Happy Ending

[rastuscat]

To all you nay sayers in regard to Police, ACC and Ride Forever. Try putting a cynical spin on this one.

True story.

Guy rides his litre sports bike in a cycle lane. Cops writes him a ticket, but with compliance. Guy attends a Ride Forever course, Police cancel the ticket.

Happy ending. The rider hadn't known it was illegal for him to ride in a cycle lane. That was one thing he learned from the experience. He was also surprised at what he learned on the course.

I love happy endings.

[Hawk]

easy, what was the cop doing in the cycle lane to be able to give him a ticket, you did put the challenge out there lol. but seriously those courses are good for increasing awareness and learning some new techniques.

[Scubbo]

must be easier to ticket a safer ride in a lane thats never used over someone on a cellphone weaving in and out of their lane on the motorway :bleh:

[rastuscat]

must be easier to ticket a safer ride in a lane thats never used over someone on a cellphone weaving in and out of their lane on the motorway :bleh:

Congratulations. You win the cynicism for beginners award.

[Viking01]

Congratulations. You win the cynicism for beginners award.

Just out of curiosity, would a similar course of action also be applied to
the motorist using a cellphone in the car on the motorway (i.e. cancel
the fine if attended a Defensive Driving course) ?

[Fresh Oats]

This might be a stupid question, but if it's illegal to ride in the cycle lane is it illegal to stop in the cycle green area at the front of traffic at traffic lights?

[Scubbo]

Congratulations. You win the cynicism for beginners award.

https://img.memecdn.com/Forever-Alone_o_98121.gif

[rambaldi]

This might be a stupid question, but if it's illegal to ride in the cycle lane is it illegal to stop in the cycle green area at the front of traffic at traffic lights?

Yes, we had this discussion a couple months ago, not sure which thread meandered there though.

[rastuscat]

This might be a stupid question, but if it's illegal to ride in the cycle lane is it illegal to stop in the cycle green area at the front of traffic at traffic lights?

Those areas are called advanced stop boxes.

And yes, it's illegal to stop a motor vehicle in them.

[Jeff Sichoe]

This might be a stupid question, but if it's illegal to ride in the cycle lane is it illegal to stop in the cycle green area at the front of traffic at traffic lights?

Short answer... no. Its perfectly legal to stop in any vehicle in the advanced stop box.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185607-Legally-pulling-up-on-spot-ahead-of-cycle-marking-at-junctions

[Scuba_Steve]

Those areas are called advanced stop boxes.

And yes, it's illegal to stop a motor vehicle in them.

:nono: How easily you forget...

The previous Road Policing Manager for Wellington (Snr. Sgt. Richard Hocken now retired) looked into this matter and decided that the Advanced Stop Boxes could not be enforced.

The Stop box is not a cycle lane so legislation preventing vehicles from entering a cycle lane do not apply.

The limit line or beginning of the intersection it at the front of the ASB so legislation around entering an intersection does not apply.

[rastuscat]

:nono: How easily you forget...

On a tangent, Richard is a personal friend. We just spent a week being motorcycle marshalls on the Cycle Tour of Southland. I managed to indulge both passions for a week.

[Laava]

On a tangent, Richard is a personal friend. We just spent a week being motorcycle marshalls on the Cycle Tour of Southland. I managed to indulge both passions for a week.
Soooo.....nepotism!
Do I win?

[Jeff Sichoe]

Also, even if the ASB's were deemed 'cycle lanes' then you are allowed to travel up to 50m if;

A motor vehicle driver may drive within a cycle lane if:

The purpose is to cross the cycle lane to make a turn, leave a road, enter a marked lane or line of traffic from the side of the road or another marked lane, or to park in a place clear of a special vehicle lane; or to enter a stopping place or loading zone to pick up or drop off passengers or a load; and
The driver drives in the lane for the minimum length necessary to complete the manoeuvre and for no more than a maximum length of 50m; and
The driver gives way to vehicles entitled to use the lane (ie cyclists).

which, could be argued, would be the result of moving through the intersection into the marked lane on the otherside of the traffic lights / intersection.

[FJRider]

Those areas are called advanced stop boxes.

And yes, it's illegal to stop a motor vehicle in them.

