Power bills

[R650R]

How many people have an electric contract that includes prompt payment discount???
Heard a ruffling in the news the other day about it not being "fair" to poor people who cant pay their bills on time, WTF!!!
So people who work for a living should have to pay more (if the pc brigade changes it) for electric because some poor person cant budget ahead for a monthly bill that is pretty much reasonable forecastable in rough terms.
There is no two tier pricing, only a price you pay if you aint got your shit together. Plenty of other things rates etc have late payment penalties etc...

[WALRUS]

We don't have that over here but I wish we did, that would be fantastic!

In Tassie we only have one energy provider so they have a monopoly over the entire state.. They can do and charge pretty much whatever they want to.

[Ocean1]

Heard a ruffling in the news the other day about it not being "fair" to poor people who cant pay their bills on time, WTF!!!

Insert observation on rampant confusion re cause/effect...

[pritch]

It never occured to me that the power companies were actually offering a discount. I've always considered it a penalty for late payment dressed up as a discount. Whatever, I do my best to make sure I don't have to pay it. At this time of year it'd pay for a bottle of wine.

Once when I was in hospital a guy who lived alone on a prepay system was discharged on a Saturday morning. Power was turned off because he was in hospital, he had very little credit and he would not be able to pay for more power until the office opened on Monday. Listening to him discussing his limited options put me off even considering a prepay scheme.

[Ocean1]

It never occured to me that the power companies were actually offering a discount. I've always considered it a penalty for late payment dressed up as a discount. Whatever, I do my best to make sure I don't have to pay it.

Yeah. Nah, if they called it a penalty people wold get all uppity, not fair to the underprivileged.

Oh....

[FJRider]

Heard a ruffling in the news the other day about it not being "fair" to poor people who cant pay their bills on time, WTF!!!
So people who work for a living should have to pay more (if the pc brigade changes it) for electric because some poor person cant budget ahead for a monthly bill that is pretty much reasonable forecastable in rough terms.
There is no two tier pricing, only a price you pay if you aint got your shit together. Plenty of other things rates etc have late payment penalties etc...

I heard a few (chain smoking) poor people on a benefit ... loudly declaring that the Benefits should be increased so they can afford to buy a house like everybody (???) else. Funnily enough ... the only ones that agreed with it ... were on a benefit.

[Grumph]

Well, speaking as a poor pensioner.....How serious are some of youse about reducing your power usage ?

I'll be upfront and say that the two of us have a usual bill of about $120/month. We have supplementary electric heating for some of our animals - we're breeders.
Main water heating is by wetback with the leccy turned off in the winter months as we have a logburner going mornings and evenings.
Supplemantary kitchen water heating via an underbench 20L cylinder. If I could be bothered I'd put a timeclock on that cylinder and probably save another $20/month. For the summer, there's a timeclock on the main cylinder.

It's not hard to cut the bills if you want to.

[BMWST?]

Well, speaking as a poor pensioner.....How serious are some of youse about reducing your power usage ?

I'll be upfront and say that the two of us have a usual bill of about $120/month. We have supplementary electric heating for some of our animals - we're breeders.
Main water heating is by wetback with the leccy turned off in the winter months as we have a logburner going mornings and evenings.
Supplemantary kitchen water heating via an underbench 20L cylinder. If I could be bothered I'd put a timeclock on that cylinder and probably save another $20/month. For the summer, there's a timeclock on the main cylinder.

It's not hard to cut the bills if you want to.
its not us you should be schooling on how to reduce leccy bills

[caspernz]

The prompt payment thing is merely a late payment fee in reverse. Don't care if those who can't budget end up paying more.

As an aside, got a call from one of the so-called discount power suppliers recently. The numbers didn't add up though, for I'm paying less with my current supplier than what caller was offering :brick:

[Grumph]

its not us you should be schooling on how to reduce leccy bills

So you'd sooner beneficiary bash than learn something ? Put up some numbers to show how good you are at saving power....

What I would point out is that because there's nothing in it for them, landlords do not fit the most economical heating. Having heating fitted is very good - but if the tenant can't afford to turn it on it's pointless.

[Ocean1]

What I would point out is that because there's nothing in it for them, landlords do not fit the most economical heating. Having heating fitted is very good - but if the tenant can't afford to turn it on it's pointless.

Landlords need to subsidise their tenant's heating costs too now?

Years ago, one of my tenants more or less demanded I replace the reasonably late model fixed electric heaters with a pair of nice heat pumps his mate's business dealt with, because it was cheaper. I pointed out that the house I lived in didn't have a heat pump, because the time required for the savings to pay back the outlay was more than the lifespan of the system. Nonetheless, I got a quote, (from elsewhere) and suggested that if he wanted that option I could raise the rent by about 10% of that cost, if it was cheaper then he'd be better off immediately, whereas I'd more or less break even after 10 years.

