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tribesman
7th February 2004, 17:28
To those of you who ride sports bikes and think you are the fastest thing since freddie spencer beware, I passed and overtook a GSXR750 today on my 1340 HD, sure I can already hear you all saying I have more cubes, but this was on a winding road so my bigger more powerful engine had no advntage. So next time you see a Fatboy HD dont laugh too much or it might just shut you down. And to those of you who ride Multi's the noise they emit is not only terrible but often over the decibal limit that the law requires! Just as well Im not a police motorbike rider or I would ticket the lot of you. :brick:

Motu
7th February 2004, 17:45
I clean up sports bikes and Harleys all the time on my dirt bikes,it's cool fun eh? They don't stand a chance when you're on a real bike!

dangerous
7th February 2004, 18:08
;)
To those of you who ride sports bikes and think you are the fastest thing since freddie spencer beware, I passed and overtook a GSXR750 today on my 1340 HD, sure I can already hear you all saying I have more cubes, but this was on a winding road so my bigger more powerful engine had no advntage. So next time you see a Fatboy HD dont laugh too much or it might just shut you down. And to those of you who ride Multi's the noise they emit is not only terrible but often over the decibal limit that the law requires! Just as well Im not a police motorbike rider or I would ticket the lot of you. :brick:

Get over your self man, I think that if the GSXR decided to take it above 2000rpm then he'd be at the pub and youd be another 1.5m up the road.
Hell I thought that I was ready for a cruser when I was in Oz but the 1450 super gulid couldent even get around the roundabout at the end of the street with out grinding its guts I hated it.
You may be able to get more power out of a hog but it still aint gona turn a corner.

Jackrat
7th February 2004, 18:11
Aye what,you must be smoking to much of that Murapara wacky weed fell'a.
But hey serious this time. :not: :niceone: :laugh:

bondagebunny
7th February 2004, 19:43
HD rider -passed a broken down Japper and didnt offer to help :puke:

bluninja
7th February 2004, 19:49
Just as well Im not a police motorbike rider or I would ticket the lot of you. :brick:
But then you'd have to ride on one of those slwo pathetic sounding rice burners:whistle: Well I for one am glad that your dislike of japper multis is having a positive effect on NZ society by keeping you from joining the police.:Pokey:

Kickaha
7th February 2004, 20:13
What do Harley Davidsons and sheepdogs have in common?
After a good hard run they both like a ride home in the back of a ute!

The GSXR rider was obviously not trying,I've cleaned up 1340's on a BMW 75/7 and the BMW was not a fast bike.

Multis over the noise limit? and you bike has still got the stock pipes?

Jackrat
7th February 2004, 20:28
Did ya' hear about the HD rider that put oder eaters in his boots??
Two days later he'd vanished.
Were do ya' hide ya' money from an HD rider?
Under the soap.
Why do HD riders Chrome every thing??
Makes the parts eazyer to find in the road side grass.
What do hound dogs a HDs have in common??
They both leave puddles where they shouldn't and like to ride in pick up trucks.
Do ya' like my dog,he's a low rider, Nobodys safe,,, :laugh: :doobey:

Zed
7th February 2004, 20:45
To those of you who ride sports bikes and think you are the fastest thing since freddie spencer beware, I passed and overtook a GSXR750 today on my 1340 HD, sure I can already hear you all saying I have more cubes, but this was on a winding road so my bigger more powerful engine had no advntage. So next time you see a Fatboy HD dont laugh too much or it might just shut you down. And to those of you who ride Multi's the noise they emit is not only terrible but often over the decibal limit that the law requires! Just as well Im not a police motorbike rider or I would ticket the lot of you. :brick:
Hiya Tribesman & welcome to the site...

Now c'mon, surely you can't expect us to take you seriously? Why don't you share with the group your real reasons for your sports bike beef? There is something deeper that you aren't telling us! :sneaky2:


Zed
(Sports bike addict)

matthewt
7th February 2004, 21:06
Thank you Tribesman I think you have redefined the term TROLL.

You must be sitting back laughing your ass off at the responses you got outta that one.

Well done :cool:

dangerous
7th February 2004, 21:08
Theres only one Hog that i've seen hauling arse (including Buel) and that was a fugley big somthing that a bloke called Willims or Willimson rides at Runapuna and Graymouth.

bondagebunny
7th February 2004, 21:28
what the difference between a HD and a vaccuum cleaner.

the position of the dirt bag.


