Friends dont let Friends buy Used Hybrids

[R650R]

Recently an ex partner was annoyed with her shitter and decided to go car shopping on trade me for new cage

Before I got the chance to save her she'd already bid on a Toyota Kruger which among other things has a camry based engine known to have weak conrods (prob due to suv weight)
Lucky the stealership let her transfer her deposit to something else...

Anyway heres a good short vid explaining some of the hidden costs on an older secondhand hybrid...beware... wouldn't have thought about the alternator/generator part....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0F5e-lrlWQ

[HenryDorsetCase]

Also its really hard to buy an electric car that ISN'T a Nissan Leaf.

[Naki Rat]

Hybrids are a temporary thing and will phase out pretty quickly once battery tech advances sufficiently to provide good range per charge. In the meantime hybrids give you longer travel per 'fill-up' but with they have the worst of both fossil fuelers and EVs - an engine and drive train with 2,000 parts to wear out, and a small battery (compared to a full EV).

Sure most EVs on the market currently are Nissans but that is changing fast with virtually all existing car makers plus many new entrants releasing EV models onto the market. These are getting cheaper due to dropping battery manufacturing costs and will also soon appear as secondhand vehicles.

[Laava]

My in laws bought a Renault Zoe EV and love it. They have a best distance of 350km between charges, all in a 50 kmh zone. Better than a nissan leaf!

[george formby]

They're coming, like it or not. Still gonna be awhile before the tech matches NZ driving outside of the burbs, a decade?

Some interesting stats in this article I read earlier today.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45084671

[russd7]

think evs will be stuck to being shopping trollies, hydrogen based motive power is the way of the future for those that want distance and convenience

[Naki Rat]

Robert Llewellyn of Red Dwarf (Kryton) and Robot Wars hosts the online channel 'Fully Charged (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzz4CoEgSgWNs9ZAvRMhW2A)' focussing on EVs and associated technologies. Great information source :niceone:

Back in June they ran a live event at Silverstone with attendance exceeding their wildest expectations. Exhibitions by manufacturers of EVs and associated kit and a heap of panel discussions. This video of the first panel chat is followed by another dozen or so that are well worth watching if you want to get up to speed on these technologies. Enjoy :cool:

https://youtu.be/hCa3BD0Haew

[Naki Rat]

think evs will be stuck to being shopping trollies, hydrogen based motive power is the way of the future for those that want distance and convenienceCheck out the Fully Charged Live videos in my post above and you will be rethinking that...

[AllanB]

At 53 I've lost count of the number of winter 'power crisis' NZ has had over my life. Due to green huggers worried about exotic rock moss and snails I really don;t think anything of note has been added to the grid to improve supply.

And given all the hype about global warming is it smart to rely on a electrical system that is based on snow and rainfall?

And cunty Governments and Councils refuse to pass simple, effective laws making it compulsory for any new build to have solar power - as a minimum water heating supplementary solar panels.

[Cosmik de Bris]

A guy I work with bought his old man a Nissan Leaf from Turner's. He paid $6000 for it but the batteries were down to about 60%. It took him 4 days to drive to Invercargill from Christchurch.

Cheers

[Laava]

A guy I work with bought his old man a Nissan Leaf from Turner's. He paid $6000 for it but the batteries were down to about 60%. It took him 4 days to drive to Invercargill from Christchurch.

Cheers

When they were new, 1st gen, they were only good for about 80km on the open road! Piss poor. You would need a generator going in the boot!

[Naki Rat]

When they were new, 1st gen, they were only good for about 80km on the open road! Piss poor. You would need a generator going in the boot!We've had our 2012 Gen 1 Leaf since 2014. It had 9,000km on it when we got it and it had a 110km battery range then. Close to 50,000km on it now and range is around 80km, and it still beats most fossil fueled cars off the lights if we floor it :lol:

We plan to change out the battery for a new/aftermarket/refurbished one in a couple of years by which time we expect the replacement to be under $3K and more likely to be larger capacity than the 24kWh original. The old one will be repurposed to store PV generation and run the house requirements from it.

A generator in the boot is pretty much what some hybrids are...

[R650R]

We've had our 2012 Gen 1 Leaf since 2014. It had 9,000km on it when we got it and it had a 110km battery range then. Close to 50,000km on it now and range is around 80km, and it still beats most fossil fueled cars off the lights if we floor it :lol:

We plan to change out the battery for a new/aftermarket/refurbished one in a couple of years by which time we expect the replacement to be under $3K and more likely to be larger capacity than the 24kWh original. The old one will be repurposed to store PV generation and run the house requirements from it.

A generator in the boot is pretty much what some hybrids are...

So your happy to pay $500 a year in repair cost then plus electric charging price? (3K divided into 6 years) An equivlant small car could prob get by on $500 petrol a year.... I have a 200km 3.5L V6, with pushbiking to work when its fine, walking to paknsave for groceries I get by on about $100 month petrol (inclusive power company aa rewards)....

