Greedy bastards!

[Pound]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/103583012/petrol-giant-z-energy-defends-industry-competition-as-it-announces-a-263m-profit

Somebody hurry up and develop hydrogen fuel cells for production bike/car use!

[Jeff Sichoe]

Shareholder
New Zealand Superannuation Fund Nominees Limited

Percent Owned
10.40%

So the profit is gonna go a long way to pay for your retirement, bucko!

[Mike.Gayner]

To be fair, we don't need hydrogen fuel cells or electric motors in our bikes to resolve this problem. Electric cars will be ubiquitous in the next few years, slowly but surely taking demand away from petrol which will eventually bring the price down.

[Voltaire]

Probably from selling coffee, more profit per litre.

[jellywrestler]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/103583012/petrol-giant-z-energy-defends-industry-competition-as-it-announces-a-263m-profit

Somebody hurry up and develop hydrogen fuel cells for production bike/car use!

sounds like a lot of coin, but what is it in terms of percentage of assets etc?

[YellowDog]

Have a Nissan Leaf, on it's way to me :yes:

Most of my neighbours have out door power points :yes:

[sidecar bob]

To be fair, we don't need hydrogen fuel cells or electric motors in our bikes to resolve this problem. Electric cars will be ubiquitous in the next few years, slowly but surely taking demand away from petrol which will eventually bring the price down.

One of the many reasons why I got out of the automotive repair industry.
Every car maker currently makes at least one electric car, my guess is that in ten years every car maker will be making one combustion engine vehicle.

[Voltaire]

I'm still waiting for my hover car.....

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qPCPw2OxL._SX371_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

and robot to do my work.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/73/77/10/7377104a15e6f6813bcb5ccb9eaf4df3.jpg

[pete376403]

On the bones of their arse compared to banks

[EJK]

Must be those damned tourists/ overseas buyers!!

[HenryDorsetCase]

One of the many reasons why I got out of the automotive repair industry.
Every car maker currently makes at least one electric car, my guess is that in ten years every car maker will be making one combustion engine vehicle.

We have just been talking about that at work and most people are saying "i think my next car will be electric". I've come to the conclusion that we could totally have an electric car for 95% of our driving and probably 80% of our mileage.

couple that "going electric" with the coming ubiquity of self driving cars and the entire automotive industry will change. If you can just hit a button on your phone, and a car comes, takes you where you wanna go, then it fucks off when it drops you, it literally will not matter if that car is a toyota, a daewoo or a Dacia Sandero. No one will care.

Think about how difficult it will be to be a motorcyclist (or the guy driving the 32 Ford highboy roadster) when all about you is self driving. Having said that, probably the way forward is the equivalent of "power gives way to sail" - its up to the autonomous vehicle to get the fuck out of the way of the human piloted vehicle. Or they just have roads that are UAV only, and eventually we won't be able to ride anywhere.

Also I would really like a 32 Ford highboy roadster.... with a flathead of course.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I'm still waiting for my hover car.....

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qPCPw2OxL._SX371_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


Why does Hitler need a hover car?

[george formby]

Pretty sure I just read the first quarter profits from one of our (the) banks. About the same as the Shell figure...

As for vehicles I'm on the slippery slope. Bought a diesel weekend before last and checked my average fuel consumption when I got home today. 5.1ltr / 100km.

That's better than any of my bikes.

Once leccy cars improve their range and charging I will be looking at them. Be a few years, though.

[ellipsis]

...Trains and a horse or wheelbarrow to get to the station...peace and love...:hug: ...pushbikes work if you have legs...no more cows, or bullshit...save the whales...be nice to old people...go for lots of rides before it all happens...

[Grumph]

...Trains and a horse or wheelbarrow to get to the station...peace and love...:hug: ...pushbikes work if you have legs...no more cows, or bullshit...save the whales...be nice to old people...go for lots of rides before it all happens...

And when your grandchildren see a pic of grandad on a motorbike, they ask ...."what were those used for ?"

And grandad, glass in hand, mumbles past his false teeth...."for having fun and picking up chicks...."

And gets slapped down by his daughter for telling lies to the kids.....