I would like someone to explain the term troll to me
after all jack rat has accussed me of being one - i would at least like to know what it means


Dracula holds the patent on anything that sux

k14
7th February 2004, 21:29
That would be Lynday Williamson. He used to (not sure if he still does) have a HD that was called "Blackadder" (if i recall correctly) and he is one hell of a rider.

Got John Britten into racing and did the bathurst 6 hour with him a few times.

But come on tribesman. My scooter could beat a hog on some twisties :shifty:

PeteThePom
7th February 2004, 22:05
To those of you who ride sports bikes and think you are the fastest thing since freddie spencer beware, I passed and overtook a GSXR750 today on my 1340 HD, sure I can already hear you all saying I have more cubes, but this was on a winding road so my bigger more powerful engine had no advntage. So next time you see a Fatboy HD dont laugh too much or it might just shut you down. And to those of you who ride Multi's the noise they emit is not only terrible but often over the decibal limit that the law requires! Just as well Im not a police motorbike rider or I would ticket the lot of you. :brick:You might have more cubes but u dont know shit about bikes yer f@~kin troll! Let us compare the two combatants:
GSXR750 128bhp max power around the 9000rpm mark weighs 179 kilo's red lines at 14000rpm
You dont say which 1340 you ride, is it fxd, fxdl, fxdlt, fxdwg? So I'll assume the fxdxt(super glide T sport to those who dont know)
This comes in at a whopping 60bhp and an even lardier 300kilo's max power is @3000rpm but it tops out about 4,600rpm(note HD dont even publish the bhp figures for their bikes, makes u think dont it)

Now my beef is not that you outrode? this gsxr750 rider(I've seen it done, theres a lot of riders with bikes bigger than them) but u claim because it was due to more cubes, the maths dont work pal, your carrying an extra 121 kilo's and with less than half the power, the only way your cubes make a difference is in your torque, which develops lower down the rev range and thus MIGHT give you a quicker get away from a standstill for a few yards until you pull the clutch in to change into second at which point the gixer comes past you STILL in first gear at 75mph!! YOU LOSE ALL WAYS.:moon:

I HATE TROLLS BUT I REALLY HATE TROLLS WHO DONT BOTHER TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK FIRST SO THEY CAN AT LEAST SOUND CONVINCING

Jackrat
7th February 2004, 22:31
what the difference between a HD and a vaccuum cleaner.

the position of the dirt bag.


I would like someone to explain the term troll to me
after all jack rat has accussed me of being one - i would at least like to know what it means


Dracula holds the patent on anything that sux

BB,A troll,and I only just found this out myself resently,Aparrantly I am one. :whistle:
A troll is somebody that posts just to get a negitive responce and or create
a stir.Like I say, I fall pretty much into that catagory,As you probably noticed I also bite like a hungry fish.I like to think I give others something to laugh about.Well wouldn't life be boring other wise :rolleyes: :apint:
Oh yeah and this guy Tribesman is a classic.

ching_ching
7th February 2004, 22:48
Don't worry Jackrat. Apparently I've been told I look like a troll... tough break huh?

PeteThePom
7th February 2004, 22:54
BB,A troll,and I only just found this out myself resently,Aparrantly I am one. :whistle:
A troll is somebody that posts just to get a negitive responce and or create
a stir.I wonder if they (trolls) have their own forum?
And what do they post about?
And are they all single posts with no replies?

mccool
7th February 2004, 23:45
I passed and overtook a 1340 HD on my mountain bike on Rimutaka Hill. Sure I can already hear you all saying I have 27 gears, but this was on a rully rully noisy mountain bike and the cops didn't catch me, even though I was over the decibal limit that the law requires! Wow.

Lou Girardin
8th February 2004, 03:59
I had a race with a Harley once. It was on the North M/Way, he stayed with me to 160km/h, then he just disappeared behind. I thought it was quite a close thing really.
Lou
P S I was in my car!

moko
8th February 2004, 07:44
The Fatboys got to be the first bike to be named after the kind of rider`s it attracts.So when do we see the Harley Gullible Rich Dickhead?

bluninja
8th February 2004, 07:51
The Fatboys got to be the first bike to be named after the kind of rider`s it attracts.So when do we see the Harley Gullible Rich Dickhead?
Oooooh I want one of them when I'm rich:laugh:

Jackrat
8th February 2004, 08:15
The Fatboys got to be the first bike to be named after the kind of rider`s it attracts.So when do we see the Harley Gullible Rich Dickhead?