As an aside ... those advanced stop boxes are often staggered at many intersections. This is to allow (as you probably already know) heavy/long vehicles (like buses and trucks) to navigate easier through city centers. Those that park in those spots risk getting clobbered by said long vehicles ... or move out of their way. That is usually easier said than done for cars ...

Personally ... I'm quite happy to see cyclists first in the firing line for all vehicles taking the shortcut through intersections (but that's just me).

I guess everyone's favorite vehicle have their downside ... ;)

[FJRider]

Short answer... no. Its perfectly legal to stop in any vehicle in the advanced stop box.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185607-Legally-pulling-up-on-spot-ahead-of-cycle-marking-at-junctions

Nope ... the question in that thread was ... are you allowed to stop ahead of the cycle markings (the advanced stop box).

It is not legal to stop inside the advanced stop box ... unless you are happy to pay the possible (if caught by plod) $60 fine.

The choice is entirely yours ...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/63209837/drivers-face-fines-for-stopping-in-cyclist-zones

[FJRider]

To all you nay sayers in regard to Police, ACC and Ride Forever. Try putting a cynical spin on this one.

True story.

Guy rides his litre sports bike in a cycle lane. Cops writes him a ticket, but with compliance. Guy attends a Ride Forever course, Police cancel the ticket.

Happy ending. The rider hadn't known it was illegal for him to ride in a cycle lane. That was one thing he learned from the experience. He was also surprised at what he learned on the course.

I love happy endings.

A motorcyclist that didn't know ALL the road rules ... and was NOT an expert rider ... IMPOSSIBLE ... :devil2:

[Jeff Sichoe]

Sorry dude but your link has been superceded by more recent decisions.

The ASB is not a cycle lane and no enforcement is possible as there is no legislation determining its use.

Edit; which you would know if you read the other thread thoroughly

[Berries]

To all you nay sayers in regard to Police, ACC and Ride Forever. Try putting a cynical spin on this one.

True story.

Guy rides his litre sports bike in a cycle lane. Cops writes him a ticket, but with compliance. Guy attends a Ride Forever course, Police cancel the ticket.

Happy ending. The rider hadn't known it was illegal for him to ride in a cycle lane. That was one thing he learned from the experience. He was also surprised at what he learned on the course.
If I got stopped for riding in a cycle lane I would claim ignorance and if I got offered the choice between ticket/demerits and something that meant no ticket/demerits I don't think it would take me that long to make up my mind. I'd probably even commend the course afterwards if someone asked me so that the option of getting off a ticket didn't get taken away.

You can look at it both ways depending on your particular slant.

[Scubbo]

be better to run the red light ... no demerits!

[Fresh Oats]

The issue is, when lane splitting at the lights there's not much choice. It's safer to stop infront of the car at the front of the line than stopping in between two cars. (or at least stopping ahead of the cars)
From my experience people are twats (that applies to just general life advice as well and especially from working retail) and while most people are fine on the roads there are those that hate motorcycles and especially hate the idea of not being at the front at the lights. So if you're between them they will be perfectly happy to not let you in and take off at the speed of sound to guarantee you don't get ahead of them (because heaven forbid...). It's kinda hard to explain but I'm sure people that lane split at the lights know what I mean. So if you pull out and stop infront of them they have no choice but to wait for you to go before they can go.
And sure, you can always just not lane split, but fuck you I pay like $450 in rego fees is my answer to that.

[FJRider]

If I got stopped for riding in a cycle lane I would claim ignorance and if I got offered the choice between ticket/demerits and something that meant no ticket/demerits I don't think it would take me that long to make up my mind. I'd probably even commend the course afterwards if someone asked me so that the option of getting off a ticket didn't get taken away.

You can look at it both ways depending on your particular slant.

So what we have is ...

(a) A motorcyclist choosing which traffic regulation to ignore.

and

(b) Police Officers choosing which traffic regulations to enforce.

