1997 Hornet CB250

[mnishi]

Hello, new to this so need some help here please.

I have got a 1997 Honda Hornet CB250 which doesn't start at present. It has been sitting for over a year. When I try starting the bike, it doesn't start? and I noticed that the coolant overflow was bubbling so thought I'd check the coolant.

I drained the coolant, and it was brown. So assuming that there is a block somewhere/screwed engine? Assuming the head gasket or something may need replacing too. I have read in a few places to perform a coolant flush (50/50 mixture of vinegar and water) but because the bike doesn't start, how would this work?

In terms of the bike itself starting, I have thought to change the spark plugs, (complete the coolant flush, somehow), change oil and oil filter, put a new battery in and then see how it goes from there.

So basically wanting some help as to what I can do to diagnose this and get the engine at least running?

If you need more details, please let me know.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks!

[Delerium]

Hello, new to this so need some help here please.

I have got a 1997 Honda Hornet CB250 which doesn't start at present. It has been sitting for over a year. When I try starting the bike, it doesn't start? and I noticed that the coolant overflow was bubbling so thought I'd check the coolant.

I drained the coolant, and it was brown. So assuming that there is a block somewhere/screwed engine? Assuming the head gasket or something may need replacing too. I have read in a few places to perform a coolant flush (50/50 mixture of vinegar and water) but because the bike doesn't start, how would this work?

In terms of the bike itself starting, I have thought to change the spark plugs, (complete the coolant flush, somehow), change oil and oil filter, put a new battery in and then see how it goes from there.

So basically wanting some help as to what I can do to diagnose this and get the engine at least running?

If you need more details, please let me know.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks!
I'd change the fuel and oil as well. Unsure on that particular bike. But on mine I can drain all coolant (it's at the lowest point of the system).

Refill with distilled water for flush. Changing fuel might be enough to get it going. Brown coolant may just be start of corrosion.

[mnishi]

Thanks man! Appreciate it.

I did change the fuel but doesn't seem to want to crank over.

I did use vinegar and water solution and just poured through the radiator cap, and it did come out clean. But of course, not running the engine means its not actually flushing the entire cooling system. Any suggestions to mitigate this?

Thank you for your help.

[F5 Dave]

Get the thing running and worry about the coolant if you want to run it for more than a min. At which point it would be good to take the thermostat out and run a hose in both directions till it runs close to clean then refill with coolant. Not totally uncommon.

Ok so what do you mean by won't crank over? Try jumper leads and a squirt of engine start if that doesn't help.

[actungbaby]

Just suggestion from my own mistakes. Hold off jumping in spending on oil battery.spark plugs. Anything really. Drain oil check for metal water in the oil.
You know. If you need head gasket. Price up your parts. Head gasket base gasket. Been told best change that with head gasket.but thats your call.work out when u can afford what u need. Leave taking apart so u remember order of things.u might well get head looked at at engine engineer. Can have valve seats cleaned up. Its up to you but costs u more in long run. Esp buy battery and left un charged. Wish u the best sure be cool bike.
Cbr 250,s are like mini gp bike from 60,s rev to crazy revs

Sent from my SOV31 using Tapatalk

[actungbaby]

Oh get piece flat carboard push head bolts through so you know where each went.i also take photos with my phone. Where cables go. Engine layout etc.
Dont be afraid ask questions.

Sent from my SOV31 using Tapatalk

[AllanB]

So it turns over on the electric starter but does not fire up?

Ignore the coolant until it gets running. Just put water in it until you have it running. No point wasting money on coolant if she won;t go.

Have you got spark?

Good fuel?

You need both to go bang.

Oh - check the air cleaner - who knows maybe there is a family of mice nesting in the air box stopping any air getting into the carbs. Shit happens.

[mnishi]

Thanks guys! Very helpful stuff. I did drain the oil, and found no metal. Just dark brown oil really. Also drained the coolant. I changed the spark plugs and tested them for spark and they all seem to have spark. I also drained the old fuel and put some new fuel in, still, nothing.

I suspected that there was an oil leak and a fairly certain there is. So currently taking the engine out so I can replace a the gasket.

Oh, also need to note that I took out the carbs so they too will be cleaned soon!