[Graystone]

You muppets. 263 Million profit is nothing for a company that size, it's like a 5 or 6 percent margin.

[eldog]

Why does Hitler need a hover car?

Because the rest of us can read:rolleyes:

however the same problems existed back then too - housebreakers

[Woodman]

You muppets. 263 Million profit is nothing for a company that size, it's like a 5 or 6 percent margin.

Exactly, and how many of the complainers work for less than a 5 or 6 percent profit like they expect Z energy too?

[eldog]

Well I do

way less

often double in reverse.

but that’s life.

i am not complaining except about the way customers treat the people who are actually making ‘their’ products under their crap supply and design systems.:brick:

i should have gone for a ride today, but was unable to do so.
so going to get a drink, it’s not the same, but better than nothing or birthing on in K B

[Murray]

You muppets. 263 Million profit is nothing for a company that size, it's like a 5 or 6 percent margin.

So does that mean a 5 or 6% wage increase for staff?

[cc rider]

Why does Hitler need a hover car?

and robot to do my work.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/73/77/10/7377104a15e6f6813bcb5ccb9eaf4df3.jpg

For the same reason pilots need electronic stimulator :buggerd::blip:

[Woodman]

So does that mean a 5 or 6% wage increase for staff?

That makes no sense.

[Voltaire]

That makes no sense.

From my experience you might get a CPI increase annually.
If you want more money you change companies an/or up skill.
The salary/wage you agree to on day one is not going to increase otherwise.

I can't see why people complain about petrol prices yet pay $5 for cup of warm brown liquid.

[Viking01]

Electric cars can break down too so if you had stayed in the industry you would still have work but aspects of it would just be different. Replacing batteries for example will be unlikely be able to be done by owners.

Given the likelihood of increase in EV adoption, I think his statement related to
"how MUCH work will be available for repairers going forward ?".

Perhaps he was referring to the fact that:

1. Given that EV's (will) have considerably fewer moving parts than a traditional
combustion powered vehicle ;
2. those parts that do remain will be better engineered and likely be more robust
(reducing the frequency of - and increasing mean time between - repairs) ;
3. manufacturers will choose to move more towards standardisation, with re-use
of components under the body shell across models

there is unlikely to be a need (demand) for a large "repair" industry countrywide.

[Jeff Sichoe]

also EV batteries are way more dangerous than an inert combustion engine. you can't just poke a screw driver around and hope for the best or bzzzzzzat say goodbye to your arm

[HenryDorsetCase]

i had the tv on waiting for the weather (and Kanoa Lloyd after) and a story came on featuring the launch of this boat:

https://electricboats.biz/news/


really interesting I thought. NZ designed and developed. Batteries are by Tesla and I think the motor as well. will run for 9 hours fully charged apparently.

Its just not something I had ever thought about but it does seem to make sense. In fact it might be that UAV and electric tech goes mainstream in freight and at sea not in passenger vehicles.

[Voltaire]

Have a look at a few reliability reviews of Tesla's on the internet if you dont believe EVs can break down. They require battery replacement that is not as simple as replacing a 12v battery bought at Supercheap. Dont let my opinion put you off though.

I bet your <s>Grandfather</s> Father said the same thing about cars when he was riding his horse back from <s>riding school</s> the Pub.:innocent:

[pritch]

I may be a bit slow, I just don't get the rush to electric cars. As numbers increase the country will have to produce additional electricity to charge the cars. There's sod all rivers left to dam so what's the plan? And there does need to be a plan. Wind farms everywhere? Solar panels on all houses? Nuclear power? The additional electricity has to come from somewhere.

Then there's the batteries which I understand are made of very ecologically unfriendly materials, and China doesn't want everybody else's rubbish any more. So where're all those dead batteries going?

On second thoughts I shouldn't worry, it'll be your problem not mine.

[Viking01]

Have a look at a few reliability reviews of Tesla's on the internet if you dont believe EVs can break down. They require battery replacement that is not as simple as replacing a 12v battery bought at Supercheap. Dont let my opinion put you off though.


