Race fuel in the S.I.

[Grumph]

For those who haven't noticed, NPD, a new petroleum distributor has opened - in short order - service stations in the SI from Blenheim to Invercargill.

And they sell what they call 100Plus - a 100 octane, unleaded, non ethanol road legal fuel.

It doesn't appear to be avgas as they state it's their own blend.

But best of all - for some of us - they give a discount on presentation of the gold card. Pensioner Racing lives !!!

[FJRider]

They have a NEW station at Lake Waihola. A 24 hour fuel availability. A huge forecourt with plenty of overhead clearance and clear views of the main highway in both directions.

[Grumph]

Two of the three in and around Chch are new builds. Rolleston and Moorhouse Ave. I've not visited the third down Port Hills Rd yet.
The Rolleston one at the entrance to the Iport has a huge truck refuelling setup 100m down the road.

They're spending money. The SI answer to Gull who won't come down here.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was thinking about this today as it happens. If my bike runs perfectly well on liquid gold (248.9 cpl I noticed on the way home) why would I want or use higher octane fuel - doesnt my engine need to "need" the extra oomph? Like because it has higher compression or hotrod valve timing (whatever that might be)... someone will know.

[onearmedbandit]

I was thinking about this today as it happens. If my bike runs perfectly well on liquid gold (248.9 cpl I noticed on the way home) why would I want or use higher octane fuel - doesnt my engine need to "need" the extra oomph? Like because it has higher compression or hotrod valve timing (whatever that might be)... someone will know.

Pretty much this. Sometimes there are slight economy improvements but unless your engine is tuned for it there are no power gains to be had.

[jasonu]

But best of all - for some of us - they give a discount on presentation of the gold card. Pensioner Racing lives !!!

Old people get all the breaks.

[Grumph]

Old people get all the breaks.

Only when we fall over....

[sidecar bob]

Might be worth getting that stuff tested prior to a superbike competitor failing a fuel test at nationals like has happened in recent years with high octane pump gas.

[Grumph]

Might be worth getting that stuff tested prior to a superbike competitor failing a fuel test at nationals like has happened in recent years with high octane pump gas.

Can be done. If it hasn't been done at a MCI day, the usual CAMS scrutineer for the SCF doubles as the tech steward for the nationals. Should have the fuel testing gear with him.

edit - and his comments on those who were trying to pass E80 off as E15 pump fuel were amusing to listen to....

[sidecar bob]

Can be done. If it hasn't been done at a MCI day, the usual CAMS scrutineer for the SCF doubles as the tech steward for the nationals. Should have the fuel testing gear with him.

edit - and his comments on those who were trying to pass E80 off as E15 pump fuel were amusing to listen to....
Testing would be greatly appreciated. If you could post the results up here sometime I will make sure it gets on to other media before the Nats kick off.

[Autech]

Can be done. If it hasn't been done at a MCI day, the usual CAMS scrutineer for the SCF doubles as the tech steward for the nationals. Should have the fuel testing gear with him.

Fuel testing gear? Lame, here I was imagining some old timer drinking it and making a judgement...

[Grumph]

Fuel testing gear? Lame, here I was imagining some old timer drinking it and making a judgement...

You're too young to have seen me testing Methanol brews for water content back in the day.

[HenryDorsetCase]

You're too young to have seen me testing Methanol brews for water content back in the day.

did it involve an open flame and the phrase "Hold my beer, I've got this"?

[WALRUS]

Is Avgas still allowed in racing over in NZ?

MA has been working on writing it out of our supp regs.

[husaberg]

Can be done. If it hasn't been done at a MCI day, the usual CAMS scrutineer for the SCF doubles as the tech steward for the nationals. Should have the fuel testing gear with him.

edit - and his comments on those who were trying to pass E80 off as E15 pump fuel were amusing to listen to....
The MDS should state the fuel make up.
Seeing as its low lead and no ethanol
I suspect its pushing high in toluene.

[Autech]

You're too young to have seen me testing Methanol brews for water content back in the day.

You still have a healthy beard so I'm guessing not much flame was involved.



I suspect its pushing high in toluene.

This is KB, eff off with ya big words! Now I have to google wtf toluene is!