The air filter seems new, in real tidy condition.

Aside from this, any other suggestions?

[mnishi]

Oh get piece flat carboard push head bolts through so you know where each went.i also take photos with my phone. Where cables go. Engine layout etc.
Dont be afraid ask questions.

Sent from my SOV31 using Tapatalk

That’s some great tips. Loving the idea of a cardboard!!!

[actungbaby]

Wasint my idea i noticed local engine reconditioning place does it too. Must seen on you tube video. I look at those too search cbr 250 head gasket somone will have something on there.

Sent from my SOV31 using Tapatalk

[WALRUS]

These run the same engine as an MC19, don't they?

I know the 19's and 22's have mostly had pretty hard lives, having most of them being spent with teenagers atop them, thrashing them hither and dither.

When I was last rebuilding the engines for my MC19 track bikes, I found that Webike and Wemoto were valuable resources for finding parts, gasket kits, etc etc. If that's the way things end up going, I suggest checking them out.

[mnishi]

These run the same engine as an MC19, don't they?

I know the 19's and 22's have mostly had pretty hard lives, having most of them being spent with teenagers atop them, thrashing them hither and dither.

When I was last rebuilding the engines for my MC19 track bikes, I found that Webike and Wemoto were valuable resources for finding parts, gasket kits, etc etc. If that's the way things end up going, I suggest checking them out.




That's great. Thanks a lot for that. Since I have decided to take off the engine, I will do a complete re-build.

Although not a mechanic myself, will be following some youtube tutorials and the owners manual for some tips.

Aside from this, is there anything I should be aware of? Of course not just as simple as taking a few bolts off, and taking the old seal on and chucking a new one one - any other recommendations?

And yes, MC19 all the day. Lovely high revving motors :)

[AllanB]

Have you checked fuel is actually getting into the carbs? It may be a simple blocked line, fuel filter or similar.

[mnishi]

Have you checked fuel is actually getting into the carbs? It may be a simple blocked line, fuel filter or similar.

Yes, the fuel is flowing.

[OddDuck]

That's great. Thanks a lot for that. Since I have decided to take off the engine, I will do a complete re-build.

Although not a mechanic myself, will be following some youtube tutorials and the owners manual for some tips.

Aside from this, is there anything I should be aware of? Of course not just as simple as taking a few bolts off, and taking the old seal on and chucking a new one one - any other recommendations?

And yes, MC19 all the day. Lovely high revving motors :)

Engine rebuild - OK, here's a few quick ideas, no particular order:

Cash is easy to run out of when doing this work, strongly suggest buying tools as the need arises, not trying to guess what you'll need in advance. There'll be a lot of trips back and forth but if cash runs out then the job stops.

6 point sockets are best unless you're dealing with a 12-point fastener. If a 1/2 inch format socket is a bit too big in a cramped area you'll need to run a few 3/8ths sockets and accessories. If the socket won't fit square then stop the job and go shopping, no matter how annoying it is. A ripped up bolt will hold you for a whole afternoon.

CRC / WD40 / PB Blaster - this stuff works but has to soak in and that takes time. Spray the jammed fastener and then give it an hour at least (three is better) before trying to undo anything.

Ziplock bags (Lots of, range of sizes, Stationary Warehouse) for fastener groups and parts. Cardboard works very well for bolt arrangements as discussed earlier. Oiled parts like camshafts need to be in sealed bags or else the oil will evaporate off (if it's apart for months) and then they'll rust.

Labels. Label everything!!

Photos. As above. I've found I get the best results from avoiding flash, that means long exposures and therefore a tripod, see how you go of course.

Storage boxes. Storage space i.e. under the house... the bike's volume is going to expand dramatically as it comes to bits, get things off it and straight into storage, don't litter the work area and make yourself an obstacle course.

Lighting. Make sure you've got good lighting. I painted my garage walls white and put in 6 overhead lights; it's made an incredible difference to what was a cave.

Torque wrench, get one if you haven't already. Some of the cheaper brands (Bahco, Toledo) are actually OK but I'd avoid Kinchrome, if unsure ask around or here.

