i mentioned before has 3 salespeople and 2 office girls, who do you think is paying for them?

I was talking to a guy buying joinery machinery last week. Priority 1: get sales staff to go after the work. It makes sense. Pointless having a couple million plus bucks worth of kit lying about waiting for stuff to do.....

[Laava]

That seems fucking awesome, what's the catch?

There is no catch but the tools are only good for basic floor plans and elevations before you start needing to spend on truss plans, topography etc. but if you use it to design a footprint, specify dimensions, place windows and doors and design a roof, then you can get good clear printable concept plans. Go to an architect and ask for concept plans, you will be surprised how much it would cost, plus you get to do it for yourself, your clients or get your clients to do their own. It is pretty easy...

[BMWST?]

i would do a truss consent for any plan as long as the dimensions are there and the opening sizes are known.I would nominate any wall for load bearing if required unless specifically told not to.I would expect some sort of roof plan but we can develop/amend that too if required.Our normal customers dont ussually pay a fee,but a one of might.Its not at all expensive(in the scheme of building a house).If we do a consent we expect to get the job.If we dont get the job we then might come looking for a fee.