[husaberg]

This is KB, eff off with ya big words! Now I have to google wtf toluene is!
Its a solvent most often used in paint thinners also used to make TNT
its an excellent fuel for turbo cars it was used in the 80's turbo F1 cars.
Plus its a cheap octane booster
I could only find one MSDS for NPD fuels, I think its the 96 octane fuel but it has 5-10% TOLUENE .
https://npd.co.nz/npdfuel/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/UnleadedPetrolMSDS.pdf

seems to be no fim limit on toluene though interesting
looks like it might fail under benzine though
https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/manual-of-motorcycle-sport/appendix-b---fuel-specifications-(off-road).pdf

[Autech]

Its a solvent most often used in paint thinners also used to make TNT
its an excellent fuel for turbo cars it was used in the 80's turbo F1 cars.
Plus its a cheap octane booster
I could only find one MSDS for NPD fuels, I think its the 96 octane fuel but it has 5-10% TOLUENE .
https://npd.co.nz/npdfuel/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/UnleadedPetrolMSDS.pdf

seems to be no fim limit on toluene though interesting
looks like it might fail under benzine though
https://www.mnz.co.nz/docs/default-source/manual-of-motorcycle-sport/appendix-b---fuel-specifications-(off-road).pdf

Apparently it's the good sniff too, that's the shit the solvent abusers dig


https://youtu.be/cV-4AErKpsU

[Grumph]

I'd be surprised if it's got Toluene in any quantity - it's not cheap. they don't advertise it as being suitable for Turbos specifically either.
They claim non metallic and organic "advanced formulation enhancers" so probably sodium salts as Shell used some years back.
What I do like is that it apparently has fuel stabilisers added for a long shelf life - very good for a fuel sold in small quantities.

All I'll say about testing meth for water content is that after a couple of seasons using the expensive to replace test kit, it was apparent that if a drop on the tongue tasted salty, it was going to test positive for a high water content. Saved money and time.

[Grumph]

Is Avgas still allowed in racing over in NZ?

MA has been working on writing it out of our supp regs.

Yes, that along with some other moves has been noticed over here. If they were serious about going green, the low lead 100 avgas would still be legal - as would Methanol - which has no lead at all.
And as for the regs on asbestos content in bikes imported to Oz, sheesh, mad.

[Autech]

I'd be surprised if it's got Toluene in any quantity - it's not cheap. they don't advertise it as being suitable for Turbos specifically either.
They claim non metallic and organic "advanced formulation enhancers" so probably sodium salts as Shell used some years back.
What I do like is that it apparently has fuel stabilisers added for a long shelf life - very good for a fuel sold in small quantities.

All I'll say about testing meth for water content is that after a couple of seasons using the expensive to replace test kit, it was apparent that if a drop on the tongue tasted salty, it was going to test positive for a high water content. Saved money and time.

According to Wiki the Aussie fuel companies were sneaking it in for a while:

In Australia in 2003, toluene was found to have been illegally combined with petrol in fuel outlets for sale as standard vehicular fuel. Toluene incurs no fuel excise tax, while other fuels are taxed at more than 40%, providing a greater profit margin for fuel suppliers. The extent of toluene substitution has not been determined.

What else would you expect from a nation founded by convicts I guess?

[husaberg]

I'd be surprised if it's got Toluene in any quantity - it's not cheap. they don't advertise it as being suitable for Turbos specifically either.
They claim non metallic and organic "advanced formulation enhancers" so probably sodium salts as Shell used some years back.
What I do like is that it apparently has fuel stabilisers added for a long shelf life - very good for a fuel sold in small quantities.

All I'll say about testing meth for water content is that after a couple of seasons using the expensive to replace test kit, it was apparent that if a drop on the tongue tasted salty, it was going to test positive for a high water content. Saved money and time.

Anyone intersting in what toluene does can look here
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/143661-Formula-5-question?p=1130197791#post1130197791
I would have thought you could workout the water content of Methaol with a simple hydrometer

he googles yip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8UL6zwKK58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RNyiktgUjI

[Grumph]

If it was straight methanol, yes a hydrometer would work. But most of the time it was Meth/petrol blends. You'd ask, "when did you mix this?" and get told - at Wanganui..So you'd point out that was a fortnight ago and it's been in a tank vented to atmosphere since - and you came down here in steady rain...

And in the 80's you couldn't buy 100% pure meth anyway. It came from the fuel companies who each had their own blend. Shell for instance had 5-8% white spirits. All had colouring agents. Aussie meth had 10% oil added...

Anyway, i've put the word out that there's something for the tech steward to test - if he hasn't done it already. If it's legal, great. It's been bloody annoying watching the NI competitors bring Gull cans South. If you want Gull in the SI you have to negotiate with a carrier to bring it. The listed local agents won't do it.

