Lime Scooters

[Grumph]

Saw something today which I thought might give the hive mind a workout....

Turning off Riccarton road at lights this morning, waiting for a stream of traffic to pass. On the back of the stream was a lime scooter - tapped out, on the road, no helmet. Doing an impressive speed I have to say.
He'd obviously lost the slipstream of the group of cars as the gap was about 100 meters at that point. Big enough for me to get across anyway.

I wondered about the consequences of hitting him...On the roadway, no rego, probably no licence, definitely no insurance.

Does he have any more rights than a pedestrian ? Is he legally a cyclist ?

Discuss.

[Swoop]

Since lime scroters are also on the pavement, should they be on the road?

Discuss.

[Autech]

If the lime scooter was being ridden by a vaping hipster with an oiled beard, does it count as man slaughter or a public service?

Discuss

[rastuscat]

FFS. If you are dumb enough to turn across the path of an oncoming Lime scroter and you hit it and kill the hipster, you'd still get charged.

Whether he should be there or not is still open to examination, but if you kill someone by carelessly using a vehicle, you're in the frame.

[Grumph]

FFS. If you are dumb enough to turn across the path of an oncoming Lime scroter and you hit it and kill the hipster, you'd still get charged.

Whether he should be there or not is still open to examination, but if you kill someone by carelessly using a vehicle, you're in the frame.

Yes, I appreciated that at the time. Plenty of room to get across. But I wanted to know if these road lice had rights - and if so, equivalent to what ?

And while it appears they can be made to go surprisingly quickly, does anyone know what the brakes are like on the bloody things. I'd suspect someone is going to be killed as a suicide by carelessly using a vehicle....

[BeemerBenny]

I wonder if people had the same sort of discussions -obviously not online tapping away on a smartphone - back in the days when the first bicycles turned up on the roads. Or god forbid, the first motorcycles. I can almost hear them saying "Those motorcycles, they don't even have four wheels. Do those road lice even have rights?"

Did I mention I dislike polarizations? Why can't we at least try and share the space we have without calling anyone some insect name?

Bye

Benny

[HenryDorsetCase]

They are not cycles and cannot legally use a cycleway.... apparently. Hence the fact helmets are "Recommended" not compulsory. They do 27kph according to some reports and 22kph according to others.

I was really looking forward to using one last saturday after I came out of an event. Turns out they go home to roost at 11pm. I was quite looking forward to using one ....... possibly just as well as I was half cut and wearing a tux. As you do.

[rastuscat]

Did I mention I dislike polarizations? Why can't we at least try and share the space we have without calling anyone some insect name?

Bye

Benny

I also dislike polarization. Except in sunglasses.

Right up there with extremism.

[AllanB]

All over Christchurch. Generally the ones I am seeing are behaving. Apart from the git at lunchtime today fating along at speed through the Tower Junction car park. He was asking to be knocked off by a reversing car or similar.

I may need to experience one soon.

I have noticed a row of them parked outside The Black Horse on Lincoln Road frequently.

[FJRider]

If electric bicycles are not classed as "Motor Vehicles" ... Should not then ... the solely electric Cars be NOT classed as motor vehicles either ... ??? :scratch:

Or have I got it wrong ... again ... :shifty:

[FJRider]

I also dislike polarization. Except in sunglasses.

Right up there with extremism.

Would not ... having the preferred method of transport of motorcyclists being motorcycles ... and have riding/operating/instructing with them as your occupation ... be also described as a form of polarization ... :scratch:

Or are motorcycles NOT your preferred method of transport/occupation .. ??

[HenryDorsetCase]

If electric bicycles are not classed as "Motor Vehicles" ... Should not then ... the solely electric Cars be NOT classed as motor vehicles either ... ??? :scratch:

Or have I got it wrong ... again ... :shifty:

they are motor vehicles I think but would probably be mopeds. They definitely aren't bikes. And electric cars are clearly cars because, well, cars. the hint is in the name

[Grumph]

they are motor vehicles I think but would probably be mopeds. They definitely aren't bikes. And electric cars are clearly cars because, well, cars. the hint is in the name

And believe it or not - cars were electric before being petrol driven...

Ok, I'll refrain from polarising rhetoric. You'll all have your own experiences with them soon enough. I'll be patient.

[onearmedbandit]

If electric bicycles are not classed as "Motor Vehicles" ... Should not then ... the solely electric Cars be NOT classed as motor vehicles either ... ??? :scratch:

Or have I got it wrong ... again ... :shifty:

I'm guessing your average electric car is over 300w.

https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/low-powered-vehicles/

[babysteps]

Well bugger me..... From the above link.

E-scooters can be used on the footpath or the road – except in designated cycle lanes that are part of the road (which were designed for the sole use of cyclists).

On the footpath the user must:

operate the device in a careful and considerate manner
operate the device at a speed that does not put other footpath users at risk
give way to both pedestrians and drivers of mobility devices.
On the road, e-scooters must be operated as near as practicable to the edge of the roadway.

A helmet is not legally required to be worn when using an e-scooter, but is recommended.

[Autech]

they are motor vehicles I think but would probably be mopeds. They definitely aren't bikes. And electric cars are clearly cars because, well, cars. the hint is in the nameYou sound like a lawyer :D

Moped, without going to google can any of you tell me what Moped means. Ie is it short for motor-pedal or...??? Get ya anoraks out.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[pete376403]

Do drink-driving regs apply? These could be ideal for getting home after a few bevvies (ie at the point where you *might* be over the limit but still, in your opinion, ok to drive, but not totally shitfaced)

[robajs]

back in the day when roller skating down Colombo st in chch on a Friday night was fun I wondered on the legality
of said fun.
so off to the mot I went and talked to the top ranking officer....he said that because our wheels were under
the regulation minimum size they had no jurisdiction over us....we could only be prosecuted for being a public
nuisance ..:devil2:
if a person can be done for drunk driving on a bicycle or a ride on mower why not on a lime scooter?

[jasonu]

Moped, without going to google can any of you tell me what Moped means.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

Moped is cockney rhyming slang for asian.

[rastuscat]

Would not ... having the preferred method of transport of motorcyclists being motorcycles ... and have riding/operating/instructing with them as your occupation ... be also described as a form of polarization ... :scratch:

Or are motorcycles NOT your preferred method of transport/occupation .. ??

Actually no. Motorcycles are what I've done for a job for most of my life. I still do some training, part time.

Cycling is my preferred mode of transport.

[Autech]

cycling is my preferred mode of transport.

heathen!!!!!!

[FJRider]

Cycling is my preferred mode of transport.

Get a job cycling then ... :shifty:

[FJRider]

You sound like a lawyer :D

Moped, without going to google can any of you tell me what Moped means. Ie is it short for motor-pedal or...??? Get ya anoraks out.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

Short for ... Motor/pedals (originally)

[FJRider]

if a person can be done for drunk driving on a bicycle or a ride on mower why not on a lime scooter?

A bicycle is a vehicle not a toy.

[FJRider]

they are motor vehicles I think but would probably be mopeds. They definitely aren't bikes. And electric cars are clearly cars because, well, cars. the hint is in the name

Do pedal CARS need reg and WOF ... ??? :innocent:

[Mike.Gayner]

NZ'ers reactions to these scooters are surprising and saddening. So we have a new form of transport that is proving popular. "hurr durr let's ban them! they're on my road/footpath/cycle lane hurr durr government save me!!". Is it so fucking hard to just adapt to the things around us? Do we really need government stepping in and saving us from every little thing in this world? Why do things like this polarise people and galvanise their weirdly incoherent opinions on alternative transport?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Cycling is my preferred mode of transport.