Just a point of interest,The Fat boy was in fact named after the first bomb the Yanks dropped on Japan.That's also were the original silver paint job with the seven yellow rings came from.HD did in fact addvertise that when the Fat boy first came out but then pulled the add when it was pointed out how un PC it was. :rolleyes:

bondagebunny
8th February 2004, 08:47
BB,A troll,and I only just found this out myself resently,Aparrantly I am one. :whistle:
A troll is somebody that posts just to get a negitive responce and or create
a stir.Like I say, I fall pretty much into that catagory,As you probably noticed I also bite like a hungry fish.I like to think I give others something to laugh about.Well wouldn't life be boring other wise :rolleyes: :apint:
Oh yeah and this guy Tribesman is a classic.


Thank you for the explaination - ok I admit it fits - so no offence taken

but why does this site have over 700 members and only about 15 posters - the same ones over and over again - surely you guys should be out riding.
Some of us have to work on computers and drop in and out of our mailboxes and have a check here -but others are permanently on line here.

DEATH_INC.
8th February 2004, 08:51
Just a point of interest,The Fat boy was in fact named after the first bomb the Yanks dropped on Japan.:

Can't think of any other use for a hardley myself........

jrandom
8th February 2004, 08:55
Just a point of interest,The Fat boy was in fact named after the first bomb the Yanks dropped on Japan.That's also were the original silver paint job with the seven yellow rings came from.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

Of course, having recently spent time browsing nuclearweapons.org, I have to split a hair and correct you... the first nuke they dropped (Hiroshima) was 'Little Boy', the second one (Nagasaki) was 'Fat Man'.

I do think that naming a motorcycle after those bombs displays a rather appalling lack of taste, though.

Maybe our Friendly Local Misogynistic Harley Riders enjoy meditating on the meaning of their Fat Boy's moniker as they get passed by Japanese bikes.

Motu
8th February 2004, 08:56
Jackrat and I saw some Harleys racing at the classic meet yesterday,they were doing real well,mixing it up at the sharp end of the field - I love to hear a Harley being pushed hard,but it's a rare thing.

I think the bike that impressed me most in the bike park was either an XLCR or an XR1000,done sort of halfway cafe/streettracker,a beautiful bike.

Although I'm guilty of it myself,it's a bit silly to compare yourself to a bike you meet along the road - you don't know who they are or why they are riding the way they are....I mean,his tyres could of been down half a psi,his suspn 2 clicks soft,any number of reasons for a Harley to clean him up.

jrandom
8th February 2004, 08:58
the same ones over and over again - surely you guys should be out riding

I spend all my workdays at my desk in front of my 'puter and get bored occasionally. How's that for an answer? Hence the reason why I never (hardly) post on weekends. Erm. Back out on the bike now... :whistle:

Jackrat
8th February 2004, 09:09
Interesting, I didn't know that.

Of course, having recently spent time browsing nuclearweapons.org, I have to split a hair and correct you... the first nuke they dropped (Hiroshima) was 'Little Boy', the second one (Nagasaki) was 'Fat Man'.

I do think that naming a motorcycle after those bombs displays a rather appalling lack of taste, though.

Maybe our Friendly Local Misogynistic Harley Riders enjoy meditating on the meaning of their Fat Boy's moniker as they get passed by Japanese bikes.

Hmmmm,I stand corrected,sort of,And yeah It was in pretty poor taste wasn,t
it.As to HD riders knowing this them selfs,I doubt many of them do.
I only found out about it while reading an articule about HDs addvertising style.Apparantly HD pulled the add pretty quick.When I had my own HDs the common term for the first Fatboy was cheese sandwich due to the yellow ring on the heads,But even that was pretty much an inside joke.
Hmmmmm,I can't help but notice that Tribesman hasn't been back.
Pity really he was a good joke to!!

Kickaha
8th February 2004, 09:10
Theres only one Hog that i've seen hauling arse (including Buel) and that was a fugley big somthing that a bloke called Willims or Willimson rides at Runapuna and Graymouth.

