Building a Racer Rep for the Road [Archive]

TCN

14th December 2018, 14:36

Hi all,

Currently in the process of gathering old parts for a 1996 GSXR 750, and the plan is to build up a endurance racer rep, and hopefully make it just road legal.

I've been scouring the pages and calling the certers to try and get an idea of what might be involved, but some of it seems a bit grey, or at least you can't get a straight up answer.

As it would sit, pretty much the only standard piece will be the main frame. Everything else will be done with modified or old racing parts. Showa race suspension, brembo calipers, mag triple clamps, alu endurance tank, race swingarm and subframe, built up engine with dry clutch, etc etc.

Is this going down a path that won't actually be road certable? I'm seeing reference that if you want to cert and register the bike then it must have original marked indicators and lights. mirrors, etc. Is it then just a matter of taking those off for aftermarket items later on?

Or is this just a matter of using a good OEM road frame, bolting it up and then going to a certer for all of the applicable mods to be listed and noted?

TCN

14th December 2018, 16:30

As an addition, if I import a good OEM and legal frame from overseas, it seems like what I'm reading suggests that the built up bike will be inspected for OEM everything. So does this mean that the bike HAS to be totally OEM, and then as soon as I get that docket signed off, I can then rip it apart, fill it with modified parts the same day and then get a cert?

If that is the case, it seems a little bit redundant. It's hard to find out the concrete details for bikes, I guess so many modded bikes fly under the radar. WOF guys seem to barely pick up a heavily modded bike.

layton

14th December 2018, 18:12

TCN

14th December 2018, 19:08

i would get something legal then rip it apart.. as long as it looks semi stock, not barbed wire an shit sticking out everywhere with a mini cannon you should be okay. but i am sure somebody more clued up then me will pop in shortly.

Yeah, this will be anything but that, it's going to be WSBK and SERT parts.

Yeah it's hard to find a legit piece of writing that would confirm everything there. If that's what has to happen (buy a complete bike to strip down), then I guess it happens that way. Such a weird way to reach the same end result though, not to mention they don't seem super common now.
Heaps of legitimate road legal frames overseas though.

layton

14th December 2018, 19:42

Yeah, this will be anything but that, it's going to be WSBK and SERT parts.

Yeah it's hard to find a legit piece of writing that would confirm everything there. If that's what has to happen (buy a complete bike to strip down), then I guess it happens that way. Such a weird way to reach the same end result though, not to mention they don't seem super common now.
Heaps of legitimate road legal frames overseas though.

alright, so from what i understand... you can get a road legal bike and mod it to hell and gone and get a cert at the end by a motorcycle certification person. take loads of pictures, DONT modify an alloy frame you will have to prove all the parts that you bolt on ARE in good working condition, and most importantly keep in contact with the guy who will be doing the cert as you can ask questions along the way.

if you get a frame from overseas, good luck. you will have to jump though so many loop holes you may aswell just buy a replica.

You could get a dereg bike from here but make sure it HAS been registered at some stage in its life in NZ, you will have to prove you own it.

IF you go down the dereg bike route you can do all the mods then get it certified then take it for the rego process. no OEM parts needed because it has been signed off as "road" worthy already....? well thats the way i understand it, and this is how i am going about my turbo gs project.

TCN

14th December 2018, 20:27

alright, so from what i understand... you can get a road legal bike and mod it to hell and gone and get a cert at the end by a motorcycle certification person. take loads of pictures, DONT modify an alloy frame you will have to prove all the parts that you bolt on ARE in good working condition, and most importantly keep in contact with the guy who will be doing the cert as you can ask questions along the way.

if you get a frame from overseas, good luck. you will have to jump though so many loop holes you may aswell just buy a replica.

You could get a dereg bike from here but make sure it HAS been registered at some stage in its life in NZ, you will have to prove you own it.

IF you go down the dereg bike route you can do all the mods then get it certified then take it for the rego process. no OEM parts needed because it has been signed off as "road" worthy already....? well thats the way i understand it, and this is how i am going about my turbo gs project.

Good God, what a silly setup we have for this, haha.
Well if that is the case, and it sure seems like you're running through the same process currently, anyone want 90% of a 1996-1999 gsxr 750? :laugh:

layton

14th December 2018, 22:28

Good God, what a silly setup we have for this, haha.
Well if that is the case, and it sure seems like you're running through the same process currently, anyone want 90% of a 1996-1999 gsxr 750? :laugh:

Before you go selling stuff, what do you have?... It might pay to call VTNZ they will answer all ur questions. What part of the south are you in?