Hippie scum!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Do pedal CARS need reg and WOF ... ??? :innocent:

Drive your J40 on the road a bit do you?

[rambaldi]

NZ'ers reactions to these scooters are surprising and saddening. So we have a new form of transport that is proving popular. "hurr durr let's ban them! they're on my road/footpath/cycle lane hurr durr government save me!!". Is it so fucking hard to just adapt to the things around us? Do we really need government stepping in and saving us from every little thing in this world? Why do things like this polarise people and galvanise their weirdly incoherent opinions on alternative transport?

Because we are also a bunch of fuckin numpties that can't use things in a way that is nice to those around us.

[rastuscat]

A parable of our times.

3 people walk into a cafe. A motorist (driver/rider), a cyclist, and a pedestrian.

There are 12 biscuits on the table they sit down at. The motorist takes 10, the cyclist takes 1, and the pedestrian takes 1.

Then the motorist whispers to the pedestrian "Watch out, that cyclist is going to steal your biscuit".

And such is the attitude of motorists toward other users of the road.

[Jeff Sichoe]

Who paid for the biscuits?

[Brett]

FFS.

We have cities choking with traffic - much of the country is at a standstill morning and evening - the major cities at least. Here we have a potential solution (along with cycling etc.) that offers an opportunity to help reduce the problem and yet it seems to be hitting road blocks (pun intended) at every bloody turn. Yes we need to consider better the safety of pedestrians and some basic application of road law sense for scooter users, but it would actually be great to see more people applying common sense and looking for ways to enable this to work. Obviously the culture around scooter use needs to be calibrated so as to be sympathetic to other road users. Equally, other road users need to be more considerate of scooters using the roads.

Anyone who has been to the Netherlands can appreciate that the system can work just fine.

[Voltaire]

Who paid for the biscuits?

Whoever pays the most road charges should get the most biscuits.

[rastuscat]

Whoever pays the most road charges should get the most biscuits.

A complex answer.

Given that roading is funded through a variety of streams, (tax, rates, vehicle reg, RUC) it's hard to know who is paying most.

[Grumph]

NZ'ers reactions to these scooters are surprising and saddening. So we have a new form of transport that is proving popular. "hurr durr let's ban them! they're on my road/footpath/cycle lane hurr durr government save me!!". Is it so fucking hard to just adapt to the things around us? Do we really need government stepping in and saving us from every little thing in this world? Why do things like this polarise people and galvanise their weirdly incoherent opinions on alternative transport?

An interesting answer - from someone whose town doesn't yet have the things.

I'll make a stab at a prediction. Given the rising number of reported ACC claims resulting from their use, I'll predict that the first fatality will see them gone.

FWIW, my initial enquiry was as to where I stood for damage to my vehicle if I hit one - or it hit me. I'm going to assume they have public liability insurance.
Anyone know for sure ? Does the app give the user the option to insure ?

[Voltaire]

Limes t’s and c’s, which if your riding have agreed to. It’s all the riders responsibility. Do you need a credit card? Surely not as I’ve seen kids on them.https://www.li.me/en-nz/user-agreement

[Jeff Sichoe]

What do you need to ride them?

On its app, users are told the following rules and regulations:

A helmet is required

Do not ride on the sidewalk

Don't ride downhills

Have a valid driver's license

You are 18 years or older

Ride at your own risk

...

but then;

E-scooters can be used on the footpath or the road, according to the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA).

The scooters can be used on cycle paths, which are physically separated by a barrier or are off the road altogether but they could not be used in designated cycle lanes.

Designated cycle lanes are painted onto the road surface and have no barrier in between.

A spokeswoman for NZTA said this was because those cycle lanes were "for the sole use of cyclists".

and

"The NZTA states we don't require helmets to ride these scooters, however if it's raining or if you do intend on riding on the road for a long period we do recommend wearing a helmet," Rowe said.

so it's basically 'who knows' and I agree with the poster that said this will all be locked down after the first few deaths.

[Mike.Gayner]

"Please government save me and my delicate sensibilities! Please regulate more! REGULATE AND TAX!"

[Brett]

"Please government save me and my delicate sensibilities! Please regulate more! REGULATE AND TAX!"

It would not be complete without both some new legislation AND a new tax. Perhaps a new working group as well?

[Swoop]

If the lime scooter was being ridden by a vaping hipster with an oiled beard, does it count as man slaughter or a public service?

Discuss
Public service...
Especially if they have their hair tied up in a "man bun".

Do drink-driving regs apply? These could be ideal for getting home after a few bevvies (ie at the point where you *might* be over the limit but still, in your opinion, ok to drive, but not totally shitfaced)
Apparently not after 11pm however...


Please regulate more! REGULATE AND TAX!
Labour have heard your call...

[malcy25]

Whoever pays the most road charges should get the most biscuits.

Trucks?

So who then does the cleaning up after dinner, those that do the most damage?

I do snigger at the headlined saying "Lime scooters x many ACC claims already." Again, meaningless statistics. Of course they will increase rapidly, probably proportional to their use....but what's the ratio of claims against other modes of transport on a per head basis....?

[FJRider]

Do drink-driving regs apply? These could be ideal for getting home after a few bevvies (ie at the point where you *might* be over the limit but still, in your opinion, ok to drive, but not totally shitfaced)

My uncle was once charged with "Drunk in charge of a horse" ... :lol:

If you are seen to be"Endangering" others (or yourself) ... ;)

[HenryDorsetCase]

My uncle was once charged with "Drunk in charge of a horse" ... :lol:

If you are seen to be"Endangering" others (or yourself) ... ;)

horses are pretty sensible and if he gets on it shitfaced it probably just went "You again, fuck this shit, I am ambling home"

[FJRider]

horses are pretty sensible and if he gets on it shitfaced it probably just went "You again, fuck this shit, I am ambling home"

As the story was told ... that was pretty much how it was. And by no means ... was it the first time. The horse knew the way home.

[sidecar bob]

A complex answer.

Given that roading is funded through a variety of streams, (tax, rates, vehicle reg, RUC) it's hard to know who is paying most.

The person paying the most for the least return would be the avid vehicle collector that can only drive one at a time.
Mark my words, we are only a short time away from someone having a nasty accident possibly resulting in death on one of these machines, you only need to glance at one to work out why.
Some proper sized wheels would go a long way to making them safer.

[Mike.Gayner]

The person paying the most for the least return would be the avid vehicle collector that can only drive one at a time.
Mark my words, we are only a short time away from someone having a nasty accident possibly resulting in death on one of these machines, you only need to glance at one to work out why.
Some proper sized wheels would go a long way to making them safer.

Boy you really are fearful of these menacing scooters, huh?

[neil.]

if a person can be done for drunk driving on a bicycle or a ride on mower why not on a lime scooter?

but they can't, at least not under the same rules as for driving, the legislation refers specifically to "motor vehicles".

I'm pretty sure they could find "something" to charge you with though, if you are being an idiot.


which i guess then opens the question to electric bikes and e-scooters since they have motors of a sort

[onearmedbandit]

but they can't, at least not under the same rules as for driving, the legislation refers specifically to "motor vehicles".

I'm pretty sure they could find "something" to charge you with though, if you are being an idiot.


which i guess then opens the question to electric bikes and e-scooters since they have motors of a sort

You are correct, they can't charge you with EBA on a bicycle however as you point out they can charge you with the likes of careless use.

[jasonu]

Whoever pays the most road charges should get the most biscuits.

Are they shrewsberrys??? Can you even still get them?

[sidecar bob]

Boy you really are fearful of these menacing scooters, huh?

Tiny wheels, rider standing, 30kmh, what will be the outcome of hitting a small rut?
I'm no gynaecologist but I see head injurys.

[nodrog]

I hope they are still there in January.