Yes, I'm well aware of [some of] the troubles that Tesla (an early entrant to the
EV market) is currently experiencing. And that they have had both general build
quality issues, as well as battery related issues. It will be interesting to see if
Tesla avoids bankruptcy.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-01/tesla-day-reckoning-near


But - just because Tesla is experiencing plenty of recalls does not invalidate
the basic thrust of my argument. [ Fewer moving parts; simpler construction;
easier and quicker maintenance when required etc ]

It would be a mistake to make a judgement on the whole EV market based on
the Tesla experience. "One swallow does not make a summer", so I'm told.

Think that you should look a little wider at other manufacturers in the EV market.
Like Nissan. Who appear to be doing it relatively successfully, from what I've read.

Those manufacturers that build a robust EV offering will likely succeed; those that
don't will fall by the wayside.

I [purposely] did not comment on battery technology or wiring harnesses. Because
I recognise this is a specialised aspect of the overall EV product, and that battery
technology (charge capacity and reliability) is still rapidly developing.

The amount of money that certain companies (such as Toshiba) have recently been
investing in battery R&D indicates they can see a positive future for their products
within the EV market.

My own test drive in a Nissan Leaf was very encouraging, and the experience of
two people that I do know driving them (each for over 1.5 years) has been very
positive.

I have already been doing my own research on EV offerings and reliability studies.
So when it comes time to do a vehicle replacement, then an EV will be in the mix.

So, "No", your opinion will not be putting me off in the slightest.

[Paul in NZ]

Electric cars can break down too so if you had stayed in the industry you would still have work but aspects of it would just be different. Replacing batteries for example will be unlikely be able to be done by owners.

The disposal of those batteries will be a nightmare... It will be very hard to see anyone making a living doing that, much like used tyres right now..

[Viking01]

I may be a bit slow, I just don't get the rush to electric cars. As numbers increase the country will have to produce additional electricity to charge the cars. There's sod all rivers left to dam so what's the plan? And there does need to be a plan. Wind farms everywhere? Solar panels on all houses? Nuclear power? The additional electricity has to come from somewhere.

Then there's the batteries which I understand are made of very ecologically unfriendly materials, and China doesn't want everybody else's rubbish any more. So where're all those dead batteries going?

On second thoughts I shouldn't worry, it'll be your problem not mine.


Offered in part answer as to why interest in EV's is increasing:

https://www.juancole.com/2018/03/electric-gasoline-dinosaurs.html

For overseas countries with large populations, a reduction in pollution plus a
reduction in fossil fuels (climate change and geo-strategic issues) certainly
are primary drivers. Think Asia (China).

As to provision of power, look at increased deployment of wind and solar
power to meet energy needs. Coupled with deployment of a country-wide
charging network for EV's.

Countries like Denmark have already been busy since 2010 with deployment
of a country-wide charging network for EV's , coupled with subsidies to
drive adoption of EV's. Plus it is one of the highest generators of electricity
via wind turbines in Europe. So it can be achieved.

Solar panels on houses (just based on my own research and getting cost
estimates for a solar panel retro-fit) are still "not attractive enough" (in
terms of financial payback time and cost savings). And figures are worse
when you factor in the cost of battery storage. But this situation is sure
to improve in the not-too-distant future.

Maybe if our Government saw it as a desirable outcome (e.g. solar retrofit
subsidies / increased credits for supply of excess power back to the grid),
then perhaps multiple goals could be achieved (e.g. reduced need for power
generation and reticulation infrastructure; warmer and drier houses; reduced
dependence on fossil fuels).

[HenryDorsetCase]

I may be a bit slow, I just don't get the rush to electric cars. As numbers increase the country will have to produce additional electricity to charge the cars. There's sod all rivers left to dam so what's the plan? And there does need to be a plan. Wind farms everywhere? Solar panels on all houses? Nuclear power? The additional electricity has to come from somewhere.

Then there's the batteries which I understand are made of very ecologically unfriendly materials, and China doesn't want everybody else's rubbish any more. So where're all those dead batteries going?

On second thoughts I shouldn't worry, it'll be your problem not mine.

