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Big Dave
13th October 2005, 11:20
who prefers the way things are run on this side of the dutch.
Near the top of todays Sydney Morning Herald

>>>

Forget the Joneses, keep up with the Kiwis
October 13, 2005

Our trans-Tasman neighbours may be the butt of many fush jokes, but they have plenty over us, writes Paola Totaro.

The drive from Auckland airport to the CBD is a long one - about $62 worth - but the Indian taxi driver's guileless observations about trans-Tasman differences sew a seed: "In Australia, passengers see you are foreign and demand to know if you know your way. In New Zealand, they ask you if you're OK, how you are settling. They wait to hear the answer. Do you know what I mean?"

First impressions, especially cultural ones, are often gut-driven, gleaned via the heart rather than the intellect. They are shaped by circumstance and refined by further visits, reading, longer immersion. But intuition is a deeply undervalued human trait, one that science acknowledges but has yet to fully explain. And so, with intuition alone as a guide, here are seven reasons why New Zealand has it all over us.

1. There are real women on TV in New Zealand, ones with grey hair, wrinkles and imperfect upper arms. They ask questions of politicians with unabashed irreverence, refuse to accept obfuscating answers and allow their faces to reveal every emotion - from utter disdain to disbelieving exasperation. The obsession with beauty and youth - and deadpan, emotionless Q and As - plays second fiddle to experience and a gutsy honesty.

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Kiwis exude a confident, intelligent feminism that spreads across all generations and sectors - forget the women priests debate, NZ already has an Anglican woman bishop. (Oh, and apart from the Prime Minister, the Governor-General, Chief Justice and Speaker of the House are all women, too.)

2.Kiwi politicians have yet to succumb to the culture of spin. Helen Clark and her Nationals nemesis, Don Brash, deigned to debate each other and went head-to-head on TV several times. Both hit the streets to meet and greet - not just once a day for the TV cameras - and campaigned in halls, pubs, clubs and often hostile university campuses.

Their campaign itineraries were made available in advance - an unknown in Australia where we are told that "security" considerations preclude knowing where our taxpayer-funded elected representatives are going to be. "Staying on message" - the mantra of the spin-meisters to this nation's politicians - has yet to homogenise the political discourse in NZ, allowing politicians room to answer questions in a way that doesn't bore us all rigid - and even reveals a little of their characters, occasionally even a hint of genuine warmth or humour.

3. NZ police are not armed and the nation's crime rate is at its lowest since 1982. Law and order and national security play a significant part in the nation's public consciousness but it has yet to be exploited ruthlessly by politicians in the way federal and state politicians have done at home.

Helen Clark disbanded the nation's air wing (a realistic assessment if ever there was one). Even Winston Peters's revelation that a former Iraqi minister associated with Saddam Hussein had arrived in NZ on a visitor's visa was handled without too much strident rhetoric; it simply prompted the necessary reform of immigration policy and frontline character assessment criteria.

(That said, NZ also has a very high imprisonment rate - 157 per 100,000 compared to Australia's 116 per 100,000. More than three-fifths of the world's nations have rates below 150 per 100,000.)

4. The politics of race and separatism - in language, funding, in parliamentary seats - is spoken about as just that. There is no euphemism, no pussyfooting around. The debate is sophisticated, upfront, and Maori are omnipresent: visible, powerful, intellectually combative and yet profoundly civil in their rhetoric.

The newly formed Maori Party took on Clark's Labour after a massive falling out over foreshores legislation. Dr Pita Sharples, the veteran Maori leader and pioneer of Maori language schools, challenged Labour's young gun, John Tamihere, and won his seat.

Despite the big stakes and violent political disagreement, both men expressed a dignified respect for one another as human beings in public that is unheard of here.

5. Similarly, the health debate is relatively untrammelled by social or political taboo: the rationing of resources is discussed openly (should smokers be offered intensive care beds, should taxpayers fund fertility treatments?). Universal health care is untouchable; however, there is growing talk about what it is that people can reasonably expect from a public health system and where lines may have to be drawn.