[Grumph]

Tiny wheels, rider standing, 30kmh, what will be the outcome of hitting a small rut?
I'm no gynaecologist but I see head injurys.

i'm no gynaecologist either - but I might as well have been today. Around the University area a number of young women in shorts and T shirts using the scooters....Didn't help the blood pressure.
However, the results of an off with minimal clothing can be guessed at quite easily. Lots and lots of skin off....

And no, I didn't go all DOM, I looked, appreciated and looked away....

Noddy, I suspect if they're still here in january, Tina's gonna put you in blinkers.

[nodrog]

i'm no gynaecologist either - but I might as well have been today. Around the University area a number of young women in shorts and T shirts using the scooters....Didn't help the blood pressure.
However, the results of an off with minimal clothing can be guessed at quite easily. Lots and lots of skin off....

And no, I didn't go all DOM, I looked, appreciated and looked away....

Noddy, I suspect if they're still here in january, Tina's gonna put you in blinkers.

You need to ask Santa for an internet capable camera phone, for our benefit ....

[jasonu]

You need to ask Santa for an internet capable camera phone, for our benefit ....

and then get your 8 yr old grand kid to show you how to use it:bleh::bleh::bleh:

[rastuscat]

The person paying the most for the least return would be the avid vehicle collector that can only drive one at a time.
Mark my words, we are only a short time away from someone having a nasty accident possibly resulting in death on one of these machines, you only need to glance at one to work out why.
Some proper sized wheels would go a long way to making them safer.

As with all vehicles, it's a question of how they are used.

My wife owns her own lekky scooter, uses it as a last mile solution for her work at Chch hospital. She free parks about 2.5 km away, and scoots to work through Hagley Park. She then works all day with people who are always bitching about no parking at the hospital, and the parking tickets they keep getting.

She has good quality shared paths to ride on, and uses her bell to interact with pedestrians. Basically, she doesn't ride like a dick.

I've ridden the CEOs lekky scooter around Rangiora a few times, and the smaller wheels aren't an issue. The back wheel is solid, the front wheel pneumatic, with basic suspension. I expect this is to deal with stones and minor bumps which might stop a solid front wheel.

It's no different to trucks, cars, buses etc. It's not the vehicle, it's how they are operated. Each vehicle has specific risks, most of which can be managed.

[Grumph]

As with all vehicles, it's a question of how they are used.

My wife owns her own lekky scooter, uses it as a last mile solution for her work at Chch hospital. She free parks about 2.5 km away, and scoots to work through Hagley Park. She then works all day with people who are always bitching about no parking at the hospital, and the parking tickets they keep getting.

She has good quality shared paths to ride on, and uses her bell to interact with pedestrians. Basically, she doesn't ride like a dick.

I've ridden the CEOs lekky scooter around Rangiora a few times, and the smaller wheels aren't an issue. The back wheel is solid, the front wheel pneumatic, with basic suspension. I expect this is to deal with stones and minor bumps which might stop a solid front wheel.

It's no different to trucks, cars, buses etc. It's not the vehicle, it's how they are operated. Each vehicle has specific risks, most of which can be managed.

It was for situations exactly like hers that the folding bicycle was invented.

[rastuscat]

It was for situations exactly like hers that the folding bicycle was invented.

Mrs Me is most unlikely to cycle. But the advent of better battery technology provided her with the option.

I'd be keen for her to have a Brompton or a Bike Friday, but she's not me.

[sidecar bob]

It was for situations exactly like hers that the folding bicycle was invented.

To be fair, the folding bicycle came later.
This design masterpiece led the way:lol:

[BadSarah]

These escooters can run solely on their motor, as do some ebikes, surely this makes them a MOTOR vehicle?

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[HenryDorsetCase]

i'm no gynaecologist either - but I might as well have been today. Around the University area a number of young women in shorts and T shirts using the scooters....Didn't help the blood pressure.
However, the results of an off with minimal clothing can be guessed at quite easily. Lots and lots of skin off....

And no, I didn't go all DOM, I looked, appreciated and looked away....

Noddy, I suspect if they're still here in january, Tina's gonna put you in blinkers.

I'm no gynaecoloogist, just an enthusiastic amateur.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Mrs Me is most unlikely to cycle. But the advent of better battery technology provided her with the option.

I'd be keen for her to have a Brompton or a Bike Friday, but she's not me.

Bromptons are fantastic - I have an M6 - which hardly gets used any more.

[Ixion]

These escooters can run solely on their motor, as do some ebikes, surely this makes them a MOTOR vehicle?

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What is, or isn't, a motor vehicle is defined by legislation. And common sense therefore has nothing to do with it. By a Gazette notice electric scooters are declared not to be motor vehicles.

For the legals refer to https://www.nzta.govt.nz/vehicles/vehicle-types/low-powered-vehicles/ and follow the various links.

[pritch]

I'm no gynaecoloogist, just an enthusiastic amateur.

"I'm not a gynaecologist, but I'll have a look at it for you." :innocent:

[Cosmik de Bris]

As with all vehicles, it's a question of how they are used.

My wife owns her own lekky scooter, uses it as a last mile solution for her work at Chch hospital.

Yes, quite a few people are using the same approach at the University. $1000 for a hunting licence, but with all the contractors on site there are very few parks. The streets outside are two hour, and it's quite a long way to get to an all day area.

Cheers

[neels]

Took one for a hoon into town on Sunday morning, other than a lack of suspension trying to rattle the fillings out of your teeth it seems like a very effective way of getting from A to B, particularly the park it where you're finished with it aspect.

Surprisingly, if you're courteous about how you operate the thing you get smiles from the other people you're sharing the road or footpath with, so I guess the simple answer (which applies to every mode of transport) is don't be a dick and the world will be a happy place.

[sidecar bob]

There's a problem.
https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/193199-lime-scooters-recall-model-worldwide.html

[rambaldi]

At least we only have this bunch to worry about then:

https://www.reddit.com/r/auckland/comments/9w8gix/lime_scooters_getting_an_upgrade/

Good bye any future ACC savings for us.

[SaferRides]

Walked past a Lime scooter yesterday with the rear brake cable disconnected.

Think I'll pass until they sort their shit out.

[rastuscat]

Rode a lime scooter while at the Trafinz conference in Wellington. Had a good chat to the guy promoting them too.

I repeat my original thoughts. It's not the vehicle that's the problem. It's the way it's used.

[russd7]

Rode a lime scooter while at the Trafinz conference in Wellington. Had a good chat to the guy promoting them too.

I repeat my original thoughts. It's not the vehicle that's the problem. It's the way it's used.

unfortunately in todays society it seems that some people believe that its not against the law so get over it, well that's what I got told last xmas in Westport when I came out of a shop and nearly got hit by a guy on a bike riding down the footpath. at the end of the day if people are courteous to other people then tolerance develops but if people continue to be asses on wheels then intolerance will only grow

[BadSarah]

When I think of the level of ineptitude I see on the roads from people that have supposedly been through a licensing processes, I shudder in horror at the idea of people without a clue loose on scooters where pedestrians are.

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[jim.cox]

Hmm...

boy gets six points on future driving licence for scooter speeding (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/14/boy-gets-six-points-on-future-driving-licence-for-scooter-speeding)

[F5 Dave]

As a 9yr old, our scooters weren't electric but we lived on a long steep hill road. We'd race down, doing skids (gumboot of heel jammed between rear wheel and lame metal brake lever) ripping up lawns, flat tack around blind corners, if we'd come across a little old lady hauling groceries in her trundler we would have nailed her (9yrs old remember pervies). We were a fucking menace.
Should have banned us.
Actually the brakeless pedal cars were worse.