He said I was a greedy rich prick. I offered to swap his late model Holden V8 for my 25 year old Hiace. He got confused about why I would think there'd be any chance he'd possibly do that.

That (prevailing) attitude isn't responsible for me now being a greedy ex landlord rich prick, but I'm well pleased to be out of it.

[Grumph]

Landlords need to subsidise their tenant's heating costs too now?

Years ago, one of my tenants more or less demanded I replace the reasonably late model fixed electric heaters with a pair of nice heat pumps his mate's business dealt with, because it was cheaper. I pointed out that the house I lived in didn't have a heat pump, because the time required for the savings to pay back the outlay was more than the lifespan of the system. Nonetheless, I got a quote, (from elsewhere) and suggested that if he wanted that option I could raise the rent by about 10% of that cost, if it was cheaper then he'd be better off immediately, whereas I'd more or less break even after 10 years.

He said I was a greedy rich prick. I offered to swap his late model Holden V8 for my 25 year old Hiace. He got confused about why I would think there'd be any chance he'd possibly do that.

That (prevailing) attitude isn't responsible for me now being a greedy ex landlord rich prick, but I'm well pleased to be out of it.

No, there's no question of subsidising tenants heating costs. What should be looked at though when installing heating is the running costs. As far as your changing the fixed heating for heat pumps, I'm assuming you looked at how much of that you could claim back in taxes as maintenance costs...

All indications point to NZ becoming a nation of renters in due time. I'd think that if a long term tenant wants to invest some of his rent in affordable heating, there should be a process for that agreeable to owner and tenant.

[neels]

What I would point out is that because there's nothing in it for them, *some* landlords do not fit the most economical heating. Having heating fitted is very good - but if the tenant can't afford to turn it on it's pointless.
I suspect that will be the outcome if the latest round of rental property changes make it through, you're not going to spend a lot of money on heaters in bedrooms when there's a good chance the tenants will steal them along with the light bulbs and smoke alarms when they leave.

Even when there is a heat pump installed tenants will complain that it isn't working properly and think it's the landlords job to clean the completely blocked filters....

[Ocean1]

No, there's no question of subsidising tenants heating costs. What should be looked at though when installing heating is the running costs. As far as your changing the fixed heating for heat pumps, I'm assuming you looked at how much of that you could claim back in taxes as maintenance costs...

All indications point to NZ becoming a nation of renters in due time. I'd think that if a long term tenant wants to invest some of his rent in affordable heating, there should be a process for that agreeable to owner and tenant.

Well I wasn't installing heating, yet I still costed what the tenant wanted, and the only person it was cheaper for was the tenant.

Didn't bother, there's no way it would have been seen as deductible. Funnily enough, if it were his own house the tenant would have been eligible for subsidies for exactly the same capital outlay.

The deal I offered was the best any normal tenant is likely to be offered, didn't even propose charging him for the financials. In that tenant's case the only thing he found agreeable was someone else paying so that he didn't have to. A sentiment common enough it's likely to soon result in taxpayers providing whatever the perceived difference is between the real world and an "agreeable" one.

[Ocean1]

One thing I will add, is that I've found it beneficial to have multiple energy sources available. Ideally I'd like to also have gas and at least one form of solid fuel burner in a property, so you can juggle between them somewhat depending on price and availability. Like when I had the big place, when I was too busy to cut firewood then power/gas bills weren't a problem anyway, but if I had time then dropping a big gum tree and cutting it up saved heaps and was a great workout.

All of the extra systems do cost more to build though.

PS: I like pellet burners, but I don't like the price of the pellets, maybe there's a lack of suppliers, whatever, the price is higher than I think it should be. (Sound familiar?). One of my many pet plans is to make a pellet maker. They're not hard if You've got the gear. Could even sell them to pensioners with access to treewood wanting to supply their neighbours as a cash based pension stretching business.

[Swoop]

A workmate was wondering why his electricity meter was spinning around so fast, yet nothing was happening inside the house. He started delving into it...

"Ghost" electricity consumption was the issue. All those devices plugged in but on stand-by mode. He went around and switched off most of them at the wall and the result was far less electrical consumption.
How many other houses / workplaces are doing the same thing?

[Ocean1]

Fuck, what an absolute train wreck of an article...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/107083208/power-generators-made-54b-in-excess-profits

FFS don't read the comments! :laugh:

[F5 Dave]

Yeah quiescent power use is a drag and quite pointless.
We make battery powered stuff with soft on buttons so they have to be prepared to turn on with a push rather than a mechanical switch, yet sit there for weeks without draining the single battery.

Appliances do the same thing but plugged into mains they often just take the lazy implementation as access to power is infinite.
I'm hoping more manufacturers are paying attention to this.