Apparently those leafs have the best batteries out there, some use them for home solar setups....

[R650R]

At 53 I've lost count of the number of winter 'power crisis' NZ has had over my life. Due to green huggers worried about exotic rock moss and snails I really don;t think anything of note has been added to the grid to improve supply.

And given all the hype about global warming is it smart to rely on a electrical system that is based on snow and rainfall?

And cunty Governments and Councils refuse to pass simple, effective laws making it compulsory for any new build to have solar power - as a minimum water heating supplementary solar panels.

I've covered this in other posts but basically the regime in charge at the time will....

MANDATE that your vehicles are plugged into the grid at ALL times when not in use. Your fully charged battery will bleed power to charge your busy neighbours car to lessen load on the grid.
This really sucks as it will be extra wear and tear on your battery.
The other reason why there will HAVE to be localised load sharing/redistribution is the national grid will not cope with 3 million people coming home at 5pm and plugging their cars in.
There will be fines and charges for not behaving and connecting to the grid. Your car will know when its near a charge point and not plugged in and will autoreport you to authorities.
It will be interesting the first time there is a major storm or infrastructure failure that takes out a nationwide distribution node at end of holiday weekend with many people needing recharge, how will everyone get to work next day....????
Also stuck in the snow on desert rd... wouldn't want to be low on charge, no heater.....

We are headed into an era of technocratic dictatorship where the lefts tool of climate taxes to save the children will force this level of control on us. That's why we have smart meters creeping in, so the govt can remotely turn off your supply and decide what devices get power. During a tie of political unrest or protest it will be so easy to not let phones/tv/computers powered on.....

[granstar]

Bring on the solar powered vibrators.

[Naki Rat]

So your happy to pay $500 a year in repair cost then plus electric charging price? (3K divided into 6 years) An equivlant small car could prob get by on $500 petrol a year.... I have a 200km 3.5L V6, with pushbiking to work when its fine, walking to paknsave for groceries I get by on about $100 month petrol (inclusive power company aa rewards)....The Leaf is similar in size and performance to a Mazda 3 which would cost us around $1,500/year in fuel for the 10,000km we do (at current fuel prices) and our electricity cost for charging is about $500/year using Ecotricity's night rate. $1,000/year saving easily puts us on the plus side by the time we need replace the battery pack. The only significant maintenance cost we have had on the Leaf in 4 years is a new set of tyres due before the next WOF.

There's basically nothing to maintain compared to a fossil fueler! Our second vehicle is a 2002 Commodore used for trailer towing and infrequent out of province trips which is worth FA as a trade in so we'll run it into the ground. Very reliable old tank but we only have to look at a service centre with the Commodore and it costs $500.


Apparently those leafs have the best batteries out there, some use them for home solar setups....That's our plan :niceone:

[AllanB]

Bring on the solar powered vibrators.

Potentially most get used at night? Maybe a shit would been needed to a lunch-time plug in the sun.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We've had our 2012 Gen 1 Leaf since 2014. It had 9,000km on it when we got it and it had a 110km battery range then. Close to 50,000km on it now and range is around 80km, and it still beats most fossil fueled cars off the lights if we floor it :lol:

We plan to change out the battery for a new/aftermarket/refurbished one in a couple of years by which time we expect the replacement to be under $3K and more likely to be larger capacity than the 24kWh original. The old one will be repurposed to store PV generation and run the house requirements from it.

A generator in the boot is pretty much what some hybrids are...

interesting. I just got offered $14k as a tradein for my six year old Subaru XV I bought new and if I tipped another 19k into a new XV. I like the car but I may as well keep it, drive it into the ground (and it will do a lot less ks if I have an EV to trip around town in) and tip the $19k into an EV I reckon. I was really impressed with the Leaf I drove

[Naki Rat]

interesting. I just got offered $14k as a tradein for my six year old Subaru XV I bought new and if I tipped another 19k into a new XV. I like the car but I may as well keep it, drive it into the ground (and it will do a lot less ks if I have an EV to trip around town in) and tip the $19k into an EV I reckon. I was really impressed with the Leaf I droveAnother thought is that for most city dwellers 90% or more of driving is short run stuff that makes an EV a perfect fit. For the remaining 10% or less it actually makes sense to grab a hire car (or swap your EV for your mate's car for the weekend) rather than own a second (or third) vehicle that spends most of its time in the shed.