[Autech]

If it was straight methanol, yes a hydrometer would work. But most of the time it was Meth/petrol blends. You'd ask, "when did you mix this?" and get told - at Wanganui..So you'd point out that was a fortnight ago and it's been in a tank vented to atmosphere since - and you came down here in steady rain...

And in the 80's you couldn't buy 100% pure meth anyway. It came from the fuel companies who each had their own blend. Shell for instance had 5-8% white spirits. All had colouring agents. Aussie meth had 10% oil added...

Anyway, i've put the word out that there's something for the tech steward to test - if he hasn't done it already. If it's legal, great. It's been bloody annoying watching the NI competitors bring Gull cans South. If you want Gull in the SI you have to negotiate with a carrier to bring it. The listed local agents won't do it.Good fuel that Gull stuff :D

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[HenryDorsetCase]

If it was straight methanol, yes a hydrometer would work. But most of the time it was Meth/petrol blends. You'd ask, "when did you mix this?" and get told - at Wanganui..So you'd point out that was a fortnight ago and it's been in a tank vented to atmosphere since - and you came down here in steady rain...

And in the 80's you couldn't buy 100% pure meth anyway. It came from the fuel companies who each had their own blend. Shell for instance had 5-8% white spirits. All had colouring agents. Aussie meth had 10% oil added...

Anyway, i've put the word out that there's something for the tech steward to test - if he hasn't done it already. If it's legal, great. It's been bloody annoying watching the NI competitors bring Gull cans South. If you want Gull in the SI you have to negotiate with a carrier to bring it. The listed local agents won't do it.

Whats in Gull fuel that isnt in the liquid gold that comes from Z or Mobil?

I am learning at the feet of the masters here.

[Honest Andy]

Whats in Gull fuel that isnt in the liquid gold that comes from Z or Mobil?

beans......

[FJRider]

I found this with google ... Challenge Waimak LTD sells race fuel. (Apparently)

https://challengewaimak.co.nz/race-gas/

[Grumph]

I found this with google ... Challenge Waimak LTD sells race fuel. (Apparently)

https://challengewaimak.co.nz/race-gas/

Overage low lead avgas. Reputedly, the stuff sold at Ruapuna is fresher...

Gull has a higher ethanol content than the fuel sold in the SI. Some late injected motors reputedly like it better than avgas.
If it's the best pump fuel you can buy where you are in the NI, when you come South for the nationals you have to break several laws about the carriage of flammable substances. I said at the time that the fuel regs should specify the fuel used should be available NZ wide....

[husaberg]

Whats in Gull fuel that isnt in the liquid gold that comes from Z or Mobil?

I am learning at the feet of the masters here.
Gull had a 10% and i believe also a 85% ethanol mix. as "pump fuel"
It was only legal as it was pump fuel rather than what was in it.
Ethanol has a high octane and a high latent heat of evaporation.

[Autech]

Gull had a 10% and i believe also a 85% ethanol mix. as "pump fuel"
It was only legal as it was pump fuel rather than what was in it.
Ethanol has a high octane and a high latent heat of evaporation.Moar oxigens too right?

Gull 98 is the goods. We always found cars did well on it on the dyno, my current car loves it.

E85 if tuned on a good ecu with turbo goodness can make a lot more power than standard 98 pump gas.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[Grumph]

Might be worth getting that stuff tested prior to a superbike competitor failing a fuel test at nationals like has happened in recent years with high octane pump gas.

Testing underway shortly. On ALL their pump fuels too.

Results will go up on the MNZ site - and here when he rings me.

[husaberg]

.
Testing underway shortly. On ALL their pump fuels too.

Results will go up on the MNZ site - and here when he rings me.

Its intersting stuff it will be intersting to see wahat it comes back as i asumed NPD were just repackaged Mobil like Allied is.
Actually looking on their site the 91 and premeum octane is plain Mobil
https://npd.co.nz/npdfuel/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/UnleadedPetrolMSDS.pdf
Looking at mobil's site synergy 8000 was a new higher octane fuel only available at Wellington and Auckland.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0104/S00166/mobil-launches-new-fuels-in-new-zealand.htm

