Dangers of E Bikes

[Voltaire]

The Future is E bikes, better for environment, healthy and so on.

Or are they?

Some stats in from Holland are not convincing me to buy one.

[QUOTE]More cycling fatalities than deaths in cars

Disturbing news this morning: more people died on a bike than in a car in the Netherlands in 2017. A total of 206 people died on bicycles and 201 in cars. This is the first time that ever happened. The figure for cycling deaths is also the highest in 11 years. The fatality increase is completely male. The number of killed men went from 125 in 2016 to 148 in 2017. For women the total decreased a little, from 64 in 2016 to 58 in 2017. And yet, when you look at deaths per cycled kilometres, then cycling is becoming safer, not more dangerous.[QUOTE]

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/04/25/more-cycling-fatalities-than-deaths-in-cars/

[Blackbird]

The Future is E bikes, better for environment, healthy and so on.

Or are they?

Some stats in from Holland are not convincing me to buy one.



Stats always require some degree of interpretation and anyone who rides a motorcycle (excepting Cassina) may be at lower significant risk compared with other demographics who use them.

I rode a Scott pedal assist demo model a couple of months ago for the first time and was seriously impressed. Having reached 70 with dodgy knees, I ride my 25 year old mountain bike on the road to keep fit and keep the knees in reasonably good nick. Living in Coromandel, there are only a few routes I can ride which don't have SERIOUS hills and it can get quite boring. An electric bike would open up whole new vistas for me. Not ready to splurge around 5 grand quite yet but maybe a couple of years will see one in the shed.

A mate of mine commutes from West Auckland to Auckland Uni every day mainly by cycleway instead of driving in and he loves it. "Fitness for purpose" and all that..........

[Berries]

Some stats in from Holland are not convincing me to buy one.
I bet they have way more drownings in canals over there as well.

You can't compare cycling in NZ with cycling in Holland.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I am very seriously considering converting my commuter to e-power. Most of the electric bikes I have seen have had pretty shitty cycle parts so I will do the mid drive conversion on a decently specced bike. current thinking is a Bafang mid drive with a 48V battery. Hopefully it will crack 50kph on the flat.... MORE POWER!

[oldrider]

The Future is E bikes, better for environment, healthy and so on.

Or are they?

Some stats in from Holland are not convincing me to buy one.

[QUOTE]More cycling fatalities than deaths in cars

Disturbing news this morning: more people died on a bike than in a car in the Netherlands in 2017. A total of 206 people died on bicycles and 201 in cars. This is the first time that ever happened. The figure for cycling deaths is also the highest in 11 years. The fatality increase is completely male. The number of killed men went from 125 in 2016 to 148 in 2017. For women the total decreased a little, from 64 in 2016 to 58 in 2017. And yet, when you look at deaths per cycled kilometres, then cycling is becoming safer, not more dangerous.[QUOTE]

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/04/25/more-cycling-fatalities-than-deaths-in-cars/

More people living and riding than riding and dying - best focus on what it is you want rather than what you don't want - what you think about usually happens! :drinknsin

[FJRider]

Here in NZ the Motor Vehicle accident death rate is increasing each year. Even with safer roads and safer vehicles ... and even with the improved driver licensing system.

Is the problem really with the bikes ... or the riders ... ??? The increase only with the male population ... suggests the riders are the cause of the increase.

[Grumph]

Here in NZ the Motor Vehicle accident death rate is increasing each year. Even with safer roads and safer vehicles ... and even with the improved driver licensing system.

Is the problem really with the bikes ... or the riders ... ??? The increase only with the male population ... suggests the riders are the cause of the increase.

I'd suspect that those stats from Holland reflect a situational problem. We all know of the born - again biker accident problem here. I'm thinking that E bikes represent a danger to working men whose partners tell them "it's time to get some exercise by going to work on a bike again"
Having the budget - and her permission - they see E bikes as the solution.

Like the born - again's, they are often at a loss in traffic situations. Therefore at high risk...

I might be wrong, but those thinking of a change to E bikes should be wary IMO.