"I've had people tell me angrily they won't pay for their pills. I say, 'Don't take them, then. If you don't think you are worth a dollar a day, I certainly don't'," said Wayne Brown, Auckland's District Health Board chairman, in a pre-election article.

(A bureaucrat allowed to speak out at all; there's another big difference.)

6. Clark's personal sense of identity is so strong and blissfully unaffected by vanity that it seems to have rubbed off on her countrymen and women. Who else could have sent one of the world's first trans-gender MPs and a former sex worker - Georgina (originally George) Beyer - to meet the Queen at the airport? It takes a confident nation to make a small decision like that - and big decisions like kissing goodbye the possibility of a free trade deal with the US to retain an unstintingly pacifist stance on the world stage.

"The bottom line is that this Government doesn't trade the lives of young New Zealanders for a war it doesn't believe in, in order to secure some material advantage," said Clark more than two years ago.

7. The New Zealand PM sticks to her word. See point 6.

Sniper
13th October 2005, 11:36
Really interesting........

Biff
13th October 2005, 12:03
Yup very interesting. I especially appreciate the comments re' race relations. In many countries of the world the PC brigade have declared it taboo to talk about, and even to acknowledge, the differences in a peoples race. IMO this then drives discussions, and a growing resentment underground. I love the way Kiwis openly discuss race related issues, pragmatically and honestly. I believe this helps relieve any tensions as it allows people freely communicate with one another in order to address any perceived issues head on, without fear of being classed as a racist.

I love NZ

MrMelon
13th October 2005, 12:08
Suck it down Australia!

avgas
13th October 2005, 12:10
Interesting indeed. While all points were valid, a few were faceless in what they meant.
Yes we do imprson lots.....but they get half the time they deserve, then they go out and re-offend.
I wont go into detail on the others, as some people may be offended

SixPackBack
13th October 2005, 12:16
I lived in Australia for 6 years.....what a fantastic place, what great people. The only reason i came back was for family, but i would happily live there again and still have many good friends over the ditch.
The only downside to living in oz i found was that i now fire up when ever i hear Aussie bashing.......fucken leave the Aussies alone N>Z they are the salt of the earth and our closest friends. :2thumbsup

Lou Girardin
13th October 2005, 13:11
Well that made me feel warm all over.
Shame that most of it is merely one unattributed opinion.
If NZ was so much better than Oz, why aren't all the Kiwis coming back?

jrandom
13th October 2005, 13:35
If NZ was so much better than Oz, why aren't all the Kiwis coming back?

as you well know, you crusty old troll, its because for one reason and another there are a number of profesions that pay better over the ditch, and them that are still over there obviously havent yet overcome their immature venality, so good ridance says I.

love the original article. so true.

oz has gotten worse in the last decade or two as it has degenerated into the fifty first state of the union.

this here country really aint too bad. think I might stay put.

anyways, have you ever met an ocker who wasnt at least slightly insane? that probably has a lot to do with it.

Big Dave
13th October 2005, 14:13
anyways, have you ever met an ocker who wasnt at least slightly insane? that probably has a lot to do with it.

I'm not insane - just 'special'.

Big Dave
13th October 2005, 14:19
[QUOTE=Lou Girardin]
>>>Shame that most of it is merely one unattributed opinion.

What am I - a ham sandwich?


>> If NZ was so much better than Oz, why aren't all the Kiwis coming

Simple climate, money and the opportunity that a larger population base offers. If lil johnny sticks his nose any further up dubyahs crack you might see plenty of reverse trans tasman traffic. I'm stayin put. Probably not forever, my knees hanker for the Gold Coast climate already.

We'll talk about it on open day saturday - i'll be helping out with the triumph and rat stuff.

Lou Girardin
13th October 2005, 15:47
[QUOTE=Lou Girardin]
>>>Shame that most of it is merely one unattributed opinion.

What am I - a ham sandwich?
.

That was your article?
You'll lose Oz citizenship at that rate.