Mobil Launches New Fuels In New Zealand
Thursday, 26 April 2001, 11:29 am
Press Release: Mobil Oil New Zealand
Mobil Oil New Zealand today launches new fuel technology to the New Zealand market. Called Mobil Synergy, the new fuel range will completely replace all existing Mobil fuel lines.
Synergy 1000 replaces regular unleaded 91, Synergy 6000 replaces unleaded 96, and Synergy Diesel replaces Mobil diesel. Mobil is also introducing a new high-octane, premium fuel, Synergy 8000
From today, the new Synergy fuels slate will be pumping from 133 of Mobil’s 550 nationwide sites. The new high-octane premium fuel, Synergy 8000, will be available only at selected Auckland and Wellington sites.
Phases two and three of the launch programme, rolling out during April, May and June this year, will complete Mobil’s national changeover to the new Synergy range.
Although Synergy is a global initiative, the Synergy fuels being launched here in New Zealand are unique. They have been specifically selected for New Zealand conditions to enhance local motorists’ driving experiences,” says Mr Heng.
“Synergy 8000 will be the highest-octane rating fuel available to local motorists, aligning New Zealand more with European markets, where high-performance fuels are widely available.
“Synergy 8000 is particularly exciting for us. I know the launch is welcomed by New Zealand drivers of high performance vehicles, " says Mr Heng.
i supect this is the 100 octane fuel., Athough it might just be ll100 avgas

Oh it looks like Hokitika has the 100 octane on pump.
looking at McKeown site they are just using unbranded Caltex fuels.

[Grumph]

The NPD 100Plus is a pale red so I'd doubt if it's LL100 avgas.

Told today it matches the figures for 100 avgas so legal in classes where avgas is permitted.

[husaberg]

The NPD 100Plus is a pale red so I'd doubt if it's LL100 avgas.

Told today it matches the figures for 100 avgas so legal in classes where avgas is permitted.

Looking at the figures i can find on the net from Mobil it looks like it has at least 10% tolulene and a fair smack of xylene about 5% and about 5% benzine
it looks like they also have a similar octane available in parts of NZ that is 10% ethanol and 20% toluene 1% benzine.
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/SearchResults.aspx

Bloody intersting that the 100 octane mobil has been avaliable in the Auckland and Wellington for 16 years though.

[russd7]

.

Its intersting stuff it will be intersting to see wahat it comes back as i asumed NPD were just repackaged Mobil like Allied is.
Actually looking on their site the 91 and premeum octane is plain Mobil
https://npd.co.nz/npdfuel/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/UnleadedPetrolMSDS.pdf
Looking at mobil's site synergy 8000 was a new higher octane fuel only available at Wellington and Auckland.

i supect this is the 100 octane fuel., Athough it might just be ll100 avgas

Oh it looks like Hokitika has the 100 octane on pump.
looking at McKeown site they are just using unbranded Caltex fuels.

Mckeown used to be Mobil but as i understand it they had a fairly serious falling out quite a few years ago so they jumped ship to caltex.

NPD in Mossburn has the 100 octane at pump and i filled the tank of the ZZR up on saturday with it, not sure if it was just the day or the fuel but the old girl just wanted to run, and run she did between Mossburn and wreys bush before i could slow her down, it crossed my mind that it is an awful long walk from wreys bush to riverton and i do know the local plod enjoy a jaunt in the countryside as well. must say it was fun tho :innocent:

[Grumph]

I was pleased when I saw they had a station in Invers. Got tired of taking good fuel to the Burt when I was still doing it.

[russd7]

I was pleased when I saw they had a station in Invers. Got tired of taking good fuel to the Burt when I was still doing it.

yeah, we didn't even get the BP 98 down here, but thanx to NPD we now have some of the cheapest fuel in the country. can't complain about that though if one does go to NPD there is often quite a queue, but what it has done is brought the other fuel stations in invers down. gotta love competition.

[malcy25]

Grumph, how’s things!

Quick question on NPD 100 plus. Do You know Has anyone had any in bike experience on two strokes as a replacement for 100LL?

[Grumph]

I know it's being used. i don't know if any jetting or ignition changes are needed.
Reading Wob in ESE, I suspect that like the FIM unleaded, it's tolerant of advance.

I'd ask on there - he'd be better placed to tell you what needs to change. AFAIK it's identical to the FIM unleaded.
Well - meets the same specs anyway.

[malcy25]

I know it's being used. i don't know if any jetting or ignition changes are needed.
Reading Wob in ESE, I suspect that like the FIM unleaded, it's tolerant of advance.

I'd ask on there - he'd be better placed to tell you what needs to change. AFAIK it's identical to the FIM unleaded.
Well - meets the same specs anyway.
Ta, I drop Wob a message. Haven’t spoken to him for a while.