To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Buells.

[Mr. Peanut]

The design is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the torque will go over a typical squid's head.

There's also Eric's holistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his motorcycle creations his personal philosophy draws heavily from the minimalism of Marcus Aurelius, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these air cooled powerplants, to realise that they're not just vibratory- they say something deep about usable power.

As a consequence people who dislike Buell truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the parsimony in a 45° transversely mounted V-twin with an idle that is best described by the onomatopoeia "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons.

I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Eric Buell's genius wit unfolds itself on the reflection of their buyer remorce induced tears. What fools.. how I pity them.

[Oakie]

Too many big words for KB.

[AllanB]

Yep - so friggen good that you can't go down to your local Buell stockist and buy a new one.

And there was this gem ....

[Oakie]

It looks backwards.

[Laava]

The design is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the torque will go over a typical squid's head.

There's also Eric's holistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his motorcycle creations his personal philosophy draws heavily from the minimalism of Marcus Aurelius, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these air cooled powerplants, to realise that they're not just vibratory- they say something deep about usable power.

As a consequence people who dislike Buell truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the parsimony in a 45° transversely mounted V-twin with an idle that is best described by the onomatopoeia "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons.

I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Eric Buell's genius wit unfolds itself on the reflection of their buyer remorce induced tears. What fools.. how I pity them.

Don't talk to me about sophistication, I've been to Bulls!

[Navy Boy]

Wellington Motorcycles had a nice looking Ulysses in recently.

I was strangely tempted... Perhaps my inner intellect making its presence known???

[Voltaire]

Upon seeing a glowing review I too looked at Buells on TM.

Alas to my eyes the budget was spent on engineering and none left for styling.

[Katman]

I've never understood the fascination.

[sidecar bob]

Wellington Motorcycles had a nice looking Ulysses in recently.


How did those three words end up in the same sentence?
And what's with those electric fans that sound like a jet engine?
Didn't they even lift the bonnet of a 2002 BMW to see how to design a high speed quiet fan blade?

[pritch]

Upon seeing a glowing review I too looked at Buells on TM.



Ah yes, that reminds me of a road test I read once. It started out somewhat like this.

I'm standing at the petrol station looking at the Ducati wondering why it won't start. But that's OK I'm used to this, I just road tested a Buell.

[Scubbo]

the XB9/12s' are interesting for the unconventionality of them

[Laava]

The 1125 I had was pretty exciting when you cracked the throttle and the noise it made was just awesome...

[Ocean1]

Fuck, I must be a chenius, I've had 5 of the fuckers!

Along with most of the flaws.

By the numbers the SDR is a better bike than any of them, but I'll tell you what I reckon I my apex speeds were faster on the XB12R I had.

[Grumph]

I'm not a great fan of his bikes - but can anyone tell me if he's any good as a guitarist ?

Released an album under the name Erik Buell and the Thunderbolts...

[Madness]

It looks backwards.

And twitchy as fuck.

[pritch]

but I'll tell you what I reckon I my apex speeds were faster on the XB12R I had.

BIKE magazine did one of those winter slow-season argument articles about the best cornering bike of all time. It's over a decade now since I read it, but I seem to recall the Buell won ahead of the Aprilia 250.

[Navy Boy]

BIKE magazine did one of those winter slow-season argument articles about the best cornering bike of all time. It's over a decade now since I read it, but I seem to recall the Buell won ahead of the Aprilia 250.

'tis true. I remember reading it at the time. For an engineering geek such as myself I was was always fascinated by Buell's engineering-led approach to bike design. It's a shame the plug was pulled when it was...

[rastuscat]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

[Grumph]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

Because with more weight concentrated at the rim, centripedal force is higher and there's more resistance to direction changes.
The conventional layout while not ideal, at least has as much mass as possible concentrated as close as possible to the rotational center.

[Ocean1]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

They weren't any better than normal brakes for a road bike, sub-par for track work and to get the best from them you needed decent aftermarket pads.

The advantage was in the maybe 10kg lower unsprung weight. That, the snappy steering head angle and the huge frame rigidity makes for most of what people perceive as very crisp handling.

[Ocean1]

Because with more weight concentrated at the rim, centripedal force is higher and there's more resistance to direction changes.
The conventional layout while not ideal, at least has as much mass as possible concentrated as close as possible to the rotational center.