Sounds fair ... :scratch:

[Berries]

The issue is, when lane splitting at the lights there's not much choice. It's safer to stop infront of the car at the front of the line than stopping in between two cars. (or at least stopping ahead of the cars)
From my experience people are twats (that applies to just general life advice as well and especially from working retail) and while most people are fine on the roads there are those that hate motorcycles and especially hate the idea of not being at the front at the lights. So if you're between them they will be perfectly happy to not let you in and take off at the speed of sound to guarantee you don't get ahead of them (because heaven forbid...). It's kinda hard to explain but I'm sure people that lane split at the lights know what I mean. So if you pull out and stop infront of them they have no choice but to wait for you to go before they can go.
See, I think this would piss a car driver off.

I filter to the front of the queue most days but stop at the limit line between the two vehicles at the front. When the light goes green I can move in to either lane depending on how fast the cars pull away. I don't hold anyone up or get in the way of anyone. On a good day I might even get a little drag race with one of them which is always a bonus. If I was in a car and someone pulled up and placed themselves in front of me then I would be pissed because they have pretty much queue jumped and now I have to wait for them to move off before I can. I'd probably ease forward slowly to put some pressure on what I would consider to be an arrogant rider. I reckon personally that it is this kind of behaviour that increases the antagonism and results in those people hating motorbikes.

Buy hey, I ride and think most people on bikes are twats anyway.

[Scuba_Steve]

See, I think this would piss a car driver off.

I filter to the front of the queue most days but stop at the limit line between the two vehicles at the front. When the light goes green I can move in to either lane depending on how fast the cars pull away. I don't hold anyone up or get in the way of anyone. On a good day I might even get a little drag race with one of them which is always a bonus. If I was in a car and someone pulled up and placed themselves in front of me then I would be pissed because they have pretty much queue jumped and now I have to wait for them to move off before I can. I'd probably ease forward slowly to put some pressure on what I would consider to be an arrogant rider. I reckon personally that it is this kind of behaviour that increases the antagonism and results in those people hating motorbikes.

Buy hey, I ride and think most people on bikes are twats anyway.

It should only piss off the self righteous, for the most part a motorbike will be across the intersection before a car has left the line so we're not holding anyone up (cept those twats that go 80km) and we're not line jumping cause we're not in line to begin. So what's there to be pissed about

[rastuscat]

The issue is, when lane splitting at the lights there's not much choice. It's safer to stop infront of the car at the front of the line than stopping in between two cars. .

And therein lies the biggest dilemma in road rule enforcement. Sometimes its safer to break the rules.

Waimakariri Council recently built a separated cycle way alongside the road between Kaiapoi and Rangiora, adjacent to Lineside Road

https://www.waimakariri.govt.nz/leisure-and-recreation/activities/outdoor-activities/walking-and-cycling/cycling-in-waimakariri

Yesterday I saw a bloke riding his moped along that path. This isn't legal. But Lineside Road is a 100 kmh road, with fairly steady traffic flows, which get heavier during morning and afternoon commute periods. I'm fairly sure that if a cop stopped and spoke to the moped rider about staying off the path, he would just raise the fact that it's not safe to ride on Lineside Road. Which is true, for a vehicle that can't go much faster than 50 kmh.

The situation is that a guy has bought a vehicle inappropriate to the situation he is in, and he chooses to break that rule in order to solve it. There is no 50 kmh road between Rangiora and Kaiapoi. A moped is not a suitable vehicle between Rangiora and Kaiapoi.

Of note, when the path was being built the same old arguments were dredged up by the nay sayers. "Nobody ever cycles, it won't get used" blah blah blah. In reality, since it opened, it's become a recreational space for walkers, runners, cyclists, dog walkers etc. It's a shared space, just not for motor vehicles.

[rastuscat]

It should only piss off the self righteous, for the most part a motorbike will be across the intersection before a car has left the line so we're not holding anyone up (cept those twats that go 80km) and we're not line jumping cause we're not in line to begin. So what's there to be pissed about

When it's hosing down with rain, car drivers get to turn their heater and wipers on. That's their advantage. I don't get bitter about that.

Why should car drivers get bitter about my advantage, being able to use space better, which I can do without adversely effecting them.

[Fresh Oats]

See, I think this would piss a car driver off.