TCN

15th December 2018, 06:27

Before you go selling stuff, what do you have?... It might pay to call VTNZ they will answer all ur questions. What part of the south are you in?

Nah, I meant I'd be selling off stuff from the donor bike, I ain't selling my race parts hah.

I contacted VTNZ technical, when I was looking at bringing a works race frame into the country (no numbers or anything). I explained the plan and they said "yeah, it's possible to create a vin for the frame when it comes in, we just have to inspect it that it's an oem frame.", which they are.
But he then said talk to a cert guy, which I did but all he could talk about was the mods, which would all be legal bar from the main frame. He then referred me back to an entry cert person, which is where I'm at now

So far I haven't yet found the golden egg goose who can tell me the exact process to follow officially, and most of what I find is through the forums here.
VTNZ seemed to say that making a race frame legal, no problem type thing. Others say even importing a road legal frame from overseas, damn hard.

layton

15th December 2018, 08:27

Nah, I meant I'd be selling off stuff from the donor bike, I ain't selling my race parts hah.

I contacted VTNZ technical, when I was looking at bringing a works race frame into the country (no numbers or anything). I explained the plan and they said "yeah, it's possible to create a vin for the frame when it comes in, we just have to inspect it that it's an oem frame.", which they are.
But he then said talk to a cert guy, which I did but all he could talk about was the mods, which would all be legal bar from the main frame. He then referred me back to an entry cert person, which is where I'm at now

So far I haven't yet found the golden egg goose who can tell me the exact process to follow officially, and most of what I find is through the forums here.
VTNZ seemed to say that making a race frame legal, no problem type thing. Others say even importing a road legal frame from overseas, damn hard.

I asked years ago about geting a crf450 road legal, they said yes, its possible. But no it wont happen. Lol because it was never intended to be used on the road, I would have to get Honda via email to say it would be OK for road use, or modify the bike over 50% so its a custom.. I think that's what he said anyway.

I say buy a road going bike and strip it.. Less hassle?

TCN

15th December 2018, 09:13

I asked years ago about geting a crf450 road legal, they said yes, its possible. But no it wont happen. Lol because it was never intended to be used on the road, I would have to get Honda via email to say it would be OK for road use, or modify the bike over 50% so its a custom.. I think that's what he said anyway.

I say buy a road going bike and strip it.. Less hassle?

When you say modify a bike so it's over 50% custom, is that something to do with the "advanced and scratch built" certing?

Because this should end up barely original when the build is done. It's not really a joke when I say the frame and the engine cases will be the only oem items, maybe the headlight too.

Picture the bike below, but with lights, mirrors, etc

https://i.imgur.com/gmVT3AO.jpg

layton

15th December 2018, 09:44

When you say modify a bike so it's over 50% custom, is that something to do with the "advanced and scratch built" certing?

Because this should end up barely original when the build is done. It's not really a joke when I say the frame and the engine cases will be the only oem items, maybe the headlight too.

Picture the bike below, but with lights, mirrors, etc

https://i.imgur.com/gmVT3AO.jpg

I guess so, yes.. "scratch built"? but im unsure how much has to be modified. as in frame ect.. never looked into it.

Now, you have to remember that to an outsider like a WOF guy, unless he knows his suzukis real well.. he will probably just think its a fancy body kit with a nice paint job. it doesn't look like an abomination. it just depends how you want to go about it, if you want a total legit bike that will be properly insured or something that is still a gsxr750 on paper but highly modified. if you dont do it properly you may have insurance issues because they ask if there are any items worth over $$$ amount.

when i say something that doesnt look STD i mean like my build, it clearly isnt stock.
https://i.ibb.co/jvMqz9G/WP-20181119-18-09-27-Pro.jpg (https://ibb.co/VWSbx0D)

TCN

15th December 2018, 13:25

I guess so, yes.. "scratch built"? but im unsure how much has to be modified. as in frame ect.. never looked into it.

Now, you have to remember that to an outsider like a WOF guy, unless he knows his suzukis real well.. he will probably just think its a fancy body kit with a nice paint job. it doesn't look like an abomination. it just depends how you want to go about it, if you want a total legit bike that will be properly insured or something that is still a gsxr750 on paper but highly modified. if you dont do it properly you may have insurance issues because they ask if there are any items worth over $$$ amount.

when i say something that doesnt look STD i mean like my build, it clearly isnt stock.
https://i.ibb.co/jvMqz9G/WP-20181119-18-09-27-Pro.jpg (https://ibb.co/VWSbx0D)

Scratch built definitely means making your own frame or anything like that, or I guess creating something that hasn't existed as a road legal thing before.
The "advanced" part, again really hard to find details

I won't be skirting the rules for this though, and it'll be pretty obvious for any semi competent inspector. Dual filler on the tank, digital dash, dry clutch, carbon bodywork.