The solution in the medium term is simple: stop corporate welfare by cutting the subsidy to Tiwai Point. That releases about 10% of the national generation capacity.
'
the lithium in paarticular in a lithium ion battery is quite toxic. The issue is: is it more or less bad than the the CO2 and CO and other noxious things produced by combustion engines.... as another poster pointed out, NZ is very fortunate that 90% of its electric energy needs can be met with renewable (hydro mainly) so we dont have the shifting of burning fossil fuels from lots of cars to one large power plant issue. But the rest of the world do need to deal with aht.

a fascinating statistic i read somewhere is that China has bet big on solar. Like thousands of MW/h big. whcih you can do in a command economy.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yes, I'm well aware of [some of] the troubles that Tesla (an early entrant to the
EV market) is currently experiencing. And that they have had both general build
quality issues, as well as battery related issues. It will be interesting to see if
Tesla avoids bankruptcy.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-01/tesla-day-reckoning-near


. "One swallow does not make a summer", so I'm told.
.

she's is a spitter, not a swallower, I heard.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Did you do any research on the cost of a new battery? Thats another issue and if you don't have to replace your battery during your term of ownership whoever buys it next will take that into account with any offer they make. Unless you are just using your car for commuting waiting in line at remote charge stations will be an issue you will have to contend with too. Good Luck.

with the tech where its at now, EV's in a passenger car context make the most sense as a commuter car. As I said earlier in my case probably 95% of my driving and 80% of my mileage could easily be handled by an electric car.

and with petrol at 2.17.9 a litre it makes mre sense every day.

Also : 32 Ford Highboy Roadster.

[Voltaire]

The disposal of those batteries will be a nightmare... It will be very hard to see anyone making a living doing that, much like used tyres right now..

About 30 years ago I needed a new set of tyres for my BMW R75/5 in Vienna, cost about the equivalent of 3 pounds per tyre recycling fee, but as they say there " it meant nothing to me.....":innocent:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zRkIbUi01k

Fast forward to now and...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/papakura-courier/5053140/Money-for-old-tyres

[Graystone]

also EV batteries are way more dangerous than an inert combustion engine. you can't just poke a screw driver around and hope for the best or bzzzzzzat say goodbye to your arm

But you can use a lighter to look into dark gloomy depths without exploding.

Horses for courses really, but I've certainly seen more one armed people smile than I have exploded people...

[Viking01]

Did you do any research on the cost of a new battery? Thats another issue and if you don't have to replace your battery during your term of ownership whoever buys it next will take that into account with any offer they make. Unless you are just using your car for commuting waiting in line at remote charge stations will be an issue you will have to contend with too. Good Luck.


Sometimes I despair a little ..... maybe we can answer a few questions in one hit !

1. Suitability

I would not be considering an EV (replacing our existing car within say two years)
if I had not already looked at their ability to meet our likely driving needs. e.g.
frequency of use ; distance typically travelled per run.

And I wouldn't still be considering an EV without having done a spreadsheet or two
to capture likely costs or charges (e.g. purchase cost; power charge; maintenance;
depreciation).

Do I expect it to be a few years before charging stations become widely distributed
across our main highways ? And for there to be a few places that might be "out of
our reach" (on a single charge) ? ==> Yes.

Do I expect battery technology to improve in the near future, allowing a much longer
distance to be travelled between charges ? ==> Yes

Do I expect EV battery charging times to shorten appreciably in the near future ? Due
both to EV batteries and roadside charging technology itself ? ==> Yes

2. Batteries

I gave the Nissan Leaf as an example. So, before you go and do another web search
and then tell me about battery issues that Nissan Leafs might be experiencing, don't
bother.

https://www.noted.co.nz/money/technology/is-the-battery-of-the-popular-nissan-leaf-degrading-too-early/
https://electrek.co/2018/03/26/nissan-leaf-battery-pack-replacement-program/

So, Yes, I have done some research into the possible need for a new battery, as
well as having gathered some indicative NZ prices (for that EV make and model).

But even if I did have to replace a battery, the likely lower capital cost of buying
an EV in the first place will still probably make it attractive. Especially if you import
it yourself.

The two people I mentioned driving them bought low mileage models ex Japan for
just over NZ$4,500 landed. And while one has just on-sold his car, he replaced
it with a newer model that had more bells and whistles. He lost approx $200 on
the sale of his old Leaf.