Lindsay Williamson
He used to ride a McIntosh Framed XR1000 quite some time ago,I think it was timed at 149mph at the BEARs speed trial one year,now on occasion he runs a Buell.

Coldkiwi
8th February 2004, 10:21
any number of reasons for a Harley to clean him up.

what reasons? like blind? dead and simply frozen on the bike???

Incidentally, that happen in spain apparently. Some biker got hypothermia on a long highway and went unconcious. cops chased him for 20 km or something and couldn't get his attention because he'd just frozen to death with his hand locked on the throttle! sounds far fetched but it did make the herald.

Motu
8th February 2004, 15:04
what reasons? like blind? dead and simply frozen on the bike???

You missed some of the quote out,how about putting that in?

SPman
8th February 2004, 19:46
Well, one of the quickest bikes I'ved followed from Okato to New Plymouth,was a (I presume)local on a Harley!
Don't know what sized motor, but it sure werent stock, complete with barn door stance bars, but F!!k me, I had to red line the FZR750 just to keep him in sight on the straights!And he was gettin around the curves pretty good as well! OK, an R1 etc may well have had his measure, but the rider would have to work hard for his "superiority"!

Timber020
8th February 2004, 20:20
I love to see a Harley pushed hard, luckily most mid life crisises can just call the AA.

dangerous
8th February 2004, 20:23
Well, one of the quickest bikes I'ved followed from Okato to New Plymouth,was a (I presume)local on a Harley!
Don't know what sized motor, but it sure werent stock, complete with barn door stance bars, but F!!k me, I had to red line the FZR750 just to keep him in sight on the straights!And he was gettin around the curves pretty good as well! OK, an R1 etc may well have had his measure, but the rider would have to work hard for his "superiority"!

Well yeah, Hay a lot of it is down to the rider. Now if ya want a gigle then read on. But I once had a CX500 shadow that I kinda hot roded theres the gigle (from cam, jets, pipe to 1100efe fairing) and we all know what these things are like, but anyway I had this bike for 10 odd years and in that time I blew the wind out of a lot of guys sails on much bigger bikes not cos it was gruntier than theres but cos I knew how to ride it.
I had a XJ900 lose it behind me trying to keep up going down hill and a mint Z1 do the same thing going up hill both riders thinking this ugly 500 aint going to get away from me. And then there was a YZF600 that went down in frount of me for the same reason.
I also had a Hog keeping up with me doing my best on my MG 1100i sport but I tell ya what the Hog wasent tidy I mean like grinding shit off every were using the hole road and wobling like hell but he kept up. Dont wana do that again

Jackrat
8th February 2004, 21:21
Yep,as Motu has pointed out in the past,there are some pretty darn good riders out their,Ya' just never know when you will meet one.
I don't claim to be a good rider but I know the Awhitu Rd very well,I had two guys on bigger bikes than my old girl try to stay with me up there a few weeks back,They couldn't do it.That is keeping in mind I rode the road twice a day for seven years,but it still felt good.
Bloody legend in my own mind mate. :laugh: :rolleyes:

matthewt
8th February 2004, 21:42
Ya' just never know when you will meet one.

I was riding my cbr900 one time from picton to ChCh at night. I tried to follow this car from Blenhiem to Kaikoura and lost sight of him just before kaikoura. F**K me he was moving. I don't think I saw his brake lights come on more that half a dozen times for the entire stretch.

Coldkiwi
9th February 2004, 12:42
its a big call chasing a car at night given how much better their headlights are. not worth it unless you know the road pretty well I say.

matthewt
9th February 2004, 13:14
its a big call chasing a car at night given how much better their headlights are. not worth it unless you know the road pretty well I say.

I wasn't chasing him so much as trying to keep the same distance behind him. I had to hang back a safe distance so I could use my full beam without pissing him off.

Big Dog
9th February 2004, 15:51
what reasons? like blind? dead and simply frozen on the bike???

Incidentally, that happen in spain apparently. Some biker got hypothermia on a long highway and went unconcious. cops chased him for 20 km or something and couldn't get his attention because he'd just frozen to death with his hand locked on the throttle! sounds far fetched but it did make the herald.
How about "doesn't see sped as the objective anymore"?