But there's only one of them, I reckon the effect would be about the same as the pair of big fuckoff Brembos on the SDR, and much lighter. When I got the 1125 the thing most people boggled at after the radiator pods was the 8 pot caliper. :laugh:

The biggest issue with them is the extra surface speed, there was simply not the pad material development the conventional rigs benefited from. I had mine actually perceptibly glowing a dull red at the end of the back straight at Manfeild, it remained dark blue from there on.

[Grumph]

I've seen it suggested that the sheer weight of the Buells tended to mask the reluctance to turn at speed - and the quick geometry helped too.
The same brake type on a lightweight bike apparently shows it up quite markedly.

[Ocean1]

I've seen it suggested that the sheer weight of the Buells tended to mask the reluctance to turn at speed - and the quick geometry helped too.
The same brake type on a lightweight bike apparently shows it up quite markedly.

174Kg from memory, about 20Kg lighter than the SDR. Not difficult to see how it was done: count the components, Buell is obviously a Colin Chapman disciple. And yes, I don't think there's any way the SDR would wear the Buell geometry, I think it'd just push the front.

I found the big negative for the 1125 on a track was the aerodynamics, the front got scary light at speed.

[husaberg]

Yep - so friggen good that you can't go down to your local Buell stockist and buy a new one.

And there was this gem ....
underneath that ugly bodywork was a rather nice XR1000 engine

[AllanB]

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

If they were the bees-knees the racing world would have adopted them.

[husaberg]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?


If they were the bees-knees the racing world would have adopted them.
Brittens direct mount to spokes was better. although a bit like a rehashed VFR or CBR 1986 Yahaha sort of rediscovered it in the mid 2000's
https://www.motorcyclemojo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/brake-detail_5387.jpg
https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/331267028635_/Honda-CBR600F-CBR600-F-Jelly-Mould-1987-1990-Front.jpghttps://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2490/1838/products/12_e77cda85-7be7-43b6-b343-7a7abc2dd26e_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1510345588

[pritch]

This discussion of alternative technical solutions is a sad reminder of what a stunning disappointment Moto2 has been. The formula was for a control engine and pretty much unlimited anything else. Presumably though the teams didn't want to scare the sponsors away so there was zero innovation. The result being what is technically the least interesting class.

[Cosmik de Bris]

Because with more weight concentrated at the rim, centripedal force is higher and there's more resistance to direction changes.
The conventional layout while not ideal, at least has as much mass as possible concentrated as close as possible to the rotational center.

I seem to remember reading about an MV Agusta race bike that they developed for Agostini which used the wheel rim as the disc and had the calipers like a push bike. I think that Agostini said it reminded him of a push bike and was not impressed.

Cheers

[Navy Boy]

Rode a Ulysses once. Interesting ride. Eric was a tragic genius.

Those radial mounted disc brakes totally made sense. So why didn't the idea take off?

Like a number of good ideas (Remember the slow-selling Yamaha GTS1000?) the harsh reality of the bike market is that new ideas aren't enough on their own. They have to have a tangible (Normally financially beneficial) aspect to them as well. For all our desire to be seen as being individual and standing out from the crowd bikers are a surprisingly conservative bunch when it comes to such matters.

Of course the Ulysses and the GTS1000 had other issues/factors which played their part in ensuring that they weren't a lasting success. Price and weight being just 2, plus dubious build quality in Buell's case, however the basic premise that bikers are reluctant to change remains.

I remember looking at a new Firebolt and being sorely tempted back in the day... Perhaps I should have been braver and given it a try??? :rolleyes:

[husaberg]

I seem to remember reading about an MV Agusta race bike that they developed for Agostini which used the wheel rim as the disc and had the calipers like a push bike. I think that Agostini said it reminded him of a push bike and was not impressed.

Cheers

Some early Honda GP bikes the 50 twins i think had those.
339022339023339024339025

Some even had brake drums i guess for cooling
339026

[Ocean1]

This discussion of alternative technical solutions is a sad reminder of what a stunning disappointment Moto2 has been. The formula was for a control engine and pretty much unlimited anything else. Presumably though the teams didn't want to scare the sponsors away so there was zero innovation. The result being what is technically the least interesting class.

Aye, but even if the purpose of bike racing in general isn't overtly to sell bikes there's still a huge marketing influence on race bike design, there's just no way engineers get free reign to make shit that doesn't look very similar to what's on the shop floor. Buells weren't even race bikes, and they suffered from the same effect: if it ain't what major producers are putting on their top end bikes it can't possibly be any good.

I'd go so far as to say that ALL production bike design is purely market driven, which is all about apparent performance and fuck all about progressing actual design improvement. It's far easier to convince buyers your bike's cutting edge than to actually make it so. Fucking sight less risky too.