I filter to the front of the queue most days but stop at the limit line between the two vehicles at the front. When the light goes green I can move in to either lane depending on how fast the cars pull away. I don't hold anyone up or get in the way of anyone. On a good day I might even get a little drag race with one of them which is always a bonus. If I was in a car and someone pulled up and placed themselves in front of me then I would be pissed because they have pretty much queue jumped and now I have to wait for them to move off before I can. I'd probably ease forward slowly to put some pressure on what I would consider to be an arrogant rider. I reckon personally that it is this kind of behaviour that increases the antagonism and results in those people hating motorbikes.

Buy hey, I ride and think most people on bikes are twats anyway.

I see your point. But I'm saying that even sitting between the cars causes animosity so you're better off just going in front of them to avoid any danger.
And yes, most of the times you can just pull away and pick a lane, but you've achieved the exact same thing than if you just park in front of a car at the lights anyway except it seems to me that you've done it in a more risky way.

There's always going to be animosity between cars and bikes and cyclists and buses and trucks and blah blah. There's always, always going to be animosity. So you're better off looking out for number one because if you crash you're on a tiny engine on two wheels and nothing else, you're not gonna win that fight. So I would much rather piss someone off (even though, as mentioned, I'm through the lights before they even realize the lights green) than risk get stuck between 2 egotistic twats, because I've been there and it's not fun.

If that makes me a twat rider, meh, at least I'm an alive twat rider.

[Moi]

I see your point. But I'm saying that even sitting between the cars causes animosity so you're better off just going in front of them to avoid any danger.
And yes, most of the times you can just pull away and pick a lane, but you've achieved the exact same thing than if you just park in front of a car at the lights anyway except it seems to me that you've done it in a more risky way.

There's always going to be animosity between cars and bikes and cyclists and buses and trucks and blah blah. There's always, always going to be animosity. So you're better off looking out for number one because if you crash you're on a tiny engine on two wheels and nothing else, you're not gonna win that fight. So I would much rather piss someone off (even though, as mentioned, I'm through the lights before they even realize the lights green) than risk get stuck between 2 egotistic twats, because I've been there and it's not fun.

If that makes me a twat rider, meh, at least I'm an alive twat rider.

A couple of observations:
* drivers who suffer from animosity often also suffer from SDS (small dick syndrome)... :bleh:

seriously now, if you're in front of the vehicle you are likely to have crossed the limit line and, legally, entered the intersection against a red light and, likely, to have entered the pedestrian crossing area... then you just annoy a few pedestrians...

plus, if you're off from the green "like a rocket" are you looking out for Shane in his ute running a red?

So if you sit between but to the front, you can always let them go first and follow along behind rather than entering into a competition for road space...

As I say, just a few observations...

[russd7]

there is also the option of stopping by the passenger doe with the pretense that from there you can see any traffic coming but with the added bonus of being able to sit there and ogle the babe sitting in the passenger seat and piss her significant other off :yes:

[Grumph]

The issue is, when lane splitting at the lights there's not much choice. It's safer to stop infront of the car at the front of the line than stopping in between two cars. (or at least stopping ahead of the cars)
From my experience people are twats (that applies to just general life advice as well and especially from working retail) and while most people are fine on the roads there are those that hate motorcycles and especially hate the idea of not being at the front at the lights. So if you're between them they will be perfectly happy to not let you in and take off at the speed of sound to guarantee you don't get ahead of them (because heaven forbid...). It's kinda hard to explain but I'm sure people that lane split at the lights know what I mean. So if you pull out and stop infront of them they have no choice but to wait for you to go before they can go.
And sure, you can always just not lane split, but fuck you I pay like $450 in rego fees is my answer to that.

Personally, I would never filter through and stop in front of a lane. If I happen to be at the front from stopping in a line of traffic, fair enough, those behind have seen me. Fitering to the front means you may not have been seen - and if you have, it may have caused resentment.

As someone who has lost a bike through a truckie being more interested in his list of stops than what was in front of him....Yes, he drove over the bike.....
I'm not keen on giving anyone the chance of a free hit at me.

[eldog]

I would agree with Grump
Not the mention what happens if you have the L target on your bike.

Fair game it seems from everybody.:argue:

It's your call.

Got to laugh when the loud road user stalls it at the lights, be it bike, car or whatever.

[actungbaby]

Those areas are called advanced stop boxes.

And yes, it's illegal to stop a motor vehicle in them.I do sometimes it is empty whats the issue?

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