But then we all got given bicycles and order was returned to the pavement and we were relegated to the bottom of the road food chain.

[pritch]

That Guardian article seems very optimistic as to the speed of the things which is not helpful to informed discussion. 65KPH is several times the speeds I've seen mentioned previously, but on an urban footpath would no doubt be a thrilling ride. :whistle:



As a 9yr old, our scooters weren't electric but we lived on a long steep hill road.

Yeah, there is a steepish hill hereabout which I walk up for exercise. Many moons ago the local lads used to run carts down it. They eventually figured that if they built the carts with bicycle wheels they'd go much faster. Engines were a natural progression but then they turned fifteen and bought motorcycles.

One of them told me he once thought he could beat the railcar to the local crossing, he can remember flying through the air looking down at the passengers in the railcar looking up at him. He suffered a sprained ankle.

[MD]

e-scooters are here so get used to it. Just like skateboarders on footpaths that piss me off and bloody smart phone obsessed pedestrians. e-scooters do fill a convenience gap as Ratuscat pointed out though, which could help ease congestion etc.

So how far do they go on a charge. How long to recharge. Buddy has an electric [work] car and he seems forever obsessed about the range remaining and finding time to plug it in for hours and hours and hours.

[jasonu]

I repeat my original thoughts. It's not the vehicle that's the problem. It's the way it's used.

Same thing can be said about firearms.

[Voltaire]

Question for Rastus,

I was and still are led to believe you can't ride a a bicycle on the footpath.

Road Code seems to agree.

If I tape a list of T's and C's to the frame and tick agreed to wearing a helmet can I ride around without one confident that Plod will not ping me?

[rastuscat]

Question for Rastus,

I was and still are led to believe you can't ride a a bicycle on the footpath.

Road Code seems to agree.

If I tape a list of T's and C's to the frame and tick agreed to wearing a helmet can I ride around without one confident that Plod will not ping me?

With the occasional exception (posties), kids on bikes with 10 inch wheels or less, it's against the rules to ride a bicycle on a footpath. So says the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004, Section 11.11

Section 11.1 deals with the obligations of the users of mobility devices, and wheeled recreational devices. Basically it says don't ride like a dick.

There are rules around this stuff, just that nobody ever cares to actually read them.

[rambaldi]

That Guardian article seems very optimistic as to the speed of the things which is not helpful to informed discussion. 65KPH is several times the speeds I've seen mentioned previously, but on an urban footpath would no doubt be a thrilling ride. :whistle:




Yeah, there is a steepish hill hereabout which I walk up for exercise. Many moons ago the local lads used to run carts down it. They eventually figured that if they built the carts with bicycle wheels they'd go much faster. Engines were a natural progression but then they turned fifteen and bought motorcycles.

One of them told me he once thought he could beat the railcar to the local crossing, he can remember flying through the air looking down at the passengers in the railcar looking up at him. He suffered a sprained ankle.

From what I have read else where, the picture in the article is misleading. It was one of those scooters that are similar style but have a seat, and I guess more batteries under it.

[F5 Dave]

. . .
Yeah, there is a steepish hill hereabout which I walk up for exercise. Many moons ago the local lads used to run carts down it. They eventually figured that if they built the carts with bicycle wheels they'd go much faster. Engines were a natural progression but then they turned fifteen and bought motorcycles.

One of them told me he once thought he could beat the railcar to the local crossing, he can remember flying through the air looking down at the passengers in the railcar looking up at him. He suffered a sprained ankle.

Uh-huh. So does that ankle still trouble you on those walks occasionally? :lol:

[Swoop]

There are rules around this stuff, just that nobody ever cares to actually read them.

I'm always entertained by people who have reversed into diagonal parking on a road (seeing more of this recently) and a few people who park against the traffic flow - driver's door against the kerb.
They must really like assisting police getting their ticket book emptied as quickly as possible.

[rastuscat]

My main amusement comes from people who think the road code is the law.

[Autech]

My main amusement comes from people who think the road code is the law.I AM THE LAWWWW!

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[sidecar bob]

My main amusement comes from people who think the road code is the law.

Is it somehow misleading?

[Voltaire]

Is it somehow misleading?

Maybe like the Haynes manual is to the Factory one...?

[Grumph]

Maybe like the Haynes manual is to the Factory one...?

I asked a pretty vocal member of the American Christian Right which he considered more accurate - the bible or factory workshop manuals.
Still haven't had an answer...

Factory manuals are only their opinion as to how the product should go together....

[rastuscat]

Is it somehow misleading?

What's the legally required following distance at 50 kmh?

Law says 20 metres, Road Code suggests 27.6 metres.

Only one is the law. The Road Code is a very good collection of suggested practices based on the law. But it ain't the law.

[F5 Dave]

I AM THE LAWWWW!

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

Respec ma Aythoraty!

[Laava]

I'm always entertained by people who park against the traffic flow - driver's door against the kerb.
Poms. Perfectly acceptable in pomgolia. Only here and in Aus where it is a criminal abomination

[Fresh Oats]

Sorry to dig up an older thread but...

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/serious-crash-between-truck-and-lime-scooter-closes-stretch-sh1-in-dunedin?variant=tb_v_1

[merv]

Poms. Perfectly acceptable in pomgolia. Only here and in Aus where it is a criminal abomination

And so it should be when you red reflectors are not facing the right way down the road making the vehicle a bit blind to traffic on its side of the road at night.

[jellywrestler]

apparantly you have to be 18 to ride one of these, coincidentally the same age as your allowed in a pub, so pub first then first lime scooter ride, yeehaa, then accident and emergency dept....

[george formby]

Poms. Perfectly acceptable in pomgolia. Only here and in Aus where it is a criminal abomination

I must pipe up.

I moved out of a flat in London many years ago with the getaway vehicle parked as described. Loaded the car up, drivers door open. Myself and a passenger jumped in and jammed the door hard against the pavement. I ground the bottom of the door off yanking it shut.:pinch:

Muppet.

[pete376403]

I'm always entertained by people who have reversed into diagonal parking on a road (seeing more of this recently) and a few people who park against the traffic flow - driver's door against the kerb.
They must really like assisting police getting their ticket book emptied as quickly as possible.
To park facing oncoming traffic means the driver must have driven on the wrong side of the road.

[rastuscat]

To park facing oncoming traffic means the driver must have driven on the wrong side of the road.

And if they park adjacent to another car, their view is restricted when they want to pull out again, coz they are sitting on the wrong side of the car.

[JATZ]

I'm always entertained by people who have reversed into diagonal parking on a road.
Ever been to Queensland ? Apparently it's the done thing there.

[Murray]

To park facing oncoming traffic means the driver must have driven on the wrong side of the road.

it must be legal in the UK as I see it a lot on overseas motorcycled videos

[Laava]

it must be legal in the UK as I see it a lot on overseas motorcycled videos
Yep, legal in the UK and very much the done thing. To be fair their std of driving, or courtesy in particular, is better than ours.

[pete376403]

back on topic - Dunedin: truck 1, Lime scooter 0. Who would have thought?

[jasonu]

To be fair their std of driving, or courtesy in particular, is better than ours.

Most countries are.

[Berries]

And if they park adjacent to another car, their view is restricted when they want to pull out again, coz they are sitting on the wrong side of the car.
Woop de doo. Probably also find that they look for when it is safe to join the traffic, indicate and then join said traffic, rather than sitting there with the indicator going mindlessly the NZ way. Odd how people on here diss drivers from other countries when the standards here are shithouse. One word, courtesy. I don’t think that is in the Road Code.

[Voltaire]

Most countries are.

Not been to Spain and Portugal then.