[Scuba_Steve]

We bought a leaf as we worked out a 5yr payback on petrol saving alone at current prices (which are only likely to get more expensive) and then there's the extra savings like no oil or oil filters etc
If the NZTA add RUCs EV's will become useless, but as they're well behind their target for EV fleet I'm not expecting to see them anytime soon so for now it's all but a free ride

JappaLand as mentioned by others have also worked on using the leaf to power houses so you can offset peak pricing with the leaf (or power in an outage) & change during off-peak

Range is still the biggest problem for EV's & I suspect will be for a few years yet

[Naki Rat]

....
If the NZTA add RUCs EV's will become useless, but as they're well behind their target for EV fleet I'm not expecting to see them anytime soon so for now it's all but a free ride.....Original projections for EVs in NZ was for 8,000 by the end of this year. We passed that number back in May (https://www.transport.govt.nz/resources/vehicle-fleet-statistics/monthly-electric-and-hybrid-light-vehicle-registrations/).

At current growth rates RUCs may be charged on EVs earlier than the end of 2021 (https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/climatechange/electric-vehicles/) as currently planned though an extra 6c or so per km RUC is hardly a gamebreaker when EVs have energy costs equivalent to around 20c/litre petrol, or less if off-peak tariffs or PV are used for charging.

We are actually more likely to see some sort of incentivisation towards EVs funded by an ICE vehicle levy judging from recent murmurings from TPTB.

[Scuba_Steve]

Original projections for EVs in NZ was for 8,000 by the end of this year. We passed that number back in May (https://www.transport.govt.nz/resources/vehicle-fleet-statistics/monthly-electric-and-hybrid-light-vehicle-registrations/).

At current growth rates RUCs may be charged on EVs earlier than the end of 2021 (https://www.transport.govt.nz/multi-modal/climatechange/electric-vehicles/) as currently planned though an extra 6c or so per km RUC is hardly a gamebreaker when EVs have energy costs equivalent to around 20c/litre petrol, or less if off-peak tariffs or PV are used for charging.

We are actually more likely to see some sort of incentivisation towards EVs funded by an ICE vehicle levy judging from recent murmurings from TPTB.

Plan was to have 64k on road by 2021 (and labour wants to increase this for some reason ignoring the fact they're failing to achieve that now) we're only at somewhere round 8-9k; in-fact your link puts it at 9.2k with 3yrs left to get the extra 54,800 needed for the goal


On 5 May 2016, the Government announced its Electric Vehicles Programme. This includes measures to increase the number of electric vehicles in New Zealand and has a goal of reaching approximately 64,000 electric vehicles on our roads by the end of 2021.
Which ties in with the RUC's

Extending the Road User Charges (RUC) exemption on light vehicles until they make up two percent of the light vehicles fleet
On 22 September 2016, the RUC exemption for light electric vehicles was extended until 31 December 2021.
I.E. the plan is to give EV's a "free ride" until they make up 2% of the roading fleet or 64,000 vehicles, which they are well far off achieving even with best predictions.
It's taken them 5yrs to get 9.2k EV's so getting another 54.8k EV's in 3yrs ins't looking too successful... Lets just say I'm expecting another delay on those RUC's for quite sometime

[neels]

I like the car but I may as well keep it, drive it into the ground (and it will do a lot less ks if I have an EV to trip around town in)
From an environment point of view that's probably the best thing you can do, the carbon footprint of a new car is horrendous with the vast amount of plastic and electronics that go into them.


I can see the logic of an EV as a shopping basket, but it's a long claw back on the purchase cost vs keeping and maintaining the cheap fun old shitter that owes me nothing, I'm not a business so there's no advantage in terms of capital vs revenue expenditure.

The e-golfs look nice mainly because they just look like a golf, at least they've resisted the trend of making an electric car look like an electric car which in most cases is bloody silly, still about the same range as the other EV's though so only semi-useful.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Another thought is that for most city dwellers 90% or more of driving is short run stuff that makes an EV a perfect fit. For the remaining 10% or less it actually makes sense to grab a hire car (or swap your EV for your mate's car for the weekend) rather than own a second (or third) vehicle that spends most of its time in the shed.

Absolutely true. Oh, and I paid north of $40k for the XV... having said that at the time I was self employed so I got back some GST, and the running expenses and finance cost were tax deductible due to the magic of accountancy.

I do feel kind of bad riding these pesky motorbikes though.*



*not really.

[pritch]

think evs will be stuck to being shopping trollies,

And rubbish trucks, and busses, and anthing else that basically runs all day. That makes for a better economic case.

[Naki Rat]

Worth a read: https://tomraftery.com/2018/06/27/seven-reasons-why-the-internal-combustion-engine-is-a-dead-man-walking/

[neels]

Worth a read: https://tomraftery.com/2018/06/27/seven-reasons-why-the-internal-combustion-engine-is-a-dead-man-walking/
Anyone who has had the misfortune of being forced to use SAP, would not put much faith in the opinions of a Innovation Evangelist for SAP. If they built electric cars, they'd cost 10 times what they should, do a whole lot of shit you don't need, and all of it badly.

I could live with driving a mercedes with a range of 500km though, unfortunately like all electrics that will be 'theoretical maximum range', so halve it for the real world.