Well, pending on any other replies from the authorities and any more clarification of the processes, I guess that has to be the way, buy a bike to strip right down. :bash:

F5 Dave

15th December 2018, 15:48

Hmm. Considered roading a TZ250 when they were cheap for a hill road bike. Dumb idea.

I did my YZF750SP, but under the radar. Race bodywork tiny FXR lights, suspension mods, (R1 brakes, weren't kosher hard to tell not std). Ally subframe any stuff that's hidden, no drama.

My RG/RGV, braced frame, RGV swingarm, wheels, forks, bodywork, then with 100hp RZ350, 500cc kit. Well that was another story. Got it LVVd but took a couple of goes. Clearly road legal indicators and head and tail lights smooth the way.

98tls

15th December 2018, 17:23

If that is the case, it seems a little bit redundant. It's hard to find out the concrete details for bikes, I guess so many modded bikes fly under the radar. WOF guys seem to barely pick up a heavily modded bike.

Fwiw yea correct,over many years did much to my old TL1000 ie GSXR front end blah blah didnt cert anything and never failed a wof yet.

TCN

15th December 2018, 18:38

Fwiw yea correct,over many years did much to my old TL1000 ie GSXR front end blah blah didnt cert anything and never failed a wof yet.

Yeah I realise that, probably adding a steering damper is in some ways a certable mod, steering related <_<

I mean, my current bike has mods that aren't certed, and it breezes every wof. Though the inspector did eyeball the brake setup and brembo MC last time, so he's probably quite aware.
But I won't be doing that with this build, it's far too obvious, and it's also too valuable to do the dodgy with insurance and run risks like that.

Regardless, the thing I need to find more info on is not modding or the parts I'll be using (that's all pretty straightforward), it's what the processes are about bringing a frame into the country.

TCN

15th December 2018, 18:50

layton

15th December 2018, 20:06

But hang on, this talk of having to have a fully oem vehicle to get entry cert coming from overseas has to be BS

My car came into the country on big aftermarket wheels, big brake caliper and rotor setup aftermarket, coilovers, arms and roll bars aftermarket, engine mods, radiator, shit the bloody thing didn't even have cats
But it came in, got a cert done and is proper legal

So then surely I can get the frame, work with a certer on the build up so that he's happy, and then go for the actual road registering from there.
I must be so shit at Google that I can't find this on their websites

But the car was complete with lights an all, with an ownership record. Blah blah blah

Why do you want a frame from overseas anyways? They will be cheap from a wrecker .. Find a high km bike from a wrecker and take the frame and have at it? I don't get why you want an overseas frame? It just compliments the situation

TCN

15th December 2018, 20:31

But the car was complete with lights an all, with an ownership record. Blah blah blah

Why do you want a frame from overseas anyways? They will be cheap from a wrecker .. Find a high km bike from a wrecker and take the frame and have at it? I don't get why you want an overseas frame? It just compliments the situation

Yeah that's a good point, and maybe pre border has something to do with it. Again, you still have the same result though.

They don't seem to be super common now, seems that way at least. I will be having a ring around come Monday though, along with the VTNZ technical types.
With an overseas frame, a guy I know has oodles, lots of low km bikes, and non crashed ones too. Dirt cheap, and dirt cheap shipping too, with all their documents.
There was also a possibility of bringing in a proper works team frame, which is where my initial discussions started with the import cert people. So that would have to come from overseas

onearmedbandit

16th December 2018, 19:13

You could try Wayne Martin at Delray Automotive, 81 Kingsley St, ChCh. I'd suggest calling in to see him, he no longer does certs but was instrumental in writing a lot of the rules governing them.

TCN

17th December 2018, 18:59

Had a bit of light shed on the whole thing today.

Importing a non numbered blank race frame, it is possible, and it involves a couple of special exemptions regarding the frame having no numbers. Was told this is rather rare but has happened for rare and valuable builds. The hardest route to go down.

Importing an oem frame with history and documents, possible. From what I recall, bikes post 2002 have some kind of "build standards" to be met. This is where the OEM parts come into it. So you are required to have all the parts that the original manufacturer has certified and approved. And that is where I wouldn't be able to chuck on all my race parts on as its entry cert, non oem, etc.

