Legally pulling up on spot ahead of cycle marking at junctions

[cheshirecat]

So whats the legality of this MC parked ahead of the lycra spot at the junction as seen in the distance. Newtown Welly
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[Katman]

So whats the legality of this MC parked ahead of the lycra spot at the junction as seen in the distance. Newtown Welly
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It would appear that, since their feet are already on the pegs, they're already moving.

[cheshirecat]

Yep but I was told by a community cycle lane group, Get ride of Island Bay Cycle Lane, we could and it unenforceable

[Moi]

Yep but I was told by a community cycle lane group, Get ride of Island Bay Cycle Lane, we could and it unenforceable

OK, let's ignore the fact that the bike is probably moving off from the lights.

Let's say the bike is stopped where it is shown in the photo - first, the bike is stopped on the pedestrian crossing which is a sure way to be liked by pedestrians. Plus there's something in the road code about not stopping on ped crossings (http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/stopping-at-intersections-etc/).

Also, has the bike legally entered the intersection against a red light as they have gone beyond the limit line beside the traffic light?

[pritch]

Many years ago probably not far from where that pic was taken, I saw a car stopped on a pedestrian crossing. The buzzer went for the peds and three, probably students, walked up and over the bonnet of the car wiithout breaking stride. I thought, "He won't do that again".

In case anybody feels that is diverting attention from the point, I'd say in my defence that I'm buggad if I know what the point of the thread is. There appears to be a picture of a motorcycle riding past a pedestrian crossing?

[BMWST?]

not sure there is any actual law where you stop.Even a compulsory stop sign line is only a guide.But yeah stopping on a ped crossing will likely invite some attentiion from the police

[FJRider]

Yep but I was told by a community cycle lane group, Get ride of Island Bay Cycle Lane, we could and it unenforceable

You can ride through it any time you like if the light is green for you. The area in question is for pedestrians to cross the street.

[FJRider]

not sure there is any actual law where you stop.Even a compulsory stop sign line is only a guide.But yeah stopping on a ped crossing will likely invite some attentiion from the police

No white stripes so not an an official pedestrian crossing. Pedestrian movement permission is controlled by the lights ... not an "As of right movement" with normal white striped pedestrian crossing rules.

[Berries]

Yep but I was told by a community cycle lane group, Get ride of Island Bay Cycle Lane, we could and it unenforceable
No you can't. As always, refer to the Road User Rule -

3.2 (5) While a steady red signal in the form of a disc is displayed or 2 alternately flashing red signals in the form of a disc are displayed,—
(a) a driver of a vehicle facing the signal or signals must not enter the controlled area, but a cyclist may enter ahead of a marked vehicle limit line and stop behind a marked cycle limit line:

While "controlled area" is not defined it would be safe to assume it is the area beyond the limit line, which is defined thus -

Limit line means a line marked on the surface of the roadway to indicate the place where traffic is required to stop for the purpose of complying with a stop sign, give-way sign, pedestrian crossing, school crossing point, or traffic signal.

Not sure what the precedent code would be for that but if enough people did it then pedestrians would rightly complain and then it would be enforced. The point of the advanced cycle boxes it to get cyclists to the front of the traffic. To then have traffic stopping in front of them defeats the whole purpose so then you would have them complaining as well.

Can see why a community anti cycle lane group would suggest it.

[FJRider]

OK, let's ignore the fact that the bike is probably moving off from the lights.



On what grounds could you ignore it ... ??? the cyclist is already moved off from their stopping point and two pedestrians have started crossing the roadway in the foreground.

A few lacking simple observational skills it seems ... :doh:

[Berries]

A few lacking simple observational skills it seems ...
I think we all picked that, it was hypothetical.

[Swoop]

So whats the legality of this MC parked ahead of the lycra spot at the junction as seen in the distance.

The important fact is that this photo is very valuable. It shows that psyclists' CAN come to a complete stop at a red light.;)

Since a pedestrian is headed across in front of them, presumably the light is red.
In the distance the light is presumably green and the motorcyclist is accelerating.

Motorcycles are allowed to use green painted roadways around city areas.

[AllanB]

I got bored and tuned out ....... as I age I find this special ability quite helpful in day to day life.

Like today travelling south on the main road at open road speed I tuned out to the fucktard in the fucktard approved 4WD who saw fit to sit about three metres behind. Dude I had cruise control set at 110.

[GazzaH]

Three metres? You were lucky. I used to dream of having 3 metres clearance.

[imac]

Motorcycles are allowed to use green painted roadways around city areas.

Have you got a reference for that? I was having that argument with a scooterist whilst dressed in lycra a few months ago.
Or is that a Wellington thing?

Cheers
Mac

[rambaldi]

Have you got a reference for that? I was having that argument with a scooterist whilst dressed in lycra a few months ago.
Or is that a Wellington thing?