[cheshirecat]

There's a few traffic laws carefully obscured. Had a cyclist ride across a pedestrian crossing without looking or stopping and could have t boned him had not 6th sense prevailed. Checking the legality out it seems he looses pedestrian rights if riding but would think few cyclists would know that.

[Voltaire]

There's a few traffic laws carefully obscured. Had a cyclist ride across a pedestrian crossing without looking or stopping and could have t boned him had not 6th sense prevailed. Checking the legality out it seems he looses pedestrian rights if riding but would think few cyclists would know that.

I think your not allowed to ride bicycles on the footpath ( does Google search).


Under New Zealand law only people delivering mail or with cycle wheels less than 355mm in diameter can ride on a footpath. ... The main danger on a footpath is cars backing out and unable to see a cyclist or pedestrian.

Apparently Lime scooters are not supposed to be on the road or use cycle lanes. That must be a tick box down from being over 18 and wearing a helmet :lol:

They are the flavour of the summer with media, a bit less so with the Pikes and their mates the roofing scammers. Seen all this before living in Ireland)

Lime scooters look like fun but I don't want to fall off in town as I only have two $600 suits.

[Grumph]

Lime scooters look like fun but I don't want to fall off in town as I only have two $600 suits.

One of those had better be leathers.....

[pritch]

There's a few traffic laws carefully obscured. Had a cyclist ride across a pedestrian crossing without looking or stopping and could have t boned him had not 6th sense prevailed. Checking the legality out it seems he looses pedestrian rights if riding but would think few cyclists would know that.

If it was busy I used to walk the bike over a crossing, it just seemed logical.



I think your not allowed to ride bicycles on the footpath ( does Google search).


I don't know what you found on Google but some paths are designated as shared. Regardless of legality I ride on the footpath if at that point it seems a safer option than the road.

[Moi]

... Lime scooters look like fun but I don't want to fall off in town as I only have two $600 suits.

Wear your leathers... :scooter:

[BadSarah]

Ever been to Queensland ? Apparently it's the done thing there.My uncle had his 944 Ducati backed into over there, just the day after he had picked it up from the dealer, brand new. Buggered it up so good that they gave him another one

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[MD]

Woop de doo. Probably also find that they look for when it is safe to join the traffic, indicate and then join said traffic, rather than sitting there with the indicator going mindlessly the NZ way. Odd how people on here diss drivers from other countries when the standards here are shithouse. One word, courtesy. I don’t think that is in the Road Code.

Totally agree. Most of our traffic incidents would be solved by simple courtesy. My OE taught me that and I've been ashamed of our driving standard ever since. In fact courtesy would eliminate half the world's problems.

[Swoop]

To park facing oncoming traffic means the driver must have driven on the wrong side of the road.
Or crossed over into the oncoming lane and then parked.
Still illegal to do in NZ since you must park "in the direction of the traffic flow".

Ever been to Queensland ? Apparently it's the done thing there.
Yes, I've been to the Racist Banana Republic. They have some very good rules like freeway speed limits and around town (60kmh), however their rules are not those that our gubbinmental festering retards have decided are going to be enforced in NZ.

[Autech]

To park facing oncoming traffic means the driver must have driven on the wrong side of the road.Also means they're a lazy cunt

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[nerrrd]

Passed a Lime Scooter in the Dominion Rd bus lane last night during rush hour, guy must have been doing at least 30kph. Because I’m such a helpful soul (change your own flat tyre lady in the supermarket, I’m busy) I informed him what he was doing was illegal as I went past, “well done” was his reply, “you’re welcome” was my reply to his reply in my head.

Thinking further about it, I guess if you want to do 30kph plus on a wobbly scooter with tiny wheels during rush hour traffic the bus lane is probably your best option (I hope he was keeping an eye out for turning traffic being allowed through by the friendly car drivers on his right, because I bet the brakes are shit), I wonder how much of an incentive having to pay for those things by the minute is in encouraging people to go like the clappers.

Maybe the council should consider getting them to charge by the kilometre instead, that might slow things down a bit.

[BMWST?]

If it was busy I used to walk the bike over a crossing, it just seemed logical.




I don't know what you found on Google but some paths are designated as shared. Regardless of legality I ride on the footpath if at that point it seems a safer option than the road.

i would bet that if you are riding on the foot you arent going 30 km hr.
I saw some idiot the other day going down a typical suburbam street(fences, bumpy footpath,trees ,etc etc.He was flying (much faster than a jogger for example),courier type bag,shirtsleeves,no helmet.I dont understand how absolutely thoughtless this is.
Absolutely egree on the courtesy thing,and i am pretty sure the road code does mention courtesy.

[george formby]

Absolutely egree on the courtesy thing,and i am pretty sure the road code does mention courtesy.

Being courteous was part of driving instruction and testing when I sat my licences in the UK. Using a courtesy flash of the headlight(s) was part of the training. It was re-inforced as a signal that "I can see you, so" pull out, turn, whatever, safely.

[Moi]

Passed a Lime Scooter in the Dominion Rd bus lane last night during rush hour...

He's game...

wonder what it's like to ride your Lime in the bus lane with double-decker right behind you?

[Grumph]

He's game...

wonder what it's like to ride your Lime in the bus lane with double-decker right behind you?

Probably no more nerve-wracking than riding a Chinese made 50cc scooter in the same situation....

[nerrrd]

Might be a rationale for keeping his speed up (to stay in front of the buses), I saw him pass a cyclist.

I guess the only difference between him and them was his relative speed and no helmet.

[george formby]

He's game...

wonder what it's like to ride your Lime in the bus lane with double-decker right behind you?

If you don't have the imagination to picture the possible consequences, which seems quite common, I'm sure it feels just fine.

[FJRider]

... wonder what it's like to ride your Lime in the bus lane with double-decker right behind you?

Get it right ... no problems ... :banana:

Get it wrong ... you might feel a little flat ... :whistle:

[Jeeper]

He's game...

wonder what it's like to ride your Lime in the bus lane with double-decker right behind you?Saw that at the bottom of Symond Street in Auckland one early morning. I was wondering why the bus was going so slowly. The woman in question was wearing shorts, t-shirt and jandals. No other concern in the world.

[Moi]

Probably no more nerve-wracking than riding a Chinese made 50cc scooter in the same situation...

At least on 50cc twist-n-go you have a chance of maintaining 50km/h, because the buses don't hang about... :scooter:


If you don't have the imagination to picture the possible consequences, which seems quite common, I'm sure it feels just fine.

Perhaps they should have photos on the scoots, like they do on cigarette packets... :sick:


Get it right ... no problems ... :banana:

Get it wrong ... you might feel a little flat ... :whistle:

Guess the worst case scenario will just wash away...

[F5 Dave]

With what?!?!@ when was the last time it rained?

[Moi]

Saw that at the bottom of Symond Street in Auckland one early morning. I was wondering why the bus was going so slowly. The woman in question was wearing shorts, t-shirt and jandals. No other concern in the world.

Cure:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_al9owcieHQ

[FJRider]

Guess the worst case scenario will just wash away...

The rider might be a little hosed off though ... ;)

[buggerit]

Being courteous was part of driving instruction and testing when I sat my licences in the UK. Using a courtesy flash of the headlight(s) was part of the training. It was re-inforced as a signal that "I can see you, so" pull out, turn, whatever, safely.

I courtesy flashed a few bikes today to warn of a parked van in the shadow of a tree on the outskirts of Pukekohe, cant be too safe I say:shifty:

[Jeeper]

Here's video extracted quickly. This is Anzac Ave top/Symond Street bottom.


https://youtu.be/R9CcEh_Dahw

[lb99]

In suburban Blenheim. it's looking a bit sad. Green box thing is smashed off the front, wires hanging out everywhere and for some reason it has had the front wheel pulled apart. I called like, they couldn't find it on the GPS but said they would send someone out to pick it up. It is gonna be a long drive for a fucked scooter...