Being that my build is 1996 to 1999, no build standards required. Just it being legal obviously.
In this case, OEM frame untouched will be on a modified LVV cert.
Procedure was told to me as import the frame, I go and build the bike, I then present it for entry certification, if all is well it goes into the system as "Suzuki modified, or replica" something like that.
Whether it then goes for LVV or not, I'm a bit unsure, but the hurdle is the entry stuff first. Because it would have "entered" the country in that state, it might not require a further cert, unless something is modified later on

And having documents with the frame would make it a ton easier for sure

Still, not as easy as modding a bike already here, so provided I can find a good frame or donor bike, I'll go with that first

sidecar bob

17th December 2018, 19:13

This guy knows how to get scratch built stuff on the road.
Well worth a chat.
https://www.houseofcustom.co.nz/shop.html

AllanB

17th December 2018, 22:30

A couple weeks back I was reading a motorcycle article on a turbo subaru motorcycle built up in NZ. Fully complies and all that.

Can't be that difficult if you follow process.

Here ya go

http://www.thedrive.com/motorcycles/15128/the-madboxer-is-a-subaru-wrx-powered-motorcycle-and-we-love-it

F5 Dave

19th December 2018, 17:24

Well this might have some parts

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/wrecking-bikes/listing-1872226540.htm?rsqid=d304cfed60134871982a64dd46211 899

tigertim20

19th December 2018, 20:09

If you do actually go ahead with this, be sure to start a build thread for us.

this place is severely lacking in interesting build threads:mad:

AllanB

19th December 2018, 20:20

this place is severely lacking in interesting build threads:mad:

We are all too scared that if we build then sell on Trademe we will end up in the Optimistic Sellers thread :(

Drew

21st December 2018, 16:43

Do not start a build before you know the exact process involved.

You can register a 'from scratch' 'one off' build entirely of your own design in Mew Zealand. The first move is paperwork, not buying tube though.

TCN

21st December 2018, 20:51

Well this might have some parts

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/wrecking-bikes/listing-1872226540.htm?rsqid=d304cfed60134871982a64dd46211 899

I had looked at that but apparently the frame is twisted at the headstock.
I did find a 600 srad on a wreckers page, but again the front looks severely tucked. Front tyre was almost touching the bottom of the fairing.
So it's slim pickings currently

If you do actually go ahead with this, be sure to start a build thread for us.

this place is severely lacking in interesting build threads:mad:

Yes I will post something up. It will still go ahead even if it has to be a track bike only. But I'll try avoid that for now. Especially now that tracks seemed to have tightened up on their open days (can't just rock up with whatever)

Do not start a build before you know the exact process involved.

You can register a 'from scratch' 'one off' build entirely of your own design in Mew Zealand. The first move is paperwork, not buying tube though.

Yes that's what I have been trying to nail down, the process involved. Come the new year I will get back into it

The main thing is that it won't be scratch built, the frame is an oem item and stock. But everything else will be modified and race parts.

And the process is clear if I buy a frame or bike in NZ. Its a matter of getting the lvv cert, and not much else other than working with the certer

Where I have been struggling to get the process is if I went down the road of bringing just a frame into the country to build up, as it may be hard to find one here
From the way it was explained to me last, a 1996 bike has no build specification to follow for the entry cert, so it just has to meet legal requirements. It does not have to be presented in an oem state to receive the entry cert, only post 2002 bikes do, something to that effect

It seems to be bring the frame in, build the bike up, go start the entry cert process so it's details are in our systems, then go get the lvv cert done, the finish the entry cert

OR

when it gets its entry cert, it gets inspected there and entered into the database as "1996 Suzuki Modified" or something. It was hard to follow the guy on the phone

sidecar bob

22nd December 2018, 12:47

There is a process for building a machine from new & used parts.
It seems to be the easiest route to take.

motogpwerks Chris

24th January 2019, 03:54

The Frame is the easy part ,the parts you mentioned the XRO parts and Kit parts are near impossible to find .Yoshimura Mladins bike were close to $800,000 to build 20yrs ago .Might be easier to buy a former race bike or make a good running Srad with current parts like ohlins (instead off factory showa's) non kit wheels , harris swingarm can be brought new for $6000 instead off a $20,000 kit one .
Money is the easy part, the amount off time it talkes to collect all the correct parts takes years .
I have gsxr750 2-3 kit bikes and 3-4 replica bikes .