3. Possible Loss of value on Sale

Good luck with trying to develop some rule to calculate how much the value of the
vehicle should be reduced, solely because of the age of the battery. And arguing
that with the seller.

[sidecar bob]

Did you do any research on the cost of a new battery? Thats another issue and if you don't have to replace your battery during your term of ownership whoever buys it next will take that into account with any offer they make. Unless you are just using your car for commuting waiting in line at remote charge stations will be an issue you will have to contend with too. Good Luck.

Did you do any research into the cost of replacing an engine or auto transmission in a new combustion engine car?

[Woodman]

Did you do any research into the cost of replacing an engine or auto transmission in a new combustion engine car?

Did he do any research in the frequency and margins on parts and labour in regularly servicing a normal IC engine? I doubt it, he is a moron after all. EV is a game changer for the vehicle service industry and will be an interesting ride for the next 10-15 years or so.

[F5 Dave]

And when your grandchildren see a pic of grandad on a motorbike, they ask ...."what were those used for ?"

And grandad, glass in hand, mumbles past his false teeth...."for having fun and picking up chicks...."

And gets slapped down by his daughter for telling lies to the kids.....
But they were lies. The having fun, yeah sure. But never had any fairer sex attention as a result.

[caseye]

Did he do any research in the frequency and margins on parts and labour in regularly servicing a normal IC engine? I doubt it, he is a moron after all. EV is a game changer for the vehicle service industry and will be an interesting ride for the next 10-15 years or so.

He!. She is a fuckwit. Lecky vehicles are coming like it or not, thing is, there are far too many Greedy Barstards selling them here right now.
A year or 2 and it'll sort itself out.

[Voltaire]

Did you do any research into the cost of replacing an engine or auto transmission in a new combustion engine car?


http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/y0!.gifhttp://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/y0!.gif

I read a US article that said when the 16K electric power train meets the price of the 6K petrol one game on (over).

[george formby]

http://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/y0!.gifhttp://advrider.com/styles/advrider_smilies/y0!.gif

I read a US article that said when the 16K electric power train meets the price of the 6K petrol one game on (over).

Yup. The combustion engine bench mark looks very vulnerable. Amazing times ahead.

[MD]

Back to the greedy bastards. Caltex, BP and Z are all 219.9c for 91 in Kapiti (07/05/18). Funny how they price independently but all reach the exact fraction of a cent? Almost worth the 40 minute drive to Levin for 191.9c (well that's what I paid there 2 weeks ago).

[rastuscat]

While its not possible for everyone I just buy on the 10c off a litre days which one station will have one each week. I take along a 20L container to fill the bike from at the same time.

Sage advice.

[MarkH]

Have a Nissan Leaf, on it's way to me :yes:


My daily commute is done in my Leaf, I only need to buy petrol on the weekends for the motorbike. I used to use a Honda ST1300 for commuting, the Leaf is warmer and dryer and a LOT cheaper to run. I've calculated that I'll save ~$8k in the first 3 years. I sold the bike for $7k and bought the Leaf for $21k, leaving me down by $14k, after 3 years having saved $8k I'll only be down $6k, a further 3 years should have the entire difference in vehicle prices repaid. So far the battery is holding up nicely, should handle my 70km commute for more than 6 more years.

As a motorcyclist I love my Leaf, I can take the money I save on my daily commute and spend it on the bike!

[Viking01]

A short video clip on the Driven website:

http://www.driven.co.nz/video/driven-news/watch-tesla-stumble-as-ev-competition-heats-up-driven-news/?ref=nzhhome

[Hubris]

Back to the greedy bastards. Caltex, BP and Z are all 219.9c for 91 in Kapiti (07/05/18). Funny how they price independently but all reach the exact fraction of a cent? Almost worth the 40 minute drive to Levin for 191.9c (well that's what I paid there 2 weeks ago).

I'm pretty sure this is explained by the leaked BP email stating they were going to raise prices and simply hope the competitors followed suit. There are few enough players in NZ (Gull is really the only disrupter) that they don't compete with each other.