[jasonu]

Apparently you lot are too stupid to ride scooters.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12206406
340990

[Laava]

Apparently you lot are too stupid to ride scooters.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12206406
340990
to be honest, it is not just scooters...

[neels]

Apparently you lot are too stupid to ride scooters.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12206406
340990
Probably true.

The current problem seems to be the thing locking up and turfing the rider onto the footpath, which I find interesting as to do that they must be locking the front wheel, if it was the rear then surely it's skids on the foot path?

Is it brakes locking up, or failure of cheap chinese bearings in the wheels.......

[F5 Dave]

Sw fix is apparently coming.

Maybe that's like Ducati in the early superbikes retirement with electrical problems. . . Read broken engine cases.

[SaferRides]

They are off the roads in Auckland and Dunedin until the front wheel locking problem is fixed.

If it wasn't for the weather, might be a good weekend to go into town.

[Laava]

Does this qualify as a lime scooter?

[AllanB]

I have not heard of any issues in Christchurch. Maybe Aucklanders are too fat for Lime scooters?

[Voltaire]

I have not heard of any issues in Christchurch. Maybe Aucklanders are too fat for Lime scooters?

That and inclines. I wonder when you rock up to a and e do they tick scooter/ motorcycle...

[eldog]

I have not heard of any issues in Christchurch. Maybe Aucklanders are too fat for Lime scooters?

Chch's new road system and parking madness is well suited for lime scooters.

Traffic lights in middle of road for no particular reason, only seem to occur in chch too.

Akl council want bus or train transport only. Dont you know.

[Swoop]

Maybe Aucklanders are too fat for Lime scooters?
Nope. There's no latte' cup holder fitted.

[Fresh Oats]

Speaking of fat people on scooters, you guys get those morbidly obese people riding around on 3 wheel'ed mobility scooters where you live?
I thought it was an American meme thing but nope, I swear I see them everywhere now.

[Berries]

If they weren't just dumped in the middle of some random footpath so some old biddy falls over them and breaks a hip, gets pneumonia and dies I might be a bit more relaxed but fuck them and the people who ride them. Why is it most riders look like they couldn't even afford a cell phone anyway? More like fucking tramp taxis.

Little known fact but they only took them off the streets of Dunedin because the students got back this week and most have them went awol. Apparently the electrics get messed up when they are in the Leith.

[Scubbo]

I wonder if its when the credit runs out it just locks on all brakes, whether its moving or not :nya:

with all the legal guff going around preventing bikes on pavements, and on roads --- only a matter of time before the nanny state steps up

[Laava]

Silence of the Limes, apparently.

[MD]

Speaking of fat people on scooters, you guys get those morbidly obese people riding around on 3 wheel'ed mobility scooters where you live?
I thought it was an American meme thing but nope, I swear I see them everywhere now.

Yeah I've noticed that trend. Make yourself obese by overeating and minimal physical movement as possible and you proclaim yourself as disabled. Then you remove the one exertion that you did, walking. I guess they replace the cupholder with a pie warmer.
Keen to try a lime scooter. Are they in Wellington CBD? Seen some in the Hutt.

[WALRUS]

While hopping about Christchurch in my mighty clapped out Nissan Bluebird, I had 4 different instances of Lime scooters flying out into traffic. Is that a regular thing or have I just been particularly unlucky?

[pritch]

While hopping about Christchurch in my mighty clapped out Nissan Bluebird, I had 4 different instances of Lime scooters flying out into traffic. Is that a regular thing or have I just been particularly unlucky?

I don't know if you've been unlucky, but if the scooter riders keep doing that it's highly likely they will be.

[pete376403]

Yeah I've noticed that trend. Make yourself obese by overeating and minimal physical movement as possible and you proclaim yourself as disabled. Then you remove the one exertion that you did, walking. I guess they replace the cupholder with a pie warmer.
Keen to try a lime scooter. Are they in Wellington CBD? Seen some in the Hutt.

Limes may in be Wgtn now but have been in the Hutt for a month or two. WRT to the overweight people, I see . number of oversize women in jazz pants and lycra sports tops out on Limes. maybe this counts as exercise but I'm sure its doing nothing for their fitness or weight.

[AllanB]

I don't know if you've been unlucky, but if the scooter riders keep doing that it's highly likely they will be.

I've had no issues while driving - but have had a few close misses on the footpath. Is it illegal to punch someone if they almost hit you?

[pritch]

I've had no issues while driving - but have had a few close misses on the footpath. Is it illegal to punch someone if they almost hit you?

Probably. If you were really frightened you might put your arm out in a reflex fend. You might need some spare cash for a lawyer though.

Thank God these things haven't made their way out to the rural rump. Our idiots will be as dangerous as the idiots anywhere else and most of the accidents I have seen described were idiotic. "She thought she was too drunk to drive so she took a Lime scooter." Marvellous.

[FJRider]

I've had no issues while driving - but have had a few close misses on the footpath. Is it illegal to punch someone if they almost hit you?

If you are wearing steel toe-capped boots ... and you "accidentally" put your foot in front of their front wheel ... ACC will still provide and pay for any medical care needed after their "accident" ... "apparently" ... :innocent:

[WALRUS]

Thank God these things haven't made their way out to the rural rump. Our idiots will be as dangerous as the idiots anywhere else and most of the accidents I have seen described were idiotic. "She thought she was too drunk to drive so she took a Lime scooter." Marvellous.

Oh yeah, I saw a house party pile out of an apartment in Linwood and go 'two-up' on a fleet of Limes into the night.. The woft of booze and weed as they scooted past was worrying for people in 'control' of motorised transport haha!

[FJRider]

Probably. If you were really frightened you might put your arm out in a reflex fend. You might need some spare cash for a lawyer though.

Thank God these things haven't made their way out to the rural rump. Our idiots will be as dangerous as the idiots anywhere else and most of the accidents I have seen described were idiotic. "She thought she was too drunk to drive so she took a Lime scooter." Marvellous.

The student in Dunedin was billed for not leaving her scooter available for other users. It was impounded by Police for testing for any possible faults that might have contributed to the accident. She said "I was hit by a truck ... as if the truck (and it's trailer) was at fault (they're pretty hard to miss seeing). The fact she was crossing Highway one (one way street) against a red light at one in the morning ... was not admitted, or even mentioned.

[FJRider]

... Little known fact but they only took them off the streets of Dunedin because the students got back this week and most have them went awol. Apparently the electrics get messed up when they are in the Leith.

Or .... left lying across the railway tracks. Trains can make a mess of them too ... apparently ... :blank:

[pritch]

This from Eben Weiss in Outdoor magazine. He usually writes about matters cycling but took a look at Lime scooters.
Sorry about the format but it didn't seem to lend itself to a simple link.


It’s become conventional wisdom that e-scooters are dangerous. Like most conventional wisdom, it’s probably wrong.
Back in August, I went to Portland, Oregon, to experience the much-talked-about shared e-scooter phenomenon. Despite their outsized reputation for mayhem, I found the scooters to be extremely useful and rather enjoyable, and they completely failed to make me either angry or concerned.

Still, my scootering experiences were purely subjective, and while I always suspected the risk factor was overblown, there was no denying that people were getting hurt out there. Unfortunately, since scooters were still so new, there wasn’t much beyond anecdotes to support either my own optimistic view or the dire prognostications of people like CNN doctor Ford Vox, who, in a column warning of the dangers of e-scooters, invoked the specter of a drone chopping up a baby’s face for some reason.