[Ocean1]

Yeah quiescent power use is a drag and quite pointless.
We make battery powered stuff with soft on buttons so they have to be prepared to turn on with a push rather than a mechanical switch, yet sit there for weeks without draining the single battery.

Appliances do the same thing but plugged into mains they often just take the lazy implementation as access to power is infinite.
I'm hoping more manufacturers are paying attention to this.

Does good work there qualify for one of those energy efficient stickers on white-ware? Or does making the power cord no longer than two feet do the job?

[rambaldi]

Yeah quiescent power use is a drag and quite pointless.
We make battery powered stuff with soft on buttons so they have to be prepared to turn on with a push rather than a mechanical switch, yet sit there for weeks without draining the single battery.

Appliances do the same thing but plugged into mains they often just take the lazy implementation as access to power is infinite.
I'm hoping more manufacturers are paying attention to this.

It was a few years ago but the EU were meant to bring in some max power draw specs for appliances during their off time. Should have been in the order of milliwatts for TVs etc. so they actually turn off rather than just shut down the screen. I think by now it would have rolled out everywhere aside from the nock off stuff that has no intention of being sold in Europe. From my experience the most aggressive power hogs were set top boxes, used to have a TiVo when those were still a thing. You couldn't power it down, and pulling the plug meant it had a 10 minute startup when plugged back in next time.

[R650R]

A workmate was wondering why his electricity meter was spinning around so fast, yet nothing was happening inside the house. He started delving into it...

"Ghost" electricity consumption was the issue. All those devices plugged in but on stand-by mode. He went around and switched off most of them at the wall and the result was far less electrical consumption.
How many other houses / workplaces are doing the same thing?

The only things I leave permanently plugged on is PC (its getting old and packs a fit) and alarm, fridge, internet router. Aside from reducing waste its also a fire safety thing, faulty electrical appliances are a high cause of house fires.
Also switch oven off at wall when food comes out or off element as a habit for both reasons above.
My power for one person is under $100 in summer and about 150 in winter, existing heatpump sadly no fireplace and gas for hot water which is working out at about $400 year on 9Kg bottles with Caltex loyalty scheme.

[R650R]

One thing I will add, is that I've found it beneficial to have multiple energy sources available. Ideally I'd like to also have gas and at least one form of solid fuel burner in a property, so you can juggle between them somewhat depending on price and availability. Like when I had the big place, when I was too busy to cut firewood then power/gas bills weren't a problem anyway, but if I had time then dropping a big gum tree and cutting it up saved heaps and was a great workout.

All of the extra systems do cost more to build though.

PS: I like pellet burners, but I don't like the price of the pellets, maybe there's a lack of suppliers, whatever, the price is higher than I think it should be. (Sound familiar?). One of my many pet plans is to make a pellet maker. They're not hard if You've got the gear. Could even sell them to pensioners with access to treewood wanting to supply their neighbours as a cash based pension stretching business.

I love a good fire and its great if you get wood for free and have the time. But also time factor in putting it away somewhere dry and then restocking fire/lounge every night etc. Im using my heat pump about 5 hrs a night on average during winter and for me the cost in $ alone is prob same as buying wood. My heatpump is quite an old Panasonic one about 5kw ish

[Oakie]

A workmate was wondering why his electricity meter was spinning around so fast, yet nothing was happening inside the house. He started delving into it...

"Ghost" electricity consumption was the issue. All those devices plugged in but on stand-by mode. He went around and switched off most of them at the wall and the result was far less electrical consumption.
How many other houses / workplaces are doing the same thing?

Yep. Turn the microwave off when it's not being used and you'll save over $100 a year.

[MarkH]

Yep. Turn the microwave off when it's not being used and you'll save over $100 a year.

*cough* *cough* bullshit! *cough* *cough*

I think you may have meant around $8 per year.
If your microwave burns over $100 on standby then it would be cheaper to buy a new one than keep using the crappy one you have.


A workmate was wondering why his electricity meter was spinning around so fast, yet nothing was happening inside the house. He started delving into it...

"Ghost" electricity consumption was the issue. All those devices plugged in but on stand-by mode. He went around and switched off most of them at the wall and the result was far less electrical consumption.
How many other houses / workplaces are doing the same thing?

No, it wasn't. It was his hot water cylinder, most likely. I have a fuck ton of shit in the house on standby, the electricity meter turns very slowly when nothing but the stuff on standby is using power. It probably adds up to a few bucks per month altogether for everything that is on standby, but it definitely would not cause the meter to spin rapidly.

[pritch]

Yep. Turn the microwave off when it's not being used and you'll save over $100 a year.

Your microwave must be one of those that one of Trump's "best people", Kellyanne Conway said spies on its owners by filming and recording their conversations.