Fasteners to be torqued: they should spin together to closing by finger and thumb. If they don't then you aren't going to get accurate torques. You may need taps to clean up female threads, male threads can generally be cleaned up with a brass wire brush.

If the manual says to use Loctite, well, that's there for good reason...

Degreaser is good. I've had a good run with the 30 Seconds Automotive stuff (white jerrycan, red fluid, mix with water and give it a few minutes before using). Everyone's got their own preferences.

Impact driver: you will almost certainly need one of these, and a bench with a vise with soft grip jaws, to get the carburettors apart. The screw heads on these are made of very soft steel and have to be treated with great care, a normal screwdriver is quite likely to tear these up.

You can purchase sockets and extension bars, drivers etc individually as you need them, that saves a lot of coin. M10 offer that option these days, it's also possible to do this at places like Repco, Twigg's, Trade Tools, etc etc.

Measuring gear - I've found a good set of feeler gauges, a manual set of vernier calipers, and a 0 to 25mm micrometer invaluable when doing engine work. If you're checking gudgeon pins, pistons and bores you may need transfer gauges and 25 -50, 50 - 75 micrometers etc. Good brands: Mitutoyo, Insize. Stanley is OK only (they do feeler gauges at least) and actively avoid Kinchrome, particularly the digital vernier calipers. They look the business and they're easy to buy but they're awful. Web orders through Trade Tools have worked for me, see how you go.

I imagine that's way more than enough for now... the main bit of advice I'd offer is take it step by step, take your time, never hurry or take on too much at once and you'll get there.

[mnishi]

Engine rebuild - OK, here's a few quick ideas, no particular order:

Cash is easy to run out of when doing this work, strongly suggest buying tools as the need arises, not trying to guess what you'll need in advance. There'll be a lot of trips back and forth but if cash runs out then the job stops.

6 point sockets are best unless you're dealing with a 12-point fastener. If a 1/2 inch format socket is a bit too big in a cramped area you'll need to run a few 3/8ths sockets and accessories. If the socket won't fit square then stop the job and go shopping, no matter how annoying it is. A ripped up bolt will hold you for a whole afternoon.

CRC / WD40 / PB Blaster - this stuff works but has to soak in and that takes time. Spray the jammed fastener and then give it an hour at least (three is better) before trying to undo anything.

Ziplock bags (Lots of, range of sizes, Stationary Warehouse) for fastener groups and parts. Cardboard works very well for bolt arrangements as discussed earlier. Oiled parts like camshafts need to be in sealed bags or else the oil will evaporate off (if it's apart for months) and then they'll rust.

Labels. Label everything!!

Photos. As above. I've found I get the best results from avoiding flash, that means long exposures and therefore a tripod, see how you go of course.

Storage boxes. Storage space i.e. under the house... the bike's volume is going to expand dramatically as it comes to bits, get things off it and straight into storage, don't litter the work area and make yourself an obstacle course.

Lighting. Make sure you've got good lighting. I painted my garage walls white and put in 6 overhead lights; it's made an incredible difference to what was a cave.

Torque wrench, get one if you haven't already. Some of the cheaper brands (Bahco, Toledo) are actually OK but I'd avoid Kinchrome, if unsure ask around or here.

Fasteners to be torqued: they should spin together to closing by finger and thumb. If they don't then you aren't going to get accurate torques. You may need taps to clean up female threads, male threads can generally be cleaned up with a brass wire brush.

If the manual says to use Loctite, well, that's there for good reason...

Degreaser is good. I've had a good run with the 30 Seconds Automotive stuff (white jerrycan, red fluid, mix with water and give it a few minutes before using). Everyone's got their own preferences.

Impact driver: you will almost certainly need one of these, and a bench with a vise with soft grip jaws, to get the carburettors apart. The screw heads on these are made of very soft steel and have to be treated with great care, a normal screwdriver is quite likely to tear these up.

You can purchase sockets and extension bars, drivers etc individually as you need them, that saves a lot of coin. M10 offer that option these days, it's also possible to do this at places like Repco, Twigg's, Trade Tools, etc etc.