[neels]

I'd suspect that those stats from Holland reflect a situational problem. We all know of the born - again biker accident problem here. I'm thinking that E bikes represent a danger to working men whose partners tell them "it's time to get some exercise by going to work on a bike again"
Having the budget - and her permission - they see E bikes as the solution.

Like the born - again's, they are often at a loss in traffic situations. Therefore at high risk...

I might be wrong, but those thinking of a change to E bikes should be wary IMO.
I think you could be correct.

I've had a number of near misses with low flying e-bikes, and see quite a few more.

While they're probably legally justified in using cycle lanes, when your getting along at 40-50kph you're putting yourself in danger of other road users not expecting it, I have enough trouble at 25-30 on the pushbike with the 'look, think, pull out, shit where did he come from' brain process of car drivers.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I think you could be correct.

I've had a number of near misses with low flying e-bikes, and see quite a few more.

While they're probably legally justified in using cycle lanes, when your getting along at 40-50kph you're putting yourself in danger of other road users not expecting it, I have enough trouble at 25-30 on the pushbike with the 'look, think, pull out, shit where did he come from' brain process of car drivers.

I was a hardcore cycle commuter for 15 years and it is fucking carnage out there.

[FJRider]

While they're probably legally justified in using cycle lanes, when your getting along at 40-50kph you're putting yourself in danger of other road users not expecting it, I have enough trouble at 25-30 on the pushbike with the 'look, think, pull out, shit where did he come from' brain process of car drivers.

Maybe another "Can of worms" has been opened ...

Anybody in officialdom (or recently departed from same) care to comment on E-bike status/legality on the roads of NZ ... ???

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-other-road-users/information-for-moped-riders/


Information for moped riders
A moped is a two-wheeled motor vehicle with an engine capacity of no more than 50cc or which has an alternative power source (for example, electricity). Its maximum speed capability is no more than 50km/h. This definition also includes three-wheeled vehicles registered as mopeds before 10 May 2011.

You are licensed to ride a moped if you have either a motorcycle (Class 6) licence or a car (Class 1) licence. When riding a moped on a Class 1 or Class 6 learner licence, you must display an L plate. If you’re on a learner or restricted licence, you must not ride the moped between 10pm and 5am.

Safety rules for moped riders
A moped is a motor vehicle. Therefore, you must not ride it on the footpath or a cycle path. The exception is where a road controlling authority has authorised the use of a footpath by a moped or motorcycle rider for the purpose of delivering newspapers, mail or other printed material to letterboxes.
You must wear an approved motorcycle safety helmet when riding a moped.

[R650R]

Still too expensive unless you do your own conversion job. I enjoy the exercise of pedalling.
Legally they are a powered bike so think they need a motorcycle spec helmet legally, a blind eye seems to be turned to it by the plod....
You can’t take them in mountain bike parks as all the super fit alpha males are scared of their Strava times being worthless on uphill legs.... And they think they will damage trails.....

The accident stats will be due to unfit people crashing whose bodies aren’t up to crashing and who don’t know how to crash safely if you get my drift....

The technology will only get better tho and cheaper and soon manual pedalling will be looked at like an old hand crank washing machine...

[FJRider]

The Future is E bikes, better for environment, healthy and so on.

Or are they?

Some stats in from Holland are not convincing me to buy one.




A point to ponder on ... does the environment need this ... ??

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/what-to-do-with-87-tons-of-e-bike-batteries-every-year.2486/

[Grumph]

I was a hardcore cycle commuter for 15 years and it is fucking carnage out there.

So what would you estimate as the life expectancy of a male - say 30-40 - who hasn't ridden a pushbike in traffic since he left school ?

I've got mates who have been dedicated cycle commuters and who tell me that finding alternative routes away from traffic is one of the first things to learn.
No one teaches you these things. Maybe someone should....

[Voltaire]

A point to ponder on ... does the environment need this ... ??

https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/what-to-do-with-87-tons-of-e-bike-batteries-every-year.2486/

As far as I know in NZ 'recycling " of lead/acid, lead/gel batteries mean they go in a container off to China or Korea.