Now it’s 2019, the Year of Reckoning. After hearing lots of stories, we’re finally getting hard numbers on scooter casualties, and last week the medical journal JAMA Network Open published a study catchily titled, “Injuries Associated With Standing Electric Scooter Use.”
So who will it vindicate?

Well, the media reaction to the study’s release was swift and widespread. Certainly at first blush it appeared that scooters will indeed hasten the demise of the human race and that merely downloading a scooter app onto your phone is to submit yourself to the Darwin Awards eligibility pool. Here are just a few of the headlines that appeared in the wake of the study:
“Head injuries make up 40% of e-scooter ER visits: Study” (ABC News)
“Among injured e-scooter riders, only 4% were wearing helmets” (CNN)
“Head injuries, fractures common in e-scooter crashes, study finds” (CBS News)
“Scooters: The Next Public Health Issue?” (USA Today)

This is certainly scary, highly clickable stuff. But headlines aside, what did the study actually study, and what were the actual findings of said study? Well, from September 1, 2017 to August 31, 2018, researchers looked at people with scooter-related injuries who reported to one of two emergency rooms affiliated with the Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center and UCLA Medical Center–Santa Monica. They then looked at how—and how badly—these people fucked themselves up. (Sorry for the medical jargon.) Here’s what they found:
During the study period of one year, 249 patients went to the emergency room due to scooter shenanigans, mishaps, and other assorted mishegas;
Of those, 234 of them—that’s 94 percent—were sent home (though sadly there’s no data on how many of them returned home via scooter);
The remaining 15 patients were admitted;
Of those 15 admitted patients, two (2) were injured so severely that they had to go to the ICU.
In other words, over a one-year period in a densely populated region of Southern California, someone went to the emergency room with a scooter-related injury maybe every couple of days. And while two severe injuries is two too many, the overwhelming majority of them weren’t particularly serious.
This is scary….why exactly?

Of course, to really put these numbers in perspective and get a sense of just how dangerous scooters are (or aren’t!), it helps to know two things:
The total number of people who are reporting to these emergency rooms for any reason;
The total number of scooter trips people are taking in the area being studied.
Frustratingly, the study seems to address neither of these stats. However, a quick googling reveals that the Emergency Departments of both Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center and UCLA Medical Center--Santa Monica each treat around 50,000 patients a year. So out of 100,000 people who, combined, wound up in the emergency rooms, fewer than 300 of them were there because of scooters. As for the number of scooter trips, Santa Monica’s scooter pilot program allows for a total of 2,000 scooters from the various operators, and a scooter in a major market is likely to see an average of five trips per day. That means it’s entirely possible Santa Monica alone saw well over three million scooter trips over the course of the study.
So basically, three million scooter trips, two severe injuries. Still scared?

The lack of context in the study for these injury statistics is vexing, but rest assured it includes ample helmet data for the pearl-clutching set. (Scooter riders tend not to wear helmets, for the same reason most of us don’t change into work boots before we hop on the escalator.) Indeed, in the “Invited Commentary” accompanying the study, Frederick P. Rivara writes:
We are not troglodytes trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle. […] Action, however, is needed by a number of players. The Consumer Product Safety Commission should test different helmets for these various devices and label them according to the vehicle in which their use is appropriate. Just as helmet manufacturers responded to the increased demand for bicycle helmets with new and attractive products priced very affordably, these manufacturers should develop and promote use of helmets appropriate for electric scooters and bikes. The companies renting both motorized and unmotorized 2-wheeled vehicles should make appropriate helmets available; failure to do so is like a car rental company renting cars without seat belts. Cities can and should require provision of helmets as part of their contracts with the companies (yes, the cities do have contracts with the companies). We as purveyors of health care and public health should partner with these other players to ensure that these companies are not creating a new public health problem.

But why? In a society conditioned to place excessive faith in helmets this may sound compelling, but in truth there’s little basis for any of it. Rivara writes: “Bicycle helmets have been shown to reduce the risk of TBI by as much as 88%,” and his basis for this is his own study from 1989.
However, this isn’t particularly convincing, as the study has since turned out to be so problematic that even the federal government no longer cites it as it doesn’t meet the standards of the federal Data Quality Act. More importantly, helmet laws don’t work, and don’t @ me on that. So while Rivara might not be a troglodyte trying to stuff a genie in a bottle, he is a troglodyte trying to make everyone wear foam hats for no reason, which is arguably a lot worse.

But the big flatulent pachyderm in the room, as usual, is cars. Santa Monica saw nine roadway deaths in 2017; driving is the reason for this. Meanwhile, scooters help reduce driving. In fact, during its scooter pilot, the city of Portland found that 34 percent of locals and 48 percent of visitors surveyed replaced car trips with scooter trips. This is extremely promising, for the simple reason that fewer car trips means fewer deaths.
Are people in Santa Monica also replacing their car trips with scooter trips? Well, we don’t have the numbers yet. But now that we know how many people went to the hospital because they tripped over a scooter in the past year (five, in case you’re wondering) and how many people dared to ride them without helmets (most of them, because come on, people), maybe someone could do some kind of study on who’s scooting instead of driving.
Now that would be useful.

[jasonu]

Well um no fucking shit!!!!!
Where does the Harold get these 'reporters' from???
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207504

[neels]

Well um no fucking shit!!!!!
Where does the Harold get these 'reporters' from???
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207504
:facepalm:

[SaferRides]

Keen to try a lime scooter. Are they in Wellington CBD? Seen some in the Hutt.
I'm waiting until they're safe.

The new "Rolls Royce" (their quote) model with the battery under the boards might be OK. Who knows, it might not try to kill you They took one model off the road last year because of safety issues.

[Voltaire]

Enjoyed my walk to Fonterra cafe for my weekly carrot cake and latte this morning without tripping over or run down by Lime scooters.:baby:

[F5 Dave]

So. . . If I ran a amusement ride for example and it started injuring multiple people.
.. Wouldn't I expect a visit from worksafe type people bearing a big stick?

[pritch]

So. . . If I ran a amusement ride for example and it started injuring multiple people.
.. Wouldn't I expect a visit from worksafe type people bearing a big stick?

Absolutely. Thing is though most of the scooter accidents are "operator error" due to the operator being pissed, or stupid, or both.

The brakes locking thing is what attracted officialdom but the company say that has been fixed.

[Swoop]

Just let Lime operate their company with the proviso that every injury claim will be billed directly to them.


Ding! "Next problem to solve".

[FJRider]

Just let Lime operate their company with the proviso that every injury claim will be billed directly to them.


Ding! "Next problem to solve".

Lime Scooter accident injuries are not really a problem. ACC provide a No Fault accident cover to all citizens and visitors alike. Accident statistics involving lime scooters are only quoted (not necessarily accurately) in an effort to enhance the respective agenda ... <_<

[F5 Dave]

So . . .


No such thing as work safe?


What about Jesus?



Don't say he's make-believe or I'll set the devils Sister on you.

[pritch]

Just let Lime operate their company with the proviso that every injury claim will be billed directly to them.


Brilliant. And every pedestrian accident will be billed to the shoe manufacture. Then motorcycles and cars? Nah, suddenly ACC looks wonderful. :whistle:

[FJRider]

Well um no fucking shit!!!!!
Where does the Harold get these 'reporters' from???
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12207504

Ban Motorcycles and their associated death and injury rate will drop substantially in NZ statistics.

A cunning plan ... might even work ... :beer:

[F5 Dave]

Ok. It's the devils sister will take you to hell first.

[pritch]

The sky is falling! We are getting scooters here, a different brand, but still... I see people whinging about the photos accompanying the announcement of the launch because the riders were not wearing helmets. Somehow I don't recall ever seeing the streets full of people carrying helmets - just in case they came across a scooter.