I too like to have options. I have a gas bottle I occasionally use for cooking, there is also a gas heater - when I get it fixed. A while back there were several days without water locally, both neighbours having kids had resorted to plan b - the river. I had not but was getting close.

[Swoop]

No, it wasn't. It was his hot water cylinder, most likely.
He accounted for that as well, since he was a bit of a nerd...
"Spinning rapidly" = more than necessary and was obvious when he passed the meter box - which was on the main entrance to the house so difficult to miss seeing. Switching off the standby and plugged in items did make a difference.

[Honest Andy]

What the hell are you old bastards talking about...?
Spinning meters????
Haven't seen one of those for years!

[russd7]

out of curiosity, what are peoples fixed line charges and cents/kwh,promt payment discounts and locations, all very well saying your power bilss are only x amount bit it means sfa without knowing how much you are actually paying
we are paying 21.17c/kw, 0.19c/kw electricity levy and 233.69cents fixed daily charge, and we get a 10% prompt payment discount.

so for 738kw used cost us $207.03 for 31 days.

i did the whole whats my number thing a while ago and it was quite interesting, the company that it came up with was not the best deal that could be got. it actually was only about the fourth best after getting on the phone and ringing the suppliers. the difference ranged between $10.00 and $40.00 for the same bill.
I rang our current supplier at the time and informed them that i was shopping around and gave them the opportunity to come up with their best offer which at the time was still about $15.00 dearer for the same account and it wasn't until we had changed suppliers that we got a call from their customer retention team offering us a better deal.

[Black Knight]

Jeez you are lucky-here in the Far North mine is 39.09cents/kwh-33.33cents day fixed charge and a bit for authority levy,all above plus GST-582 kwh over 30 days 273.93 less 10% PP

[oldrider]

They (Meridian) deliver reliably and instantly so I check and pay their bill - Instantly! :done:

[pete-blen]

my power bill very rearly goes over $100 a month...
in summer I have seen power bills below $80 a month..

gas hot water... around $30 every 3 weeks...
heat pump...

500 watts of solar panels ( 5 100watt / 36volt panels ) though a mains inverter
no batteys... panels surply the power directly into the house system
reduceing the amount of power being drawn from the mains...

simple maintaince free.... you forget they are there... no
battreys to look after or replace... the inverter can handle
up to 2000 watts of panels so I can just keep adding panels..


you can set a useable system up for a $1000....



..

[pritch]

so for 738kw used cost us $207.03 for 31 days.


There's not much that I can compare, too many different headings. It's a smart meter, maybe it needs a smart bastard to understand it. As I read the last bill though 337kWh cost $131.86. Hopefully we're over the peak and on a down trend to summer. It dipped under $70.00 in February.

I don't have gas connected but I do plan on burning some charcoal during daylight saving - which is coming soon. :drinkup:

[BMWST?]

One thing I will add, is that I've found it beneficial to have multiple energy sources available. Ideally I'd like to also have gas and at least one form of solid fuel burner in a property, so you can juggle between them somewhat depending on price and availability. Like when I had the big place, when I was too busy to cut firewood then power/gas bills weren't a problem anyway, but if I had time then dropping a big gum tree and cutting it up saved heaps and was a great workout.

All of the extra systems do cost more to build though.

PS: I like pellet burners, but I don't like the price of the pellets, maybe there's a lack of suppliers, whatever, the price is higher than I think it should be. (Sound familiar?). One of my many pet plans is to make a pellet maker. They're not hard if You've got the gear. Could even sell them to pensioners with access to treewood wanting to supply their neighbours as a cash based pension stretching business.

I have a pellet burner.The cheapest i have found locally is Bunnings have 20 kg bags for $13.50 ea

[Ocean1]

I have a pellet burner.The cheapest i have found locally is Bunnings have 20 kg bags for $13.50 ea

Sounds pretty reasonable. When I was looking at them the price of pellets was pretty obviously the only reason pellet burners weren't out-competing everything else on straight $/KWh. Which, in a country blessed with lots of pine trees was ridiculous. In Canada, where they originated pellets were about a quarter the price.

I don't think there were too many commercial pellet makers around then, and a machine is too expensive for a single home, so I was looking into a smaller, simpler design. Would still have been too expensive for individual use, but would have been a good option for me then because I had both the engineering capacity and lots of gum trees. :niceone:

Interestingly, they're also pretty environmentally sound, considering the source of the fuel.

[Grumph]

Pellet burners don't seem to have taken off down here. I only know one person with one of them - and he's on here too.

A couple of guys I knew in Timaru had set up a machine to produce wood pellets for cat dirt box use. Naturally scented and absorbent.
When they moved out of the district, I was offered the pellet machine. Too dear for me then and now.
Not an option now anyway as I'm forbidden to use a chainsaw. Rotating magnet magneto interferes with the pacemaker apparently...