One of the other 'great' things of modern life is the plastic water bottle, healthy water for healthy lifestyle...


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2018/01/09/TELEMMGLPICT000135792236_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqpVlberW d9EgFPZtcLiMQfyf2A9a6I9YchsjMeADBa08.jpeg?imwidth= 1400

[pete376403]

Will e-bikers be required to wear proper safety gear or is a few tenths of a millimetre of lycra considered adequate? We have to wear proper approved helmets where a cycle helmet is more akin to a thin flexible polypropylene shell and a bit of polystyrene padding. And then there is the ACC cost - are e-bikers going to get hit with an additional surcharge? Will they pay anything at all?

[Akzle]

e-bikes are like e-cigs and e-mail and e-stroegen and e-cockupthebum and only for pussies who can't manage to do shit the man way.


201. not a bad score for a country with a population five times that of the communist republic of nuu zullund. safer communities together.

[neels]

or is a few tenths of a millimetre of lycra considered adequate?
Isn't it funny how whenever you mention cyclists, the lycra hate immediately appears, even if it bears no resemblance to the average commuter on their e-bike.

People need to be less fixated on stereotypes that have no basis in reality.

[Grumph]

I think you may have jumped on that one a little prematurely. Read in conjunction with the link to Moped regs it's a valid question.

If they get away with cycle gear on something which is capable of over 50kph then one of two things will happen - IMO anyway...

Either ACC will find a way of registering/levying E bikes to cover costs...

Or motorcyclists will have a valid argument for going back to the old rule of not needing a helmet for speeds below 50kph..

I know which is more likely, LOL.

[Voltaire]

e-bikes are like e-cigs and e-mail and e-stroegen and e-cockupthebum and only for pussies who can't manage to do shit the man way.


201. not a bad score for a country with a population five times that of the communist republic of nuu zullund. safer communities together.

Probably say the same for air guitars and air motorcycles:msn-wink:

[FJRider]

As far as I know in NZ 'recycling " of lead/acid, lead/gel batteries mean they go in a container off to China or Korea.

One of the other 'great' things of modern life is the plastic water bottle, healthy water for healthy lifestyle...



I've seen the Chinese way of "Recycling" lead/acid batteries ... It's better for our environment if they do it in their back yard ... and not ours.

[Swoop]

A total of 206 people died on bicycles and 201 in cars. This is the first time that ever happened. The figure for cycling deaths is also the highest in 11 years. The fatality increase is completely male.
Obviously pressure to keep up on a group ride?






A few years ago I looked at the idea of getting one to commute into town on. The price was far too high for what it was and I think it remains that way even now.
For those who purchased one, good on them for getting out of their car and improving their health!

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've seen the Chinese way of "Recycling" lead/acid batteries ... It's better for our environment if they do it in their back yard ... and not ours.

these are all lithium ion which are fantastic, environmentally speaking

[Graystone]

these are all lithium ion which are fantastic, environmentally speaking

Unfortunately the lithium ion ones often go to the same place, make a good bang when they hit the reduction furnace...

[HenryDorsetCase]

So what would you estimate as the life expectancy of a male - say 30-40 - who hasn't ridden a pushbike in traffic since he left school ?

I've got mates who have been dedicated cycle commuters and who tell me that finding alternative routes away from traffic is one of the first things to learn.
No one teaches you these things. Maybe someone should....

I have no idea what the stats are for that but theres a lot of fat cunts like me who decide "cycling will keep me fit" and "its the new golf" and "so many great business networking opportunities" and they dont want to get all grubby and havent got the skillz to ride a mountainbike so they go out and drop serious coin on a road bike (Pinarello? sure! Ultegra - of course!) and a full team strip and wobble their way off into the sunset at 19 kph. That stereotype is a stereotype for a reason. Then they get out on the road and they display zero situational awareness, ride three abreast, and generally behave as they do when behind the wheel of their Audi SUV. Again, it happens often enough that its a stereotype for a reason.