James Deuce
13th October 2005, 16:21
.....fucken leave the Aussies alone N>Z they are the salt of the earth and our closest friends. :2thumbsup

No they're not and their culture is vastly different to ours, with vastly different underpinnings. Stop expecting the rewards of the "ANZAC brotherhood". The "A" in ANZAC turned their back on cooperative economic and international political development a long time ago, and "A" certainly does not argue on our behalf in International trade and diplomatic disputes.

Big Dave
13th October 2005, 16:59
No they're not and their culture is vastly different to ours, with vastly different underpinnings. Stop expecting the rewards of the "ANZAC brotherhood". The "A" in ANZAC turned their back on cooperative economic and international political development a long time ago, and "A" certainly does not argue on our behalf in International trade and diplomatic disputes.

Apart from 'politics' living here or there is virtually identical. except for 2 vowels and the code of football - west auckland could be west sydney or north melbourne and remmers could be upper double bay. same shops, same problems, same racial mix.

On matters ANZAC - well, most of us also know who we would choose to share a trench with if push comes to shove - and it ain't dubbyah.

SixPackBack
13th October 2005, 18:10
No they're not and their culture is vastly different to ours, with vastly different underpinnings. Stop expecting the rewards of the "ANZAC brotherhood". The "A" in ANZAC turned their back on cooperative economic and international political development a long time ago, and "A" certainly does not argue on our behalf in International trade and diplomatic disputes.

The people on the street are so close to being identical it is scary, and when did politicians on either side of the ditch truly represent the people. They are close blood relatives......accept it and get over it

James Deuce
13th October 2005, 18:46
The people on the street are so close to being identical it is scary, and when did politicians on either side of the ditch truly represent the people. They are close blood relatives......accept it and get over it

I don't have an issue with that at all. I think you need to think about building the bridge. Out with anger and in with love.

I have a large number of relatives living in Aus myself.

However, Australia's international political stance actively disadvantages NZ and has done since WWII. I don't see why I would have to be enamoured of Australia merely because of a superficial similarity in "pakeha" culture.

El Dopa
13th October 2005, 18:50
oz has gotten worse in the last decade or two as it has degenerated into the fifty first state of the union.



Just a slight correction. Airstrip One has first dibs on being the 51st State. Oz'll have to be content with 52nd.

heavenly.talker
13th October 2005, 19:02
I don't see why I would have to be enamoured of Australia merely because of a superficial similarity in "pakeha" culture.


I was interested in this statement as I don't think Australia only embraces the pakeha quotient of New Zealand.

If you remember back to the 2000 olympics opening ceremony...there was a very powerful maori focus too :-)

Aussie welcomes all kiwis including our immigrants to their shores...why?

because kiwis (of all origins) have a reputation for hard work.

I think of them as a kissing cousin...we don't always get on but like to get together enough to hook up occasionally or stand together with blood ties in times of trouble. We assume that we have the same kind of values (wrongly or rightly) and because of this are often found grouped together on overseas experiences. If you are kiwi and there are a group of aussies its close enough and vise versa!

Personally I don't hold with the supporting two teams theory...All Blacks and anyone playing Australia. If New Zealand is not competing I will always cheers for the gold and green.

I would rather no other country for a neighbour.

Timber020
13th October 2005, 20:01
I worked and lived in Aus for a while, the racism got to me, parts of it reminded me so much of alabama and lousiana I was ready to order grits, biscuits and gravy for breakfast.
They often treated foreigners badly, as a kiwi its wasnt so bad but others I met and worked with had it hard. The arogance and ignorance was tough to deal with. I lost count the number of times I heard "Im not racist or anything but I hate (insert racial group here)."
I met some bloody good aussies, but its the ones that screwed you over that you remember.

Pixie
13th October 2005, 20:34
[QUOTE=Lou Girardin]
>>>Shame that most of it is merely one unattributed opinion.

What am I - a ham sandwich?


.
What??? With your sir name??

Big Dave
13th October 2005, 20:51
[QUOTE=Big Dave]
What??? With your sir name??

Well seing we're painting with the broad brush, In the SANZAR of irony, yer African usually just don't get it, yer garden variety Kiwi will spot it given long enough, and the Aussie will dine out on it.

Pixies obviously have a better grasp of the concept than alanis morissette.