Measuring gear - I've found a good set of feeler gauges, a manual set of vernier calipers, and a 0 to 25mm micrometer invaluable when doing engine work. If you're checking gudgeon pins, pistons and bores you may need transfer gauges and 25 -50, 50 - 75 micrometers etc. Good brands: Mitutoyo, Insize. Stanley is OK only (they do feeler gauges at least) and actively avoid Kinchrome, particularly the digital vernier calipers. They look the business and they're easy to buy but they're awful. Web orders through Trade Tools have worked for me, see how you go.

I imagine that's way more than enough for now... the main bit of advice I'd offer is take it step by step, take your time, never hurry or take on too much at once and you'll get there.

Excellent stuff, highly appreciate it.

Just wondered, when opening the head of the engine to change the gasket, do I need to get a compression test done or something after this? I assume it is not easy as just opening the bolts that hold the head in, and then removing the seal and placing the new seal on?

In terms of tools, luckily I have a good friend who has a lot of tools, being a mechanic himself so will most likely grab a few tools off of him (ones that I wouldn't usually need or ones that are not worth the spend at this stage).

At present, the air filter is off, the carbs are out and I've taken off the battery and all the electrical stuff from the engine. All that's left to do is take off the nuts holding the engine to the frame and the engine should come off.

Do you think it is safe to leave the carbs out for 2-3 weeks? I plan to have this finished by the end of November, so wanting to take things REALLY slow, although in two weeks I will be able to commit a lot of time to this, however some parts may need shipping internationally so may slow the process down.

p.s. is there an option to add photos to this? would be cool to keep you guys updated :)

[WALRUS]

Oh yeah, to get the cylinder head off you'll need a VERY specific socket for TWO of the bolts.. I'll see if I can grab you a picture of what it is when I get home from work tonight.

[mnishi]

Oh yeah, to get the cylinder head off you'll need a VERY specific socket for TWO of the bolts.. I'll see if I can grab you a picture of what it is when I get home from work tonight.

Thank you!!!

[OddDuck]

Head gasket: the compression test confirms that you've done it right, but so will running the engine. It's more important to correctly prepare the surfaces of the cylinder barrel and the head, then correctly torque the head bolts. There will be a procedure listed for this in the manual and your friend will have done this stuff before too.

Carbs out: shouldn't be a problem as long as no dirt or grit gets into them. Bag them or wrap them and you'll be fine. Unfortunately the likeliest place for this dirt to come from is off the outside of the carbs themselves... If you're going to clean them, be careful about degreaser, most of the ones I've used will attack aluminium if left on for any length of time. I've had good luck with aerosol carb cleaner, an old stainless steel kitchen bowl, and a paintbrush. I'm not sure about fuel drying into varnish and blocking jets though - I've never worried about it but then maybe I've been lucky.

Photos: yes. See the Manage Attachments tab, scroll down a bit from the text window when posting.

[WALRUS]

You will need one of these bad boys..

https://image.ibb.co/dEysVq/pixlr-20181026175412875.jpg

8mm sleeve socket is what some of my spanner wielding chums have called it. I prefer "Skinny Eight Mil Fucker". Two of the bolts are so recessed that none of my 8mm sockets were thin enough to fit in properly.

[Delerium]

Whereabouts in Auckland are you?

[mnishi]

Head gasket: the compression test confirms that you've done it right, but so will running the engine. It's more important to correctly prepare the surfaces of the cylinder barrel and the head, then correctly torque the head bolts. There will be a procedure listed for this in the manual and your friend will have done this stuff before too.

Carbs out: shouldn't be a problem as long as no dirt or grit gets into them. Bag them or wrap them and you'll be fine. Unfortunately the likeliest place for this dirt to come from is off the outside of the carbs themselves... If you're going to clean them, be careful about degreaser, most of the ones I've used will attack aluminium if left on for any length of time. I've had good luck with aerosol carb cleaner, an old stainless steel kitchen bowl, and a paintbrush. I'm not sure about fuel drying into varnish and blocking jets though - I've never worried about it but then maybe I've been lucky.

Photos: yes. See the Manage Attachments tab, scroll down a bit from the text window when posting.

Perfecto!! Thanks a lot :)

[mnishi]

Whereabouts in Auckland are you?