One thing I will say for Christchurch city council - the cycleway network has been improved immensely and the separated, dedicated cycleway is the best incentive to bike ever. And yes, that thing about finding quiet streets? Absofuckinglutely. Also, picking a commute route that avoids fucking schools and those childcare places because the most dangerous driver on the road is a Merivale twat in an SUV with the most precious cargo in the world aboard.

The only issue I really have with the CCC cycle ways is the ones inside the four aves. Particularly St Asaph which is a clusterfuck. They have also fucked Antigua Street which used to dump me out by the boatshed then across the bridge then along the front of the park.

aaaaanyway: I am getting a tax refund and I am pretty serious about applying some of it to the 750 and some of it to an ebike conversion.

edit: I am doing that thing again: Oh - a 36V 250W with a small battery should be enough for commuting. Oh wait?! I can get a 48V 1000W one with a 612w/h battery that will do 70kph? Where do I sign!??!?!

[OddDuck]

+1 to HDC's post concerning the born-again lycra brigade... there's one roadie peleton I've seen around in Wellington who are truly a pack of arrogant riders. Two abreast on Wellie's narrow roads, holding cars up for ages, totally unrepentant when abused while the driver finally gets past. Not pleasant to watch. They're fit, but otherwise match the stereotype - white, monied, competitive as hell, etc etc.

About ten years back, Stuff published a map showing the location of all the fatal / high consequence traffic accidents. A mate and I went through it and it put him off commuting to work on a pushie. Around half the accidents were car vs bike at suburban intersections.

This is all non E assist of course... I'd imagine that E bikes simply magnify everything (range, speed, hours riding, usage) and therefore also magnify any risks that the rider might be taking. Caveat: no direct experience yet - but am getting more and more interested in having a go...

[Voltaire]

Mate of mine in Welly, long time road/adventure MTB rider T Boned a car coming out of a car park on his E bike at what he said was 30KMPH.

He dented the side of the car and cracked the screen as he went over bonnet, car driver was mortified.

He said the reason was the cycle lane goes both ways and car driver was looking in the direction traffic was coming from.

Bike was however only slightly damaged.

Treddle carefully out there.

[oldrider]

My sister (75) bought an E-bike - (thought it might help her keep up with her group on some of the bigger hills) - saw the chance of passing all the men on a downhill stretch!

No sweat - unfortunately she canned out through the hedge on the corner at the bottom of the hill - Oh shit moment :shit: supreme! :facepalm:

Almost back riding now as the many broken bones (pelvis etc) and grazes are healing well. :doctor:

When I enquired how she was - she said it felt good passing the bastards! :first: - no further comments, she doesn't want to talk about it. :whistle:

[awayatc]

Get the facts in right perspective....

18 million people in a country the size of canterbury. ..
Everybody goes on their bike....for transport.
City's are to congested for cars and parking impossible.
75% of bike fatalities are 65 year old or over...
25% are on e bikes.....

Roads to busy for old people on bikes....
They are not used to this much traffic.
That's what's killing them.

Am biking and driving around there right now myself......

[husaberg]

Get the facts in right perspective....

18 million people in a country the size of canterbury. ..
Everybody goes on their bike....for transport.
City's are to congested for cars and parking impossible.
75% of bike fatalities are 65 year old or over...
25% are on e bikes.....

Roads to busy for old people on bikes....
They are not used to this much traffic.
That's what's killing them.

Am biking and driving around there right now myself......

Not only that , Its likely the only country in the world where they actually have more pushbikes than people.

[ellipsis]

...Christchurch was once known as the City of Cycles and a huge amount of those bikes had the 2 half g carriers securely bolted up on the frame, and just about everyone had their cycle clips around their pants cuff...as many Triumph, Rudge and BSA pushies as their were Raleigh's on the road then...I had a possum skin seat and electrical conduit bashed down the handlebars so I could be like Ronnie Moore, Barry Briggs and Ole Olsson, (and Mauger), with huge wide speedway bars...fuck all cars around then...

[Grumph]

Did you ever do the cycle speedway ? Bunch of kids close to us did it - and practised at a local park. Several of them had big brothers who actually rode at Aranui. I practised with the kids - but the old man had fallen out with the Aranui promoter by then and I wasn't allowed to go....