[pete376403]

On the side of the street today. Someone went in hard...

[FJRider]

So . . .


No such thing as work safe?


What about Jesus?



Don't say he's make-believe or I'll set the devils Sister on you.

Was he following the then current health and safety guidelines as laid down by his employer ... was he wearing High-Vis and or or appropriate safety clothing prior to his crucifixion ... ???

It's just a pity ACC wasn't invented then.

[rastuscat]

On the side of the street today. Someone went in hard...

I saw one in Chur Chur yesterday with two Oompah Loompahs riding it. No wonder they break.

This just reinforces my view that there's no such thing as a dangerous vehicle. It's the stupid way people use the vehicle that is the problem.

As with motorcycles and cars et al.

[Voltaire]

As far as I'm aware if you ride a bicycle you are required to wear a helmet and your not supposed to ride them on the footpath.

If you ride a Lime scooter you tick a box to say your wearing a helmet and you are only allowed to ride them on the footpath.

Would be like hiring a car and ticking the box saying I put the seatbelt on.

Yet another overseas company taking advantage of NZ lax laws.:crazy:

[Voltaire]

I saw a news item on the TV the other night and looked it up.

E-SCOOTER RIDES AND CRASHES, AUCKLAND (OCT-FEB)
• 185,000 riders, nearly 1 million trips
• 23 operations for 21 e-scooter users (19 on Lime scooters)
• Public health costs of $360,557
• Lost income costs of $44,369
• Most common serious crash times were 8am-9am and after 6pm
• Most likely to crash were riders aged 20-29 and 50+
(The cost of electric-scooter related orthopaedic surgery, NZMJ, 30 August)

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12263245

Not heard any comments from JAG,probably as they are perceived as 'green".

I've noticed there is a high adoption rate for 50+....see we can embrace new technology...:drool:, and get to check out the new stuff at the hospital too.

How do they get on in other countries where there is more personal responsibility and less Govt 'free' care?

[rastuscat]

How do they get on in other countries where there is more personal responsibility and less Govt 'free' care?

Paris has banned e scooters.

[sidecar bob]

Mark my words, we are only a short time away from someone having a nasty accident possibly resulting in death on one of these machines, you only need to glance at one to work out why.
Some proper sized wheels would go a long way to making them safer.

I got the piss taken out of me for this post late last year.
Funny how things pan out.

[sidecar bob]

As with all vehicles, it's a question of how they are used.

My wife owns her own lekky scooter, uses it as a last mile solution for her work at Chch hospital. She free parks about 2.5 km away, and scoots to work through Hagley Park. She then works all day with people who are always bitching about no parking at the hospital, and the parking tickets they keep getting.

She has good quality shared paths to ride on, and uses her bell to interact with pedestrians. Basically, she doesn't ride like a dick.

I've ridden the CEOs lekky scooter around Rangiora a few times, and the smaller wheels aren't an issue. The back wheel is solid, the front wheel pneumatic, with basic suspension. I expect this is to deal with stones and minor bumps which might stop a solid front wheel.

It's no different to trucks, cars, buses etc. It's not the vehicle, it's how they are operated. Each vehicle has specific risks, most of which can be managed.
Here's one reply that quoted my post & went on to defend them.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've used them a bit (Lime scooters) including one crosstown trip from work to home when I got stranded at work and couldnt be fucked waiting for a bus. I think they work well enough but they go too fast to be safe in their configuration. The tiny wheels and short wheelbase make them quite twitchy. In my head I was redesigning them with a board about the size of a longboard (skateboard) with wheels that were say 200mm or a bit bigger. They also seem to be quite front heavy whereas if the weight CoG was closer to the middle it would feel better I reckon. I often see people riding them with their knees straight and they are way way better if you stand on it like a skateboard with your knees bent.

They meet a need I reckon and can be quite good fun. I felt very exposed on it without a helmet or gloves though.

[rustys]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/397940/emails-show-nzta-discussed-more-powerful-e-scooters

Imagine if we got this introduced, WTF......

[HenryDorsetCase]

The interesting thing for me is that I didnt realise that Lime scooters were 300 (or 500?)Watts. An e-bike (with bigger wheels, more visibility and better brakes is limited to 250W from memory

[neels]

I've used them a bit (Lime scooters) including one crosstown trip from work to home when I got stranded at work and couldnt be fucked waiting for a bus. I think they work well enough but they go too fast to be safe in their configuration. The tiny wheels and short wheelbase make them quite twitchy. In my head I was redesigning them with a board about the size of a longboard (skateboard) with wheels that were say 200mm or a bit bigger. They also seem to be quite front heavy whereas if the weight CoG was closer to the middle it would feel better I reckon. I often see people riding them with their knees straight and they are way way better if you stand on it like a skateboard with your knees bent.

They meet a need I reckon and can be quite good fun. I felt very exposed on it without a helmet or gloves though.

They're already on to it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/114999378/lime-set-to-roll-out-larger-electric-scooters

[jellywrestler]

I got the piss taken out of me for this post late last year.
Funny how things pan out.

and you must be 18 to use them so what happens also when you're 18, you're allowed in a pub.
go get a skinful first, then ride ride a scooter....

[sidecar bob]

and you must be 18 to use them so what happens also when you're 18, you're allowed in a pub.
go get a skinful first, then ride ride a scooter....

Or when you "hilarious" mate Peter Hickman turns your one off from his phone when youre going flat out & the front wheel almost locks up.:crazy:

[NighthawkNZ]

http://nighthawk.nz/index.php/news/14-auckland-surgeons-operating-on-more-e-scooter-injuries-than-motorbike-injuries-with-total-costs-passing-400k

E-SCOOTER RIDES AND CRASHES, AUCKLAND (OCT-FEB)
• 185,000 riders, nearly 1 million trips
• 23 operations for 21 e-scooter users (19 on Lime scooters)
• Public health costs of $360,557
• Lost income costs of $44,369
• Most common serious crash times were 8am-9am and after 6pm
• Most likely to crash were riders aged 20-29 and 50+

[SaferRides]

Apparently if they are left on private property, you can get a towie to come and pick it up. One company has a growing collection of Lime scooters because they won't pay the $200 fee.

Maybe that's a clue as to how much Lime pay for them.

[rastuscat]

Apparently if they are left on private property, you can get a towie to come and pick it up. One company has a growing collection of Lime scooters because they won't pay the $200 fee.

Maybe that's a clue as to how much Lime pay for them.

Collect 20 of them. Offer them back for $500. Job done.

[pritch]

Apparently if they are left on private property, you can get a towie to come and pick it up. One company has a growing collection of Lime scooters because they won't pay the $200 fee.



Interesting, but possibly apocryphal - and potentially expensive.

[george formby]

Whoda thunk it?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12289478

[jasonu]

Whoda thunk it?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12289478

Claiming safety issues yet apparently replacing Lime with another provider...

[george formby]

Claiming safety issues yet apparently replacing Lime with another provider...

:facepalm: Yup. Some baksheesh going around me thinks.

In other e-scooter news.....

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12289433

As long as some one is making pot loads of cash I guess.

[Voltaire]

Its an opportunity for the DHB to get with the times and have an app for A and E so they can allocate costs back to scooter providers who appear to be able to offer a service with all care and no responsibility.
Perhaps Scooter apps could be linked to ACC so you pay a 'levy' per ride.
Be less than the the price of an Avocado with a bit of toast per week.
No need for complicated registration plates and so on.

[rastuscat]

Perhaps Scooter apps could be linked to ACC so you pay a 'levy' per ride.


Sshhhhhhh. Ideas like that become policy.

[Voltaire]

Sshhhhhhh. Ideas like that become policy.

Like they have not thought about it 🙄
See AU had phone driver cam now.