New Windsor/Avondale :)

[Delerium]

New Windsor/Avondale :)

It's the busy end of the year, but I may be able to give you hand every now and then if needed. Have various tools.

[mnishi]

It's the busy end of the year, but I may be able to give you hand every now and then if needed. Have various tools.

I’ll let you know. Thanks a lot!

[mnishi]

Hello everyone,

As this project continues, I have just noticed another issue.

If you could please refer to the photo:

You can see that the handlebar is not aligned with the front tyre. (this thing was low slided, and I bought it from an auction)

I had it checked by a mechanic and he said you can sometimes wiggle the handlebar and it can be put back into alignment; but just wondered if someone can give me some more insight into this? is this true? is it possible to bring back to alignment?

After all this, I do want to have it registered.

Ahh and if it helps. I am no mechanic but the forks do NOT seem bent, have any leak or anything as such. If you'd like a photo, let me know and i can post something.

(I know the bike isn't worth a whole lot, and for me it's not about the money side of things, I am more so passionate to learn all this and just see how things go. Worst come worst, she'll be wrecked but I will not give up toooo easily).

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks!

[FJRider]

You wont be able to fix the issue until you know what's bent.

To start ... put a known good handlebar on it and see how it looks.

[mnishi]

You wont be able to fix the issue until you know what's bent.

To start ... put a known good handlebar on it and see how it looks.

hey! thank you

I did replace the handlebar, although it isn't high quality, do you think this will suffice?

[OddDuck]

Yes.

Get manual, check torque settings for triple clamp bolts. Loosen bolts, not fully, just enough so triple clamp is... amenable.

Clamp front wheel with feet and knees, twist handlebars. Use Mk 1 Eyeball and string / plank / whatever between front and rear wheels. You're looking for rear wheel in parallel with front wheel, handlebar tips at equal distances from some datum on the centerline at the rear of the bike. Retighten triple clamp bolts. Recheck alignment post tightening. Done.

Sounds like a big drama but really it isn't, give it a go and let us know if it's been successful.

[mnishi]

Yes.

Get manual, check torque settings for triple clamp bolts. Loosen bolts, not fully, just enough so triple clamp is... amenable.

Clamp front wheel with feet and knees, twist handlebars. Use Mk 1 Eyeball and string / plank / whatever between front and rear wheels. You're looking for rear wheel in parallel with front wheel, handlebar tips at equal distances from some datum on the centerline at the rear of the bike. Retighten triple clamp bolts. Recheck alignment post tightening. Done.

Sounds like a big drama but really it isn't, give it a go and let us know if it's been successful.

Wow..I’m over the moon with the amount of info here. Thank you!!!

I’ll get to it this week and let you know.

[FJRider]

hey! thank you

I did replace the handlebar, although it isn't high quality, do you think this will suffice?

A straight/flat bar (not that expensive) ... even if it is not a factory handlebar, as long as it is the same diameter.

I personally would bet on both forks being bent ...

[OddDuck]

Hmm - true that - well worth checking if the forks are still straight. That's safety as well as handling so it's worth a bit of work.

You can sight along the tubes with the forks still in the frame. A better way is to present a straight edge to the tubes, or to roll the tubes along a flat, clean benchtop and see if they wobble when they roll. For either of those you'll have to pull the forks off the bike completely and that means lifting the bike.

Options for lifting front of the bike:

- front stand
- underframe / under engine type bike lifter
- rope between front of frame and garage roof / overhead beam

Whatever lift method you use, make sure that the bike's secure. A good way is to use two lift methods simultaneously, each one capable of holding the bike. It'll tend to rock and wobble while you work on fasteners and that can mean trouble. I've had a front stand collapse before... even a mostly stripped 250 has a bit of weight to it and once they start going, they move fast.

[mnishi]

Hmm - true that - well worth checking if the forks are still straight. That's safety as well as handling so it's worth a bit of work.

You can sight along the tubes with the forks still in the frame. A better way is to present a straight edge to the tubes, or to roll the tubes along a flat, clean benchtop and see if they wobble when they roll. For either of those you'll have to pull the forks off the bike completely and that means lifting the bike.