Cheers
Mac

Around Auckland it depends on why the area is painted green. Some of the lanes are explicitly for bicycles only (around the end of Dominion Road is one) so going on the colour isn't enough.

[Swoop]

Have you got a reference for that?
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[Daffyd]

I would have thought that as the street in question merges with the one in the foreground that only one of the two would have a green light. Since traffic is stopped in the foreground it's obvious to me that the motorcyclist has just taken off under a green light.

[rastuscat]

Motorcycles are allowed to use green painted roadways around city areas.

The green painted areas at the head of traffic lanes are called Advanced Stop Boxes.

It's an offence to stop a motor vehicle in an advanced stop box. Not sure where I read that, but there was a blitz in Wellington when they first got painted. It was in the paper.

[Jeff Sichoe]

A quick google brought this up from last year;

https://fyi.org.nz/request/6911-advanced-stop-boxes-enforcement-and-promotion

Question;

What activities have you undertaken to enforce the appropriate use of advanced stop boxes in the Wellington Region. This includes activities undertaken jointly with the police, local territorial authorities or other agencies, individual enforcement actuaries. I would appreciate any statistics you capture about these activities, such as warnings for other vehicles using the advanced stop boxes.

What enforcement or communication activities are planned, or currently in planning?

Answer;

The previous Road Policing Manager for Wellington (Snr. Sgt. Richard Hocken now retired) looked into this matter and decided that the Advanced Stop Boxes could not be enforced.

The Stop box is not a cycle lane so legislation preventing vehicles from entering a cycle lane do not apply.

The limit line or beginning of the intersection it at the front of the ASB so legislation around entering an intersection does not apply.

So unless something has changed you can stop in the 'ASB' regardless of vehicle type (car, motorbike etc) which funnily enough I will now do.

[Daffyd]

The green painted areas at the head of traffic lanes are called Advanced Stop Boxes.

It's an offence to stop a motor vehicle in an advanced stop box. Not sure where I read that, but there was a blitz in Wellington when they first got painted. It was in the paper.

So, ok for pedallies. This is the way I interpreted it.

[Jeff Sichoe]

look one post up boss, unless you can find anything different the ASB's aren't cyclelanes, don't have their own regulations for use and the limit line is at the front of them

meaning you can use them while in or on any vehicle

happy to be proven wrong if there is evidence showing so however!

-edit- the article that perhaps Rastuscat was referring to;
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/63209837/drivers-face-fines-for-stopping-in-cyclist-zones

is from 2014.

The linked response from Hugh Wilson - Transport Choice Advisor - Wellington City Council - shows that any mention of enforcement has been removed from the WCC site;

https://wellington.govt.nz/services/parking-and-roads/cycling/cycling-safety/advanced-stop-boxes

and while it may APPEAR to threaten enforcement;

These zones are not for motorised vehicles such scooters, motorbikes, cars, vans or buses.

Hugh states

A such we have adjusted any collateral around ASBs so that they do not
mention enforcement and we just show how they are to be used.

so yeah

[rastuscat]

look one post up boss, unless you can find anything different the ASB's aren't cyclelanes, don't have their own regulations for use and the limit line is at the front of them

meaning you can use them while in or on any vehicle

happy to be proven wrong if there is evidence showing so however!

-edit- the article that perhaps Rastuscat was referring to;
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/63209837/drivers-face-fines-for-stopping-in-cyclist-zones

is from 2014.

The linked response from Hugh Wilson - Transport Choice Advisor - Wellington City Council - shows that any mention of enforcement has been removed from the WCC site;

https://wellington.govt.nz/services/parking-and-roads/cycling/cycling-safety/advanced-stop-boxes

and while it may APPEAR to threaten enforcement;


Hugh states


so yeah

Nice reply. I trawled through the legislation and couldn't find a reference to ASBs. Seems to come from the Good-Idea-But-Not-Law school of thought.

[Swoop]

The green painted areas at the head of traffic lanes are called Advanced Stop Boxes.

It's an offence to stop a motor vehicle in an advanced stop box. Not sure where I read that, but there was a blitz in Wellington when they first got painted. It was in the paper.

In Auckland it is permitted to have pushbikes and motorcycles in that area. They also advertise that bikes can proceed on the "B" green light.
Wellington: the place where weird shit gets invented & they have a circular mental home for NZ's worst offenders.

[rastuscat]

In Auckland it is permitted to have pushbikes and motorcycles in that area. They also advertise that bikes can proceed on the "B" green light.
Wellington: the place where weird shit gets invented & they have a circular mental home for NZ's worst offenders.

The B light is for buses. If you are legally using a bus lane, you can use the bus light. If you are in any other lane, you can't go on the B light.

Complex little topic, that one.