I get passed by jrandom quite regular :scooter:

Redstar
9th February 2004, 20:34
:scooter: This was a nice little bit of banter :confused:
hey I have I little 400 dyno's at 65hp :moon:
I dont mind letting anyone get the better of me cause I have the internal knowledge that if I want too I can dice anything its also Power to weight ratio like I can beat a 300hp car off the mark but why bother with all that fuss.
I have no problem with the HD thing its a totally different world that I've never understood its breeding and experience.
It would worry me if I had to chain my bike to the Garage floor!
mind you who would want to steal my garage floor? :)

Kwaka-Kid
9th February 2004, 21:43
tribesman: i dont really have problems with anyone on here, infact i like the lot of em, including you, i think this post is a little bit of a shitkicker, but hey, havent we all done them before (or maybe just me?) what i dont understand is how i can learn from comments like "yer a tossa KY jelly boy shud be anal lube".
Got to admit im keen on trying to please as many as i can and learning as much as possible from KB, this includes social stuff too.. and i think this whole reputation thing is good, although i have many bad ones, but without comment. Id like to ask if possible as many as possible that do choose to put a bad mark against my name (or a good one in the rare case) would you mind spending the extra 20seconds on putting a constructive comment against it that i might be able to understand/learn against... Thanks heaps all. and sorry i dont know how to format this writing to bigger. Night, and Tribesman, i apologise if ever my race pipe on my 400 has ever disturbed you or anyone else, i sometimes get bored and put it on off my racebike, but ill try to keep my stock one on as much as possible if it will keep a few more happy.
Night guys.

SpankMe
10th February 2004, 07:50
tribesman hasn't actually visited since his original post. It's like some kid knocking on your door, then running away.

Dave
10th February 2004, 09:16
I would like to see the Mighty 1340 front up at pukekohe and see if he can match the 1.07's that i can do on my 125cc. Surely with all those cubes, i wouldn't see which way he went.
Just hope i dont hit him in the head with a piece of rice on the way to lap him!

Coldkiwi
10th February 2004, 11:54
absolutely dave. he'd be lapping you before you could call your mummy's name I'm sure :)

James Deuce
10th February 2004, 12:02
All those cubes and 55 BHP.

My 1055cc FIAT has the same :)

But seriously, I've got a couple of mates with HDs and its not about how they ride or what they ride. I just like their company.

mangell6
10th February 2004, 17:01
But seriously, I've got a couple of mates with HDs and its not about how they ride or what they ride. I just like their company.

Yes Jim2, we all believe you . . . . . .

And now for some real fun . . . .

Standing ¼
Suzuki TL1000S 1998 - 11.61
Harley Davidson FXD 1755 2002 - 11.63
Suzuki GSXR 750 1990 - 11.79
Triumph 595 1997 - 11.99

Flying ¼ - - - - - - - - Secs - Avg Mph - Km/h
Kawasaki Z1000 2003 - 6.26 - 143.77 - 230.03
Triumph 595 1997 - 6.27 - 143.54 - 229.67
Yamaha RZ500 1984 - 6.35 - 141.73 - 226.77
Harley Davidson FXD 1755 2002 - 6.4 - 140.63 - 225.00
Suzuki GSXR 1100 1987 - 6.61 - 136.16 - 217.85

Some may recognise the times and a search for 'sprint' will reveal all.

Mike

marty
10th February 2004, 17:35
my 250 has more than that....

Lou Girardin
10th February 2004, 19:16
Is an FXD1755 a factory stock bike?
Lou

wkid_one
10th February 2004, 19:19
Hasn't tribesman left since he started this thread?

SPman
10th February 2004, 19:20
Anyway




http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1008&stc=1

!:devil2:

Jackrat
10th February 2004, 21:36
Is an FXD1755 a factory stock bike?
Lou
Nope,it is a stroked motor or a S&S,Revtech or some thing of that kind.
You know the motor HD should have built,
And SPman hope you don't mind but I swiped that poster of yours,Just had to have it, :niceone:

Lou Girardin
11th February 2004, 05:42
In that case, it's a typical Hardley slug. All that money spent and it's about as quick as a stock 'rice burner'.
Lou

MikeL
11th February 2004, 07:27
Calling tribesman. Come in, tribesman. Are you receiving? Over...