Options for lifting front of the bike:

- front stand
- underframe / under engine type bike lifter
- rope between front of frame and garage roof / overhead beam

Whatever lift method you use, make sure that the bike's secure. A good way is to use two lift methods simultaneously, each one capable of holding the bike. It'll tend to rock and wobble while you work on fasteners and that can mean trouble. I've had a front stand collapse before... even a mostly stripped 250 has a bit of weight to it and once they start going, they move fast.

Bugger.. I’ll take a look tomorrow. But just as a side note, how much do they cost to replace?

[OddDuck]

Bugger.. I’ll take a look tomorrow. But just as a side note, how much do they cost to replace?

Unsure on cost and where you'd get them from for a 1997 Hornet... anyone? But in the meantime if the current forks do test straight then yes it's been work but you have confirmation that any misalignment is just a twist in the triple trees.

[mnishi]

Unsure on cost and where you'd get them from for a 1997 Hornet... anyone? But in the meantime if the current forks do test straight then yes it's been work but you have confirmation that any misalignment is just a twist in the triple trees.

Hello everyone,

After a very long time I am back into it and can confirm a few things..

The engine casing mount needs to be welded, I have attached a photo of this FYI. Anyone know where I can get this done? I have called and emailed several places but no one seems to reply... is it just not worth it?

I am wanting to get this running. Does anybody know what it costs to get the engine rebuilt? I know the bike itself isn’t worth a whole lot but it’s more so the love for the bike than the overall costs. Not hugely fussed but I guess if it’s going to cost substantially more than what the bikes worth, then I may sell as is?

Currently for the engine off the bike, if someone’s able to give me an indication of who would be good at rebuilding this, and get it running. I’ve got a video of me trying to start the bike. An idea of the costs would be good too.

In terms of rebuilding the engine, does a mechanic need the engine to be on the bike? I mean in terms of diagnosing what needs to be done etc. Would a video be enough? (when I did try starting it, it did pick up at one moment and then there was brown coolant coming out, so I have drained this, and the coolant was like coffee... dark brown... and really the bike just didnt want to start). The engine is all off now so just need someone to help with this... replaces some seals (because I think there was a leak in the head 99% sure) and welding of course, and a look at why the coolant was brown?

What do you guys think... I may be a fool to think its worth spending money on this, but am open to hear anyones thoughts on this.

highly appreciated!

[OddDuck]

This is not sounding good at all.

The reweld: unsure, thankfully haven't had to do something like that. I'd suggest as a first call F1 Engineering, motorcycle race damage repair specialists, if they won't do it then they might be able to point you to who will.

The engine rebuild, well, depends how fussy you want to be. It will almost certainly cost more than the bike is worth in any condition including running and wof'd, even doing it DIY. I've done all my own work myself so couldn't tell you what you'd likely pay a pro but can tell you that spares, tools etc add up fast.

It's very easy to be optimistic about this stuff, to greatly underestimate the cost and difficulty of a job like this. If you love the bike then yes, go for it. Otherwise is there something else out there that's been catching your eye lately?

[mnishi]

This is not sounding good at all.

The reweld: unsure, thankfully haven't had to do something like that. I'd suggest as a first call F1 Engineering, motorcycle race damage repair specialists, if they won't do it then they might be able to point you to who will.

The engine rebuild, well, depends how fussy you want to be. It will almost certainly cost more than the bike is worth in any condition including running and wof'd, even doing it DIY. I've done all my own work myself so couldn't tell you what you'd likely pay a pro but can tell you that spares, tools etc add up fast.

It's very easy to be optimistic about this stuff, to greatly underestimate the cost and difficulty of a job like this. If you love the bike then yes, go for it. Otherwise is there something else out there that's been catching your eye lately?

Hmm, thinking to just sell for parts... I do own a 2015 Cbr600rr so really this is just a random ‘project’. But the looks of it, may just be best to give it to the wreckers?

[layton]

Strip the broken case take it to a fab shop get it welded, put motor back in clean carbs fresh fuel and check its got decent spark then have at it with ether(starting fluid) brake kleen what ever you have that is flamable right down the intake. One its half assed going do a TKtest on the radiator if its fine then ride it till it dies.

Actually just start it on the bench less work. Battery charger straight on starter motor with all necessary electricals connected.