Road User Rule 2004

3.6 Traffic signals in form of T or B

(1) While a white T or a white B signal is displayed, a driver of a light rail vehicle (in the case of a white T) or a bus (in the case of a white B) facing the traffic signal may—
(a) travel straight ahead or turn right or turn left; or
(b)turn right or turn left even though a traffic signal is displaying a red signal in the form of a disc.

(2)While a yellow T or a yellow B signal alone is displayed, a driver of a light rail vehicle (in the case of a yellow T) or a bus (in the case of a yellow B) facing the traffic signal must not enter the controlled area.

(3)However, if the driver of the light rail vehicle (in the case of a yellow T) or bus (in the case of a yellow B) is so close to the limit line or intersection when the yellow T or yellow B signal first appears that the driver cannot safely stop the vehicle before passing the limit line or entering the intersection, the driver may proceed with the movement otherwise prohibited by subclause (2).

(4)While a red T or a red B signal alone is displayed, a driver of a light rail vehicle (in the case of red T) or a bus (in the case of red B) facing the traffic signal must not—
(a)proceed beyond any limit line associated with the traffic signal; or
(b)in the absence of a limit line, enter the intersection at or near which the traffic signal is installed.

(5)If any of the following persons are lawfully using a bus lane, this clause applies to the person in the same way that it applies to the driver of a bus:
(a)the rider of a cycle, moped, or motorcycle:
(b)the driver of an electric vehicle.

[Paulo]

In Auckland it is permitted to have pushbikes and motorcycles in that area. They also advertise that bikes can proceed on the "B" green light.
Wellington: the place where weird shit gets invented & they have a circular mental home for NZ's worst offenders.



LOL thats my missus on her van van on the way to work. Fwiw I also use those boxes in welliington and have even shared one with a cop on a motorcycle. If there are cyclists there I wont be a dick and push in and always give them preferential right of way, Having seen many motorcycle cops use them I did not know it was illegal. interesting.

[Hoonicorn]

I stopped behind the green boxes for a while, but after repeatedly seeing cyclists go through lights or use pedestrian crossings at intersections, I figured they aren't using them.

I remember reading that you could stop in ASB if the light is green while you wait for traffic on the other side of the interesection to move forward to go across the intersection but then the lights change to red.

[Swoop]

The B light is for buses. If you are legally using a bus lane, you can use the bus light. If you are in any other lane, you can't go on the B light.

Complex little topic, that one.
Yes, I have to agree it is and thought the same until a while ago.
It made no sense having a bike at the head of a bus lane, which was then unable to proceed and also held the bus up. There was definately something released in the Auckland area relating to this and was quite specific about using the bus lanes was "ok" and when the "B" illuminated it was perfectly ok to proceed on that signal.

[samgab]

In Auckland it is permitted to have pushbikes and motorcycles in that area. They also advertise that bikes can proceed on the "B" green light.

In Auckland, the way it often works for me, is if I have a red light ahead, I filter my way to the front of the queue carefully. When I get to the front, I find that the front car has usually stopped halfway over the top of the green ASB, so I move a little bit in front of that car, so I'm visible to them, which means I'm normally by then halfway over the front of the ASB too. If I'm riding and the light turns orange meaning I'm first to stop for the red, I'll stop just behind the ASB. I don't enter the ASB unless I have no safer option because of where cars at the front of the red light have stopped. If I filter to the front and front car is one of those drivers who stops a whole car length behind the line, I'll stop between them and the ASB.

I probably find a cyclist waiting in a green ASB about 1 in 1000 times. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've ever seen a cyclist waiting in one of those ASB's in the parts of Auckland I frequent.

[MarkH]

A quick google brought this up from last year;

https://fyi.org.nz/request/6911-advanced-stop-boxes-enforcement-and-promotion

Question;


Answer;


So unless something has changed you can stop in the 'ASB' regardless of vehicle type (car, motorbike etc) which funnily enough I will now do.

Best post I've read in a while on here! This is very handy info to know whenever riding in a city and lane-splitting at intersections.

[imac]

In Auckland, the way it often works for me, is if I have a red light ahead, I filter my way to the front of the queue carefully. When I get to the front, I find that the front car has usually stopped halfway over the top of the green ASB, so I move a little bit in front of that car, so I'm visible to them, which means I'm normally by then halfway over the front of the ASB too. If I'm riding and the light turns orange meaning I'm first to stop for the red, I'll stop just behind the ASB. I don't enter the ASB unless I have no safer option because of where cars at the front of the red light have stopped. If I filter to the front and front car is one of those drivers who stops a whole car length behind the line, I'll stop between them and the ASB.

I probably find a cyclist waiting in a green ASB about 1 in 1000 times. In fact, I can't think of a single time I've ever seen a cyclist waiting in one of those ASB's in the parts of Auckland I frequent.

Same here on bike and pedlie, if you do see lycrist in the ASB it might be me. Say hi !