slob
11th February 2004, 07:32
Has it occurred to anyone that tribesman might be an existing kiwibiker using a second login for a laugh? If so, then I bet they're having a very prolonged laugh at our expense! :laugh:

marty
11th February 2004, 07:37
i think he has just changed his handle - probably to SPOOK

Jackrat
11th February 2004, 07:49
In that case, it's a typical Hardley slug. All that money spent and it's about as quick as a stock 'rice burner'.
Lou

Yep your on to that.
But for a slightly different angle consider this,and I'm not into arguing about this,It is just my own perspective.
I bought my first HD when I lived in Oz,The main reasons I bought the thing was because I wanted to see the country on a bike,Iv'e always liked the size,sound,And over all looks of HD.Taste,a subjective thing at the best of times huh???.Any way, the bike was a 1980FLT 1340Tourglide with about 180.000km on the clock,She had one previous owner and Iv,e known the guy for quite a while.I got her just rebuilt for the second time,the first time top end only the second the full works.As she was an AMF bike most of the important parts had been replaced with better bits from S&S,Andrews, ect.
Other than a mild Cam she was not built with speed in mind but she would sit on 140km all day.I payed $10.000 for her.Being a shovel head,The bike that is not me,I was told all sorts of horror storys And given heaps of shit even by other HD riders.Well suprise suprise I covered around 80.000 km in eighteen
months and she never missed a beat.The one issue i had with her was the clutch,That still being the AMF item,I lived with it.
I sold her to a mate for the same price I payed for her before coming back home.I rode that bike in the way it had been disigned to be riden,Flick on the cruise and point her at the road,Up to twelve hours later I would stop riding were ever I'd ended up.She was a bloody good bike.
My second one was a 1996 1200 sportster,Again I got it for a good price,
From a HOG club member who had just crashed it.A little bit of money and work an I was off.Well for a 1200cc bike called a sportster it was SLOW,And handled no better than my old FL,Ok the brakes were better but thats it.I still got shit from other HD riders and of course any jap bike rider who would talk to me anyway,,not many I can tell ya'(bunch of bloody snobs)Well me and the sporty didn't really get on and then I lost it due to reasons we won't go into here.One of my brothers owns a 2000 dyna sport,he had it rebuilt to 1800cc before it even left the shop,he won't say but I think the bike owes him around $90.000..He is a pro Tattooist and has more money than most of us will ever see.I know a lot of Kiwi have a major chip against people that put in the hard yards and come out well off an with the bucks to do what ever they like but I will tell you, my brother is no yuppie.He just like me is not interested in racing anyone,just gets a lot of enjoyment from the comfort looks,sounds and huge amounts of tourqe.I will build my own next time,I am lucky I have the contacts to do this and save a bit of cash in the process.
I guess I am just a yuppie,rich cunt,posser ect, ect,And then maybe I just like what I like,,,,,,,,,,,Go figure

jrandom
11th February 2004, 09:58
One of my brothers owns a 2000 dyna sport,he had it rebuilt to 1800cc before it even left the shop,he won't say but I think the bike owes him around $90.000

egads

That's way past any debate on the merit of HD or any other brand, that's a completely custom creation then, innit? Good on your bro for being able to afford such a thing, he must have worked his nuts off. For that price you could have one of those special-edition MV Agustas with carbon fibre up the wazoo and still have enough folding left over for a holiday in Tahiti.

I think *most* guys beef with HD is that they sell, stock, for more than they should be worth and are engineering-wise a bit pants. Cruisers have quite a coolness factor going on, but I think I'd rather have a VTX for half the price of an FXD.

Yawn. We should probably make the 'Hardleys suck' topic an instant thread death thing.

James Deuce
11th February 2004, 11:49
egads

(snip)

I think *most* guys beef with HD is that they sell, stock, for more than they should be worth and are engineering-wise a bit pants. Cruisers have quite a coolness factor going on, but I think I'd rather have a VTX for half the price of an FXD.

(snip)

.

Its a very good point though I think that the new Sportster range is priced well, and compares well to the mid-size Japanese cruisers offerings (except maybe the VTX1300).

You really can't fault Harley's marketing though. And I think the world would a poorer place without them. I mean what other way would I get to feel all smug and superior becaue my engine is a twin half the size of the "big" HDs with 50% more power and torque, and 75% more lean angle :)