[Stylo]

Aye, but even if the purpose of bike racing in general isn't overtly to sell bikes there's still a huge marketing influence on race bike design, there's just no way engineers get free reign to make shit that doesn't look very similar to what's on the shop floor. Buells weren't even race bikes, and they suffered from the same effect: if it ain't what major producers are putting on their top end bikes it can't possibly be any good.

I'd go so far as to say that ALL production bike design is purely market driven, which is all about apparent performance and fuck all about progressing actual design improvement. It's far easier to convince buyers your bike's cutting edge than to actually make it so. Fucking sight less risky too.

Suzuki knew that when they bought out the Hayabusa.

Ugliest bike I'd ever seen when I first saw the gold model in the late '90's. Not a beauty contest winner but, who cares. I'm on my third 'Busa now. They seem to go Ok...

[AllanB]

Ugliest bike I'd ever seen when I first saw the gold model in the late '90's. Not a beauty contest winner but, who cares. I'm on my third 'Busa now. They seem to go Ok...

Still fuggly though! And ironically that fugglyness has become iconic. See a Busa - immediate respect to the rider. Probably undeserved now days with the current crowd of ultra-hyper bikes.

Pretty sure I've read a new Busa is due next year - 20th anniversary and all. I kind of hope for a significant but radical styling change.

[Ocean1]

Suzuki knew that when they bought out the Hayabusa.

Ugliest bike I'd ever seen when I first saw the gold model in the late '90's. Not a beauty contest winner but, who cares. I'm on my third 'Busa now. They seem to go Ok...

They obviously didn't have if fully sussed, the Hayabusa is aerodynamically bloody good, the fact that it's considered ugly is a great indication that when it comes to design, functional merit isn't necessarily innately attractive to yer average punter.

Yer later, stylistically popular and aerodynamically tragic machines are far more financially successful.

And don't get me started on the two wheeled version of "how much we can spend on blue teethed cup holder design" that is the 'venture bike market...

[Fresh Oats]

I'm not sure about the looks of Buells, not really my thing but some of these custom Buells... damn.
This thing for example is sexy as fuuuuuuuck.

http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/buell-blast-custom-1.jpg

http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/buell-blast-custom.jpg

[pritch]

A perfect example of the old adage, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Having seen that I now have to find the Optrex.

[jellywrestler]

Suzuki knew that when they bought out the Hayabusa.

Ugliest bike I'd ever seen when I first saw the gold model in the late '90's..

they look like an anus that's just retired from the porn industry to me.

[Laava]

I'm not sure about the looks of Buells, not really my thing but some of these custom Buells... damn.
This thing for example is sexy as fuuuuuuuck.

httpbuell-blast-custom-1.jpg

http:/buell-blast-custom.jpg

Wouldn't want to hit a pothole with that front end!

[OddDuck]

Wouldn't want to hit a pothole with that front end!

+1.

Isn't the Blast the one which Eric was so pissed off with that he had them cubed and you could purchase them as coffee tables?

[AllanB]

+1.

Isn't the Blast the one which Eric was so pissed off with that he had them cubed and you could purchase them as coffee tables?

I'm pretty sure he was doing a buy back scheme in the USA and destroying them.

[Laava]

I have heard that they are fun to ride, but honestly, people say that about anything quirky. The Blast is half a sporty motor, what were they thinking?

[Ocean1]

I have heard that they are fun to ride, but honestly, people say that about anything quirky. The Blast is half a sporty motor, what were they thinking?

HD were thinking "We need an entry level model, for wimmen and poofs, and we're far too busy "refocusing on core business" like the govt said we had to in that post-GFC bail-out, let's throw that clever cunt EB under that bus, eh?

[pritch]

The Blast wasn't the first product to feature half of a better known V twin. Vincent did 500 singles on a similar theme: Comet, Grey Flash etc . One such launched a certain John Surtees on a successful racing career, although it's not easy to envisage a Blast launching anything much.

[pete376403]

The Blast wasn't the first product to feature half of a better known V twin. Vincent did 500 singles on a similar theme: Comet, Grey Flash etc . One such launched a certain John Surtees on a successful racing career, although it's not easy to envisage a Blast launching anything much.

I read that the Vincent went the other way, ie started as a single and Phil Irving overlapped a couple of engine schematics and noticed the cam timing gears would work equally well for two cylinders.

[pritch]

I read that the Vincent went the other way, ie started as a single

Having now read it up I see you are indeed correct. :yes: